anitank: You do nothing. We just pray to her to intercede on our behalf

Can u back your post with the scriptures, pls?

CAMEROONPRIDE: are u Catholic?(if u don't mind me asking?)

Have been expecting this. Thanks for asking and my apologies for not providing the answer you want cos i don't discuss personal matters online. Sorry to disappoint.

Zikkyy:

Have been expecting this. Thanks for asking and my apologies for not providing the answer you want cos i don't discuss personal matters online. Sorry to disappoint.

no problem i understand . but if u are please read your profession of faith .thank u

Zikkyy: ...... i'll stick to criticizing fraudulent teachings like tithing it's much easier.

lol

Dat one kuku betta pass, sef!

chukwudi44:
Honour is even given to ordinary mortals who are still on this earth let alone Mary the mother of God.Even protestants honour their pastors and their family members as well.Honour is not restricted to the virgin mary and I wonder what irks protestants in the honour given to mary by catholics.
The bible told us "Honour your father and your mother" and Mary said "all generations shall call me blessed".In honouring her we give her prestige for her role in the incarnation.

For the umpteenth time I will tell you "the catholic church does not practice bible alone".That it is not in the bible is not a point.The only point you might raise is if it contradicts any biblical teaching not simply "it is not in the bible".

Sola bible is a protestant doctrine and not a scriptural teaching.

True fact; protestants honour their pastors even more than the catholics honour Mary the Mother of God, not only honouring their pastors; some even worship their pastors as their gods, so many things are happening in their churches but they will be hiding it, all they do is talk against catholic church, I don't really understand why all protestants are againt the catholic church.

talk2chichi: True fact; protestants honour their pastors even more than the catholics honour Mary the Mother of God, not only honouring their pastors; some even worship their pastors as their gods, so many things are happening in their churches but they will be hiding it, all they do is talk against catholic church, I don't really understand why all protestants are againt the catholic church.

The answer to that is envy!! 1.2 billion man size of the church is what is driving them mad.

chukwudi44:

The answer to that is envy!! 1.2 billion man size of the church is what is driving them mad.

2billions actually

CAMEROONPRIDE: are u Catholic?(if u don't mind me asking?)

Zikky is not a catholic but rather an objective xtain.The sooner you stop debating with mad men like the other one the better for you.

nnatom:

u sound like an illiterat,whats ur point. Pls read luke1:43 and clear ur eye.

Ok...my eyes are shining.

Luke 1:43
New International Version (©2011)
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How does this translate to mother of the Most High God? Does it mean you people always favor twisting than saying things as they are. You enjoy giving rat a cow leg.

I repeat, who is the father of the Most High God. With Bible references please.

CAMEROONPRIDE: 2billions actually

the funny thing is that the church keeps growing on daily basis even in the face of this atacks.The opposition to the church is the one that keeps shrinking and chnging
Arianism-non chalcedonians-orthodoxy-protestantim -pentecostalism-WOF

Boomark:

Ok...my eyes are shining.

Luke 1:43
New International Version (©2011)
But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How does this translate to mother of the Most High God? Does it mean you people always favor twisting than saying things as they are. You enjoy giving rat a cow leg.

I repeat, who is the father of the Most High God. With Bible references please.

read it carefully again, luke1:43. Why am i so favoured dat d mother of my lord shld come to me.
Listen to dat, THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME.
If this doesn't sound clear to u, let me put on a clear note.

Is she nt highly blessed for her to be given dat great opportunity to carry and nurse our lord and saviour for d purpose of our redemption.

To crown it up, in luke1:48 she said and i quote, Henceforth, i.e from now on, all generations,including ours o,shall call me BLESSED.

My brother, let stop dis ranting and give her dat honour, she deserves it. Even God honoured her by giving her d opportunity to carry his only begotten Son.

My brother shey e easy? No, no be moi moi.

[b]
One of the chief arguments Catholics submit in defense of their veneration and praise for Mary is the following one - Jesus honored Mary. Here are the actual words in an email, as we received them, from a Catholic trying to defend his actions and beliefs:

One of the 10 commandments is to honor our mother and father. Do you think that Jesus would not want us to honor his mother, the ultimate example of Christian discipleship?

Certainly, Jesus obeyed the command to honor his mother, but what does that mean and how did he honor Mary? Also, should we too honor Mary the same way Jesus did? The only way we can know the answers to the above questions is to go to the Scriptures and note how the Lord himself reacted to various events in his life (which included Mary) and observe his reactions towards her. Such will answer this question about honoring Mary, as Jesus did, once and for all.

