SeaSalt:


What is the heresy? The Word of God?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And you now demote Him to an angel called Michael?

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

So ask you:
#1. Is Michael God?
#2. Jesus NEVER used anything else in His defeat of Satan, why did Michael have to use the Blood of the Lamb?
#3. Are you sure Michael is holding all things together by the word of His power?
#4. So because the description of angels resemble that of Jesus, it makes Michael Jesus - What about Moses face shinning like the Sun - Is Moses also Jesus Christ?
#5. So an angel died/shed his blood for all humanity?

u dont know anything, read from page 1-16 to see 4 urself. Michael is Jesus Christ, u cant change it. The Truth stands.

SeaSalt:

You're so so heretical.

Jesus is not God Almighty?

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

If you say this is not the same God, then you are claiming TWO Gods - and that is a complete heresy!

Jesus Christ is God Almighty!

There is only one God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega. His name is Yahweh, also pronounced Jehovah. In some bibles, that name ( Yahweh or Jehovah) is replaced with "LORD" or "Lord" following a dubious man-made tradition. This can create confusion where Lord is used for Jesus. In any case Rev 1:8 refers to Yahweh. Earlier verse 7 refers to Christ.

Again, no, Jesus is not God Almighty. Whatever power Jesus has is given to him by God, and he is not equal to God, clear from 1 Corinthians 15:27,28. - "For he “has put everything under his feet.”Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all".

And also John 14:28 - " “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

philfearon:
"Mathew 26vs53:'do you think that i cannot appeal to my father,and he will at once send me more than twelve Legions of angels?"
....Now what do u make of that? The whole times that Archangel Michael was mentioned in the bible,he was alwaz Battling...Now,doesnt it occur to u that he(Arch-angel Michael) is one of these Angels that God will send to protect his son,being the Chief Warrior angel?

"Daniel 10vs13:'The Prince of the kingdom of Persia Withstood me twenty-one days;but Michael,ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES came to help me,so i left him there with the Prince of the Kingdom of Persia"
Hope u saw that he is not the Only Chief Prince as u lay claim to?
..
"With an Archangels Call or Voice" does not mean "In an Archangels voice"...Dont u understand simple English? It simply Means an Archangel will herald His coming with a Loud Roaring like that Of a Lion....
"and with the sound of the trumpet of God",which means another angel Will Sound the trumpet too,heralding the coming of Christ...Whats so hard to undastand in this?
..

ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES MEANS ONE OF THE "ARCHANGELS"? You are very wrong Jesus was called the prince of peace, a prince is one who will likely be crowned a king, chief prince does not mean chief of the angels, ok? One of the chief princes means one of the chief princes and not one of the archangels. Only angel Michael is called "The archangel" don't twist the word of God. Jesus descending with the trumpet of God signifies the authority he gets from His Father to resurrect the dead, commanding with the voice of the archangel also is the high position that His Father exalted him to, Jesus was created by the Almighty God, there is no way creation will be equal to the creator, creator will always be superior. That is why God resurrected Jesus, he did not ressurect himself, God sent him to earth, he did not send himself, he never did anything of his own initiative, only the things God tells him he does. Meditate on God's word.

CanadaCars: ARE YOU IMPLYING THAT ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES MEANS ONE OF THE "ARCHANGELS"? You are very wrong Jesus was called the prince of peace, a prince is one who will likely be crowned a king, chief prince does not mean chief of the angels, ok? One of the chief princes means one of the chief princes and not one of the archangels. Only angel Michael is called "The archangel" commanding with the voice of the archangel also is the high position that His Father exalted him to

I left this thread after Obadiah777 agreed that Jesus Christ is his Personal Lord and Saviour ,But i had to come back on seeing u quote me! Can someone Look at What Somebody's brain yielded!! I cant stop Laughing at Your ignorance bro/sis.......
Remember this,The word Archangel is used in the new Testament,while "One of The Chief Prince's" was used in The Old Testament....stop cönfusing urself..
..
@colored,so you are implying that there were many other Prince's lining up to take the role of Jesus as Savior and King,and son of God,and to inherit the fathers Inheritance? Smh!U r shallow minded lol!
..
I dont want to comment on the last one,i will leave u to correct urself..How dare u say That Jesus Christ was exalted to the Post of an archangel? na wa o! Obadiah777,see what your kingdom folk is saying? You guys will never cease amazing me with your erroneous scriptures and doctrines! Seriously,how confused can you not be? GOD FORBID...May God help u people!

