Bidam: Open a thread lets thrash it, we are derailing this.Apologies to bro.. image123,

Done

https://www.nairaland.com/1388015/exposition-kingdom-principles

Ubenedictus: I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINTS, I JUST WANT YOU TO MAKE SURE YOU WANT TO HOLD THAT VIEW, THE PROTESTANT 'REFORMERS DECLEAED THA VIEW HERESY. MY ADVICE STILL STAND.TAKE A STEP BACK, AND STUDY JUSTIFICATION AGAIN.
PEACE

Bro - can you highlight what aspect of Image's post details his view on justification? I'd like examine it in some detail as well.

should be posting on the next chapter between today and tomorrow. Had issues with posting after previously typing and then losing the data mistakenly. Sorry.

Be encouraged @Image123, thanks for this good work.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The wages, the salary, the consequence and payment of sin and for sin is death. And sin is the transgression of the law. Like's its being said earlier, this death is not physical death, else we all have to receieve the wage of sin even after God has forgiven us and Christ has "borne it all". Christ died for us. He was separated from, and forsaken by the Father. He who confidently said "he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him", was shockingly and agonizingly left alone, taking the wages of sin for us, so that we may never die.
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
The gift God is offering us is eternal life through Jesus Christ, who is our Lord. These have always been the two things on offer from Adam. Moses said to choose life, as He had set life and death before the people of God. God told Adam in Eden, there are two trees. One the tree of life, the other the tree that Adam would die the day he ate of it. We know what Adam chose. What are you consciously or unconsciously choosing today. They say Adam consciously chose, but that Eve unconsciously chose. The point though is that they both chose, and got thrown out of the garden. We can bewail and complain about them all day, but the same thing is presented before us all. The wages of sin is separation from God.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

In the Roman church, there were brethren who knew the law. Paul is here address those that know the law. However, it is not something esoteric, he is just going to use the instance to make an illustration. He has in the previous chapter given relationships to the law as that of a servant and a master, and as that of a teacher and a child(in Galatians). Now he illustrates using a husband and wife relationship as we'll see.

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

The woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth. This applies till date. It is restated in another epistle BTW.
1Co 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
There are several laws that God approves of and is interested in our not breaking. People think of getting out of the law of Moses as being free from any law. No, its not. Christians are not lawless people.
Gala 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
There is the law of gravity to respect and obey if you want to live long. There is the law of sowing and reaping still in place. there is also this law of marriage, or as our verse calls it 'law of the husband'. A woman cannot marry another person as long as her husband is alive, and vice versa. Even if they were separated, they cannot remarry. Adultery is still a sin in God's update.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Man has to die, to be loosed from marriage to the law. The law is not dead. You have to die, not naturally/physically. The death being referred in these passages is not the physical. You have to die in Christ.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
You are become dead to the law by the body of Christ, so that ye should be married to another. This is an illustration, as in reality, we are not exactly married to Christ but are His bride, His chaste and glorious virgin that He is coming for. He is going to marry us at the marriage supper of the Lamb. But the illustration works just fine. We now have a new handler and husband. Not satan, not the law, but Jesus. Some people are controlled by the law, some others by satan exclusively, some others by themselves. But God wants us to be under the control of Christ, under grace, led by the Spirit. The law is like a very demanding husband, tyrannical. the law wants everything perfect or the wife cannot please him. For the law, the wife must wake up by 4. It has to be exact, four is four, not later, not before, you must never burn the food, the dishes must be done, the children must be prepared by 6, and that 6 has to be sharp. You cannot be out by 7 in the evening, not for any reason whatsoever ever, dinner must be prepared to a prescribed taste, the seasoning must never be too much or too little, all the laundry must be done on time etc etc. Being married to Jesus also comes with responsibilities by the way. Even more! But the difference is that there is help, there is grace. He helps you all the way. Christ also wants His wife to wake up early, perhaps even 3, He wants her to do the laundry, and the breakfast and dinner, never burn the food, or prepare something tasteless. But He is in a partnership, He helps her all the way.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The verse that follow actually prove that His standards, demands, and expectations, are higher than the law's. The law says don't kill, Christ says don't even be angry talk less of kill. The law says don't commit adultery, He says don't even lust else you've already committed adultery. He's more stringent on divorce, more stringent on cutting off your own body parts. In truth, the law was hard, Christ is impossible. But the glorious thing is that He helps, and anyone wife willing to accept His grace will find help in time of need.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

