Why are we all so naive
I have noticed it is pointless trying to make a point on these issues concerning the church.
I actually have nothing to say
but this.Have u thot about what it wud cost to start an airline bizness.
Im sure you haven:t
why not research b4 speakin. Thats the problem with Nigerians they have an unteachable spirit.They think they know but they know nothing at all
Taking you for example
do you pay ur 10%
or are you a pegan.
Look n he practices what he preaches n it works for him. Instead of critisize why not try it n see if it works. These are characteristics of a scientist. Cos all agurments or statements made here are without facts

Food for thot; Back biters always remain behind
You keep critisizing him but he remains centuries ahead of you.
Recognise the success of another n aspire to be greater n God will bless u.
Think about it

My number is 08025214486
e-mail ralfchidus@yahoo.co.uik
call me, send me an e-mail drop me an offline any time n ill get back to you.
Christianity is not a religion it is a LIFE

On the last day God will judge his people.

Until that day Pastor Chris will carry on robbing and cheating the poor whilst he and his evil wife become fat cats!

My hand no dey!

my advice, give your opinion and live the rest.

Robbing the poor to pay the rich!

U are young
U are Naive
U dont understand the gravity of your statement
U see something on the paper n believe
we dont have no airline
why does it bite u so much if we do
Look even if we do, its a ministry some thing n not a personal thing
I have just said a few
Learn
its the secret to success
I saw ur profile n i thing u are cute
I LOVE U TOO

monieazie:

U are young
U are Naive
U don't understand the gravity of your statement
U see something on the paper n believe
we don't have no airline
why does it bite u so much if we do
Look even if we do, its a ministry some thing n not a personal thing
I have just said a few
Learn
its the secret to success
I saw your profile n i thing u are cute
I LOVE U TOO

@monieazie

erm, is that for Kinky Rev. ?

Revrend,
Thanks for the logo,I'm sure that the real CUSTOMERS of Christ Embassy would be proud, the logo says it all,

monieazie:

U are young
U are Naive
U don't understand the gravity of your statement
U see something on the paper n believe
we don't have no airline
why does it bite u so much if we do
Look even if we do, its a ministry some thing n not a personal thing
I have just said a few
Learn
its the secret to success
I saw your profile n i thing u are cute
I LOVE U TOO

@Monieazie,
No need to get angry,the Good Rev.is just telling it as it is.Its a good advert for your Pastor's BUSINESS (sic) CHURCH.
Take a Chill Pill Playaa!

Has anyone ever experienced a real miracle by all these pastors?

May God have mercy on me if I'm wrong, but I believe that we Nigerians have taken this "touch not my annointed" to another level. When God asked us to test the spirits of anyone who claims to come in His name, how did He expect us to do it? We are not supposed to take everything our pastors say or do just like that, we are to compare it to the standards set by God in the Bible. If they don't measure up to God's standards, we have every right as His children to say. OK, maybe we shouldn't be saying it to unbelievers, and not on the internet. I guess we should point the Truth out in the church. However, we're in a society whereby the Pastor is the One and Only, and All in All in the church. Anyone who disagrees with the leader of a church is ostracized. The church has left NO room for criticism. The pastors expect us to take their words as God's words whether or not they agree with the bible. This is what we're against, and if they wouldn't allow us criticize it in the church, we might as well do it elsewhere where christians are.

The truth is, many Nigerians are being manipulated by their pastors. They think they're christians but they aren't; their pastors are leading them to hell. The onus is on those of us whose eyes have opened to this wickedness in the church to point it out. I'm not saying pastor Chris or any other person is bad. All I'm saying is we should always cross-check our pastors' actions and deeds with the bible. That "touch not" passage means don't harm them - physically, verbally, spiritually etc. I'm not doing that.

GL that was well constructed.

you are a very churchious person by your statements
n that is understandable
you spoke with wisdom when u said u are not a pastor critis
But listen, If they say God said then it is true
Look until u can believe like a child
u are not gonna enter d kingdom of God.
U say we are taking this touch not my annointed too far but i do not think so.
God made that statement knowin that in the future people will surely do tht to his prophet
The b ible says Obey d lord ur God so shasll u be established
Beliieve his prophet so shall ye prosper
Think about it
Until then, the glory u wanna see will not be fully manifested unto u.

Beliieve his prophet so shall ye prosper

It should read "Believe his prophet so that his prophet shall prosper"

The Bible may say obey the Lord. The Bible does not say give your money to a false prophet so that him and his wife become rich, fat cats at the expenses of the poor.

