@Frizzy

You're still quoting the Barnabas gospel.
Do you believe the Gospel to be truth?

~Lady~:

@Frizzy

You're still quoting the Barnabas gospel.
Do you believe the Gospel to be truth?

If I don't then why have I decided to post it.

Chapter 33 IDOLATRY REBUKED

Then Jesus said: "Truly all that which a man loves, for which he leaves everything else but that, is his god. And so the fornicator has for his image the harlot, the glutton and drunkard has for image his own flesh, and the covetous has for his image silver and gold, and so likewise every other sinner." Then said he who had invited him: "Master, which is the greatest sin?"

Jesus answered: "Which is the greatest ruin of a house?" Every one was silent, when Jesus with his finger pointed to the foundation, and said: "If the foundation give way, immediately the house falls in ruin, in such wise that it is necessary to build it up anew: but if every other part give way it can be repaired. Even so then say I to you, that idolatry is the greatest sin, because it deprives a man entirely of faith, and consequently of God; so that he can have no spiritual affection. But every other sin leaves to man the hope of obtaining mercy: and therefore I say that idolatry is the greatest sin." All stood amazed at the speaking of Jesus, for they perceived that it could not in any wise be assailed.

Then Jesus continued: "Remember that which God spoke and which Moses and Joshua wrote in the Law, and you shall see how grave is this sin. God said, speaking to Israel: "You shall not make to yourself any image of those things which are in heaven nor of those things which are under the heaven, nor shall you make it of those things which are above the earth, nor of those which are under the earth; nor of those which are above the water, nor of those which are under the water. For I am your God, strong and jealous, who will take vengeance for this sin upon the fathers and upon their children even to the fourth generation."

Remember how, when our people had made the calf, and when they had worshipped it, by commandment of God Joshua and the tribe of Levi took the sword and slew of them one hundred and twenty thousand of those that did not crave mercy of God. Oh, terrible judgment of God upon the idolaters!"

Chapter 34 JESUS TEACHETH HUMILITY  

There stood before the door one who had his right hand shrunken in such fashion that he could not use it. Whereupon Jesus, having lift up his heart to God, prayed, and then said: "In order that you may know that my words are true, I say, "In the name of God, man, stretch out your infirm hand! " He stretched it out whole, as if it had never had anything wrong with it.

Then with fear of God they began to eat. And having eaten somewhat, Jesus said again: "Truly I say to you, that it were better to burn a city than to leave an evil custom. For on account of such is God wroth with the princes and kings of the earth, to whom God has given the sword to destroy iniquities."

Afterwards said Jesus: "When you are invited, remember not to set yourself in the highest place, in order that if a greater friend of the host come the host say not to you: "Arise and sit lower down!' which were a shame to you. But go and sit in the meanest place, in order that he who invited you may come and say: "Arise, friend, and come and sit here, above!" For then shall you have great honour: for every one that exalts himself shall be humbled, and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.

'Truly I say to you, that Satan became not reprobate for any other sin than for his pride. Even as says the prophet Isaiah;, reproaching him with these words: "How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, that were the beauty of the angels, and did shine like the dawn: truly to earth is fallen your pride!"

'Truly I say to you, that if a man knew his miseries, he would always weep here on earth and account himself most mean, beyond every other thing. For no other cause did the first man with his wife weep for a hundred years without ceasing, craving mercy of God. For they knew truly where they had fallen through their pride."

And having said this, Jesus gave thanks; and that day it was published through Jerusalem how great things Jesus had said, with the miracle he had wrought, insomuch that the people gave thanks to God blessing his holy name.

But the scribes and priests, having understood that he spoke against the traditions of the elders, were kindled with greater hatred. And like Pharaoh they hardened their heart: wherefore they sought occasion to slay him, but found it not.

Islam is the true God . You fools you !

Florency:

The Great Religion is the true God . You fools you !

@florency
Are you a Muslim?

@~Lady~: You continue to say that a covenant was made with Ibrahiim, through a son of his. That is a nn no. Your greatest mistake and misunderstanding of the whole realtionship between God Almighty and he, Ibrahiim. Whatever the covenant was, it just cover his progenies. First the line of saac received the manifestation of it and in ended with Jesus. Then the line of Ismail completed the who covenent with Mu.ha.mm.ad, alone. They say once is enough. Have you ever heard that? And you as a woman does not want your husband to have another woman, because you think you are enough. Right?

Now M.uh.amm.ad is that end all to Prophethood. And am circumcised because of the covenant of Ibrahiim with his Lord. I am not circumcised because I am a Yoruba, except as a sign of I.sl.am, (Iman). And Jesus being a Messiah, it was for his people alone, the nations of the children of Israel; the Jews. Jesus had no authority beyond his people. And succession of prophets were brought about because of the continuous rebellious acts/behaviours of the children of Israel. A prophet was to guide and lead. People who are on the right path, after being guided from wrong, if they continue to remain on the right path, would not need a new guidian, a prophet. From the Bible you see that the Children of Israel remained astray, after every prophet. They turned back to doing evil. This was the reason that they had prophets after prophets and jesus being the last of them.

God then raised the children of Ibrahiim, still but now through the Ismail bloodline, and Mu.ham.m.ad was the only prophet to cancel all the tribalist and regional terminology of chosen people of God. Salvation and guidance is now universal and not through the children of Israel.

All of these above you can find in Qu.r'a.n. I don't know how to assist you if you are bugged down with thinking that the term messiah means more than just the title it was. What about the title friend of God that Ibrahiim was? What about Moses wo God spoke to amny times without an Angel between them? What happens with the verses of the Bible disclaiming that Jesus God? Can you honestly disregard those verses?

Its funny how the christians are making this leap of faith putting this simple man, Jesus in a position that he never had claimed for himself. And never did your Bible claim that Ismail's children will be the wild asses of men. Your Bible said he Ismail himself, yet you can not point to a single act of wilding that he performed.

And just because your Bible praised Isaac, we are all well aware that his son Jacob was full of deceit even supported by his own wife against another son, Esau! And Jacob did not stop there. And his sons never faired better because the sold his favorite son Joseph and deceived him afterwards. And my thinking lowly about Arabs does not mean I think better of the Children of Israel, either. They are the same and we see that they are full of deceit every which way till sunday.

It is the same Jews that Nigeria was using to extracate Umar Dikko (And that fool should be ashamed of himself) to Nigeria. It is the same Jews who after they got payment for it tipped off the M I5 and M I6 of British intelligence about it. So you see they are even worse than the Arabs. Either way, your Biblical prophesies are wrong. I guess the Bible is batting 0 for 2 on the mound here. They are not even foul balls, and just one more it will be three strikes and you know you are out!

@~Lady~:

Of course not, the Bible doesn't focus on the son that the covenant was not to come through. Besides the Bible says that he and his mother was dismissed. But since the Qu'ran has the answers show me Ishmeal and his bloodline.

If he and his mother were dismissed and his father forgot all about him, how was it possible that the Jews knew about him and his children? If somebody was forgotten, as a child (You could never guess the age of Ismail when the separation occurred), how can those people who never were born knew enough about him? Except the separation is not a matter of totally forgetting about him. We see that Ibrahiim continued to visit him and his mother. It is a natural thing for the old man to keep the childless old woman with him in the house. And to transfer the younger and more energetic mother, who could weather the time of being alone more vigorously.

And we see that Ibrahiim built the Ka aba in Makka with his son Ismail helping him. And we see that the remembrance of the rite of sacrifice is observed by the Musl.i.ms yearly. The christians and Jews do not observe it,because it is clearly not something that concerns them. I wonder why they claim it is Isaac and yet never a time did they observe it. The Jews should be ashamed of their lies. And the Christians do not fair better either.

Finally the most important of all the Children of Ibrahiim, from all the two major bloodlines, is M.u,hh.ammad. This is enough for me.

If I don't then why have I decided to post it. Huh

So you believe that muhaaamad is the messiah and that Mary gave birth without pains.

So much for the Qu'ran being the truth.

@~Lady~: You continue to say that a covenant was made with Ibrahiim, through a son of his. That is a nn no. Your greatest mistake and misunderstanding of the whole realtionship between God Almighty and he, Ibrahiim. Whatever the covenant was, it just cover his progenies. First the line of saac received the manifestation of it and in ended with Jesus. Then the line of Ismail completed the who covenent with Mu.ha.mm.ad, alone. They say once is enough. Have you ever heard that? And you as a woman does not want your husband to have another woman, because you think you are enough. Right?

Ok so I'm going to post this for you, so that you may know what the Bible truly says, because clearly you don't understand me.

Genesis 17: 15-22

15 God further said to Abraham: "As for your wife Sarai, do not call her Sarai; her name shall be Sarah
15 I will bless her, and I will give you a son by her. Him also will I bless; he shall give rise to nations, and rulers of peoples shall issue from him."
17 Abraham prostrated himself and laughed as he said to himself, "Can a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Or can Sarah give birth at ninety?"
18 Then Abraham said to God, "Let but Ishmeal live on by your favor!"
19 God replied: "Nevertheless, your wife Sarah is to bear a son, and you shall name him Isaac. I will maintain my covenant with him as an everlasting pact, to be his God and the God of his descendants after him.
20 As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of him a great nation.
21 But my covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear you by this time next year.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

And Jesus being a Messiah, it was for his people alone, the nations of the children of Israel; the Jews. Jesus had no authority beyond his people.

Tell that to the prophecies.

God then raised the children of Ibrahiim, still but now through the Ismail bloodline, and Mu.ham.m.ad was the only prophet to cancel all the tribalist and regional terminology of chosen people of God.

After it was done centuries before. Tell this to the Christians who were not Jewish.

All of these above you can find in Qu.r'a.n. I don't know how to assist you if you are bugged down with thinking that the term messiah means more than just the title it was.

Then tell me the meaning of the term messiah.

What about the title friend of God that Ibrahiim was? What about Moses wo God spoke to amny times without an Angel between them? What happens with the verses of the Bible disclaiming that Jesus God? Can you honestly disregard those verses?

First no Bible verse disclaims that Jesus is God. Muuslims in their desperate quests and lack of understanding interpret it to be that way.
The title of friend of God still stays with Abraham and same with Moses. Your point is? That what you're saying supports the Bible? Seriously man you're sounding like a fish without water.

Its funny how the christians are making this leap of faith putting this simple man, Jesus in a position that he never had claimed for himself.

Lol. Are you so sure? The witnesses and history claim it to be that he did say that. Why was he crucified again?
It's funny how the Jewish history supports the Christian history in that Jesus did claim to be the messiah and that he was crucified. Because he claimed to be the messiah, he was crucified.
Define messiah for me.

And just because your Bible praised Isaac, we are all well aware that his son Jacob was full of deceit even supported by his own wife against another son, Esau! And Jacob did not stop there. And his sons never faired better because the sold his favorite son Joseph and deceived him afterwards. And my thinking lowly about Arabs does not mean I think better of the Children of Israel, either. They are the same and we see that they are full of deceit every which way till sunday.

Well goody you understand how God works. Stop trying to make claim that the Christians claim that Isaac's sons were perfect. We don't praise Isaac or say that Ishmael is worse than Isaac. If you read the Bible you will see that Ishmael is mentioned and never was it said that the guy was bad. I can be a woman of the wild (a wild woman) and not have that be a bad thing,
Seriously stop thinking of the wild as bad. Besides later on it goes on to talk about the children of Ishmael and the prophecy about him opposing his kinsmen came true there.

It is the same Jews that Nigeria was using to extracate Umar Dikko (And that fool should be ashamed of himself) to Nigeria. It is the same Jews who after they got payment for it tipped off the M I5 and M I6 of British intelligence about it. So you see they are even worse than the Arabs. Either way, your Biblical prophesies are wrong. I guess the Bible is batting 0 for 2 on the mound here. They are not even foul balls, and just one more it will be three strikes and you know you are out!

Hatred is not the way to go. No one is praising the Isrealites. Dude misunderstanding is not good. I have come across jews that I can't stand and Arabs that I can't stand either. I am not the one to judge the Jews and say that they are worse than the Arabs, besides I am not the one that called the Arabs wild in a derogatory way, you did. That is your problem not mine. I have come across Arabs that I love and appreciated their friendship.
Stop thinking that the Christians are out against the Arabs. The Arabs are the ones quick to kill.

One more time. Ishmael is not viewed as someone bad in the Bible, but we know that the covenant that God has was to be carried out through the bloodline of Isaac. Even the Bible shows that. Well if it was just ordinarily through Abraham's bloodline that the covenant was to be carried and God did not specify which son, what about Abraham's other sons? Where are their prophets too? Why didn't the completion come from them. Why Ishmael? What about Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Why not them?

Again I ask, what is the covenant? We know the sign of the covenant, now tell me what is the covenant?

If he and his mother were dismissed and his father forgot all about him, how was it possible that the Jews knew about him and his children? If somebody was forgotten, as a child (You could never guess the age of Ismail when the separation occurred), how can those people who never were born knew enough about him?

Please point out where I stated that Abraham forgot his son. Clearly God would not allow that. I believe I answered this above.

It is a natural thing for the old man to keep the childless old woman with him in the house. And to transfer the younger and more energetic mother, who could weather the time of being alone more vigorously.

