ooman: Here is a video on the silliness of religion especially xtianity and islam. Watch, learn and stay firm in your atheism


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QecUUnLNSiY

Lol. What a classic case of misrepresentation. A dizzying rash of strawmen to discredit the Christian worldview. The terms are all there, the meanings are all out of whack. But it's ok. Even if all that was true, what court would you propose to arraign God before, mm? Is it your world, my man? Did you build it? Did you make it? Regardless, that video was such a false comprehension of all that Christ is about.

ooman:

IT IS GOD WHO CLAIM TO LOVE US, DIE FOR US ETC.

IT IS HIS TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE UNDERSTAND HIM. IT IS HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO SHOW HIMSELF TO US IN THE WAY WE WOULD UNDERSTAND.

IT IS ALL HIS RESPONBILITY NEVER OURS.

What nonsense. Now you want God to think for you? After accusing Him of trying to prevent you from using your intellect. You're confused

musKeeto:
Bro, the Bible claims to be God's word. No one needs you to reveal the character and nature of God. You're fake and dubious, whether you care about my opinion is none of my business.

The OP is not about someone who is bothered about what an atheist said about God. He's bothered about what the Bible claims God sanctioned.

So deal with it or wait for the owner of that a55 you love licking to show up and entertain us the original anonymatics.

Lol. So now it's that easy to get a rise out of you, is it. My man, I did tell you: antiChristianity is real and you're on that side of things.

Anyway, that Bible which claims to be God's Word also claims that you need us to reveal the character and nature of God. You may be bitter and abusive, whether you believe it or not is your trouble.

And why should I be bothered about what the op is bothered about?

Ihedinobi:

And would you recognize His nose if He did? How would you tell that it isn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster's nose or some Christian who built a spacecraft in the shape of a nose to fool you?

I sense another deconversion very soon.

Uyi Iredia: @ Ihedinobi: God understanding Himself doesn't answer the questions raised by my statements. Infact it roundtrips the question. BTW I asked Him and got no reply.

I asked him and got a reply,others asked him too and got a reply. May be there is something missing in your asking- Humility and faith i guess.
your personal encounter and experience with God is far much better and more mind settling than what anybody can tell you. I still refer you to him. God is not far from us at all, it is your faith that determines his distance from you. Little wonder Jesus usually told anybody that he wanted to heal in the bible - be it unto you ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH. If you believe God is far from you he becomes far and if you believe his as close to you as your dad sitting beside and eager to discuss with you then he ll be. Dont forget to apply humility too in your interactions with him while praying. Also listen as he ministers to you through your heart. I dont mean five minutes prayer, just be ready to hold on to him for as long as you get your answers from him. Thanks.

Alfamann:

I sense another deconversion very soon.

You do?

alexleo:

I asked him and got a reply,others asked him too and got a reply. May be there is something missing in your asking- Humility and faith i guess.

Yep. I agree.

alexleo:

I asked him and got a reply,others asked him too and got a reply. May be there is something missing in your asking- Humility and faith i guess.

It is his fault if god is hiding. Playing on guilt.

Ihedinobi:

You do?

Yes, that's how it starts. You just acknowledged the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. So now it's that easy to get a rise out of you, is it...

Get a rise out of me? Lol, now I'm forced to wonder what you and anony have been up to... This ass-licking business.. Hmmmm..

Ihedinobi:

Lol. What a classic case of misrepresentation. A dizzying rash of strawmen to discredit the Christian worldview. The terms are all there, the meanings are all out of whack. But it's ok. Even if all that was true, what court would you propose to arraign God before, mm? Is it your world, my man? Did you build it? Did you make it? Regardless, that video was such a false comprehension of all that Christ is about.

What nonsense. Now you want God to think for you? After accusing Him of trying to prevent you from using your intellect. You're confused

Its all BLA BLA BLA in an attempt to deny reality. Its so illogical I couldn't make any seense of out this dump reply of yours.

musKeeto:
Get a rise out of me? Lol, now I'm forced to wonder what you and anony have been up to... This ass-licking business.. Hmmmm..

Ol boy beware o! He has already started telling you how he has a "fondness" for you.

Ihedinobi:

You know, there's a lot you people don't give Christians credit for, musKeeto. There's a reason I had a greater fondness for you than for any other unbeliever I've dealt with here, although I'm pretty sure you're unaware of it. It's why I tend to never challenge you, at least, not until recently. I actually am a very empathetic person, entering into someone else's experiences and feelings is relatively easy. And I knew somehow that when you were insisting that you aren't antiChristian, it was more because you didn't want to be than that you really were not. I think though that your sympathy for Christ has been plummeting. I think it's a good sign because, well, look at your comment up there.

