Bidam: So are you using your flesh to serve the law of sin like that Coza pastor involve in a sex scandal?

Hmnn! Oya teach me a level of grace that i don't understand.

You can say whatever you want to say about a pastor that fall, the secular law can hold him bound as well but if he is in Christ there is no condemnation for such man in Christ. It might just be the will of God that the said man should go into this ordeal. One thing is certain the man will not come out the same way he went in to the problem, he would come out broken, never to trust in his flesh like legalists do but to trust God in his weaknesses and the resultant repercussion of his afflictions.

Even an apostle of Christ, the 'second in command' to Jesus, this one who saw Jesus face to face (when i say he saw jesus face to face, he saw all the miracles and wonders Jesus performed), the one who was to take over the ministry after Jesus leaves was broken, so who are you or me?
Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; [b]and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” 3[/b]3 But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.” 34 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”

Christ knew Peter too well than Peter knew himself. Christ knew he would fail the test but after he has been humbled and broken, he would be strengthened 'spiritually', he should then extend the strength to the brethren.

The truth of the matter is we all need sifting to separate us from the invaluables we carry. The man in question might just be going through the same phase, just as Joseph was put in the prison to build up his character. How do I know? Before Joseph got in prison he would say what is your dream 'I will interpret it', after his prison experience he would tell pharaoh "“It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh an answer of peace.” The man went in as an interpreter of dreams but came out as a mouthpiece of the real interpreter of dreams.

LEGALISM IS TANTAMOUNT TO HYPOCRISY!

It is by Grace alone lest any man boast.

shdemidemi:

You can say whatever you want to say about a pastor that fall, the secular law can hold him bound as well but if he is in Christ there is no condemnation for such man in Christ. It might just be the will of God that the said man should go into this ordeal. One thing is certain the man will not come out the same way he went in to the problem, he would come out broken, never to trust in his flesh like legalists do but to trust God in his weaknesses and the resultant repercussion of his afflictions.

Even an apostle of Christ, the 'second in command' to Jesus, this one who saw Jesus face to face (when i say he saw jesus face to face, he saw all the miracles and wonders Jesus performed), the one who was to take over the ministry after Jesus leaves was broken, so who are you or me?
Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; [b]and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.” 3[/b]3 But he said to Him, “Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death.” 34 Then He said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me.”

Christ knew Peter too well than Peter knew himself. Christ knew he would fail the test but after he has been humbled and broken, he would be strengthened 'spiritually', he should then extend the strength to the brethren.

The truth of the matter is we all need sifting to separate us from the invaluables we carry. The man in question might just be going through the same phase, just as Joseph was put in the prison to build up his character. How do I know? Before Joseph got in prison he would say what is your dream 'I will interpret it', after his prison experience he would tell pharaoh "“It is not in me; God will give Pharaoh an answer of peace.” The man went in as an interpreter but came out as a mouthpiece of the real interpreter.

LEGALISM IS TANTAMOUNT TO HYPOCRISY!

It is by Grace alone lest any man boast.

my bro, all you wrote up there is based on the assumption that the said 'pastor' was even a Christian in the first place.A man who has had a career in using a 'higher level of grace'(where did he get that from?) to get into the pants of a number of 'sisters' in church without one iota of remorse can hardly be an example of God's grace in action.

A christian might fall but a true child of God wont remain there and glory in sin.

I might be wrong but i want to take liberty and assume that this same 'pastor' preaches on his inalienable right to collect tithes(as a high priest) and must have told his listeners they are going to hell for not remitting the 10% to him.How can he turn around now to talk of grace? A christian might fall into sin but if he really knows what the grace of God did for him, he would go out and weep badly like Peter did after the cock crowed.If he actually did it and he truly has the interest(both physical and spiritual) of his members at heart, he needs to come out clean about it.

If all what this lady said is true and the said MOG still stands up to preach in church today, then God help us indeed.

To be true with you, I don't bother with most topics on this forum. I have not checked what the pastor did as yet but I still stand on the fact that we cannot condemn any one in Christ lest we fall into the same things we condemn. God might have used the life of this man to teach some other ministers of God that we ignorantly laud but they harbour these thoughts in their hearts or the ones who secretly do these things but keep it under lock and key.

Gal 6

1Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.