Hey I am not Abraham. Who knows maybe he preferred an old woman, maybe he couldn't keep up with the young woman, Hey I am not a man.
Abraham did not send Hagar away by his own wish. Sarah requested it. It doesn't make it right, but she requested it. Call it jealousy of a woman.

And we see that Ibrahiim built the Ka aba in Makka with his son Ismail helping him. And we see that the remembrance of the rite of sacrifice is observed by the Musl.i.ms yearly

You still have to prove how credible the Qu'ran is.

Anyway, I can very much enlighten u on the practices of the Arabs before Muhaaamad and why they are so similar.

@~Lady~; As much as I like you, I need to subtly respond to your fallacies. It seems to me that you can not see how wrong you are. I have a better Book, but I will settle for your Bible to point out your mistakes. Its eaither that you can not see the faults and falures of the Bible or you just refuse to agree with truth and stubbornly gling to falsehood.

Ok so I'm going to post this for you, so that you may know what the Bible truly says, because clearly you don't understand me.

Genesis 17: 15-22

15 God further said to Abraham: "As for your wife Sarai, do not call her Sarai; her name shall be Sarah
15 I will bless her, and I will give you a son by her. Him also will I bless; he shall give rise to nations, and rulers of peoples shall issue from him."
17 Abraham prostrated himself and laughed as he said to himself, "Can a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Or can Sarah give birth at ninety?"
18 Then Abraham said to God, "Let but Ishmeal live on by your favor!"
19 God replied: "Nevertheless, your wife Sarah is to bear a son, and you shall name him Isaac. I will maintain my covenant with him as an everlasting pact, to be his God and the God of his descendants after him.
20 As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him. I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve chieftains, and I will make of him a great nation.
21 But my covenant I will maintain with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear you by this time next year.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

Please list the 12 nations that came from Ismail. It must not be less nor more than 12, otherwise the Bible will be wrong, yet again.

And is God now limited t6o the children of Isaac, alone? And before this, was God not the God of all that lived and is He not the God that are now living outside the bloodlines of Isaac? And the covenant still covers the children of Isaac who are evil doers and never believers in One God? Are you aware that the Jews are enmasse Buhddists? They practice Kabala? Are these people who are still covered under any covennants which will prevent them from not suffereing in Hellfire? Do you know the essence of the covenant? If a man/woman ends up in Hellfire, does it mean that he/she benefits from the Covenant?


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Tell that to the prophecies.
[/quote]

Wrong prophesy.


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After it was done centuries before. Tell this to the Christians who were not Jewish.
[/quote]

You guys chose the wrong path. This is the only reason that Surah Fatiha referes to Christianity as a path that leads astray, while Judaism as a path of great wrath.

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Then tell me the meaning of the term messiah.
[/quote]

In I.s.lam it is Massiah; wiped over.

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First no Bible verse disclaims that Jesus is God. Muuslims in their desperate quests and lack of understanding interpret it to be that way.
The title of friend of God still stays with Abraham and same with Moses. Your point is? That what you're saying supports the Bible? Seriously man you're sounding like a fish without water.
[/quote]

I am not in a bowl. I like your analogy. You make me laugh. Please read your Bible very carefully, before you respond to me. Explain the verse Mark 12 Verse 29. How then on the Cross the Bible claim that Jeses cried out "My God, My God, why has thou forsakened me?" It will therefore mean that you have two gods, would it be?

[Quote]
Lol. Are you so sure? The witnesses and history claim it to be that he did say that. Why was he crucified again?
It's funny how the Jewish history supports the Christian history in that Jesus did claim to be the messiah and that he was crucified. Because he claimed to be the messiah, he was crucified.
Define messiah for me.
[/quote]

You asked me the question above and I already answered it. Again, Massiah in I.sl.am means wiped over as in protected. And neither the Jews nor the followers of Jesus could say for sure that he dies on the cross! Remember that his blood never coagulated at anytime. And he did not go through the state of regormortise. Not at anytime in the whole ordeal. And you know it and I know it.

[Quote]
Well goody you understand how God works. Stop trying to make claim that the Christians claim that Isaac's sons were perfect. We don't praise Isaac or say that Ishmael is worse than Isaac. If you read the Bible you will see that Ishmael is mentioned and never was it said that the guy was bad. I can be a woman of the wild (a wild woman) and not have that be a bad thing,
Seriously stop thinking of the wild as bad. Besides later on it goes on to talk about the children of Ishmael and the prophecy about him opposing his kinsmen came true there.
[/quote]

I hope no one will praise me, especially the way the Jews see Ismail, and call me wild and all of a sudden I think its a good thing. Maybe if your enemy calls you wild ass of a woman, they are praising you. ut in my book it is a bad thing and you tried to justfy this on Ismail by using the history of the Arabs. But you want me to forget it when it comes to the evil of the children of Isaac. It does not work that way, darling.

And I wonder all the position of honors that the Jews enjoyed in Andalusia, Spain should be forgotten? What a selection of memories; christian style!

[Quote]
Hatred is not the way to go. No one is praising the Isrealites. Dude misunderstanding is not good. I have come across jews that I can't stand and Arabs that I can't stand either. I am not the one to judge the Jews and say that they are worse than the Arabs, besides I am not the one that called the Arabs wild in a derogatory way, you did. That is your problem not mine. I have come across Arabs that I love and appreciated their friendship.
Stop thinking that the Christians are out against the Arabs. The Arabs are the ones quick to kill.

One more time. Ishmael is not viewed as someone bad in the Bible, but we know that the covenant that God has was to be carried out through the bloodline of Isaac. Even the Bible shows that. Well if it was just ordinarily through Abraham's bloodline that the covenant was to be carried and God did not specify which son, what about Abraham's other sons? Where are their prophets too? Why didn't the completion come from them. Why Ishmael? What about Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak, and Shuah. Why not them?

Again I ask, what is the covenant? We know the sign of the covenant, now tell me what is the covenant?
[/quote]
I have expained the covenant so many times and this will be my last; at least on Nairaland. Ibrahiim disagreed with his idol worshipping people, so he exiled himself from them. He was seeking the true One God and multihead god or gods. Finally he arrived in Jerusalem and settled. He said to his Lord, My life, my death, all my worship and all my deeds are for your pleasure, Oh God. And I am the first (in my generation) to submit my will to you 100% as a M.us.lim.

By this God tested him. God commanded him to separate himself from his son, the apple of his eyes. So he took Ismail and his mother, young Hajah to Makka. In time God tested himsome more about his slaughter of his son. He can only slaughter the only son that he had. If he had two sons, it would never have been a great test. After he passed this second test, he made a prayer in Makka at a place called the station of ibrahiim. Thats in Kaaba/Masjid Haram.

In the prayer, he prayed that all prophets after him should come through his bloodline and to make Makka a secure place. Prophets are leaders for those people that they are sent to. God accepted his prayer with a condition that whoever among his children that worship anything else but He, will not be under that blessing. The sign of the covenant was to circumcise the males. Ibrahim circumcised himself and his only son, Ibrahiim. However after the test of the slaughter the good news of Isiaq and Yakub was delivered. You will agree with me that a person who is supposed to be a father would not be demanded to die at young age, even before the opportunity to become a father.

If this is the case, then the christian/Jewish God wil be cancelling out His own good news before it materialized. And if you are abservant, you will agree with me that the mus.li.ms talked so much about the prophets from the children of israel and even called Mary the best woman ever created, how then will it come to who is supposed to be slaughtered, the m.us.lims will be dishonest in it? It is such a thing that it is so small that you can not imagine the M.us.lims being honest in something more serious and then turn around and be dishonest in this. And the Jews never at anytime observe this rite of slaughter and neither do the christians.

And it is the will of God that many prophets came from the Children of Israel, without any of them being sent to the whole of mankind. You will see that Jesus was not sent to mankind, except his own people. And it is not surprising that Mu.ha, mmad was sent to all of mankind and my friend you do not need more than 1 prophet for it. And it is appropriate that it is the last prophet that should be given that honor. When you read everything and understand it, you will agree with me, without a doubt. And have you noticed that the reoccuring theme of all the prophets is worship one God and do not associate anything with Him? I wonder where the christians fish out their multi persons god?


I know more Jews than you could ever imagine. From Rabbi, to reformed Jews. I do not hate jews. All I discussed with you here I discussed it with Jews if the situation arises. But you reminded me of the conversation t5hat I had with you concerning the Arabs; but you did not talk about hatred then. You were quick to accept as truth. Now who truly hates in a way that begs honesty? I have lived with Jews and Arabs. You have not. I dislike Arabs for their hypocracy when it comes to Is.l.am. For the most part the leadership of the Arabs. I dislike the Jews for their failure to accept guidance. You see the difference.


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Please point out where I stated that Abraham forgot his son. Clearly God would not allow that. I believe I answered this above.
[/quote]

If Ibrahiim never forgot his son Ismail, then how is it that you know the true relationship between the members of the family? I submit to you that the jews wrote the Bible to justify their warped idea about being "chosen people of God!" We see that Ibrahiim continued to have relationship with his son Ismail, even throughout his own lifetime. They built the Ka aba in Makka together and Ibrahiim even suggested that Ismail divorce his first wife. These two conditions are signs that Ibrahiim continued to visit Ismail and his mother in Makka. And only the mus.l.i.ms observe the remembrance of slaughter. Need I say more?

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Hey I am not Abraham. Who knows maybe he preferred an old woman, maybe he couldn't keep up with the young woman, Hey I am not a man.
Abraham did not send Hagar away by his own wish. Sarah requested it. It doesn't make it right, but she requested it. Call it jealousy of a woman.
[/quote]
I am a man and I know how these things work. I disagree with you about the jealousy of a woman. If Sarah had been a jeolous woman, the noble prophet (as) would never have allowed M.us.lim woman to bear Sarah. Again the Bible continues to make false accusation. Let us continue to dialogue, and in time God will open your heart to the truth. A woman can not control the elect of God. Ibrahiim was an elect of God.

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You still have to prove how credible the Qu'ran is.

Anyway, I can very much enlighten u on the practices of the Arabs before Muhaaamad and why they are so similar.
[/quote]

Then tell me how Ka aba is claimed to be built by Ibrahiim and his son Ismail? Afterall, when Ibrahiim left his young family in that outpost, the Kaaba was not there as a building. Tell me why it is the M.u.slims who observe the remembrance and the rites of the slaughter; remember it was a symbolic thing, a proof of obedience to the commandment of God.

@~Lady~; As much as I like you, I need to subtly respond to your fallacies. It seems to me that you can not see how wrong you are. I have a better Book, but I will settle for your Bible to point out your mistakes. Its eaither that you can not see the faults and falures of the Bible or you just refuse to agree with truth and stubbornly gling to falsehood.

The more we dialogue the more I find that the truth does not lie in ISLAM. I really do want to thank you for helping me grow more in my faith and thank God more for his ever saving grace through Christ.

Please list the 12 nations that came from Ismail. It must not be less nor more than 12, otherwise the Bible will be wrong, yet again.

Ishmael had twelve sons. You will not dispute that Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, therefore his 12 sons are the tribes. They have also been mentioned in several literature from of old. These literature make reference to history.

Here are the sons:
Nebaioth
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam
Misham
Dumah
Massa
Hadad
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah.

I asked you to really know the Bible before you comment and demand the authenticity of it. You will be amazed.

It's funny while doing research I stumbled upon a website in favour of Islam, I believe it's answeringchristianity.com or something like that. In their quest to prove that Ishmael was not a wild man, which is not regarded as a bad thing, they make a mistake and made a statement that insinuates that Ishmael isn't he father of the Arabs and that Pagan Arab existed before and Ishmael was fighting their practices. Take note to the below:

Ishmael was a wild man, and a "blessed" one by GOD Almighty (Gen. 17:19-21). He fought the pagan Arabs who practiced brutal slavery and degradation of women. It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom to bury daughters alive at the age of 4, because a birth of a female brought shame to the family. Many pagan Arabs used to practice it.

http://answering-christianity.com/ishmael_great_nation.htm

I keep making warnings to be careful not to contradict yourself, not just you Olabowale but muuuslims in general, it may come back to haunt you.

And is God now limited t6o the children of Isaac, alone? And before this, was God not the God of all that lived and is He not the God that are now living outside the bloodlines of Isaac? And the covenant still covers the children of Isaac who are evil doers and never believers in One God?

No God is not limited to the Children of Isaac, the Bible and the Torah do not remotely state that. Even the Torah/Old Testament testifies that God delivered not just the ISrealites but others as well and that he regarded others as his children:
"Are you not as the sons of Ethiopia to Me,O sons of Israel?" declares the LORD "Have I not brought up Israel from the land of Egypt,And the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir?

You see just as God punished the Ethiopians and Arabs and Egypt and other nations, he also punished the Isrealites. When he showed favour to the Isrealites he also showed favour to the other nations, especially when he was punishing the Isrealites. He gave victory to other nations and gifts to those in those nations that proclaimed him to be God. If they wanted to show that they are the favourites, why then would they include their destruction? Why wouldn't they just call everyone evil and say that they are the only blessed ones?
Like I said make sure you know the Bible before you start making claims, you will be highly surprised.