philfearon:
I left this thread after Obadiah777 agreed that Jesus Christ is his Personal Lord and Saviour ,But i had to come back on seeing u quote me! Can someone Look at What Somebody's brain yielded!! I cant stop Laughing at Your ignorance bro/sis.......
Remember this,The word Archangel is used in the new Testament,while "One of The Chief Prince's" was used in The Old Testament....stop cönfusing urself..
..
@colored,so you are implying that there were many other Prince's lining up to take the role of Jesus as Savior and King,and son of God,and to inherit the fathers Inheritance? Smh!U r shallow minded lol!
..
I dont want to comment on the last one,i will leave u to correct urself..How dare u say That Jesus Christ was exalted to the Post of an archangel? na wa o! Obadiah777,see what your kingdom folk is saying? You guys will never cease amazing me with your erroneous scriptures and doctrines! Seriously,how confused can you not be? GOD FORBID...May God help u people!

Being described as "One of the chief princes" does not mean Michael can't be Jesus. Jesus is a Prince no doubt. But he's not the only one.

See except below from - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_princes_of_The_Bible
The Bible uses the word "prince" to represent the "leaders" of the nations, peoples... and even the leaders of the angels:

"And at that time [the time of the end] shall Michael stand up, the GREAT PRINCE which standeth for the children of thy people..." (Dan.12:1 NLT).

"So Jesus cast out the demon, and instantly the man could talk. The crowds marveled... But the Pharisees said, 'He can cast out demons because He is empowered by the PRINCE of demons.'" (Matt.9:1 NLT)

Satan is no doubt also one of the chief princes and the fact that he offered his kingdom to Jesus if Jesus falls down to worship him lends to this. Of course, in due time Jesus will defeat him for good, after (as Michael) throwing him out of heaven ( Rev 12:7).

The post of Archangel is an exalted position. Jesus went below angels by being human. For being faithful to the end of his human life, he was exalted above angels, towering and commanding them as the Archangel to do God's will - only God, his Father is superior. How is this insulting?

philfearon:
I left this thread after Obadiah777 agreed that Jesus Christ is his Personal Lord and Saviour ,But i had to come back on seeing u quote me! Can someone Look at What Somebody's brain yielded!! I cant stop Laughing at Your ignorance bro/sis.......
Remember this,The word Archangel is used in the new Testament,while "One of The Chief Prince's" was used in The Old Testament....stop cönfusing urself..
..
@colored,so you are implying that there were many other Prince's lining up to take the role of Jesus as Savior and King,and son of God,and to inherit the fathers Inheritance? Smh!U r shallow minded lol!
..
I dont want to comment on the last one,i will leave u to correct urself..How dare u say That Jesus Christ was exalted to the Post of an archangel? na wa o! Obadiah777,see what your kingdom folk is saying? You guys will never cease amazing me with your erroneous scriptures and doctrines! Seriously,how confused can you not be? GOD FORBID...May God help u people!

This stuff you are seeing here is sound doctrine... The truth is not popular, inshort if it is popular then its not the truth. Leave all dis nonsense you are saying, pick up ur Bible and read like someone who has never read the bible before, maybe the Holy Spirit go pity you a little give u small knowledge lmao, cos u are too stiff necked and rebellious. Carry your false doctrine and go somewhere else, you son of false doctrine. Follow Follow Mr, do as i do

TroGunn:

Jude 9 calls Michael "the Archangel". There's no indication from authentic bible books that there's more than one Archangel, being Michael. A key reason to believe Jesus ( having the voice of an archangel) is Michael, else why go borrow voice of Archangel.

