Goshen360:

YOU know I believe God do exist. Bidam, you can't answer the question, do us a favor, kindly STEP ASIDE, I need Image123 to STEP FORWARD NOW TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. Thank you.

Hell would freeze over before image123 or any of his cohorts answer that question.

Goshen360:

YOU know I believe God do exist. Bidam, you can't answer the question, do us a favor, kindly STEP ASIDE, I need Image123 to STEP FORWARD NOW TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. Thank you.

mockery. i don't think you believe God exist you just have head knowledge of scriptures..no light no dunamis..enjoy your thread.

Pastor Kun:

Hell would freeze over before image123 or any of his cohorts answer that question.

we are Abraham's seed according to promise..Faith without works is dead.

And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galatians 3:29

For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, "Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Hebrews 6:13-15 Genesis 22:17

Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's. But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mark 10:29-30





Proverbs 3: 9-10
Honor the LORD with thy substance, and with the first fruits [tithe] of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Bidam: mockery. i don't think you believe God exist you just have head knowledge of scriptures..no light no dunamis..enjoy your thread.

By God grace on me, I don't compete with nobody but function in my teaching call & Grace. You can't answer to what you teach. You should be ashamed of yourself. Tithing is according to the law of Moses and we are NOT under the law of Moses but of Christ. I have one more question, if you don't mind.

What may we consider is the chief problem at the moment: the church, mostly Pentecostals have departed from the truth of God's word and showing the error in tithing is contending for the truth as was once delivered to the saints, Jude3.
The issue is not tithing, the issue following truth. I tithed for 15yrs bc I never really sat down to study it for myself; except to believe what others told me. I was jolted out of this by that little but unfortunate car incidence in my local church(and I must thank Oritsejafor too for the purchase of his jet).
The core truth of the NT is not do this, don't do this; it the gospel of God's grace: Christ Jesus died to save sinners of whom I am chief. God blessed all humanity in Christ and we receive this blessing by faith in Christ and we rejoice in the hope of eternal life. He that did not withhold his Son but gave him to us, how shall he not freely give us all things. That is the gospel.

In the cross of Jesus God has never demanded anything from anyone to bless them, rather He blesses us and we in turn live the rest of our lives in sacrificial awe of Him. That is the truth that nullifies tithing. Tithe is taught in churches using Malachi 3 that says we should tithe and then God will bless and rebuke the devourer and remove a curse. But that message was to the Jews; same way God commanded the Jews to build the temple instead of their homes after they returned from captivity in Haggai. No one takes that scripture in Haggai to build churches instead of their homes today, now. Just like the tithe advocates have been accused of it is easy to take that scripture out of the context it was used to support a very ill practice.
The practice of tithing has not helped the church at all. It has produced a proliferation of churches, where everyone is now called to ministry bc there's free tithe to spend.

It has re-enacted a levithical priesthood that was abolished since Christ's resurrection and today we are told pastors are men of God and must not be criticized, if not wrath will come on you. Of course the tithe is always available to sustain them. It has led to the preaching of another gospel - the prosperity gospel. It has relegated Pau's letters to second fiddle; when in actual fact Paul's letters gave the NT testament church the foundation she is to be founded on. Unfortunately, Paul 'forgot' to teach on tithe. And anytime the church forgets Paul's teaching, it returns to the idolatry of Popery.

Goshen360:

By God grace on me, I don't compete with nobody but function in my teaching call & Grace. You can't answer to what you teach. You should be ashamed of yourself. Tithing is according to the law of Moses and we are NOT under the law of Moses but of Christ. I have one more question, if you don't mind.

THAT'S IT. YOU SHOULD RATHER BE Ashamed of your post that reeks mischief and hypocrisy.

Tithing has created a lazy pastorate. It has limited Christians' blessing to just 10% when God will have us increase in the grace of giving to the point we are giving a 100%.
Tithing is evil and I am thankful to God for delivering me from its shackles. At the end we all will be judged on how we handled God's graces in our lives based on our understanding of the bible. I will be judged on the fact that I faithfully withstood the evil of tithing, as Paul did the circumcision, and there will be a crown awaiting me.

