bigrovar:

i guess the reason is bcus most new users get soo pissed at the fact that they put up with Windoze shit for sooo long when they was a better and   cheaper alternative  ,  the backlash is what u see ,  deep hatred ,  for an OS that frustrated them extorted them ,  and generally short charged them for their money , 

so u ask yourself what turned this guy from this , 

to this ,   

abegi! do u think neoteny ever paid for any edition of windows he used?

y'all disciples of the penguin( better known as linux fanboys) need to sell linux to autodesk, adobe and MS office b4 yall start spouting.

you and i know that not all neo's pictures are truly about windows - why blame windows for AVGs bugs? - does linux not give error messages. those electronic billboards - the users should simply have disabled error messages/nag screens.

any way as i said b4 to each his own -

_{i hope i don't become this manic if i also join beowulf's fanboys}

abegi! do u think neoteny ever paid for any edition of windows he used?  Grin

yes he did ,  i guess u dont know that whether u like it or not windows amount to about 40% or the price of ur Laptop ,  has far as u are buying a laptop then u are paying for a MS license which is OEM License ,

y'all disciples of the penguin( better known as linux fanboys) need to sell linux to autodesk, adobe and MS office before yall start spouting.

autosek ,  what is it ,  i dont need it ,  i dont use it ,  and how many average computer user would ever need it ,  and if i do i can always install it through wine and it runs well

[img]http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28774&stc=1&d=1177591141[/img]



[img]http://www.pushpullbar.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28773&stc=1&d=1177590502[/img]

you and i know that not all neo's pictures are truly about windows - why blame windows for AVGs bugs? - does linux not give error messages. those electronic billboards - the users should simply have disabled error messages/nag screens.

windows is the only operating system in the world that needs an a 3rd party program just to run ,  look at ur self ,  u paid heavily for a software ,  but for it to work well  u need to buy another software , then another software to run the software ,  so then tell me who is the fan boi ,  i manage over 100 Linux desktops at work ,  all from one ubuntu cd ,  we didnt pay any license,  and we were able to customize them to our needs without problem,  everything thinmg runs flawlessly ,  infact the computers in the science labs have been on for 4 weeks now since we installed them ,  they have not been shut down ,  no AV ,  no error ,  no hanging ,  no blue screen of death ,  and we have the best tool for the job ,  the only computers that need drivers to use our scanners and printers are the vista computers we have on compus ,  ubuntu ! just plug it to a printers it configures it within a sec and u are ready to print ,  it doesnt nag u ,  doesnt blue screen of death on u ,  it just works

u talk about MS OFFICE ,  that bloated $600 suit that Open Office Makes nonsense of ,  we use Open office which is has free as air yet has more functionality than ur over bloated scam u call office ,  can office save ur docs has PDF , ?

adobe

first Gimp is a wonderful suit that gives adobe a run for its money ,  if u dont like it ,  have u heard that google worked to port adobe to linux ,  oh u havent heard ,  google it ,

any way as i said before to each his own -

exactly ,

i hope i don't become this manic if i also join beowulf's fanboys

like the saying goes ,  when people fear what they dont understand ,  some confront their fears by seeking for knowledge , while others resort to name calling

spoken like a true fanatic 

yawn90% of the stuff i use with windows is not necessary - i choose to use them. i could simply use defender, media player, windows inbuilt zip tool. it is my choice not to use them. during vista's development ms wanted to stop support for third party anti virus packages. symantec etal raised hell.

and yes  - there is a plugin for office 2007 that exports to pdf.

i guess using linux with autocad (stable) means i have to use a version almost a decade out of date

one can play your game just as well -

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/the-real-problem-with-linux

[b]with some of the things people came up with, and even more impressed that they did it without any real compensation. I've seen some absolutely brilliant ideas and brilliant implementations performed within this operating system.

With that being said,  Linux is a complete mess when it is looked at as a whole.

For one, due to the nature of linux, it lacks any real standardization. Things are implemented differently on different distributions. I have to look for some config files in different places on Suse vs. Fedora vs. Ubuntu. This is frustrating. Some of them start with different models and different rights levels,  For instance, in Fedora, my PATH was basically neutered and I had to readjust things so that I could run basic system commands (even as root). I also had to add the initial user I created to the sudo'ers file (why? I made the user on install). Ubuntu was the exact opposite, and I pretty much had free reign of EVERYTHING (usability vs security I guess).

While tools like apt and yum, and rpm and deb package management make it nice and easy to install things,  These packages can be months behind current releases,  and when you get current releases you have to play the dependency game. Not to mention that linux apps tend to break easily when you update libraries and such,  Windows seems to have this down. Every app comes as a packaged installer, and you never lack any files or libraries. No compiling necessary; no having to debug a failed make or configure,  Its just works. Like I said, package managers solve this problem, but no software makers distribute this way. Its often left up to someone else to package all together, and a lot of software is often out dated. (I've had a lot of experience with this and security tools).

For me, THE MOST ANNOYING aspect of linux is configuration. Windows has nice GUI configuration tools, with check boxes, help windows, popup explanations, etc etc. For everything with Linux I have to go into a text file and change some poorly described values. Now don't get me wrong, newer releases have included many more tools to configure the operating systems through a GUI (but there is still a lot missing). Still, most software isn't held up to this standard (save a few of the larger and more popular items). Instead, 90% of the time I have to edit a scantily documented config file (well, usually more like 4-5 config files for a single program). I always thought the registry was a mess in windows (and it is), but linux operates on what I'd call a decentralized registry. Its still a hodgepodge of values and settings, like the windows registry, but in Linux they are scattered over the entire drive.