Michael not condemning Satan in abusive terms at that time is no sign of hesitation - the time wasn't right to condemn Satan. And the "Lord" to do the "rebuking" there is certainly the Lord God Jehovah/Yahweh. No doubt Michael did not hesitate because in due time, same Michael leads his angels (Rev 12:7) against Satan and prevails against him. Michael there acted like Jesus would, defer to God's authority. Remember Jesus severally deferred to God's authority, like in John 8:28 - " So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."

Note too that Rev 12:7 says Michael (being Archangel) has his angels. Jesus is also spoken of having his angels at his command and using them to do God's work. (2 Thessalonians 1:7)


Jesus is not God Almighty. Whatever power Jesus has is given to him by God, and he is not equal to God, clear from 1 Corinthians 15:27,28. - "For he “has put everything under his feet.”Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all".

And also John 14:28 - " “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

There's only one Almighty God, the Father (Yahweh/Jehovah) who is greater than Jesus and Jesus remains subordinate to God.

Being Archangel or Chief of Angels does not demean Christ in anyway. Jesus as Archangel, commanding other angels, still remains the 2nd highest person in the whole universe subordinate only to the Almighty God, his Father who Jesus himself worships. And in due time, at God's command, Jesus will summarily deal with the troublemaker Satan.

As Hebrews clearly show, Jesus is superior to ordinary angels ( btw, the word "angel" means "messenger" ) - he is the Archangel, the commander of angels.

But Jesus himself is a messenger of God, clearly being called the "messenger of the covenant" (or "angel of the testament" - Catholic's Douay-Rheims Bible, http://drbo.org/chapter/44003.htm) in Malachi 3:1 - "Lo, I am sending My messenger, And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord whom ye are seeking, Even the messenger of the covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts". - Young's.

So if the Bible calls Jesus a messenger of God, Jesus himself says he's obeys and carries out his Father's commands and does nothing by himself, then why do people worry? If there's something we all need to learn from Christ the Messiah, it's his obedience, to his Father and God.

Truly. To me o,na bulls eye u hit. All dis started 4rm d 3in1 talk. 1 cor 15:27,28 just killed it. Weeds are really more than wheat just as Jesus prophesied. Helen ppl dey call demselves Christ ppl Make I sidon dey read again jor.

edogho: Truly. To me o,na bulls eye u hit. All dis started 4rm d 3in1 talk. 1 cor 15:27,28 just killed it. Weeds are really more than wheat just as Jesus prophesied. Helen ppl dey call demselves Christ ppl Make I sidon dey read again jor.

I know you won't see anything wrong with this post.

I agree with the quote of that Chorithians but what happen to that of Malachi?

Malachi 3:1 "I will send my messenger who shall prepare a way before ME...."

Who is that ME?
Is God that is talking or Jesus?


Shalom!

This same haugtiness- tiny humans beating their chest and shouting "Christ is too big to called Archangel" - is the same way some self-righteous and proud humans opted to remove God's name (Yahweh/Jehovah) from some Bible translations and replace it with "LORD" or "Lord", because in their opinion the name is too sacred to be pronounced. A name that God freely gave to be used to approach him.

If the Bible deems it ok to call Jesus a messenger (angel) in Malachi 3:1, who are we puny humans to say otherwise?

Malachi 3:1 - "Behold I send my angel, and he shall prepare the way before my face. And presently the Lord, whom you seek, and the angel of the testament, whom you desire, shall come to his temple . Behold he cometh, saith the Lord of hosts". - Catholic's Douay-Rheims Bible, http://drbo.org/chapter/44003.htm [/b]

If Jesus is in fact happy to serve his Father the Almighty and be his messenger, why is this an issue with mere humans, who should be learning from Christ's humility to God?

Christ remains the 2nd highest person in the universe (only subordinate to the highest person God, the Almighty) and it's a most exalted position.

TroGunn:

Being described as "One of the chief princes" does not mean Michael can't be Jesus. Jesus is a Prince no doubt. But he's not the only one.

See except below from - http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_are_the_princes_of_The_Bible
The Bible uses the word "prince" to represent the "leaders" of the nations, peoples... and even the leaders of the angels:

"And at that time [the time of the end] shall Michael stand up, the GREAT PRINCE which standeth for the children of thy people..." (Dan.12:1 NLT).

