Nashville:
If lots of people had a good bond with their dads as we have seen on this thread, yet these same people just say Nigerian dads are not good at parenting, then something just does not add up. That is why I have been asking, please share your own personal experience with your dad or how your husband is acting. These Nigerian men are our fathers, husbands, brothers and children and we can start with our own experiences. We all have several examples of Baba Sule and Baba Muyideen who had ten wives and never cared for anyone. But I don't think Baba Sule represents the average Nigerian man.

100 likes...damn..excellent post

How can good seed come from a bad tree...saying there are attributes which can be improved is better..there is always room for improvement

Nashville:

That is why I like reading your posts. You do have an analytical mind. If the average American dad had to drive three hours everyday, then go battle generator, nepa, water, police etc, you will see a difference in them too. Nigeria is tough and it is tough for everyone. I am not trying to give excuses because bonding and guiding your children is one of the essentials of parenting and everyone should try as much as possible to spend time with their kids.Nigeria has over 170 million people so there are millions of examples of bad fathers, good fathers and the ones that are trying. But what I dont understand is when people just make statements like "we all know Nigerian men are useless".

If we ask the question - "Do Nigerian men spend quality time with their children?" I am sure 80% of the gender bashers will says Nigerian men are drunks who leave parenting to the women. If you rephrase the same question and ask "Did your father spend quality time with you or does your husband spend quality time with your children"? These same people will say they had loving dads or have hands on husbands. The two questions in theory should give the same answer but it all depends on the way it is phrased. If lots of people had a good bond with their dads as we have seen on this thread, yet these same people just say Nigerian dads are not good at parenting, then something just does not add up. That is why I have been asking, please share your own personal experience with your dad or how your husband is acting. These Nigerian men are our fathers, husbands, brothers and children and we can start with our own experiences. We all have several examples of Baba Sule and Baba Muyideen who had ten wives and never cared for anyone. But I don't think Baba Sule represents the average Nigerian man.

There are lots of irresponsible men and there are lots of hands on dads out there. There are also lots of people who have "genuine excuses" why they are not spending time with their kids. What we should be discussing is how to help those who may want to but dont seem to have the time to be hands on dads. I had earlier suggested family vacation but I know it can be expensive. But the truth is that we can encourage people that rather than buy that new car or land, why dont you go on a family vacation where the whole family will spend time bonding. It will be worth more than the car or land in future. Sometimes some men should just avoid going for that owambe or friends wedding in order to take the kids for swimming or something else. What they need is a paradigm shift so that they can prioritise their families first. Those are the kind of discussions we should be having rather than just making blanket statements like "we all know Nigerian men are useless". We should remember we are all from the same society, the boys cannot be brought up one way and the girls another!

Nashville defender of the brethren!Lol! Remember that a Nigerian guy started this thread based on his observations.

Nigerian daddies are definitely doing better than their fathers but there is a lot of room for improvement.

The reason why a Nigerian dad will be hands on in Jand and be useless in Naija is the same reason a Nigerian will queue for hours aboard and be jumping queues on Nigeri.

Most people know the right thing to do. Whether there is the right motivation or punishment to do it is another keetle of fish.

Madam buka... why that word useless?

bukatyne:

Nashville defender of the brethren!Lol! Remember that a Nigerian guy started this thread based on his observations.

Nigerian daddies are definitely doing better than their fathers but there is a lot of room for improvement.

The reason why a Nigerian dad will be hands on in Jand and be useless in Naija is the same reason a Nigerian will queue for hours aboard and be jumping queues on Nigeri.

Most people know the right thing to do. Whether there is the right motivation or punishment to do it is another keetle of fish.

