tete7000:
Jesus said of the prophets, john the baptist is the greatest but in the Christian era, he is the least. Try and find out why he said so.

Maybe he knew Muhammad was coming

Logicboy03:


Scriptures......read my comment....the scriptures not the bible existed before the church.......thy had to exist before they were compiled



By the way, i am not a christian, i am an ex-catholic atheist

The scripture is the Word of God - Christ Himself. If you have ever been a catholic as you claimed then you will know He is ever present in the church- body, soul and divinity in the blessed sacrament. Your refusal to learn definitely took you out of the church. O ma se o, poor lost you.

dolly dolly: . This is saying it exactly d way it is. She got preggy mysteriously few weeks or days b4 her wedding. Yet she didn't abort it. Moral lesson; we should persevere n seek d face of God dat he would turn our downfalls,shortfalls n challenges into blessing.

Exactly!

The truth is that abortion is against God,God is not in support of it...it is murder!

God says, before u were even conceived he had determined what u would be, how much more wen u have been conceived. To God Life even starts before conception, let alone wen conception has taken place. Aborting a pregnacy means terminating Gods plan for the unborn baby. The funniest part is that those supporting abortion were born.

tete7000:
The scripture is the Word of God - Christ Himself. If you have ever been a catholic as you claimed then you will know He is ever present in the church- body, soul and divinity in the blessed sacrament. Your refusal to learn definitely took you out of the church. O ma se o, poor lost you.

Scripture is paper. Christ did not come to change the scripture. Christ himself is not the scripture.


Stop repeating what your lying cathecism teacher told you

babestell: The sad truth is that abortion is a controversial issue and in this age of people wanting to hear what pleases them, no sane pastor would spend so much time on a doctrine that may cost him his customers sorry congregation.
All of you talking about saving the mother's life, l hope you understand that it is just in 5% of pregnancies that will really/necessarily lead to this point. A lot of abortions are cosmetic or for family planning. Medical science is very advanced now and there are a lot of success stories of women carrying complicated pregnancies to term. As for the victim of rape or molestation.....very sad story indeed and I would not wish that on anyone, but the fact is that the foetus is a living being and aborting it would be like punishing Peter for the crimes of Paul, the problem is more of a societal one where people blame the victim instead of consoling her.
Adoption in Nigeria is WAR! Its a difficult and demoralising process, if you are not strong you will give up hope. Most motherless homes have a list of coupkes who are online hoping to get a baby, but approval from government is usually slow and unfortunately most people want babies below one year. There is thread on nairaland talking about couples experiences with IVF, I was so touched when I read through the 66 pages, people out there want babies and we are here supporting abortion.
The solution is for everyone to practice what they preach....sexual abstinence.......
Any church that teaches that a foetus is not human or alive until a certain age is a big fraud,

Babe! You make sense die! Nice one jare...

jodeer:
really hmmm.....u r saying she should have atleast killed two because u ve 4gotten dat lyf stats in d womb.....btw did d woman nd her husband not d fault, instead of doin family plannin de gave birth to more dan wat de cn take care of nd u tink d only soln is murder abi....guy relax nd reflect on ur wordz o cos as i de see u if u become presidnt u fit legalise kidnappin nd say na job

Lol. You no trust the guy at all...

Logicboy03:


Maybe he knew Muhammad was coming

Not only mohammed even buddha sef... rubbish..lol... If you understand that passage it means john the baptist was the greatest prophet born of a woman because he was the only prophet who saw Jesus among Moses, Elijah, Isaiah e.t.c on earth but the least among those in the kingdom of God was greater than him because as at the time he died Jesus had not died on the cross so he could not be saved yet by the blood of Jesus he was saved by faith and work as Moses, Elijah and other prophets were saved... So Jesus was trying to highlight how important those of us who were to be live in the post era of his death were important because now we could claim the kingdom of God through Jesus.

It's a matter of common sense, Abortion is a sin and should be made a criminal offense. the catholics who Protest about are in their rights to do so. Oga, If other churches don't protest, don't blame them, they are afraid of loosing members, The issue of Rape victim or Unwanted pregnancy has a solution, you simply give the baby up for adoption with a huge price tag on him and gain either way.... my cool advice is to use your sense!!!!!!

Abortion is a personal choice for a woman to control what she is willing and unwilling to do with her own body. It's not about what the church dictates, it's about personal freedom. Children of parents that don't want children to take care of usually abandon, or mistreat them. That's no life for a child.

