@Goshen,
Thanks for responding.
Do you know what slander means?
You have just affirmed that quoting you on what you yourself said is now slander. Why ask on another thread, when all issues are being sorted here already whether we accept it not. Afterall discusions on the other thread about Abraham and my response was brought in here so we are still discussing God's word.

Various posters asked you to confirm if what you posted was correct and you answered that in not so many words that:

There is nothing wrong in two consenting unmarried adults having se.xual intercourse together especially if they are committed to marry and that to you is not fornication

Now I simply asked any of your supporters to take the bull by the horn and affirm if it's right or wrong biblically but I have got just one diplomatic, evasive answer so far.
It seems no one wants to touch this and they have better knowledge in tithing (or anti-tithing) and giving than this.


On bestiality you said you don't and the bible does not support bestiality and all you showed to back this up was 'sins as these'. And I simply said it was not stated there so why the quote?
A lot hinges on our understanding of scripture so if simple questions like this cannot generate required answers then what are we talking about? If your supporters cannot engage you on issues like this, then it seems you do all the talking while they do the liking whether or not its correct.
This is for our learning and not fight, we sharpen each other in love and not cults or cliques.

Alwaystrue: @Goshen,
Thanks for responding.
Do you know what slander means?
You have just said that quoting you on what you yourself said is now slander. Why ask on another thread, when all issues are being sorted here already whether we accept it not. Afterll discusions on the other thread about Abrham was brought in here so we are still discussing God's word.

Various posters asked you to confirm if what you posted was correct and you answered that in not so many words that:

There is nothing wrong in two consenting unmarried adults having se.xual intercourse together especially if they are commuted to marry and that is not fornication

Now I simply asked any of your supporters to take the bull by the horn and affirm if it's right or wrong biblically but I have got just one diplomatic evasive answer so far.
It seems no one wants to touch this and they have better knowledge in giving than this.

Okay, I think you wanna learn now. What do you understand by the word 'fornication'? Let's start from there.

Alwaystrue:

On bestiality you said you don't and the bible does not support bestiality and all you showed to back this up was 'sins as these'. And I simply said it was not stated there so why the quote?
A lot hinges on our understsnding of scripture so if simple questions like this cannot generate required answers then what are we talking about? If your supporters cannot engage you issues like this, then it seems you do all the talking while they like whether or not its correct. This is for our learning and not fight, we sharpen each other in love and not cults or cliques.

Okay good, it wasn't clearly stated there. Now, answer this question, did the Apostle named ALL the SINS in the world in those 3 verses I quoted?

^ I'm not fighting you and I cannot fight you. I was only saying, if I said anything based on my study and come out to say what I said, then it is your responsibility to examine whether what I said like the Bereans if it is true or not. If it doesn't fit your maturity in Christian walk, then don't do it because what I don't consider sin, another might consider it sin and if you act against your faith\heart, then it becomes sin for you. That's the whole point of it.

Goshen360: @ Alwaystrue,

Thanks for the slandering. However, lemme make it clear from henceforth, if you don't understand whatever I say or said in the past, I will appreciate you open a thread for me to answer or explain better or better still, give me room like you gave me in this thread to explain what I meant by "Given that..." as earlier said. You took my teachings out of context and slandered on it. Well, if you don't understand the word 'fornication' then you have a responsibility to yourself to study what it means and as used in every context. You people are doing the same thing in this case of tithe - expanding on what is said in scriptures. I do not appreciate when you take this discussion out of context and extend it to previous threads.

2. The scriptures I quoted simply and specifically mentioned 'fornication' in some translations and other translated to be 'se.xually immoral'. You people's problem is, studying takes a lot of digging and you must search it out. Again, if 'fornication' was simply translated as sex.ually immoral and the Greek\Hebrew meaning is 'illicit se.x' and mentioned in that verse I quoted, that is where it remains.

3. I also made it clear that the Apostle NEVER mentioned ALL the SINS in world. Is that too hard for you to understand or you're just out to slander. You are probably yet to understand what sin is. What someone calls sinful, another by his\her knowledge of God's word might not call it sinful. I hope you don't also take this statement out of context. Anything that is not of faith is sin among MANY definitions of sin. Therefore, if the New Testament doesn't mention 'bestiality', and I showed you if it is related to any of the sins mentioned then it fits into the 'others'. What then is it you don't understand?