Now the reason none of these problems are never going to be fixed is that there is no central force or authority controlling how things work. Everyone is left up to their own accord. Of course, this is linux,  Its a bit on the hippie side. Linux is a lot like a plane that keeps taxiing to take off. It has everything it needs, but it can't decide where it wants to go. All the passengers want to go in different directions and want to fly their own way. The idea of letting everyone do their own thing prevents the structure needed to have this thing take off.

Its almost like Linux is perpetually stuck in the final phases of design & programming. All the parts are there, they all work,  but its not made into a cohesive product yet.

All in all, I don't dislike Linux. I use it, and it gets the job done,  but I'd never use it as a primary desktop. Its not ready for the average users by a long shot.

Oh, and one more thing,  I hate vi. That has to be the stupidest design for a default text editor ever. Yes, I understand, its very effective if you get to know it,  However, a default text editor should not require a manual to learn and use,  Just type where the cursor is. For those that want the extra functionality, let them use their editor,  just don't make that complicated editor the default.

[/b]

it would seem that linux users spend all their time tweaking and no time actually getting anything done- 90% of the time - its all about the bling bling - and not about how much productivity you can get out of it - anyway i think the above says a lotperhaps linux can work in a school - but in a pure production environment geared toward profitunless you actually believe linux is the beginning of the end of capitalism.

i c an just see myself taking 2 hours of working tiem  everyday, tweaking some setting - wonder how the boss would take that?

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/linux-should-aim-better-life-not-better-imitation

Linux should aim at Better Life, not Better Imitation
Submitted by jon on Wed, 02/07/2007 - 07:25.
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Just occurs to me that there is now a 50/50 split of Linux's focus on the future.

Half the people are trying to improve things that imitate (often necessarily!) other peoples' work, half the people are working on innovative new things that do things differently (No I can't think of an example right now), and half the people are working on stuff they really don't need to bother with.

Yes that's 3 halves, thats the way my brain works.

Strikes me that Linux should push a better paradigm, more so than pushing existing ones.

For example(s):

* Its a full-blown unix, not some toy desktop modular TSR system like MSWindows, and not a vested-interest legacy project like Apple OSX, and far, far funkier than anything Sun etc, or the BSD crowd for that matter, have.
Linux should rejoice in this. It can already, as a direct result of being so 'hardcore', offer full security and a choice of desktops, and is a killer just right there with those two!!

* You can overload a machine with running apps, absolutely drive it into the ground with open windows. It'll get slow, it'll get lumpy , but most of the time (most of) it won't lock up or crash. It's better. Not 'as good', not 'different' - better.

* Diving straight into the commercial desktop - let's face it, really FACE it: most of it is concerned with moving around large amounts of utter CRAP more easily. Meetings you don't need to have, 'process' documents nobody will follow, presentations that just waste people's lives, and loads and loads of wankspeak that never need have been uttered to allow an enterprise to keep rolling. Let's leave that behind, let's find out what REALLY needs doing and do it, and do it in the simplest way we can so it can be expanded and is reliable!

There is the opportunity for apps that do things completely differently. For desktops with wild and strange abilities (NO, KEEP IT SIMPLE!! We DONT MEAN ADD MORE SOFTWARE BUSSES, WE MEAN _SIMPLIFY_ THE EXISTING ONES AND WORK OUT HOW TO MAKE THEM MORE EASILY USABLE BY PROGRAMMERS!!! By my CapsLock key, this needs to be driven home!!!), which could really improve the way people work and create.

Jon

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/linux-printing-still-joke-even-now



Linux printing is STILL a joke, even now


I'll add to this later, but basically setting up printing under Linux is a very hit-and-miss, trial-and-error, and ERROR PRONE excercise.
This is ridiculous, after the length of time Linux and Unix printing subsystems have been in existence.
There has been valiant work done, especially by the people behind www.linuxprinting.org - but they have been consistently left out in the cold. Linux printing is 'looked down on', and not seen as 'sexy', yet if it WORKED - PROPERLY!! - Linux with OpenOffice would already have owned the Desktop market.
As it is, I frequently have to submit documents across to an MSW user, or run vmware (after wasting days setting up print drivers), just so I can print something out in duplex on a really common HP printer. This has to change.

I spent days, no, WEEKS trying to get a standard Epson printer working on various versions of Linux (Fedora, Suse, Manrake, then Mandriva etc etc, and NEVER got it working properly. In the end I gave up. The drivers were impossible to find, or if you did find one it didn't install etc, just utterly useless.
One day, just to prove a point, I took the EXACT same printer round to a friends house who has Vista, and I literally couldnt have STOPPED it working if i tried:
'windows has detected a new printer'
'windows is now searching the INTERnet for drivers'
'windows has found the drivers and is installing them'
'installation complete'
All that in a matter of seconds. Not only that, but it worked of course.




so much for linux printing

in summary

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/appeal-masses

Linux forums espouse to a different philosophy from a community that prides itself on "freedom" and liberty. Absolutely no aspersion or criticism of anything Linux is tolerated on any of the many forums (all distros) that I've viewed. It's as if TASS has been reborn. Any constructive, healthy objection to the way Linux does something is removed from forum posts without prejudice.
Along with the censorship is the[b] childish attitudes[/b] of the mods and supposed super users that reply to posts. Most questions are either answered with RTFM, snide remarks, or non-applicable drivel that often turns the new user off to Linux altogether. Just answer the question. W[b]e don't need your opinions on Windows and how Linux is the second coming of sliced bread. As it presently stands, Windows is better at what most people need than Linux.[/b] I'm trying to change that. I hope you "Linux Gurus" will start doing the same.