Chrisbenogor:
Bros,
This is very simple common sense, aside from the fact that none of the crowd calling it murder bother to check if these babies have been thrown into canals or abandoned in motherless babies homes or even sold.

Lemme ask you then if a pregnancy would kill a woman, would you allow her carry it till the end still?
Do you think it is morally right to ask a woman who was raped by an armed robber to keep a child that would remind her of the trauma?

What is being discussed here is :the human life".

Irrespective of what your emotional condition might be whenever you see that child, that child deserves to live, whether your emotions are bruised or not.

A life comes before whichever emotion a person may harbour.

Besides, you are not obliged to keep a child you do not want. Just give it up for adoption.

That child's right to life is the priority.

Bandit C.:


What is being discussed here is :the human life".

Irrespective of what your emotional condition might be whenever you see that child, that child deserves to live, whether your emotions are bruised or not.

A life comes before whichever emotion a person may harbour.

Besides, you are not obliged to keep a child you do not want. Just give it up for adoption.

That child's right to life is the priority.

How many kids have you adopted? Your blood relatives adopted? I am sure it's zero.
The fetus is not a human being.

Ok I'm a firm believer in Christ. Already with 2 children in their young age (3 and 2) and I discover am pregnant. At first I was resolved to keep it, even though the father wanted nothing to do with his child. Until I started getting very ill, sharp pain in my stomach. The pregnancy was growing and causing internal bleeding due to a cyst on my ovary. I was so exhausted with running around with 2 small ones. Still even with prayer, I wasn't getting better. I had to stop working and was hospitalized. The abortion was offered and after much prayer and advice from pastor (who was against it) and parents (who were against it until they found out I was basically going to die if I kept the pregnancy, asked me to abort it). My kids must not be motherless in this very crucial time of life. I did it, and although I felt terrible none-the-less, I believe Godhas the grace to forgive and blessed me with in spite of my failings. I know that it was a very hard choice to make, but the babies who were already in my heart were my only factors. Yes my health and life meant a great deal, but the future of my babies was so important for me. How can you ask a mother to disregard the family she already has for a principle? Parents
will do anything to save their kids. That is all. Somethings aren't black and white, the world we live in is confused.

I have not known Living Churches for Protesting for any thing, Better call them Living Churches, Holy Ghost Churches or Bible believing Churches but not Protestant. Pentecostal is talking about Five or Fifty things.
Scripture is from the word Script(written work)
Bible is from the word Bibliography(History)
I only believe in the Gospel of JESUS christ.

vivalableue: Ok I'm a firm believer in Christ. Already with 2 children in their young age (3 and 2) and I discover am pregnant. At first I was resolved to keep it, even though the father wanted nothing to do with his child. Until I started getting very ill, sharp pain in my stomach. The pregnancy was growing and causing internal bleeding due to a cyst on my ovary. I was so exhausted with running around with 2 small ones. Still even with prayer, I wasn't getting better. I had to stop working and was hospitalized. The abortion was offered and after much prayer and advice from pastor (who was against it) and parents (who were against it until they found out I was basically going to die if I kept the pregnancy, asked me to abort it). My kids must not be motherless in this very crucial time of life. I did it, and although I felt terrible none-the-less, I believe Godhas the grace to forgive and blessed me with in spite of my failings. I know that it was a very hard choice to make, but the babies who were already in my heart were my only factors. Yes my health and life meant a great deal, but the future of my babies was so important for me. How can you ask a mother to disregard the family she already has for a principle? Parents
will do anything to save their kids. That is all. Somethings aren't black and white, the world we live in is confused.

How many women do you know that had to make this decision and compare it to those who do it for cosmetic reasons. A very minute few, even women that are hypertensive carry baby to term nowadays. Mordern medicine is really doing wonders, if you dont know ask your doctor, dont be surprised another doctor may have been willing to work with you to carry baby to term. Imagine a woman who has been trying to conceive for 8 years and then she does with this complication, such a woman may try everything to bring baby to term (parents will do anything to save their kids, your words). This story is very touching and sad but guess what if you still committed MURDER to save your life, for a worthy cause sha so in our human thinking we believe God will understand. But what of those aborting babies because they are female and they want a male child, or those aborting because they had unprotected sex or because they dont want more children or just to punish a guy

Chrisbenogor:
How many kids have you adopted? Your blood relatives adopted? I am sure it's zero.
The fetus is not a human being.

