Pataki: I can't even beat my kids. Although I must say the environment in which you raise a kid also matters.

I was in Nigeria for a few months this year and my orientation I noticed had changed tremendously. I stayed with one of big aunty who had own kids, and in the Nigerian context was 'spoilt'. Esp. the last kid. He is very respectful, always prostrating to greet me and using 'sir' at every instance he addresses me which I sincerely was not comfortable with. I complained about this to the mom, but she told me to please let him continue. I had to bear with it during my stay.

The aspect where he was spoilt was that he does not know how to wash his plates, his uniform, etc. The housemaid does it or the washing machine sometimes. The mom decided that he needed to learn and he started his revolt in the house. One evening, he started crying simply because his mom asked him to wash a kitchen napkin. I asked him why he was crying.....and he said nothing. Soon after I was walked away, this boy hissed at me! The mom was shocked that I refused to discipline his son for hissing at me, citing various other instances where I also did not discipline her son for his spoilt behavior.

Needless to say, I did punish the boy after the mom talked me into it. I felt bad slightly afterwards for doing it, but environment do matter when it comes to defining what is a spoilt kid as such.

This story just supports the beating part and if you can beat her child, she probably thinks she deserves to beat yours

yellowpawpaw:

I saw ur first ?. Was very busy otherwise I would hv explained myself but I got cold feet when I saw this naw.u don't expect me to still expantiate after this?

The comment wasnt necessarily directed @ you.

biolabee: Then he gets used to being 'bribed' and 'sweet-talked' to wash his plates or clean his toilet

when there are no such inducements, he becomes the spitting roach-man who keeps his toilet unwashed for 3 months as we all saw in the last thread

the chronic lord of the flies

what is wrong with others doing the chores for him? He gets used to a clean environment and when there is no one to do it for him, he is uncomfortable and devises a means of getting it done..anyway anyhow.

coogar:

headmaster, pataki!
today's kids are complex and my biggest peeve is having to endure kids wailing in my ears. when the mum is not looking, i bribe the kid. people say it's spoiling but it's much better than the drama you would encounter while trying to straighten them up!

I once talked of financial management. He could learn to make money by getting things done.

learning at home-the best environment isnt a bad idea IMHO.

deols:

but did they?

Yep.They did.When I say I had a boyfriend as a teenager I did not mean I was sleeping with him or sleeping over in his house.I just wished he could come to my house without my mum and dad giving me a lecture for months.But it just was not going to happen.Cos to them.they felt a teenager did not need a boyfriend.And am not talking secondary school boyfriend, I was in university.Got into uni at 17.

damiso:
I knew jide was goin to pick on withdrawing vacay.Thats abuse innit (let me go souf london on you ).Just joking.
Ok let me use another example.My daughter is a very fussy eater.I remember how I used tear my hair out that she was not eating this bla bla.So the advise I got and used make sure she is hungry and give her what she likes.That was working for a while when she liked healthy wholesome foods.eg fruits, veg, fibre cereals etc.

As soon as she clocked 3, I noticed she acquired a taste for either waffles, pancakes or croissants for breakfast.No cereals, no juice just that 3.My husband (her chief manipulatee) was like if that is what she will eat lets just give it to her.I was like but its not healthy for her, he like you just said lets just give her what she wants.I was able to reach a small compromise by putting fruits on them, blending smoothies etc.She obliged for a while but then decided she did not want the fruits as well.So it was plain croissants or pain au chocolat or pancakes or waffles with syrup.I continued with this for like a month and then she started getting constipated.

Last week I just thought to myself who is the mother in this house.Why should she be eating what she likes because that is what she wants even though its not good for her? So on that fateful day I made sure it was a day my husband left home early.She came down for breakfast and I put cheerios and orange juice on the table.She was like mummy I want pancakes or waffles.I said we have no pancakes or waffles you are having cereal and juice.She was like but I dont like cereal and juice.Ok is there croissant.I said no you are having cereal and juice.She was like cereal is disgusting.I just ignored her and went upstairs to bathe her brother.

She wailed, cried, threw tantrums, I just ignored.By the time I was ready to take to her to nursery the cereal was untouched and congealed.She said mum am hungry.I said you have food in front of you.She faffed about and we were going to be late so I took a pack for smoothies she could have on the road.In other words, she left for nursery without breakfast.Shocking but I was not going to budge .I knew the smoothie was strawberry and bannana so could hold her tummy.

