olabowale dont let us bother with most of your drivel . . . just ask yourself . . .

olabowale:

Don't for get that you said that the Children of Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, because they thought or they were expecting a Messiah on a chariot. I only use Moses to say that with all the miracles that he performed, he never came to them as a warrior. But Jesus came just in the same way that all the prophets before him came to their nations. Come to think of it Moses was rejected before he was accepted. Jesus was accepted by few, except that the majority rejected him. And he came in the same meek way and needing support and followers like every prophet before him.

too much noise about the children of Israel, Moses, Jesus Christ e.t.c. WHAT BECAME OF THE "CHILD OF PROMISE" ISHMAEL? WHERE ARE HIS OWN PROPHETS?

4 Him:

olabowale don't let us bother with most of your drivel . . . just ask yourself . . .

too much noise about the children of Israel, Moses, Jesus Christ e.t.c. WHAT BECAME OF THE "CHILD OF PROMISE" ISHMAEL? WHERE ARE HIS OWN PROPHETS?

4Him
Your questions usually amaze me because you don't understand a jack about All'ah or even the scriptures. Do you except God to talk of any other people prophets in the Ko'ran when He sent all of them for the same message at different times? Why does Jesus refer to David and Moses in the Bible?

WHERE ARE HIS OWN PROPHETS?

The arabs had no warner before Mu'hammed and this noble prophet is the seal and head of the Imams(among all the prophets).Do the Jews truely have prophets professing their religion? Or was Abraham a Jew?
Please mention the name of a prophet in your bible that claim he was Jewish in faith or Christian. If you're telling the truth. The point is all this men you say were Jews never practised the Jewish customs, they never called anyone a begotten son of God, neither do they say anything contrary to Isl'am. Why? They were all Mus'lims-they worshipped one God and sort no intercession from any except God Himself.

God said: We sent you (O Mu'hammed) as a warner and giver of glad tidings.
Another says: We never sent a Messenger to this folk(Arabs), So warn them against a painful punishment, lest they should say:"We had no warner or bringer of glad tidings". And now that We sent them a Messenger most of them turn away!

Frizy:

The arabs had no warner before Mu'hammed and this noble prophet is the seal and head of the Imams(among all the prophets).Do the Jews truely have prophets professing their religion? Or was Abraham a Jew?
Please mention the name of a prophet in your bible that claim he was Jewish in faith or Christian. If you're telling the truth. The point is all this men you say were Jews never practised the Jewish customs, they never called anyone a begotten son of God, neither do they say anything contrary to Isl'am. Why? They were all Mus'lims-they worshipped one God and sort no intercession from any except God Himself.

God said: We sent you (O Mu'hammed) as a warner and giver of glad tidings.
Another says: We never sent a Messenger to this folk(Arabs), So warn them against a painful punishment, lest they should say:"We had no warner or bringer of glad tidings". And now that We sent them a Messenger most of them turn away!

Arabs were present at the feast of Pentecost, and they heard the disciples of Jesus speaking in 'their' tongue.


Acts 2:5-11 =>

5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying, Behold, are not all these that speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born?
9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia,
10 in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God.



========================
These Arabs were ancestors of Moh@mmed. They heard the 12 disciples and believed in Jesus. Moh@mmed came to manipulate them for his own religio-political motives --- 540 years after Pentecost!

imhotep:


Arabs were present at the feast of Pentecost, and they heard the disciples of Jesus speaking in 'their' tongue.


Acts 2:5-11 =>

5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying, Behold, are not all these that speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born?
9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia,
10 in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God.



========================
These Arabs were ancestors of Moh@mmed. They heard the 12 disciples and believed in Jesus. Moh@mmed came to manipulate them for his own religio-political motives --- 540 years after Pentecost!

IMHOTEP,

that was a good one. . It never really occurred to me you know? Lets see how Olabowale counters that. Preempting him, he could say that the Arabs in that passage are not true arabs or that the writers of the bible smuggled that in to deride the arabs?

Lets watch.

Good one Imhotep, i never imagined it that way.

Frizy:

4Him
Your questions usually amaze me because you don't understand a jack about All'ah or even the scriptures. Do you except God to talk of any other people prophets in the Ko'ran when He sent all of them for the same message at different times? Why does Jesus refer to David and Moses in the Bible?

Rather, that question puts to question your noise making about Ishmael being the child or promise, why would al'lah give him the promise and ignore him outright for 4000 yrs in favour of the younger son?

Frizy:

The arabs had no warner before Mu'hammed and this noble prophet is the seal and head of the Imams(among all the prophets).Do the Jews truely have prophets professing their religion? Or was Abraham a Jew?

Abraham was not a prophet . . . u people dont seem to have any criteria at all for naming prophets . . . seems the only rule is just about ANY biblical character that you could manipulate to learn some credence to the falsehood of i'slam.

Frizy:

Please mention the name of a prophet in your bible that claim he was Jewish in faith or Christian.

We know for a start that Moses, Elisha, Elijah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, James, John, Micah . . . were all jewish.
Here is the problem though, you keep dishonestly reverting to your "name any prophet who was a jew" drivel. Can you name ANY prophet who was of the tribe of Ishmael? surely al'lah must have sent just one.

Frizy:

If you're telling the truth. The point is all this men you say were Jews never practised the Jewish customs, they never called anyone a begotten son of God, neither do they say anything contrary to Isl'am.

Is this man alright? Moses NEVER practiced Jewish customs? Who wrote the books of Deuteronomy, Leveticus?

Frizy:

Why? They were all Mus'lims-they worshipped one God and sort no intercession from any except God Himself.

Again back to the default lies that have NO PROOF.

Frizy:

God said: We sent you (O Mu'hammed) as a warner and giver of glad tidings.
Another says: We never sent a Messenger to this folk(Arabs), So warn them against a painful punishment, lest they should say:"We had no warner or bringer of glad tidings". And now that We sent them a Messenger most of them turn away!

Where is the proof of all this "we sent we sent". Why were NO prophets sent to the tribe of Ishmael?

Wait o, how come my questions about what Christ said in the Qu'ran and about Mary being the Sister of Aaron have not been answered.