They never showed Ishmael to be a mad man. They never showed Ishmael to be evil. According to the Bible and the Torah, Ishmael was not evil and a promise was made to him that he will have a great nation and truly Arabia is a great nation.
I am still trying to understand why you're trying to prove that Ishmael is not a bad man, when even the Bible doesn't lay claim to it.
Yeah he was called a wild man. So was John the Baptist, and we hold him in high regards. He was the one that showed us to baptise with water, while Christ baptised with the Spirit.
Yet he was weird and he lived in the wild and he ate lcusts and honey. Tell me why would a man who ate locusts and honey be held in high regards.
Stop reading too much into nothing.

And the covenant still covers the children of Isaac who are evil doers and never believers in One God?

How are they not believers in one God. Be careful not to allow hatred to take over you and cause you to make false claims. If you're referring to the Golden calf, that would only go to show that they didn't skew the Torah and that they even put their wrong doings in there. Why would I want to show that I am bad and an evil doer or a disobedient child when writing my history that I want people to think that I am the only favoured child?

[quoteAre you aware that the Jews are enmasse Buhddists?]

[/quote]

And there are Jews that are muuuslims too. Islam is a religion, Buddhism is a religion, just as you have converts from Judaism to Islam, you have converts to Buddhism. Don't forget you also have from Islam to Christianity. If we are to condemn people and judge them as bad then we're all condemned, and yes that includes me and you.

[quote]They practice Kabala? Are these people who are still covered under any covennants which will prevent them from not suffereing in Hellfire?

And there are muuslims who commit adultery and rape innocent children, are these people who are still covered under any cocenants which will prevent them from suffering in hellfire?
come on man you can do better than this. this is poor scholarship. this isn't the way to handle a discussion or a debate. come on do better.

Do you know the essence of the covenant? If a man/woman ends up in Hellfire, does it mean that he/she benefits from the Covenant?

Same question to the muuuslims. Like I said, do better.

Wrong prophesy.

Prove it. You can't say that the prophecy is wrong, when the Christians and Jews had so much tension between them about the prophecies.

You guys chose the wrong path. This is the only reason that Surah Fatiha referes to Christianity as a path that leads astray, while Judaism as a path of great wrath.

I don't care what the Surah says. Far as I'm concerned you haven't proven the authenticity to me. And I have gone so far as to read the book. Man come on. Come on do better.

In I.s.lam it is Massiah; wiped over.

Yeah um the term is messiah. Even in the Qu'ran. I know I saw it. Now the definiton of messiah is?
Don't forget that the word existed before Islam arose as it is today, so tell me the meaning, don't forget it's a Hebrew word, so tell me the meaning.

And according to you, Wiped over what?

I am not in a bowl. I like your analogy. You make me laugh. Please read your Bible very carefully, before you respond to me. Explain the verse Mark 12 Verse 29. How then on the Cross the Bible claim that Jeses cried out "My God, My God, why has thou forsakened me?" It will therefore mean that you have two gods, would it be?

Oh look the desperate cry of a muuslim, rather than show the Islaaamic faith, destroy the faith of others and when they have doubt bring them to Islaaam, wrong tactic to be used on me, try again.

What you posted had nothing to do with my statement. So try again. We already discussed this part, but let me indulge you anyway. Christ is God in the flesh. Yes you have the head huncho, the big man himself GOD, and then you have himslef that he manifested in the flesh, because he is God and is capable of anything but lying. And then you have his spirit who guides.

I do have this question though. Do muuuslims believe that Jesus was the Word of God and the Spirit of God? Because the Qu'ran calls him that.

"Sura 4:171

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs"

Funny how the Qu'ran contradicts itself. How can one man be the Word of God and the Spirit of God and not be God? How can Olabowale be the Spirit of Efeosa, or Efeosa's word? (I really do want you to answer this)

Muhaamad made a very bad mistake by not understanding the meanings and the origins of words, when he spoke of the messiah and the trinity. I will address the trinity here.

TRINITY: This Latin word means "the number three, a triad", an abstract noun formed from the adjective trinus (three each, threefold, triple), as the word unitas is the abstract noun formed from unus (one).

So you see three forms in one (unity). It's a community (hope you get the joke there, haha)

You asked me the question above and I already answered it. Again, Massiah in I.sl.am means wiped over as in protected. And neither the Jews nor the followers of Jesus could say for sure that he dies on the cross! Remember that his blood never coagulated at anytime. And he did not go through the state of regormortise. Not at anytime in the whole ordeal. And you know it and I know it.

No I don't. I was not there and neither were you and neither was Muhaaamad. So no we do not know whether his body rigor mortised. Tell me, if I come to you and I say that my grandmother is dead, do I have to say that her body became rigor mortised in order for you to believe me. When Abraham died, did the Qu'ran say that his body was rigor mortised in order for you to know that he was dead? Or did they say the same for Ishmael, or better yet Muhaamad?
We do know that a blood can coagulate and a person be alive, so come up with something better.

Um go over the wiped over thing for me again, I don't see the relationsip it has with protection. I didn't know to protect, you had to wipe over.

But you want me to forget it when it comes to the evil of the children of Isaac

Do not accuse me of what I do not do.
I remember saying that there are Jews that I cannot stand, and never have I praised the Jews.

I have expained the covenant so many times and this will be my last; at least on Nairaland. Ibrahiim disagreed with his idol worshipping people, so he exiled himself from them. He was seeking the true One God and multihead god or gods. Finally he arrived in Jerusalem and settled. He said to his Lord, My life, my death, all my worship and all my deeds are for your pleasure, Oh God. And I am the first (in my generation) to submit my will to you 100% as a M.us.lim.

By this God tested him. God commanded him to separate himself from his son, the apple of his eyes. So he took Ismail and his mother, young Hajah to Makka. In time God tested himsome more about his slaughter of his son. He can only slaughter the only son that he had. If he had two sons, it would never have been a great test. After he passed this second test, he made a prayer in Makka at a place called the station of ibrahiim. Thats in Kaaba/Masjid Haram.

In the prayer, he prayed that all prophets after him should come through his bloodline and to make Makka a secure place. Prophets are leaders for those people that they are sent to. God accepted his prayer with a condition that whoever among his children that worship anything else but He, will not be under that blessing. The sign of the covenant was to circumcise the males. Ibrahim circumcised himself and his only son, Ibrahiim. However after the test of the slaughter the good news of Isiaq and Yakub was delivered. You will agree with me that a person who is supposed to be a father would not be demanded to die at young age, even before the opportunity to become a father

Of course, why didn't I think of that. That is the only wya that Muhaaamad could legitimise his claim. The covenant had to just be that there will be prophets. Of course this makes it easy for muuslims to just say that the prophets had to just come from the bloodline of Abraham. Now what I want to know is why were they all Isrealites (until muhaaamad ofcourse), why didn't God just shuffle and give all the sons of Abraham their own prophets, this woud still fulfill the covenant. Why are there so many from Isaac's line and just one from Ishmael's line? I thought Ishmael was the first son? Why did God just bypass him and not give him his birthright? Certainly the oldest son would be the leader, and God would make sure that most of the Prophets are from his line, I mean that's just not fair and it's not right. How can the Prophets of God come from the younger brother's bloodline? Does that make sense? Would a Just God ignore the firstborn son of his friend? That doesn't seem right. What religion and culture makes that right?
(be very careful how you answer these, you don't want to contradict yourself)

What did the Prophets Prophecy? Certainly they were prophets, so they had to prophecy. Don't tell me what the Bible says that shows Muhaamad, and don't show me the prophecies of the quran. I want to know what prophecies in the quran Moses prophecied and Jesus prophecied and Noah prophecied and so on and so forth.

And it is not surprising that Mu.ha, mmad was sent to all of mankind and my friend you do not need more than 1 prophet for it

How is it not surprising that Muhaaamad was sent to all of mankind, but it is surprising that Jesus was set to all of mankind?
I thought they were all just prophets, aren't they on the same level?

If Ibrahiim never forgot his son Ismail, then how is it that you know the true relationship between the members of the family?

We know the true relationship because he never forgot. Seriously did you really just ask that question? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Maybe I don't understand this english language anymore. Can someone veify that he asked this question? please.

I am a man and I know how these things work. I disagree with you about the jealousy of a woman. If Sarah had been a jeolous woman, the noble prophet (as) would never have allowed M.us.lim woman to bear Sarah. Again the Bible continues to make false accusation. Let us continue to dialogue, and in time God will open your heart to the truth. A woman can not control the elect of God. Ibrahiim was an elect of God.

I am a woman and I know how these things work. If your husband is sleeping with another woman, even though it is his wife, you are bound to be jealous.
The Bible doesn't say that she was jealous. That was just me coming to a conclusion on my own o, no go talk sey Bible talk am, because it didn't.
I don't care if Muhaaamad allowed the name Sarah to be used. If I was not a muuuslim or a christian or a Jew, I would use the name Sarah because I like it and because it means princess.
Sarah was his wife. You're speaking as if you don't have a wife. You seriously think that because Abraham was an elect, Sarah couldn't be a wife to him. Sarah wouldn't tell him what she liked and didn't like. I thought Muhaaamad was an elect of God and his wives had a say in his life. Or did he just order them around. I though Islaaam brought freedom to women, lol.

Then tell me how Ka aba is claimed to be built by Ibrahiim and his son Ismail?

Simple the same way Muhaaamad claims a lot of things. He put it in the Qu'ran.

Afterall, when Ibrahiim left his young family in that outpost, the Kaaba was not there as a building

I thought Adam built it. How is it now that Abraham and Ishmael built it?

Tell me why it is the M.u.slims who observe the remembrance and the rites of the slaughter; remember it was a symbolic thing, a proof of obedience to the commandment of God

Because Muhaaamad said so. I thought it was that simple.
Look Muhaaamad certainly encountered Christians and Jews, they were all around him. Of course he couldn't understand their views and the words.
Why didn't he just become a Christian or Jew? It was foreign to him. The Arabian culture was very much a part of him. It was his character. He still wanted the wives and he still wanted to raid people. It was his culture. It's funny how he was the only one allowed to have that many wives. When the revelation came to him that muuuslims could marry more than one wife, they questioned him on why he had more, and lo and behold another revelation saying that "Any woman who wishes to dedicate her soul to the prophet, if the prophet wishes to marry her, this only for you and not for the believers."
or is it when he wanted to marry Zaid's wife that he received a revelation that said that God gave Zainab to him.
The Surahs covered his actions. He received the revelations conveniently. No wonder it was revealed over time.

@ Frizzy

You still believe the Gospel of Barnabas to be true or do you believe the Qu'ran? Lol.

way to go lady
i think olabowale 'the jesus basher' has finally met his match, though i still do not suscribe to the tearing down of each other's faiths
i wish you guys spent more time talking about what your religion has to offer (if it really does) and less time arguing
then you may actually win someone to your side, the substance of faiths lies in what comfot and peace it has to offer to mortals else, they are just carrying on with their own agenda for world domination based on ego
If i may ask, neither of you guys converted religions meaning you are just carrying on with what you were indoctrinated in as a child im sure so what makes you right and the other wroong?
abeg stop carrying on with venomous attacks on each other and send time loking for ways to make nigeria better, religious intolerance wont help anyone
kapische?

~Lady~:

@ Frizzy

You still believe the Gospel of Barnabas to be true or do you believe the Qu'ran? Lol.

How many times will I explain to you guys that the Gospel of Barnabas' minute differences from the Ko'ran has nothing to with your belief in what God is.
The Ko'ran is perfect and the Gospel may not be 100% accurate but is 1000% truer than what the fabricated Pauline bible says. The Ko'ran further explains that the doctors of law and rabbis changed the word told (to)them for another saying.
So All'ah cursed them and promise them the penalty of burning except those who repent and make known the truth before dying- which Paul for example did not!

where is the "Good News" of Jesus?

what is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God Jesus preach?


and were is the 2000 Gospel of the Saint?

waiting for my inquiry.

"Sura 4:171

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is One God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs"

Funny how the Qu'ran contradicts itself. How can one man be the Word of God and the Spirit of God and not be God? How can Olabowale be the Spirit of Efeosa, or Efeosa's word? (I really do want you to answer this)

You see when we say you're ignorant, you take offense. The "word" God described according to the Ko'ran is when He says: "Be-and it is".
This explains God plans can't be frustrated if He commands something, it must be done.This is not like your bible that says: In the beginning was God and the Word was God. Get it!

The "word" that most deluded fellows call God is actually meant to be said" In the beginning was God and the Word was God's"

M-uslims and Jews have this in common: their strict adherence to the laws of Moses (or derivatives of it) has made them blind to the coming of Jesus, God incarnate.

-> The Jews persecuted and killed Jesus [helping him to accomplish His Mission].

-> The M'uslims struggle hard to prove that Jesus is not God incarnate.

-> Meanwhile, M'uslims and Jews are at perpetual loggerheads.

-> Truly, the law leads to death.

@Reindeer: What am not is a Jesus basher. So to title as such is not what is right. However, I do speak the truth about Jesus, whether or not it agrees or disagrees with the christian view points, is not my concern.

@~Lady~: I draw you to the progenies of Ismail to provr many points; One of them is that even though Ibrahim separated his younger wife and the first son, from the main house, he never at anytime stop being a family to them. How else would you have been able to know the "children and tribes" of Ismail, if he and his mother were abandoned, forever?