4. I and many others here believes and as you rightly answered to my question in Acts 15, the it is the 'whole' of the law of Moses that is gone and we cannot just out pick tithe and lay hold on it. The law of Moses WAS NEVER WRITTEN TO THE CHURCH OF CHRIST and you must deal with that. IT WAS WRITTEN TO THE JEWS AND FOR THE JEWS ONLY. The New Testament took effect from Acts and I stand by that word BUT the foundation for the New Testament teachings were in Christ's teachings found in Matthew to John. Also, the whole law of Moses was a shadow and pointing to Christ. Now, that Christ, the reality and the substance had come and will come again, WE NO LONGER NEED THE LAW and I stand by that also.

5. In Christ dwells the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily. No controversy! Come to the Grace and leave the laws of Moses alone because the Grace of Christ is sufficient for you. You're are yet to unloose the MANIFOLD blessings in the New Testament because you're mixing with the law of Moses. Again, they don't redefine each other, they are two poles apart. What you see in the law of Moses is shadows, what you see in Christ and the New testament is REALITY AND SUBSTANCE. I hereby challenge you to leave 'religious' interpretation of scriptures alone, take your bible STUDY, not reading SERIOUS and examine AGAIN everything you've being taught in the confinement of the 'church' and see if they are truth mixed with error. By doing that which I also did and still doing, you will prove yourself and your ministry.

Thank you.

the tithe collectors knows the implication of ur ambush, ie to accept that the law of Moses is abolished means their oil well(tithe) is abolished and thats sulclde, Goshen do u imagine what these ppl rake in every mönth? Its easier to convince the naija police to stop taking bribe than these tithe scammers o.

Goshen360:

Okay, I think you wanna learn now. What do you understand by the word 'fornication'? Let's start from there.

Indeed, Goshen your arrogance is really increasing. So you no longer need to learn yourself right?

I Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.


Fornication is any sexual immorailty outside the bounds of marriage as seen in the scripture above.

Goshen360:
Okay good, it wasn't clearly stated there. Now, answer this question, did the Apostle named ALL the SINS in the world in those 3 verses I quoted?

No he did not mention all the sins. Neither is that the only scripture verse in the bible talking about sins.
Good you showed bestiality was not CLEARLY stated there, waiting for your usual semantics though.

Goshen360: ^ I'm not fighting you and I cannot fight you. I was only saying, if I said anything based on my study and come out to say what I said, then it is your responsibility to examine whether what I said like the Bereans if it is true or not. If it doesn't fit your maturity in Christian walk, then don't do it because what I don't consider sin, another might consider it sin and if you act against your faith\heart, then it becomes sin for you. That's the whole point of it.

Not sin like sexual immorality Goshen. Even the bible say so. So it is not whether you see it as sin or not. This is how lawlessness starts.

@Goshen360

My brother let us be careful and not over analyse scripture, sin is sin.

Sex is only permitted in marriage, anything else is wrong.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the ongoing gist, especially because I was not involved in the initial discussion, just saying we should tread carefully on some subjects.

Please don't take this the wrong way

Why are we now discussing sexu-al sin on this thread? Let's focus on the topic at hand please.

It is disingenuous to bring issues discussed elsewhere to cast aspersions on a viewpoint here. I am not holding brief for Goshen360's views or anyone's for that matter, but do not conflate issues so people do not get confused.

If you want to challenge Goshen's views on other topics please do so on a separate thread.

Alwaystrue:

Indeed, Goshen your arrogance is really increasing. So you no longer need to learn yourself right?

I Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.


Fornication is any sexual immorailty outside the bounds of marriage as seen in the scripture above.

You're in for something real good. I hope you will thank me and give me a good teaching offering after teaching you here. First, lemme tell you something, the Bible was NOT originally written in English. That's why I always go back to the original language to dig it out. You can't do more that that. Every word had their meanings in context. You need to be diligent to STUDY as Apostle Paul told Timothy. If you like, say I'm arrogant, yes, I'm arrogant in the word of God

Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. I Corinthians 7:2

Now, lift that word, fornication and do a word study, then apply its meaning back in the context and you will have a very clear understand of what that verse means, hence the Spirit of the word you often shout about will come alive in you. Here is what you have,

First, I opened the verse here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#top

2. I opened the CONCORDANCE & DICTIONARY here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#conc/2

3. I get the word meaning of fornication here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=KJV and what does it mean? It is the Greek word porneia and you also get the ROOT WORD or MEANING from porneuō. You have the resources with you, kindly do study yourself also.