"So Jesus cast out the demon, and instantly the man could talk. The crowds marveled... But the Pharisees said, 'He can cast out demons because He is empowered by the PRINCE of demons.'" (Matt.9:1 NLT)

Satan is no doubt also one of the chief princes and the fact that he offered his kingdom to Jesus if Jesus falls down to worship him lends to this. Of course, in due time Jesus will defeat him for good, after (as Michael) throwing him out of heaven ( Rev 12:7).

The post of Archangel is an exalted position. Jesus went below angels by being human. For being faithful to the end of his human life, he was exalted above angels, towering and commanding them as the Archangel to do God's will - only God, his Father is superior. How is this insulting?

Mr TroGunn,i respect ur calm explanations without insults...But the problem here is,you guys seem to misunderstand the simple English "ARCHANGEL"...."ARCH" means CHIEF OR PRINCIPAL"
..Whats so hard to undastand in this? While "one of the chief angels was used in the old Testament, "Archangel" is used in the new Testament,and they are saying same thing......Ask urself,why is that Whenever Michael is mentioned in the new Testament,archangel is attached to it?
...
2ndly,You also misunderstand the Word "WITH"
Take up ur dictionary and see how it is used.....Thats my advice for u....
You just need to know about the hierachy of angels to understand who Michael is better!

MEILYN: This stuff you are seeing here is sound doctrine... The truth is not popular, inshort if it is popular then its not the truth. Leave all dis nonsense you are saying, pick up ur Bible and read like someone who has never read the bible before, maybe the Holy Spirit go pity you a little give u small knowledge lmao, cos u are too stiff necked and rebellious. Carry your false doctrine and go somewhere else, you son of false doctrine. Follow Follow Mr, do as i do

Only "lack of what to say,which comes from inability to accept the truth when it is staring you in the face" ,Causes you to insult people instead of Talking on topic and the post you quoted!
I just clarified you,now instead of talking on my clarification,you digress it to insulting me.. By Their Words and Deeds,we shall know them! Jesus said so....

House of Heresies!
Every man with his own doctrine. Well, God will vindicate the truth.

ammyluv2002: Guy, watch what you say ok......don't ever compare our saviour Jesus to the Angels. The bible made it clear on Trinity (God the father, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit) you see any Angel for there?

If Jesus Christ is God the flesh, then Angel Micheal could be God the Holy spirit while God the Father is the Almighty controller.

ariseandshine: House of Heresies!
Every man with his own doctrine. Well, God will vindicate the truth.

"JW, a house Where everyone is a Minister!"
Smh!

MEILYN: oga patapata scoffer. Chief prince of scoffing

some of these folks get Phd in scoffing Sire

philfearon:
Only "lack of what to say,which comes from inability to accept the truth when it is staring you in the face" ,Causes you to insult people instead of Talking on topic and the post you quoted!
I just clarified you,now instead of talking on my clarification,you digress it to insulting me.. By Their Words and Deeds,we shall know them! Jesus said so....

i didnt insult u, i only gave you an advice sire.. oh, u were the one calling Obadiah a m.o.r.o.n and an illiterate. U insulted brother mosthigh too.. I no know say advice dey pain you like this oo, if i come insult you nnko?

No, Angel Michael is NOT Jesus.

Jesus Christ is Lord,He is God the Son in the Holy Trinity. He is BEGOTTEN and not MADE.

Angel Michael is God's messanger and he was created.

MEILYN: i didnt insult u, i only gave you an advice sire.. oh, u were the one calling Obadiah a m.o.r.o.n and an illiterate. U insulted brother mosthigh too.. I no know say advice dey pain you like this oo, if i come insult you nnko?

solace-c4t:
No, Angel Michael is NOT Jesus.

Jesus Christ is Lord,He is God the Son in the Holy Trinity. He is BEGOTTEN and not MADE.