Further, if this above did happened, since we see the relics of continued relations between father and son, by the building of the Ka aba in Makka, it would not be impossible that when the dream of slaughter occurred, Ibrahim looked towards the already disposed off son to bear the brunt! I am not saying thats what happened from the Q.ur'anic point of view, but using your Bible to suggest that if your Abraham cared less for a child, he would probably opt to slaughter him, if he had a choice. How would he be able to pull it off with a woman who had only a child at old age and was even bold that she forced God to agree with her to the point that Abraham was commanded to send his first son and his younger wife away? He would not have done it if God did not command him to send them away. And God would not have commanded him, except Sarah was unhappy and wished to get rid of mother and child team. (Sincerely, it behoves me to understand why a woman who encouraged her husband to perform adultery will now send the child and mother out of the house. Was this before isaac was born, or while he was still a child that shame was still foreign to him or when? Please thread carefully before you answer. I have a ton of reasons for putting all of this out for your observation).

Ishmael had twelve sons. You will not dispute that Ishmael is the father of the Arabs, therefore his 12 sons are the tribes. They have also been mentioned in several literature from of old. These literature make reference to history.

Here are the sons:
Nebaioth
Kedar
Adbeel
Mibsam
Misham
Dumah
Massa
Hadad
Tema
Jetur
Naphish
Kedemah.

I asked you to really know the Bible before you comment and demand the authenticity of it. You will be amazed.

It's funny while doing research I stumbled upon a website in favour of The Great Religion, I believe it's answeringchristianity.com or something like that. In their quest to prove that Ishmael was not a wild man, which is not regarded as a bad thing, they make a mistake and made a statement that insinuates that Ishmael isn't he father of the Arabs and that Pagan Arab existed before and Ishmael was fighting their practices. Take note to the below:

Ishmael was a wild man, and a "blessed" one by GOD Almighty (Gen. 17:19-21).  He fought the pagan Arabs who practiced brutal slavery and degradation of women.  It was part of the pagan Arabs' custom to bury daughters alive at the age of 4, because a birth of a female brought shame to the family.  Many pagan Arabs used to practice it.

http://answering-christianity.com/ishmael_great_nation.htm

I keep making warnings to be careful not to contradict yourself, not just you Olabowale but muuuslims in general, it may come back to haunt you.

Would I know more about the beginning of the Binis of Edo state, if I am not a Bini man, and never live there, than a Bini blooded person? Is this possible? Could anybody know the story/history of the arabs, before Ismail's arrival to Makka than a cultural arab? It is impossible. From history, we know that Ibrahiim and sarah travelled to Egypt and some other parts of the closely alligned territories. One would wonder why he dropped off the young wife and son in Makka, except that he knew that it is not totally isolated and desolated. It was a cross road of journeys to greater Transjordan/middle east, vis a vis Syria, etc. It is a route that the "Arab" Yemeni's used to take. They used to encamp with there caavan i this place known as Makka, way long before Ibrahiim came along. Anyone who reads the history of Makka will know that the Arabic language, a sematic language was spoken by many people (Yemeni is a group), before Ismail andhis mother settled in Makka. What made Makka a place that could sustain any population is the water well known as Zam Zam.

Was Oduduwa the father of all the Yorubas? Hardly, because Oduduwas was not the only man that was in the entourage of people that settled in the area and produced the people known as Yorubas. There are many men who have their spouses in this famous group. However, was Oduduwa the main male character or the leadership? Yes. This is the case with the Makkans. We also know that idolatry was introduced to the Makkan arabs and kept in the Kaaba by an outsider Arab traveller. You will agree with me that when the place, the kaaba was built by Ibrahim and ismail, there were no idols housed in it. It is a later thing, just like many other things (Trinity).

No God is not limited to the Children of Isaac, the Bible and the Torah do not remotely state that. Even the Torah/Old Testament testifies that God delivered not just the ISrealites but others as well and that he regarded others as his children:
"Are you not as the sons of Ethiopia to Me,O sons of Israel?" declares the LORD "Have I not brought up Israel from the land of Egypt,And the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir?

You see just as God punished the Ethiopians and Arabs and Egypt and other nations, he also punished the Isrealites. When he showed favour to the Isrealites he also showed favour to the other nations, especially when he was punishing the Isrealites. He gave victory to other nations and gifts to those in those nations that proclaimed him to be God. If they wanted to show that they are the favourites, why then would they include their destruction? Why wouldn't they just call everyone evil and say that they are the only blessed ones?
Like I said make sure you know the Bible before you start making claims, you will be highly surprised.

They never showed Ishmael to be a mad man. They never showed Ishmael to be evil. According to the Bible and the Torah, Ishmael was not evil and a promise was made to him that he will have a great nation and truly Arabia is a great nation.
I am still trying to understand why you're trying to prove that Ishmael is not a bad man, when even the Bible doesn't lay claim to it.
Yeah he was called a wild man. So was John the Baptist, and we hold him in high regards. He was the one that showed us to baptise with water, while Christ baptised with the Spirit.
Yet he was weird and he lived in the wild and he ate lcusts and honey. Tell me why would a man who ate locusts and honey be held in high regards.
Stop reading too much into nothing.

And I have never read any where that the jews and or the christians have not used the children of Israel as the chosen people of God, against every other people. So your trying to interprete the bible (I expect you to interprete, anyway), or indoctrinate me on what the bible did not say, especially when what I read is opposite what you are suggesting, will not wash with me.

And it is still surprising that a man who was prophesised to be a wild ass of a man, turned out to be blameless according to your reading. But you simply forgot that you have used the behaviour of the present day Arabs (don't forget that you reminded me of my dislike of their behaviour), to justify the 'wild ass of a man' label on him. You are speaking with the opposite sides of the mouth and I am not sure when you are speaking the truth, any longer. Maybe you just say whatever as long as it makes things look good. You can say a person is okay, when he was prophesised to be a wild ass (the prophesy was only on him, and not his progenies), yet you now point to his sons to tell me that the prophesy was never lost (so take a look at the sons of Isaac and see if they faired better).

How are they not believers in one God. Be careful not to allow hatred to take over you and cause you to make false claims. If you're referring to the Golden calf, that would only go to show that they didn't skew the Torah and that they even put their wrong doings in there. Why would I want to show that I am bad and an evil doer or a disobedient child when writing my history that I want people to think that I am the only favoured child?

I therefore wondered why you think that the Qu.r'a.n reminded Prophet Mu.ha.mmad not to frown? If he was was dishoest, such a simple reminder like that he would never would have let anyone know it. In your New Testament of the Bible, was there not a rebuking of the Children of Israel in a general sense of their evil doing? You do know that some evil are so bad that you can not hide it; such is the Golden calf. If your Bible did not divulge it, the Q.u.r'an does. Finally, on this board, the Christians have never let off reminding us that the Children of Israel are chosen people of God. And by the way, I do not have any hatred for jews persee. So don't read any interpretation to my words. I am not the Bible. Read it exactly as you see it and don't interprete.

And there are Jews that are muuuslims too. The Great Religion is a religion, Buddhism is a religion, just as you have converts from Judaism to The Great Religion, you have converts to Buddhism. Don't forget you also have from The Great Religion to Christianity. If we are to condemn people and judge them as bad then we're all condemned, and yes that includes me and you.

InshaAllah, I am not condemned. I maybe bad, which is a fact, but condemned, thats in Hellfire. My Lord God, Al.la.h Taala is very merciful. I long for His forgiveness, as it is written in the Q.ur'a.n.

And there are muuslims who commit adultery and rape innocent children, are these people who are still covered under any cocenants which will prevent them from suffering in hellfire?
come on man you can do better than this. this is poor scholarship. this isn't the way to handle a discussion or a debate. come on do better.

You forgot that there is forgiveness of since. But the greatest sin that must be forgiven before death is idolatry/ multiple head/ multiple persons god worship. This you can not accuse any true m.u.s.lim. If a person in is.l.am does all kinds of evils ad he truly believes in One god and steadfastly observe his prayers, these two and others will gradually get him out of evil deeds and he will seek repentance. And before he dies, his repentance, InshaAllah will be accepted.

But a person who does all kind of goods, but worships multiple god head, eg trinity, idolatry, and the disbelieving of the existence of God, such a person, if he does not change and becomes a M.u.s.lim before death will end up in Hellfire. is it clear now?

Same question to the muuuslims. Like I said, do better.

Prove it. You can't say that the prophecy is wrong, when the Christians and Jews had so much tension between them about the prophecies.

The essence of the covenant is to worship One true God. In the way He lays down His worship and not the way we want it. To do good for His pleasure and to fear His Anger, while at the same time longing for his mercy. And a M.us.lim who is not a hypocrite who enters Hellfire, God willing will be removed from it after he has been puritied of his evil deeds which led him into it. Others, Jews, Christians, Idol woshippers and the none believers in God will remain there in the hellfire, forever. This is in the Qu.r'.an.

And the prophesy that the Jews and the Christians, though have the same bible do disagree with each other, is in the Q.u.r'an. And yes it is very clear that you will never agree with each other.

I don't care what the Surah says. Far as I'm concerned you haven't proven the authenticity to me. And I have gone so far as to read the book. Man come on. Come on do better.

I read the Q'ur'an from 1975 all through January, 1998, and it was in English. And I asked myself if i understood anything from these 17 years exercise. The answer was No. I then picked up Q.ur'an in Arabic. A language I had no clue about. And god opened my heard and I was able to understand it. And I was a m.us.lim all the while. Turn that around to you who comes from a non mu.sl.im family. Your heart was never in finding the truth, you would have known that Surah fatiha (the opening chapter, speaks about the complete glorification of God, the dependence of Believers in Him, and the wrath of God on the disbelieving Jews and other disbelievers and christians being described as the people who are astray) is a speech by God in a command to seek His favor. You would have seen that the few verses of the folloing chapter speak about believers, disbelievers and hypocrites. If these few verses are not enough to open your hear, then i will continue to pray for your heart to become soft anyhow.

[Quote]
Yeah um the term is messiah. Even in the Qu'ran. I know I saw it. Now the definiton of messiah is?
Don't forget that the word existed before The Great Religion arose as it is today, so tell me the meaning, don't forget it's a Hebrew word, so tell me the meaning.

And according to you, Wiped over what?
[/quote]

Massiah, is an Arabic spelling. I am neither a Jew nor a christian, remember? Wiped over or covered over from the influence of satan. That means satan will not even tempt him and he will not do any evil. But of course, the Bible does not have any belief like that. Afterall, he was tempted three times in a row. And according to your argument with me, on the lust after a woman thing, the lust (a form of temptation) is in itself a sin. Therefore, jesus according to the bible committed three sins of temptaions. Well thats even pale compared to the original sin transferred from father Adam. Lol, and thats according to the Bible! Afterall, all man carries that sin and the nature to sin. Now how do you get yourself from this bind that you find your argument?

[Quote]
Oh look the desperate cry of a muuslim, rather than show the Islaaamic faith, destroy the faith of others and when they have doubt bring them to Islaaam, wrong tactic to be used on me, try again.

What you posted had nothing to do with my statement. So try again. We already discussed this part, but let me indulge you anyway. Christ is God in the flesh. Yes you have the head huncho, the big man himself GOD, and then you have himslef that he manifested in the flesh, because he is God and is capable of anything but lying. And then you have his spirit who guides.

I do have this question though. Do muuuslims believe that Jesus was the Word of God and the Spirit of God? Because the Qu'ran calls him that.

"Sura 4:171

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is One God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs"

Funny how the Qu'ran contradicts itself. How can one man be the Word of God and the Spirit of God and not be God? How can Olabowale be the Spirit of Efeosa, or Efeosa's word? (I really do want you to answer this)

Muhaamad made a very bad mistake by not understanding the meanings and the origins of words, when he spoke of the messiah and the trinity. I will address the trinity here.

TRINITY: This Latin word means "the number three, a triad", an abstract noun formed from the adjective trinus (three each, threefold, triple), as the word unitas is the abstract noun formed from unus (one).

So you see three forms in one (unity). It's a community (hope you get the joke there, haha)
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From the onset I made it very clear to you that my purpose is to be a factor in opening I.s.lam to you. i do not see my effort just now as a new thing to you. Our friendship is based on helping you see the truth of I.s.l.am. Hopefully, i will find happiness in the mutual friendship between us. i will never claim that its a one directional flow here. But you have never became a m.us.lim before nor come from i.s lamic bloodline. I have a bloodline in Christianity and i know enough about it to actually know the truth, which it has none in it. The core of truth is absolute. And absolute truth is God is one and should be worshipped as such, in the way he prescribes.

You justified that God is capable of doing anything as if in that state He does not restrict for himself somethings. Then all of a sudden, you said that god is incapable of lying, which would contradict His initially capability of doing all things. Lies are things that immorals. And the actual judge of morality is God. If it was the rules that lies were the true truth all along, you and me as people who follow the rules will have to accept it as the truth. Let me make it clear to you, if homosexual was not agreed to be sexually wrong (living a lie against the norm), then heterosexual people will be the ones who are wrong. That will be according to the fact that the homosexuals considered themselves to be morally correct.

Few years ago, in the 1980s of Hollywood, it became a rage that legal marriage and having children in wedlock was a dying thing. People in hollywood were shacking up with their partners and having children via introvenous and surrogate motherhood. Those few who had normal marriages and family life became the abnormal people. But that id not make it rigjht in the long run.