Next morn, it was mummy no croissant or waffles, I said no honey its wholemeal toast and egg.She normally does not egg but she had a bit of the egg, like half the toast and drank all her juice (this time I remembered to give her apple cos she prefers it).
By this morning, she has not had waffles, pancakes or croissants for a two straight weeks.Might just give her a treat tomorrow. .Might.
All I am trying to illustrate is not ALL things they want is necessarily good for them.

hmmmn

Sorry, I don't get you on the bolded part. The initial post stated quite clearly, a determination to 'spoil' the child, giving in to their every wish (be it 'needs' or 'wants'), so how does the environment factor in this? In bringing up the child?

The environment is their surroundings and what they learn from there. School, religious places/ organisations where bad habits are said to them as wrong and not to be engaged in, conducts are taught, etc. They are less likely to demand the things they would not get. Usually, their thoughts are products of what they are exposed to.A child attending a public primary school in Nigeria is most probably unaware of disneyland and would not demand a vacation there.

On the contrary, it's a well known fact that most teenagers rebel against forms of authority in order to 'assert' themselves, parents included. They would go against the norm, push the boundaries which is all normal. (It's no fun experiencing this as a parent but it does happen).

Basically, what I'm trying to say here is this: Firstly, you haven't really answered the questions I asked, regarding how you would handle those two scenarios I've drawn, if presented to you by your teenage kids. What would you do? Give in? Or put your foot firmly down and say 'no'?

the firm approach would have to be used. But Like I said about the environment, it is less likely that a child brought up like I was for example would demand any of these.

I have seen trends that make me believe so much in this. At the same time, I know that there is no perfect way to it. Not everyone turns out the same way.

Actually, it goes beyond materialism and extends into the emotional part. Saying yes to every material desire simply paves the way for them expecting a 'yes' to their emotional demands. Think about it. If I child is brought up believing the world owes them everything and not vice versa, whose to say what happens when they get much older and find that real life really doesn't work that way?

I mean the emotional is unconditional. I thought you meant it in terms of giving quality time and providing emotional support when they need it.

How would they cope then, as young adults?

How would they understand the concept of working hard for what they want? Without it being handed over to them on a plate?

Just asking...

That is why they need to see it as a privilege and must learn to work hard to keep it going.
Abrahamovich's son made his first business investment as a teenager. He knows of profit and loss, I guess because he has been taught of them and not necessarily because he once lost a dime.

coogar:

explain, how?
a child is reluctant to wash his plate and he's throwing tantrums. the mother wants me to deal with the situation and i go to the kitchen to talk to him.

i went: "junior, if you wash the plates without complaints, i would get you a big gift". how's that spoiling? every human needs some sorta motivation or bribery. as long as the job is done with minimum fuss, everyone wins!



motivation is not spoiling......
as you can see, you bribed him in the end and he promised to be good. kids are the most manipulative set of people in the world. throw them the offer and watch them change their mind almost immediately. he would have washed those plates that day if you had promised him 5 cones of ice cream!

Well I guess the one 'good thing' about your technique is that you would be raising a 'true Nigerian'. One who will not do their job unless they are "motivated" with bribes. One who would have perfected the art of using bribery to get what they want. A true leader of tomorrow indeed...Good job....

ileobatojo:

Well I guess the one 'good thing' about your technique is that you would be raising a 'true Nigerian'. One who will not do their job unless they are "motivated" with bribes. One who would have perfected the art of using bribery to get what they want. A true leader of tomorrow indeed...Good job....

motivation is not bribery....

when you give goodies to a worker to do what he's supposed to be doing, it's motivation. when you give goodies to a worker to do illegal stuff, then it's bribery.

i see nothing wrong in motivating my son to read harder or motivate him to complete house chores. kids are humans too. they want a little bit of extra to compensate the inconvenience.

if this method now translates to bribery(abusing a position of trust) to you then i cannot help you.

coogar:
when you give goodies to a worker to do what he's supposed to be doing, it's motivation.


they want a little bit of extra to compensate the inconvenience.

Eh, we're still saying the same thing. Who needs the inconvenience of doing your own job right? Why simply do your job when you can do it for "motivation"?

Kudos papa Coogar, father of the year!! I hail o!

ileobatojo:
Eh, we're still saying the same thing. Who needs the inconvenience of doing your own job right? Why simply do your job when you can do it for "motivation"?

loads of people need that motivation. humans are very different. a simple "well done, son" is enough for some kids whilst some need to have something to work towards. ask why banks give bonuses to employees after paying the normal salary. most schools here even give kids free iPods for punctuality as directed by the government.