If anyone knew how important Mary was and how she should be treated, he certainly did. The surprise comes as Jesus demonstrates this for us. Are you ready for the truth? Here are the facts:

At The Age Of Twelve

While still a boy, at the age of twelve, the following dialogue occurred between Jesus and Mary:

When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” But they did not understand what he was saying to them. (Luke 2:48-50)

NOTE: Jesus gave many rebukes in his lifetime. The Pharisees, Peter, the disciples in general, etc., were frequently rebuked, but it was Mary who heard his first recorded rebuke. Again, Jesus said to Mary to correct her of her error, “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

Catholic friend, do you see any favored treatment in that response to Mary? Does that justify veneration or praise to her for being Jesus’ mother, as is the typical practice in Catholicism? While Jesus still honored his mother, according to Exodus 20:12, he always exalted God, His truth and His will first at all times, especially when Mary would stand in the way of God’s will.

Jesus Didn't Always
Grant Mary's Request

Jesus sometimes did not grant Mary’s request or even acknowledge her presence. This is a blow to many who imagine Jesus as a type of momma’s boy who obeyed whatever Mary requested. Folks, here is the truth:

Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” Again Jesus began to teach by the lake. The crowd that gathered around him was so large that he got into a boat and sat in it out on the lake, while all the people were along the shore at the water’s edge. (Mark 3:31-4:1)

Jesus did not grant Mary’s request, especially at this time when she thought the Lord had gone crazy.

Financial Help

To honor one’s parents can include financial help. This is shown in the following correction and rebuke the Lord Jesus gave the Pharisees regarding the very same command sometimes used to justify the Catholic exaltation of their Mary:

Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’ he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’” (Mat 15:3-9)

In other words, instead of helping one’s needy parents financially, the Pharisees were teaching the same money could be given as a gift to God (which they could personally benefit by). Therefore, the word of God was nullified because the parents, who needed financial help, wouldn’t get aid and therefore wouldn’t be honored in this way.

Paul also referred to the same Exodus 20 command about honoring one’s mother and father:

Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother”—which is the first commandment with a promise—“that it may go well with you and that you may enjoy long life on the earth.” (Eph 6:1-3)

Here honoring one’s parents can refer to obeying them, if it doesn’t violate Scripture. But to honor the Mary of Catholicism, as Catholics do, is to violate Scripture. Jesus didn’t treat his mother the way Catholics do today. This is important to remember.

Why Disobey

Why does Catholicism magnify Ex. 20:12 (the command about honoring one’s mother and father) yet disobey another of the 10 Commandments regarding not bowing before graven images:

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. (Ex. 20:4-6)

Without question, bowing before graven images is a practice widely done in Catholic circles. Hence, this Catholic tradition has nullified the command of God (Ex. 20:4-6).

In conclusion: Catholicism is without Scriptural support for their exaltation of a fabricated Mary, who they think is the sinless, Queen of heaven, mediatrix of all graces and “our life, sweetness and hope” among other things. To venerate (a synonym for worship) or to praise Mary as done in Catholic circles, is clearly to contradict the word of God.

Finally, the ultimate example of discipleship could have nothing to do with something that is contrary to Scripture, especially to this degree.

GOD BLESS YOU.[/b]

^^^ u are a fool ... ur trash doesn't prove anything .

[b]A little-known and shocking truth about Mary, the Mother of Jesus, is what you are about to be shown from the Scriptures. Please consider the evidence. It is indeed the message of the word of God. This is what happened, even though Mary is presented much differently, even sinless:

●Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.” (Mark 3:20, 21)

Those are extremely important verses to focus in upon for it shockingly declares that Jesus’ natural family thought he was out of his mind, that is, insane! (Who is included in the family will be revealed in verse 31.)

●And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.” So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house. I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.” He said this because they were saying, “He has an evil spirit.” Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. (Mark 3:22-31)

That passage reveals who the natural family members were who wrongly thought Jesus was insane and states they arrived at this point. They left to take charge of Jesus in verse 21 and arrived here at verse 31. To the surprise of many it was Mary and Jesus' brothers. Are you surprised?

●A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.” (Mark 3:32)

Mary and her other sons were looking for Jesus. (Mary didn’t remain a virgin after Jesus was born.) Again, the reason why his natural family came is stated in v. 21, that is, to take charge of him, since they thought he was crazy.