There are things that god will not do; like eating (and Jesus ate a sign that he was not God, but an ordinary human being), sleep (Jesus slept and slumbered while at it on the vessel. It was in that slumber that they woke him up because his companions, people of little faith, thought their boat was going to perish). Look i can give you a trillion examplesof the things that jesus did that disqualifies him from ever being a god. All of those things God do not do. God does not pray for example, except that He accepts prayers which He commanded people to make.

And to be the word of God does not mean that you become God, rather but His spoken command, a speech. And the speech and command of God is always true, must come to pass. And the spirit of God does not mean that one takes the spirit of God. And then becomes God. Did the bible not say that God breath His spirit into Adam? Was Adam God? The spirit of god is an instrument of God which He uses to effectuate whatever he wishes to effectuate using the spirit. it is a separate thing from God, and it is nothing but an instrument. Let me make it easier for you: A King is different from his crown, his staff, his throne. Each of those things are instrumentsthat can effectuate the will of the king on the subjects. If a messenger delivers a message with the staff in his hand to the highest chief, even though the king is not present, the chief knows that the king was actually the one talking to him! Everyone of us is a spirit of God, His word. If God did not allow my becoming a person, the sexual intercourse, if it would even happen, will just to be part of a usual mutual enjoyment between a husband and a wife. Afterall, not all sexual intercourse result in pregnancy. And if He did not allow my soul to fuse with my flesh, bone and blood, there would not have been anything about me. We see that people experience still birth.

And the Surah of the Q.u'r'an which you stated clearly retuted any ambiquity that jesus could be more than human messenger! I submit to you, again, that he was even restricted in his messengership to the house of Israel.

Am laughing at your inference that refuting that Jesus was God is a misunderstanding or a mistake. How do you justify the quality of human Jesus can be imposed on The One True Creator? What did Jesus create, separate and apart from what has been around before him? Jesus did not even know the end of time. Jesus did not know the season of the fruiting of Figs just because he was hungry from his fast! Jesus did not have any power to stop the satan from tempting him. Jesus did not even have the power to stop people from arresting him, even though as he prayed against it. Jesus did not even have the power that all his prayers be accepted. Jesus did not even have the power to stop his own execution, which from all observations, he wanted no part of it. He was not a willing participant. My darling, I am only using your Bible to point out what you are not seeing. I have to stop here before somebody is tagging with a nasty identity.

And as per your statement, you will see that you separate god from the man who was word and spirit coming from God. Man can not be God. And God can not be man. I can be your word if you speak me, as in capable of giving me directive. And i can be your spirit, if I represent you at that place where i will discharge the instructions as per your directive. There is never a time that i will be you; you are a woman and am a man. There is a gender barrier between the two of us. And thats just one difference. Just imagine what you can get out of that. I do things men do. You do things women do.  Our physiologies are different. Both internally and externally. Now imagine the incompartibility of between God and Jesus? Should I say more about Trinity; a greek word to explain Hebrew life?

How do I explain Bini life using Gambari's expression? Dig it, woman? Lol.

way to go lady
i think olabowale 'the jesus basher' has finally met his match, though i still do not suscribe to the tearing down of each other's faiths
i wish you guys spent more time talking about what your religion has to offer (if it really does) and less time arguing
then you may actually win someone to your side, the substance of faiths lies in what comfot and peace it has to offer to mortals else, they are just carrying on with their own agenda for world domination based on ego
If i may ask, neither of you guys converted religions meaning you are just carrying on with what you were indoctrinated in as a child im sure so what makes you right and the other wroong?
abeg stop carrying on with venomous attacks on each other and send time loking for ways to make nigeria better, religious intolerance wont help anyone
kapische?

Thank you.

If you've been keeping up with the discussions between Olabowale and I, you will see that Olabowale is trying to convert me, but instead of trying to tell me about Islam, he tries to shake my faith in Christianity. The mistake he made was underestimating my faith and my ability to remove my own beliefs when I intend to. I asked him to come to me with facts and not insinuations. I am the type of person where if you want me to buy something you really have to sell it to me and I will definitely analyse every nook and cranny of it (I learned this in accounting, most especially in the branch of auditing). He approaches me with just a belief system, and I want hard facts. So far all he's done is show me that Islaam supports the theory of Judaism and Christianity.

But I do want you as well as Olabowale and others to know that I am not in the converting business. It is not my place. I don't have to fight God's battle, he does it very well. I won't convert Olabowale, the Holy Spirit will.

I also was not indoctrinated into Christianity. As a child I went wherever I was taken to. Particularly by my mother. My mother was not a Christian, she was secular. I was 8 when my mother decided to become a Christian, that's not to say that I didn't know something about it. I did, my uncles, aunts, grandparents were Catholics too. But did I know what it actually meant absolutely not. I jokingly gave my life to Christ several times. Until I started the university and I noticed that I wasn't content with my life. So I went searching and searching, until I found where I truly belonged. I felt God's embrace, I felt his love. That's where I am now, even with my trials, I still proclaim his name and know that he hasn't abandoned me.

I don't attack, I analyse. To me this is an analyses, just as I would analyse a financial statement. If you want me to buy your idea, well you've got to make sure you're telling the truth.

How many times will I explain to you guys that the Gospel of Barnabas' minute differences from the Ko'ran has nothing to with your belief in what God is.
The Ko'ran is perfect and the Gospel may not be 100% accurate but is 1000% truer than what the fabricated Pauline bible says. The Ko'ran further explains that the doctors of law and rabbis changed the word told (to)them for another saying.
So All'ah cursed them and promise them the penalty of burning except those who repent and make known the truth before dying- which Paul for example did not!

Yes it does. You cannot hold something to be true if it contradicts your own belief.
So the question is, do you believe that Muhaaamad is the messiah or that Jesus is the messiah? Do you believe that Mary gave birth without pains, or with pains?

Answer those questions please. DOn't give me the sorry excuse that you just gave.
Just so you know the meaning of Gospel before you use it to shoot yourself in the foot again:

Gospel means truth, so which is it? The truth or the Qu'ran?

where is the "Good News" of Jesus?

what is the Gospel of the Kingdom of God Jesus preach?


and were is the 2000 Gospel of the Saint?

waiting for my inquiry.

When I write these words, do they look backwards or upside down?

There are many threads about this issue, look it up man and stop being lazy.

I know I answered this question already, because I remember you asking it, so go fetch it.

You see when we say you're ignorant, you take offense. The "word" God described according to the Ko'ran is when He says: "Be-and it is".
This explains God plans can't be frustrated if He commands something, it must be done.This is not like your bible that says: In the beginning was God and the Word was God. Get it!

The "word" that most deluded fellows call God is actually meant to be said" In the beginning was God and the Word was God's"

Well thank goodness I know am not ignorant.

The Bible says: IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD, AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. Get it right.

So there's a separation between a man and his word. That's it I am no longer taking the words of Frizzy to be true. Frizzy is not his word, his word is completely something different. So I guess that means that I shouldn't take it that you believe in the Qu'ran even though you've said it many times, because you are not your word.

Thank goodness I am my word and can definitely be trusted.

Now if you will please address the Spirit issue. I didn't only ask about the word. Thanks.

@~Lady~

No I don't. I was not there and neither were you and neither was Muhaaamad. So no we do not know whether his body rigor mortised. Tell me, if I come to you and I say that my grandmother is dead, do I have to say that her body became rigor mortised in order for you to believe me. When Abraham died, did the Qu'ran say that his body was rigor mortised in order for you to know that he was dead? Or did they say the same for Ishmael, or better yet Muhaamad?
We do know that a blood can coagulate and a person be alive, so come up with something better.

First the Q.ur'an did not continue to come after the death of Prophet M.u.hammad (AS). Anything you read in it was sometime before death came to him. And since you said that prophet M.u.hammad was not there when crucifixion happened, but you forgot that neither did any of the Prophets from the children of Israel was there when the creations of things were happening. Right? But you believed them because they were prophets, right? You also believed the obliteration or abrogation of the Laws of the Old testament, by the laws of the New Testaments. One law replaces an older belief. And they are completely different from each other. If you believe in the bible because of the prophets and accept new things of NT over the old things of OT, then just imagine what happens to the Q.ur'an, a completely new things and making clear of the things that are correct, worth keeping and incorrect, must be discarded from the Torah (OT), Sabur (Psalm) and Injil (NT)! If you can believe people who were not there when God created the Angels, accepting their words that Angels are created beings, please be assured that a prophet who God said that He ended the office of prophethood with was more important that all the prophets combined, in speech and in all aspects of his life. What God revealed to Mu.h.ammad is far more superior than what some Bible inspired writers said that jesus said about some divinity. The Qur'a.n says that no man who is given the office of prophethood, given commandments and wisdom about worship of God, will turn around and tells anyone to worship him instead! The Q.u;r'an makes it very clear and Jesus could never ever would have said it.

Um go over the wiped over thing for me again, I don't see the relationsip it has with protection. I didn't know to protect, you had to wipe over.

There is a zillion and more things I can go over with you. Your heart will have to be able to take it. Right now am not sure. Cover, wipe over, protect means to prevent from. God Almighty prevents the Satan to et to jesus. So he created him, his mother also without a Satanic enemy; a Jinn. Satan for example can not stop our prayer from being rising to heavens. It is up to God to accept it. This is why you see the prayers of disbelivers in distress being acceptable. Afterall, how else can a disbeliever becomes a believer, except that God accepts his repentance?

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Do not accuse me of what I do not do.
I remember saying that there are Jews that I cannot stand, and never have I praised the Jews.
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You may not praise the Jews with your lips, but your Bible and all the christian leadership praise them. When you said that the children of Ismail have the hands of others on them and or their hands on others, we must therefore examine the progenies of Isaac, under the same microscope. I did not see any difference. But of course the children of ismail were not in question as to the Biblical God's command about ismail's wilding. And we did not see Ismail raised his hand to strike anyone, and no record that anyone ever struck him. If we look at this prophesy from the Bible, we will see that either the Bible writers lied or it is the fallacy of thr Biblical god to actually fulfill His promise. The answer is clear that the writers are at fault here. This is a reoccurring theme throughout the Bible.


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What did the Prophets Prophecy? Certainly they were prophets, so they had to prophecy. Don't tell me what the Bible says that shows Muhaamad, and don't show me the prophecies of the the great book. I want to know what prophecies in the the great book Moses prophecied and Jesus prophecied and Noah prophecied and so on and so forth.
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Do you accept them as prophets and you are asking me about their prophesies? The central theme of all phophetic offices is that There is no god to be worshipped except God Almighty. To never associate anything with this glorious God. To know that He created all things, seen and unseen. To know that there is a day of Judgement; paradise as a goodly reward and hellfire a means of punishment. Let me just satisfy you with some of ibrahiim prophesies: All true prophets will come from his loin. That he prophesised that he was slaughtering his son. Do you want me to go through more of them? They are mostly Makkan oriented, as they deal with Hajj, etc. I think you should be satisfied with these, yet its just to whet the appetite for a person who yawn for truth.

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How is it not surprising that Muhaaamad was sent to all of mankind, but it is surprising that Jesus was set to all of mankind?
I thought they were all just prophets, aren't they on the same level?
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Yes they were all prophets. But they are all in different levels. One erraded the coming of the other? Thats part of the prophethood of Jesus. Muha.mm.ad came to seal off the office of prophethood. Definitely Noah was higher than David. Or Moses is higher than John the Baptist. Jesus was higher than Zachariah. Even your Bible stated that John claimed that he was not even able tp carry the sandals of Jesus. Remember?

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We know the true relationship because he never forgot. Seriously did you really just ask that question? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Maybe I don't understand this english language anymore. Can someone veify that he asked this question? please.
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Oh , Efeosa, you are funny. You make me laugh. I was making you realise what the Bible said is different from the reality of the relationship. The Bible said Ismail was sent out, abandoned to rot, it seemed. Devoid of his father's love. But we see that you are the same person quoting Ismail's lineage. You will agree that one flow is going against the other flow. If there is a directional flow, after all of this, we will see that one direction is weak. What is weak in your argument is that because an older man decided to live in the same house with his Old and long standing wife, it does not directly means that the younger wife and the first son are abandoned. If I marry a 20something woman, i will get her, her own house instead of leaving the old 50something woman who may be unsure of herself if I am not with her. You see the reality of human dynamics? lol!


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I am a woman and I know how these things work. If your husband is sleeping with another woman, even though it is his wife, you are bound to be jealous.
The Bible doesn't say that she was jealous. That was just me coming to a conclusion on my own o, no go talk sey Bible talk am, because it didn't.
I don't care if Muhaaamad allowed the name Sarah to be used. If I was not a muuuslim or a christian or a Jew, I would use the name Sarah because I like it and because it means princess.
Sarah was his wife. You're speaking as if you don't have a wife. You seriously think that because Abraham was an elect, Sarah couldn't be a wife to him. Sarah wouldn't tell him what she liked and didn't like. I thought Muhaaamad was an elect of God and his wives had a say in his life. Or did he just order them around. I though Islaaam brought freedom to women, lol.
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If you know all of this above, how then was it made to believe that Sarah truly has a strong say on the outcome of how Hajah and ismail ended up in Makka? All all time god was the Controller of the situations of each prophet. It is clear to us that Ibrahim was tested by the events in his life, including how his younger wife (A big test for a very old man) and his first son, older than his immediate sibling by 13 years (A bigger test for a man who had a child at very old age, for the very first time) ended up in Makka alone! And nothing happens except that God Almighty knows it and ordains it.