There are really only two sides to this affair: Christ's and antiChrist's (and I don't only mean some guy who is going to try to exterminate Christians someday in the future). Either Christ is true and worthy to be believed or He is not. No middle ground, my friend. If you were more confused from listening to Mere Christianity, then Christ still has a case to plead but you cannot hear it if you don't want to hear it, it's that simple. And if you don't want to hear it, all you do is say, "to hell with this confusion, if Christ were right...(inset any excuse you please here)" and then mock every attempt you perceive that tries to raise the matter up again in your heart.

The best any Christian can do for any unbeliever is answer their questions and misgivings if they are allowed to, knowing the Lord and seeing the Truth for oneself is entirely up to the unbeliever and is only possible with the act of Faith, a daring casting of oneself upon Christ. There is no other way. No man will ever find God in his mind, God is always other than man.

@Muskeeto:

Imagine I had a large poultry farm and I'm developing a special breed of layers in a section. So promising that the yield from those few premium layers far surpasses that of the rest of the lot in thousands.

Now, an enemy of progress introduces a deadly virus strain into my poultry farm and the contamination is rapid, they are dying off in all directions. What is my best bet?

Quarantine. That's my best bet. Quarantine of the promising breed. My priority is to increase profit, so my preoccupation would be to stop the spread. Even at the painful loss of thousands, I will keep few.

In similar regard it is my understanding and belief that from the days of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, God quarantined Israel from all sorts of pollution to ensure that Jesus, the special breed, can be born out of it. He did WHATEVER it took to ensure that by saving THAT chance of Jesus being born, he can save everyone else from ruin. He made the promise since the beginning, and the enemy knew this special breed: Jesus, will bring his doom so he did ALL he could to spiritually contaminate Israel, to politically extinguish them, etc. God had to quarantine them by all means, even if it meant destroying some of them or crushing their enemies.

And finally Jesus was born. There was no longer any need for the quarantine.

It is my belief that this is the reason why the OT God seems different from the NT God in the Bible. His work of quarantine was done. Now, over to Jesus to influence the world and bring back the profits.

InesQor:
I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that you are expecting any rebuttal or other convincing ripostes. Because if I were in your shoes, I'd check out posted links as well.

I've checked the links. And find them unsatisfactory. What I need is a simple rebut to the points raised not some philosophical rigmarole.

InesQor: This problem is dealt with in Existentialism and inasmuch as the two most respected philosophers in that field are Søren Kierkegaard (Christian, father of Existentialism) and Friedrich Nietzsche (Atheist), I found my own answers in Christian Existentialism (Kierkegaard's flavour). Which is why I posted the link, as you say you're Christian.

And as I said earlier I find it unsatisfactory.

InesQor: The summary view is that philosophical thinking begins with the active, feeling, living, thinking human individual. This means YOU are the main subject in your perceived universe, and it all begins with you. Thus, your perceptions of God's good or not will depend on this existential study of the subject: YOU.

True. But this doesn't rebut the points I made in the OP.

InesQor: Meanwhile, as requested I'll check my archives for some apologetics materials, maybe I can send you some PDFs or something.

Good.

Ihedinobi:

And would you recognize His nose if He did? How would you tell that it isn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster's nose or some Christian who built a spacecraft in the shape of a nose to fool you?

Bros i still suggest you disengage from arguing with this useless people here. We are here to interact with Uyi. Pls face Uyi alone.

InesQor: @Muskeeto:

Imagine I had a large poultry farm and I'm developing a special breed of layers in a section. So promising that the yield from those few premium layers far surpasses that of the rest of the lot in thousands.

Now, an enemy of progress introduces a deadly virus strain into my poultry farm and the contamination is rapid, they are dying off in all directions. What is my best bet?

Quarantine. That's my best bet. Quarantine of the promising breed. My priority is to increase profit, so my preoccupation would be to stop the spread. Even at the painful loss of thousands, I will keep few.

In similar regard it is my understanding and belief that from the days of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, God quarantined Israel from all sorts of pollution to ensure that Jesus, the special breed, can be born out of it. He did WHATEVER it took to ensure that by saving THAT chance of Jesus being born, he can save everyone else from ruin. He made the promise since the beginning, and the enemy knew this special breed: Jesus, will bring his doom so he did ALL he could to spiritually contaminate Israel, to politically extinguish them, etc. God had to quarantine them by all means, even if it meant destroying some of them or crushing their enemies.

