Tgirl4real: @ Obadiah.

You sure like quoting from the old testament.

I'm coming back with more questions...

@ Mosthigh,

You know, it's a bit difficult knowing exactly where you stand. I see you seconding Jesusislord a lot, somewhere on another thread, he mentioned that Jesus died for his sins. Our brother here (which you seconded) says Jesus did not die for my sins, that I am paying for my sins. Any explanation on this?

I humbly awaited your detailed response (written with love and consideration for the reader) on the matter.

Tgirl4real:

Awww... Sorry dear Sir.

I just don't wanna open another thread...may be I should sha, but that will be 2mrw.

Sorry bruv.

Tgirl4real: Mosthigh of NL, are you purposely ignoring scriptures or you read a different bible? And i am asking sincerely.

How do we explain the several scriptures like - John 1: 29, that talk about Jesus dying for our sins?

I just read your post again...

Is the physical death the wages of our sin?

If Jesus' death profits me nothing, why did he say those that believe and [b]follow him [/b]will not taste of the second death?

shdemidemi: Romans 3
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.



How una dey, I just paste passage from bible there as I dey waka pass..........

MostHigh:

If I remember correctly the masters exact request is

1. DENY YOURSELF

2. CARRY YOUR CROSS

3. FOLLOW ME

Follow him to where? Galgotha?

Or is it Asokoro or Lekki?

Why are you pretending you dont understand the masters words?

Taking away the sins of the world means he has set the right example for all to follow

Those who are wise will follow in his exact footsteps no joke.

And this will bring about a new heaven and a new earth

the rest will burn in fire.

Regardin the the wages of sin:

To answer you question directly, spiritual death is the the true wage of sin

Lawlessness is spiritual DEATH

Spiritual death ultimately leads to physical death as is testified in the book of genesis.

Now from prophecy we see that only 144 thousand males will truly follow yashua in his footsteps these ones have overcome the 1st death which is spiritual.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death [/b]hath no power." Revelation 20:6

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the [b]second death." Revelation 2:11

Try and read John 10:18 again Yashua is proclaiming to the wise that the second death hath no power over him

Just as I testify to you that the 2nd death hath no power over me, I will speak the truth to the end even if it means being slain and this is why my father loves me and because of this love it is almost impossible for the plans of the evil ones to succeed.

I am not worried for the hairs on my head are numberd

Its a state of mind.

obadiah777: VERY POIGNANT POST SIRE. YOU HAVE SPOKEN WELL. YOU ARE THE TRUE SON OF YOUR FATHER. YASHUA THAT IS . TOP OF THE MORNING TO YOU SIRE.

Tgirl4real: Mosthigh of NL, are you purposely ignoring scriptures or you read a different bible? And i am asking sincerely.

How do we explain the several scriptures like - John 1: 29, that talk about Jesus dying for our sins?

I just read your post again...

Is the physical death the wages of our sin?

If Jesus' death profits me nothing, why did he say those that believe and follow him will not taste of the second death?

MostHigh:

Greetings beloved brother and top of the morning to you also.

I am only a vessel brother, the words are not mine.

Call it possession if you like, but it has to be said.

These folks dont know how fast time is running out the elect are being woken from slumber and being SEALED.

We can only pray.

obadiah777: TIS A GOOD QUESTION YOU ASKED ABOUT JOHN 1 VS 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.. SEE THE MISTAKE SO MANY PEOPLE MAKE IS THINKING WE ARE TO WORSHIP CHRIST THE MAN. THIS IS IDOLATRY. IN FACT YOU ARE NOT TO MAKE GRAVEN IMAGES OF HIM. CHRIST IS NOT A MAN TO YOU. WHAT IS HE ? >>>> JOHN 1 VS 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, <<< HE IS THE WORD. THE BIBLE.
REVELATION 19 and his name is called The Word of God.