1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Now, fornication has two meanings as you can see and NOTHING more than that in every scriptures. By inference, in the context of I Corinthians 7:2, we know it's talking about the FIRST definition from the word study and it simply says it means ILLICIT SEX.UAL INTERCOURSE. Now, it went further to break down this 'illicit se.xual intercourse', take ALL those definitions and apply back to the context of I Corinthians 7:2, you have what that verse says here:

Nevertheless, to avoid a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12 let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

You can even SEE CLEARLY from our word study, bestiality is also FORNICATION and you've been ranting all over this thread that bestiality wasn't mentioned in the New Testament. Again, it is you religious & law of Moses keeping people that EXPANDED the meaning of fornication. What I found out is what I said and that's what the Greek means. I don't go beyond that. STUDY to show yourself approved unto God! People might see me as heretic but I don't care, many times, we have ONLY believed what tradition had handed down to us and didn't bother to examine them. The time has come to lay every traditional or church teachings to the lens of the word of God and examine them proper and that's what I made up my mind to do hence, I will be teachings men's tradition to God's people thinking I'm teaching the truth.

Goshen360:

You're in for something real good. I hope you will thank me and give me a good teaching offering after teaching you here. First, lemme tell you. The Bible was NOT originally written in English. That's why I always go back to the original language to dig it out. You can't do more that that. Every word had their meanings in context. You need to be diligent to STUDY as Apostle Paul told Timothy. If you like, say I'm arrogant, yes, I'm arrogant in the word of God

Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. I Corinthians 7:2

Now, lift that word, fornication and do a word study, then apply it back in the context. Here is what you have,

First, I opened the verse here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#top

2. I opened the CONCORDANCE & DICTIONARY here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#conc/2

3. I get the word meaning of fornication here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=KJV and what does it mean? It is the Greek word porneia and you also get the ROOT WORD or MEANING from porneuō. You have the resources with you, kindly do study yourself also.

1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Now, fornication has two meanings as you can see and NOTHING more than that in every scriptures. By inference, in the context of I Corinthians 7:2, we know it's talking about the FIRST definition from the word study and it simply says it means ILLICIT SEX.UAL INTERCOURSE. Now, it went further to break down this 'illicit se.xual intercourse', take ALL those definition and apply it in context, you have what that verse says here:

Nevertheless, to avoid a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12 let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

You can even say from our word study, bestiality is also FORNICATION and you've been ranting all over this thread it wasn't mentioned in the New Testament. Again, it is you people that EXPANDED the meaning of fornication. What I found out is what I said and that's what the Greek means. I don't go beyond that. STUDY to show yourself approved unto God! People might see me as heretic but I don't care, many times, we have ONLY believed what tradition had handed down to us and didn't bother to examine them. The time has come to lay every traditional or church teachings to the lens of the word of God and examine them proper and that's what I made up my mind to do hence, I will be teachings men's tradition to God's people thinking I'm teaching the truth.

Thanks, now I understand

debosky: Why are we now discussing sexu-al sin on this thread? Let's focus on the topic at hand please.

It is disingenuous to bring issues discussed elsewhere to cast aspersions on a viewpoint here. I am not holding brief for Goshen360's views or anyone's for that matter, but do not conflate issues so people do not get confused.

If you want to challenge Goshen's views on other topics please do so on a separate thread.

Debo, if you noticed was the same thing someone did to me when I challenged Obadiah777's post and I know where all these things are coming from. I forgot the guy's name or I.D and he was on me and Frosbel then when we challenged Obadiah777 ended up drawing me back to the former thread where we talked about fornication. They suddenly turned tithe thread into sex.uality thread and wants to use it as a slander. The same thing they did at that Obadiah777's thread too. Well, I will defend what I said and if anyone doesn't understand what I understood, let them go do any study for themselves.