He doesn't need to adopt kids. Did he tell you he was looking for kids . BTW when people adopt in naija, they usually go to great lenghts to conceal it, so the true statistics is not readily available. Like all things naija, the proper framework for the process to help people is not there. You csn spend years trying to adopt.....paperwork alone is crazy. That is why pregnancy farms flourish. People need babies from birth not at 3 months or 3 years. Give this girls an option....please don't abort, hook them up with families that need babies, let there be a sort of arrangement, take the stigma off adoption. In my maternal family, 3 out of 5 siblings adopted:for various reasons sha. The 4th one is starting the process now. When the first aunty adopted she tried hiding it but after a while it came out, the kid is 18years now and wants to enter UNILAG to study maths like me . If his own biological mother had aborted him nko.

The Fetus is a human being. No matter how people try to distort the truth or deny it. The fetus is a human being albeit a weak and defenceless one who needs 9 months to mature into an independent functioning one.

Abortion is a sin. My church condemns it too. No governor or human being have the right to declare sin as righteousness.

Syncan: @ Chukwudi, I would've preferred you adjust the topic a little to read "Non-Catholic Churches" Instead, for the purpose of this thread, for this is a serious issue.



@ Pygru, you have simply brought it out to the limelight, now lets see who has a contrary view, which he/she thinks is inspired of God.For this is a thread meant for those who say they follow Christ.

its not meant for only xtians mate. It will interest u 2 know that islam (shariah law) supports termination of d foetus if it is confirmed by a trusted medical xpert that it will endanger d life of d mother. I think d problem with xtians on it is because d bible does not say anything on abortion, so every church's stand on this issue is based on d founders or elders opinion just like d issue of marrying more than 1 wife. B4 u comment on this, read and understand very well. It's a serious issue brotherz & sisters.

tete7000:
When people like you don't know what to say, you turn the argument upside down. How can what people use their freewill to do invalidate the truth the church teaches? Your response will be appreciated.

The essence of doctrine is to make christians comform to certain moral and spiritual standards necessary for their salvation. Likewise, the catholic church condemn abortion because they believe it constitute the act of shedding blood. If the church succeeds in condeming the act why the faithfuls do otherwise, is the essence of the doctrine not defeated? Will the young girls who die during abortion be saved by the mere fact that catholic doctrine rejects abortion? What i am saying is that the catholic church end in rejecting the act in principle while keeping some teachings (such as purgatory and penance ) which are antithetical to this doctrine. If a girl who commits an obortion knows she can still pray 14 hell marys and be forgiven or still go to heaven after spending some time in the purgatory, where is the deterrance? The catholic church rejects the act in doctrine while living the faithfuls to their 'freewill' or even encouraging them indirectly. I hope i have explained what i mean by saying " they pretend a lot"

Adek15:
its not meant for only xtians mate. It will interest u 2 know that islam (shariah law) supports termination of d foetus if it is confirmed by a trusted medical xpert that it will endanger d life of d mother. I think d problem with xtians on it is because d bible does not say anything on abortion, so every church's stand on this issue is based on d founders or elders opinion just like d issue of marrying more than 1 wife. B4 u comment on this, read and understand very well. It's a serious issue brotherz & sisters.

I hope we are reading the same thread, what is the title again?

Noneroone:
The essence of doctrine is to make christians comform to certain moral and spiritual standards necessary for their salvation. Likewise, the catholic church condemn abortion because they believe it constitute the act of shedding blood. If the church succeeds in condeming the act why the faithfuls do otherwise, is the essence of the doctrine not defeated? Will the young girls who die during abortion be saved by the mere fact that catholic doctrine rejects abortion? What i am saying is that the catholic church end in rejecting the act in principle while keeping some teachings (such as purgatory and penance ) which are antithetical to this doctrine. If a girl who commits an obortion knows she can still pray 14 hell marys and be forgiven or still go to heaven after spending some time in the purgatory, where is the deterrance? The catholic church rejects the act in doctrine while living the faithfuls to their 'freewill' or even encouraging them indirectly. I hope i have explained what i mean by saying " they pretend a lot"

Please take note and say this prayer often "Lord teach me to keep my mouth shut, till I know what I am talking about". It will do you a lot of good.

are u so called christians telling us to keep abormination pregnancy forced to any of our sisters by a bloody criminal in d name of rape,if it is not her wish to keep d baby,? or do u people want us to keep any pregnancy that endangers any of our sisters life?, NO problem any body who dont support shouled get ready any time this type of pregnancy is found u just go to hospital and let the baby be transferred into ur own body.