Now we are getting to the real problem which is what I have been saying all along. Most people know the right thing to do but we need to understand is why they dont they do it. An irresponsible man will always be irresponsible wherever he is, but why are some Nigerian dads hands on abroad and not hands on in Nigeria? The simple answer is that alot of the stress they go through in Nigeria, they do not have the same abroad. When you live abroad and your house is just 15 mins drive from your office, you wouldnt be too stressed. There is power, water runs freely, no family member coming to beg you for money. You will be more relaxed. Of course you will have more time with the kids too and the environment also helps. There are parks 10 mins drive from every home so its easy. Living abroad is less stressful and generally more family friendly.

Compare that to Nigeria where the stress is alot. Even on weekends when you wish you could take the kids out, and then you realise the closest park is 1 hr away (without traffic), you begin to think twice. Mind you this problem is not common to dads alone, even working mums complain they dont spend as much time with the kids too. I have lots of friends who just travel abroad just to escape the stress in Nigeria.

Again this is not excusing bad behavior, but we need to understand the real problem first before we can solve it. I am just worried we may be passing the wrong messages here. If we just agree Nigerian men are no good useless drunkards, then you tell a young man reading this thread that, that behaviour is the norm. Or if a young lady is dating am irresponsible guy, what you are telling her is that most guys out there are like that so she is in good company. There is alot of room for improvement no doubt and I have already shared my thoughts on how we can improve.

CC,Uju said the truth concerning most dads. The eg I gave b4 happens always and that example is in my family. Funny enof,the guy's dad is exactly the opposite. On some occasions I've been in his house,I ve not seen him carryn his child.
All d kids r very close to mummy.
Some of these men behave differently outside bc pple and govt r watching. Any fuckup,u r arrested.
Still there r some u can't but simply envy. They r outstandin fathers and who wouldn't lv them.
I think orientation and pride plays a vital part.

biolabee: Madam buka... why that word useless?

Hi BB,

How service and family?

What is the opposite of useful?
.

@ nashville,stress no matter how will never make u an irresponsible father. Are the wives not passin tru the same?
Its just ego and orientation. It will make me less of a man if I'm seen playing pooka a poo with my toddler or chasin after the grown ones in my compd.
Men like that always blame stress and husslin to take care of d family for their lack of responsibility and sensitivity.

I wish they know what they r missing out on.

Thanks ma
All is well

We all know the opposite of useful but I refuse to believe naija men are useless

You all are married to one
We were fathered by one..

Mothers here are raising them

So that word is not necessary

Remember divorce is an english word

The same oyinbos who are useful are the ones who burned down tottenham

That's why the thread at first seemed to be a naija male bashing thread

bukatyne:


Hi BB,

How service and family?

What is the opposite of useful?
.

*sitting on the fence and wondering where step on but everywhere is broken bottles and I have no shoes on*

yellowpawpaw: @ nashville,stress no matter how will never make u an irresponsible father. Are the wives not passin tru the same?
Its just ego and orientation. It will make me less of a man if I'm seen playing pooka a poo with my toddler or chasin after the grown ones in my compd.
Men like that always blame stress and husslin to take care of d family for their lack of responsibility and sensitivity.

I wish they know what they r missing out on.

I beg to differ, true stress can cause all kindsa katakata from physical to mental and/or emotional imbalance. Perhaps women as a result of having been programmed (I use that for lack of a better word) somewhat to believe that the success/failure of a family unit is solely up to them have a higher threshold for this kinda stress than most men.

Thank you Uju and yellowpawpaw.

What you ladies wrote is exactly what debrief was trying to convey until people started jumping down her throat like she was pulling stuff out of thin air and won't let off even though she clearly stated she said most Nigerian men.

Even if all the people here had fantastic dads it still doesn't make up for the number of emotionally distant fathers out there. It doesn't!!!!!!!


That one is not naive or myopic to think how it was for them growing up or how it is for them now is how it is for everyone does not mean one had a terrible childhood (the logic behind that kind of thought is just very juvenile and quite frankly stupid....must one be directly affected by something to know about it? If I talked about the wonderful dads around me, does it change the fact that many many many children out there don't have the same experience? Does is Change the fact that most men think bonding with their children is beneath them?

