Rhemmymatician:
New, never before been concieved, at least not to the knowledge of the subject....I'm no Oxford or Chambers, but I'm sure that covers it
Thanks for ur extensive answer to my questions, perhaps I saw ur post as an indirect attack on me and was subjective in my post .

That a question is not original does not render it an invalid question, or makes the question any weaker, or any more unnecessary. E.g. Examining body asks questions over and over again, does that make the questions(exam) any less?

We know matters of life differ from academic matter in more ways than one. Academically, we have 'recycled' knowledge.. My younger brother used a textbook of mine 5 years after I had cleared that class.

That being said, I've been a regular here and I've seen a lot, a whole lot of these questions being repeated, hence my use of the word 'original'... Most of them have been discussed broadly on this forum.

Anyways, make we no derail thread..

Uyi Iredia:

At least you called it science. I must say though I am not as impressed with science as I once was, for one like all aspects of humanity it depends on contradictions, two, certain concepts eg energy are toyed with in it and bias definitely plays a role which truth scienctists naively deny.

Science doesn't care about impressing you, it isn't there to impress anyone or foster your beliefs.

Okay onetrack, amanfrommars, logicboy. You guys don't believe in the existence of a God. Please can I ask why? Surely there'd be a tangible reason for your stand.

onetrack:

1. The Giraffes do have evolutionary ancestors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giraffidae
2. Just because they have not yet explained it does not mean that there is not a perfectly good scientific reason. It would be a huge mistake to say that just because scientists have not explained everything, god must be the cause of all things not yet explained. That has been shown to be rubbish countless times in the past.
3. Not a coincidence, since all forms of life have a common ancestor. Just like saying what a coincidence it is that a married couple's parents all live in the same town! Amazing!
4. It is not finely positioned, it is randomly positioned. This 'one degree' business, whatever that means, has no truth to it. Had the earth been a little closer or further away, life could still have evolved and taken a different direction than today.
5. No coincidence either. There are so many molecules in the environment that some are bound to help living things and some are bound to be harmful. Some of these molecules, by coincidence, are likely to be found in plants.
6. Some species have essentially one gender or three. If humans had three genders then you might be wondering why there are three instead of two and asking us to explain that amazing fact. P*nises and vaginas evolved as an adaptation to environmental pressures to maximize reproduction.


PS. I cannot believe that nairaland censors the word p*nis. It's a scientific term, not a vulgarity!

Seriously Shaking My Head. In any case, evolution isn't dying anytime soon despite what detractors say, but opponents can better articulate their case, focus more on doing research, teaching kids the arguments from both sides than simply engaging in Darwinian bashing. Hopefully, over time the castle on a cloud thet the modern evolutionary theory is will fall.

ifeness:

You mean the bible made reference to only one god? Sorry you are wrong! All of them were merged together at some point. The atrocities of the god of the bible was enough to sentence him to death by hanging. Same applies to most pastors stealing money from the poor.

My point is,since you can never prove the existence of ur gods,pls keep quiet!

I am prayin for you.

aManFromMars:


Science doesn't care about impressing you, it isn't there to impress anyone or foster your beliefs.

Then you know little about science. The first impression of a theory matters and the famous phrase ' . . . evolution made me an intellectually-fulfilled atheist' is all too popular. That you ignore that scientific theories have either been bashed because of implications or influence and are influenced by people's beliefs is pitiable.

Rhemmymatician: Okay onetrack, amanfrommars, logicboy. You guys don't believe in the existence of a God. Please can I ask why? Surely there'd be a tangible reason for your stand.

Religious gods: Quite clearly ludicrous, a quick read through the holy books should confirm that.

All other gods are ideas. I may subscribe to the idea of an impersonal God, maybe some gemstone somewhere in Urubaba that radiates energy and gives life to the universe.
What I don't subscribe to is a god that is here to satisfy our whims and seeks a relationship blah blah blah...

So in a nutshell, lack of evidence.

What's your definition of God?

Uyi Iredia:

Then you know little about science. The first impression of a theory matters and the famous phrase ' . . . evolution made me an intellectually-fulfilled atheist' is all too popular. That you ignore that scientific theories have either been bashed because of implications or influence and are influenced by people's beliefs is pitiable.

No man, you didn't grasp my post.

Uyi Iredia:

Then you know little about science. The first impression of a theory matters and the famous phrase ' . . . evolution made me an intellectually-fulfilled atheist' is all too popular. That you ignore that scientific theories have either been bashed because of implications or influence and are influenced by people's beliefs is pitiable.