When we were in the flesh? What? The writer is about to embark on a sort of puzzling journey in this chapter. The christian has the flesh to contend with till death. He has to continually and consciously walk in the Spirit, instead of walking in the flesh. He has to daily take up his cross, crucify his flesh and die.
Luk 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
Gala 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
1Co 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
If you live in the flesh, you will die, be separated from God, but if you die with Christ, you will live. But now we are delivered from the law, thank God for this. We are delivered from its rule as our husband and master. It doesn't mean that we are now lawless. That you are not under someone doesn't mean that you do not respect or regard them again. Many of us still have great respect for our alma mater, our teachers, our masters, and former employers. God wants us to still fulfill the law. You cannot be truly under christ and not fulfil the law.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gala 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
However, we are delivered from the law in the sense that we do not need it to be justified by God. It's not in the agreement. In the old agreement/covenant, they were told to fulfil the law so that they can be righteous, please God and be blessed and saved. In the new testament/agreement, we are made righteous, blessed, saved and pleasing to God first, so that we can fulfil the law. So that anyone trying to obey the law in order to be saved is actually putting the cart before the horse. To, the undiscerning, its okay as the cart and the horse are both there. But its wrongly arranged and will not get you anywhere. It's like preparing a delicious meal, there is a process, a recipe. You don't just lump all the ingredients together and put it in the oven, or on fire. It's same ingredients but there are steps, processes and procedures. Fulfilling the law does not get you saved. By the way, you cannot even fulfil it on your own. God gave the law so that you cannot fulfill it. We have already discussed that previously, the law was given for transgression. Jesus and Paul testified that the people under the old covenant in their time did not fulfil the law. Some people think that if you give tithes, then you are fulfilling the law. Or that if you obey any instruction found in the Old testament Bible, then you are fulfilling the law. No, love is the fulfilling of the law. Here it is from Jesus and Paul for proof,
Joh 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
Gala 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
Keeping the law is more than boasting, that in my church we do not pay tithe, therefore we are not under the law. Or that we only read new testament. Now, we are delivered from the law. We do not need it to approve us before God. We are approved and justified by faith. We are not approved because we have never killed anybody, or because we did not abort, or we are virgin. You are a virgin, the other fellow, your neighbour is sleeping around. If you are having confidence in being accepted before God for your works ahead of the other fellow, you are under the law. You are seeking justification, righteousness by works. You are not delivered from the law. It could be any other instance, you may be generous, a giver, a philanthropist, a gentle person, easy going, church going. Are you delivered from the law, and under grace? Of course, the delivered should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Is the law sin? No. Sin is the transgression of the law. Is thou shall not murder sin? No. It is the transgression of that law, the disobedience to that law (thou shall not murder), that is sin. Is thou shall not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil sin? No. No law is sin, not the law of Moses even. The way folks tremble and run from Moses like he is the sin against the Holy Ghost or something. But the truth makes us free. When we know the truth, of what we are, and whom we are under(grace), we are made free. We are not under the servitude of any other but Jesus Christ. Does that mean that we trifle with God's words and laws? No! God forbid. Are God's Words now meaningless to us, or do we have a right to rebel? No. The following verses are still true in the christian's life, and for any lover of God.
Psa 119:1 Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:19 I am a stranger in the earth: hide not thy commandments from me.
Psa 119:29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
Psa 119:30 I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.
Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.
Psa 119:53 Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.
Psa 119:60 I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments.
Psa 119:80 Let my heart be sound in thy statutes; that I be not ashamed.
Psa 119:89 Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
Psa 119:92 Unless thy law had been my delights, I should then have perished in mine affliction.
Psa 119:97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psa 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way.
Psa 119:133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.
Psa 119:136 Rivers of waters run down mine eyes, because they keep not thy law.
Psa 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psa 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them forever.
Psa 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever.
How beautiful it says "thy law is the truth". Jesus said same, He said "Thy Word is truth". Is the Word still a lamp and a light to you, or it has become pick and choose for you, something that does not bother you or affect you or influence you? Is the law sin? God forbid.

Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Again, i need to remind us of a point in this verse. The law is not just referring to Moses' law or covenant here. It says without the law, sin was dead. But we know that he had said earlier that sin and death reigned, even before Moses, from Adam. There was so much sin that God sent a flood during the time of Noah, before Moses. Sin was not dead at all, the people were busy transgressing the law, from Sodom to Potiphar's wife.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
The law is still not dead today, neither is sin. they still reign in many lives that are not surrendered to Christ. So it's not just about attacking Moses' laws. Some people think that if we just do away with Moses'laws(whatever that even is), there will be no more sin. So they tell people not to read from one passage in the Bible, or even mention a word. they are under the law.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Not to over labour the passage, i will be brief in the subsequent verses. i was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived. Anyone can say this same statement, and it is true. If Adam says it, it is true. Same for you. Your ignorance/innocence was almost a blessing for you, but you would have never become ripe and useful. You would have never become holy. What is the point being a baby all through life? Where is the joy in that? Being alive without the law once. At some stage in life, accountability comes.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

God gave us fire and water, both useful, and both very destructive, depending on use. Almost everything given us can be misused, and abused when not put to right use. God gave us faith and fear. Imagine being not afraid of putting your hand in the mouth of a crocodile, or not afraid of walking briskly in the dark. You will suffer without such fear. Imagine pupils that do not fear their teachers, or young people who do not fear their parents and elders, a student who is not afraid of failing his tests or exams. Some fear gives you common sense, helps you to prepare for the rainy day, and avoid mistakes and stumbling. Now i'm not being brief The commandment God gave, and still gives, may affect us negatively if we do not use it properly. Same goes for anything given us. God can bless us with a job, or a talent, or even kids, and such can still lead to our ruin, sorrow and death if we are not careful.

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

Sin took advantage, when man was slack. Sorry, [size=13pt]sin takes advantage when man is slack[/size]. That's why we should not be slack, we should take hees, we should be careful, circumspect. We should stand fast, and DO ALL to stand. We should not be ignorant, but should know. most importantly, we should trust God, and allow Him to help us and lead us. Satan is quite smart, smarter than any man. You can't exactly outsmart him on your own, though he would want you to think that you can. Infact, he would rather not have you know that he is around or exists, not to talk of your fighting him or being in competition. The say when you know your problem, it is half-solved. Satan does not want you in the know. Thank for new testament sef, there is hardly anything about satan in the old testament bible. Don't let him take advantage.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Quite reminiscent of the verses from Psalm 119 quoted above. The law is holy, just, and good. End of discussion. What! New testament, tongue talking, holy ghost roaring, grace abounding Paul saying that the law is good? Many people refuse to believe their eyes on this verse, but it does not go away. The Word is settled forever, and the Word will nevver pass away. The law is good. man is not good, not even one. but here is the law, and it is good. not just good, but holyand just/righteous. All those verses in the Bible are righteous, and good and holy. That is one salient point to note if nothing else has been noted since the start of this thread.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The sinfulness of sin is expressed in the law. many people do not know the sinfulness of sin, little wonder they are not practically free from sin. They have only being told of the blessings of Jesus, and how we are blessed and free from the curse of the law(whatever that means). Sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. How sinful is sin to you? If you knew how sinful sin is, you would not play with sin.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Oh ho ho. Not only is the law good, and holy and just/righteous. The law is also spiritual. Are we still in Romans? New Testament romans? Yes. We KNOW that the law is spiritual. Do you? There are some people who think they have a calling and ministry to make void the law. to show us how pointless, and invalid, and useless, and cancelled it is. Paul said "Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? [size=13pt]God forbid[/size]: yea, we establish the law." The law is spiritual, we knowwww. If there is any problem at all, it is you, us, i. I am carnal, sold under sin. Who sold us? Adam. Adam made a decision to be of the flesh. Jesus is of the spirit, and wants us to be of the spirit. Adam chose the flesh. God marked his answer script, and sadly declared him flesh. He(God) had said "ye are gods", but man decided otherwise. In your report sheet, it is there, "for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return". And that which is born of the flesh is flesh. How IMPORTANT to be born again! And the Spirit was striving with man and striving like He still does today, till He came to a conclusion, Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.
He also is flesh, carnal, sold under sin. As God weighs you as an individual, does He see you as flesh, also? It's very easy to blame others, like Adam. i think they call it adamic nature. Many people blame the law, or Moses. Some blame Adam, some blame Nigeria, some blame the church, some blame pastors, some blame religion. They have not come to realization, like Paul, like David, like Peter, that I am carnal, that there is none good, no, not one. That I am sold under sin.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other

Legalism at its peak! What difference does it make if one ask questions since you have refused to defend your summations with answers. you have taken a profound position based on preconceived understanding.

shdemidemi: Legalism at its peak! What difference does it make if one ask questions since you have refused to defend your summations with answers. you have taken a profound position based on preconceived understanding.