Paul spoke about the immoral man that slept with his father's wife-
1 cor 5
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.[b]


All the devil can do is to destroy the flesh of this man, no matter what he has done. If he has the Spirit of God in him, that is if he is a believer his spirit will be saved.

shdemidemi: To be true with you, I don't bother with most topics on this forum. I have not checked what the pastor did as yet but I still stand on the fact that we cannot condemn any one in Christ lest we fall into the same things we condemn. God might have used the life of this man to teach some other ministers of God that we ignorantly laud but they have this thoughts in their heats or the ones who secretly do these things but keep it under lock and key.

Gal 6

1Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.


Paul spoke about the immoral man that slept with his father's wife-
1 cor 5
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


All the devil can do is to destroy the flesh of this man, no matter what he has done. [b]If he has the Spirit of God in him, that is if he is a believer his spirit will be saved.

@the bolded is the caveat. I hope he's a believer indeed and if he is, as a shepherd of flock who look up to him, he should be honest enough to come out clean to his members before some babe in Christ will assume it's ok to indulge in such.

It's well.

P/S: Image123, my apologies for derailing your thread pls. God bless you

shdemidemi:
We can never take it that the law is bad because it came from God. But, as good as the law is it needs to be applied on man. The law was weak in that it was only there to nail an offender, it was there to condemn, it was there to reveal sin and kill.

It is the lifestyle God wants us to live, so stop preaching rubbish. The law had only one purpose abi? You ignore its duality:

Joshua 1:8 "This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success."

Deuteronomy 28:1 "And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth"

David said to Solomon:
1 Kings 2:2-3 "I go the way of all the earth: be thou strong therefore, and shew thyself a man; 3 and keep the charge of the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself"

There is plenty more where that came from. But you say the law goes around seeking whom it may devour. Bunch of nonsense.

Tell me, was the law ever INTENDED to bring salvation? Find me the verse where that is even hinted.
Does it say "observe my statutes, so that thou and shall be able to enter into the Kindgom"? Of course not.

So if the law was never intended to bring salvation, how were the ancients being saved? By the same grace bestowed upon those who believe in Christ.

David said: "Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile"

Did Paul not mention this in Romans 4:8 " Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin."

So somehow, when Paul says it, he describes the law being done away with. But when David, the original author of those words, said it, he continued walking in the Lords commandments. Oh vain man.

Salvation is of the Jews.

Or know ye not what the most high God said through the prophet Zechariah?
Zechariah 8:20-23
" Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: 21 and the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also. 22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord. 23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."

Doesn't sound like he said 'christians'. Jews he said. Or are you about to tell me we should tear the book of Zechariah out of our bibles also? Do you not believe the book of the prophets?

Beware of this mans doctrine.

2 TImothy 4:3 "3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables"

Shalom

Candour:

@the bolded is the caveat. I hope he's a believer indeed and if he is, as a shepherd of flock who look up to him, he should be honest enough to come out clean to his members before some babe in Christ will assume it's ok to indulge in such.

It's well.

P/S: Image123, my apologies for derailing your thread pls. God bless you

You are very right about the caveat bro.

shdemidemi: A Christian cannot walk in the flesh bro..that is impossible.

You read at the end of the previous chapter where Paul talked as a believer, he said


24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is a new man that serves the law of God within us, the new man propels our flesh to walk according to the dictates of God.

Do your research properly, the original manuscript stops at 'there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus' full stop.

The book of revelation does not have anything to do with the Holy Spirit, You won't find Holy Spirit.


When you are in Christ Jesus it is the walk of God no more your walk/ work.

The Corinthian christians had some of them that were walking in the flesh, that were carnal.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Paul often exhorted christians not to walk in the flesh but in the Spirit. It would be a needless exhortation if carnality was impossible. Not every christian is like Paul. Paul was giving HIS experience. Your talk about Revelation having nothing to do with the Holy Spirit is simply ridiculous i would not even comment further.

shdemidemi:

Paul didn't just bring the law of sin and death from the blues....He had talked about it in chapter 7, he also talked about what brought about the law/principle of sin and death.

Romans 7
.......For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.

If we all look properly we will see Paul did not just come up with the issue of sin and death in chapter 8.

i never said that Paul brought up sin and death from the blues or that this is the first mention. If you read what i had posted earler in the thread, you would see that i had earlier talked about sin and about death. It is nowhere implied or stated that Paul just came up with the issue of sin and death in chapter 8

We can never take it that the law is bad because it came from God. But, as good as the law is it needs to be applied on man. The law was weak in that it was only there to nail an offender, it was there to condemn, it was there to reveal sin and kill.

