@debosky

I'm a warrior, in a manner of speaking. I do not put down the Sword lightly. To answer you anymore will mean that I will take this as far as you are able to go. Legally speaking, I have a far stronger case than you do. I know all the arguments you have. I have made them myself. I can run circles around them and in the end the best any opponent can do is accuse me of sophistry and trickery without actually succeeding at faulting my arguments.

I'm not asking you to stop o. I'm just expressing my heart to you. With brethren who are learning with me in this journey with the Lord, I do not demand quick compromise. But it is easy to go from trying to learn to full-blown warfare and your responses are calling to the warrior in me. It's that warrior that I reserve for enemies of the Cross, not because they must be destroyed but because it is good sometimes to show a man what he is fighting when he presumes to speak above his station.

So I will take some time to see how the Lord leads me to play this. I don't think I'll be able to continue without going on full offensive, but who knows, perhaps the Lord knows a way. And perhaps I don't need to at all.

Ihedinobi: @debosky
I'm a warrior, in a manner of speaking. I do not put down the Sword lightly. To answer you anymore will mean that I will take this as far as you are able to go.

Hehehe. . . . I am a warrior as well - not sure what you mean by ‘as far as you are able to go’ though.

Legally speaking, I have a far stronger case than you do. I know all the arguments you have. I have made them myself. I can run circles around them and in the end the best any opponent can do is accuse me of sophistry and trickery without actually succeeding at faulting my arguments.

You don’t have a stronger case, I’m afraid. What you can do (and have done to an extent) is engage in creating ‘ifs’ and hypothetical arguments seemingly for the sake of it - and I have sought to call you out on that. Furthermore, that I have chosen to oblige thus far is no indication that I am wholly amenable to this line of inquiry.

I prefer a direct and straight to the point approach but - in this instance anyway - you seem to prefer a circuitous route. The reason for this remains unclear at this point.

I'm not asking you to stop o. I'm just expressing my heart to you. With brethren who are learning with me in this journey with the Lord, I do not demand quick compromise. But it is easy to go from trying to learn to full-blown warfare and your responses are calling to the warrior in me. It's that warrior that I reserve for enemies of the Cross, not because they must be destroyed but because it is good sometimes to show a man what he is fighting when he presumes to speak above his station.

Fair enough brother. If I am indeed calling to the warrior, understand it is not by choice but out of necessity based on your responses thus far. I have tried on more than one occasion to ‘row-back’ as it were to where we started, but you seem(ed?) intent on persisting with your current line of inquiry.

So I will take some time to see how the Lord leads me to play this. I don't think I'll be able to continue without going on full offensive, but who knows, perhaps the Lord knows a way. And perhaps I don't need to at all.

It is also my desire to be led by the Lord in this - if you do feel the need to go ‘on full offensive’ or some other approach, maybe it would be better done on a separate thread so we can have a coherent discussion with clearly understood boundaries.

Whether una draw battle line or not, with either pencil or permanent marker, all I know is, at the end, it will be very visible who is right... So let' just wait till the end of time

Joagbaje:
Tithe topic is a distraction. It should be avoided . Those who argue against tithes mostly don't really have a local church or a pastor over them. The problem with them is bigger that tithe . It's about their life and spiritual authority