^ please where is the ROLMAO icon when u need it

babestell:
He doesn't need to adopt kids. Did he tell you he was looking for kids . BTW when people adopt in naija, they usually go to great lenghts to conceal it, so the true statistics is not readily available. Like all things naija, the proper framework for the process to help people is not there. You csn spend years trying to adopt.....paperwork alone is crazy. That is why pregnancy farms flourish. People need babies from birth not at 3 months or 3 years. Give this girls an option....please don't abort, hook them up with families that need babies, let there be a sort of arrangement, take the stigma off adoption. In my maternal family, 3 out of 5 siblings adopted:for various reasons sha. The 4th one is starting the process now. When the first aunty adopted she tried hiding it but after a while it came out, the kid is 18years now and wants to enter UNILAG to study maths like me . If his own biological mother had aborted him nko.

The Fetus is a human being. No matter how people try to distort the truth or deny it. The fetus is a human being albeit a weak and defenceless one who needs 9 months to mature into an independent functioning one.

Let us keep emotions aside madam,
In your previous post you said God "understood" that she "murdered" the child.
Now let us your look at your analogy, you are saying murder is right under certain circumstances. If we go by what you are saying the fetus is a human being and innocent one at that, the woman killed a human being albeit to save herself. It is still MURDER no matter how much you paint it. If you say it is permissible under "certain" circumstances then certainly if a woman feels she cannot take care of the child she should be given the option of terminating the pregnancy.

My position however is different
A fetus is not a human being, all innocent human beings deserve to live. There is no reason whatsoever to kill a human being unless he or she has committed a crime which is punishable by death according to the laws of the land. A fetus however does not qualify as a human being because it is biologically still dependent on another human being to become fully independent. There has to be a line... a line where all of us christian muslim budhist traditional worshippers atheists all agree and that is when the child is born. At that point it does not matter if the child was a result of rape, incest, whatever it is that child is now a human being and ready to be accorded all the protection a human being should have.

chukwudi44: Most times the catholic church has been left to become the only vocal voice condemning abortion.Just recemntly Governor Rochas asssented a bill making some categories of abortion legal.I was taken aback by comments some christians who applauded the decision.In view of my understanding of the scriptures,abortion is murder and should not be encouraged.

I just want to know if abortion is alowed on the doctrine of most protestant churches or islam or is it just that these nairalanders just took the position just to spite the catholic church.

https://www.nairaland.com/1414763/okorocha-catholic-doctors-war-over

Its physcopants like you, that is holding nigeria back! Are u saying people can't have personal opinion on issues of social importance, must it be attributed to religion or a paticular faith! Its people like you, that are the 1st to judge teenage mothers. I don't support abortion, not because am a christian but because I don't think its right!

I can tell you we had the same problem when the goverment legalise abortion.

I remember my mother she told me that it was good because, in the days when it was illegal, rich woman had no problem because when you had the money you could go to a private hospital, but poor woman go to speacial woman who help them but the problem was that many woman die or they could never have a child again.

We didnot have more abortion now since it was legalised, and every woman who want to make it must go before to a special person who speak with her and they show that they get help from the goverment also when they are a single mother.

It is only that every woman can make it if she is rich or not.

is all abortion killing of innocent lifes?what will u say of development of foetus at the Fallopian tupe?

Chrisbenogor:
Let us keep emotions aside madam,
In your previous post you said God "understood" that she "murdered" the child.
Now let us your look at your analogy, you are saying murder is right under certain circumstances. If we go by what you are saying the fetus is a human being and innocent one at that, the woman killed a human being albeit to save herself. It is still MURDER no matter how much you paint it. If you say it is permissible under "certain" circumstances then certainly if a woman feels she cannot take care of the child she should be given the option of terminating the pregnancy.

My apologies if my english was misleading I said "in our human thinking we think God will understand" thats how we justify the action of killing a child to save the mother. I personally dont agree with that. Abortion is cold blooded murder no matter the reason, as a christian I believe God will judge us all on the last day based on our actions during our lifetime. Only then will we know if HE understands. A woman "feels" then she aborts a living thing, people can feel a lot of ways and most of them will not be noble feelings.