I am not a beneficiary of tithe money but i also do not see anything wrong in giving tithe. Yes we are no more under the curse of the law but thats not a strong reason to condemn giving of tithe. yes someone may not give tithe and still prosper but thats not enough reason for me to dismiss tithe. There are so many sins listed in the old testament which incurred curse and God's instant judgment in the old testament but today people commit them and no such instant judgment comes upon them because we are now in the time of grace yet that doesnt make those sins good in our time. The woman who committed adultery in the time of Jesus was to be stoned according to the law but Jesus made the people not to stone her yet that did not translate to adultery being a lesser sin in the new testament than it was in the old testament. Yes its also possible that the curses surrounding tithe is not tenable in our days because we are no more under the curse of the law yet that does not dismiss tithing. I AM NOT CONVINCED TO STOP TITHING AND OF COURSE AM NOT PLANNING TO STOP. One may have issues with the manner some churches go about the tithe thing but that doesnt condemn the act of tithing itself. yes we did not read of tithing during the time of the apostles and of course there are so many things we are using too and doing which the apostles did not do. I am very sure that the apostles did not spread the gospel with microphones and speakers, they did not spread it through the internet as we are doing now or through the media, they may not have used the trouser and shirt we are using now as their cloth... the list goes on. My stand remains that, whatever anybody reads here, pls go to God in prayer for the Holy Spirit to guide you aright. the fact that any of us can post a true teaching here today does not mean that we cannot post a wrong one the next minute or the next day and even thinking we are still right, thats why we must at the end of the day seek the Holy Spirit(inclding the teachings you received in your churches because pastors are human). For example, in my church in the 70s and early 80s, we were told that buying TV is a sin and people did not buy it, those who bought it before joining our church destroyed theirs when they joined our church but today they ve understood it better and TV is now being used even in the church. Now does it mean that sin translates to righteousness after some years if we should go by the story i ve given you? The answer is NO but the lack of the proper exposure of the leadership then to this particular issue caused it and they branded it sin whereas its no sin. Thats why its good to pray over teachings after hearing or reading them for the holy Spirit to guide you aright. Yet i wont blame our leaders because they did it out of a good mind and their zealousness to keep away from anything that will make members to fall into sin and not to be wicked on member or to deceive them. NO. It was out of their good intention that they gave that instruction. FOR ME, ITS THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT IS MY FINAL DECIDER.

DrummaBoy:
Tithing has created a lazy pastorate. It has limited Christians' blessing to just 10% when God will have us increase in the grace of giving to the point we are giving a 100%.
Tithing is evil and I am thankful to God for delivering me from its shackles. At the end we all will be judged on how we handled God's graces in our lives based on our understanding of the bible. I will be judged on the fact that I faithfully withstood the evil of tithing, as Paul did the circumcision, and there will be a crown awaiting me.

it is statements like this that makes me wonder whether YOU ARE REALLY A CHRISTIAN...DON'T SAY WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW BRO..THERE IS NO COMPARISM WITH THE JEWS CIRCUMCISION AND GIVING..THEY ARE SEPARATE AND POLES APART..GIVING IS SACRIFICIAL, CIRCUMCISION IS NOT..MORESO PEOPLE STILL CIRCUMCISE THEIR CHILDREN UP TILL TODAY..ARE YOU TELLING US IT IS A SIN?

DrummaBoy:
Tithing has created a lazy pastorate. It has limited Christians' blessing to just 10% when God will have us increase in the grace of giving to the point we are giving a 100%.
Tithing is evil and I am thankful to God for delivering me from its shackles. At the end we all will be judged on how we handled God's graces in our lives based on our understanding of the bible. I will be judged on the fact that I faithfully withstood the evil of tithing, as Paul did the circumcision, and there will be a crown awaiting me.

TITHING IS NOT EVIL. DONT CONCLUDE WHAT YOU ARE NOT SURE OF. If your pastor handled it wrongly thats your church issue and not enough to make a blanket condemnation.

Tithing is wrong from all perspectives and is a doctrine of demons.

Enough bible verses have been quoted to debunk this myth and source of greed, scams and outright 419.

As far as we breath , we will fight to free the brethren from this mockery of our salvation.