This borders on false accusation. i did not refuse to defend what i have said. i have answered you extensively on this thread. i have only sought not to derail this thread with indirect questions and answers. We are discussing Romans primarily. When we take pages and tens of line to talk about peter and his view on burial and resurrection, and spirits of death in Egypt, and lamb blood, this is all a distraction to this thread. i did not refuse to discuss them still, but asked that you open another thread on such issues, while we make progress on Romans here. thanks.

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@Image, great read. I love the part where you explained being married under both dispensations and I can relate the examples given. The law's spirituality is beyond what is written, it is way deeper and that is why Christ fulfilled it. He fulfilled the deepness (or righteousness) of it and without Him, it is impossible to please God because mere flesh will never get it. Thanks.

Alwaystrue: @Image, great read. I love the part where you explained being married under both dispensations and I can relate the examples given. The law's spirituality is beyond what is written, it is way deeper and that is why Christ fulfilled it. He fulfilled the deepness (or righteousness) of it and without Him, it is impossible to please God because mere flesh will never get it. Thanks.

Thank you too, and God. Indeed, mere flesh will never get it, it is enmity against God.

I hope you will eventually open a thread for questions if you are sincerely ready to answer questions concerning this exegesis. You don't seem to have issues with the admirers but accommodating questions seem to be a digression from your salient points.

shdemidemi: I hope you will eventually open a thread for questions if you are sincerely ready to answer questions concerning this exegesis. You don't seem to have issues with the admirers but accommodating questions seem to be a digression from your salient points.

demi, i cannot say it in clearer language.If you have a question on Romans or on anything i have posted on this thread, feel free to ask on this thread. If you have questions on other books or subjects, open another thread and refer me to it. It's so simple, you do not have to be difficult.

shdemidemi: I hope you will eventually open a thread for questions if you are sincerely ready to answer questions concerning this exegesis. You don't seem to have issues with the admirers but accommodating questions seem to be a digression from your salient points.

Chei you sound like a teenager. "answer me, answer me". We all know your questions are never genuine. You think you are about to catch someone out.
Here is an adult approach:

1. "I disagree with this particular point..."
2. "Here is why I think so.."
3. "what are your thoughts, given what I have just said"?

That is how adults converse in the real world. Not a bunch of random questions, just so you can pull out verses out of context which seemingly support your erroneous ideas.

shalom

if you are not blinded by prejudice, you would take time to go back into what led to the request for another thread to ask questions.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Writer Paul is sharing his experience, which BTW is every human's experience. This experience is after his salvation. Paul has just declared "I am carnal". He didn't just say that he WAS carnal, but that He IS carnal. Our flesh is carnal. No matter how born again we are, our flesh is carnal. Our self nature is carnal. Even our heart is carnal.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

We've seen earlier that God has judged the flesh as good for nothing. That which is of the flesh is flesh. Give it the best training and good works, it is all filthy rags before God. This becomes more pronounced, more of a fight, when man becomes a new creature. When God's Spirit comes to dwell in you, when you become born again. The flesh begins to WAR against the spirit. The flesh lusts against the spirit, 1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
And the flesh is powerful. It is the old man, it's being with you since you were born, unlike the Holy Spirit who just came when you were born again. The flesh is going to be with you till you die BTW. That's why no man is above temptation, no matter how holy or spiritual.What we do is to overcome temptations, and we can ALWAYS overcome. What you do with the flesh is to crucify it. Gala 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Here we have it again, the law is good. It is perfect. But something can be good and perfect, but yet not put to right use. The right use is that we are not UNDER the law. We are not under its control. Nevertheless, we are not without control, we are UNDER grace. Grace and Truth came by Jesus. We cannot deny the Truth because we are under grace. We cannot trample on or transgress the law simply because we are under grace. The Bible says that sin is the transgression of the law. So there is nothing wrong with the law, infact Paul said that the law is perfect. But we do not use the law for our justification. i consent, i agree that the law is GOOD. Holy, just, good, perfect. We do not make void/useless the law as christians, we ESTABLISH it.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Act 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to [size=13pt]the perfect manner of the law[/size] of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul came to this realisation, the flesh is not good. We should not be fleshly or carnally minded. We should not walk in the flesh but in the spirit. We should not live like men, but like Christ. Let the mind be in you which was also in Christ. We are to be Christ minded, christlike. i KNOW that in my flesh dwells no good thing. have you known that? Many christians do not know that, that is why anything goes. This is the key to the passage. To realise that we WRESTLE, that there are two 'men' inside us, and hat one has to be perpetually under. Paul said, "I put my body UNDER". How would a soldier fare who does not realise that he is at the warfront? I know that in me dwelleth no good thing.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