Like I stated earlier, I'm glad it was a guy who started this thread because it just shows glaringly what is really going on here. If the issue causing wahala is truly about how men are being portrayed and not people just having an aversion for some user names, why didn't the defenders of Nigerian men take issue with the OP for opening this kinda thread? Why didn't they take issue with the very first response to the thread? Why was it until debrief posted....stating exactly what many of us know to be reality, stating the reason OP opened the thread, expanding on what most respondents have written..did it suddenly become male bashing?!

If the real problem is about how Nigerian men are being portrayed. ...then the thread itself should be called out. Period!!!!!

Chillisauce:

Wtf! I still don't understand what your point is or the message you're passing across.

From bonding with ones kids we get to this.

Clearly It seems you are either deranged or lack common sense . It can be both.

Now learn how to respond to threads and state your opinion.

Move along and let others read and state theirs.

Don't quote ppl if you don't have any thing reasonable to say, some ppl actually are very busy and have little time to spend trying to understand what you are saying.

Write in a universal language

Did I mention, learn to pass across your opinion.

Now you have my attention, run along you deranged fellow.

This is the last time I will respond to you.

.

Just what I thought .... Same old line

I'm gonna back off you on this thread and keep your cloak on ..chicken!! . you're welcome.

Happy Sunday to you too.

naijababe:

I beg to differ, true stress can cause all kindsa katakata from physical to mental and/or emotional imbalance. Perhaps women as a result of having been programmed (I use that for lack of a better word) somewhat to believe that the success/failure of a family unit is solely up to them have a higher threshold for this kinda stress than most men.

Realistically true.... Spot on.

yellowpawpaw: @ nashville,stress no matter how will never make u an irresponsible father. Are the wives not passin tru the same?
Its just ego and orientation. It will make me less of a man if I'm seen playing pooka a poo with my toddler or chasin after the grown ones in my compd.
Men like that always blame stress and husslin to take care of d family for their lack of responsibility and sensitivity.

I wish they know what they r missing out on.

YPP seriously I find the bolded very counterfactual ... You really can't judge a whole lot with these few examples you witnessed... there always will be bad eggs.

Someone said gone are those days when father kid relationships are more prevalent .... So are you saying the new generation changed the whole trend ? ... I find that very hard to believe hence what @cc find hard to believe too and system has nothing to do with it... they have no say over anybody's decision on how to raise /bond with their kids.

That being said, I'm going to do visual survey on this topic ... I'm going to the second busiest mall in the world ( with enoumous kids rides and play area) and Naija boku for there.

chaircover: . . . but Uju this is what I dont understand

The "most" Nigerian men are the same breed who come over here and push pram and are all over their kids. On Saturday in the city cetre shopping mall, I see heaps of fathers and kids shopping and having meals in reataurants. I also see loads of daddys carrying their babies in a chest sling.

My Naija work colleagues take days off work to do things with their kids and when their kids are sick.

Do you think its the environment that is actually the cause of this?

I'm really in no position to compare because I've never lived in the UK . . But does the Nigerian 'Men are God's' mentality contribute to this? Yes!

The society expects this from them.

You need to see the dirty looks I get from my fellow women in church when my baby is throwing her usual tantrum and my husband is the one pacifying her and taking for short walk outside. The look at me like I'm a lazy and bad mum. when in actual fact, there's nothing I could have done that my husband can't do. If he prefers to do them, why should I bother . . . because I am a woman?

And I really don't blame them . . it is strange to see a man walking his screaming child outside to pet her . . it's a woman's job!

Nigerians believe it's a woman's responsibility to handle the kids, and that my friend, is really sad. If Mummy is they only one they run to when they cry and the only one who pets them when they want to be held, then sooner or later, daddy's just going to be a figurehead!