SO CHRIST THE WORD OF GOD ( BIBLE ) IS THE ONE WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. AND HOW DOES HE DO THAT ? BY YOU GETTING IN THE WORD, STUDYING TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED AND THEN OBEYING THE LAWS IN IT. THE WORD OFFERED YOU A PLATFORM FOR YOU TO TAKE YOUR SIN AWAY. WAS NOT THE CASE WITH THE GENTILES WHEN ONLY THE JEWS WERE UNDER THE LAW. THE GENTILES DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THEIR SINS TAKEN AWAY BY THE WORD ( CHRIST )

MostHigh:

As usual always out of context.

"Propitiation means the turning away of wrath by an offering. In relation to soteriology, propitiation means placating or satisfying the wrath of God by the atoning sacrifice of Christ."

If yashua be a sacrifice for your sins then what sacrifice ARE YOU AS A PRIEST SUPPOSED TO OFFER [/b]and why offer any sacrifice at all seeing he has paid the price?

Rom 12:1-2 I urge you, then, brothers, remembering the mercies of God,[b] to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, dedicated and acceptable to God; that is the kind of worship for you, as sensible people.

You cannot keep on sacrificing if you truly belive he was sacrificed for your sins

Get it?

obadiah777: TIS A GOOD QUESTION YOU ASKED ABOUT JOHN 1 VS 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.. SEE THE MISTAKE SO MANY PEOPLE MAKE IS THINKING WE ARE TO WORSHIP CHRIST THE MAN. THIS IS IDOLATRY. IN FACT YOU ARE NOT TO MAKE GRAVEN IMAGES OF HIM. CHRIST IS NOT A MAN TO YOU. WHAT IS HE ? >>>> JOHN 1 VS 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, <<< HE IS THE WORD. THE BIBLE.
REVELATION 19 and his name is called The Word of God.

SO CHRIST THE WORD OF GOD ( BIBLE ) IS THE ONE WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. AND HOW DOES HE DO THAT ? BY YOU GETTING IN THE WORD, STUDYING TO SHOW YOURSELF APPROVED AND THEN OBEYING THE LAWS IN IT. THE WORD OFFERED YOU A PLATFORM FOR YOU TO TAKE YOUR SIN AWAY. WAS NOT THE CASE WITH THE GENTILES WHEN ONLY THE JEWS WERE UNDER THE LAW. THE GENTILES DID NOT HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THEIR SINS TAKEN AWAY BY THE WORD ( CHRIST )

NB- THE VERSE DID NOT SAY 'DIE FOR SINS OF THE WORLD'. IT SAYS 'TAKES AWAY SINS OF THE WORLD'. AND IT DOES THAT BY YOU READING THE WORD ( CHRIST ) AND ABIDING BY WHAT IT SAYS AND THEN IT HAS TAKEN AWAY YOUR SINS. WHEN YOU START OBEYING THE LAWS YOU SIN NO MORE MEANING YOUR SINS ARE TAKEN AWAY BY THE WORD ( CHRIST )

MostHigh:

If I remember correctly the masters exact request is

1. DENY YOURSELF

2. CARRY YOUR CROSS

3. FOLLOW ME

Follow him to where? Galgotha?

Or is it Asokoro or Lekki?

Why are you pretending you dont understand the masters words?

Taking away the sins of the world means he has set the right example for all to follow

Those who are wise will follow in his exact footsteps no joke.

And this will bring about a new heaven and a new earth

the rest will burn in fire.

Regardin the the wages of sin:

To answer you question directly, spiritual death is the the true wage of sin

Lawlessness is spiritual DEATH

Spiritual death ultimately leads to physical death as is testified in the book of genesis.

Now from prophecy we see that only 144 thousand males will truly follow yashua in his footsteps these ones have overcome the 1st death which is spiritual.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the [b]second death [/b]hath no power." Revelation 20:6

He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the [b]second death." Revelation 2:11[/b]

Try and read John 10:18 again Yashua is proclaiming to the wise that the second death hath no power over him

Just as I testify to you that the 2nd death hath no power over me, I will speak the truth to the end even if it means being slain and this is why my father loves me and because of this love it is almost impossible for the plans of the evil ones to succeed.