i am a pastor, i minister to ppl in our local assembly and crusades but I DO NOT COLLECT TITHE, BC THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD THAT WAS COMMANDED TO COLLECT TITHES FROM THE JEWS WAS ABOLISHED BY THE PRIERTHOOD OF JESUS. CHRISTIANS ARE NOT COMMANDED TO PAY TITHE. that was why none of the apostles, namely, Peter, John, Paul etc, demanded or collected tithes. Christians can not pay tithe bc we are all priests(rev1:6, 1Peter2::9-)Priests dont pay tithes. The collections/donations made at every gathering and personal gifts is enough to take care of ministers, and again there is no place where the bible says that pastors should not work. Some pastors today, sell tapes/cd, books, prayers, deliverance, mantles, oil, water,establish schools, organise seminars, prophesy for a fee, doing contracts, some have shops and investments in most public quoted coys etc etc etc . Lets stop this day light robbery called tithe payment in the church of Jesus. There is NO PLACE IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE, EVEN IN THE OT WHERE CHRISTIANS ARE COMMANDED, ADVICED, DIRECTED, ADMONISHED, beged, gleaded OR EXHULTED TO PAY 10% OF THEIR EARNINGS EVERY END OF THE MONTH. Pls if some one has seen kindly draw my attention. All these talk about types/shadows, Jeses as Moses, Aeron, Melchizedeck, Law, principles, Abraham etc etc etc will not undo what Jesus did at the cross to restore man to his original position as God intended and promised in Gen 3:15,where man like Adam and Eve b4 the fall does not need to tithe, sacrifice, sow seeds, pay 1st fruits, pray, fast etc but is blessed and free to be fruitfull and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it and have dominion over other creations gen 1:27.. Tithe is the foothold of satan in the church, lets shake it off. God bless.

frosbel: Galatians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

From the above scriptures, we can conclude that all preachers of mandatory tithing for believers are indeed cursed.

@debosky

Ok, beloved brother. It will be a new thread then.

I use "if's" and hypotheticals to call my opposite's attention to possibilities they may have ignored or failed to account for in their argument. Sometimes, my objections to their argument are contained in the hypotheticals, sometimes they're just a friendly indication that their arguments are weak which in itself means that they did not think the issue through. And the fact that they did not casts doubt on their argument.

So hypotheticals are not necessarily my own position on the issue, they're an examination of the opposite's case.

That being so, you'll probably see me use it more because in argument, what we do is table our respective positions and compare them by examination. Ideally, at the end, the truth will be precipitated. This truth may be neither of the conflicting positions although each side may possess bits of it or it may be one of them. That's why I try to listen to what the other side is saying and ask questions more when I realize that they'd rather talk and hear their own side of things.

Well, I'll get back to you when I make that thread. It will not necessarily continue what we started here. It'll probably take a wholistic view of the debate, looking at the issue of the Old Covenant versus the New. From there we can deal with specific issues like the "tithing" that we have been discussing and I may restrict participation to just us for sanity and coherence.

Have a blessed day, my brother.

^In other words you move the argument to a new thread: May I suggest possible titles

Ihedinobi vs. Debosky
TITHE: the Final Showdown down
The Last Argument on Tithe in NL
To tithe or Not To Tithe: Ihedinobi vs. Debosky

Etc

Lol!!!

I look fwd to it and U may return here to inform those following these thread that argument don' Change address!

^^

Instigator.

frosbel: Galatians 3:10
King James Version (KJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

I can't speak for every tithe advocate but, based on his posts, Image123 does not fall into the category of those who 'are of the works of the law' or to put it differently, those seeking justification by the law.

Image123: But remember, giving tithes or no is not what makes us acceptable to God or qualifies anyone as christians or no. It is Jesus and living faith in Him.

^^^

bottom line, preaching the tithe as mandatory to the church is bringing the people back under the LAW which attracts a curse..

There is no penalty , curse or punishment for not paying the tithe.

Matthew 23:23
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

This are the words of Jesus himself very straightforward without complications. I'd rather follow the Master who said :"John 12:49-50
49 I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it.
50 And I know his commands lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say." than all these lies about whether tithing is new testament or not.That is my contribution. Stay blessed.

Bidam:
Matthew 23:23
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things.

This are the words of Jesus himself very straightforward without complications. I'd rather follow the Master who said :"John 12:49-50
49 I don't speak on my own authority. The Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to say it.
50 And I know his commands lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say." than all these lies about whether tithing is new testament or not.That is my contribution. Stay blessed.

Stop confusing yourself. Jesus was speaking to the Jews of his time who practiced tithing because there was a Levitical Priesthood at that time.. Are you a Jew? Is there any Levitical Priesthood in existence? Even adherents of Orthodox Judaism living in today's Israel do not tithe as there is no need for it.

nep2ra:


Stop confusing yourself. Jesus was speaking to the Jews of his time who practiced tithing because there was a Levitical Priesthood at that time.. Are you a Jew? Is there any Levitical Priesthood in existence? Even adherents of Orthodox Judaism living in today's Israel do not tithe as there is no need for it.