What I simply point out to you is that Sarah has no final say and she was not the causaer of that event.


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Simple the same way Muhaaamad claims a lot of things. He put it in the Qu'ran.
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How do I win with you, if your stand is " Whatever Olabowale says, I will have a very opposing view about it?" But in the q.ur'a.n we see that he did not take any credit for himself. Is that also a gimmick, for a man who became hungry, homeless, and very poor during prothethood? And none of those calamities ever befell him before he declared his messengership. And through the hatred, the makkans never ceased to call him the trusted one! I am wondering if you have not dug your heels very deep in the ground.


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Tell me why it is the M.u.slims who observe the remembrance and the rites of the slaughter; remember it was a symbolic thing, a proof of obedience to the commandment of God
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And a proof of obedience to god should be discarded, when God said it is a remembrance? And you as a Catholic observe what now: Christmas, a date and event that can not actually be substantiated, except if one were to use the Nordic mindset of festivals in the cold? And you observe Easter, Ascension?

Because Muhaaamad said so. I thought it was that simple.
Look Muhaaamad certainly encountered Christians and Jews, they were all around him. Of course he couldn't understand their views and the words.
Why didn't he just become a Christian or Jew? It was foreign to him. The Arabian culture was very much a part of him. It was his character. He still wanted the wives and he still wanted to raid people. It was his culture. It's funny how he was the only one allowed to have that many wives. When the revelation came to him that muuuslims could marry more than one wife, they questioned him on why he had more, and lo and behold another revelation saying that "Any woman who wishes to dedicate her soul to the prophet, if the prophet wishes to marry her, this only for you and not for the believers."
or is it when he wanted to marry Zaid's wife that he received a revelation that said that God gave Zainab to him.
The Surahs covered his actions. He received the revelations conveniently. No wonder it was revealed over time.

There are people I have encountered that I thought would be wife materials or just to chalk it up to experience. But Is.l.a.m has strick guidelines and I am satisfied with it. Your observation is in the same vein of your observation of Trinity, whereby you called a man god. In essence, in both you did not look at all possibilities.

Since we are talking about the wives of the prophets (as), you should not forget that in Surah Azhab, God said to him that even after these marriages, there would not be any more marriages for you. It is as if God said that if all of the women were to die before him, there would not have been any more marriages for him. The wisdom of all of these marriages were to set up legislation of marriages between Mu.sl.lim. Mu.h.amm.ad called Khadijah his wife throughout his lifetime. Even in the presence of a younger and the only virgin that he married. Aisha (RA) knew it. And we see that it was a blessing from God to be counted as a member of his household. Certainly all his wives were members of his household and mothers to all believers!

We saw that good hadith came from them. They were the ones who were able to talk about things that were private about him and none said anything evil about him after he died. We saw that his marriages formented peace and alliances between tribes and the m.us.lims.  And Aisha said that if he were dishonest it was the verses concerning the marriage of Zainab that he would not have related. But we see that God Almighty said to him that if he hid anything and does not discharge his role properly as expected of him, his punishment will be severe and he will be cut off.

Well, just imagine the duty of Jesus as he went against the prevailing ways of the Jews! M.uh.amm.ad case was more difficult than that with the Arabs, who did not receive any revelation before. Zainab is a pretty name. You should bear it. Anyway, all mu.sli.m female names are pretty.

And I guess when I do talk to you, again, since your word and you are the same thing; being a manifestation of you, then I will expect you to be here in Manhattan. If you are not here when you are speaking to me, over the phone, then you have been taking me for a ride. You have been fooling with my mind. Even Jesoul who is in boston can't be talking to me in Boston and be here in Manhattan right then and there by her speech. Or Cayon, who is in New York City can't make a statement that she is in my section of the city while she is talking to me. Efeosa, I wanna see you do that "Trick!" And I am certain that you will fail in your process of manifestation of being in Florida and New York at the same time.

you people of falsehood are still ignorantly arguing here?

@~Lady~: I have to laugh about the converting business. For a person to learn about anything, that person must be willing to listen and analyse. I wonder if you are standing with your intetion to accept the truth, even though you said that you are eager to learn, how can you learn. The Q.u.r'an is full of all valid examples of how it is impossible that Jesus could ever be God. But it is not what you are intending to hear. I just made it clear to you that the prophethood of M.uha.mmad was actually a beginning of his end, the moment he declared his messengership. We see that he became poor and then poorer. Now tell me what did he gain that could be worldly? And the mu.sl.im never at one time said that he will even judge anybody in heaven!

But the Bible said that Jesus is god and even his 12 disciples will judge the 12 tribes. Now tell me, it seems as if there are many not to be judged people in the day of Judgement. What is the essence of not judging some and then judging most? Yet, even then, all the 12 apostles died and at the same time the wages of sin is death ( Baby, please don't give the metaphoric understanding, because I dislike interpretations considering that I am going to "original sin," to draw up my inference. lol).I hope after its all said and done, we will remain friendly.

@ Davidylan: Am getting too old while waiting for that phone call, last week end. Oh, its still not week end yet. Now thats a sign of falsehood. Bawo ni, man.

But I do want you as well as Olabowale and others to know that I am not in the converting business. It is not my place. I don't have to fight God's battle, he does it very well. I won't convert Olabowale, the Holy Spirit will.

The holy spirit, as per the Q.ur'a.n is Angel Gabreil. I do not see how an Angel of God will be leading a believer in One God that he the Angel serves to worship a 3 god in 1 god! Its not possible.

olabowale:

@ Davidylan: Am getting too old while waiting for that phone call, last week end. Oh, its still not week end yet. Now thats a sign of falsehood. Bawo ni, man.

Dont be annoyed, i've been away on business.
I'll call before saturday, there's plenty of family calls to take care of. . .

@~Lady~: I draw you to the progenies of Ismail to provr many points; One of them is that even though Ibrahim separated his younger wife and the first son, from the main house, he never at anytime stop being a family to them. How else would you have been able to know the "children and tribes" of Ismail, if he and his mother were abandoned, forever?

One more time, are you trying to convice me of what I believe or not? Show me where it is said in the Bible or that I said it that they were abandoned forever.

Further, if this above did happened, since we see the relics of continued relations between father and son, by the building of the Ka aba in Makka, it would not be impossible that when the dream of slaughter occurred, Ibrahim looked towards the already disposed off son to bear the brunt! I am not saying thats what happened from the Q.your'anic point of view, but using your Bible to suggest that if your Abraham cared less for a child, he would probably opt to slaughter him, if he had a choice. How would he be able to pull it off with a woman who had only a child at old age and was even bold that she forced God to agree with her to the point that Abraham was commanded to send his first son and his younger wife away? He would not have done it if God did not command him to send them away. And God would not have commanded him, except Sarah was unhappy and wished to get rid of mother and child team. (Sincerely, it behoves me to understand why a woman who encouraged her husband to perform adultery will now send the child and mother out of the house. Was this before isaac was born, or while he was still a child that shame was still foreign to him or when? Please thread carefully before you answer. I have a ton of reasons for putting all of this out for your observation).

This right here shows me that you have absolutely no idea what I've been saying. Can someone clarify for him please? Reindeer, Imhotep, please can you guys tell him that the Bible didn't say that Abraham abandoned Ishmael and forgot about him.
Olabowale, your answers are so generic, that no matter the question this the answer you will give.

Q.your'anic point of view, but using your Bible to suggest that if your Abraham cared less for a child, he would probably opt to slaughter him, if he had a choice

You're not using the Bible because the Bible doesn't say that Ishmael was forgotten. The Bible also mentions that Ishmael was taken back to his kinsmen for burial.

You will give me this answer because it is what you were taught. It is generic.

How would he be able to pull it off with a woman who had only a child at old age and was even bold that she forced God to agree with her to the point that Abraham was commanded to send his first son and his younger wife away?

Stop making up things. The Bible doesn't state that God agreed with Sarah. Like I said it was wrong for Sarah to do so, it shows signs of jealousy.

He would not have done it if God did not command him to send them away.

God gave people free will. Abraham was married to Sarah. Did God have to command him to have sexual intercourse with Sarah? How many times did God say "Abraham tonight you can have sex with Sarah" and how many times did he say "Abraham tonight you can't have sex with Sarah?" So did God command Muhaaamad to raid people?

And God would not have commanded him, except Sarah was unhappy and wished to get rid of mother and child team.

So you get the idea.

Sincerely, it behoves me to understand why a woman who encouraged her husband to perform adultery will now send the child and mother out of the house. Was this before isaac was born, or while he was still a child that shame was still foreign to him or when? Please thread carefully before you answer.

I don't seem to understand why she changed her mind, like I said, she's a woman, and women do get jealous.
She sent them away after Isaac was born, she didn't want her child playing with the slave woman's son (sounds like an African woman, lol). These are her words: Drive out that slave and her son! No son of that slave is going to share the inheritance with my son Isaac!

Now does that mean that she did the right thing, absolutely not. God assured Abraham that the Ishmael would be well taken care of. He promised to make of him a great nation. " As for the slave woman, I will make a great nation of him also, since he too is your offspring"
When they got sent away, the boy began to cry, then an angel appeared to Hagar and said "What is the matter, Hagar? Don't be afraid; God has heard the boy's cry in this plight of his. Arise, lift up the boy and hold him by the hand; for I will make of him a great nation." The Bible goes on to say: Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. Se went and filled the skin with water, and then let the boy drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the wilderness and became an expert bowman, with his home in the wilderness of Paran. His mother got a wife for him from the land of Egypt.

I believe this is the well that the muuuslims say still exist today. So you see, there's no conspiracy against Ishmael. He was a man of the wild because he lived in the wilderness and he was a bowman. Why would the Islrealites who want to claim that they're the only blessed one tell of God being with Ishmael?

Would I know more about the beginning of the Binis of Edo state, if I am not a Bini man, and never live there, than a Bini blooded person? Is this possible? Could anybody know the story/history of the arabs, before Ismail's arrival to Makka than a cultural arab?

Yes their brothers, the Isrealites. Here's another one of your contradictions. You're trying to prove to me that Abraham stayed in Ishmael's life, yet you're here trying to show that no one would know better than the Arabs. Well if Abraham stayed in Ishmeal's life, that means that Ishmael wasn't too far away and that Isaac too also stayed in Ishmael's life (a bit), that would mean that they knew about each other. That means that the Isrealites and the Arabs knew well of each other.

Like I said be careful not to contradict yourself.

It is a route that the "Arab" Yemeni's used to take. They used to encamp with there caavan i this place known as Makka, way long before Ibrahiim came along. Anyone who reads the history of Makka will know that the Arabic language, a sematic language was spoken by many people (Yemeni is a group), before Ismail andhis mother settled in Makka. What made Makka a place that could sustain any population is the water well known as Zam Zam.

I thought Ishmael was the father of the Arabs.

Was Oduduwa the father of all the Yorubas? Hardly, because Oduduwas was not the only man that was in the entourage of people that settled in the area and produced the people known as Yorubas. There are many men who have their spouses in this famous group. However, was Oduduwa the main male character or the leadership? Yes.

The Oduduwa was not the father of the Yorubas and neither was Ishmael the father of the Arabs. Pick one. It's either he is or he is not.

You will agree with me that when the place, the kaaba was built by Ibrahim and ismail, there were no idols housed in it. It is a later thing, just like many other things (Trinity).

I'm still thinking Adam built the Kaaba. You have to explain that. Don't skip any of my questions.

And I have never read any where that the jews and or the christians have not used the children of Israel as the chosen people of God, against every other people. So your trying to interprete the bible (I expect you to interprete, anyway), or indoctrinate me on what the bible did not say, especially when what I read is opposite what you are suggesting, will not wash with me.

Well then I would tell you to read the Bible. It is in there. It is through Isaac's bloodline that God was going to fulfill the covenant, that is where the chosen people thing came from. It doesn't mean that God will only find favour in them. In fact in the Covenant God said that they will be enslaved in a land not their own. That is why till today the whole fight is still going on. That is why the State of Isreal did not exist until 1940something. The Isrealites have always been under someone and they always were slaves to some other nation. But it still remained that it is through them that the promise would be fulfilled.

And it is still surprising that a man who was prophesised to be a wild ass of a man, turned out to be blameless according to your reading.

Not according to my reading. Many Christians would tell you the same. I apologise if all your life you were told that Ishmael was a bad man, sorry o. But Christians don't view him that way. Like I said earlier, he settled in the [b]wild[/b]erness. I think that's where the wild thing came from.
But anyway I explained it to you with another example of John the Baptist, who was also a wild ass of a man. You can accept it or not. Christians do.

But you simply forgot that you have used the behaviour of the present day Arabs (don't forget that you reminded me of my dislike of their behaviour), to justify the 'wild ass of a man' label on him

LOL, One that was a joke. Two I wanted you to learn to watch what you say, because I will bring it up to your attention. Look Christians don't view him as evil or crazy as in the definition of wild that you have in your mind. In the Bible he's not the "Go and kill them all" kind of wild man. Sorry but he's not.
Not that much attention is given to him, but that is how it is in the Qu'ran too. Ishmael is definitely bypassed.