People do grasp at scientific facts just to sustain their beliefs or non-beliefs.

imhotep: These proofs of the existence of God take the form of philosophical
arguments:



1. The argument of the unmoved mover (ex motu).
* Some things are moved.
* Everything that is moved is moved by a mover.
* An infinite regress of movers is impossible.
* Therefore, there is an unmoved mover from whom all motion
proceeds.
* This mover is what we call God.



2. The argument of the first cause (ex causa).
* Some things are caused.
* Everything that is caused is caused by something else.
* An infinite regress of causation is impossible.
* Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause of all caused things.
* This causer is what we call God.



3. The argument of contingency (ex contingentia).
* Many things in the universe may either exist or not exist. Such
things are called contingent beings.
* It is impossible for everything in the universe to be contingent, as
something can't come of nothing, and if traced back eventually
there must have been one thing from which all others have
occurred.
* Therefore, there must be a necessary being whose existence is not
contingent on any other being(s).
* This being is what we call God.



4. The argument of degree (ex gradu).
* Various perfections may be found in varying degrees throughout
the universe.
* These degrees of perfections assume the existence of the
perfections themselves.
* The pinnacle of perfection, from which lesser degrees of perfection
derive, is what we call God.


5. The argument of "design" (ex fine).
* All natural bodies in the world act for ends.
* These objects are in themselves unintelligent.
* To act for ends is characteristic of intelligence.
* Therefore, there exists an intelligent being which guides all natural
bodies to their ends.
* This being we call God.

Culled from this thread

I'll add mine.

6. The argument of consciousness (ex conscientia)

* Matter lacks consciousness
* Certain configurations of matter exhibit consciousness
* The action of matter within such configurations have no
consciousness and beg the question of consciousness.
* We infer a non-contingent, immaterial conscious being called God
from which consciousness comes.

aManFromMars:

Religious gods: Quite clearly ludicrous, a quick read through the holy books should confirm that.

All other gods are ideas. I may subscribe to the idea of an impersonal God, maybe some gemstone somewhere in Urubaba that radiates energy and gives life to the universe.
What I don't subscribe to is a god that is here to satisfy our whims and seeks a relationship blah blah blah...

So in a nutshell, lack of evidence.

What's your definition of God?

God is the creator, our maker, omnipotent, omniscient(I'm trying not to go to biblical on the definition to minimize bias)

Where do you find the evidence you seek?
How do you walk in the desert and say there are no fishes. U don't believe there is anything called a fish. How? But Fishes are based in the water, if u want to see it manifest go to the water. Or do you expect a fish to come strolling in the desert? So also God is spirit. Go in the spirit if you want to see him manifest

aManFromMars:

Religious gods: Quite clearly ludicrous, a quick read through the holy books should confirm that.

All other gods are ideas. I may subscribe to the idea of an impersonal God, maybe some gemstone somewhere in Urubaba that radiates energy and gives life to the universe.
What I don't subscribe to is a god that is here to satisfy our whims and seeks a relationship blah blah blah...

So in a nutshell, lack of evidence.

What's your definition of God?

ev·i·dence  (v-dns)
n.
1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis.

2. Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face.

3. Law The documentary or oral statements and the material objects admissible as testimony in a court of law.
tr.v. ev·i·denced, ev·i·denc·ing, ev·i·denc·es
1. To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.
2. To support by testimony; attest.


Idiom:
in evidence
1. Plainly visible; to be seen: It was early, and few pedestrians were in evidence on the city streets.
2. Law As legal evidence: submitted the photograph in evidence.

One thing is clear from the definition of evidence, and the world I emboldened, evidence involves arbitration on physical data or arguments

2Pet3:14-17:

The Message
14-16 So, my dear friends, since this is what you have to look forward to, do your very best to be found living at your best, in purity and peace. Interpret our Master’s patient restraint for what it is: salvation. Our good brother Paul, who was given much wisdom in these matters, refers to this in all his letters, and has written you essentially the same thing. Some things Paul writes are difficult to understand. Irresponsible people who don’t know what they are talking about twist them every which way. They do it to the rest of the Scriptures, too, destroying themselves as they do it.
17 But you, friends, are well-warned. Be on guard lest you lose your footing and get swept off your feet by these lawless and loose-talking teachers.

New Living Translation
14 And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.

15 And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him— 16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
Peter’s Final Words

17 I am warning you ahead of time, dear friends. Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.


Amplified Bible
14 So, beloved, since you are expecting these things, be eager to be found by Him [at His coming] without spot or blemish and at peace [in serene confidence, [d]free from fears and agitating passions and moral conflicts].