This is the easiest thing, it is free fall. The flesh finds it very easy to dominate. It is easily attracted to sin. The "I", the self life, the self nature will always oppose Christ. The way out is to crucify it. Paul said, "It is NO LONGER I that liveth". When I lives, we get defeated, and this verse is our testimony.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Here again is the discovery of the freefall. The law as it were, that when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

The inward man, the old man. Two different men as it were. The new man or inward man delights in the law of God. One needs to check himself if he does not find delight in the law of God.

Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Another law! Again, note that when the Bible mentions 'law', it is not only talking about the law of Moses(whatever that is). Here we see two laws, the law of my mind, and the law of sin. So it behooves us to always know the context of the law being referred to. We cannot afford to just lump every law as the Mosaic law, or the old covenant. We are not under the law, we are not under the law. There are still laws that we must obey and regard like has been shown. e.g the law of marriage, the law of gravity. They do not just vanish away. In this text, we see that one has to still contend with the law of sin. there is that law that says you must sin, while God says those that are born of Him should sin no more. Some people fight off the law of moses, but are under the law of sin. That is a misplacement of priorities if you'll ask me.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Thank God, it is not all gloom and doom. Yes, man is wretched, I am wretched and we must all know that. The flesh is condemned, but we are DELIVERED through Christ. There is deliverance for everyone who believes, thank God.

LORD,i missed this thread.hmmmmmmm,

Image123:
Another law! Again, note that when the Bible mentions 'law', it is not only talking about the law of Moses(whatever that is). Here we see two laws, the law of my mind, and the law of sin. So it behooves us to always know the context of the law being referred to. We cannot afford to just lump every law as the Mosaic law, or the old covenant. We are not under the law, we are not under the law. There are still laws that we must obey and regard like has been shown. e.g the law of marriage, the law of gravity. They do not just vanish away. In this text, we see that one has to still contend with the law of sin. there is that law that says you must sin, while God says those that are born of Him should sin no more. Some people fight off the law of moses, but are under the law of sin. That is a misplacement of priorities if you'll ask me.

I tried to teach him this concept today. He is ever learning, yet, never coming to the truth

flourishG: LORD,i missed this thread.hmmmmmmm,

Bro, its all subtle rubbish tending towards legalism. I have left the brother to keep parading the falsehood.

shdemidemi:

Bro, its all subtle rubbish tending towards legalism. I have left the brother to keep parading the falsehood.

Then was fulfilled the saying "Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you".

shdemidemi:

Bro, its all subtle rubbish tending towards legalism. I have left the brother to keep parading the falsehood.

smh

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Then was fulfilled the saying "Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you".

I took time to read yr thread.unfortunately,it's a time wasted n can't recover.Damm! You neither cold nor hot, u want a middle ground,trynna blend law(whatever kind) with them grace.I will refute u when da time is fulfilled.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