back to the original topic -

this isn't va tweak for optimal performance - but its a useful tool - qttabar

it enables you to run explorer windows in a multitabbed interface. works in both vista and xp. the reason i'm highlighting it is that it enables you to restore those explorer buttons that would otherwise only show in classic folders settings. there's a lot of other stuff it does. its tiny. requires .net framework 2.0 or greater

http://qttabbar.wikidot.com/

oyb:

in summary

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/appeal-masses

Linux forums espouse to a different philosophy from a community that prides itself on "freedom" and liberty. Absolutely no aspersion or criticism of anything Linux is tolerated on any of the many forums (all distros) that I've viewed. It's as if TASS has been reborn. Any constructive, healthy objection to the way Linux does something is removed from forum posts without prejudice.
Along with the censorship is the[b] childish attitudes[/b] of the mods and supposed super users that reply to posts. Most questions are either answered with RTFM, snide remarks, or non-applicable drivel that often turns the new user off to Linux altogether. Just answer the question. W[b]e don't need your opinions on Windows and how Linux is the second coming of sliced bread. As it presently stands, Windows is better at what most people need than Linux.[/b] I'm trying to change that. I hope you "Linux Gurus" will start doing the same.

this is a big lie , very big lie , i have account in fedora,suse and am an active member of ubuntuforum , and never have i seen or heard where poeples comments are censored for airing their views no matter how pro windows , we have a lto of people in the ubuntu forums that is primarily windows and are not bothered or victimized in anyway , its soo sad that u have to resort to lies and unfounded facts just to prove your point , its really sad . and i am suppose to be the fanatic , on ubuntu forums they is even a section for windows , and u are more likely to get ur window problem solved they than on window forum   http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=170 which is not for bashing but for people with windows , so tell me where on MS side they is a forum for Linux or UBuntu ,

please respond to this , have u ever been censored on a Linux forum
have u ever been experienced what u post .

one thing

i cant speak for all  linux distros but i can speak for what i use which is Ubuntu ,

oyb:

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/linux-printing-still-joke-even-now



Linux printing is STILL a joke, even now


I'll add to this later, but basically setting up printing under Linux is a very hit-and-miss, trial-and-error, and ERROR PRONE excercise.
This is ridiculous, after the length of time Linux and Unix printing subsystems have been in existence.
There has been valiant work done, especially by the people behind www.linuxprinting.org - but they have been consistently left out in the cold. Linux printing is 'looked down on', and not seen as 'sexy', yet if it WORKED - PROPERLY!! - Linux with OpenOffice would already have owned the Desktop market.
As it is, I frequently have to submit documents across to an MSW user, or run vmware (after wasting days setting up print drivers), just so I can print something out in duplex on a really common HP printer. This has to change.

I spent days, no, WEEKS trying to get a standard Epson printer working on various versions of Linux (Fedora, Suse, Manrake, then Mandriva etc etc, and NEVER got it working properly. In the end I gave up. The drivers were impossible to find, or if you did find one it didn't install etc, just utterly useless.
One day, just to prove a point, I took the EXACT same printer round to a friends house who has Vista, and I literally couldnt have STOPPED it working if i tried:





so much for linux printing

am u are not an extremist right ? yet u qoute a site that that has extreme view about linux and that is very unrealistically antagonistic to Linux , we have many site like that that diss ms , but i dont subscribe to them or even condole them , when u base for views on FUD it devalues it and make u look like the fanatic


having said that , even MS Vista has vista capable product , and if u were to administer a network using vista , u would use product that have built support for vista right? like printers with vista drivers right?   so why would u not apply the same sense of judgment on another OS, i never said Linux was Bullet proof , the codes where developed by poeple who are largely volunteers and dont get paid for what they do , but still there are humans ,
were i work we installed linux supported printers and we dont have to spend weeks configuring them , since they support Linux , they just work , , the mistake u make is think that u deserve linux to do sumtin for u , but in fact u don't , u didn't pay for fedora did u , they is no license attached  u are free , must of u come to the community with a customer mentality , which is not the way linux works , in linux everyone has a role to play , its a we we community . not a me and the devs ,
if i have a problem with a program , i file in bugs , to the devs or i donate money to help its cus , i am involved , so am not just a mere ranting user ,

back to what i said about printing , u should do research on what works on linux and what doesnt , some wireless cards dont support linux they dont make drivers for linux , what should the community do , kidnap them ? no but we most suvive as a community and we use reverse engeering to make our own drivers for this product , which most times just works ,, and sometimes u need to do sumtin extra to make it to work , but to avoid this i just go for hp printers and scanners , and i go for intel wireless and nvidia graphic cards , with that things just work , and i have time for other aspect of life ,

'windows has detected a new printer'
'windows is now searching the INTERnet for drivers'
'windows has found the drivers and is installing them'
'installation complete'
All that in a matter of seconds. Not only that, but it worked of course.

this only happens if there is native support for vista , if not u are doomed

compare to Ubuntu with hp /or printers with native linux support ,
its
-printer detected
-printer ready

oyb:

http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/linux-should-aim-better-life-not-better-imitation

Linux should aim at Better Life, not Better Imitation
Submitted by jon on Wed, 02/07/2007 - 07:25.
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Just occurs to me that there is now a 50/50 split of Linux's focus on the future.