Angel Michael is God's messanger and he was created.

my sister u dont just come to a thread with over 16pages and 15000 views to give your own opinion without reading from page 1-16, dis stuff has already been resolved, not once not twice. What is Trinity? There is one Filling station in my area, d name is Trinity, they sell [kerosene, Fuel and Diesel.] dats what Trinity is a filling station. This doctrine of Trinity Trinity is Jargons, doctrine of demons i tell you.... Read 4rm page 1-16, i believe you will bite more than you can chew.... Some enlightened ppl have done justice to this thread. Tank u

MEILYN: i didnt insult u, i only gave you an advice sire.. oh, u were the one calling Obadiah a m.o.r.o.n and an illiterate. U insulted brother mosthigh too.. I no know say advice dey pain you like this oo, if i come insult you nnko?

philfearon is quite a pugnacious, cantankerous and bellicose fella i tell ya Sire

MEILYN: my sister u dont just come to a thread with over 16pages and 15000 views to give your own opinion without reading from page 1-16, dis stuff has already been resolved, not once not twice. What is Trinity? There is one Filling station in my area, d name is Trinity, they sell [kerosene, Fuel and Diesel.] dats what Trinity is a filling station. This doctrine of Trinity Trinity is Jargons, doctrine of demons i tell you.... Read 4rm page 1-16, i believe you will bite more than you can chew.... Some enlightened ppl have done justice to this thread. Tank u

trinity is a filling station ? well dayummmm jokes jokes jokes

MEILYN: i didnt insult u, i only gave you an advice sire.. oh, u were the one calling Obadiah a m.o.r.o.n and an illiterate. U insulted brother mosthigh too.. I no know say advice dey pain you like this oo, if i come insult you nnko?

Dude,i only rated his(obadiah777) I.Q.....and i dont remember insulting Mosthigh,and i remember i was ignoring him till i decided it was enough.......
You guys are the one the one ranting "stiff necked scoffers" all around the thread!
Since u cant even comprehend the simple things i have writing on this thread,i wonder how you Comprehend the Holy Bible!

obadiah777: philfearon is quite a pugnacious, cantankerous and bellicose fella i tell ya Sire

You see my Point? How can someone who claims to read the Bible and understand it be making such statements as u do?
Like i said,"you guys read the bible to find where to attach your erroneous doctrines;and u read it for fun,to taunt at others,claiming u are ENLIGHTENED"...
Like the Bible said,"by their fruits,we shall know them"

obadiah777: philfearon is quite a pugnacious, cantankerous and bellicose fella i tell ya Sire

lwtmb Obadiah u gat mail.

philfearon:
Dude,i only rated his(obadiah777) I.Q.....and i dont remember insulting Mosthigh,and i remember i was ignoring him till i decided it was enough.......
You guys are the one the one ranting "stiff necked scoffers" all around the thread!
Since u cant even comprehend the simple things i have writing on this thread,i wonder how you Comprehend the Holy Bible!

Take a critical look around you, it is you that is on the popular side.

Broad is the road to destruction, ever heard that phrase before?

There are over 2 billion people configured exactly like you.

I say configured because of the mind controll factor.

The mistery behind the gospel have been twisted by many,the mistery of iniquity is now taking over. Its no surprise the Jehovah witnesses are twisting the bible just to please there personal believe. Moreover, the book of revelation is not a book you apply literary meanings to,you need divine wisdom from above to understand. Do yourself some good,humble yourself before him so you can learn better. May God help all of us.

obadiah777: that notwithstanding, the case has been proven Chief. but with regards to the lion roar of Revelation chapter 10, its because you dont understand the book of Revelation is why you hold your position. the book of Revelation is chronologically sequenced. the lion roaring in chapter 10 is Christ but then again i have to assume you dont know much about the book of Revelation.

philfearon:
Mr TroGunn,i respect ur calm explanations without insults...But the problem here is,you guys seem to misunderstand the simple English "ARCHANGEL"...."ARCH" means CHIEF OR PRINCIPAL"
..Whats so hard to undastand in this? While "one of the chief angels was used in the old Testament, "Archangel" is used in the new Testament,and they are saying same thing......Ask urself,why is that Whenever Michael is mentioned in the new Testament,archangel is attached to it?
...
2ndly,You also misunderstand the Word "WITH"
Take up ur dictionary and see how it is used.....Thats my advice for u....
You just need to know about the hierachy of angels to understand who Michael is better!