All these has already been stated in this same thread.

Like you rightly said there was sin and death in the world but it was not accounted or imputed for there was no law to nail man.
Romans 5
13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Romans 4
15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

In other words sin and death reigned but it could not be imputed until law came.

So you know that i had already said this? So what is the issue?

One thing we must understand is that Adam was made in the image of God but you and I were made in the image of Adam. Adam was good before the fall but I have come to this world with the DNA of Adam. When Paul talks about sin most of the time, he is talking about a sin nature we inherited from Adam. The sin nature is the propelling force that controls our members/flesh. When we come into Christ there is a new force, a righteousness nature that propel us to do the will of God just the same way the sin nature use to control us.

Paul will then say with my mind (new man, spirit) I serve the law of God but with my members I remain a man so I serve the law of sin(Adamic nature)

Agreed and already stated.

shdemidemi:

This particular verse was actually speaking about the law of Moses. The law of Moses is weak in that it cannot save anyone, what made the law weak? The flesh/sin nature. If there was no sin nature there won't be a law in the first place.

What did Christ do through his death?
Romans 6

3)do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

As a believer of Christ, we died with him, we were buried with him and we rose with him. Now, if we are in Christ we cannot be condemned by the law, Paul also made it clear in chapter 3 that this gospel he is teaching is apart from the law.

It is talking about the law in general. No law can save us, that is the very point of the passage. Even if we obey thou sahll love thy neighbour, or thou shall pray without ceasing, or thou shall rejoice in the Lord always, or thou shall bless your enemies and pray for them that use you, or whatever law may be found in the NT, they cannot and will not save you. For all the law is summed up in two, thou shall love God, nd thou shall love thy neighbour. The good news is that our justification and righteousness is by faith, not by obeying any law, whether Mosaic, Pauline or Peteric.

Image123:

The Corinthian christians had some of them that were walking in the flesh, that were carnal.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Paul often exhorted christians not to walk in the flesh but in the Spirit. It would be a needless exhortation if carnality was impossible. Not every christian is like Paul. Paul was giving HIS experience. Your talk about Revelation having nothing to do with the Holy Spirit is simply ridiculous i would not even comment further.

What does it mean to be a carnal Christian?

A Christian that lacks the understanding of God's word. It is the very opposite of a mature spiritual Christian.

The Greek word used here was 'sarkikos'. Which signifies having the nature of the flesh. The Corinthian saints were making no progress but they were no anti-spiritual,

'Carnal' can also mean 'sarkinos' 'consisting of flesh'

On the other hand, being led by the Spirit is contrasted to being led by the flesh (the unregenerated state of man). You cannot be led by two masters, can you?

I would also like to learn from you if you are convinced that the 'Holy Spirit' would be there comforting, teaching and all during that great tribulation in the book of Revelation.

shdemidemi:
I would also like to learn from you if you are convinced that the 'Holy Spirit' would be there comforting, teaching and all during that great tribulation in the book of Revelation.

Lol you have no intention to learn anything. We all know you believe you will suddenly disappear in the sky before the tribulation. fables

[quote author=shdemidemi]

What does it mean to be a carnal Christian?

A Christian that lacks the understanding of God's word. It is the very opposite of a mature spiritual Christian.

But you lack understanding in the gifts of the Spirit No? To me carnality simply is the inability to express the fruits of the spirit in GALATIANS5:22,23.The Coza Pastor involve in sex scandals had an understanding in scriptures even concerning levels of grace according to him but lacks the fruits of the spirit.

The Greek word used here was 'sarkikos'. Which signifies having the nature of the flesh. The Corinthian saints were making no progress but they were no anti-spiritual,

'Carnal' can also mean 'sarkinos' 'consisting of flesh'

"And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ" (1 Cor. 3:1). Yet he also said, ". . . ye come behind in no gift.. ."(1 Cor.1:7). Do you have the gifts of the Spirit? Do you speak in tongues?

On the other hand, being led by the Spirit is contrasted to being led by the flesh (the unregenerated state of man). You cannot be led by two masters, can you?

Tell us how it is to be led by the Spirit?

I would also like to learn from you if you are convinced that the 'Holy Spirit' would be there comforting, teaching and all during that great tribulation in the book of Revelation.

John was in the Spirit to be able to write revelations(a yet to occur event)that's what image123 is talking about not your dumb analysis here.