15 And consider that the long-suffering of our Lord [[e]His slowness in avenging wrongs and judging the world] is salvation ([f]that which is conducive to the soul’s safety), even as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the spiritual insight given him,

16 Speaking of this as he does in all of his letters. There are some things in those [epistles of Paul] that are difficult to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist and misconstrue to their own [g]utter destruction, just as [they distort and misinterpret] the rest of the Scriptures.

17 Let me warn you therefore, beloved, that knowing these things beforehand, you should be on your guard, lest you be carried away by the error of lawless and wicked [persons and] fall from your own [present] firm condition [your own steadfastness of mind].

New King James Version
14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

Those that are arguing has got no time. If you are ready to learn the truth of the word of God, you have to be receptive... How do you want to listen when you have decided not to listen.

Matthew13:10-17:

The Message
10 The disciples came up and asked, “Why do you tell stories?”

11-15 He replied, “You’ve been given insight into God’s kingdom. You know how it works. Not everybody has this gift, this insight; it hasn’t been given to them. Whenever someone has a ready heart for this, the insights and understandings flow freely. But if there is no readiness, any trace of receptivity soon disappears. That’s why I tell stories: to create readiness, to nudge the people toward receptive insight. In their present state they can stare till doomsday and not see it, listen till they’re blue in the face and not get it. I don’t want Isaiah’s forecast repeated all over again:

Your ears are open but you don’t hear a thing.
Your eyes are awake but you don’t see a thing.
The people are blockheads!
They stick their fingers in their ears
so they won’t have to listen;
They screw their eyes shut
so they won’t have to look,
so they won’t have to deal with me face-to-face
and let me heal them.

16-17 “But you have God-blessed eyes—eyes that see! And God-blessed ears—ears that hear! A lot of people, prophets and humble believers among them, would have given anything to see what you are seeing, to hear what you are hearing, but never had the chance.

New Living Translation
10 His disciples came and asked him, “Why do you use parables when you talk to the people?”

11 He replied, “You are permitted to understand the secrets[a] of the Kingdom of Heaven, but others are not. 12 To those who listen to my teaching, more understanding will be given, and they will have an abundance of knowledge. But for those who are not listening, even what little understanding they have will be taken away from them. 13 That is why I use these parables,

For they look, but they don’t really see.
They hear, but they don’t really listen or understand.

14 This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says,

‘When you hear what I say,
you will not understand.
When you see what I do,
you will not comprehend.
15 For the hearts of these people are hardened,
and their ears cannot hear,
and they have closed their eyes—
so their eyes cannot see,
and their ears cannot hear,
and their hearts cannot understand,
and they cannot turn to me
and let me heal them.’

16 “But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17 I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, but they didn’t see it. And they longed to hear what you hear, but they didn’t hear it.

Amplified Bible
10 Then the disciples came to Him and said, Why do You speak to them in parables?

11 And He replied to them, To you it has been given to know the secrets and mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

12 For whoever has [spiritual knowledge], to him will more be given and he will [c]be furnished richly so that he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away.

13 This is the reason that I speak to them in parables: because [d]having the power of seeing, they do not see; and [e]having the power of hearing, they do not hear, nor do they grasp and understand.

14 In them indeed is [f]the process of fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah, which says: You shall indeed hear and hear but never grasp and understand; and you shall indeed look and look but never see and perceive.

15 For this nation’s heart has grown gross (fat and dull), and their ears heavy and difficult of hearing, and their eyes they have tightly closed, lest they see and perceive with their eyes, and hear and comprehend the sense with their ears, and grasp and understand with their heart, and turn and I should heal them.

16 But blessed (happy, fortunate, and [g]to be envied) are your eyes because they do see, and your ears because they do hear.

17 Truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men [men who were upright and in right standing with God] yearned to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

New King James Version
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should[a] heal them.’[b]

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

That passage speaks for himself as the word of God is life, so it will give you life is you want life.

Uyi Iredia:

At least you called it science. I must say though I am not as impressed with science as I once was, for one like all aspects of humanity it depends on contradictions, two, certain concepts eg energy are toyed with in it and bias definitely plays a role which truth scienctists naively deny.

I know, science doesnt impress you because it doesnt support your notion of God.

Ignorant people cower from knowledge

Logicboy03:

I know, science doesnt impress you because it doesnt support your notion of God.

Ignorant people cower from knowledge

Actually, that's part reason. It's more of the materialism pervasive in it and absurd ideas which are simoly validated because experts know the maths and studied it. One such idea is that space expands: that is logically and physically impossible except in the delusions of mainstream physicists.

Uyi Iredia:

God, by definition, isn't physical so he is unprovable as such. In the event you witness what you ask, I'm pretty sure your bias will be to be skeptical of or adequately explain with strict reference to the physical laws of Nature. BTW, that would make you guilty of the anthropormorphusm you accuse the atheist of. I will provide a set of truthful arguments by which God's extancy is validly inferred.