I am not worried for the hairs on my head are numberd

Its a state of mind.

Tgirl4real:


May be I don't. That is why I am asking.




hmm...




<sup>Yea, That's the scripture I was referring to. I read it again and saw that it's "he that overcometh..."

If lawlessness is spiritual death and spiritual death is the first death and the 144,000 have overcome the first death - spiritual death (i.e. they kept the law and are not lawless), right?), where does the second death now come in?</sup>



Mosthigh:Celestial bodies AKA heavenly bodies or ressurected bodies etc do not percieve the second death AKA PHYSICAL DEATH as the end.

It is more of a transitional phase between this world and the world to come (Olam Ha-Ba)

Hence yashuas statement in john 10 telling us that because he has overcome the world he can go and come as he pleases, this is true for all followers of yashua.

^{Secondly, if the 144,000 are male, what happens to people like me?}




Mosthigh: Well we can deduce from deutronomy 19:6 that the initial plan was for a THEOCRATIC KINGDON, by theocracy we mean the rule of the father in the home as priest and king and the most high over the father..

1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. this is the theocratic order of things.

The request of deutronomy 19 was rejected outright and the people instead demanded for a priesthood to be put over them, a priesthood to cleanse them from thier sins (folly)

The 144 thousand individuals represent 144 thousand family names

To be more precise Isa 4:1 ¶ And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

So you see my sister no woman enters the kingdom of heaven on her own she must be coverd by a man, be it father, husband or sibling



^{Over him Yeshua or over me his follower?}



Mosthigh:Both That is if you are a true follower



^{Is this you speaking or Yeshua?}


mosthigh:Both And I Proclaim it with conviction

The second death has no power over you cos you have overcome the first death which is the spiritual death...Ohh! I see... I get it now.

^{Hmmm..here is a naughty one, if you have overcome the first death ( which leads to physical death, are you gonna live to see Jesus' second coming?}

Tgirl4real: Can you edit your post please, I can hardly make out your response? Thanks

Also, You didn't answer that last question properly o.

I mean if u have overcome spriritaul death, what is the need for you to taste physical death?

MostHigh:

Apologies for the way the response came, if you look closely I started all my responses with my screen name
mosthigh:

regarding you last question let me try and answer this another way

What humans call physical death is only a transition, and this transition is inevitable even methusela had to move on.

So you see it is about a need to taste death,but rather it is about the natural occurence of things.

The Jews refer to this transition as Olam Haba, or world to come the afterlife

The afterlife Simply put is the reincarnated SOUL

Hope that was more helpfull

Tgirl4real:

Yes, it is.
So, you support that the soul is immortal?

As per your first response, I later saw your input but was too lazy to copy n paste. I will respond shortly.

MostHigh:

Absolutely, the soul is immortal.

Even metaphysics and the sciences teach that energy cannot be created nor destroyed only transferd

Tgirl4real:

So, those that will be thrown into the lake of fire will burn forever and ever?

Q: If lawlessness is spiritual death and spiritual death is the first death and the 144,000 have overcome the first death - spiritual death (i.e. they kept the law and are not lawless), right?), where does the second death now come in?

[b]Mosthigh:[/b]Celestial bodies AKA heavenly bodies or ressurected bodies etc do not percieve the second death AKA PHYSICAL DEATH as the end.

It is more of a transitional phase between this world and the world to come (Olam Ha-Ba)

MostHigh: Hence yashuas statement in john 10 telling us that because he has overcome the world he can go and come as he pleases, this is true for all followers of yashua.

Q: Secondly, if the 144,000 are male, what happens to people like me?


Mosthigh: Well we can deduce from deutronomy 19:6 that the initial plan was for a THEOCRATIC KINGDOm, by theocracy we mean the rule of the father in the home as priest and king and the most high over the father.

MostHigh: 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. this is the theocratic order of things.