I've had friends drop off their kids at my house for a few hours while they rush to the market to shop for the weekend. Meanwhile oga is probably 'resting' at home or at the bar hanging out with friends. It would have provided a perfect opportunity for him to relate with his kids after a probably busy week.

I understand the pressure Nigerian men have to face to provide for their families, but if those kids they are working so hard for turn out to be Abdul Mutallab's and Cynthia's in the future, then it would have all been for nothing!

We, Nigerins, need to change our mindset, simple!

ileobatojo:

Ok. Ignored.

I kid, I kid

Back to topic!

Yes, the natural tendency is for the bulk of the child rearing to be deferred to the woman which may or may not lead to better bonds between the children and their mother (depending on parenting style). I do have believe that this generation is better though. For those fathers that aren't spending time with their children, to me the main reasons are laziness or immaturity. Or both. Hidden under the cover of culture.

Maybe this generation is better . . . But we are still a loooong way from getting there.

We can't ignore the change modernization and civilization is bringing now. Those days I wasn't allowed to go out except for school so meeting guys were absolutely impossible. Now with just a click of her keyboard, a child can meet and rendezvous with the world most perverted rapist.

The need for change is becoming very very important. We need to change the status quo, and soon. It's time to stop leaving it to over stressed/over worked mothers. Because we can't also ignore the present trend of working mothers, which wasn't there in the past.

A woman who has to keep a full time job and still take care of the kids have little time left to pay attention to what really counts. Like who his friends are, what he does after school, what websites he loves visiting e.t.c.

Now, more than ever, we need the fathers!

For those who aren't there for their kids, it may not be immaturity like you think. The just don't know any better. The women assume 100% responsibility and even shooo them when they try to help, just because they want to appear to be the perfect wife.

I actually feel sorry for these men, they are missing a lot. Nothing like spending the day with your kid to make all your troubles go away . . .

Ujujoan:

Maybe this generation is better . . . But we are still a loooong way from getting there.

We can't ignore the change modernization and civilization is bringing now. Those days I wasn't allowed to go out except for school so meeting guys were absolutely impossible. Now with just a click of her keyboard, a child can meet and rendezvous with the world most perverted rapist.

The need for change is becoming very very important. We need to change the status quo, and soon. It's time to stop leaving it to over stressed/over worked mothers. Because we can't also ignore the present trend of working mothers, which wasn't there in the past.

A woman who has to keep a full time job and still take care of the kids have little time left to pay attention to what really counts. Like who his friends are, what he does after school, what websites he loves visiting e.t.c.

Now, more than ever, we need the fathers!

So true Uju, so true!

And I completely disagree that stress is a valid excuse like a poster mentioned. Stress for all 20 something years the child lives with you that you can't find anytime to connect with them? No. It is not stress, it is a mindset problem. If people saw it as something they must do, as their personal responsibility, stress will never get in the way of that for any extended period of time. Sure, you may not be able to take them to the park every evening, but that doesn't mean you can't connect deeply with them within the opportunities you have to do so!

For those who aren't there for their kids, it may not be immaturity like you think. The just don't know any better. The women assume 100% responsibility and even shooo them when they try to help, just because they want to appear to be the perfect wife.

Definitely, women who have this mindset ingrained in them contribute to the problem.

Chillisauce:

Na the system cause am ...

They have no choice here.

Heheheh

Lol! Well this is true sha. No househelp or extended family member to pawn off the work to.

yellowpawpaw: @ nashville,stress no matter how will never make u an irresponsible father. Are the wives not passin tru the same?
Its just ego and orientation.

Spot on! And certainly not the stress of driving to and from work! Even if they have a mental breakdown, they must sha recover one day. How does this stress manage to last the child's entire life with no effort to rectify things?

I'm back...I see that my fans haters, jealousiers (and sometimes there is no difference between them )are all eagerly awaiting my comments. Sincerest apologies for not making an appearance late yesterday, I was ever so busy living a real - as opposed to a vicarious - family life, real experiences, that can be shared if I choose too.