Goshen360:

Debo, if you noticed was the same thing someone did to me when I challenged Obadiah777's post and I know where all these things are coming from. I forgot the guy's name or I.D and he was on me and Frosbel then when we challenged Obadiah777 ended up drawing me back to the former thread where we talked about fornication. They suddenly turned tithe thread into sex.uality thread and wants to use it as a slander. The same thing they did at that Obadiah777's thread too. Well, I will defend what I said and if anyone doesn't understand what I understood, let them go do any study for themselves.

Indeed, I was actually not aware of the other question hence my initial amazement.

But the false prophets are losing the battle and can only now resort to slander to deflect further exposition of truth.

@ Frosbel,

Well, you know me too well and I'm not after everything in skirt. You & I have spoken many times outside this forum. The truth remains the truth, it can hurt our human ideology as it were. If they don't understand what 'fornication' means, then it is their responsibility to go learn. There's too much of 'traditional' and 'churchianity' interpretation of scriptures. If I sound heretic, then people should do same study I took out time to do and then find out for themselves. Well all know the original Bible wasn't written in English; it from translated from Hebrew\Greek. It is religion that expanded the meaning of somethings. Go and do likewise, go study 'fornication' and maybe, they will end up calling you heretic also.

Goshen360:

You're in for something real good. I hope you will thank me and give me a good teaching offering after teaching you here. First, lemme tell you. The Bible was NOT originally written in English. That's why I always go back to the original language to dig it out. You can't do more that that. Every word had their meanings in context. You need to be diligent to STUDY as Apostle Paul told Timothy. If you like, say I'm arrogant, yes, I'm arrogant in the word of God

Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. I Corinthians 7:2

Now, lift that word, fornication and do a word study, then apply it back in the context. Here is what you have,

First, I opened the verse here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#top

2. I opened the CONCORDANCE & DICTIONARY here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#conc/2

3. I get the word meaning of fornication here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=KJV and what does it mean? It is the Greek word porneia and you also get the ROOT WORD or MEANING from porneuō. You have the resources with you, kindly do study yourself also.

1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Now, fornication has two meanings as you can see and NOTHING more than that in every scriptures. By inference, in the context of I Corinthians 7:2, we know it's talking about the FIRST definition from the word study and it simply says it means ILLICIT SEX.UAL INTERCOURSE. Now, it went further to break down this 'illicit se.xual intercourse', take ALL those definition and apply it in context, you have what that verse says here:

Nevertheless, to avoid a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12 let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

You can even say from our word study, bestiality is also FORNICATION and you've been ranting all over this thread it wasn't mentioned in the New Testament. Again, it is you people that EXPANDED the meaning of fornication. What I found out is what I said and that's what the Greek means. I don't go beyond that. STUDY to show yourself approved unto God! People might see me as heretic but I don't care, many times, we have ONLY believed what tradition had handed down to us and didn't bother to examine them. The time has come to lay every traditional or church teachings to the lens of the word of God and examine them proper and that's what I made up my mind to do hence, I will be teachings men's tradition to God's people thinking I'm teaching the truth.

Nice try. Actually you pre-empted me, the scripture I posted above was exactly what I expected you to state when I asked you to quote where bestiality was stated as a sin but you instead had to open concordance to get it.
See why my question has made you provide a more appropriate answer?

As Frosbel, who took the bull by the horns to advice you to thread carefully before you answer.

We would not be talking about sexual sin/immorality if everyone had sexual relations only with their wife or husband so bestiality, adultery and any other sexual sin will not even come into play. This was what I was waiting for.

However you still did not answer the question I asked and since others are afraid to answer, please answer now so everyone can know their stance as you did not touch on this.

Based on the bible:

'Any unmarried man and woman who consent and decide to have sex with each other since they plan to marry, are they planning to sin by being intimate before the marriage or not'

Do remember your prior answer on other thread to this and carefully answer now without semantics.

Please a yes or no is all I need.

^ The answer to your question is NO, that is NOT fornication.


You will need to show us\me that fornication is sex.ual intercourse between 'unmarried people who are to marry each other'. I have given you the meaning of fornication and it doesn't extend to two people (male & female) who wants to marry themselves, committed to marrying themselves. That's what you're still not getting, you're extending the meaning. And please, feel free to quote me also.