Why the dodging?


Lol@ how I asked one question and it spurned into a big picture.

Brethren these are the questions we should be asking, instead of resorting to bashing them. Ask them about the truth and not conspiracy theories or about what we heard and read. If they hold the truth they will be able to defend it without beating around the bush. Clearly they can't.

nne, ~Lady~,

let me help you bring your question to the 4:

So why then was it pointed out repeatedly that the covenant was with the Children of Isreal.

Surah 2:41
O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me, I will fulfil My covenant with you, and Me alone should you fear.

Surah 2:48
2:48] O Children of Israel! remember My favours which I bestowed upon you and that I exalted you above the peoples of the time

Answer my next questions.

If the covenant was with Ishmeal, why are the Prophets from Isaac's bloodline?
So God would make a promise to Frizy, but give it to Olabowale?

3.Did Jesus say that he would die and rise again?

oya, who get liver[b], babs, bowale, frizy[/b], see challenge ! oya, scatter your dada?

@Davidylan:

too much noise about the children of Israel, Moses, Jesus Christ e.t.c. WHAT BECAME OF THE "CHILD OF PROMISE" ISHMAEL? WHERE ARE HIS OWN PROPHETS?  

Does it make any sense that a perfect job needed to be done more than once? Mu.ha.mmad was the only one needed, so he came at the perfect time, perfectly to lead the most imperfet branch and never been tested cildren of father Ibrahim, to bring all the other children (Isiaq branch) and all mankind to a perfect way of life, that is harmonious to natural order.

Are succesive prophets not for the purpose of correcting the deviation of people from the correct laws laid down by God through the former/previous prophets? If the children of Israel did not deviate from the Mosaic laws, in a general sense, would there be a need to finally bring about Jesus? Afterall, Jesus was saying that he needed to fulfill the Mosaic laws and warned against anybody who does not.

My people, think.
 

@imhotep:

 
Arabs were present at the feast of Pentecost, and they heard the disciples of Jesus speaking in 'their' tongue.

And the one day event of 570 years before the birth of the noblest of prophets, is transformed to 23 years of work? A  work that does not resemble the original? But refuting your claim about Jesus, starting from 40 years after the birth of Muhamma.d? You and your tall tales. And by the way, while your Original goes through revision, editions, versions, why is the M.u.slim's copy never have changed from the time of Mu.ha.mm.ad? Have you seen any original in Hebrew, or Aramaic?  I have a copy, the Qu.r'an that was written over 1000 years ago!

Acts 2:5-11 =>

5    Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
6    And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
7    And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying, Behold, are not all these that speak Galilaeans?
8    And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born?
9    Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia,
10  in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11  Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God.

Notice they did not say Makkans and Madinans. Arab is large, duh. Check your geography books again.  Imagine if they say an afrcan is present at an event. Will it be necessarily be a Malian? And the fact that he his Malian does not mean that he is Shoyinke. If he were Shoyinke, it will not mean that the Shoyinke in Senegal will know what happened at this event, in Algeria.

These Arabs were ancestors of Moh@mmed. They heard the 12 disciples and believed in Jesus. Moh@mmed came to  manipulate them for his own religio-political motives --- 540 years after Pentecost!

And the benefit that he reaped was what: as President of the Arab Penisular? As the wealthiest people among them? As the King of the Arabs? Liar, liar pants on fire!


@cgift (m):  

IMHOTEP,

that was a good one.   . It never really occurred to me you know? Lets see how Olabowale counters that. Preempting him, he could say that the Arabs in that passage are not true arabs or that the writers of the bible smuggled that in to deride the arabs?

Lets watch.

Aburo. We mu mi! Oloun, Alawura rim sinnn. SOun nikon rim fori bale fun! (Did I get the Ijebu language?). All that you said, if assumed to be true, will still not wash away the fact that it took  610 years after Jesus, before the Isl.am of M.uhamm.ad. The Arabs did not accuse him what you are saying here. The Arabs never at one time said that he copied the Jews and or the Chritians. They never even mentioned that he copied the Bible. They never even said that he copied any oral tradition that was with them, before he started his mission.

And when the Christians/Jews tried to accuse him, A.llah revealed that the accusers and all should notice that th Qu.r'an is in a different tongue, Arabic. It indicates that information gotten in other people's language, no one can be very eloquent when they say it in their own language. You are just giving weak excuses for complete failure.
 

@4 Him (m):

Good one Imhotep, i never imagined it that way.

Yes, good one for failure! Imagine it.


@Davidyln:
[uote]
Rather, that question puts to question your noise making about Ishmael being the child or promise, why would al'lah give him the promise and ignore him outright for 4000 years in favour of the younger son?

[/quote]

Second guessing God, but then you set up intercessor and partners with Him. Is it not true that they say those who laugh last laugh best? Is it not true that you safe the best for last? Have you ever heard the phrase last dance? Is a house perfect until the perfecly placed last block? Thats the trump card. You don't use it or reveal it unless its the last thing.

M.uh.ammad, by All.ah is the last of them and he is the leader of them! He led them all in a prayer. And no one will be allowed Intercession before him. Now deal with it.

Abraham was not a prophet . . . u people don't seem to have any criteria at all for naming prophets . . . seems the only rule is just about ANY biblical character that you could manipulate to learn some credence to the falsehood of i'slam.

Was the Bible written before Ibraim? Or Ibrahim is an exclusive property of th Jews and or the Christians and the Muslims and Arabs do not have anything to do with him? What are the criteria of prophethood if you know it? And how many prophets were there? And what is your reason that Ibrahim was not a prophet? The person who God called His friend? The person who is the first to believe in his time?

[Quote]
We know for a start that Moses, Elisha, Elijah, Samuel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, James, John, Micah . . . were all jewish.
Here is the problem though, you keep dishonestly reverting to your "name any prophet who was a jew" drivel. Can you name ANY prophet who was of the tribe of Ishmael? surely al'lah must have sent just one.