So many to respond to so many to answer. So I'll free form.

I've been a lander for a while now, longer than most. I know of only a few that have been here longer, even more so if I limit it to my two regular stomping grounds, initially religion, but now mostly family.

It's hard not to build up "profiles" of posters, based either on what the reveal about themselves or the positions they take. Again, especially when this is concentrated, think 80/20, not everyone is equally prominent or prolific.

Further, like I suspect others do, I read more than I post and oft times follow threads without posting. A good example would be Serubawon' thread. I followed it from day one. I had concerns but Analytical and others were advising and I was sure they'd be sound counsel outside nl.

So following with a bit of reasoning and modicum of discernment brings insight. And of course some facts are clearly stated. Indeed, it's not that much harder to suss out people that are evasive, avoid certain topics, always adopt certain approaches or positions and studiously refuse to disclose anything. It only takes one post to gain insight.

So far example a few days ago Uju - whom I have never spoken to but am very much aware of - was pilloried shamelessly due to a personal fact she revealed a while back. Which I clearly remember. Later she actively discouraged a relationship between a sibling and a Yoruba boy, so the reasons for some of her comments - appropriate or not - are clear.

But there is nothing new here. There are 2 "older" Ujus who have dropped that exact same fact - one case in which I can even remember the name of the guy one of them dated.Indeed, the argy-bargy there is an exact replica of a feud that happened in earlier times. Is there anything new on nl?

Would I ever bring that up? not at all - and I regularly cross swords with one of them. But does that mean I won't refer to things I remember from peoples posting histories? If it's relevant to a serious point, you can bet on it. A more pertinent observation is the responses, especially by those close to the warring parties.

You see there is a lot of inconsistency here, particularly amongst the female posters, but again it's instructive. It's quite obvious that some of the women here place alliances ahead of truth and would rather be partisan than factual. It often leads to inconsistencies in their positions. It resulted in the whole cabal thing, which I watched with some amusement and it is still very much present today - albeit more fractured, but probably further reaching.

The men - and I speak for myself here - tend to be more stand alone and hold positions more consistently. I do need anyone to ride shotgun. I don't instinctively "like" or "GBAM" posts from my "cohorts". Why, because I believe I post truthfully and factually. And my worldview is consistently applied, neither is it self-derived. Can I be called out for my tone at times? possibly, but when it comes to fact or insight, I'm still waiting.

And that is what many simply can't deal with. Another point; there is not gender-bashing on this board as much as there is male-bashing. Lets be clear about that. On this thread alone, no one has mentioned the failings of naija mothers - or are they perfect? If the reverse thread had been started, there would have been howls of "your mother", "your sisters" - and in abusive tones. Here men simply stood up and said it's not true. The real truth is that were there are "stereotypically regressive norms" amongst men, women in the form of mothers/sisters have been equally culpable of inculcating and re-inforcing them by their actions or choices.

As for this thread, debrief clearly introduced a toxic element. I was reading from the off and didn't like it, but held off. When it was pointed out she accepted her error - on the face of it - only to backtrack when "the one with no provenance", entered to stir. It was a particularly odious move given the fact there had been agreement and generic as well as thread specific progress.

And to note, debrief was called out for this same thing barely a day previously. She rushed in to coruscate men without even reading properly. She was called out there also, she apologised. Then what? Jide rode in, doing pretty much what was done on this thread. Did I mention partisanship and alliances as opposed to facts and truth. Funnily enough debrief is often mistaken for a man !

If I can break myself away from bonding, I may be back here to respond to debriefs post.


TV

A classic lazy & Useless Man ( sorry can't find another word) will never change regardless any environment he finds himself... It isn't a crime , so whether they have help/ relative to ship workload onto is the least of his problems... they don't care.