Bidam: But you lack understanding in the gifts of the Spirit No? To me [/b]carnality simply is the inability to express the fruits of the spirit in GALATIANS5:22,23.The Coza Pastor involve in sex scandals had an understanding in scriptures even concerning levels of grace according to him but lacks the fruits of the spirit

Unfortunately, the definition has nothing to do with you or your own private interpretation; as there is a scriptural meaning for the word 'carnal'

Bidam:
"And I, brethren, [b]could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ" (1 Cor. 3:1). Yet he also said, ". . . ye come behind in no gift.. ."(1 Cor.1:7). Do you have the gifts of the Spirit? Do you speak in tongues?

Can't you figure out the definition of carnal in the 1 cor 3:1?

In 1cor 1:7 is simply saying all the gifts God was ready to give were just as available for these carnal Corinthians as for the more spiritual Philippians. Now that's why the little letter to Philippi doesn't have all the corrections and reproofs that Corinthians and Galatians have. They were the epitome, the joy of the Apostle Paul. And I think even the Thessalonians were that kind of people. But in Corinth, though beset with all these problems and hang-ups, God was still ready to pour out what was available to all spiritual types of people. Now in spite of all their carnality, and moral weaknesses Paul says they are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 cor 1:7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8[b]Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/b]

Bidam:
John was in the Spirit to be able to write revelations(a yet to occur event)that's what image123 is talking about not your dumb analysis here.]?

You are a typical proof of a carnal Christian bro. Of course John was speaking with the influence of the Holy Spirit but he was speaking of a future event where the Holy Spirit would not be present to function the same way He is functioning in this present time.

Image123:
The good news is that our justification and righteousness is by faith, not by obeying any law, whether Mosaic, Pauline or Peteric.

I agree with this, but would add the following: The instructions of Peter and Paul are not laws in the same sense as the instructions given to Moses - these latter instructions should be the natural by-product of our justification and righteousness by faith.

To put it differently, they are the evidence or outward confirmation of what has happened inside. I can liken it to a pregnant woman - the enlarged abdomen is the natural by product of what is going on inside. If the pregnancy is in its early stages (i.e. the baby Christian still walking in the flesh) then the pregnant woman looks no different from the non-pregnant one, but as the embryo grows into a foetus, the outward signs begin to show.

^^^^ Bro, the bone of contention is that one cannot be in the Spirit, that is in Christ and also be in the flesh. Being in the flesh is total enmity with God.

^^ It all depends on what 'being in the flesh' means.

One can be a Christian - someone whose spirit has been given life - but still have a very active sinful nature driving his/her actions. The 'flesh' or 'sinful nature' needs to be put to death in a process - it doesn't happen instantly.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

The above was written to Christians, who are 'in the Spirit', but still need to put things to death in their sinful/earthly nature.

shdemidemi:



1 cor 1:7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8[b]Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.[/b]

Image,sorry for this derailing.You should know shdemidemi by now na

@shdemidemi,i edited your off-point replies,except this.Let me expose your ignorance by providing relevant translations to this scriptures.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8

New Living Translation (NLT)

7 Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. 8 He will keep you strong to the end so that you will be free from all blame on the day when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.

Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8

Amplified Bible (AMP)

7 That you are not [consciously] falling behind or lacking in any special spiritual endowment or Christian grace [[a]the reception of which is due to the power of divine grace operating in your souls by the Holy Spirit], while you wait and watch [constantly living in hope] for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and [His] being made visible to [/i]all.

[i]Footnotes:

1 Corinthians 1:7 Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+1%3A7-8&version=AMP#en-AMP-28369

debosky:

I agree with this, but would add the following: The instructions of Peter and Paul are not laws in the same sense as the instructions given to Moses - these latter instructions should be the natural by-product of our justification and righteousness by faith.

And you think the instructions Paul was giving,he manufactured it from his head abi?

Look at this scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:34

Amplified Bible (AMP)

34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also say

Paul actually quoted the laws God gave Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:16.

Same with the 10 commandments he literally gave Moses,so what are you saying here?

Bidam: And you think the instructions Paul was giving,he manufactured it from his head abi?

Did I say that? I'm not fond of this strawman type of discussion, so try not to ascribe statements I've not made to me.

The instructions given by Paul were inspired by the Holy Spirit, who works in us to do what pleases God. That the 10 commandments were referenced in certain instances doesn't negate this.