●“Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! (Mark 3:33,34)

Jesus does not acknowledge Mary or her other sons in the slightest way as being his mother and brothers. He showed them no special honor. In fact, he didn’t even talk to them at this point. Instead, the Lord said:

●Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.” (Mark 3:35)

Jesus made a distinction between Mary (and his brothers) and his spiritual family, since they were not doing the will of God at that point. It is impossible to do the will of God if you believe the Lord is crazy and desire to take charge of him. Taking charge of Jesus would have prevented him from going to the cross. Somehow Mary was no longer believing in Jesus, but instead thought he was now insane, according to the Bible! Hence, Mary sinned. Furthermore, Mary lost her salvation because of her unbelief in Jesus. This is also clear since she was not considered by Jesus to be part of his spiritual family then. (Later on that would change.) Jesus stated who his spiritual family was in verse 34 and that excluded Mary, for it only included those doing the will of God.

Finally, Jesus did not grant Mary’s request. In other words, he didn’t see her at this point when she thought he was insane and wanted to take charge of him. These are the facts though many have never heard them before and can’t imagine them to be true. Especially Catholics are of that number. Read them again and become acquainted with reality. Please know the real Mary is not “our life, sweetness and hope.” It is only the fabricated Mary of Catholicism, as declared in the rosary, which is called those things. The truth is JESUS is our life, sweetness and hope. That is vital truth for your salvation.

Do not trust in the mythical sinless Mary, who is also supposed to be the Queen of Heaven and Mediatrix of All Graces. Such a person doesn’t exist. Trust in Jesus 100% for your salvation and turn from your sins. This is a heaven or hell issue. Jesus is the only Savior. GOD BLESS YOU.[/b]

nnatom:

read it carefully again, luke1:43. Why am i so favoured dat d mother of my lord shld come to me.
Listen to dat, THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME.
If this doesn't sound clear to u, let me put on a clear note.

Is she nt highly blessed for her to be given dat great opportunity to carry and nurse our lord and saviour for d purpose of our redemption.

To crown it up, in luke1:48 she said and i quote, Henceforth, i.e from now on, all generations,including ours o,shall call me BLESSED.

My brother, let stop dis ranting and give her dat honour, she deserves it. Even God honoured her by giving her d opportunity to carry his only begotten Son.

My brother shey e easy? No, no be moi moi.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Some people just copy and paste thrash without even bothering to read them.I wonder if all that thrash you posted above made any sense to you.

Catholics are even yet to give to mary 10% of the honours this hypocrites give to their pastors.

Anyone who does not like how catholics honour Mary should just jump into the nearest lagoon or better still go and hug the nearest transformer.

[b]The Fatima Visions
fatima
Fatima children According to the Catholic church, the Virgin Mary appeared at Fatima, Portugal numerous times in 1917 to three little shepherds named Lucia, Francisco and Jacinta. Since the Roman Catholic church has endorsed and fully accepted these visions as being from God and they have in turn affected hundreds of millions of people over the years by their messages these are very important Marian apparitions. The Bible commands Christians to test all things, which includes visions:
Test everything. Hold on to the good. (1 Thess. 5:21)
How are we to test these visions to ascertain their source and know how sound the wishes and directives of the Mary of Catholicism are?
The Message of Fatima

Virgin Mary at Fatima The visions at Fatima consisting of three apparitions of angels and at least six apparitions of Mary, would have us focus our attention in upon Mary as our refuge, the way to God, protector, etc. Moreover, according to these Catholic visions, amends for sin are to be made to Mary. Please carefully note the following statements which were communicated by Mary (or Lucia about Mary) at Fatima. [All quotes in this list are from the booklet entitled, Lucia Speaks on The Message of Fatima printed by Ave Maria Institute and carry the nihil obstat and imprimatur.]
Say the Rosary every day in order to obtain peace for the world and the end of the war (p.24).
Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart (p.26).

Mary Of Catholicism I (Mary) will never leave you. My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God (p.26).

In front of the palm of Our Lady's right hand there was a heart encircled with thorns which pierced it. We understood that it was the Immaculate Heart of Mary, outraged by the sins of Humanity, and that She wanted reparation (pp.26,27).

What I do remember is that Our Lady said it was necessary for those persons to say the Rosary in order to obtain the graces during the year. And She continued: "Sacrifice yourself for sinners, and say often, especially when you make some sacrifice: 'Oh Jesus, this is for love of You, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for the sins committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.'" (p. 29).

You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. In order to save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If you do what I tell you, many souls will be saved, there will be peace (p.30).

And then with a sad expression She said: "Pray, pray very much and make sacrifices for sinners, for many souls go to hell because they have nobody to pray and make sacrifices for them" (p.35).