The usage of the word Archangel in authentic Bible books points to only one Archangel Michael. In Jude 9, Michael is called "the Archangel".

You are wrong - "one of the chief angels" is not used in the Bible. I know of the usage of "one of the chief princes" and from the scriptures Jesus is not the only one that could be described as a chief prince. The Bible uses the word "prince" to represent the "leaders" of the nations, peoples.

Satan is also a chief prince ( of demons, rebel angels), being even called the "god of this world" Cor 4:4.

So calling Michael "one of the chief princes" does not mean he can't be Jesus. "Chief prince" does not equate "archangel" - don't assume. "Chief prince" is leader of nation or people in meaning, while "archangel" is chief or principal or commander of angels as you rightly pointed out.

Biblical evidence point to Jesus being Michael, down to Jesus having the voice of archangel.

ariseandshine: House of Heresies!
Every man with his own doctrine. Well, God will vindicate the truth.

the truth is all out there...a bit of insight for all...
Check daniel 10:5-6,21 get the description of whom daniel saw and compare it with whom john saw in Rev 1:12-15, all through to 16 and 18. Relate what you see, relate what was spoken...i hope your understanding will be open. As for me i am persuaded not to speak on this matter anymore. SHALOM

TroGunn:

The usage of the word Archangel in authentic Bible books points to only one Archangel Michael. In Jude 9, Michael is called "the Archangel".

You are wrong - "one of the chief angels" is not used in the Bible. I know of the usage of "one of the chief princes" and from the scriptures Jesus is not the only one that could be described as a chief prince. The Bible uses the word "prince" to represent the "leaders" of the nations, peoples.

Satan is also a chief prince ( of demons, rebel angels), being even called the "god of this world" Cor 4:4.

So calling Michael "one of the chief princes" does not mean he can't be Jesus. "Chief prince" does not equate "archangel" - don't assume. "Chief prince" is leader of nation or people in meaning, while "archangel" is chief or principal or commander of angels as you rightly pointed out.

Biblical evidence point to Jesus being Michael, down to Jesus having the voice of archangel.

If am not mistaken,Your point is that:
1)Jesus is one of the Chief Prince's and an Archangel too..
2)That Jesus is ArchAngel Michael before his incarnation on earth and then after his ascension into Heaven..
3)That "WITH" means "IN"......
.....
Okay,suppose i believe the number1 point,how about the number2? Now check this
REVELATION22vs16:"I,Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches..I am the Root and the Offspring of David,The Bright and Morning Star"
..
Revelation 12vs7:And War broke out in Heaven:Michael and his Angels fought with the dragon;and the dragon and his angels fought back
Now,what am i saying here? John stayed with Jesus throughout His earthly Ministry,infact,he is the "Beloved" ,that Jesus even had to handover His Mother to him.....
Now tell me,how could John see Jesus and not recognise Jesus? How could he see his master and call him Michael? Is like you staying with ur mum for years,and then you travel,and when you come back,you mistake your Mum for your little sister.....Now why would John say "Michael" and his angels?.....This is because,not every angel was created to fight,they all have their own specific roles.,and Michael who is the chief warrior angel has his legions who fights with him in every war....And if you keep reading Revelation,you will hear John say,another mighty angel,telling u that there are angels who are also powerful too,and have their own legion which takes order from them...for example:
Revelation18vs1: "After these things, i saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven,having great authority,and the earth was illuminated with his glory..
Verse2:"and he cried mightily with a loud voice saying....".(search 4 angel Jophiel)
Now can an ordinary angel have such great authority? And doesnt it occur to u that these angel has his own legions?
Verse21:"Then a mighty angel........"
....
Okay lets get to chapter 20..
REVELATION20vs1:"then i saw an angel coming down from heaven,having the key to the bottomless pit,and a great chain in his hand..
2:he laid hold of the dragon,that serpent of old,who is the devil and Satan,and bound him for a thousand years..
3:and he cast him into the bottomless pit,and shut him up,and set a seal on him,so that he should decieve the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.But after these things,he must be released for a little while"..
Now,can any other other angel do this except a chief angel,just like Satan was previously?
My brother,your argument holds no ground..Michael is the warrior angel,just like Gabriel is the Chief Messenger of God..Unless there is War,You wont see Michael in the Picture..The whole time that Michael was mentioned in the bible,he was always fighting,Thats his Duty!..
Gabriel too only comes in the Picture only When there is a Message to Deliver....For instance,When the Greatest Message of all time was to be delivered(tHE MESSAGE OF THE CONCEPTION AND BIRTH OF CHRIST),God sent his Chief Messenger,Gabriel,...
Luke1vs26:Now in the sixth month,the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth".
Now,about Who Gabriel is:
"Luke1vs19:And the angel said to him(Zachariah in this case) "i am Gabriel,who stands in the Presence of God,and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings"....
Now can Ordinary angel stand in the presence of God,the answer is "No",and you can see that Michael is not the Only angel with the Authority to stand in the presence of God...There are Others,of which Gabriel is one........
My brother,the bible is really simple to understand...
Like Humans,angels have the specific roles which they play....Its really a simple thing to comprehend....
War==>Michael appears..No war,no Michael
Message==>Gabriel Appears..No message,no Gabriel
Revelation also revealed the duties of other angels....Is this really hard to understand?
If after reading this,you still continue i