Look at this scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:34

Amplified Bible (AMP)

34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also say

Paul actually quoted the laws God gave Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:16.

Same with the 10 commandments he literally gave Moses,so what are you saying here?

What I am saying is clear - what we do should be a natural progression of our faith, not simply because a given instruction was handed down to Moses.

debosky: ^^ It all depends on what 'being in the flesh' means.

One can be a Christian - someone whose spirit has been given life - but still have a very active sinful nature driving his/her actions. The 'flesh' or 'sinful nature' needs to be put to death in a process - it doesn't happen instantly.

Colossians 3:5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.

The above was written to Christians, who are 'in the Spirit', but still need to put things to death in their sinful/earthly nature.

Every Christian indeed live with two natures, the righteousness nature/ the new man and the Adamic nature/the old man. These two natures are in constant battle and conflict to control a believer, anyone outside Christ cannot have the righteous nature in the first place. Paul talks about the condition of a believer as well as the conflict and the conclusion of a Christian in chapter 7 of Romans- He says

Romans 7
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

He also mentioned this new nature in-
2 cor 4:16
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Ephesians 3:16
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

Paul would also say in Romans 7
23 But I see another law in my members(Adamic nature, sin nature), warring against the law of my mind(new man, righteous nature), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members(my hand, eyes, mouth and every part of my body).
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind(inner man) I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh(my senses) the law of sin.

By the renewing of our inner man through the word of God our flesh and its members are subdued, not necessarily by our conscious ability but by lack of appetite to please the demands of our body. Anyone with this new man has the Spirit of God hence such person can't be in the flesh.
Romans 8
9 But ye(a believer of the gospel of Christ) are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Bidam: And you think the instructions Paul was giving,he manufactured it from his head abi?

Look at this scripture.

1 Corinthians 14:34

Amplified Bible (AMP)

34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also say

Paul actually quoted the laws God gave Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:16.

Same with the 10 commandments he literally gave Moses,so what are you saying here?

The way you reason scripture is just so wrong! Paul said
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

The man is saying what the risen Christ revealed to him, he also mentioned that what he is saying is not from any man neither did he learn it.

Making a statement and saying the Mosaic law says the same thing does not mean he is quoting from the law. Apostle Paul avoids quoting from the law of Moses even though he was well trained in it. He would rather make his references and quotes from Genesis which predates the Moses.

shdemidemi:

The way you reason scripture is just so wrong! Paul said
3 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

The man is saying what the risen Christ revealed to him, he also mentioned that what he is saying is not from any man neither did he learn it.

Making a statement and saying the Mosaic law says the same thing does not mean he is quoting from the law.

Apostle Paul avoids quoting from the law of Moses even though he was well trained in it

. He would rather make his references and quotes from Genesis which predates the Moses.

Are you serious? I have shown you in times past where he quoted copiously from the books of Moses. If you are with a concordance bible go through Romans 10:8 which was referenced from Deuteronomy 30:14 and that's just one example out of many.

Bidam: Are you serious? I have shown you in times past where he quoted copiously from the books of Moses. If you are with a concordance bible go through Romans 10:8 which was referenced from Deuteronomy 30:14 and that's just one example out of many.

Who was the audience of that particular chapter? The Jews.

Was Paul quoting to them to lift up the law? No. He was trying to win them to a new law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

shdemidemi:

Who was the audience of that particular chapter? The Jews.

Was Paul quoting to them to lift up the law? No. He was trying to win them to a new law of the Spirit of life in Christ.

Your statement was Paul never made any references to mosaic laws. You re now shifting the goal post. I can show you others,if you ain't satisfied with this.

shdemidemi:

Making a statement and saying the Mosaic law says the same thing does not mean he is quoting from the law. Apostle Paul avoids quoting from the law of Moses even though he was well trained in it. He would rather make his references and quotes from Genesis which predates the Moses.

Bidam: Your statement was Paul never made any references to mosaic laws. You re now shifting the goal post. I can show you others,if you ain't satisfied with this.

You assume what you think I have said and you respond based on your presumptions. SMH for you

My brother go and look for where he would quote the law without saying the law also says. I believe you understand what I mean sha.

paste it quick

shdemidemi: [/b]




You assume what you think I have said and you respond based on your presumptions. SMH for you

My brother go and look for where he would quote the law without saying the law also says. I believe you understand what I mean sha.

paste it quick

The point you fail to see that i am trying to make is that in those days,there was no NT like we have today.Paul reads and explain scriptures from OT SCROLLS to convince both Jews and Gentiles that Jesus Christ is actually the Messiah the Law and prophets spoke of.He showed them the TORAH concerning Jesus in the synagogues.