Stop being deceived Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth and we are to hear him (Matt. 28: 18; 17: 5) not only JEWS but the whole world cos He created them.

nep2ra:


Stop confusing yourself. Jesus was speaking to the Jews of his time who practiced tithing because there was a Levitical Priesthood at that time.. Are you a Jew? Is there any Levitical Priesthood in existence? Even adherents of Orthodox Judaism living in today's Israel do not tithe as there is no need for it.

Don't mind the rogue, he knows the truth you just wrote here but his love for filthy lucre and defrauding believers of their money would always make him continue to misrepresent scriptures to suit his evil agenda.

Pastor Kun:

Don't mind the rogue, he knows the truth you just wrote here but his love for filthy lucre and defrauding believers of their money would always make him continue to misrepresent scriptures to suit his evil agenda.

its a pity that our prophet want to b like the proverbial fly who will never hear until e follow dead body enter grave, bros Bidam, tithe na dead body o, a word is enof only to the wise.

Bidam: Stop being deceived Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth and we are to hear him (Matt. 28: 18; 17: 5) not only JEWS but the whole world cos He created them.

what is the meaning of this na, Why would anyone just want to be a hardened liar, So every statement made by Christ was universal and had no specific audience?

Bidam: Stop being deceived Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth and we are to hear him (Matt. 28: 18; 17: 5) not only JEWS but the whole world cos He created them.

smh..

Candour:

God bless you my sister.we all dont know by ourselves but we must trust the bible to tell us.i expected our discussants here to treat your queries,but so far they've skipped it most likely due to an oversight.



The tribe of Levi,the 3rd son of Jacob were consecrated to do the service.Num 8:6,11, Num 18:1-2


Yes.The levites received Tithes( Num 18:21,24) because they were exempted from having inheritance in the land(Num 18:23).The Levites then paid a Tithe from the Tithe they received from the Isrealites to the priests who were also Levites but from the family of Aaron(Num 18:26-28,Neh 10:38)



Yes.That is where God chose for isreal to seek him(Deut 12:5-7)



Yes.Deut 12:5-7,Deut 14:23,25



Yes.Phil 3:5



I dont know either but we can both agree it wasn't Levi



you are right sister.He did as he didn't want the Jews to think he had stopped being a Jew.He only knew those rituals had no power to save him.He was also heeding James's advice in Acts 21:20-26 so that peace could reign @ Jerusalem



Yes he did



There would have been more than an uproar.they might have been stoned to death or scourged pitifully.everybody knows the Jews dont play with the Torah



i hope i tried answering your inquiries



pls go ahead with your research dear sister,you'll discover like i did that TITHES are no longer Paid in Jerusalem today as there's no functioning priesthood due to the destruction of the temple.

Thank you

Thank u so much for taking the time to clarify raised points. Interesting what wikipedia.org says on tithe. Found out DAT tithing was also used in historic England.
Brethren, if there is anything I have learned while following this thread, it is dat the powers dat be are so so good at 'no retreat no surrender'. GOD is a GOD of order. Please GOD bring us to the knowledge of ur truth. Shalom

@ Debosky,

Job well done. That statement I made is a military terms meaning what it says. Handle them severely is the meaning. You do well.

Bidam: Stop being deceived Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth and we are to hear him (Matt. 28: 18; 17: 5) not only JEWS but the whole world cos He created them.

Despite the education and glaring facts given to you regarding the issue of tithing, you have wilfully and mischievously chosen to remain in the cesspit of your ignorance. You have shown by your comment how unlearned you truly are when it comes to in-depth Bible study. Your foundation is weak. I implore you to desist from further arguments on tithing because doing so will cause you great embarrassment.