You amaze me too, David. Jews? What happened to the Levites? The Benjamites? The Josephites? The Reubenites, etc? I doubt if you even know anything about the Children of Israel. The tribe of jews are from Judah, one of the 12 sons of Jacob. Was it not that after Solomon's reign, the Children of Israel teritory not divided into two Israel and Judea? Was Jesus not called Son of David as it was used to say that he came out of the house of David? Which David? Was it not King David? What direct relationship did they have? Were they father and son? Was there not a good number of generations between them? Was David the one who got Mary pregnant now? lol.

And M.uha.mma.d, was enough as the prophet that should come from the Ismailites! Ha!

[Quote]:
Is this man alright? Moses NEVER practiced Jewish customs? Who wrote the books of Deuteronomy, Leveticus?
[/quote]

Ask yourself or the Jews? Remember that your Biblical writers were "inspired" men? Are you familiar with talmud and mishna of the Jews? Are you familiar with their Kabala? Learn about them first, before we revisit the Jewish Issues, again.

[Quote]
Again back to the default lies that have NO PROOF.
[/quote]

Tell us, do they set up partnership as you have set up Jesus in Christianity? Or do they ask Jesus to intercede, too? Are you okay, David?

[Quote]:
Where is the proof of all this "we sent we sent". Why were NO prophets sent to the tribe of Ishmael?  
[/quote]

David you are now sounding like a broken record. You never read the Qu.r'.an, yet you complain this much?
 

[~Lady~
Wait o, how come my questions about what Christ said in the Qu'ran and about Mary being the Sister of Aaron have not been answered.

Why the dodging?


Lol@ how I asked one question and it spurned into a big picture.

[/quote]

Rea the Q.ur'a.n to know what Jesus said. Read Surah 5 (th table spread). Read Mariam (Mary). Re Saffa ( Those set in Arrays; verse 6 or so). These are just a few and am sure you can lead yorself from there onward. There is no dodging.

And are not all mankind, sons and daughters, children of Adam and his wife ve? Are we not therefore brothers and sisters? Are not all the Children of Israel brothers and sisters? Did Israel (Jacob) not before Moses and Aaron? And was Mary the mother of Jesus your god  not before the present day Jews (children of Israel), who still cling to their bloodlines, the only reason they say they are of the same family, a nation? Sisi, a Jewish man just called me and what I am saying to you now, he does not disagree with any part, concening the"Jews"/Israelites. Are the generations of Aaron and Mary not closer to each other than the generations of Judah, Ruben, Joseph, Benjamin, Levi, etc and the present day Jews?

If the present day Jews are brothers and sisters, and they say that they are children of Israel, then the children of Israel are brothers and sisters to one another, regardless of the generational gaps. Is that a strange thing that Mary was honored when he was called a sister of a very notable child of Israel? Was Aaron not good enough for you? Was he not instep with Moses, the liberator of the Children of Israel, by God's permission, with a common stick and nothing more? Just to amuse you; Are the Binis not brothers and ssters to the larger Yorubas? Don't you have the same system of chieftancy as the Yorubas? You they make me laugh, sisi 9ja.

[quote]
Brethren these are the questions we should be asking, instead of resorting to bashing them. Ask them about the truth and not conspiracy theories or about what we heard and read. If they hold the truth they will be able to defend it without beating around the bush. Clearly they can't.

And they will be answered. What action will you take whe you relise that the truth is being prsented to you? Are you going to still deny it? You hv responsibility to your on soul: Pardise is real andso is Hellfire.

I pray that we all accept guidance befor we die and die on true guidance. Amin.

olabowale:


@imhotep:
And the one day event of 570 years before the birth of the noblest of prophets, is transformed to 23 years of work? A work that does not resemble the original? But refuting your claim about Jesus, starting from 40 years after the birth of Muhamma.d? You and your tall tales. And by the way, while your Original goes through revision, editions, versions, why is the M.u.slim's copy never have changed from the time of Mu.ha.mm.ad? Have you seen any original in Hebrew, or Aramaic?

The message of that portion of Acts is simple and straightforward.
Arabs heard the disciples speaking in their tongue, and believed Jesus.
Consult ALL the [so-called] editions of the gospel you have seen ---- this message remains the same.

olabowale:

I have a copy, the Qu.r'an that was written over 1000 years ago!

And I have copies of the gospels written over 2000 years ago.
I also have copies of the jewish scriptures written over 3000 years ago.

olabowale:

Notice they did not say Makkans and Madinans. Arab is large, duh. Check your geography books again. Imagine if they say an afrcan is present at an event. Will it be necessarily be a Malian? And the fact that he his Malian does not mean that he is Shoyinke. If he were Shoyinke, it will not mean that the Shoyinke in Senegal will know what happened at this event, in Algeria.

Makkans and Madinans are Arabs. You are trying to meander in a serpentine trajectory in order to dodge the issue.

olabowale:

And the benefit that he reaped was what: as President of the Arab Penisular? As the wealthiest people among them? As the King of the Arabs? Liar, liar pants on fire!

Isl@m spread by violence under the supreme command of Moh@mmed .
Violence precipitates looting of treasures, slave trade, keeping of harems, bribery, government-by-settlement [IBB style], blackmail, extortion etc etc

olabowale:

Are succesive prophets not for the purpose of correcting the deviation of people from the correct laws laid down by God through the former/previous prophets? If the children of Israel did not deviate from the Mosaic laws, in a general sense, would there be a need to finally bring about Jesus? Afterall, Jesus was saying that he needed to fulfill the Mosaic laws and warned against anybody who does not.

My people, think.

If only you could also think. for 4000 yrs what laws did al'lah send to the ishmaelites? Why were they NEVER warned? Why didnt they have A SINGLE prophet to prevent them from deviation for the laws of "god"?

When you talk of "laws of god" what laws are you talking about? I hope you're not dishonestly trying to appropriate the jewish laws of Moses.

olabowale:

You amaze me too, David. Jews? What happened to the Levites? The Benjamites? The Josephites? The Reubenites, etc? I doubt if you even know anything about the Children of Israel. The tribe of jews are from Judah, one of the 12 sons of Jacob.