I want to tell you that I wish a chapel to be erected here in my honour, for I am the Lady of the Rosary. Continue to say the Rosary every day (p.40).

The 1925 Message to Lucia

Then on December 10, 1925 Mary and the child Jesus appeared, according to Lucia. The child Jesus said:
Have pity on the Heart of your Most Holy Mother. It is covered with the thorns with which ungrateful men pierce it at every moment, and there is no one to remove them with an act of reparation (p. 46).
Then the personage presenting herself as Mary said to Lucia:
My daughter, look at My Heart surrounded with the thorns with which ungrateful men piece it at every moment by their blasphemies and ingratitude. You at least, try to console me, and say that I promise to assist at the hour of death with the graces necessary for salvation all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, go to Confession and receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary and keep me company for a quarter of an hour while meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making reparation to me (pp.46,47).
Is This The Mary of the Bible?

1. The Rosary is exalted in these visions, but is anti-scriptural in itself. Jesus taught:
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. (Mat 6:6-
Nowhere in the Bible are we ever told to pray to Mary or repetitiously, as the Fatima visions would have us do. Furthermore the Rosary would have us wrongly think Mary is our life. See our detailed article on the rosary.
The Bible declares Jesus is our Life:

I am the bread of life. (John 6:48)
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies" (John 11:25)

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6)

When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. (Col 3:4)

The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. (1 John 1:2)

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. (1 John 5:11)

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. (1 John 5:12)

Dear reader, is Jesus your life or is Mary? Your answer will affect your eternal destiny.
2. Does Jesus wish to establish world devotion to Mary? Please know that such was never the desire or will of the Lord at any time as expressed in the Bible. Jesus repeatedly pointed people to Himself, and rightly so since he is the Savior, our Life, only Hope, all in all, etc. He told people to come to him, follow him, obey him, trust on him, believe on him and remain in him. The Lord never pointed anyone to Mary and Himself. It was never a Son/mother team in the Bible. Please remember this and note the following teachings of Jesus Himself:

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Mat 11:28)
The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, "Follow me." (John 1:43)

You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life. (John 5:39,40)

Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty." (John 6:35)

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. (John 6:37)

On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." (John 7:37,38)

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. (John 10:9)

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me" (John 10:14)

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. (John 10:27)

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" (John 11:25 26)

"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me" (John 14:1)

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

"If you love me, you will obey what I command" (John 14:15)

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him. (John 14:21)

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me" (John 14:23,24)

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. (John 15:4)

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)

If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. (John 15:6,7)

in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; (John 16:9)

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, (John 17:20)

When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs." Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep." The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. (John 21:15-17)

We even see the Holy Spirit will bring glory to Jesus:
He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. (John 16:14)
Our devotion, trust, faith, reliance, love, etc. is to be on Jesus with no mention of Mary, based on Jesus' teachings as well as his holy apostles. Moreover, Jesus is the one the Holy Spirit will glorify.
3. The Mary of the Bible could never say I will never leave you, as proclaimed in these visions. (Nor could she be our refuge or the way that will lead you to God). Please know it is only God who could promise the disciples that he would never leave them, since God is everywhere present:

Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. (Deu 31:6)
The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged. (Deut. 31:

No one will be able to stand up against you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you. (Josh 1:5)

Also, our refuge is clearly God and Jesus and not Mary too:
My God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior - from violent men you save me. (2 Sam. 22:3).
As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him. (2 Sam 22:31)

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him. (Psa 2:12)

The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble. (Psa 9:9)

You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge. (Psa 14:6)

The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. (Psa 18:2)

Most importantly we must know, for salvation's sake, that Jesus is the way (or road) to the Father:
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)
To say Mary is the way to God is to say we should trust in her for salvation, which is not only disobedience but spiritually deadly, according to the Bible.
4. To say Mary wants reparation for sins committed is to say that we are to make amends, satisfaction and restitution to her for sins, which is incredibly unscriptural. When people sin they don't sin against Mary since she is not here among the living to be sinned against and neither is she deity. People either sin against a living person here among us now or against God, according to the Bible:

No one is greater in this house than I am. My master has withheld nothing from me except you, because you are his wife. How then could I do such a wicked thing and sin against God?" (Gen 39:9)
Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God. (Deu 20:18)

As for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the LORD by failing to pray for you. And I will teach you the way that is good and right. (1 Sam 12:23)

Then he said, "Go out among the men and tell them, 'Each of you bring me your cattle and sheep, and slaughter them here and eat them. Do not sin against the LORD by eating meat with blood still in it.'" So everyone brought his ox that night and slaughtered it there. (1 Sam 14:34)