I therefore wondered why you think that the Qu.r'a.n reminded Prophet Mu.ha.mmad not to frown? If he was was dishoest, such a simple reminder like that he would never would have let anyone know it. In your New Testament of the Bible, was there not a rebuking of the Children of Israel in a general sense of their evil doing? You do know that some evil are so bad that you can not hide it; such is the Golden calf. If your Bible did not divulge it, the Q.u.r'an does. Finally, on this board, the Christians have never let off reminding us that the Children of Israel are chosen people of God. And by the way, I do not have any hatred for jews persee. So don't read any interpretation to my words. I am not the Bible. Read it exactly as you see it and don't interprete.

So with this here, are you trying to convice me of what I'm saying?

InshaAllah, I am not condemned. I maybe bad, which is a fact, but condemned, thats in Hellfire. My Lord God, Al.la.h Taala is very merciful. I long for His forgiveness, as it is written in the Q.your'a.n.

Good, then stop condemning others, you are not God.

You forgot that there is forgiveness of since. But the greatest sin that must be forgiven before death is idolatry/ multiple head/ multiple persons god worship. This you can not accuse any true m.u.s.lim. If a person in is.l.am does all kinds of evils ad he truly believes in One god and steadfastly observe his prayers, these two and others will gradually get him out of evil deeds and he will seek repentance. And before he dies, his repentance, InshaAllah will be accepted.

Oh so there's excuse for the Muuslims, but not the Jews.
So now which gods are they worshipping?

But a person who does all kind of goods, but worships multiple god head, eg trinity, idolatry, and the disbelieving of the existence of God, such a person, if he does not change and becomes a M.u.s.lim before death will end up in Hellfire. is it clear now?

Other than the musslim part, yes.

The essence of the covenant is to worship One true God. In the way He lays down His worship and not the way we want it. To do good for His pleasure and to fear His Anger, while at the same time longing for his mercy. And a M.us.lim who is not a hypocrite who enters Hellfire, God willing will be removed from it after he has been puritied of his evil deeds which led him into it. Others, Jews, Christians, Idol woshippers and the none believers in God will remain there in the hellfire, forever. This is in the Qu.r'.an.

Lol. That is what the Qu'ran says. Now one more time, don't tell me what the Qu'ran says until you can prove it's authenticity. It is still not authentic.

I wonder if you know what the meaning of the word covenant is. Define covenant.

And the prophesy that the Jews and the Christians, though have the same bible do disagree with each other, is in the Q.u.r'an. And yes it is very clear that you will never agree with each other.

First, the Jews and the Christians DO NOT have the same Bible. Oya define Bible for me. Where did the word come from?
The Jews don't have a Bible.

Second I asked for you to prove something, so where is the proof?

I read the Q'your'an from 1975 all through January, 1998, and it was in English. And I asked myself if i understood anything from these 17 years exercise. The answer was No. I then picked up Q.your'an in Arabic. A language I had no clue about. And god opened my heard and I was able to understand it. And I was a m.us.lim all the while. Turn that around to you who comes from a non mu.sl.im family. Your heart was never in finding the truth, you would have known that Surah fatiha (the opening chapter, speaks about the complete glorification of God, the dependence of Believers in Him, and the wrath of God on the disbelieving Jews and other disbelievers and christians being described as the people who are astray) is a speech by God in a command to seek His favor. You would have seen that the few verses of the folloing chapter speak about believers, disbelievers and hypocrites. If these few verses are not enough to open your hear, then i will continue to pray for your heart to become soft anyhow.

But the Qu'ran in English should contain the essence of the message. It doesn't. Sorry, but it doesn't.
Don't tell me about the darn Surah. If I open a book and it tells me that I am going to die if I don't watch T.V. do you expect me to take it to be true? I hope not.
Prove it. The sayings are not enough for me to just go oh goodness, in Surah fatiha, God says I will die, so I should listen. How do I know that it is truly God.
If you didn't understand then you were not a muuuslim. You can't have a belief in something that you don't understand.

Massiah, is an Arabic spelling

No it's Masih

I am neither a Jew nor a christian, remember?

I don't speak hebrew but I know what the word means. Not a good enough excuse. At least you could on the internet and google it.

Wiped over or covered over from the influence of satan. That means satan will not even tempt him and he will not do any evil

Oh okay. So that's the meaning he gave him.

But of course, the Bible does not have any belief like that. Afterall, he was tempted three times in a row.

And what did he do? Did he fall into sin? No he didn't, why because he is sinless.

And according to your argument with me, on the lust after a woman thing, the lust (a form of temptation) is in itself a sin. Therefore, jesus according to the bible committed three sins of temptaions. Well thats even pale compared to the original sin transferred from father Adam. Lol, and thats according to the Bible! Afterall, all man carries that sin and the nature to sin. Now how do you get yourself from this bind that you find your argument?

Ok now you're making things up. Stop being desperate. So when someone is tempted, it means he sins eh. Oya that means that every time that you were tempted you sinned abi?
Oya tell me the sins Jesus committed in the Bible, make sure you include the woman he lusted for too and when.

From the onset I made it very clear to you that my purpose is to be a factor in opening I.s.lam to you. i do not see my effort just now as a new thing to you. Our friendship is based on helping you see the truth of I.s.l.am. Hopefully, i will find happiness in the mutual friendship between us. i will never claim that its a one directional flow here. But you have never became a m.us.lim before nor come from i.s lamic bloodline. I have a bloodline in Christianity and i know enough about it to actually know the truth, which it has none in it. The core of truth is absolute. And absolute truth is God is one and should be worshipped as such, in the way he prescribes.

You haven't done anything but try to shake my faith in Christianity. The information I know about Islaaam is from my research and readings. I ask you questions and you counter it by trying to show me that Christianity is lying. Instead of just saying what it is, you verge into showing Christianity as false to me. You don't come from a Christian bloodline. Your father was a muuuslim and the closest you came to Christianity was your mother who didn't believe that Christ is God. That is the core of Christianity. If she never believed that, she was never a Christian. You tell me you've read the Bible, but from what you've told me, it shows that you haven't. You've picked which Bible verse you want to use to prove your argument, but when I mention one to you, you haven't heard of it. That means you don't know the Bible.
If you did, you would know that Ishmael was never forgotten.

You justified that God is capable of doing anything as if in that state He does not restrict for himself somethings. Then all of a sudden, you said that god is incapable of lying, which would contradict His initially capability of doing all things. Lies are things that immorals. And the actual judge of morality is God. If it was the rules that lies were the true truth all along, you and me as people who follow the rules will have to accept it as the truth. Let me make it clear to you, if homosexual was not agreed to be sexually wrong (living a lie against the norm), then heterosexual people will be the ones who are wrong. That will be according to the fact that the homosexuals considered themselves to be morally correct.

So how is sending his Son to walk the earth Immoral?

There are things that god will not do; like eating (and Jesus ate a sign that he was not God, but an ordinary human being), sleep (Jesus slept and slumbered while at it on the vessel. It was in that slumber that they woke him up because his companions, people of little faith, thought their boat was going to perish). Look i can give you a trillion examplesof the things that jesus did that disqualifies him from ever being a god. All of those things God do not do. God does not pray for example, except that He accepts prayers which He commanded people to make.

What part of God brought himself to live with man, so that he could show man the way, do you not understand?
We know Jesus was a man, but we also know that while he was in the flesh, he was trully God. That is why he is sinless.

And to be the word of God does not mean that you become God, rather but His spoken command, a speech. And the speech and command of God is always true, must come to pass. And the spirit of God does not mean that one takes the spirit of God. And then becomes God. Did the bible not say that God breath His spirit into Adam? Was Adam God? The spirit of god is an instrument of God which He uses to effectuate whatever he wishes to effectuate using the spirit. it is a separate thing from God, and it is nothing but an instrument. Let me make it easier for you: A King is different from his crown, his staff, his throne. Each of those things are instrumentsthat can effectuate the will of the king on the subjects. If a messenger delivers a message with the staff in his hand to the highest chief, even though the king is not present, the chief knows that the king was actually the one talking to him! Everyone of us is a spirit of God, His word. If God did not allow my becoming a person, the sexual intercourse, if it would even happen, will just to be part of a usual mutual enjoyment between a husband and a wife. Afterall, not all sexual intercourse result in pregnancy. And if He did not allow my soul to fuse with my flesh, bone and blood, there would not have been anything about me. We see that people experience still birth.

Well I addressed the word issue with Frizzy, so let me address the Spirit issue.

So my spirit is now a separate entity from me and now my instrument. Is that what you're saying.
How can Olabowale be ~Lady~'s Spirit? Simple, ~Lady~'s Spirit is separate from ~Lady~.

Don't use seen things as an example for the unseen. Scepter, crown,and such are seen things. They are not of the spiritual. Give me a spiritual example and I will pay attention to it. When you speak do your words show up physically? What about your spirit, is it physical? Stop using physical man made things to explain the spiritual.

Honestly you're getting closer and closer to understanding the Trinity.

Am laughing at your inference that refuting that Jesus was God is a misunderstanding or a mistake. How do you justify the quality of human Jesus can be imposed on The One True Creator? What did Jesus create, separate and apart from what has been around before him? Jesus did not even know the end of time. Jesus did not know the season of the fruiting of Figs just because he was hungry from his fast! Jesus did not have any power to stop the satan from tempting him. Jesus did not even have the power to stop people from arresting him, even though as he prayed against it. Jesus did not even have the power that all his prayers be accepted. Jesus did not even have the power to stop his own execution, which from all observations, he wanted no part of it. He was not a willing participant. My darling, I am only using your Bible to point out what you are not seeing. I have to stop here before somebody is tagging with a nasty identity

When I say that you should know what is in the Bible, I mean it. If you read the Bible you will see that you sound just like the Roman soldiers and the Jews who said to Jesus while he was on the cross that if he was truly God why can't he come down from the cross "" You who are going to destroy the temple and rebuild it in three days, save Yourself! If You are the Son of God, come down from the cross." Matthew 27:40.
Asking me these questions leads me to know that you truly lack understanding of the Bible and that you haven't read it. When he prayed he asked for God's will. I told you that before, stop sticking to the generic questions that muuslims ask. Ask me questions that haven't already been answered. Ask me questions from this discussion. I ask you questions that I want to ask, not what many Christians have been asking.
He had to be executed, that is why he didn't stop it. Just because I have the power to do something doesn't mean that I will do it. We all have the power to stop injustice but we don't.

What did Jesus create, separate and apart from what has been around before him?

If Jesus is the word of God, answer me this, which one existed first, God or his word?

Jesus did not even know the end of time

He did, he told about it. Muhaaamad just coulddn't understand how it is a man who walked the earth could know the future. Sorry he lacked the understanding.

Jesus did not know the season of the fruiting of Figs just because he was hungry from his fast! Jesus did not have any power to stop the satan from tempting him.

Hebrews 2:14, 17-18

14 Now since the children share in blood and flesh, he likewise shared in them, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is , the devil.
17 Therefore, he had to become like his brothers in every way, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest before God to exiate the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself was tested through what he suffered, he is able to help those who are being tested.

Jesus did not even have the power to stop people from arresting him, even though as he prayed against it

He did no such thing. I thought I already explained the prayer issue to you. He asked for God's will to be done. So, God's will was done.

Jesus did not even have the power that all his prayers be accepted

They were, God's will was done.

Jesus did not even have the power to stop his own execution, which from all observations, he wanted no part of it

What observations? Your eye to find what pleases your belief?
He wanted every part of it. Especially when he prayed for God's will to be done. If he didn't, he would have fought. HE didn't. What man gets arrested and doesn't fight if he doesn't want a part of it?

My darling, I am only using your Bible to point out what you are not seeing.

Until you know what's in the Bible, stop claiming that you do.
I've already shown you that you have assumptions and not what's in the Bible.






























[quote][/quote]

Chapter 34(REPEAT) 

There stood before the door one who had his right hand shrunken in such fashion that he could not use it. Whereupon Jesus, having lift up his heart to God, prayed, and then said: "In order that you may know that my words are true, I say, "In the name of God, man, stretch out your infirm hand! " He stretched it out whole, as if it had never had anything wrong with it.

Then with fear of God they began to eat. And having eaten somewhat, Jesus said again: "Truly I say to you, that it were better to burn a city than to leave an evil custom. For on account of such is God wroth with the princes and kings of the earth, to whom God has given the sword to destroy iniquities."

Afterwards said Jesus: "When you are invited, remember not to set yourself in the highest place, in order that if a greater friend of the host come the host say not to you: "Arise and sit lower down!' which were a shame to you. But go and sit in the meanest place, in order that he who invited you may come and say: "Arise, friend, and come and sit here, above!" For then shall you have great honour: for every one that exalts himself shall be humbled, and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.

'Truly I say to you, that Satan became not reprobate for any other sin than for his pride. Even as says the prophet Isaiah;, reproaching him with these words: "How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, that were the beauty of the angels, and did shine like the dawn: truly to earth is fallen your pride!"

'Truly I say to you, that if a man knew his miseries, he would always weep here on earth and account himself most mean, beyond every other thing. For no other cause did the first man with his wife weep for a hundred years without ceasing, craving mercy of God. For they knew truly where they had fallen through their pride."

