RiceProducers:


Won't work how?. You need to know the use case first. The motorcycles are not fighting platforms. They are silent engine 2-wheelers for recce and assault. Using them in the field might involve frequent stops for observation with field glasses or NV scopes.
They are ideally for minimizing effect of ambushes and IEDs on the platoon.

I don't think the men shoot in the mounted position on the bikes

My point is not the utility of motorbikes. It's the modifications that have been done on these bikes with which I'm quibbling.
You've either forgotten your high school physics lessons or never took the subject, if you're defending this abomination.
Presuming of course, that your high school years are behind you.

GeneralFarouq:

I think it boils down to preference.
Some soldiers would pick the Tavir design over the conventional ones..
But where majority hates the Tavor design, it better for the army to switch to the conventional style, which leads to easy and general maintenance.
In those pics, majority are with modern aks not the bullpups.

So the ak qualified more as symbol of status

The fact you're talking about the Tavor, when I'm talking about a different bullpup, renders your contribution moot.
You did notice that it's the Venezuelan officers who are carrying the CR-21, right?

There are days when I wonder why I remain on this thread. It's certainly deteriorated from when I first lurked here.

RiceProducers:


Won't work how?. You need to know the use case first. The motorcycles are not fighting platforms. They are silent engine 2-wheelers for recce and assault. Using them in the field might involve frequent stops for observation with field glasses or NV scopes.
They are ideally for minimizing effect of ambushes and IEDs on the platoon.

I don't think the men shoot in the mounted position on the bikes

Physics101 the ballistic protection in front will sooo produce drag on the motorcycle that it will be impossible to go at full throttle.

The elevated shooters seat will change the bikes center of gravity and there's obviously no measures to counter this.

Let's look at a scenario where the bike has to high tail from a dangerous situation. How do you think it will handle at turns with this changed center of gravity.

The intention is good oooo but..... The product is lacking.

Lurker4Long:

The fact you're talking about the Tavor, when I'm talking about a different bullpup, renders your contribution moot.
You did notice that it's the Venezuelan officers who are carrying the CR-21, right?

I mentioned "Tavor design" to mean and include other bullpups... Each time I try to type the latter word and hear it imaginary sound it kinda come with an uneasy feeling
Hence doing away with it entirely...
Guess u missed the "design phrase"
Over all, it what u saw and understood from the write up, that u replied to.

mekussa:


Physics101 the ballistic protection in front will sooo produce drag on the motorcycle that it will be impossible to go at full throttle.

The elevated shooters seat will change the bikes center of gravity and there's obviously no measures to counter this.

Let's look at a scenario where the bike has to high tail from a dangerous situation. How do you think it will handle at turns with this changed center of gravity.

The intention is good oooo but..... The product is lacking.

Most likely they will jettison the design after some field assessment ..
The old design was good... They should keep the shield and discard the mountain chair

Marais explained the navy and air force were severely short-changed when it came to maritime capabilities.

Meanwhile, the South African Air Force (SAAF) only has one Dakota [Douglas C-47 Skytrain] aeroplane.

The plane is more than 80 years old but needs to do maritime patrols, reconnaissance flights and other maritime flights.

“We urgently require the procurement of the most suited and best value maritime patrol aircraft.”

Other aeroplanes in the SAAF include two 60-year-old C130 cargo planes, which cannot realistically assist with maritime duties. They are used for transporting soldiers and supplies within South Africa and to other African countries.

Marais said the Oryx and Rooivalk helicopters also needed to be upgraded to Mark II versions.

The South African Navy only has four frigates and three submarines at its disposal, and few of these are getting their required sea hours.

“Only one frigate is serviceable with the possibility of one more to be brought into service,” Marais said. Of the submarines, only one is partially serviceable.

The costs for essential midlife upgrades of the frigates is close to R700m, while the submarines will cost about R660 million each.

In addition, the smaller strike crafts are at the end of their lives, Marais said.

Originally, there was a plan to procure both inshore patrol vessels and outshore patrol vessels, but due to budget constraints, this was amended to provide for only 3 IPVs. The first is only due for delivery this month.

“A disciplined SANDF is non-negotiable,” he said.

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/security/412758-south-africa-has-one-80-year-old-plane-left-to-patrol-its-seas.html?fbclid=IwAR0efscKo1-4f755t5jG05y5DSdq0WgJ0bCvlf6xaD6y77EyM7zbk_uXqk0

The political class are a shame as usual

Lurker4Long:


They're not SA Army SF, but SANDF SF, drawn from all services: Army, Navy, Air Force and Military Health. Which is why, as a strategic asset, they are under the direct command of Chief of Joint Ops.
But I suspect you know this and were using shorthand. Incidentally, I agree with the Defence Review recommendation that 1 Para should be moved to report to CJOps, as backup to SF. Chief of Army won't like it, but it makes sense. In any case, 44 Para Regiment now has a 2nd Para battalion in 4 Para and should have no problem giving up 1 Para.