When they sin against you - for there is no one who does not sin - and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to his own land, far away or near; (1 Ki 8:46)

In every case that comes before you from your fellow countrymen who live in the cities - whether bloodshed or other concerns of the law, commands, decrees or ordinances - you are to warn them not to sin against the LORD; otherwise his wrath will come on you and your brothers. Do this, and you will not sin. (2 Chr 19:10)

I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you. (Psa 119:11)

For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Mat 6:14)

When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. (1 Cor 8:12)
[/b]

[b]5. Unlike what the Fatima visions declare, no one can obtain grace by praying the rosary. If we could, then there is now a means to obtain grace that never existed for the first 1000 years in Christianity, since praying the Rosary began in 1090 A.D.
6. To save souls from Hell God wants the true gospel to be declared so forgiveness of sins can be found. Such never comes by devotion to Mary's Immaculate Heart. The true gospel is summed up as repentance towards God and faith in Christ Jesus (Acts 20:21). We prove our repentance by our deeds (Acts 26:20) and must endure to the end to be saved (Mt. 10:22). This is the message that Jesus wanted his followers to spread throughout the world. Please note that Mary is not included in the message Jesus gave the disciples to spread.

Not The Mary of The Bible

7. The following is a clear example of a false gospel, but nonetheless is part of the salvation message at Fatima. The personage claiming to be Mary said:
I promise to assist at the hour of death with the graces necessary for salvation all those who, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months, go to Confession and receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary and keep me company for a quarter of an hour while meditating on the mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making reparation to me (p. 47).
Dear reader, please know that Mary doesn't have the ability or influence to make such a promise to assist in one's salvation. Furthermore, even if she did, her directives are not true. All this talk about going to confession, receiving communion, reciting 5 decades of the Rosary, etc. is all foreign to the Bible. This was never the message of Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, James, etc. Did God have his salvation message changed or revised for us since Fatima? If He did, then there is now another way to obtain salvation since the Fatima visions, which is impossible. There has only been one true plan of salvation alongside many counterfeits. The following is most relevant about a false gospel:
.... Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (Gal 1:7-9)
All this evidence from comparing (and contrasting) the message of Fatima to the Bible forces one to conclude the personage representing Mary was not the Mary of the Bible. The Mary of the Bible never had any role in one's salvation, as already proven. Never did any sinner go to Mary to get to Jesus. Never is Mary shown to have more mercy or compassion on sinners than Jesus did, etc. The message of Fatima draws our attention and trust from the Lord Jesus and places them upon a creature (Mary). Even though sincere Catholic people may be trying to reach out to God by observing the Fatima message, we must come to God the way the Lord taught to receive salvation results.
The Vision of Moses and Elijah

Peter, John and James had a vision of Moses and Elijah in their glorious splendor:
About eight days after Jesus said this, he took Peter, John and James with him and went up onto a mountain to pray. As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus. They spoke about his departure, which he was about to bring to fulfillment at Jerusalem. Peter and his companions were very sleepy, but when they became fully awake, they saw his glory and the two men standing with him. As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, "Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters - one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." (He did not know what he was saying.) While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. A voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him." When the voice had spoken, they found that Jesus was alone. The disciples kept this to themselves, and told no one at that time what they had seen (Lk. 9:28-36).
Moses and Elijah spoke with Jesus about his departure, which would be fulfilled at Jerusalem. (Jesus' departure refers to his physical death.) Please note that no unscriptural statements were uttered by Moses or Elijah. Nothing they declared would cause one to trust in them for anything, including protection, salvation or anything else. Furthermore, there was a form of correction that needed to be issued as a result of this vision. It was given to Peter who wrongly wanted to exalt these two men to the same level as the Lord by building a shelter for them as he wanted one also built for the Lord. The voice from the cloud (God the Father) rebuked Peter for even the suggestion that these men are on a par with Jesus and declared that we are listen to Jesus.
We can learn from that vision and correction issued to Peter. Again, please know that even though someone would appear in glorious splendor, that in itself doesn't mean that the vision could not be misunderstood, as Peter did. Most importantly, Moses and Elijah didn't speak in any unscriptural way. They merely spoke with the Lord about his departure, which was 100% in accord with Scripture.

Is Mary Blessed Because She Gave Birth To Jesus?