Kudos papa Coogar, father of the year!! I hail o!

you better learn these skills from me and save yourself heart attack of having to chase kids to do chores they don't want to do just because you want them to.

this is how one woman tasks her kids....



each kid is set a task every week. each jar contains money that is pre-determined as their allowance for the week. she adjusts that as needed when they don't complete all the chores.



her children get the money when all their chores are completed by week's end. it's a great visual so they can see what they'll earn if they do all their chores. clear mason jars work great and she mounts them on a wall that the kids see every day as they enter the house.



call it what you wanna but this is brilliant parenting if i was a kid in this house, i would be doing all the tasks by myself without complaints. i doubt this mother would have to beat or scream the house down to get things done in the house!

It's brilliant parenting for greedy, money hungry kids like Coogar! . I can tell you right now, that technique will not work with me. If the worst thing that would happen if I don't do chores is that I won't get some extra cash for the week, you can be sure there will be a lot of undone chores quite frequently.

Welldone mummy

Whatever works for you as a parent

deols:

what is wrong with others doing the chores for him? He gets used to a clean environment and when there is no one to do it for him, he is uncomfortable and devises a means of getting it done..anyway anyhow.

coogar:

exaggeration borne out of myths!
just like we were told as kids that nigeria once played india and we lost 100-0 because our goalie kept seeing carnivorous cats instead of a round leather object.

Its not. I assure you.
Infact, I understated most of what I said there. Stop being a thomas.

slimyem: Its not. I assure you.
Infact, I understated most of what I said there. Stop being a thomas.

take me to that house, i want to see for myself!

ileobatojo: It's brilliant parenting for greedy, money hungry kids like Coogar! . I can tell you right now, that technique will not work with me. If the worst thing that would happen if I don't do chores is that I won't get some extra cash for the week, you can be sure there will be a lot of undone chores quite frequently.

stop fibbing....
that technique would work with every kid. kids love goodies. from toys to sumptuous meals in school to even comic books. extra money gotten from house chores would definitely appeal to kids. do you not work so hard to get paid at the end of the month? why not leave the work undone because you are not driven by money?

damiso:
Yep.They did.When I say I had a boyfriend as a teenager I did not mean I was sleeping with him or sleeping over in his house.I just wished he could come to my house without my mum and dad giving me a lecture for months.But it just was not going to happen.Cos to them.they felt a teenager did not need a boyfriend.And am not talking secondary school boyfriend, I was in university.Got into uni at 17.

But you didnt bring him home because you understood the terrain.

Actually,I agree that firmer decisions would have to be made by the parents.

ileobatojo:

Eh, we're still saying the same thing. Who needs the inconvenience of doing your own job right? Why simply do your job when you can do it for "motivation"?

Kudos papa Coogar, father of the year!! I hail o!

Why should anyone do anything in the first place if there is no reward for it? The reward could be just the satisfaction of having it done, comfort or cash.

coogar:

loads of people need that motivation. humans are very different. a simple "well done, son" is enough for some kids whilst some need to have something to work towards. ask why banks give bonuses to employees after paying the normal salary. most schools here even give kids free iPods for punctuality as directed by the government.



you better learn these skills from me and save yourself heart attack of having to chase kids to do chores they don't want to do just because you want them to.

this is how one woman tasks her kids....



each kid is set a task every week. each jar contains money that is pre-determined as their allowance for the week. she adjusts that as needed when they don't complete all the chores.



her children get the money when all their chores are completed by week's end. it's a great visual so they can see what they'll earn if they do all their chores. clear mason jars work great and she mounts them on a wall that the kids see every day as they enter the house.



call it what you wanna but this is brilliant parenting if i was a kid in this house, i would be doing all the tasks by myself without complaints. i doubt this mother would have to beat or scream the house down to get things done in the house!

I like her style, so much.

ileobatojo: It's brilliant parenting for greedy, money hungry kids like Coogar! . I can tell you right now, that technique will not work with me. If the worst thing that would happen if I don't do chores is that I won't get some extra cash for the week, you can be sure there will be a lot of undone chores quite frequently.

But some kids get used to other forms of punishment, like beating and end up never doing their chores even when they would be beat up for it.

A more subtle and better way is the reward system. Every child wants goodies and adventurous vacations or the latest games or new stuffs at the beginning of the session. They will do their chores to earn any of these and more.