Thanks alexeleo for that
On the other hand I have this feeling that God allowed the tithe to be to support the gospel work, same way He allowed the Judaizer Christians in the days of Paul. Some people cannot rise beyond a level of thinking.
But the height is LIBERTY. Let every man give as he has purposed in his heart. Not out of compulsion... for God loves a cheerful giver. Let every man be free to give and no one bound into a 10% bondage. In a sense if the church is truly taught what she should know Christians will grow and exceed giving 10% but if the tithe is what U want, then stay limited. that is what I think the divine view is.
Nevertheless let us come higher and stop tithing... or let every do as he is convinced. I, however, have discovered the problem with the church, the limiting effect of the tithe

@Drummaboy,
I read your posts so far and I can see you did not properly understand why you were tithing then and that is why you see it as legalistic and evil. When I grew to know about tithe, in the church I used to attend, it was N10 (Ida mewa). That was the understanding by many people then.

I started tithing as young as I remember in my youth as I had the notion that God has to have a percent of all I got. I understood tithing better afterwards. For your information, faithful tithers give tithe to their local churches, give offerings, help the needy and the poor so your idea that tithe is limiting blessing to 10% is quite unfortunate. In the times of the apostles, people sold their land and brought the proceeds to the feet of the apostles for sharing to all the needy? Have you ever done that before?

I think we should know that some people preach tithe as a do or die and their preaching may be too overzealous but it does not negate the fact that tithe is essential for the work of God.

Giving as you purpose in your heart does not mean that giving tithe is not as is purposed in one's heart. Anything involving giving is not compulsory, afterall Ananias and Saphira were not compelled to give, yet they gave and kept back and were punished for it, it happened in the early church.

For those who give their tithe, they should give it faithfully and not condemn those who don't, for those who do not, then do not condemn those who give. Serving the Lord is not compulsory either that is why we have choice. It is left to you to do according to the word of God you believe.

ANYONE who still teaches tithe for Christians, can you please step forward....TWO MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU PLEASE....from scriptures.

frosbel: Tithing is wrong from all perspectives and is a doctrine of demons.

Enough bible verses have been quoted to debunk this myth and source of greed, scams and outright 419.

As far as we breath , we will fight to free the brethren from this mockery of our salvation.

saying this lie repeatedly doesn't make it true. There is not one single passage in the whole Scriptures that is against tithes.
As usual, you think your salvation is hinged on tithes. i'm out.

Alwaystrue: @Drummaboy,
I read your posts so far and I can see you did not properly understand why you were tithing then and that is why you see it as legalistic and evil. When I grew to know about tithe, in the church I used to attend, it was N10 (Ida mewa). That was the understanding by many people then.

I started tithing as young as I remember in my youth as I had the notion that God has to have a percent of all I got. I understood tithing better afterwards. For your information, faithful tithers give tithe to their local churches, give offerings, help the needy and the poor so your idea that tithe is limiting blessing to 10% is quite unfortunate. In the times of the apostles, people sold their land and brought the proceeds to the feet of the apostles for sharing to all the needy? Have you ever done that before?

I think we should know that some people preach tithe as a do or die and their preaching may be too overzealous but it does not negate the fact that tithe is essential for the work of God.

Giving as you purpose in your heart does not mean that giving tithe is not as is purposed in one's heart. Anything involving giving is not compulsory, afterall Ananias and Saphira were not compelled to give, yet they gave and kept back and were punished for it, it happened in the early church.

For those who give their tithe, they should give it faithfully and not condemn those who don't, for those who do not, then do not condemn those who give. Serving the Lord is not compulsory either that is why we have choice. It is left to you to do according to the word of God you believe.

When something is wrong, it is wrong, tithing is wrong, period.

Image123:
saying this lie repeatedly doesn't make it true. There is not one single passage in the whole Scriptures that is against tithes.
As usual, you think your salvation is hinged on tithes. i'm out.

LIES, there's bible verse that says tithe HAS COME TO AN END! Will you repent if we show you again?

Alwaystrue:
....... but it does not negate the fact that tithe is essential for the work of God.

This is very false statement. If tithe was essential for the work of God, the apostles would have collected tithe. Please don't let anybody deceive you.

frosbel: Tithing is wrong from all perspectives and is a doctrine of demons.