Dont be a dishonest soul, the jews/Israelis covers the entire 12 sons of Jacob. Now the reason Judah is magnified above all is that his line produced the Kings of Israel and Jesus Christ Himself.
Note that Jesus Christ in the new testament continously refers to them as the "children of Israel".

If you've been a honest student of jewish history you shld know that the priests (who were still existing in the time of Jesus Christ) were primarily from the tribe of Levi (so they didnt disappear).

Apostle Paul - Tribe of Benjamin
John the Baptist - Tribe of Levi

Just to mention a few and to show you that the jews are not merely the sons of Judah alone.

The rest of your fairy tale is similar, dodging the questions by playing to the gallery.

How is this thread so long? People realise that the Gospel of Barnabas is a known forgery, right? Right?

KAG:

How is this thread so long? People realise that the Gospel of Barnabas is a known forgery, right? Right?

Either some mus'lims are pretending not to know or they just want to believe its not a forgery.

@imhotep:

The message of that portion of Acts is simple and straightforward.
Arabs heard the disciples speaking in their tongue, and believed Jesus.
Consult ALL the [so-called] editions of the gospel you have seen ---- this message remains the same.

Day of penticost, you said? If it happened then, with the "Presence" of the holy spirit in the mist,when they spoke in strange tongue, was it not a one time thing? How is the one time thing occurrence in 2000 years ago, be affecting you, people who claim that you are still receiving the holy spirit today, and are able to speak in tongues?

There is a party that is lying in Christendom, and its not Jesus.  And all these while, we have not heard of a present day Christians who is not an Arab speak that tongue, again? Or when the Yoruba Christian speak in tongue, they speak Igbo or other identifiable tongue?

Very confident that the Arabs appeared in a nick of time to catch the "Penticostal speech" and the "holy ghost." How much was spoken about under the influence of the holy spirit, in Arabic tongue? They summarised all that Jesus did in 3 years in a single day event? People let be serious here. If you think hard, you will know that a power point presentation in just one day, is not enough for the Arabs who were there to grasp everything that Jesus did in 3 years. Faith does not happen that way. The history of the desciples of Jesus should have educated you. Afterall, thre was a doubting "Thomas," among them! Very interesting to observe that this Arabs witness did not make a wholesale christians out of Makkans, and therefore no one can accuse the prophet that he was trying to bring them out of Chritianity and or desuade them from accepting the teaching of Cjhristianity. Onless the Christians were masquerading all over Makka as the Idol worshippers of all the 13 years in Makka and another 8 to 10 years of Madina. You guys need to hang it up.

And I have copies of the gospels written over 2000 years ago.

I will post mine here, if you want. It will be in pure Arabic! It will be a whole Q.ur'a.n. You must be able to post yours in Aramaic or Hebrew. I know that you can not produce the whole Bible. Now tell me, which 'According to" testament will you post? Will it have the post gospel parts of the New Testaments, eg Acts etc?.

Makkans and Madinans are Arabs. You are trying to meander in a serpentine trajectory in order to dodge the issue.

What issue? There are Yorubas in Ghana and elsewhere. Are they the Yorubas in Oshogbo or Omuaran? You are funny.


[Quote]
Isl@m  spread by violence under the supreme command of Moh@mmed .
Violence precipitates looting of treasures, slave trade, keeping of harems, bribery, government-by-settlement [IBB style], blackmail, extortion etc etc
[/quote]

I want harem. except the maximum will be four in Number. They will be known as my wives in another setting. I love to keep the flame of romance fully blown. Unfortunately, your type will have one wife and a ton of girlfriends out there. Such a dishonest guy you are!

Enu o puro ko nshe je!
   

@4 Him:  

If only you could also think. for 4000 years what laws did al'lah send to the ishmaelites? Why were they NEVER warned? Why didnt they have A SINGLE prophet to prevent them from deviation for the laws of "god"?

When you talk of "laws of god" what laws are you talking about? I hope you're not dishonestly trying to appropriate the jewish laws of Moses.

All the laws I need Alhamdulillah, are in Q.u.r'an and Hadith. Did Africa have a single Prophet to prevent them from deviation?

Dont be a dishonest soul, the jews/Israelis covers the entire 12 sons of Jacob. Now the reason Judah is magnified above all is that his line produced the Kings of Israel and Jesus Christ Himself.
Note that Jesus Christ in the new testament continously refers to them as the "children of Israel".

If you've been a honest student of jewish history you shld know that the priests (who were still existing in the time of Jesus Christ) were primarily from the tribe of Levi (so they didnt disappear).

Apostle Paul - Tribe of Benjamin
John the Baptist - Tribe of Levi

Just to mention a few and to show you that the jews are not merely the sons of Judah alone.

The rest of your fairy tale is similar, dodging the questions by playing to the gallery.  

Just to help you know the true differences of Children of Israel, a people consisting of 12 Tribes/nations and Jews, in its original meaning as an ethic people, is one of the 12 Tribes/nations, I will use Yorubas to set up a clear scenario for you.

YOrubas are like the Children of israel.

Under the Yorubas, you have the Egbas, the Oyos, The Ondos, The Ijbeus, The Ekitis, etc. And Under the Children of Israel, you have the Jews, the Levites, The Rubenites, The benjemites< the Josephites, etc.

And the Egbas stand in the same quality as the Levites.
The Ijebus among the Yorubas are in the same light as the Jews among the Children of Israel.


@KAG: THe same way your evolution madness is seen as forgery to me. Yet you still do the song and dance to it, and you can not live it down.

olabowale:

All the laws I need Alhamdulillah, are in Q.u.r'an and Hadith. Did Africa have a single Prophet to prevent them from deviation?

we werent talking about you, the QUESTION was what "laws" were the ishmaelites observing before the qu'ran and hadith came?

olabowale:

Just to help you know the true differences of Children of Israel, a people consisting of 12 Tribes/nations and Jews, in its original meaning as an ethic people, is one of the 12 Tribes/nations, I will use Yorubas to set up a clear scenario for you.

YOrubas are like the Children of israel.

Under the Yorubas, you have the Egbas, the Oyos, The Ondos, The Ijbeus, The Ekitis, etc. And Under the Children of Israel, you have the Jews, the Levites, The Rubenites, The benjemites< the Josephites, etc.