And having said this, Jesus gave thanks; and that day it was published through Jerusalem how great things Jesus had said, with the miracle he had wrought, insomuch that the people gave thanks to God blessing his holy name.

But the scribes and priests, having understood that he spoke against the traditions of the elders, were kindled with greater hatred. And like Pharaoh they hardened their heart: wherefore they sought occasion to slay him, but found it not.

Chapter 35  SATAN'S FALL THROUGH PRIDE

Jesus departed from Jerusalem, and went to the desert beyond Jordan: and his disciples that were seated round him said to Jesus: "O master, tell us how Satan fell through pride, for we have understood that he fell through disobedience, and because he always tempts man to do evil."

Jesus answered: "God having created a mass of earth, and having left it for twenty-five thousand years without doing aught else; Satan, who was as it were priest and head of the angels, by the great understanding that he possessed, knew that God of that mass of earth was to take one hundred and forty and four thousand signed with the mark of prophecy, and the Messenger of God, the soul of which messenger he had created sixty thousand years before aught else;. Therefore, being indignant, he instigated the angels, saying: "Look you, one day God shall will that this earth be revered by us. Wherefore consider that we are spirit, and therefore it is not fitting so to do." Many therefore forsook God. Whereupon said God, one day when all the angels were assembled: "Let each one that holds me for his lord straightway do reverence to this earth."

They that loved God bowed themselves, but Satan, with them that were of his mind, said: "O Lord, we are spirit, and therefore it is not just that we should do reverence to this clay;." Having said this, Satan became horrid and of fearsome look, and his followers became hideous; because for their rebellion God took away from them the beauty wherewith he had endued them in creating them. Whereat the holy angels, when, lifting their heads, they saw how terrible a monster Satan ;had become, and his followers, cast down their face to earth in fear. Then said Satan: "O Lord, you have unjustly made me hideous, but I am content thereat, because I desire to annul all that

you shall do. And the other devils said: "Calf him not Lord, O Lucifer;, for you are Lord."

Then said God to the followers of Satan: "Repent you, and recognize me as God, your creator." They answered: "We repent of having done you any reverence, for that

you are not just; but Satan is just. Then said God: "Depart from me, O you cursed, for I have no mercy on you." And in his departing Satan spat up that mass of earth,

and that spittle the angel Gabriel lifted up with some earth, so that therefore now man has the navel in his belly."

Chapter 36 CONCERNING PRAYER

The disciples stood in great amazement at the rebellion of the angels. Then Jesus said: "Truly I say to you, that he who makes not prayer is more wicked than Satan, and shall suffer greater torments. Because Satan had, before his fall, no example of fearing, nor did God so much as send him any prophet to invite him to repentance: but man now that all the prophets are come except the Messenger of God who shall come after me, because so God wills, and that I may

prepare his way and man, I say, albeit he have infinite examples of the justice of God, lives carelessly without any fear, as though there were no God. Even as of such spoke the prophet David;: "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God. Therefore are they corrupt and become abominable, without one of them doing good."

Make prayer unceasingly, O my disciples' 'in order that you may receive. For he who seeks finds, and he who knocks to him it is opened, and he who asks receives. And in your prayer do not look to much speaking, for God looks on the heart; as he said through Solomon;: "O my servant, give me your heart." Truly I say to you, as God lives, the hypocrites make much prayer in every part of the city in order to be seen and held for saints by the multitude: but their heart is full of wickedness, and therefore they do not mean that which they ask. It is needful that you mean your prayer if you will that God receive it. Now tell me: who would go to speak to the Roman governor

to Herod, except he first have made up his mind to whom he is going, and what he is going to do? Assuredly none. And if man does so in order to speak with man, what ought man to do in order to speak with God, and ask of him mercy for his sins, while thanking him for all that he has given him?

Truly I say to you, that very few make true prayer, and therefore Satan has power over them, because God wills not those who honour him with their lips: who in the Temple ask [with] their lips for mercy, and their heart cries out for justice. Even as he says to Isaiah the prophet, saying: "Take away this people that is irksome to me, because with their lips they honour me, but their heart is far from me." Truly I say to you, that he that goes to make prayer without consideration mocks God.

Now who would go to speak to Herod with his back towards him, and before him speak well of Pilate the governor, whom he hates to the death? Assuredly none. Yet no less does the man who goes to make prayer and prepares not himself. He turns his back to God and his face to Satan, and speaks well of him. For in his heart is the love of iniquity, whereof he has not repented. If one, having injured you, should with his lips say to you, "Forgive me,' and with his hands should strike you a blow, how would you forgive him? Even so shall God have mercy on those who with their lips say: "Lord, have mercy on us," and with their heart love iniquity and think on fresh sins."

First the Q.your'an did not continue to come after the death of Prophet M.u.hammad (AS). Anything you read in it was sometime before death came to him.

What's the relevance of this in the discussion?

And since you said that prophet M.u.hammad was not there when crucifixion happened, but you forgot that neither did any of the Prophets from the children of Israel was there when the creations of things were happening. Right? But you believed them because they were prophets, right?

Yes I believe them because they were prophets. They were also tried and proven true to be Prophets as God wanted it. In order and with consistency. Muhaaamad does not fit in there. He spoke against what all the prophets spoke. In order to get people to believe him, he claimed that the Isrealites corrupted God's words. If he doesn't lay this claim people will see that he contradicts everything in history.
So will I believe Muhaamad to be a true prophet of God, absolutely not. Why? Because he contradicts everything and his only claim to it, is to shake the faith of others. If he was authentic and had a solid base to his claim, then I would take him more seriously. But all he said was I got a revelation from God and all the things as you know it is not true, and didn't happen that way, but instead this is how it happened. And though all the prophets that I will acknowledge have prophecies, they were all wrong and this is the true prophecy. I hope you see what I am saying. The man had no proof of what he was saying. Yeah it is by faith that we believe, but God made sure he was consistent with his prophets, that is why we can believe them. Muhaaamad does not fit that consistency.
His character doesn't fit it either. His revelations were all too convenient. The muuuuslim man could marry only one wife, but he could do the opposite. It is wrong for a man to marry his relative, but he could do that. It was too convenient. The other prophets lived their life according to the laws that they proclaimed to the people from God. They didn't have exceptions to themselves. Muhaamad did.

You also believed the obliteration or abrogation of the Laws of the Old testament, by the laws of the New Testaments

You really need to know about the old covenant and the new covenant. The old covenant was imperfect and the people knew it, that is why they had anticipation for the new one, unfortunately not all of them recognised it and that's why they're still waiting for it. Does it wipe it all out, absolutely not. But it certainly makes it easier. Rather than being separated from God, they have access to him. Rather than sacrificing bulls and goats (or other animals) for forgiveness of their sins, the lamb was sacrificed on the cross once and for all for their forgiveness.

The Qur'a.n says that no man who is given the office of prophethood, given commandments and wisdom about worship of God, will turn around and tells anyone to worship him instead! The Q.u;r'an makes it very clear and Jesus could never ever would have said it.

This is completely thrown out of the window, because you haven't proven it to be authentic. I can assure you it will never be authentic. Muhaaamad lacked understanding, plain and simple.

You may not praise the Jews with your lips, but your Bible and all the christian leadership praise them.

Is this what you've led yourself to believe? Well The Bible also praised Ishmael, too, so why the fighting. Oh yes that's right, you all actually lack knowledge of the Bible and think that it reduces Ishmael and the Arabs. It doesn't.

But of course the children of ismail were not in question as to the Biblical God's command about ismail's wilding. And we did not see Ismail raised his hand to strike anyone, and no record that anyone ever struck him. If we look at this prophesy from the Bible, we will see that either the Bible writers lied or it is the fallacy of thr Biblical god to actually fulfill His promise. The answer is clear that the writers are at fault here. This is a reoccurring theme throughout the Bible.

Once again, are you trying to convince me of what I am saying or what?

Do you accept them as prophets and you are asking me about their prophesies? The central theme of all phophetic offices is that There is no god to be worshipped except God Almighty. To never associate anything with this glorious God. To know that He created all things, seen and unseen. To know that there is a day of Judgement; paradise as a goodly reward and hellfire a means of punishment. Let me just satisfy you with some of ibrahiim prophesies: All true prophets will come from his loin. That he prophesised that he was slaughtering his son. Do you want me to go through more of them? They are mostly Makkan oriented, as they deal with Hajj, etc. I think you should be satisfied with these, yet its just to whet the appetite for a person who yawn for truth.

What do I need to do to get you to answer my questions. Stop informing me of the hajj, just answer my question. What did they prophecy? They were prophets right? So tell me what they prophecied.

Yes they were all prophets. But they are all in different levels. One erraded the coming of the other? Thats part of the prophethood of Jesus. Muha.mm.ad came to seal off the office of prophethood. Definitely Noah was higher than David. Or Moses is higher than John the Baptist. Jesus was higher than Zachariah.

Hmm, so God is partial.

Even your Bible stated that John claimed that he was not even able tp carry the sandals of Jesus. Remember?

You're posing this question because you believe that Christ is just any other prophet. Sorry but he isn't. He is the Son of God, and yes it is in the Bible, and he said it himself.
So you are correct, however, not in the context in which you use it.

I was making you realise what the Bible said is different from the reality of the relationship. The Bible said Ismail was sent out, abandoned to rot, it seemed. Devoid of his father's love

Have you been reading my post or not? Where did you get the idea that the Bible said that Ishmael was devoid of his father's love. Where did you get the idea that the BIble says that he was abandoned. Seriously, I said that you have a generic answer, and this proves it. Because you have not seen my posts, either you skip them or you just don't understand that THE BIBLE DID NOT SAY THAT ISHMAEL WAS ABANDONED OR DEVOID OF HIS FATHER'S LOVE. Stop making assumptions. I put that in bold, so that you won't skip it this time, hopefully.

If you know all of this above, how then was it made to believe that Sarah truly has a strong say on the outcome of how Hajah and ismail ended up in Makka?

I don't think you understand what I said. Like I said you have generic answers. No matter what I say, you will give me the same answer. Even after everything has changed. For example, if I ask is Bush an idiot? you will answer me with The Bible said that Ishmael was abandoned and devoid of his father's love or Sarah had no control over Abraham, or Abraham as a man wouldn't leave his vibrant concubine for an old wife.
(By the way, don't ever compare yourself or any other regular man to Abraham, thinking that Abraham did anything any man would do. If that is the case then Sarah as his wife had a great influence on him. That throws out your theory of elect. See how you contradict yourself?

How do I win with you, if your stand is " Whatever Olabowale says, I will have a very opposing view about it?"

Sorry that is not my stand. If I am stressing you, pele o. If the Holy Spirit is convicting you and you feel bothered by what I am saying, then thank God.
There are things that you have said, that I have accepted. Not as truth but I accept it because I asked you for an explanation and you gave it, plain and simple.

But in the q.your'a.n we see that he did not take any credit for himself. Is that also a gimmick, for a man who became hungry, homeless, and very poor during prothethood? And none of those calamities ever befell him before he declared his messengership. And through the hatred, the makkans never ceased to call him the trusted one! I am wondering if you have not dug your heels very deep in the ground.

This is why you won't win with me. You're too gullible. Have you ever heard of wolf in sheep's clothing? Because the man was poor he couldn't have done any wrong. You don't understand the devil do you. He will be your best friend to get you on his side. He gains your trust and then your soul. Whatever way possible. How do I know a true Prophet of God? with his values and virtues. Money and all that mean nothing. Muhaamad's character as a man does not prove him to be a Prophet of God. Where are his virtues. Show me that.

And a proof of obedience to god should be discarded, when God said it is a remembrance? And you as a Catholic observe what now: Christmas, a date and event that can not actually be substantiated, except if one were to use the Nordic mindset of festivals in the cold? And you observe Easter, Ascension?

I will have to admit that I am lost here. You quoted yourself and not me. So could you fix that, so I'll know what issue you're addressing. Thanks.

Since we are talking about the wives of the prophets (as), you should not forget that in Surah Azhab, God said to him that even after these marriages, there would not be any more marriages for you. It is as if God said that if all of the women were to die before him, there would not have been any more marriages for him. The wisdom of all of these marriages were to set up legislation of marriages between Mu.sl.lim. Mu.h.amm.ad called Khadijah his wife throughout his lifetime. Even in the presence of a younger and the only virgin that he married. Aisha (RA) knew it. And we see that it was a blessing from God to be counted as a member of his household. Certainly all his wives were members of his household and mothers to all believers!

No we're talking about the revelations of the prophet. I gave an example that's all. Even at that, I thought whatever woman comes up to him and wishes to be his he could have her. Why then the change in revelations? If it were to set up legislation of marriages between Muuuslims, why then didn't Nuhaaamad live up to it. I thought he was the "Number One" Muuuslim?

And I guess when I do talk to you, again, since your word and you are the same thing; being a manifestation of you, then I will expect you to be here in Manhattan

So how come I can't see your word here in Tallahassee, if you and your word are separate?

You cannot see me because my word is a part of me. It is with me and in me. So if I am in Tallahassee, then that is where my word is. If I am in Atlanta, then that is where my word is. You can hear it, but you cannot see it, and I do not possess the power to make it physical, but God does. You just proved my point. Thanks.