The request of deutronomy 19 was rejected outright and the people instead demanded for a priesthood to be put over them, a priesthood to cleanse them from thier sins (folly)

The 144 thousand individuals represent 144 thousand family names

To be more precise Isa 4:1 ¶ And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

So you see my sister no woman enters the kingdom of heaven on her own she must be coverd by a man, be it father, husband or sibling.

MostHigh: The second death is but an illusion

MostHigh:

They will be cast under the ground for 1000 yrs (literally) after which there will be a GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT. kindly google that for further research.

Tgirl4real:

hmmm...

I purposely didn't direct it at you cos you somehow brushed it earlier on. Wait for your turn... hehehehe.. Just joking.

How are you?

Tgirl4real: ohh!

I didn't mean it that way. May be I misused the word brush. What I meant is that you addressed it briefly in one of your posts.

Where is Mosthigh BTW?

Tgirl4real:

^{OK. I get that. When you die (physical), you sleep to be resurrected at the second coming, right?}


Right.


^{I don't understand this part. You mean you can die and come back to life as you please? Explain further.}

Read john 10:18 again what the master is saying there is true for all true children of God, even if you dont believe for faith sake then belive because the master says so

The door swings boths ways, if you can leave this realm of your own free will then you can come back of you own free will as well




I know that. But they wanted a king by force by fire.



<sup>What?

I was born into Islam. None of my family members are saved to the best of my knowledge and my hubby and I don't agree on doctrinal matter. What will become of me o mosthigh of NL?</sup>



Even the islamic caliphate is theocratic in order, read up on the structure of the caliphate

^{How do u mean?}

THe word death as it is percieved by most means a cessation of life, a misnomer.

Now what we are saying is that there is no end to life

the physical realm is but one side of a coin

Life can niether be created nor destroyed.





OK

Tgirl4real: lol.

BTW - By The Way

Btw - Between

OP: Original Poster

At least you are learning from me

Oya, reply my post o.


I read Obadiah's post - dying and Celestial beings, is that what you mean when you said d follower of Yashua can go n come as they will?

Tgirl4real: OK. I can't quote with the way you made that post cos I am on mobile.

I see if I can outline my questions one after the other.

1. If we are to be raised at the second coming, what's the ish about coming and going as we please?

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The verse above speaks of a mystry that has been revealed already.

Some people will not have to taste physical death to be raised from spiritual death in the twinkling of an eye once faced with the truth and the conviction of the holy spirit they will experience rebirth

So you see the second coming is always and ever happening, the word is with us as we speak.

Now Regarding the second coming of yashua in the flesh, it is true that a greater multitude will be awakened from slumber but even before that particular event happens some individulas will have experienced ressurection cause of thier faith in the written WORD AKA holy spirit AKA Yashua meshayach

[/b]2. Are you saying you can determine when you die? u need to explain this please.]

Oh of course.

you can be exactly as your master is but not greater

Yashua knew he was going to be slain by those scoffers, this was the cup that he wanted to pass by in his prayer at gethsamane.

But did he run? no he didnt this is what it means to lay your life down willingly for the fathers work

In other words he prayed for a quick death (let these soilders come quickly and get it over with, the waiting must have been quite unbearable)

Then I saw the souls of those [b]who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years.



[

quote]3. My question here isnt about Islam, or are you saying Islam is also a way to walk God?

How will I be saved considering that I have no 'saved' male in my family?

4. So, how will the unjust be purnished? And what those casting in the lake of fire mean?. with scriptures abeg.

5. You said life can neither be created nor lost. I take that as God is Life and the giver of it. If God withdraws life from someone isn't that death - physical?

And what does it mean to destroy body n soul in hell?

6. On the celestial, is it only those that kept the faith till the end that will come back celestial

7. Accor to scriptures, are we not suppose to sleep n wake up to eternal life or judgement?

I know you asked me to check up white throne Judgement on google, but I haven't.

What I understand by judgement is dat the unjust will be cast into the lake of fire, while d believers face another kind of judgement.