And the Egbas stand in the same quality as the Levites.
The Ijebus among the Yorubas are in the same light as the Jews among the Children of Israel.

No such thing as josephites have ever existed - rather the tribe of joseph is divided into 2 - - Ephraim and Mannaseh his sons.

- The term jew is almost synonymous with Israeli. Jews as at the time of Christ encompassed all the 12 tribes, i mentioned earlier . . . you hear judaism more because the line of Judah was the Davidic line through which the Messiah was born.

How is this thread so long? People realise that the Gospel of Barnabas is a known forgery, right? Right?

Do you have a copy of the book that you call forgery. You may not even have heard of it and you come here glantly saying its false.

Chapter 29 God Revealed To Abraham

Then Philip said: "Great is the mercy of God upon whoever loves him. Tell us, O master, how Abraham came to [have] the knowledge of God." Jesus answered: "Having arrived near to the house of his father, Abraham feared to go into the house; so he removed [himself] some distance from the house and sat under a palm tree, where, being by himself, he said:"There must be a God who has life and power more than man, since he makes man, and man without God could not make man."

Thereupon, looking round upon the stars, the moon, and the sun, he thought that they had been God. But after considering their variableness with their movements, hesaid: "It must be [necessarily] that God does not move and that clouds do not hide him [as they hide the planets]; otherwise men would be reduced to nothing." Remaining thus in suspense, he heard himself called by name, "Abraham!" And so, turning round and not seeing any one on any side, he said: "I am sure I heard myself called by name, 'Abraham. " Then, two other times in a similar manner, he heard himself called by name, "Abraham!"

He answered: "What calls me?" Then he heard [the voice] say: "I am the angel of God, Gabriel." Abraham was filled with fear; but the angel comforted him, saying: "Do not fear, Abraham, for you are friend of God When you broke in pieces the gods of men, you were chosen [by] the God of the angels and prophets such that you are written in the Book of Life." Then said Abraham: "What should I do [so as] to serve the God of the angels and holy prophets?" The angel answered: "Go to that fount and wash yourself, for God wishes to speak with you."

Abraham answered: "How should I wash myself?" Then the angel appeared to him as a beautiful youth, and washed himself in the fount, saying: "Do the same as this, O Abraham." When Abraham had washed himself, the angel said: "Go up that mountain, for God wilshes to speak to you there." Abraham ascended the mountain as the angel [had instructed him], and having sat down upon his knees he said to himself: "When will the God of the angels speak to me?" He heard himself called with a gentle voice: "Abraham!" Abraham answered him: "Who calls me?" The voice answered: "I am your God, O Abraham."

Abraham, filled with fear, bent his face to earth, saying: "How shall your servant who is dust and ashes hearken to you!" Then said God: "Fear not, but rise up, for I have chosen you as my servant, and I will bless you and make you increase into a great people. Therefore go forth from the house of your father and of your kindred, and come to dwell in the land which I will give to you and to your seed."

Abraham answered: "I will do everything, Lord; but guard me [so] that no other god may harm me." Then God spoke, saying: "I am God alone, and there is none other god but me. I strike down, and make whole; I slay, and give life; I lead down to hell, and I bring out thereof, and no-one is able to deliver himself out of my hands." Then God gave him the covenant of circumcision; and so our father Abraham knew God." And having said this, Jesus lifted up his hands, saying: "To you be honour and glory, O God. So be it!"

Chapter 30 The Good Samaritan 

Jesus went to Jerusalem, near to the Senofegia, a feast of our nation . The scribes and Pharisees having perceived this, took counsel to catch him in his talk. Whereupon, there came to him a doctor, saying: "Master, what must I do to have eternal life?" Jesus answered: "How is it written in the Law?" The tempter answered, saying: "Love the Lord your God, and your neighbour. You shall love your God above all things, with all your heart and your mind, and your neighbour as yourself." Jesus answered: "You have answered well: therefore go and do you so, I say, and you shall have eternal life." He said to him: "And who is my neighbour?"

Jesus answered, lifting up his eyes: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to go to Jericho, a city rebuilt under a curse. This man on the road was seized by robbers, wounded and stripped; whereupon they departed, leaving him half dead. It chanced that a priest passed by that place, and he, seeing the wounded man, passed on without greeting him. In like manner passed a Levite, without saying a word. It chanced that there passed [also] a Samaritan, who, seeing the wounded man, was moved to compassion, and alighted from his horse, and took the wounded man and washed his wounds with wine, and anointed them with ointment, and binding up his wounds for him and comforting him, he set him upon his own horse.

Whereupon, having arrived in the evening at the inn, he gave him into the charge of the host. And when he had risen on the morrow, he said: "Take care of this man, and I will pay you all." And having presented four gold pieces to the sick man for the host, he said: "Be of good cheer, for I will speedily return and conduct you to my own home." "Tell me," said Jesus, "which of these was the neighbour?" The doctor answered: "He who showed mercy." Then Jesus said: "You have answered rightly; therefore go and do you likewise." The doctor departed in confusion

Frizy:

Do you have a copy of the book that you call forgery. You may not even have heard of it and you come here glantly saying its false.

Dont be daft, you dont need to possess a false $5 note to know that someone else might possess a fake.

Do you have a copy of the protocols of the elders of Zion? Did you know its a Russian forgery?

Is this the defence you can put up? Such a shame.

Isnt it worrisome to you that much of your energy is expended posting "books" that talk exclusively of Israelis? Any book about the ishmaelites discovered yet?

@4 him

I still waiting the Gospel of Jesus that I ask you to show us “ give us the Good News”
I’m surprise that until know you cann’t probe us were is the Gospel of Jesus I give you the three passage of Jesus he preached it is now you term to shows us the truth. Another thing is when you read those passage of Mark, Luke and Matthew. They all come out to the teaching of the word “The Gospel of the Kingdom of God”
Where is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God?

Why they take much important to accept the production of the Nicene Creed in 325 AD and iconize the Name of Matthew,Mark,Luke and John and shredded thousand of passage to come out in that point. Where is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God that Jesus preached at that time he still alive? Did he preach his life? Did he preach his miracle? Did he preach his lineage? Did he preach to curse the Fig tree? Or did he teach how to move mountain and eat poison to believe in his teaching?