Pastor Kun:

Don't mind the rogue, he knows the truth you just wrote here but his love for filthy lucre and defrauding believers of their money would always make him continue to misrepresent scriptures to suit his evil agenda.

A rogue is the most befitting title you can give to men of his ilk. Scavengers who like nothing more than to exploit the gullibility of the unfortunate ignorant.

frosbel: ^^^

bottom line, preaching the tithe as mandatory to the church is bringing the people back under the LAW which attracts a curse..

I agree that preaching tithe as mandatory is wrong, however I do not consider such teaching as necessarily a call to bring people back under the law. To be clear - you only bring people back under the law if you preach tithing as a requirement for justification/salvation.

There is no penalty , curse or punishment for not paying the tithe.

We are in agreement on this.

Pastor Kun:

Don't mind the rogue, he knows the truth you just wrote here but his love for filthy lucre and defrauding believers of their money would always make him continue to misrepresent scriptures to suit his evil agenda.

"Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat(bread) which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. " (John 6:26-27).

Let them keep struggling for tithes.

"Bread that perished" is what they are after, they are not attracted to the other message of christ that leads to eternal life.

They think christ is foolish!

Smh for over emphasis on money and Tithe.

Why cant they love christ for who he is?

truthislight:

"Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat(bread) which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. " (John 6:26-27).

Let them keep struggling for tithes.

"Bread that perished" is what they are after, they are not attracted to the other message of christ that leads to eternal life.

They think christ is foolish!

Smh for over emphasis on money and Tithe.

Why cant they love christ for who he is?

SUCCINT!!!

truthislight:

"Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. Labour not for the meat(bread) which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. " (John 6:26-27).

Let them keep struggling for tithes.

"Bread that perished" is what they are after, they are not attracted to the other message of christ that leads to eternal life.

They think christ is foolish!

Smh for over emphasis on money and Tithe.

Why cant they love christ for who he is?

remove tithe, sowing of seeds, 1st fruits, monthly/yrly harvest and other money grabing technics more than 95% of pastors will close down their coys(churches). Today we've 4goten whether Jesus is coming back or not, everything is money, money, money. I wonder whether they were called to preach naira.

debosky:
I agree that preaching tithe as mandatory is wrong, however I do not consider such teaching as necessarily a call to bring people back under the law. To be clear - you only bring people back under the law if you preach tithing as a requirement for justification/salvation.

It will amount to bringing people back under the law if you teach tithe based on Leviticus, Numbers and Malachi.

TITHE WAS FIRST PAID BY ABRAHAM TO THE KING OF SALEM,LEVITICUS TOLD US HOW TO PAY IT CORRECTLY,MALACHI CROWNED IT ALL,MORE OVER PEOPLE LIKE U IS JUST LOOKING FOR POPULARITY,

KwoiZabo: TITHE WAS FIRST PAID BY ABRAHAM TO THE KING OF SALEM,LEVITICUS TOLD US HOW TO PAY IT CORRECTLY,MALACHI CROWNED IT ALL,MORE OVER PEOPLE LIKE U IS JUST LOOKING FOR POPULARITY,

Wetin dis one dey talk?

Another half-baked Bible Scholar on the loose. Sit down and let me educate you some:

Abraham gave a tithe of the spoils of war. He did this once and for all and not monthly as your thieving pastors would have you believe.


Here is an account below:

[b]After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him, the king of Sodom came out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley).

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying,

‘Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.’

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

The king of Sodom said to Abram, ‘Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.’

But Abram said to the king of Sodom, ‘With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, “I made Abram rich.” I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me – to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.’ ~ Genesis 14:17-24 NIV
[/b]

Leviticus told you how to pay it correctly?!! Am I reading right? Ok, since you want to go down that line, I will oblige you. Tithes were given to the tribe of Levi who served as priests in the Temple because they had no inheritance in the Promised Land. Eleven tribes were given choice lands to do as they wished excluding the tribe of Levi. These tithes were given once a year and they were agricultural produce. Is your pastor a Jew from the tribe of Levi? I see you are one of those who failed to read the topic and conduct diligent research concerning this issue. Here is an excerpt from the topic. Read and conduct your own research:



According to the Law of Moses, the tithe was divided into three allocations. The first year, it was given to the Levite. The second year, it was given to widows, orphans and the poor. The third year, it was eaten in the company of the faithful before the Lord as thanksgiving for his faithfulness. (Deuteronomy 14:22-28). In the seventh year, there was no planting and no reaping and therefore no tithing.