TroGunn:



You are wrong - "one of the chief angels" is not used in the Bible. I know of the usage of "one of the chief princes"

"Chief prince" does not equate "archangel" - don't assume.....
..


.

Seriously,when i quoted you the first time,i was happy explaining Things..
But with these Things you said now,I cant talk with u anymore...You just fall hands full time......
The Last time i checked,i dont see Anywhere Where Michael was Transformed from Chief Prince to Chief angel.....................AM DONE TALKING....and yeah,Chief angel is used in "DANIEL 10VS13"....
Its just the product of different interpretations...And mind you,The Person Describing "Michael" in that Passage is an angel too..........What is hard to understand in all this?
Men,am out of this Thread!.....

philfearon:
If am not mistaken,Your point is that:
1)Jesus is one of the Chief Prince's and an Archangel too..
2)That Jesus is ArchAngel Michael before his incarnation on earth and then after his ascension into Heaven..
3)That "WITH" means "IN"......
.....
Okay,suppose i believe the number1 point,how about the number2? Now check this
REVELATION22vs16:"I,Jesus have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches..I am the Root and the Offspring of David,The Bright and Morning Star"
..
Revelation 12vs7:And War broke out in Heaven:Michael and his Angels fought with the dragon;and the dragon and his angels fought back
Now,what am i saying here? John stayed with Jesus throughout His earthly Ministry,infact,he is the "Beloved" ,that Jesus even had to handover His Mother to him.....
Now tell me,how could John see Jesus and not recognise Jesus? How could he see his master and call him Michael? Is like you staying with ur mum for years,and then you travel,and when you come back,you mistake your Mum for your little sister.....Now why would John say "Michael" and his angels?.....This is because,not every angel was created to fight,they all have their own specific roles.,and Michael who is the chief warrior angel has his legions who fights with him in every war....And if you keep reading Revelation,you will hear John say,another mighty angel,telling u that there are angels who are also powerful too,and have their own legion which takes order from them...for example:
Revelation18vs1: "After these things, i saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven,having great authority,and the earth was illuminated with his glory..
Verse2:"and he cried mightily with a loud voice saying....".(search 4 angel Jophiel)
Now can an ordinary angel have such great authority? And doesnt it occur to u that these angel has his own legions?
Verse21:"Then a mighty angel........"
....
Okay lets get to chapter 20..
REVELATION20vs1:"then i saw an angel coming down from heaven,having the key to the bottomless pit,and a great chain in his hand..
2:he laid hold of the dragon,that serpent of old,who is the devil and Satan,and bound him for a thousand years..
3:and he cast him into the bottomless pit,and shut him up,and set a seal on him,so that he should decieve the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.But after these things,he must be released for a little while"..
Now,can any other other angel do this except a chief angel,just like Satan was previously?
My brother,your argument holds no ground..Michael is the warrior angel,just like Gabriel is the Chief Messenger of God..Unless there is War,You wont see Michael in the Picture..The whole time that Michael was mentioned in the bible,he was always fighting,Thats his Duty!..
Gabriel too only comes in the Picture only When there is a Message to Deliver....For instance,When the Greatest Message of all time was to be delivered(tHE MESSAGE OF THE CONCEPTION AND BIRTH OF CHRIST),God sent his Chief Messenger,Gabriel,...
Luke1vs26:Now in the sixth month,the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth".
Now,about Who Gabriel is:
"Luke1vs19:And the angel said to him(Zachariah in this case) "i am Gabriel,who stands in the Presence of God,and was sent to speak to you and bring you these glad tidings"....
Now can Ordinary angel stand in the presence of God,the answer is "No",and you can see that Michael is not the Only angel with the Authority to stand in the presence of God...There are Others,of which Gabriel is one........
My brother,the bible is really simple to understand...
Like Humans,angels have the specific roles which they play....Its really a simple thing to comprehend....
War==>Michael appears..No war,no Michael
Message==>Gabriel Appears..No message,no Gabriel
Revelation also revealed the duties of other angels....Is this really hard to understand?
If after reading this,you still continue i