From history we know these two races are distinct.

Yap ! call them “SEMI” half white and half black.

So if i said you and babs787 are birds of the same feather does it mean you have the same parents? You shld be ashamed of your poor scholarship.

I and babs787 are moominin we have the same belief in is’lamic teaching.

Do the babylonians serve Jehovah and possess a torah?

They don’t have the Torah but they believe in One God, “The EL”

the bible has no record of canaanite or sumerian prophets, please check your qu'ran maybe your al'lah smuggled such nonsense into it.

Just say so if you cannot figure it out, you’re swallowing you word that all prophet are Jews I give you some piece of information its up to you to probe it.

But it is correct to say they are the direct ancestors of the jews . . . no?

When your grandparent born in Nigeria and you migrated to American and become American Citizen do you called you Grandparent an American citizen?

Dont be so stupid, that is because as at that time neither Abraham nor Isaac or Jacob was large enough to stand alone as a nation. Oduduwa is regarded as the father of the yorubas, but the term "yoruba" was never used when he was alive . . . does that mean oduduwa is hausa?

But still they faith exist until Today. To believe in One God? Not 1+1+1=1 instead of 3. in mathematic the basic theory should follow if you got the wrong answer you fail in the examination.1+1+1=3 not 1

what has this got to do with you? WHAT OF THE DESCENDANTS OF ISHMAEL? Shouldnt that be of more concern to you dishonest people?

Be real lol a piece of information can lead you to a great result. I just emphasize a little bit history to draw back how the Israeli are suffering in the Hand of Pharaoh at that time not event among them a Jewish people.

Go ask them.

I ask you a simple question that a little child can answer that when was the Israel started to build a nation and called themselves a Jew?

@Davidylan: I wonder if the grandchildren of Jacob are equal in stature as their Uncles to their grandfather! You seem too technical, but all the while missing the point. Look into your Bible. You will have to tell us how the 12 tribes/nations are headed by the combinations of sons and 2 grandsons (You said Benjamites are now divided into 2 tribes). If this is so, it is no wonder we see all these confusions in the Bible. My father can never be called my name. And my two sons can never be equated to the status of my siblings in the house of my father: Pakulopa of Ijebu land. lol. David, weee murun kurun.

[Quote]Dont be daft, you don't need to possess a false $5 note to know that someone else might possess a fake.

Do you have a copy of the protocols of the elders of Zion? Did you know its a Russian forgery?

Is this the defence you can put up? Such a shame.

Isnt it worrisome to you that much of your energy is expended posting "books" that talk exclusively of Israelis? Any book about the ishmaelites discovered yet?
[/Quote]
If you have these much forgery in Christianity, where is the truth then? Can a single Bible version stand the test of scrutiny? Can a single Bible be the original? Can it be traced to the time of Jesus? Isn't it interesting that the protestants are not ashamed about their assult of the catholic Bible, a Book that they shameless copy? Yet they assult it? Is it not clear that if you doubt your source of information, then you should doubt your own information?

And the book that talks about Ismailites, is the Q.ur'a.n. But of course you forgot that the Bible continued to follow the history of the Ismailtes. How could they have known about the lineage of Ismailites? You christians with your off the wall ideas and arguments. E fi ete sile, e ma pa lapalapa. (thats my Yoruba for you. Ask SysUser).

these men are still spewing drivel here?

@Davidylan: I wish I can laught like you. Yet I have my 32 in my mouth. The condition is serious. And by the way, I called you yesterday. It rained here, hard. Am sure it would be a deluge where you are.

Alhaji, no rain here at all. Sorry i saw ur missed call, i will retaliate later this evening.

@imhotep

And I have copies of the gospels written over 2000 years ago.
I also have copies of the jewish scriptures written over 3000 years ago

Another bogus operandi show us your 2000 years Gospel and Jewish scriptures written over 3000 year we are waiting

for that. let as see how the saint are telling the truth.

ol boy,all of you are just going round and round and round adding bits and pieces as you go along, think you ahould check the first 3 pages and you ll discover you r still arguing about the same thing, no matter what you say u cant change the christian to covert to your religion and no matter the christian's stance is,you muslims prolly believe 100% in your religion so whats the point of 7 pages of going round the same thing?to me i think you guys are just showing off,must say im learning a lot from both sides tho

If you have these much forgery in Christianity, where is the truth then? Can a single Bible version stand the test of scrutiny? Can a single Bible be the original? Can it be traced to the time of Jesus? Isn't it interesting that the protestants are not ashamed about their assult of the catholic Bible, a Book that they shameless copy?

. Thanks again my dear brother for the bail. 4Him and co were just attacking me during the weekend. In fact, it got to a point I had to stop typing. How are you?

lucabrasi:

ol boy,all of you are just going round and round and round adding bits and pieces as you go along, think you ahould check the first 3 pages and you ll discover you r still arguing about the same thing, no matter what you say u can't change the christian to covert to your religion and no matter the christian's stance is,you great ones prolly believe 100% in your religion so whats the point of 7 pages of going round the same thing?to me i think you guys are just showing off,must say im learning a lot from both sides tho

Well, I was trying to put light into the matter. I wish this thread was only explaining the verses and question from people without much skeptism but it rather turned otherwise. How your end?

Chapter 31 The Tribute-Money

Then drew near to Jesus the priests, and said: "Master, is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar?" Jesus turned round to Judas, and said: "Have you any money?" And taking a penny in his hand, Jesus turned himself to the priests, and said to them: "This penny has an image: tell me, whose image is it?" They answered: "Caesar"s". "Give therefore," said Jesus, "that which is Caesar's to Caesar, and that which is God's give it to God." Then they departed in confusion.

And behold there drew near a centurion, saying: "Lord, my son is sick; have mercy on my old age!" Jesus answered: "The Lord God of Israel have mercy on you!" The man was departing; and Jesus said: "Wait for me, for I will come to your house, to make prayer over your son." The centurion answered: "Lord, I am not worthy that you, a prophet of God, should come to my house, sufficient to me is the word that you have spoken for the healing of my son; for your God has made you lord over every sickness, even as his angel said to me in my sleep."