Enough bible verses have been quoted to debunk this myth and source of greed, scams and outright 419.

As far as we breath , we will fight to free the brethren from this mockery of our salvation.

still your personal views as far as am concerned. Nobody has monopoly of bible interpretation except the holy spirit

frosbel: Tithing is wrong from all perspectives and is a doctrine of demons.

I wholly disagree with this - teaching that tithing is mandatory for Christians is wrong, but that's where it ends. Tithing can be legitimately preached as an example or template of giving, or used as a personal discipline to develop the practice of giving regularly.

This complete condemnation does nothing but create divisions in the body of Christ.

DrummaBoy: Thanks alexeleo for that
On the other hand I have this feeling that God allowed the tithe to be to support the gospel work, same way He allowed the Judaizer Christians in the days of Paul. Some people cannot rise beyond a level of thinking.
But the height is LIBERTY. Let every man give as he has purposed in his heart. Not out of compulsion... for God loves a cheerful giver. Let every man be free to give and no one bound into a 10% bondage. In a sense if the church is truly taught what she should know Christians will grow and exceed giving 10% but if the tithe is what U want, then stay limited. that is what I think the divine view is.
Nevertheless let us come higher and stop tithing... or let every do as he is convinced. I, however, have discovered the problem with the church, the limiting effect of the tithe

And of course i agree with giving offering according to how you have. I do that also by God's grace but i cannot agree with condemnation of tithing for any reason since the bible did not condemn it. It is you people that are telling me that it is condemned and not the scriptures. It is also you people that chose to base your argument on the fact that the apostles did not do it yet we are very much aware that there are many things we do now which the apostles did not also do. Are those things sins? NO. If you show me where the bible said we shouldnt tithe then i give up but if it is all these interpretations that you people are giving, my brother, i refuse to take it. Its not convincing enough. It is people that give tithe for the benefit of getting that finds this teaching acceptable, after all you save your money. For me that gives it purely because the scripture says it and its also used for God's work, i dont have need to drop it. neither is dropping it a savings for me. And like i said, am the giver and not the receiver of tithe so its not as if am promoting my source of income.

Image123:
i'm yet to see one passage, one witness speak against tithes in all of Scripture, old and new.

I am yet to see one passage, one witness speak against animal sacrifices in all of Scripture both old and new. Is that valid reason to teach tithing as a mandatory practice for Christians? After all animal sacrifices are also from before the law.

What about the 5 offerings mentioned in Leviticus? Where are they 'spoken against' in scripture?

debosky:

I wholly disagree with this - teaching that tithing is mandatory for Christians is wrong, but that's where it ends. Tithing can be legitimately preached as an example or template of giving, or used as a personal discipline to develop the practice of giving regularly.

This complete condemnation does nothing but create divisions in the body of Christ.

I still maintain that nobody has a monopoly of the complete interpretation of the bible except the Holy Spirit. So for anybody here to come and give outright condemnation to what the bible did not condemn is totally unacceptable to me.

Zikkyy:

This is very false statement. If tithe was essential for the work of God, the apostles would have collected tithe. Please don't let anybody deceive you.

Since the below scriptures are deceit to you, do leave me to do according to God's word that I have mixed with faith. Thanks.

Genesis 14:19-20
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: 20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Hebrews 7:1-2
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Hebrews 7:8-9
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.


Numbers 18:21
21 And, behold, I have given the children of Levi all the tenth in Israel for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

2 Corinthians 31:4-5
4 Moreover he commanded the people that dwelt in Jerusalem to give the portion of the priests and the Levites, that they might be encouraged in the law of the Lord.

5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

I Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

2 Corinthians 11:8
8 I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.

alexleo:

I still maintain that nobody has a monopoly of the complete interpretation of the bible except the Holy Spirit. So for anybody here to come and give outright condemnation to what the bible did not condemn is totally unacceptable to me.

No one is exercising a monopoly here - but your view is a dangerous one which can open the door for an 'anything goes' perspective.

I do not consider teaching tithing as mandatory for Christians because it is not recorded as taught in the biblical record of the early Christians as mandatory. That is not a matter of interpretation in my view.