Alwaystrue:
However you still did not answer the question I asked and since others are afraid to answer, please answer now so everyone can know their stance as you did not touch on this.

Based on the bible:

'Any unmarried man and woman who consent and decide to have sex with each other since they plan to marry, are they planning to sin by being intimate before the marriage or not'

Do remember your prior answer on other thread to this and carefully answer now without semantics.

Please a yes or no is all I need.

Goshen360: ^ The answer to your question is NO, that is NOT fornication.


You will need to show us\me that fornication is sex.ual intercourse between 'unmarried people who are to marry each other'. I have given you the meaning of fornication and it doesn't extend to people who wants to marry themselves, committed to marrying themselves.

Thank you very much. I will post your respose tomorrow.
Good night.

^ I will be here sir ^ Thank you and good night

Alwaystrue:

Was it not you that said on a thread that two unmarried adults who consent to a sexual act can go ahead and sleep together as it is not fornication? To Goshen, that is not a sexual sin nor a 'sin such as these?'
You left that and jumped to bestiality.
Speechless.

what? na wa oh. Gosh, take it easy oh please.

Alwaystrue: Possibly a lot of people here have been wondering where my questions to Goshen are leading to as I asked questions ranging from circumcision to bestiality.

Now Goshen, the beloved of the anti-tithe crew believes that Christians have nothing to do with the law, infact he says the church should follow eveything from the book of Acts to Revelation forgetting that Jesus brought grace and truth of that law.

If people obey the simple law of God that then shall a man leave his father and mother and cling to his wife since he made man male and female, they will become one flesh. There is no room for bestiality when one has s.exual intercouse with only one's spouse. Even the law endorses and bears it witness. Paul referenced the law often but those holier than others won't touch it with a long pole.

However, Goshen here believes that you need not be married to enjoy this act specially meant for the married. Infact he says it is not sin and this is not fornication because fornication is illicit sex hence, sleeping with someone else's daughter or son when they have not been given in marriage (as long as they have consented) is not illicit.
And I know all those in support of Goshen will see nothing wrong in this as their 'pastor' does no wrong.

Any objective eye will see that the anti-tithe crew do not find fault in their heretic teachings amongst themselves, they do not correct themselves or pat each other Backs even when wrong and anyone who is against tithe even atheist are their brothers and friends.

Thank you.

I dont know why you brought those ^ up now, but fornication is a seriouse sin and fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom the bible says.

Fornication = Gross sexual misconduct and it covers all aspect of ilicit sex = porneia.

The Greek word porneia that fornication is drawn from has the sense of giving one self to lust or lewdness/debauchery, incest, bestiality, adultery, unmarried sex. Abused of Sex from God's stand point as recorded in his word = fornication. Unrestrained sex.
Matt.5:32, 19:9. 1Cor.6:9. Lev.20:10,13,16;
Romans1:24,26,27,32. Mark7:21,22. Etc.


also porneuo = ponography(lexicon of the greek language)

fornication = sinning Against ones body, every other sin is outside ones body.(sex)


If someone has his own view does not mean i agreed with it.

Besides, fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom.

Peace.

garyarnold:

My expertise is tithing and giving, and I will limit my comments accordingly.

hahahahahaha, wetin we no go hear for nl?

Please pardon me, you guys, for butting in. I'm quite curious and concerned about my brother Goshen's stand on this matter of fornication. So I've made a thread to offer him a platform to explain.

If it suits you guys, @Alwaystrue and my brothers and sisters here, please join me and Bro Goshen at https://www.nairaland.com/1244999/brother-goshen-please-explain-stand#15052728 for the discussion.

My brother, I earnestly hope you're disposed to having such a discussion with me.

frosbel: @Goshen360



Please don't take this the wrong way

hahahahaha, gosh you don turn chairman oh

Goshen360: ^ The answer to your question is NO, that is NOT fornication.


You will need to show us\me that fornication is sex.ual intercourse between 'unmarried people who are to marry each other'. I have given you the meaning of fornication and it doesn't extend to two people (male & female) who wants to marry themselves, committed to marrying themselves. That's what you're still not getting, you're extending the meaning. And please, feel free to quote me also.

Sex befor marriage is a sin!