Half the people are trying to improve things that imitate (often necessarily!) other peoples' work, half the people are working on innovative new things that do things differently (No I can't think of an example right now), and half the people are working on stuff they really don't need to bother with.

Yes that's 3 halves, thats the way my brain works.

Strikes me that Linux should push a better paradigm, more so than pushing existing ones.

For example(s):

* Its a full-blown unix, not some toy desktop modular TSR system like MSWindows, and not a vested-interest legacy project like Apple OSX, and far, far funkier than anything Sun etc, or the BSD crowd for that matter, have.
Linux should rejoice in this. It can already, as a direct result of being so 'hardcore', offer full security and a choice of desktops, and is a killer just right there with those two!!

* You can overload a machine with running apps, absolutely drive it into the ground with open windows. It'll get slow, it'll get lumpy , but most of the time (most of) it won't lock up or crash. It's better. Not 'as good', not 'different' - better.

* Diving straight into the commercial desktop - let's face it, really FACE it: most of it is concerned with moving around large amounts of utter CRAP more easily. Meetings you don't need to have, 'process' documents nobody will follow, presentations that just waste people's lives, and loads and loads of wankspeak that never need have been uttered to allow an enterprise to keep rolling. Let's leave that behind, let's find out what REALLY needs doing and do it, and do it in the simplest way we can so it can be expanded and is reliable!

There is the opportunity for apps that do things completely differently. For desktops with wild and strange abilities (NO, KEEP IT SIMPLE!! We DONT MEAN ADD MORE SOFTWARE BUSSES, WE MEAN _SIMPLIFY_ THE EXISTING ONES AND WORK OUT HOW TO MAKE THEM MORE EASILY USABLE BY PROGRAMMERS!!! By my CapsLock key, this needs to be driven home!!!), which could really improve the way people work and create.

Jon

when u say Linux what exactly do u mean , do u mean slax,or fedora,or suse ,or gentoo , Linux a loose term , used to describe OSes that use the linux kernel , so different pple do their things differently , we have some distros for servers --redhat,centos, some are for enterprise suse , and some are for desktops , ubuntu , Mints , PCLinux OS ,
u choose what applies to u , i use ubuntu cust it fit my needs , and for me Ubuntu Not Linux is my OS . SO when u talk about anything talk about Ubuntu, LInux is just a kernel ,

as per the rest of ur qoute
i wont respond to it cus , u went to a hate site to copy FUD and i wont be a part of that , i dont feed trolls .

so much passion - ! my friend big brovar is resorting to name calling 

do you think neo got all those why windows sucks pictures from  'i love windows' sites?

i have never used linux - so i can't talk about its pros and cons.

i'm doing what 90% of vista bashers do - copy and paste other's third hand experiences

the most fundamental issue with vista has been stated - hardware requirements which are easily countered by adding ram.

at least you've admitted that linux is even more disjointed than vista. people complain about the bewildering array of versions - ultimate, home basic, home premium, vista business -
how do you linux usrers keep up with your constantly revised versions and distro additions?

you've also admitted that its not quite as bug free and seamless as its most vehement advocates would have us believe. yes its free.yes its secure. but like i said in a previous debate - it will be a long time before it will be the OS of choice for a production environemnt ruled by deadlines and profits

Look guys never compare linux with the windows platform, so windows came into the game first well thats long time ago. I am a new linux convert anyway, i have used win, been frustrated by it, but the moment i switch to the linux environment i felt it is now am finally in control of the OS, Linux still has a long way to grow though but its really making quick progress in that direction.THe down side of linux is the interface not really as kool as win, but yet i sould give it a 80% pass mark, now the reasong for linux troubles is the varying standards, if the linux community can come together and layout some unique and common standards to which all flavors should try and support , we would now have better support and improved applications and performance, the challenge withthe linux envr is getting what u need, it has a large and diverse universe that u could easily get lost in in. but one rule of thumb when u talk about linux and win, if u are an everyday desktop user , u wanna do things like MSWORD,corel draw,MP3 music, and use lots of flashy softwares for gadgets then u talk windows, but if u are the geeky type wanna knu everything, like to knu how things work,take control of the system rather thatn the other way round then brothers and sisters LINUX rocks. But to tell u the truth there is much headache in linux than in windows, so friend i wont lie to u keep both, when linux gets tooo tech for u use good old brother win, apart from that leave both platforms alone, they trade different routes and philosophy,

It is easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of computers by the sense of accomplishment you get from getting them to work at all

not knocking linux- but that may be the issue. all this stuff about ' having control of your system' . don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of control. but most users out there couldn't care less. they just want something up and running out of the box.

admin - wetin be this now - you've put the geek spat on the front page!

the other pic was small hope this illustrates the tabbar better

spoken like a true fanatic Grin



yawn90% of the stuff i use with windows is not necessary - i choose to use them. i could simply use defender, media player, windows inbuilt zip tool. it is my choice not to use them. during vista's development ms wanted to stop support for third party anti virus packages. symantec etal raised hell.

my point is that u still need some product to run windows , like an office suit and a AV , and a CD burner , yeah , other wise what do u have , a complete useless OS that is just waiting to be hacked ,


and yes - there is a plugin for office 2007 that exports to pdf.

an extra plug-in but it would be nice if it came by default .

i guess using linux with autocad (stable) means i have to use a version almost a decade out of date Undecided

wrong again , u can run the 2008 edition on wine , yeah its not out of the box , but then a autocad is not for noobs right

one can play your game just as well -



http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/



http://www.whylinuxsucks.org/the-real-problem-with-linux



with some of the things people came up with, and even more impressed that they did it without any real compensation. I've seen some absolutely brilliant ideas and brilliant implementations performed within this operating system.