And finally Jesus was born. There was no longer any need for the quarantine.

It is my belief that this is the reason why the OT God seems different from the NT God in the Bible. His work of quarantine was done. Now, over to Jesus to influence the world and bring back the profits.

First of all, quarantine from what? Contamination of other races? Is he a racist as well? Where is his omnipotence if all he can do is kill, kill, kill? How can an omnipotent one allow a virus to come in the first place?

How can a grown man spit out nonsense like this? Can you print what you just wrote, go and stand in front of a mirror and read it loud and have a serious look at yourself.

alexleo:

Bros i still suggest you disengage from arguing with this useless people here. We are here to interact with Uyi. Pls face Uyi alone.

Fear of another pending deconversion.

alexleo:
I asked him and got a reply,others asked him too and got a reply. May be there is something missing in your asking- Humility and faith i guess.
your personal encounter and experience with God is far much better and more mind settling than what anybody can tell you. I still refer you to him. God is not far from us at all, it is your faith that determines his distance from you. Little wonder Jesus usually told anybody that he wanted to heal in the bible - be it unto you ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH. If you believe God is far from you he becomes far and if you believe his as close to you as your dad sitting beside and eager to discuss with you then he ll be. Dont forget to apply humility too in your interactions with him while praying. Also listen as he ministers to you through your heart. I dont mean five minutes prayer, just be ready to hold on to him for as long as you get your answers from him. Thanks.

I did ask in humility and faith. And there was no reply. I don't mean some reply through a voice in your head which is you. I needed a clear reply like the ones seen in the \bible. God's reply to Elijah's request for fire, God calling out to Moses from the burning bush. A clear unmistakable voice of God. I didn't get that. And yet you have the balls to put the blame on my so-called lack of faith. I'm still waiting for replies to THE POINTS I RAISED - the ones in the OP. So far, I'm not impressed with your response, or the others.

Uyi Iredia:

I've checked the links. And find them unsatisfactory. What I need is a simple rebut to the points raised not some philosophical rigmarole.

The question is philosophical so unfortunately I doubt you'll ever find a one-sentence simple rebut. You'll have to think it through yourself, via "philosophical rigmarole" (which is rather a tautology. All philosophy is, apparently, a rigmarole).

Uyi Iredia:
And as I said earlier I find it unsatisfactory.


True. But this doesn't rebut the points I made in the OP.

Good.

Finding it unsatisfactory is fine by me. I was just suggesting what I found useful when I had similar questions.

I'll check for the documents later today when I have some time to spare.

Uyi Iredia:

I did ask in humility and faith. And there was no reply. I don't mean some reply through a voice in your head which is you. I needed a clear reply like the ones seen in the \bible. God's reply to Elijah's request for fire, God calling out to Moses from the burning bush. A clear unmistakable voice of God. I didn't get that. And yet you have the balls to put the blame on my so-called lack of faith. I'm still waiting for replies to THE POINTS I RAISED - the ones in the OP. So far, I'm not impressed with your response, or the others.

You can wait till thy kingdom come, you wont get a reply.

alexleo:

Bros i still suggest you disengage from arguing with this useless people here. We are here to interact with Uyi. Pls face Uyi alone.

Agrred. And I've stated what I want. A response to the OP. Rebutalls to my stance that God isn't loving.

Uyi Iredia:

Agrred. And I've stated what I want. A response to the OP. Rebutalls to my stance that God isn't loving.

Do you have children Uyi?

Alfamann:

First of all, quarantine from what? Contamination of other races? Is he a racist as well? Where is his omnipotence if all he can do is kill, kill, kill? How can an omnipotent one allow a virus to come in the first place?

How can a grown man spit out nonsense like this? Can you print what you just wrote, go and stand in front of a mirror and read it loud and have a serious look at yourself.

Apologies, but I wasn't referring to you. I try to steer clear of those who are perforce disagreeable and tend to resort to insults, an unnecessary trait for mature discussion even when you don't agree with points raised.

Alfamann:

Yes, that's how it starts. You just acknowledged the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Lol. You really think I'm about to join you guys in the temple of the Flying Spaghetti Monster you prefer? ROTFLMKO!

ooman:

Its all BLA BLA BLA in an attempt to deny reality. Its so illogical I couldn't make any seense of out this dump reply of yours.