Nearly two thousand years ago, a woman tried to publically exalt Mary on the basis that she gave birth to Jesus in the presence of the Lord Himself and his disciples. This is how the eternal record states it:
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." (Luke 11:27,28)
Did the Lord approve of her praise of Mary? Holy Writ states that the Lord publicly rebuked that Mary-exalting woman for that notion and set the record straight on who is blessed with these words: Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it. Please note that Jesus wants all to know that any person hearing and obeying God's word is blessed more than Mary, the mother of Jesus, on the basis she gave birth to Jesus. Dear reader do you believe what Jesus taught here? Please read his eternal words again:
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you." He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it." (Luke 11:27,28)
Satan Can Masquerade as an Angel of Light

Satan can come as an angel of light Among the many ways the devil tries to deceive people is through visions. According to the following we must be on guard against such a subtle form of deception:
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (2 Cor 11:14)
That truth explains why the message of Fatima is so foreign to the Bible. It also explains how such a vision could endorse many Catholic practices which are unscriptural in themselves. Please know that Mormonism and Seventh Day Adventism also claim visions from God, but they flatly contradict the visions of Catholicism. Since God can't be contradicting Himself with all of these visions there has to be another source of visions besides God. According to Scripture that other source is the devil. Deception is the work of the arch-deceiver, who is trying to mislead precious souls trying to find God. Dear reader, to know God's will for you and how to find salvation, go to the New Testament and trust its message above everything else you were ever taught. It in turn will point you to Jesus and Him alone for your salvation.
The Solar Miracle and Healings

If the devil is try to deceive sincere people through these visions, then how should we view the solar miracle and healings that have occurred there? On July 13th, Lucia requested a miracle from Mary so that everyone will believe that you have appeared to us. In response, Mary answered:
Continue to come here every month. In October I will tell you who I am and what I want, and will perform a miracle so that all may believe (p. 29).
The miracle on October 13, 1917 is described by Lucia in the following words:
... And opening Her hands, She made them reflect on the sun. While She ascended, the reflection from Her person was projected on the sun itself. That is the reason why I cried aloud "Look at the sun" (p. 40).
Besides the solar miracle there have been reported physical healings over the years at Fatima. Undoubtedly, many would view this as surely being the handiwork of God. But the truth is, if we go to Scripture, we learn there are two sources of such miraculous/healing power - God and the devil. Please see our important and detailed teaching on miracles.
The Fatima Discrepancies

On May 13, 1917 when the Mary of Fatima started to appear to the three little shepherd children, among other things, she told them:
I came to ask you to come here [Cova da Iria] for six successive months, on the 13th day at the same hour. Later I will tell you what I want. And I will return here yet a seventh time. (Lucia Speaks on The Message of Fatima [Ave Maria Institute, Washington, New Jersey], p. 22.)
Wrong Time and Place!

The fourth apparition occurred on August 15, 1917 in a place different from the Cova da Iria called Valinhos. ( Ibid., p. 33.) A different source shows a four day discrepancy from this account:
On the afternoon of Sunday 19 August, Lucia, Francisco and his broth John were pasturing the sheep in a rocky field known as Valinhos, about a mile from Fatima, when suddenly they noticed the beginning of the extraordinary atmospheric phenomena that has preceded the visions in the Cova da Iria. (Francis Johnson, Fatima: The Great Sign [Tan Books and Publishers, Rockford, Illinois], p. 45.)
Note: In both quotes it was not on the 13th of the month and not in the place where Mary told the children to be to see the apparition. Is it possible the all-knowing God was taken by surprise and had to send Mary to a different place on a different day then originally announced?
Fatima's Penance For Salvation -
Drinking Pond Water?

As a result of the Fatima message the three children were influenced in the following way behavior-wise:
The three children undertook the most severe penance for the salvation of sinners. They wore a rope tightly round their waists; they gave their lunches to the poor, or even to their sheep; they didn't drink during the furnace-like heat of August 1917 - an almost unendurable penance as anyone who has stayed in Fatima during that month will appreciate. Later, Jacinta even wanted to drink water from a pond frequented by cattle. (Fatima: The Great Sign, p. 37.)
Again, from a Biblical point of view the above statements are far from God's truth, especially in the following ways: (1) Jesus on Calvary's cross was the all-sufficient and final sacrifice for sinners. There is nothing Lucia, Jacinta or any other, as sincere as he may be, improve upon that one-time-for-all-sin sacrifice, (2) It is impossible that Mary has been sinned against, as suggested, and that reparation (satisfaction) needs to be made to her. (3) In October, the Mary of Fatima revealed herself as the Lady of the Rosary. (Ibid., p.40.) This again shows the spiritual force behind these apparitions is not the same as what gave us the Scriptures.
The Bad Fruit of Fatima and Other Visions