With that being said, Linux is a complete mess when it is looked at as a whole.



For one, due to the nature of linux, it lacks any real standardization. Things are implemented differently on different distributions. I have to look for some config files in different places on Suse vs. Fedora vs. Ubuntu. This is frustrating. Some of them start with different models and different rights levels, For instance, in Fedora, my PATH was basically neutered and I had to readjust things so that I could run basic system commands (even as root). I also had to add the initial user I created to the sudo'ers file (why? I made the user on install). Ubuntu was the exact opposite, and I pretty much had free reign of EVERYTHING (usability vs security I guess).

like I said the word linux is very loose , this are different Oses that do things differently , u have a choice to use what works for u , so why would u expect fedora to be similar to ubuntu , is mac os the same with open solaris , u can say because xp as similar file structure as Vista then Gentoo and Pclinux should do the same , Vista is the updated version on Xp , fedora is not an update to Ubuntu , no , u are the one getting things mixed up , .
true Most Linux based os are very similar in the way they do things , but then they are different , and they sumtins have different approach to doing the same thing , what is wrong with that , I use ubuntu , If I want to use fedora I would learn how things are done in fedora , I wont just assume that it would be the same with ubuntu , since both are different OS,

While tools like apt and yum, and rpm and deb package management make it nice and easy to install things, These packages can be months behind current releases, and when you get current releases you have to play the dependency game. Not to mention that linux apps tend to break easily when you update libraries and such, Windows seems to have this down. Every app comes as a packaged installer, and you never lack any files or libraries. No compiling necessary; no having to debug a failed make or configure, Its just works. Like I said, package managers solve this problem, but no software makers distribute this way. Its often left up to someone else to package all together, and a lot of software is often out dated. (I've had a lot of experience with this and security tools).

u have little knowledge of what u say , ( but then why should u , this is just a copy and paste thing right) tell me one package that is dated on ubuntu , I dont know about fedora , but ubuntu or debian , tell me , if u know what u are saying be honet , dont use google , just say it , from ur experience , I speak from experience so I know what am saying ,
do the same , on ubuntu the focus is on stability , but there is a repository for bleeding edge . Which is meant for beta tester , community members who wants to test a product for bugs b4 , if any is found , it is then sent to the developer so that he can fix it , b4 the program is then released to the stable repository this is how must packaes management system works ,

For me, THE MOST ANNOYING aspect of linux is configuration. Windows has nice GUI configuration tools, with check boxes, help windows, popup explanations, etc etc. For everything with Linux I have to go into a text file and change some poorly described values. Now don't get me wrong, newer releases have included many more tools to configure the operating systems through a GUI (but there is still a lot missing). Still, most software isn't held up to this standard (save a few of the larger and more popular items). Instead, 90% of the time I have to edit a scantily documented config file (well, usually more like 4-5 config files for a single program). I always thought the registry was a mess in windows (and it is), but linux operates on what I'd call a decentralized registry. Its still a hodgepodge of values and settings, like the windows registry, but in Linux they are scattered over the entire drive.

tell me one tell that u cant do on gui with ubuntu , one config that doesnt have a gui , the problem u have is that u have an updated experience with linux and u see this aguement as a most win , so u resort to any means to blindly prove ur point , on windows u have GUI for everything right , but sumtins GUI fails and most times it does on windows , when that happens what do u do , is they a way to go to a console and fix it . Till now no one knows what cuses BSOD , gui is good for average users but not every computer user is an average user , if u are an admin u need to be able to fix things when gui fails , on Linux the configuration are safed as files and most are saved in /etc and are written in human language , I used window for many years yet I cant do registry edit , cus its too hard , but in less than 6 month of using linux I make modification to my config files , not through the GUI TOOLs that were available but thru the config files directly , how can u call it a mess , u need understanding my brother seek it ,

Now the reason none of these problems are never going to be fixed is that there is no central force or authority controlling how things work. Everyone is left up to their own accord. Of course, this is linux, Its a bit on the hippie side. Linux is a lot like a plane that keeps taxiing to take off. It has everything it needs, but it can't decide where it wants to go. All the passengers want to go in different directions and want to fly their own way. The idea of letting everyone do their own thing prevents the structure needed to have this thing take off.

so canonical is a hippie company , redhat is hippie company , novel is a hippie company , common stop making a mockery of ur self , stop it now , just stop it , how can u brand all of linux hippies , if u dont know how things work say it , it sucks mehn ,

Its almost like Linux is perpetually stuck in the final phases of design & programming. All the parts are there, they all work, but its not made into a cohesive product yet.

yet the eeepc that ships Zandros sold millions within a year , and yet there it hasnt reached a final phase , yet dell ships computers with ubuntu and hp ships suse , and Acer is to start shipping linux , even alienware is considering on shipping linux

All in all, I don't dislike Linux. I use it, and it gets the job done, but I'd never use it as a primary desktop. Its not ready for the average users by a long shot.