My position however is different
A fetus is not a human being, all innocent human beings deserve to live. There is no reason whatsoever to kill a human being unless he or she has committed a crime which is punishable by death according to the laws of the land. A fetus however does not qualify as a human being because it is biologically still dependent on another human being to become fully independent. There has to be a line... a line where all of us christian muslim budhist traditional worshippers atheists all agree and that is when the child is born. At that point it does not matter if the child was a result of rape, incest, whatever it is that child is now a human being and ready to be accorded all the protection a human being should have.

I disagree with you here, a fetus is a living creature, a being with a soul and spirit, also i dont think any human being is truly independent from others just that the degree matters. In the case of babies its to a very large extent and thats how God made it. There are invalids and old and sick people out there who are vety dependent on others, when we are born we simply trade biological dependency for material, nutritional, financial etc dependency......all na dependency
As for the line........ There are cases of 7 month abortion where labour was induced, the lady birthed a premature child but the baby was killed, the doctors argument is that since the child was born as part of an abortion procedure, they were still right.. mean while with an incubator such a baby would have survived. People will cross that line and one day you will find them cultivating fetuses and harvesting them for stem cells because a certain vague line has not been crossed. The only line I would suggest is at conception

nanz: is all abortion killing of innocent lifes?what will u say of development of foetus at the Fallopian tupe?

Emmm the child is still innocent. The child did not wilfully choose to develop in the fallopian tubes to kill its mom

babestell:

My apologies if my english was misleading I said "in our human thinking we think God will understand" thats how we justify the action of killing a child to save the mother. I personally dont agree with that. Abortion is cold blooded murder no matter the reason, as a christian I believe God will judge us all on the last day based on our actions during our lifetime. Only then will we know if HE understands. A woman "feels" then she aborts a living thing, people can feel a lot of ways and most of them will not be noble feelings.

Madam,
You have to think carefully about what your are saying, like "nanz" just asked you when a fetus is developing in the fallopian tube that is a potential killer there for the mother. So if you know a woman who has this problem I take it from what you are saying you would never advise that the pregnancy be terminated even when the doctor has told you it would kill the woman. If you were in such a position such as to make this decision for the woman and you choose to leave things as they are you have effectively signed the death warrant of the mother. Murder is murder, is the fetus "life" more important than the life of the woman? My dear you are still in a conundrum either ways you have sanctioned that something should be terminated
- The life of the woman which every party would agree is a human being.
- The pregnancy is terminated.
Choice is yours....

I disagree with you here, a fetus is a living creature, a being with a soul and spirit, also i dont think any human being is truly independent from others just that the degree matters. In the case of babies its to a very large extent and thats how God made it. There are invalids and old and sick people out there who are vety dependent on others, when we are born we simply trade biological dependency for material, nutritional, financial etc dependency......all na dependency
As for the line........ There are cases of 7 month abortion where labour was induced, the lady birthed a premature child but the baby was killed, the doctors argument is that since the child was born as part of an abortion procedure, they were still right.. mean while with an incubator such a baby would have survived. People will cross that line and one day you will find them cultivating fetuses and harvesting them for stem cells because a certain vague line has not been crossed. The only line I would suggest is at conception

First of soul, spirit, all that is just conjecture, I can categorically tell you that a born baby is a human being and deserves a chance to live . I am sure you agree with that as well, same and every other person in this debate. Once a baby is born and is killed we all agree its murder. What we all cannot agree however is the intangible concepts of soul and spirit which differs in degrees as we go from religion to religion and from person to person.
By all means if you as a lady see your daughter traumatized after being molested viciously and you ask her to keep the child because you want to sound politically correct then by all means fine, it should however remain your opinion. The girl has a right to decide if she wants to keep a trophy for her trauma or not that is what this law is all about, my choice to decide if I want to "sin".

Even from a religious point of view is there anywhere whatsoever that your holy book says terminating a pregnancy is a sin? Maybe they did not know it was possible then.....still though it is a very grey area and if you are quoting one part of the ten commandments for me, what happened to the others that you have abandoned?
It shocks me how you all can excuse the killing of innocent women and children in the bible by Moses and come here to say abortion is evil. Talk about double standards.

Oluwalala:

Its physcopants like you, that is holding nigeria back! Are u saying people can't have personal opinion on issues of social importance, must it be attributed to religion or a paticular faith! Its people like you, that are the 1st to judge teenage mothers. I don't support abortion, not because am a christian but because I don't think its right!

Please don't be angry sir that he didn't allow leeway for your views. I think he was refering to organised religion not individual feelings when he asked the question. Chukwudi44 is not a psycho, he is just a fervent devout catholic who loces the Lord and his Church.

Well done