So the next time your pastor asks you to pay tithe, ask him about the seventh-year reprieve. Also ask him if you can give your tithe to the orphanage, or bring it as food items to be eaten in church. Believe me; he will not agree with you because it is your money he is after.

...if Jews no longer tithe because the Levites are a lost tribe, how can Christian pastors collect tithes when we are not even Jewish, how much more Levites? If Jewish rabbis, whose terms of reference remain the Old Testament no longer collect tithes, then pastors who insist Christians are under a New Testament have no business doing so.






Study and be wise. Do not exhibit your ignorance to the world in such a distasteful manner.

nep2ra:


Wetin dis one dey talk?

Another half-baked Bible Scholar on the loose. Sit down and let me educate you some:

Abraham gave a tithe of the spoils of war. He did this once and for all and not monthly as your thieving pastors would have you believe.


Here is an account below:

[b]After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him, the king of Sodom came out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley).

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying,

‘Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.’

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

The king of Sodom said to Abram, ‘Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.’

But Abram said to the king of Sodom, ‘With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth, that I will accept nothing belonging to you, not even a thread or the strap of a sandal, so that you will never be able to say, “I made Abram rich.” I will accept nothing but what my men have eaten and the share that belongs to the men who went with me – to Aner, Eshkol and Mamre. Let them have their share.’ ~ Genesis 14:17-24 NIV
[/b]

Leviticus told you how to pay it correctly?!! Am I reading right? Ok, since you want to go down that line, I will oblige you. Tithes were given to the tribe of Levi who served as priests in the Temple because they had no inheritance in the Promised Land. Eleven tribes were given choice lands to do as they wished excluding the tribe of Levi. These tithes were given once a year and they were agricultural produce. Is your pastor a Jew from the tribe of Levi? I see you are one of those who failed to read the topic and conduct diligent research concerning this issue. Here is an excerpt from the topic. Read and conduct your own research:



According to the Law of Moses, the tithe was divided into three allocations. The first year, it was given to the Levite. The second year, it was given to widows, orphans and the poor. The third year, it was eaten in the company of the faithful before the Lord as thanksgiving for his faithfulness. (Deuteronomy 14:22-28). In the seventh year, there was no planting and no reaping and therefore no tithing.

So the next time your pastor asks you to pay tithe, ask him about the seventh-year reprieve. Also ask him if you can give your tithe to the orphanage, or bring it as food items to be eaten in church. Believe me; he will not agree with you because it is your money he is after.

...if Jews no longer tithe because the Levites are a lost tribe, how can Christian pastors collect tithes when we are not even Jewish, how much more Levites? If Jewish rabbis, whose terms of reference remain the Old Testament no longer collect tithes, then pastors who insist Christians are under a New Testament have no business doing so.






Study and be wise. Do not exhibit your ignorance to the world in such a distasteful manner.

i am very sure that our bros is either genuinely ignorant sheep or one of the scammers. 1million likes. God bless u plenty.

shdemidemi:

what is the meaning of this na, Why would anyone just want to be a hardened liar, So every statement made by Christ was universal and had no specific audience?

Jesus ministry was for all generations and the redemptive future, not about his personal notoriety to the pharisees or the masses of people drawn to Him.

nep2ra:

Despite the education and glaring facts given to you regarding the issue of tithing, you have wilfully and mischievously chosen to remain in the cesspit of your ignorance. You have shown by your comment how unlearned you truly are when it comes to in-depth Bible study. Your foundation is weak. I implore you to desist from further arguments on tithing because doing so will cause you great embarrassment.

ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth 2tim 3:7 having factual knowledge of the bible is never truth am sorry my bro..your post above lacks truth.