I am an average user , my girl friend is an average user , some guy I met in lag who begged me to install ubuntu for him is an average user , the 51 pple in my work place u use systems that runs primarily on ubuntu are average users , , the french parliamentarians are average users , over 8 million ubuntu users are avarage users ,

Oh, and one more thing, I hate vi. That has to be the stupidest design for a default text editor ever. Yes, I understand, its very effective if you get to know it, However, a default text editor should not require a manual to learn and use, Just type where the cursor is. For those that want the extra functionality, let them use their editor, just don't make that complicated editor the default.

i hate vi to but there is emacs,gedit,nano,mousepad,kate,etc they is choice,

it would seem that linux users spend all their time tweaking and no time actually getting anything done- 90% of the time - its all about the bling bling - and not about how much productivity you can get out of it - anyway i think the above says a lotperhaps linux can work in a school - but in a pure production environment geared toward profitunless you actually believe linux is the beginning of the end of capitalism.

u mean a productive environment like the new york stock exgchange , like google , like NASA , like the french police , like 90% of hollywood studios , just because I can tweek doesnt not mean I have to tweak or that tweaking reduces my performance , no its a choice , I can make my desktop look like am comfortable with , how does that reduces performance , compiz runs fine , its very productive cus it makes a lot of things easy , its not just easy candy and it is not a drain on resources like aero , it doest need 1gb ram to run and doesnt eat up 800mb or ur ram , even u had to upgrade ur ram to 4gb just to run vista , while ubuntu with compiz run smoothly on 512mb on an intel card , get ur fact straight mahn ,

you can see the row of buttons . if you wnat to you can also include the cut copy, move to copy to buttons. you can tweak the colours of the tabs.
BTW i'm using a third party vista theme called ultimate dark. you can get it at  th deviant art website. you need to patch/replace some vista files to enable it to work - theres a tool called take control which will solve all your problems with replacing program and system 32 files.

if u don't want to go that route - u can use tune up utilities - which is not free - . it has some cool appaerance features .

you can create bootscreens
replace icons
and load third party themes

you can download logonvista - stardocks successor to logonxp for cool logon screens

cursor fx - stardocks  successor to cursorxp for cool cursors - love that cursor i got there.

depending on you - you can enable or disable the document preview pane.

if you download preview config, you can add to the files that show in the preview pane - eg .reg, .inf files will show if u tweak settings via preview confg

winbubbles is a fantastic and tiny vista tweak tool.

there's also a tool called tweakUAC which u can use to configure the behavior of UAC - it can simply request a password(mac style), rather than all the big noise


finally, thers atool that works with xp and vista - file types manager, which gives back the control over file types that ms removed rrom vista

if u can't open legacy help files. .hlp - its because vista replaces the help32.exe with a stub. copy help32 from an xp installation, then use take control to repl;cae help32 in the system 32 folder.

big brovar - no one on nairaland will agree that you are an average user. please.

the business of using 'what works for you' will create nightmares for administrators. how does one (in an office environemnt) control the use or abuse of an OS where users can tweak and create all sorts of different settings?

the reason why the pdf plugin in office 2007 is not by default is 1- adobe raised hell when it was in development 2- its one of those freebies for ' users of genuine ms software' (i still got it anyways )

ur right about acad 2008 on wine - i did read that on a cad forum- but like u said - it aint close to being out of the box.

as to 512 mb of ram - those are the minimum requirements. even windows vista will run - sorry crawl on 512 mb of ram.

when y'all go on and on about linux and 512 mb of ram - is that the optimum value - or the minimum value?

oyb:

so much passion - ! my friend big brovar is resorting to name calling 

do you think neo got all those why windows sucks pictures from  'i love windows' sites?

i have never used linux - so i can't talk about its pros and cons.

i'm doing what 90% of vista bashers do - copy and paste other's third hand experiences

the most fundamental issue with vista has been stated - hardware requirements which are easily countered by adding ram.

at least you've admitted that linux is even more disjointed than vista. people complain about the bewildering array of versions - ultimate, home basic, home premium, vista business -
how do you linux usrers keep up with your constantly revised versions and distro additions?

you've also admitted that its not quite as bug free and seamless as its most vehement advocates would have us believe. yes its free.yes its secure. but like i said in a previous debate - it will be a long time before it will be the OS of choice for a production environemnt ruled by deadlines and profits

am not neo and i dont subscribe to that , niether do u , u have little to zero experience about linux , and that is why u just cant get it , i have used microsoft extensively , in school . i made a lot of money fixing windows , they is nothing u want to tell me about windows that is new to me , i have a vista thread here remember , so am in a position to know , i should know , bythe way read my post , Linux is not an operating system , it is a kernel , but Operating system that use the LInux Kernel are called linux distros , so ubuntu is an os , fedora is an os get it ? , in this light they is no problem of choice , i use ubuntu , and i dont care about million other os that other use , ubuntu works for me , and every 6 month i can get an update to a new version ,
and please this is about stating u point not a fanboyish win at all cost mentality , am not a fanboy cus am objective , and i dont rely on hate sites for my point , do the same

the reason why the pdf plugin in office 2007 is not by default is 1- adobe raised hell when it was in development 2- its one of those freebies for ' users of genuine ms software' (i still got it anyways Grin)

your right about acad 2008 on wine - i did read that on a cad forum- but like u said - it aint close to being out of the box.

as to 512 mb of ram - those are the minimum requirements. even windows vista will run - sorry crawl on 512 mb of ram.

when y'all go on and on about linux and 512 mb of ram - is that the optimum value - or the minimum value?

open office has been with the adobe plugin since god knows when , and about the minimum install for linux , that is another story cus explaining it to u would be vain u need to use linux to understand cus some of the inoovation i might try to explain might be too much for u to understand , so u do ur research on ubuntu minimal install .

big brovar - no one on nairaland will agree that you are an average user

well , but , but i am , am just an average user , really

Oyb refers about Vista appearance features: bootscreen, icons replacement and themes.