Then Jesus marvelled greatly, and turning to the crowd, he said: "Behold this stranger, for he has more faith than all that I have found in Israel." And turning to the centurion, he said: "Go in peace, because God, for the great faith that he has given you, has granted health to your son." The centurion went his way, and on the road he met his servants, who announced to him how his son was healed. The man answered: "At what hour did the fever leave him?" They said: "Yesterday, at the sixth hour, the heat departed from him."

The man knew that when Jesus said: "The Lord God of Israel have mercy on you," his son received his health. *Whereupon the man believed in our God, and having entered into his house, he brake in pieces all his own gods, saying: "There is only the God of Israel, the true and living God." Therefore said he: "None shall eat of my bread that does not worship the God of Israel."

Chapter 32 SUPPER IN THE LAWYER'S HOUSE

One skilled in the Law invited Jesus to supper, in order to tempt him. Jesus came thither with his disciples, and many scribes, to tempt him, waited for him in the house. Whereupon, the disciples sat down to table without washing their hands. The scribes called Jesus, saying: "Wherefore do not your disciples observe the traditions of our elders, in not washing their hands before they eat bread?" Jesus answered: "And I ask you, for what cause have you annulled the precept of God to observe your traditions? You say to the sons of poor fathers: "Offer and make vows to the Temple."

And they make vows of that little wherewith they ought to support their fathers. And when their fathers wish to take money, the sons cry out: "This money is consecrated to God"; whereby the fathers suffer. O false scribes, hypocrites, does God use this money? Assuredly not, for God eats not, as he says by his servant David the prophet: Shall I then eat the flesh of bulls and drink the blood of sheep? Render to me the sacrifice of praise, and offer to me your vows; for if I should be hungry I will not ask aught of you, seeing that all things are in my hands, and the abundance of paradise is with me. Hypocrites! you do this to fill your purse, and therefore you tithe rue and mint.

Oh miserable ones! for to others you show the most clear way, by which you will not go. 'You scribes and doctors lay upon the shoulders of others weights of unbearable weight, but you yourselves the while are not willing to move them with one of your fingers. Truly I say to you, that every evil has entered into the world under the pretext of the elders. Tell me, who made idolatry to enter into the world, if not the usage of the elders? For there was a king who exceedingly loved his father, whose name was Baal.

Whereupon, when the father was dead, his son for his own consolation, caused to be made an image like to his father, and set it up in the market-place of the city. And he made a decree that every one who approached that statue within a space of fifteen cubits should be safe, and no one any account should do him hurt. Hence the malefactors, by reason of the benefit they received therefrom, began to offer to the statue roses and flowers, and in a short time the offerings were changed into money and food, insomuch that they called it god, to honour it. Which thing from custom was transformed into a law, insomuch that the idol of Baal spread through all the world;

and how much does God lament this by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "Truly this people worships me in vain, for they have annulled my Law given to them by my servant Moses, and follow the traditions of their elders.

Truly I say to you, that to eat bread with unclean hands defiles not a man, because that which enters into the man defiles not the man, but that which comes out of the man defiles the man." Thereupon, said one of the scribes: "If I shall eat pork, or other unclean meats, will they not defile my conscience?" Jesus answered: "Disobedience will not enter into the man, but will come out of the man, from his heart; and therefore will he be defiled when he shall eat forbidden food."

Then said one of the doctors: "Master, you have spoken much against idolatry as though the people of Israel had idols, and so you have done us wrong." Jesus answered: "I know well that in Israel today there are not statues of wood; but there are statues of flesh." Then answered all the scribes in wrath: "And so we are idolaters?" Jesus answered: "Truly I say to you, the precept says not "You shall worship", but "You shall love the Lord your God with all your soul, and with all your heart, and with all your mind." Is this true?" said Jesus. "It is true" answered every one.

The above chapter-32 may not be accepted by many pastors or priests knowing fully well that their lives depends on tilth. Some Nigerians in the U.S go as far as buying them Jagaurs when the church members don't even use a mercedes. Too bad!

we're the oppositionist I'm still waiting the "Good News"?

were is the 2000 Gospel of the Saint?

they all speechless when truth are reveal

Story, story ---------------- story!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you reading the same material am reading? Okay lets see a good example here. If I told my corporate manager to tell a former employee to remember how much he used to enjoy working my organization. And the reason that I want him to know is that it is a public knowledge that his current job is not paying enough. And we at the same time opening new offices in his neighborhood.

What is happening is that he is not working for us, yet but because of his experience with us, we know that he will be better with us, away from his dead end job.

I still don't see how this relates to Isaac and Ishmeal. A covenant was not made with the employee or any of his relations in the first place.

The case of the Children of Israel is the same. They do not have any special and separate and exclusive "convenant," separate from what God has with Ibrahim. Iwant you to know that the first physical sign of the Covenant is circumcision. I am just using your Bible to kill your argument. And Ismail was the son who was circumcised, log before Isiaq.

Stop making yourself believe you know what's in the Bible. How did you use the Bible to kill my argument when you just supported my argument. The Bible states that the physical sign of the covenant is circumcision, so how are you using the Bible to kill my argument? Ishmeal was not circumcised before Isaac.  According to the Qu'ran it may have been so, but according to the Bible it is not so.

And from the Qu/r'an, we see that Ibrahim ask God to make all prophets that will come after him be from his loin. These prophets and his children to be people who are people of paradise, successful, prayerful. God accept his prayer and said that whoever from his bloodlines who worship anything apart from Him, that person will not be counted amount the successful

Ok good, so where are the prophets from his loin with the son that the covenant was with? How come the prophets only came from Isaac's line? But more importantly how can it be that the Isrealites were "lost" and are told to come back to the "truth" when the Prophets were with them. Shouldn't Ishmeal's line then be the "lost" ones to come back to the "truth". If not then show me the Arabic Prophets or at least show me what they believed in before Muhaaamad, if they weren't so lost.