There is therefore now no condemnation. NOW! No condemnation. There was condemnation before, but for those who fulfil the two conditions stated, there is NOW no condemnation. The two conditions are;
1. To be in Christ Jesus.
2. To walk after the Spirit, not after the flesh.
One can be IN Christ Jesus and be walking in the flesh. One can be in Christ Jesus and be walking in the Spirit. The Bible severally exhorts CHRISTIANS to walk in the Spirit. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ who walk after the Spirit. There is condemnation for those in Christ who walk after the flesh. Even Jesus condemned those who were walking in the flesh in His letter to the seven churches in Revelation.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law has made me free from the law. This is why there is NO CONDEMNATION. For, Because the law hath made me free from the law. i'm emphasizing these because this book (Romans) is not teaching us to disobey or disregard the Old Testament Scriptures. From chapter one till now, we have seen the writer use the Old Testament scriptures to prove his points, and affirm his teachings. He has even in recent chapters used adorable and lovable adjectives to describe the law. The law is good and holy and just. Do we make void(pointless, invalid, annulled, cancelled, null and void, negated, useless) the law? God forbid!
So, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of Moses? Not what is said. What is said is that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. There is a law of sin and death on every man. It is the law of ALL have sinned. Every one obeys this law, and the wages of sin is death. So, automatically, sin and death go hand in hand. All are under the law of sin and death. They must sin, they have sinned. There must be a weakness. If its not fornication, it is drunkeness, if not, stealing, or lying, or anger, etc. That's the law of sin and death. That an individual must obey one sin or the other. But thank God. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free. i'm free. This knowledge sets you free. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free. The truth is that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free. Many people do not know this truth. The devil will do anything to keep you from knowing this truth. That you can be free from sin, and sinning.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

What the law could not do! This 'the law' is not referring to the law of sin and death. It's referring to the law generally. That is what we often limit as the Mosaic laws. The law is good,and holy, and perfect. But it had/has its function. There is something that the law could not do. The law could not take away sin. Infact, it was not made or meant to take away sin. The law was given for transgression, to show us our sins. We have already considered this. The law is like a mirror. A mirror shows you yourself. It cannot clean you. That's the law. It was made to show you how dirty you are. You cannot take a mirror and begin to clean yourself, it would probably wound you even. The Bible compares hearing God's Word as/to looking at a glass(mirror).
The law could not make one righteous, and still cannot. It could not condemn and destroy sin. But God sent Jesus to condemn and destroy sin.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The law is good and righteous, and God wants the righteousness of the law to be fulfilled in us. The gospel is not only that Christ has fulfilled the righteousness of the law. That in itself is wonderful, good news.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
But God's goal is to make us little christs(Christians). As He is, so are we in THIS world. God sent His Son, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. Us, who walk after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

You are either after the flesh, or after the Spirit. You might be a christian and still be after the flesh. That is, you might claim to be born again, be a church worker or preacher, and still be walking in the flesh. Those in the flsh mind the things of the flesh. They are more consumed by fleshly things. One practical way to overcome the flesh is to not feed it. That is to put it under, like Paul says. When you are continually exposed to bad music, or bad pictures, or bad words, you are feeding the flesh. Do not be deceive, evil communications corrupt good manners. Bad bad things are on the media(radio, tv, internet etc). A christian needs to be careful, because these are the things that make the old man strong. Even when you think you have crucified it/him, he will come down from the cross, as it were. It's only a matter of time. But they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Being spiritually is not by confession or saying so. It is by doing so. They that are after the Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The problem with being after the flesh is that one becomes carnally minded. The carnal mind is NOT subject to the law of God. Are you carnal minded? Most people will say "Of course not". Okay, are you subject to the law of God? I am not under the law would not suffice. The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God. It cannot even be. It is the spiritual mind that can be. And the carnal mind is enmity against God. It is one thing, though foolish, not to believe in God or regard Him. But what would we say of a person who is in enmity against God? He is hostile to God, and to His Word, for whatever good reason(everyone has a good reason BTW).

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

They that are in the flesh cannot please God. This is final. This is how deadly carnality is. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, marvel not that I say unto you, You MUST be born again. He cannot see the Kingdom of God. He cannot please God. Take him anywhere, let him do anything. Give him all the education in the world, and make him one of the great and bright minds in the globe. Give him skill and fame, and vote for him even. They that are in the flesh cannot please God. Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. How often do we walk in the Spirit? You are either walking in the spirit or in the flesh.

A Christian cannot walk in the flesh bro..that is impossible.

You read at the end of the previous chapter where Paul talked as a believer, he said


24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is a new man that serves the law of God within us, the new man propels our flesh to walk according to the dictates of God.

Do your research properly, the original manuscript stops at 'there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus' full stop.