Dont push this!

In Israel, sex between two unmarried person called for stoning to death.

A woman after marriage that was found not to be a virgin was to be stone to death.

And that ^ is sinning against "ones body".

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18).
.................................
^^^

premarital sex is a sin against one body also.
unmarried people>
See:

"What? know ye not that he that is joined to an harlot is one body? for the two, said he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." (1 Corinthians 6:16-17).
..............................

^^ unmarried.

In israel unmarried sex are to be put to death when caught.
Peace

Once a man sleeps with a woman in israel he must marry her:

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt." (Deuteronomy 22:28-30).
.................................................

With that there was no room to sleep with different partners as is done today in the name of marriage as is common today.

The christian does well to ensure marriage. How?
By starting out with sex?

What if the engagement should fail?
See:

(Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

That ^ is God's standard on the matter.

truthislight: Once a man sleeps with a woman in israel he must marry her:

"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. A man shall not take his father’s wife, nor discover his father’s skirt." (Deuteronomy 22:28-30).
.................................................

With that there was no room to sleep with different partners as is done today in the name of marriage as is common today.

The christian does well to ensure marriage. How?
By starting out with sex?

What if the engagement should fail?
See:

(Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

"If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the LovePeddler in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:13-21).

That ^ is God's standard on the matter.

You are quoting the OT...according to our dear oga gosh..the OT has been done away with...why quote it for him.

Bidam:

You are quoting the OT...according to our dear oga gosh..the OT has been done away with...why quote it for him.

Sharrap hypocrite! I thought you said you're done with this thread. Leave truthislight alone and I WILL ANSWER FOR MYSELF AND YES, THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES IS DONE AWAY WITH. Do you have problem with that?

Goshen360:

Sharrap hypocrite! I thought you said you're done with this thread. Leave truthislight alone and I WILL ANSWER FOR MYSELF AND YES, THE OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES IS DONE AWAY WITH. Do you have problem with that?

chei! Bros blood dey boil sha..ok no vex...am saying it with every fibre of humility bestowed on me by Christ Jesus..Am sorry if i make you angry by my post above...blessed is whosoever is not offended in me.

@All, good morning. Wishing you a fulfilling and purposeful day.

A new thread has been created for this but I will answer briefly here and go to the thread where Goshen has said we need the strong's concordance to answer a simple biblical question whose answer is staring us all in the face.

I will start my introduction here from the bible then let us go ahead to the thread ihenodobi created.

You will now see and understand why the letter indeed killeth but the spirit giveth life:

I Corinthians 7:1-2, 8-9, 36-38
1 Now regarding the questions you asked in your letter. Yes, it is good to abstain from sexual relations.

2 But because there is so much sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband.

8  So I say to those who aren’t married and to widows—it’s better to stay unmarried, just as I am.

9 But if they can’t control themselves, they should go ahead and marry. It’s better to marry than to burn with lust.

36 But if a man thinks that he’s treating his fiancée improperly and will inevitably give in to his passion, let him marry her as he wishes. It is not a sin.

37 But if he has decided firmly not to marry and there is no urgency and he can control his passion, he does well not to marry.

38 So the person who marries his fiancée does well, and the person who doesn’t marry does even better.


Fornication from this simple definition means sex outside the bounds of marriage.

The burden of proof is on Goshen to tell us what <planning to marry> and <commitment to marry> means in this context. See how man rationalised the word of God?
The law too confirmed this with penalties just as truthislight said.

I will return to continue.

Bidam: You are quoting the OT...according to our dear oga gosh..the OT has been done away with...why quote it for him.

Fornication has not been done away with.

This are things that constitute fornication befor God.

Fornication is a large word that covers a large sense of sex abuse from God's stand point.

The writers of the NT are Jews, so they know what constitute sex.ual abuse = fornication.

truthislight:

Sex befor marriage is a sin!

Dont push this!

In Israel, sex between two unmarried person called for stoning to death.

A woman after marriage that was found not to be a virgin was to be stone to death.

And that ^ is sinning against "ones body".

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." (1 Corinthians 6:18).
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^^^

premarital sex is a sin against one body also.
unmarried people>
See:

"What? know ye not that he that is joined to an harlot is one body? for the two, said he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." (1 Corinthians 6:16-17).
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^^ unmarried.