And yes, stress plays a big role in this problem, exactly what Nashville explained bout road traffic etc

I don't think playing yoyo will interest me after 3hrs traffic fatigue... I can't even imagine how they do it.. Sad but true.

Nawaa for this topic o!
Madam Jide,I can never generalise.
I gave only one bad example. Goin further down u will c where I pointed out that his dad is d opposite.
If u want to do a survey,shopping mall is never ur sample space.
Come to naija,meet the roadside hussler,d ashawos,the child labourer and they will give u a good picture.
There was a thread here about daddys one time ago,while some were praising their dad,some regretd that such man sired them.

My late father from d little I heard about him dotted on us,but that didn't stop the children of our nebor to cringe anytime they heard their daddy's voice. This is the bitter truth. The way some men think that massaging their wives leg is beneath them is the same way such men behave.

If u live in naija,u r in a stress zone.whether rich or poor. Nobody will ever escape it. The way,u a rich man is held up in a traffic probably bein driven by ur driver inside an air cornditioned car is the same way a poor man will enter molue(u know the rest).
Part of those men(rich or poor) dots on their children,some don't.
So pls let's rule stress out.
Its holds no water.
Like I said, men like that r really missin out in bonding with their children which will reflect in their r/ship when they get older especially the male ones, not obligationary duties bc of culture as some of us do.

** Stammers** Mr.TV what did I do?

the plot thickens....

this land reminds me of high school,

the mean girls - just all lindsey lohan all the time

the show offs n the club girls - i don hammer

the efikos

the spirikoko

the mainstream -- roll with everyone

the prefects- whom everyone looks up to for advice

YPP I agree with you and reason why I mentioned 'Bad eggs' rather than paint large % black....that's why I denounced the bashing trend. And like Efe said, because I get along with some monikers doesn't stop me from disagreeing with their stance.

I have brothers and they spend time with their families and one on one time with their kids ....this thread is to compliment hands on Dad and same time proffer/ give ideas how time can be squeezed out from your busy daily lives... I really don't believe screensaver and pic displays is such a big deal .

Because people give you bad looks in church doesn't mean it happens in every church, I go to living spring ( winners) in Nigeria and I see a whole lot of 20-40+ dads tend to their kids and change diapers without any ridiculous looks. Maybe you need to.. ( let me stop jare)


We can't just judge a whole group with few bad eggs.

^^^^thanks for standing up for the naija males

we know there is room for improvement though...

biolabee: the plot thickens....

this land reminds me of high school,

the mean girls - just all lindsey lohan all the time

the show offs n the club girls - i don hammer

the efikos

the spirikoko

the mainstream -- roll with everyone

the prefects- whom everyone looks up to for advice

Abeg, come explain the bolded classifications properly!

Efikos? Spirikokos ??

Et al...

I swear to God this character called TV01 needs to take a chill pill. I just read his dissertation and still can't figure out what his point is Maybe my comprehension is on vacation today. Why do some folks have such an embellished opinion of themselves

Biola u no well o

Efemena_xy:


Abeg, come explain the bolded classifications properly!

Efikos? Spirikokos ??

Et al...

Efikos: ileobatojo , Efe, TV

Spirikokos: Bukatyne

Show off& club girls:

Mainstream: Dami, Naijababe

The perfects: one and only CC

Meanies:

Ayam going to church jare.. Zooom

^ Lord have mercy . Here I was thinking I am an 'efiko'

Madam I hail oo

I well ooo but Cabalism don dey spoil this section

naijababe: I swear to God this character called TV01 needs to take a chill pill. I just read his dissertation and still can't figure out what his point is Maybe my comprehension is on vacation today. Why do some folks have such an embellished opinion of themselves

Biola u no well o

chaircover:

Biola what do you mean by cabalism?

I want you to name the cabalites and I will show you 5 threads where the alleged cabalites you mention have different views

Lobatan! Thread officially derailed, we are back to the cabal shizzle!