We'll wait and see what the new Chief of SANDF, who previously commanded SF Brigade, does.

not short hand just a typo I was actually busy doing a post on the SA Army..... Actually wrote "SA Army armour" but then I saw the photos of our SFs with UGVs and posted that instead....I thought i deleted the Army part and just wanted to write SA SFs....

Odunayaw:


https://mybroadband.co.za/news/security/412758-south-africa-has-one-80-year-old-plane-left-to-patrol-its-seas.html?fbclid=IwAR0efscKo1-4f755t5jG05y5DSdq0WgJ0bCvlf6xaD6y77EyM7zbk_uXqk0

The political class are a shame as usual

Marais is the Shadow Minister for the opposition party, he knows very well how the serviceability of our offensive platforms work... Submarines: 1 in service, 1 in reserve, 1 under maintenance. Frigates more or less the same, give or take 1-2 in service.... Also there have been 2 subs at sea in the last couple of months.... But let's not let the truth get in the way of political grandstanding

However Rooivalk upgrade is a must, Oryx was upgraded just a couple of years ago to mk2 standard... Maybe he didn't remember project drummer??

MPA procurement is a must!!

New medium and tactical airlift to replace our C130s and casa 212s are also a must...

mekussa:


Physics101 the ballistic protection in front will sooo produce drag on the motorcycle that it will be impossible to go at full throttle.

The elevated shooters seat will change the bikes center of gravity and there's obviously no measures to counter this.

Let's look at a scenario where the bike has to high tail from a dangerous situation. How do you think it will handle at turns with this changed center of gravity.

The intention is good oooo but..... The product is lacking.

Elevated shooters don't change c. g because the bike is also weighted at the lower front by the ballistic protection of the rider.

This other stuff about drag is irrelevant. The speeds we are talking about are too low for drag to be a design consideration. Drag is not a design consideration for tricycles for instance.

RiceProducers:


Elevated shooters don't change c. g because the bike is also weighted at the lower front by the ballistic protection of the rider.

This other stuff about drag is irrelevant. The speeds we are talking about are too low for drag to be a design consideration. Drag is not a design consideration for tricycles for instance.

It's okay if you don't know something and you keep quiet....you don't have to talk , so people won't laugh at you, or you just learn and research and understand the point the person is making.

Tobiloba24072:



It's okay if you don't know something and you keep quiet....you don't have to talk , so people won't laugh at you, or you just learn and research and understand the point the person is making.

Haha but the guy made a point na.

The bike would be used to chase criminal in areas not motorable and would mostly move at slower speed. So drag is irrelevant.

No need for insult please.

RiceProducers:


Elevated shooters don't change c. g because the bike is also weighted at the lower front by the ballistic protection of the rider.

This other stuff about drag is irrelevant. The speeds we are talking about are too low for drag to be a design consideration. Drag is not a design consideration for tricycles for instance.

So, in your book, the center of gravity is just about weight (and if for some weird reason it is, the ballistic protection weighs as much as a full grown man)?
Well, if high speed isnt a consideration for bikes in a combat zone for you, I concede to your high intellect.

No be engineering class be this sha.
I drop my pen.

iblawi:


Haha but the guy made a point na.

The bike would be used to chase criminal in areas not motorable and would mostly move at slower speed. So drag is irrelevant.

No need for insult please.

Woo, I don't have power to teach anybody basic physics....Google is everybody's friend, if Google doesn't work, go for lesson at quora

Tobiloba24072:



It's okay if you don't know something and you keep quiet....you don't have to talk , so people won't laugh at you, or you just learn and research and understand the point the person is making.

Rice producers made a valid point... No need for arrogance
Am not an expert in this field, but guaging from common knowledge of evrdaylife, the point he made is logically concievable.
Sometimes, You lots would go read a couple of materials on some particular topics and come here presenting ur statements as expert opinion/ evidence

iblawi:


Haha but the guy made a point na.

The bike would be used to chase criminal in areas not motorable and would mostly move at slower speed. So drag is irrelevant.

No need for insult please.

They can only chase down criminals on foot or bicycles or keke. Criminals on bikes with similar capacity without there modifications will outrun these bikes anytime, anyday.

To be fair to the army, i believe its a prototype(or concept)still being tested and with time, the.flaws will be worked out but..... Like its being pointed out here.....
This motorcycle modification isn't okay at all. A fact I feel they should know by now

GeneralFarouq:

Guy made a valid point... No need for arrogance

Scientifically, he didn't make a single valid point, I wouldn't argue with a lawyer even in parts of the constitution that I might know in layman's terms, because it's far from my field.
Even with my science background I wouldn't argue with a microbiologist regarding high quantities of biological matters in a pond, regarding the oxygen level in that body of water been enough for fish survival.
If he doesn't know, he should keep quiet,because it seems aerodynamics and mechanical balances are far from his field.

mekussa:


They can only chase down criminals on foot or bicycles or keke. Criminals on bikes with similar capacity without there modifications will outrun these bikes anytime, anyday.