However, I do agree the Holy Spirit can minister to an individual to give 1,5, 6, 10 or even 20% of his/her income. That is left to the individual and the Holy Spirit.

Also, I have noted the way some posters say that tithe was abolished in Hebrews 7:18. Please go and read again using othe translations especially Amplified or NLT and you will realise what was abolished was the requirement for priesthood Numbers 8:16:

Hebrews 7:11-20
11 So if the priesthood of Levi, on which the law was based, could have achieved the perfection God intended, why did God need to establish a different priesthood, with a priest in the order of Melchizedek instead of the order of Levi and Aaron?

12 And if the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. 13 For the priest we are talking about belongs to a different tribe, whose members have never served at the altar as priests.

14 What I mean is, our Lord came from the tribe of Judah, and Moses never mentioned priests coming from that tribe.

15 This change has been made very clear since a different priest, who is like Melchizedek, has appeared.

16 Jesus became a priest, not by meeting the physical requirement of belonging to the tribe of Levi, but by the power of a life that cannot be destroyed.

17 And the psalmist pointed this out when he prophesied,
“You are a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”

18 Yes, the old requirement about the priesthood was set aside because it was weak and useless.

19 For the law never made anything perfect. But now we have confidence in a better hope, through which we draw near to God.


20 This new system was established with a solemn oath. Aaron’s descendants became priests without such an oath,

Alwaystrue: Also, I have noted the way some posters say that tithe was abolished in Hebrews 7:18. Please go and read again using othe translations especially Amplified or NLT and you will realise what was abolished was the requirement for priesthood Numbers 8:16:

If you abolish the requirement for priesthood, to whom do you give tithes? Where have tithes not been given to a priest? Even Abram's tithe went to a priest did it not?

If, by your assertion, the requirement for a priesthood has been abolished, then it follows logically that those acts associated solely with priesthood are also abolished. Do you agree?

debosky:

I wholly disagree with this - teaching that tithing is mandatory for Christians is wrong, but that's where it ends. Tithing can be legitimately preached as an example or template of giving, or used as a personal discipline to develop the practice of giving regularly.

This complete condemnation does nothing but create divisions in the body of Christ.

always misinterpreting my statements, not sure why

Tithing can preached in the right context of how it was practiced and how it was fulfilled in Christ our Lord.

However, to preach it as a mandatory practice among the brethren is simply and worryingly false.

debosky:

No one is exercising a monopoly here - but your view is a dangerous one which can open the door for an 'anything goes' perspective.

I do not consider teaching tithing as mandatory for Christians because it is not recorded as taught in the biblical record of the early Christians as mandatory. That is not a matter of interpretation in my view.

However, I do agree the Holy Spirit can minister to an individual to give 1,5, 6, 10 or even 20% of his/her income. That is left to the individual and the Holy Spirit.

God bless you for the above highlight. This is what our out tithe brethren need to understand. What i highlighted is what Grace based giving is all about - Give according to how you are blessed and how you purpose in your heart. We do not have a law as per our giving that it MUST be 10% and mandatory. Thank you.

debosky:

If you abolish the requirement for priesthood, to whom do you give tithes? Where have tithes not been given to a priest? Even Abram's tithe went to a priest did it not?

If, by your assertion, the requirement for a priesthood has been abolished, then it follows logically that those acts associated solely with priesthood are also abolished. Do you agree?

Debo, I LOVE YOU SO MUCH MY BROTHER. This people are so blind to biblical truth. I was coming on the Hebrews 7 stuff and just for me to see you answered already. Hebrews 7 made it ETERNALLY CLEAR THAT TITHE IS ABOLISHED WITH THE PRIESTHOOD. They say it is the priesthood that is abolished, but verse 5 of Hebrews 7 says IT IS THE SAME LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD THAT HAVE THE COMMANDMENT TO TAKE TITHE.

Now, if they are claiming or teaching the priesthood is gone, but verse 5 says it is the priesthood that have the right to the tithe, to whom then does the tithe go to, if the same people claim it is ONLY the priesthood that is cancelled? If the priesthood is gone, the tithe is gone. Every Christian is NOW a priest and king unto God. Old Levitical Priesthood that solely have the commandment to take tithe is ABOLISHED SO IS THE TITHE THAT GOES TO THEM.