Good. Sing lalalalala. Atheism is not good for much else.

Alfamann:

Ol boy beware o! He has already started telling you how he has a "fondness" for you.

Typical atheist reading comprehension disorder.

musKeeto:
Get a rise out of me? Lol, now I'm forced to wonder what you and anony have been up to... This ass-licking business.. Hmmmm..

Oh well, every assslicker thinks everyone else licks asss. What can I say?

InesQor: @Muskeeto:

Imagine I had a large poultry farm and I'm developing a special breed of layers in a section. So promising that the yield from those few premium layers far surpasses that of the rest of the lot in thousands.

Now, an enemy of progress introduces a deadly virus strain into my poultry farm and the contamination is rapid, they are dying off in all directions. What is my best bet?

Quarantine. That's my best bet. Quarantine of the promising breed. My priority is to increase profit, so my preoccupation would be to stop the spread. Even at the painful loss of thousands, I will keep few.

In similar regard it is my understanding and belief that from the days of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, God quarantined Israel from all sorts of pollution to ensure that Jesus, the special breed, can be born out of it. He did WHATEVER it took to ensure that by saving THAT chance of Jesus being born, he can save everyone else from ruin. He made the promise since the beginning, and the enemy knew this special breed: Jesus, will bring his doom so he did ALL he could to spiritually contaminate Israel, to politically extinguish them, etc. God had to quarantine them by all means, even if it meant destroying some of them or crushing their enemies.

And finally Jesus was born. There was no longer any need for the quarantine.

It is my belief that this is the reason why the OT God seems different from the NT God in the Bible. His work of quarantine was done. Now, over to Jesus to influence the world and bring back the profits.

That is one very good and elementary way to look at it, my brother. I'm sure I couldn't have explained it so elementarily. I know that there is a far more developed picture than you have presented, but anyone who can't appreciate this cannot even hope to comprehend the fuller picture. Truth be told, the New Testament is not just a mirror of the Old but the full actualization of all that the Old hinted at so that if anyone looks into the New with understanding, they see what the Old really meant and if anyone looks into the Old, they realize that this is a crying child pointing to where its parents are. There is not even really an apparent difference between the God of the Old and the God of the New.

alexleo:

Bros i still suggest you disengage from arguing with this useless people here. We are here to interact with Uyi. Pls face Uyi alone.

While indeed I am here for Uyi, my brother, I am reaching out to him with what I'm doing. In a battle, there are more ways to defeat the enemy than running straight at him with a sword.

Alfamann:

First of all, quarantine from what? Contamination of other races? Is he a racist as well? Where is his omnipotence if all he can do is kill, kill, kill? How can an omnipotent one allow a virus to come in the first place?

How can a grown man spit out nonsense like this? Can you print what you just wrote, go and stand in front of a mirror and read it loud and have a serious look at yourself.

When you don't know how x becomes 53 from the action of a mathematical mechanism, you ask questions not shout about your dead intelligence.

Alfamann:

Fear of another pending deconversion.

Typical atheist blind faith.

InesQor:

Apologies, but I wasn't referring to you. I try to steer clear of those who are perforce disagreeable and tend to resort to insults, an unnecessary trait for mature discussion even when you don't agree with points raised.

Where was the insult? Please grow up.

Ihedinobi:

When you don't know how x becomes 53 from the action of a mathematical mechanism, you ask questions not shout about your dead intelligence.

I asked at least five questions in that post, neither you nor him responded to a single one. Instead we get false accusations about insults request to ask more questions.

Uyi Iredia:

I did ask in humility and faith. And there was no reply. I don't mean some reply through a voice in your head which is you. I needed a clear reply like the ones seen in the \bible. God's reply to Elijah's request for fire, God calling out to Moses from the burning bush. A clear unmistakable voice of God. I didn't get that. And yet you have the balls to put the blame on my so-called lack of faith. I'm still waiting for replies to THE POINTS I RAISED - the ones in the OP. So far, I'm not impressed with your response, or the others.

Lol. Another "God I want you to answer me and it must be on my terms!" What else is new? If you want God, you must take Him on His terms. That's where the humility alexleo spoke of comes in. Who are you that He should come to you? What do you think you are worthy of at the hands of the Almighty? Assume that there is indeed a God and tell me why you should be important to Him. My friend, God owes you absolutely nothing. He may love you, but He doesn't because you are so lovable, He does because it is just Him to love.