To be fair to the army, i believe its a prototype(or concept)still being tested and with time, the.flaws will be worked out but..... Like its being pointed out here.....
This motorcycle modification isn't okay at all. A fact I feel they should know by now

Apt.

With the motorbike, won't the rider also have the discomfort of scalding hot spent ammo falling onto his head, body plus the deafening sound.

Would this contraption be better? Admittedly it's from one of those ragtag terror groups.

BlackBaron:
With the motorbike, won't the rider also have the discomfort of scalding hot spent ammo falling onto his head, body plus the deafening sound.

Would this contraption be better? Admittedly it's from one of those ragtag terror groups.

With this contraption, it seems you have to get in front of the enemy to put it to use.. hence, except if we are running from bandit or parked it application is limited

jl115:
Marais is the Shadow Minister for the opposition party, he knows very well how the serviceability of our offensive platforms work... Submarines: 1 in service, 1 in reserve, 1 under maintenance. Frigates more or less the same, give or take 1-2 in service.... Also there have been 2 subs at see in the last couple of months.... But let's not let the truth get in the way of political grandstanding

However Rooivalk upgrade is a must, Oryx was upgraded just a couple of years ago to mk2 standard... Maybe he didn't remember project drummer??

MPA procurement is a must!!

New medium and tactical airlift to replace our C130s and casa 212s are also a must...

There's something I dont understand about this yapping about downsizing. 55k standing military is too small for SA, what do you think?

Odunayaw:
There's something I dont understand about this yapping about downsizing. 55k standing military is too small for SA, what do you think?

They probably don't think the country has any serious threats(especially from their neighbours) In the near or immediate future.

They also probably don't think the SA defence force are going for any major foreign deployment or intervention anytime soon.

They also probably think the police has all it takes to secure the country.

This is how the average politician thinks and thus, unfortunately, will they handle the budget.

BlackBaron:
With the motorbike, won't the rider also have the discomfort of scalding hot spent ammo falling onto his head, body plus the deafening sound.

Would this contraption be better? Admittedly it's from one of those ragtag terror groups.

I have seen videos of the way this is used by Talibans. The motorcycle is parked and then the gun is dismounted and placed on a very stable 2 leg stands, the motorcycle standing as the third leg so it is stable. The gunner has nearly 360 degree rotation. You can also raise it up and down.

mekussa:


They can only chase down criminals on foot or bicycles or keke. Criminals on bikes with similar capacity without there modifications will outrun these bikes anytime, anyday.

To be fair to the army, i believe its a prototype(or concept)still being tested and with time, the.flaws will be worked out but..... Like its being pointed out here.....
This motorcycle modification isn't okay at all. A fact I feel they should know by now

In my earlier comment, I already said asked if the gunner have seat belt and if the bike is just for photoshoot because the bike can not be used in operation for so many reasons I don't want to start listing.

But when having argument like this one, we should try as much as possible not to insult one another because this is a forum consisting of different people with different levels of understanding on specific issues.

We can still try even though we are force to insult some people sometimes.

like i said a few days ago, the cheer arrogance in our population is maddening. if you think someone is wrong, make your point and leave it, without disrespect or arrogance. no be like say the person hurt you lol. why take shit so personal all the time. smh

GeneralFarouq:

Rice producers made a valid point... No need for arrogance
Am not an expert in this field, but guaging from common knowledge of evrdaylife, the point he made is logically concievable.
Sometimes, You lots would go read a couple of materials on some particular topics and come here presenting ur statements as expert opinion/ evidence

iblawi:



In my earlier comment, I already said asked if the gunner have seat belt and if the bike is just for photoshoot because the bike can not be used in operation for so many reasons I don't want to start listing.

But when having argument like this one, we should try as much as possible not to insult one another because this is a forum consisting of different people with different levels of understanding on specific issues.

We can still try even though we are force to insult some people sometimes.

I haven't insulted ANYONE directly or indirectly with the comment you quoted

Odunayaw:
There's something I dont understand about this yapping about downsizing. 55k standing military is too small for SA, what do you think?

if they are going to downsize then they should start at the top with our Generals of which there are far to many, our problem isn't size related but due to being bloated at the top hence 50% of our budget goes to salaries

jl115:
if they are going to downsize then they should start at the top with our Generals of which there are far to many, our problem isn't size related but due to being bloated at the top hence 50% of our budget goes to salaries

How hard is it politically to just do it abeg!

SuperSixSeven:


A high self esteem comment from someone that has actually never fired an rifle.

Are you referring to me by any chance?

experts in the house please keep insulting the rest of us who ain't experts when we make comments, so we will all sadly leave this thread and then you can have an expert only thread let's see how exciting and entertaining it will be

willybaby:
experts in the house please keep insulting the rest of us who ain't experts when we make comments, so we will all sadly leave this thread and then you can have an expert only thread let's see how exciting and entertaining it will be

Nobody insulted you na. Your opinion on this issue is highly appreciated.

Odunayaw:
How hard is it politically to just do it abeg!

nearly impossible