By whose definition is God spiritual? Let us be concrete here please! God of the bible was physical,spirits do not make request for animal sacrifices,Gen3:8 made us understand that God literally walked in the garden,God also landed on mount Sinai with a rocket-like sound and heavy smoke!....please do not tell me that is spiritual,unless you wanna admit your god is an alien. Otherwise you haven't proven the existence of your God.

Uyi Iredia:

Actually, that's part reason. It's more of the materialism pervasive in it and absurd ideas which are simoly validated because experts know the maths and studied it. One such idea is that space expands: that is logically and physically impossible except in the delusions of mainstream physicists.

lol........if you dont like materialism, go and carry a ruler and measure the length of an invisible spirit.

Mtchew

Rhemmymatician: Okay onetrack, amanfrommars, logicboy. You guys don't believe in the existence of a God. Please can I ask why? Surely there'd be a tangible reason for your stand.

Simple, no evidence for God!

ledafaze:

Those that are arguing has got no time. If you are ready to learn the truth of the word of God, you have to be receptive... How do you want to listen when you have decided not to listen.



That passage speaks for himself as the word of God is life, so it will give you life is you want life.

To the best of my knowledge so far,the words of your god is filled with ignorance and confusion.

Logicboy03:



Simple, no evidence for God!

Where do you find the evidence you seek?
How do you walk in the desert and say there are no fishes. U don't believe there is anything called a fish. How? But Fishes are based in the water, if u want to see it manifest go to the water. Or do you expect a fish to come strolling in the desert? So also God is spirit. Go in the spirit if you want to see him manifes

Uyi Iredia:

ev·i·dence  (v-dns)
n.
1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis.

2. Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face.

3. Law The documentary or oral statements and the material objects admissible as testimony in a court of law.
tr.v. ev·i·denced, ev·i·denc·ing, ev·i·denc·es
1. To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.
2. To support by testimony; attest.


Idiom:
in evidence
1. Plainly visible; to be seen: It was early, and few pedestrians were in evidence on the city streets.
2. Law As legal evidence: submitted the photograph in evidence.

One thing is clear from the definition of evidence, and the world I emboldened, evidence involves arbitration on physical data or arguments

explain this then:

Ge 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. {aprons: or, things to gird
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. {cool: Heb. wind}

9 ¶ And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

Uyi, any chance you'll go back to Christianity?

Logicboy03:


lol........if you dont like materialism, go and carry a ruler and measure the length of an invisible spirit.

Mtchew

Is measurement or length a material thing or an immaterial concept, if true, ifealism holds.

aManFromMars: Uyi, any chance you'll go back to Christianity?

He is dull enough.....

.....what a waste of my atheist preaching to him.

aManFromMars: Uyi, any chance you'll go back to Christianity?

There is, a 35% chance is my guesstimate.

Uyi Iredia:

Is measurement or length a material thing or an immaterial concept, if true, ifealism holds.

Your point, sir?

Logicboy03:


Your point, sir?

That the concepts undergirding materialism is itself immaterial. An irony.

Uyi Iredia:

There is, a 35% chance is my guesstimate.

Why not Islam or Benin traditional religion? I hear say una 'jazz' strong.. at least, people dey fear that one pass pass Jesus jazz..

To answer the question, You don't proove anything. They already know.

Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God..."
How can one argue with such? A man in denial.

Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last".
God was there before the "big bang" and will be there when it all goes away.

Some call Him energy, nature, force, higher being or life. We call Him God, deal with it.
He exists, though you call Him different names. EOD

PS: I called no one a fool. The bible did.
You can argue that with King David.

This thread and many others of this nature has only served to prove that FP is not one for intellectual arguments. Too many nonsense aplenty.

Una bye bye!

aManFromMars:

Why not Islam or Benin traditional religion? I hear say una 'jazz' strong.. at least, people dey fear that one pass pass Jesus jazz..

Islam is too strict. I'm not up for sitting for 5 hours, memorizing the Koran, learning Arabic etc. Funny enough, I professed paganism, on instruction from my Dad, as a young lad between 3-7. As for the jazz, me sef don hear, I never see. In the end, despite my inquiry into other religions, my sentiments lie with Christianity since my moulding years as a teen were like that, not to mention the advantages of community of Christians I have tasted of and seen first-hand. Anytime from now, I should start my re-appraisal of the Bible.

Mr Troll: This thread and many others of this nature has only served to prove that FP is not one for intellectual arguments. Too many nonsense aplenty.

Una bye bye!

I don't know you for intellectual arguments.