The book of revelation does not have anything to do with the Holy Spirit, You won't find Holy Spirit.


When you are in Christ Jesus it is the walk of God no more your walk/ work.

Your second verse, what law brought sin and death?

shdemidemi: A Christian cannot walk in the flesh bro..that is impossible.

You read at the end of the previous chapter where Paul talked as a believer, he said


24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is a new man that serves the law of God within us, the new man propels our flesh to walk according to the dictates of God.

Do your research properly, the original manuscript stops at 'there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus' full stop.

The book of revelation does not have anything to do with the Holy Spirit, You won't find Holy Spirit.


When you are in Christ Jesus it is the walk of God no more your walk/ work.

So are you using your flesh to serve the law of sin like that Coza pastor involve in a sex scandal?

Hmnn! Oya teach me a level of grace that i don't understand.

Bidam: So are you using your flesh to serve the law of sin like that Coza pastor involve in a sex scandal?

Hmnn! Oya teach me a level of grace that i don't understand.

shdemidemi:

The book of revelation does not have anything to do with the Holy Spirit, You won't find Holy Spirit.


When you are in Christ Jesus it is the walk of God no more your walk/ work.

Just what are you even trying to say here? Here is a book about what must take place. Are you saying because you do not read "holy spirit", we should add this to shdemidemi's list of books we should tear out of our bible?

JesusisLord85:

Just what are you even trying to say here? Here is a book about what must take place. Are you saying because you do not read "holy spirit", we should add this to shdemidemi's list of books we should tear out of our bible?

Bidam: So are you using your flesh to serve the law of sin like that Coza pastor involve in a sex scandal?

Hmnn! Oya teach me a level of grace that i don't understand.

shdemidemi: Your second verse, what law brought sin and death?

Sin and death is a law, as Paul wrote, and as it has already being explained.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There was sin and death before what you would love to call the law.

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Sin and death is a law, as Paul wrote, and as it has already being explained.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

There was sin and death before what you would love to call the law.

Paul didn't just bring the law of sin and death from the blues....He had talked about it in chapter 7, he also talked about what brought about the law/principle of sin and death.

Romans 7
.......For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

If we all look properly we will see Paul did not just come up with the issue of sin and death in chapter 8.


We can never take it that the law is bad because it came from God. But, as good as the law is it needs to be applied on man. The law was weak in that it was only there to nail an offender, it was there to condemn, it was there to reveal sin and kill.

Like you rightly said there was sin and death in the world but it was not accounted or imputed for there was no law to nail man.
Romans 5
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Romans 4
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

In other words sin and death reigned but it could not be imputed until law came.

One thing we must understand is that Adam was made in the image of God but you and I were made in the image of Adam. Adam was good before the fall but I have come to this world with the DNA of Adam. When Paul talks about sin most of the time, he is talking about a sin nature we inherited from Adam. The sin nature is the propelling force that controls our members/flesh. When we come into Christ there is a new force, a righteousness nature that propel us to do the will of God just the same way the sin nature use to control us.

Paul will then say with my mind (new man, spirit) I serve the law of God but with my members I remain a man so I serve the law of sin(Adamic nature)

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What the law could not do! This 'the law' is not referring to the law of sin and death. It's referring to the law generally. That is what we often limit as the Mosaic laws. The law is good,and holy, and perfect. But it had/has its function. There is something that the law could not do. The law could not take away sin. Infact, it was not made or meant to take away sin. The law was given for transgression, to show us our sins. We have already considered this. The law is like a mirror. A mirror shows you yourself. It cannot clean you. That's the law. It was made to show you how dirty you are. You cannot take a mirror and begin to clean yourself, it would probably wound you even. The Bible compares hearing God's Word as/to looking at a glass(mirror).
The law could not make one righteous, and still cannot. It could not condemn and destroy sin. But God sent Jesus to condemn and destroy sin.
Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

This particular verse was actually speaking about the law of Moses. The law of Moses is weak in that it cannot save anyone, what made the law weak? The flesh/sin nature. If there was no sin nature there won't be a law in the first place.

What did Christ do through his death?
Romans 6

3)do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

As a believer of Christ, we died with him, we were buried with him and we rose with him. Now, if we are in Christ we cannot be condemned by the law, Paul also made it clear in chapter 3 that this gospel he is teaching is apart from the law.