So what! Ubuntu has also appearance, startup, bootup and login windows to change desktop screensaver/background, bootscreen, startup programs/processes, windows border (icons, control, color, background), and themes, all you have to do is package the following programs you need to adjust at below:

Ubuntu 8.04 programs (gnome only with GUI) using either Add/Remove Applications (Application menu) or Synaptic (System > Administration menu):
[list]
[li]Start-Up Manager (System > Administration menu)[/li]
[li]BootUP Manager (System > Administration menu)[/li]
[li]Login Windows (already default at System > Administration menu)[/li]
[li]Appearance (already default at System > Preference menu)[/li]
[/list]

It allows you to customize things mentioned above as your personal preferences.

Here is the followed link below how to optimize Ubuntu 8.04 for Speed up Boot Process: (not for regular Ubuntu users, only administator with linux expert)

http://news.sofpedia.com/news/Optimize-Ubuntu-8-04-for-Speed-86405.shtml

GREAT TWEAKING for OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF YOUR Ubuntu 8.04 Linux OS.

Also GREAT UBUNTU REFERENCE cheat sheet that is found at http://fosswire.com/2008/04/22/ubuntu-cheat-sheet/

Hope it helps.

uspry1 +1

btw i didnt know u use ubuntu , damn! am impressed ,

uspry1:

Oyb refers about Vista appearance features: bootscreen, icons replacement and themes.

So what! Ubuntu has also appearance, startup, bootup and login windows to change desktop screensaver/background, bootscreen, startup programs/processes, windows border (icons, control, color, background), and themes, all you have to do is package the following programs you need to adjust at below:

Ubuntu 8.04 programs (gnome only with GUI) using either Add/Remove Applications (Application menu) or Synaptic (System > Administration menu):
[list]
[li]Start-Up Manager (System > Administration menu)[/li]
[li]BootUP Manager (System > Administration menu)[/li]
[li]Login Windows (already default at System > Administration menu)[/li]
[li]Appearance (already default at System > Preference menu)[/li]
[/list]

It allows you to customize things mentioned above as your personal preferences.

Here is the followed link below how to optimize Ubuntu 8.04 for Speed up Boot Process: (not for regular Ubuntu users, only administator with linux expert)

http://news.sofpedia.com/news/Optimize-Ubuntu-8-04-for-Speed-86405.shtml

GREAT TWEAKING for OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF YOUR Ubuntu 8.04 Linux OS.

Also GREAT UBUNTU REFERENCE cheat sheet that is found at http://fosswire.com/2008/04/22/ubuntu-cheat-sheet/

Hope it helps.

Uspry1 - are u saying that ubuntu - that perfect , superfast, flawless, crashproof, bug proof  system requires tweaks for optimal performance?     

could those programs u referred to also be erthird party programs 


by the way madam moderator - the name of the thread is 'Windows Vista Tweaks for Optimal System Performance '

bigrovar:



am not neo and i don't subscribe to that , niether do u , u have little to zero experience about linux , and that is why u just can't get it , i have used microsoft extensively , in school . i made a lot of money fixing windows , they is nothing u want to tell me about windows that is new to me , i have a vista thread here remember , so am in a position to know , i should know , bythe way read my post , Linux is not an operating system , it is a kernel , but Operating system that use the LInux Kernel are called linux distros , so ubuntu is an os , fedora is an os get it ? , in this light they is no problem of choice , i use ubuntu , and i don't care about million other os that other use , ubuntu works for me , and every 6 month i can get an update to a new version ,
and please this is about stating u point not a fanboyish win at all cost mentality , am not a fanboy cus am objective (so you say) , and i don't rely on hate sites for my point , do the same


open office has been with the adobe plugin since god knows when , and about the minimum install for linux , that is another story cus explaining it to u would be vain u need to use linux to understand cus some of the inoovation i might try to explain might be too much for u to understand , so u do your research on ubuntu minimal install .

kai! na wah oh! does becoming an ubuntu guru inspire this arrogance !!

don't worry. . . eventually i too will install ubuntu.

bigrovar:

uspry1 +1

between i didnt know u use ubuntu , damn! am impressed ,

@bigrovar

Yes I use Ubuntu 8.04 just installed on my son's 10 years old desktop pc that my mother gave away. I upgraded myself replacing new motherboard/cpu/power supply and new monitor with old Windows 98 then decided to do my experimental installing new Ubuntu OS wiping off entire Windows 98 during recent weekend for the first time.

Changing login windows replacing Ubuntu icon into Transformer login that is my son's favorite desktop screen including login screen, changing appearance too.

I keep eyes on your experience using Ubuntu as well as your blog that I am impressed with here on NL everyday. It helps me to decide to install my main host pc that has Windows XP professional long before year 2014 to discontinue Windows XP support.

No problem easy like breezy to run Ubuntu and tweaking everything when it comes to fail FireFox 3 loading even though networking connection still is on fine. That's how I solved it quickly less than 2 hours---no problem!!!