I am only against the idea of saying No just so as to say No.

coogar:

take me to that house, i want to see for myself!

I will..gladly!
For your own health and safety, come along with a face mask and hand sanitizer
You have been warned.

coogar:
stop fibbing....
that technique would work with every kid. kids love goodies. from toys to sumptuous meals in school to even comic books. extra money gotten from house chores would definitely appeal to kids.

I can assure you this technique would not have worked for me. There may be the occasional time when there would be something specific I wanted to buy and maybe I would do chores then but for the most part, if the worst thing that would happen is that I wouldn't get that extra money, trust me, I would not do chores majority of the time. I would prefer to give up the money to 'buy' my free time.

do you not work so hard to get paid at the end of the month? why not leave the work undone because you are not driven by money?

What has working to earn your keep as an adult got to do with doing chores for change as a kid? You plan to start practicing this at an early age right? Now, if you're talking about at an age when one actually needs the money, that's a different thing. Apart from when going off to college, where lack of money would really be a problem, or if I have a specific thing to buy, like I said, for the most part, I would gladly 'spend' that money to 'buy' my freedom to laze around and read a book!



Note: I never said that was a bad method for everybody. There are many kids that this would 'work' for. However, I'm personally not a fan of consistently tying your house chores to getting an allowance. I have no problems with using the money system for when they go above and beyond, but not for things they are supposed to be doing. For instance, if they maintain straight A's they can get monetary rewards. In that instance, there are all the added benefits of your child learning how to work hard, study hard, put themselves in a good position for their future, and be among the best in their class. Now we're talking! But paying your child to take out the garbage? Not in my house. What principle is that child imbibing? If no one pays me, I won't clean my house?

deols:

I like her style, so much.



But some kids get used to other forms of punishment, like beating and end up never doing their chores even when they would be beat up for it.

A more subtle and better way is the reward system. Every child wants goodies and adventurous vacations or the latest games or new stuffs at the beginning of the session. They will do their chores to earn any of these and more.

Positive reinforcement is more effective than negative reinforcement in general. Positive reinforcement does not equate to paying them to take out the trash or giving them everything they want.

I am only against the idea of saying No just so as to say No.

So basically, every time you go grocery shopping, you will come back home with as many toys as catches your kids' fancy as you walk past the toy aisle. Good luck with that. Every time, you drive by a Macdonald's (or even when you don't drive by it) and your child requests it, you will make a stop there, every time? Every time your child requests an upgrade or a new thing because they saw their friends with it, you will get it for them every single time? Once again, good luck with all of that.

deols: I have plans of 'spoiling' my Children.
When people hear this, they give me curious glances as if there is something wrong with it.

I just want them to have everything they want.
No one would be allowed to beat, bully, shout at or hurt them. Do these make them bad people?

I think all of these define being a good mother.

Do you think differently? I want honest opinion please?

I will definitely advise you to have a re-think.of that method
You will end up with children that will insist on having their way at every level ,throw tantrums when they don't and real life is not that way.
You want Children that will adjust and fit into real life
Children need discipline
And sometimes part of that discipline is saying No even when you want to say yes
It teaches them patience,it teaches them contentment and appreciation
It enforces limits.
It teaches them gratitude for the things they get and the things done for them.
If we refuse to give them that discipline,the juvenile justice system will.

Being a good mother is being there at their school plays,at the parent meetings,dropping everything and listening and making an eye contact when they speak.
It is also making rules and enforcing those rules plus the consequences of breaking the rules.
The juvenile hall here in America is filled with children,some of them Nigerian kids without limits,whose parents had the best intentions
It is scary.
Nigerian kids shoplifting and doing break ins etc
I always tell people that I have just one chance to get it right at motherhood
You can change careers and lose weight or build muscles ,change spouse kpa kpa but you have just one opportunity to impact on your children and bring up a well rounded bunch.
I cannot afford to fumble that ball.


Rather than focusing on spoiling,ask yourself
How best can I raise these children such that when they leave my sight, or if i am nolonger here on earth,they can adapt to any environment and excel.
That is the best goal to have

Excellent post Osisi!

babyosisi:
And sometimes part of that discipline is saying No even when you want to say yes
It teaches them patience,it teaches them contentment and appreciation
It teaches them gratitude for the things they get and the things done for them.