Sadly, Jacinta trusted in Mary for her salvation, at least in part, because of the visions she saw:
During this period her [Jacinta] love of God and Our Lady seems to have risen to ecstatic heights. She never tired repeating: ".... Sweet Heart of Mary, be my salvation!" (Fatima The Great Sign, pp. 82,83.)
Only God knows how many others have likewise been misled through Marian visions over the years. As astronomical as that number is, it is even larger when one would include the ones deceived by the visions that Joseph Smith and Ellen G. White claim to have had that has adversely affected millions of Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists throughout the years.
Fatima: a Compendium of the Catholic Faith

As the Bishop of Fatima expressed it in 1975: "Fatima as a whole is a compendium of the Catholic Faith." (Fatima, The Great Sign, inside back cover)
To be more exact, the Fatima visions confirmed the following doctrines, most of which are distinctively Catholic and unscriptural:
The apparitions of Our Lady in the following year again emphasise (sic) the priority of penance and prayer, particularly the devout daily recitation of the gospel prayer of the rosary - which contains all the mysteries of our salvation, - as Pope Leo XIII pointed out. Also confirmed in Our Lady's appearances were the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, the Sacrifice of the Mass, the authority of the Pope, the existence of Heaven, Purgatory and Hell, of saints and demons that Modernists try to eliminate, the meaning and value of suffering, the evil of sin and the serious obligation of every committed Christian to the work of atonement, the necessity of interior conversion, the indwelling of God in the souls of the just by grace, the mystery of Christ's redemption, the unique role of Mary as our Mediatrix with Christ, the importance of devotion to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary, the practice of the virtues and the spiritual and corporal works of mercy and so on. Even the doctrine of original sin is implied at Fatima, for the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which Fatima underlines, clearly brings into focus the Immaculate Conception which in turn points to the doctrine of the Fall. (Fatima, The Great Sign, pp. 75,76.)
The Fatima False Gospel

It is crystal clear from the evidence that the Mary of Fatima is not the Mary of the Bible. There is only one way to be saved and Mary is not even indirectly connected in the smallest manner with our salvation, according to the Bible. Mary has absolutely no role in our salvation, that is, unless you accept Scripture-contradicting-Marian-visions (and other Catholic materials) that would state she does. But to do that is to dangerously ignore the fact that the Scriptures (or sacred writings) are able to give us the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus:
And that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim. 3:15).
Notice how the Scriptures will cause us to place our faith in Jesus alone for salvation. Hence, not only don't we need to go elsewhere for salvation directions, we can be assured all other sources (visions, papal decrees, etc.) that would differ with what the Scriptures declare are not from the same source that gave us the Bible.
The Acid Test For The Fatima Visions

Again, the real test for Fatima is the message itself and how it parallels or contradicts the message of the Bible. It is not if there are miracles or healings, but the message itself. When such is examined, Fatima is shown to be of a different source than the one who gave us the Bible. To be more exact, this different source is an enemy trying to lead us away from absolute 100% trust and reliance on Jesus, who is our life, for our salvation, as declared in the Scriptures. Dear reader, please for your own soul's sake carefully reread this important article and verify all Scripture references for yourself. Don't just trust another to do this for you. Souls are at stake over this issue. Please pass this article on to a Catholic friend. GOD BLESS YOU.[/b]

chukwudi44: Some people just copy and paste thrash without even bothering to read them.I wonder if all that thrash you posted above made any sense to you.

Catholics are even yet to give to mary 10% of the honours this hypocrites give to their pastors.

Anyone who does not like how catholics honour Mary should just jump into the nearest lagoon or better still go and hug the nearest transformer.

I advice you watch this video from a former catholic who got converted. This is from an authority. So watch and please keep an open mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbREOhih6Q

[/quote]Furthermore, Mary lost her salvation because of her unbelief in Jesus. This is also clear since she was not considered by Jesus to be part of his spiritual family then. [quote]

I wonder how some with grey matter inside his skull will write this

4everGod:


I advice you watch this video from a former catholic who got converted. This is from an authority. So watch and please keep an open mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbREOhih6Q

I will also advise you to read up the story of Scott and Kimberly Hahn a former protestant pastor who has turned out to become one of the greatest catholic apologists of aour time.you can read them up in wikipedia as well as google their names and read up more about them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Hahn

4everGod:

The word of God isnt understood with gray matter but rather with spirit Matter. Just watch the video

Demonic spirit matter I agree but definitely nothing to do with the holy spirit

nnatom:

read it carefully again, luke1:43. Why am i so favoured dat d mother of my lord shld come to me.
Listen to dat, THE MOTHER OF MY LORD SHOULD COME TO ME.
If this doesn't sound clear to u, let me put on a clear note.