I was veteran Xandros Linux OS 6 years ago, too busy to change everything right after the technician messed up my Xandros-based pc lost everything. At that time Xandros does not have GRUB booting, different kind of booting at FIRST RELEASE (Xandros 1.0). Luckily I have backup CDs before giving technician to look up my pc. I did not have time for re-install them because i was tied up working on website projects on my main pc. I have two pcs at that time.

oyb:

Uspry1 - are u saying that ubuntu - that perfect , superfast, flawless, crashproof, bug proof system requires tweaks for optimal performance?

could those programs u referred to also be erthird party programs

by the way madam moderator - the name of the thread is 'Windows Vista Tweaks for Optimal System Performance '

@oyb

You still argue about Windows Vista against Linux you saying that Linux do not have those appearance, bootscreen and icon replacement---that when I come in showing you a proof that YOU ARE WRONG about linux. Ubuntu has all those things you not even bother to google them to tweak those things you need.

Do not believe what Anti-linux people wrote on sites because they not even try install Linux themselves---not bother to look up linux forum as well as wiki download forum to tweak linux performance!

I used to be Anti-Windows like you at that time it was Windows 3.1 that I refused to upgrade to Windows 95, later i learned that i was wrong!!!

20 years later, i was sick and tired of all Windows OS upgrade and too many flaws/glitches Microsoft has not change lately. I accustomed for too long!!!! Time for me to switch to Linux---Ubuntu!

oyb:

back to the original topic -

this isn't va tweak for optimal performance - but its a useful tool - qttabar

it enables you to run explorer windows in a multitabbed interface. works in both vista and xp. the reason i'm highlighting it is that it enables you to restore those explorer buttons that would otherwise only show in classic folders settings. there's a lot of other stuff it does. its tiny. requires .net framework 2.0 or greater

http://qttabbar.wikidot.com/

uspry1 - i wasn't using that as a means of comparison between visat and linux. i was going back to the original topic.

bigbrovar interupted me in midpost.

90% of the anti vista people are the same repaeating the complaints of others. i too - am an average computer user . and i'm running vista without problems. anyay like bigbrovar said - people fear what they don't understand . they also fear change - the only constant. why leave the cocoon of a seven year old os when u can still hide within it?

@uspry1

l am so grateful for your detailed information. l never knew windows 2000 and the rest of it will soon phase out. l do hope to learn more about it before 2010.

Thank you for your valued explanation.

@oyb

Can Windows applications run on Linux OS?

Yes, you need to install WINE emulator and/or CROSSOVER OFFICE emulator to Ubuntu OS obtaining Windows-based programs you use such as Microsoft Office 2007, Autocad, etc. I will give you instruction how to install WINE/CROSSOVER OFFICE on Ubuntu thread, not here. **CROSSOVER OFFICE is not a free, commerical software.

Former Xandros Linux OS in 6 years ago, i used WINE/CROSSOVER OFFICE emulator obtaining my Flash MX, Dreamweaver MX, Photoshop 7, Office XP, IE 6, it works BEAUTIFULLY. I always rely on checking WINE site for the latest update patches waiting for newer version of Flash/Dreamweaver/Office/IE to be resolved.

For 6 years, WINE and CROSSOVER OFFICE always announce the following Windows-based applications which is succeeded and which is failed by its symbol color: silver, gold, bronze and "X".

Only Ubuntu OS has succeeded that Windows-based applications i checked on WINE/CROSSOVER OFFICE periodically while all other Linux OS failed. That means Ubuntu is STABLE OS.

Only Ubuntu OS has 100% fully support on wireless network while all other linux OS failed. I rely on linux distro watch listening what linux users complaint the latest bug releases news starting last weekend after installed Ubuntu 8.04 for the first time. There are lot of bugs release i read and it also ANNOUNCES telling either [SOLVED] or [SUCCESS] that way it has built-in update manager to update all repositories to remove, add, or upgrade so quickly unlikely Windows OS that take times to resolve long time by adding "SERVICE PACK" that annoys me.

=======
All Linux OS can work on older computer machine by use minimal optimization which Windows Vista refused accepting any older computer machine that force people to buy newer computer systems (or newer part replacements:ram memory card, cpu processor)---THAT WASTE THEIR MONEY!!!!

@ uspry1

am amazed , am speechless , i mean , up it up , about my blog , i have quite a lot i am going to add , as soon as i have the time , leave oyb alone i was worse then him once , and i have seen worse pple change , but i will still pray for him so that he doesnt have to always buy 4gb or ram just to power an operating system ,

bigrovar:

@ uspry1

am amazed , am speechless , i mean , up it up , about my blog , i have quite a lot i am going to add , as soon as i have the time , leave oyb alone i was worse then him once , and i have seen worse people change , but i will still pray for him so that he doesnt have to always buy 4gb or ram just to power an operating system ,

not strictly true - i'm using 3gb of ram and 4gb of readyboost cache.

i went for 3gb because i am running a memory intensive app (autocad) and i didnt want autocad and vista fighting for memory. 1-2gb is alright for peeps who arent doing much with their systems.

VISTA IS bleeped UP, THATS ALL i CAN SAY!

the above poster constitutes 90% of the vista whiners out there._{( peeps who don't even know how to turn off capslock)}

they have never used it and if they have , they haven't got the faintest idea how to tweak the power button in start menu - so they run around bitching vista is fked up! u can bet they said the same when xp came out. and when 2000 came out and 98. . .and they'll say the ame thing when windows 7 comes out.

at least big brovar has points even if he has been solidly turnd by the Penguin.