To sit here and say he never quoted from the mosaic laws is not only wrong but actually preposterous.

Bidam: The point you fail to see that i am trying to make is that in those days,there was no NT like we have today.Paul reads and explain scriptures from OT SCROLLS to convince both Jews and Gentiles that Jesus Christ is actually the Messiah the Law and prophets spoke of.He showed them the TORAH concerning Jesus in the synagogues.

To sit here and say he never quoted from the mosaic laws is not only wrong but actually preposterous.

First thing be said, Paul was an apostle to the gentiles. He started these churches on the foundation of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He did not need to tell the gentiles about the torah nor the four gospel which had the account of Christ earthly ministry.


1 Corinthians 15

King James Version (KJV)


15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (This is the rock upon which they stood)

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

How do I know this?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh(near to God) by the blood of Christ.


Please help me with a verse that gives you the idea that Paul had OT scroll when teaching these group of gentiles.

shdemidemi:

First thing be said, Paul was an apostle to the gentiles. He started these churches on the foundation of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He did not need to tell the gentiles about the torah nor the four gospel which had the account of Christ earthly ministry.


1 Corinthians 15

King James Version (KJV)


15 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (This is the rock upon which they stood)

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

How do I know this?

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh(near to God) by the blood of Christ.

What is the difference between preaching and writing letters . Try to address my post first before quoting Paul's letters.

Bidam: What is the difference between preaching and writing letters . Try to address my post first before quoting Paul's letters.

Bro, I am done with you here.

I believe I have made my point.

shdemidemi:

Bro, I am done with you here.

I believe I have made my point.

Nope you didn't OOP.OUT OF POINTS

Bidam: Nope you didn't OOP.OUT OF POINTS

Shdemidemi is quite ridiculous.
Paul spoke to 3 groups simultaneously:
1. The Jews who believed/were coming to believe
2. 'Gentiles' who were in actual fact the descendants of the scattered 10 tribes from 2 Kings 17
3. Pagan Gentiles with no Hebrew roots whatsoever

How can you convince anyone that Christ is the Messiah WITHOUT OT scrolls? Or is Paul is wizard.

We recognise Paul's teachings of OT. Demi has to ignore that otherwise his whole 2 theory hogwash begins to unravel. If Paul just landed and started speaking things not written of in the OT, and especially in the prophets, that would have made him a heretic. Demi clearly won't have a problem accepting antichrist.

JesusisLord85:

Shdemidemi is quite ridiculous.
Paul spoke to 3 groups simultaneously:
1. The Jews who believed/were coming to believe
2. 'Gentiles' who were in actual fact the descendants of the scattered 10 tribes from 2 Kings 17
3. Pagan Gentiles with no Hebrew roots whatsoever

How can you convince anyone that Christ is the Messiah WITHOUT OT scrolls? Or is Paul is wizard.

We recognise Paul's teachings of OT. Demi has to ignore that otherwise his whole 2 theory hogwash begins to unravel. If Paul just landed and started speaking things not written of in the OT, and especially in the prophets, that would have made him a heretic. Demi clearly won't have a problem accepting antichrist.

Even the book of Genesis he claims Paul only quoted from was actually written by Moses. I just tire for the guy,i wonder which theology skool he went to sef.

Every diligent bible student knows that

In Galations 3:8, Paul quotes from Genesis 12:3.
In Galations 3:10, Paul quotes from Deuteronomy 27:26
In Galations 3:11, Paul quotes from Habakkuk 2:4
In Galations 3:12, Paul quotes from Leviticus 18:5
In Galations 3:13, Paul quotes from Deuteronomy 21:23.

If he had gone back to study more the Romans i showed him,he would have noticed Paul making alot of reference to OT scrolls.

ROMANS 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." [Isa. 28:16] 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved." [Joel 2:32] 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, who bring glad tidings of good things!" [Isa. 52:7] 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" [Isa. 53:1] 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, and their words to the ends of the world." [Psa. 19:4] 19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." [Deu. 32:21] 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." [Isa. 65:1] 21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and contrary people." [Isa. 65:2] (NKJV)