Is she nt highly blessed for her to be given dat great opportunity to carry and nurse our lord and saviour for d purpose of our redemption.

To crown it up, in luke1:48 she said and i quote, Henceforth, i.e from now on, all generations,including ours o,shall call me BLESSED.

My brother, let stop dis ranting and give her dat honour, she deserves it. Even God honoured her by giving her d opportunity to carry his only begotten Son.

My brother shey e easy? No, no be moi moi.

Have you seen anyone that says Mary is not blessed? Mary is blessed. Have i not called her blessed?

Jesus also said that all who do the will of the Father is blessed. Therefore i am blessed too. Do you disagree with him and me?

Do you agree that our Lord is Lord over all including Mary?

It is a sin to make the image of an unknown persons whom you call Mary to honour her(kneeling and bowing to it) and call her blessed through man-made images. Who gave you that command?

It is either you agree with these things i have written or you disagree with them. Don't just go and start quoting what you think you know as a reply to these things.

CAMEROONPRIDE: ^^^ u are a fool ... ur trash doesn't prove anything .

try this

She was the first to be rebuked/corrected by the 12 year old. Follow Christ in spirit not molded images.

Boomark:

Have you seen anyone that says Mary is not blessed? Mary is blessed. Have i not called her blessed?

Jesus also said that all who do the will of the Father is blessed. Therefore i am blessed too. Do you disagree with him and me?

Do you agree that our Lord is Lord over all including Mary?

It is a sin to make the image of an unknown persons whom you call Mary to honour her(kneeling and bowing to it) and call her blessed through man-made images. Who gave you that command?

It is either you agree with these things i have written or you disagree with them. Don't just go and start quoting what you think you know as a reply to these things.

my brother stop dis thing u say. Have u heard any body saying she is greater dan christ.

And for d first commandment u quoted, i hope u understand English very well. We don' worship her, neither hav we called her our God cos if we do we'll nt ask for her intercession rather we ask her for our need straight.

Note this, we are never and will never worship her, pls get dat into ur head and stop missing up the honour and worship thing. After all u bow and even lie down for ur kings and obas, does dat mean u worship them.

Boomark:

try this

She was the first to be rebuked/corrected by the 12 year old. Follow Christ in spirit not molded images.

He never rebuked her,pls understand d way u use d word rebuke. If He rebuked her He wouldn't have changed dat water to wine when she asked Him to, mind u He did it even when He said it is nt yet time.

Mind ur words brother, b4 it hunt u.

Ghostface_killa: Actually nothing happens IN JESUS NAME as well......smh

May God 4give u 4 dat blasphemy. I pity your life, u beta repent now, ur type dnt live long...

nnatom:

He never rebuked her,pls understand d way u use d word rebuke. If He rebuked her He wouldn't have changed dat water to wine when she asked Him to, mind u He did it even when He said it is nt yet time.

Mind ur words brother, b4 it hunt u.

[b]Do you even know when Jesus first rebuked Mary? Do you think it was at the wedding feast? Let me show you.

While still a boy, at the age of twelve, the following dialogue occurred between Jesus and Mary:

When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?” But they did not understand what he was saying to them. (Luke 2:48-50)

NOTE: Jesus gave many rebukes in his lifetime. The Pharisees, Peter, the disciples in general, etc., were frequently rebuked, but it was Mary who heard his first recorded rebuke. Again, Jesus said to Mary to correct her of her error, “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

Catholic friend, do you see any favored treatment in that response to Mary? Does that justify veneration or praise to her for being Jesus’ mother, as is the typical practice in Catholicism? While Jesus still honored his mother, according to Exodus 20:12, he always exalted God, His truth and His will first at all times, especially when Mary would stand in the way of God’s will.
[/b]

In the name of Mary every knee rise up

4everGod:


I advice you watch this video from a former catholic who got converted. This is from an authority. So watch and please keep an open mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNbREOhih6Q

You mean a catholic who lost his faith?
As for your Fatima story, stop withholding portions of the truth. Our Lady had to appear at Valinhos four days late from the agreed date because the children had been detained by the town leader. That was why they couldn't come to The Cova at the agreed date. Our Lady, understanding as always, appeared to them later after their release at Valinhos.
4evergod, the zeal with which you attack the Mother of Jesus, I seriously pity you.