And what kind of believing person gives up?

Alfamann:

Where was the insult? Please grow up.

The insult is not from this thread, actually. Though your response here is overtly disagreeable. And I think one who bandies insults is the one who needs to grow up. But well, have it your way.

InesQor: @Uyi Iredia:

Read also, this thread I started yesterday, for a clearer view on how Christian Existentialism approaches the "problem of evil".

"Q n A with Jesus on the problem of evil"

https://www.nairaland.com/1223552/q-jesus-problem-evil

I have read it and posted a reply there.

Alfamann:

Do you have children Uyi?

No I don't. I'm not even married.

Alfamann:

I asked at least five questions in that post, neither you nor him responded to a single one. Instead we get false accusations about insults request to ask more questions.

They were rather stupid questions.

@Ihedinobi:

Yes! My analogy is overly simplistic but I hoped it will provide a new perspective. The OT and NT are like two sides of a coin, it takes a keen perception to see how one foretells the other and the other fulfills the one.

Also, my usage of "apparent change" in the OT/NT Yahweh is, an apparent difference looking from a skeptic's perception. To me God has never changed one bit.

Sometimes I wonder: some skeptics argue against the idea that God made hard decisions in a bid not to contravene man's freewill; and I'm like, as against what exactly? Was it preferable for God to leave us all no choice in the matter? In which case their clamor would be: why didn't he give us freewill. Oh wait, they won't even be able to complain sef.

Ihedinobi:

Lol. Another "God I want you to answer me and it must be on my terms!" What else is new? If you want God, you must take Him on His terms. That's where the humility alexleo spoke of comes in. Who are you that He should come to you? What do you think you are worthy of at the hands of the Almighty? Assume that there is indeed a God and tell me why you should be important to Him. My friend, God owes you absolutely nothing. He may love you, but He doesn't because you are so lovable, He does because it is just Him to love.

And what kind of believing person gives up?

ANd didn't God respond to Gideon when he set the terms down. Isn't it the same God who responded to the stuttering Moses when he asked for signs, the same God who rewarded Elisha's determination. If I want God to answer me in a particular way -especially for a good reason, to avoid confusion- I think an answer is deserved. A loving and humble God isn't so high-handed to answer the doubts of one of his children. A RESPONSIBLE human father wouldn't, talkless of God. I'm disappointed that you are even asking this questions because I always thought God made man precisely because of His love. In fact, I fear we are deviating from the issue I'm interested in which is a rebuttal to my points.

InesQor: @Ihedinobi:

Yes! My analogy is overly simplistic but I hoped it will provide a new perspective. The OT and NT are like two sides of a coin, it takes a keen perception to see how one foretells the other and the other fulfills the one.

Also, my usage of "apparent change" in the OT/NT Yahweh is, an apparent difference looking from a skeptic's perception. To me God has never changed one bit.

Sometimes I wonder: some skeptics argue against the idea that God made hard decisions in a bid not to contravene man's freewill; and I'm like, as against what exactly? Was it preferable for God to leave us all no choice in the matter? In which case their clamor would be: why didn't he give us freewill. Oh wait, they won't even be able to complain sef.

Bless the Lord for utterance, my brother. I was sure you knew what you were talking about. And this post only proves it. You are right. Our friends really don't think before they come to their conclusions. The philosophical problems they create about God are all quite simply addressed by a more involved consideration of whatever it is they're pondering.

I don't know the first time I worried at the issue of free will, but I know that I wished many times that I had none. And if you wish for something hard enough, you can start to think it's really there. Free will must go with a God Who loves us but is nonetheless firm in His Purpose for us and wise enough to work around our power of choice without violating it. And that essentially means that the God in question must be well beyond us intellectually and when we compare things, we'll need an entirely different scale to deal with values on His level.

Uyi Iredia:

No I don't. I'm not even married.

Then you can't understand god's love.

But you can imagine it. Imagine you have children and somebody offended you in the worst possible way that you couldn't find a way to forgive him. You may apply god's love by sending your child to that person with strict instruction to torture him (i.e your son) for hours on end and let him die the most painful death possible. Try to get a live video link to the torture dungeon and listen live while your child, choking on his own blood, confused, hurt and afraid, knows that you are watching him and a phone call will make his suffering stop, there crying "abba, father! why have you forsaken me, wetin I do?".
Then you let him die as atonnement for the hurt his torturer caused you. That is god's love. When you understand such love, you will know that Yahweh is a kind and loving god.