Hope the OP can now finally understand why you should say no sometimes even when you could say yes.

ileobatojo:
I can assure you this technique would not have worked for me. There may be the occasional time when there would be something specific I wanted to buy and maybe I would do chores then but for the most part, if the worst thing that would happen is that I wouldn't get that extra money, trust me, I would not do chores majority of the time. I would prefer to give up the money to 'buy' my free time.

that is not realistic except you are an only child. there's no way you won't get involved when your other siblings are actively working to get bonuses. so what do you do when they are buying cotton candies with their reward, you would beg them? besides, when do kids ever stop wanting more?

What has working to earn your keep as an adult got to do with doing chores for change as a kid? You plan to start practicing this at an early age right? Now, if you're talking about at an age when one actually needs the money, that's a different thing. Apart from when going off to college, where lack of money would really be a problem, or if I have a specific thing to buy, like I said, for the most part, I would gladly 'spend' that money to 'buy' my freedom to laze around and read a book!

you must be different.....
there's no week in my childhood that i did not want a gadget or comic book. i was always after one item or the other. what would freedom buy me? laze around, read a book when there's money to be made?

Note: I never said that was a bad method for everybody. There are many kids that this would 'work' for. However, I'm personally not a fan of consistently tying your house chores to getting an allowance. I have no problems with using the money system for when they go above and beyond, but not for things they are supposed to be doing. For instance, if they maintain straight A's they can get monetary rewards. In that instance, there are all the added benefits of your child learning how to work hard, study hard, put themselves in a good position for their future, and be among the best in their class. Now we're talking! But paying your child to take out the garbage? Not in my house. What principle is that child imbibing? If no one pays me, I won't clean my house?

that's not the point.....
the reward system means you don't have to constantly remind them on what to do or you having to deal with their drama and wailings!

I know one spoilt man that must always take revenge for telling him no or denying him something, lol.

frankly im still impressed you are still trying to dissuade the OP from her sworn path of mothering

Spoilt.... ummm , do I really give a damn??




Not again??

For parents who don't have cash or money to buy stuff for their kids to bribe them, how do/would they get their kids to do stuff, since the escape route now is using money to bribe them?

I think there has to be one adult in the family that can tell the child no to certain things, could be the mum or dad. In my own case it was my mum that was the disciplinarian and my dad was just the fun loving chap that buys you chocolate all the time. Funny enough today the kids are more closer to my mum than dad, even though while growing up we couldn't stand her, lol.

op

i would still like you to explain this concept of your children being "bad" or "good", i'm trying to understand your post.

babyosisi:


I will definitely advise you to have a re-think.of that method
You will end up with children that will insist on having their way at every level ,throw tantrums when they don't and real life is not that way.
You want Children that will adjust and fit into real life
Children need discipline
And sometimes part of that discipline is saying No even when you want to say yes
It teaches them patience,it teaches them contentment and appreciation
It enforces limits.
It teaches them gratitude for the things they get and the things done for them.
If we refuse to give them that discipline,the juvenile justice system will.

Being a good mother is being there at their school plays,at the parent meetings,dropping everything and listening and making an eye contact when they speak.
It is also making rules and enforcing those rules plus the consequences of breaking the rules.
The juvenile hall here in America is filled with children,some of them Nigerian kids without limits,whose parents had the best intentions
It is scary.
Nigerian kids shoplifting and doing break ins etc
I always tell people that I have just one chance to get it right at motherhood
You can change careers and lose weight or build muscles ,change spouse kpa kpa but you have just one opportunity to impact on your children and bring up a well rounded bunch.
I cannot afford to fumble that ball.


Rather than focusing on spoiling,ask yourself
How best can I raise these children such that when they leave my sight, or if i am nolonger here on earth,they can adapt to any environment and excel.
That is the best goal to have

Thank you. I am hopeful at doing it right.

ileobatojo: Excellent post Osisi!



Hope the OP can now finally understand why you should say no sometimes even when you could say yes.

I am not hell bent as before. I realise there are instances that demand tough measures. You can't be fixated on giving them all. But when you can, without qualms, I still dont c y u shouldnt.

When people ask about the motivation for the future. I tell them it is not because of the future but because of now. I work hard because I dont want to have less than I have now and because I want to give my children more than I get now.

It is about letting people know what they deserve. If you bring them up thinking mediocre is fine, they'll probably just settle for less than they can have or achieve.

stillwater: I know one spoilt man that must always take revenge for telling him no or denying him something, lol.

Not that way. I think you have to teach them to take responsibility for their actions and to get whatever they want, beyond what you give them as parents is their own responsibility.