In israel unmarried sex are to be put to death when caught.
Peace

who is considered a harlot/who.re in Israel?:

"Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the wh.ore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:21).

So, with that ^, premarital sex was unacceptable.

It is not what we think, but how yahweh looks at it.

Goshen360:

You're in for something real good. I hope you will thank me and give me a good teaching offering after teaching you here. First, lemme tell you something, the Bible was NOT originally written in English. That's why I always go back to the original language to dig it out. You can't do more that that. Every word had their meanings in context. You need to be diligent to STUDY as Apostle Paul told Timothy. If you like, say I'm arrogant, yes, I'm arrogant in the word of God

Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. I Corinthians 7:2

Now, lift that word, fornication and do a word study, then apply its meaning back in the context and you will have a very clear understand of what that verse means, hence the Spirit of the word you often shout about will come alive in you. Here is what you have,

First, I opened the verse here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#top

2. I opened the CONCORDANCE & DICTIONARY here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Cr&c=7&v=2&t=KJV#conc/2

3. I get the word meaning of fornication here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4202&t=KJV and what does it mean? It is the Greek word porneia and you also get the ROOT WORD or MEANING from porneuō. You have the resources with you, kindly do study yourself also.

1) illicit sexual intercourse
a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

2) metaph. the worship of idols
a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Now, fornication has two meanings as you can see and NOTHING more than that in every scriptures. By inference, in the context of I Corinthians 7:2, we know it's talking about the FIRST definition from the word study and it simply says it means ILLICIT SEX.UAL INTERCOURSE. Now, it went further to break down this 'illicit se.xual intercourse', take ALL those definitions and apply back to the context of I Corinthians 7:2, you have what that verse says here:

Nevertheless, to avoid a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18. c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12 let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

You can even SEE CLEARLY from our word study, bestiality is also FORNICATION and you've been ranting all over this thread that bestiality wasn't mentioned in the New Testament. Again, it is you religious & law of Moses keeping people that EXPANDED the meaning of fornication. What I found out is what I said and that's what the Greek means. I don't go beyond that. STUDY to show yourself approved unto God! People might see me as heretic but I don't care, many times, we have ONLY believed what tradition had handed down to us and didn't bother to examine them. The time has come to lay every traditional or church teachings to the lens of the word of God and examine them proper and that's what I made up my mind to do hence, I will be teachings men's tradition to God's people thinking I'm teaching the truth.

As Goshen360 will say, I am Christ'semmbassey. And I ENDORSE this message 100%. But you did not do the above with my thread on christian abraham is not your father, infact that thread was aimed @ you and not these other shadow boxers, i needed something to engage u since many ppl errornously think anything an antitither write odas will support. One day na one day e go b -'Christ'semmbassey vs Goshen360, that will b the day i go no whether u b winch or whether Holy Spirit dey SPY me 4u.. For now, some ppl think because they know how to read and write, they can interpret scripture, guys you need to do what Goshen has stated above, not gnostically but SPIRITUALLY, odawise u'd be like the Ethiopian eunoc b4 Philip met him. Peace.

This is the sense in which the word fornication is use in the bible:

truthislight:
fornication is a seriouse sin and fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom the bible says.

Fornication = Gross sexual misconduct and it covers all aspect of ilicit sex = porneia.

The Greek word porneia that fornication is drawn from has the sense of giving one self to lust or lewdness/debauchery, incest, bestiality, adultery, unmarried sex. Abused of Sex from God's stand point as recorded in his word = fornication. Unrestrained sex.
Matt.5:32, 19:9. 1Cor.6:9. Lev.20:10,13,16;
Romans1:24,26,27,32. Mark7:21,22. Etc.


also porneuo = ponography(lexicon of the greek language)

this ^ reminds one of when Jesus said that any that keeps on looking at a woman as to have passion for her has committed fornication already with her in his heart


fornication = sinning Against ones body, every other sin is outside ones body.(sex)


If someone has his own view does not mean i agreed with it.

Besides, fornicators will not inherit God's kingdom.

Peace.

If mere looking at a woman as to develop a passion for her means to commit fornication, how can the actual s.ex without marriage not be a sin?

You are on your own.