I see you are really struggling to let go of your deeply held raditions. I get it, aint easy. But calling angel Gabriel an Archangel because he "stands in the Presence of God" is really clutching at straws. You have no Biblical basis for such assertion. The bible clearly only names Michael as "the Archangel". Don't add or subtract from the Bible!

And yes, other angels are spoken of many times as being in the presence of God like in Job 1:6 quoted from two translations below:

"One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them". - New International Version

"Now it happened on the day when God's sons came to present themselves before Yahweh, that Satan also came among them". - World English Bible

The "strong" angel mentioned in Revelation - putting Satan in bottomless pit - is very likely Michael (Jesus). It's such an important task that one would expect Christ to be the one to do it. Genesis includes the prophecy that the seed of the woman ( Jesus) would bruise the serpent (Satan) in the head, so it's not that farfetched that the strong angel that will eliminate Satan will be Jesus. Afterall, as Michael he'll throw Satan out of heaven.

Michael sure does lead his angels in righteous spiritual war against Satan and his demons. And Jesus is spoken of doing same - leading his angels in war. A logical conclusion, all other evidences being considered, is that Michael is Jesus in the role as Archangel, prosecuting war to defend God's name and carry out God's commands. Michael means "who is like God" and no one defends his Father like Jesus Christ - willingly reducing himself to dying as a common criminal so that he would do his Father's will.

Nothing demeaning in Jesus being Michael. Drop it already - the Bible's message is clear and simple.

philfearon:
Seriously,when i quoted you the first time,i was happy explaining Things..
But with these Things you said now,I cant talk with u anymore...You just fall hands full time......
The Last time i checked,i dont see Anywhere Where Michael was Transformed from Chief Prince to Chief angel.....................AM DONE TALKING....and yeah,Chief angel is used in "DANIEL 10VS13"....
Its just the product of different interpretations...And mind you,The Person Describing "Michael" in that Passage is an angel too..........What is hard to understand in all this?
Men,am out of this Thread!.....

In Daniel 10:13, "princes" is the correct word, not "angel". The Hebrew word for "princes" used in Daniel 10:13 is "haś·śā·rîm" and it appears 33 times in the Bible, and it does not equate "angel". See all 33 occurences here - http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/hassarim_8269.htm

Now the Hebrew word for "angel" is ū·mal·’aḵ ( meaning messenger) and it appears 16 times, all occurences here - http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/umalach_4397.htm

Clearly any translation that uses "chief angels" in Dan10:13 is inaccurate.

Biblically, one Archangel is mentioned and it's Michael, "the Archangel" (Jude 9).