We see that no prophet came after Ibrahim, that was not from his family.  And many came from from Isiaq, and ended up with Jesus. Then the only one that come after Jesus, was the only one that came from Ibrahim's line of Ismail Children i Mu.ha.mmad.

It's amazing how even the Qu'ran supports the "theory" that is in the Bible. God made a covenant with Abraham through his son Isaac and truly the Prophets are from his bloodline, even in the Qu'ran. So how is it that the covenant was made with Abraham through Ishmeal again? And how is it that the Isrealites were the lost ones when the Prophets rose from them.

Prophets are from God. And God's ordained religion is I.s.lam. Ethnicity was not at play, so the prophets are Is.la.mic prophets not Israelites prophets. No one will go to Paradise or hellfire because of tribe. But people will go to paradise or hellfire because of religion.

Well then disprove the logic that is in the Bible. Show me the prophets that rose from the coveant God made with Abraham through Ishmeal. If you mention any of the prophets that were Isrealites, then you prove the Bible. God was consistent with the Prophets, why didn't a prophet shoot up from the yoruba tribe? If it has nothing to do with the people or where they are from. Why did God then limit his covenant to Abraham's children? Why didn't he just make the covenant with everyone?

By A.l.lah, they did not. And Ijebu Ode, Ibadan, Abekuta, and many others, icludin Lagos, ikorodu and Even Aghor, are all in the south, south. They are all M.u.sli.m towns and cities. I only give you a snippet of even what the future may holds. You are Bini woman. And surprise Isl'am is in Bini, etc. Isl.am is in the east now. I can see you becoming M.u.s.lim woman, easily. You can't fight it, if God has counted you for you.

Finally, today, oil is now being discoverd in the West and many other places. Gold is in Kwara an so is iron ore. What about coal and others. I only use oil because it is something that many could relate to. But what is interesting is that you can not even point to one thing that is natural resources/riches that is in the land that Israelites controlled for 4000 years, if I mockingly quote David. (David and I are friends, so people should not read any meaning to it, more that what is obvious. To use the christian cliche: No interpretation).

Exactly my point. You're the one trying to show "specialty" with the Arabs and the riches. By the way those cities may be muuslim but where's the oil? The oil or riches of the land has nothing to do with it. Besides you forget that the state of Isreal did not exist until last century.

Don't for get that you said that the Children of Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah, because they thought or they were expecting a Messiah on a chariot. I only use Moses to say that with all the miracles that he performed, he never came to them as a warrior. But Jesus came just in the same way that all the prophets before him came to their nations. Come to think of it Moses was rejected before he was accepted. Jesus was accepted by few, except that the majority rejected him. And he came in the same meek way and needing support and followers like every prophet before him.

There is a reason why Christ is called messiah. Muhaaamad never understood that. If you or muhaaamad know the meaning of messiah, you won't be a muuuslim.
If he was just a regular prophet, why weren't the other prophets called messiah and why were there prophecies of the "same" messiah? Why is Christ alone the messiah? Why not Moses or Adam or Noah or Isaac? Explain to me that, but first give me the definition of messiah.

Apart from the question about your brother and your being hard nosed about ismail and isiaq, two sibling who are only from the one who had the primary covenant/relationship with God, the answer to each is yes.  And neither Ismail or Isiaq is involved in any covenent with God, except what was Ibrahim, under which they were covered and benefitted.

So what was the relevance of Ishmeal, if it was just with Abraham?

So why is it difficult to know that the first child is the one ever qualified to be called the only child, up to until his fisrt younger sibling is born.

Am so glad you said up to or until his younger sibling was born. So tell me who said Isaac was the only child? The Bible does not dismiss Ishmeal. We know there was a promise about Ishmeal. The promise is there. Truly the Arab nation is a great nation.
We're saying that the covenant with Abraham was after Isaac was born. Don't try to prove that the Bible says that the covenant was before Isaac was born, we already went through that. It's after Isaac was born.

You need to read the Bible. And it was your Biblical Angel who said that Ismail will be wild. Not his descendants, but him. And we see that the Biblical Angel missed tge mark, again.

I don't think so. The angel said: he shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against everyone, and everyone's hand against him; In opposition to all his kin shall he encamp. I believe we see that even today, how the world is with the Arabs and how the Arabs are with their kin, the Isrealites.
You are a yoruba man, though you are muuslim, and I do remember you telling me how much you can't stand the Arabs, I think you called them wild, but my memory fails me at the moment. Wouldn't that make truth what the angel said. In order to dissect this issue, we'll have to go to the character of an Arab. We see the character in Muhaaamad. But that is another discussion for another day.

I hear you. Cain did not kill Abel when they wer both children. A little child can not be labelled as bad, unless he exhibits the traces. Otherwise the label is completely unjustifiable. So tell me what this child who is label wild from infancy, tell me one wild thing he did? Afterall, it seems that the Bible followed his life, since there is a record of his bloodlines. What did he do that can qualify him as a wild person? If the label does not fit thereof, you must acquit.

I believe I addressed this issue above. It was a prophecy from the angel. The angel told Hagar that there would be many decendants, too many to count and truly there are many Arabs. The Lord told Abraham that he will make a great nation from Ishmeal and truly Arabia is a great nation. The angel said that the child will be a wild ass of a man, well truly the Arabs believe in raiding and keeping the booty. I believe that is a wild way.
About his bloodline, well why don't you tell me? That is your job here. You're the one trying to convice me that the covenant was with Abraham through Ishmeal, so show me Ishmeal's bloodline.
Oh please don't forget to mention the covenant itself. It is through Isaac that God was to carry his covenant, but the sign was the circumcision, so why not tell me what the covenant was.

Tell me a single wrong that he did. Even Jacob, one can point to a wrong that he did. Use your Bble and I will use your Bible

Why use the Bible? I thought the Qu'ran held the truth. Let's use that. We're trying to prove the authenticity of the Qu'ran here.

Can you list any of them? lol

Ofcourse not, the Bible doesn't focus on the son that the covenant was not to come through. Besides the Bible says that he and his mother was dismissed. But since the Qu'ran has the answers show me Ishmeal and his bloodline.