In March 2002, Lawrence Agada, an assistant pastor who was a cashier with the Lagos Sheraton Hotels and Towers, donated cash and gifts totaling N39 million to the church. Agada’s donations were in instalments. He bought a 250KVA generator valued at N4.4 million, and another 27KVA generator for N1.5 million, which he donated to a satellite branch of the church. Before then, he had given N6 million for the refurbishment of the branch, as well as N1 million for the purchase of plastic seats for the headquarters.

onanugaola:

In March 2002, Lawrence Agada, an assistant pastor who was a cashier with the Lagos Sheraton Hotels and Towers, donated cash and gifts totaling N39 million to the church. Agada’s donations were in instalments. He bought a 250KVA generator valued at N4.4 million, and another 27KVA generator for N1.5 million, which he donated to a satellite branch of the church. Before then, he had given N6 million for the refurbishment of the branch, as well as N1 million for the purchase of plastic seats for the headquarters.

To All Question Not My Pastor Bridgade,

   I'm curious did this man return the stolen money he sowed in the business (sic) church or did he get 100% reward/blessing?

Pastor Chris made the controversial decision not to return the money. He even rejected a police invitation. "Touch not my annointed" seems to be a very powerful idea in Nigeria. One day humpty dumpty will fall.

thanks Raldsfield.

monieazie, i'm not sure i know what churchious means, so i can't say if i am or not.
I disagree very strongly that if they say God said, then it is true. I'm not saying we shouldn't obey them, I'm saying we must find out if what they're saying is truly from God. Jesus Himself warned that many would come in His name but they would be wolves in sheep clothing. He even said that many of those who are casting out demons and performing miracles in His name aren't known to Him. Thus, we shouldn't just obey a pastor because he is called that, or because he performs miracles. We all have access to God, and we can verify if a pastor is doing God's will or not.

It is easy for us - christians- to be deceived, especially as we're to go about it as children. This is why we should be serpents but gentle as doves. We need to realize that pastors aren't infallible. They commit the same sins as you & me, even though it may not show from afar. We must shift our focus from pastors to God. Like us, they are dependent on God's grace. We are all important to God.

One thing I've discovered is that ppl twist scriptures to support whatever they want to say. This is worse in pentecostal circles, where the Holy Spirit is emphasized. Since our relationships with Him are personal, ppl can claim to have heard just about anything from God. We are to prayerfully separate the truth from the lies.

All my people vote for who won me or menike
At my thread champs from freestyle

I like and respect pastors generally, and believe that there are so many sincere ones. Like any other profession, we have corrupt practicians. However, I feel it is our duty to keep corruption out of the church. I don't like it when pastors manipulate their congregation, and believe it's best for us to be alert. We tend to let down our guards in church, and we should, except that we must be on the watchout for the wolves in sheep clothing. The truth is, we can never know for sure who is a wolf except we are watching out for them.

I really hope my posts haven't cut across as cynical because I'm not. I'm not holy, righteous or good. I'm not an expert in church matters. I'm just someone, who as a child loved God, and everything that had to do with church. I loved my pastor sooo much and thought he was infallible. He, rather than the bible, was my standard. If someone had told me then that he was my god, I'd have disagreed. but looking back, I see that he was demigod to me. In my heart, he was between God and the rest of mankind, though much closer to God. Then I started hearing and noticing things, but being a loyal child, i dismissed them. Told myself it was bad ppl spoiling my mind. These things bcame so obvious i couldn't dismiss them anymore. Somehow, God helped me through a period of not even caring about Him or church or anything/anybody. I believe that this pastor may not be bad in himself, however, i had placed on such a high pedestal that i began to see God through him. When i was eventually forced to see a fault in him, I saw God as faulty.

I think this state of mind is very common in Nigeria; we tend to think that way of pastors. When we focus on pastors, they bcome a barrier between us and God. We shouldn't, they are men like us, dependent on the same grace of God to live aright. Except that many times, they've learnt to subdue their flesh in a way we haven't.  They normally can't do anything extraordinary on their own, it's God who does it through them. But we sometimes bcome so impressed by some of these wonders, that they are forced to do all sorts of things to maintain the status quo.

Moukee,there is just one thing that I have to tell and that is what the bible says:"By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned".
I have so much compassion for the folks in here who have spoken against Pastor Chris.The truth is that most of you have do not know him.So why speak so wrongly about a man you do not know simply because you read something in the dailies.Don't you all understand the devil is playing games on you? He gets his kids in the press to right nonesense about some man of God so that people like you will open your mouths and condemn themselves(thinking they are expressing their freedom of speech).Ask yourself,"how many times have these guys written about what God is doing through Pastor Chris?Or do you think God is weak?
Remember,the devil is the god of this world's system.Do not let the devil get you.

Some of you are asking where he gets all the money from.Now let me tell you the truth,I won't go into the principles in the word of God that Pastor Chris has been practising and teaching,that has brought him to where he is today and that is taking him to where he is journeying to.The reason I won't do that is because the wisdom of God is foolishness to man and we speak the wisdom of God only to the initiated.But if you want to know where he gets all the money from,listen to him and you will know his source.

The Lord Jesus said "you will always have the poor among you".How true!It is all about a mindset.There is a mindset of the world and a mindset of the righteous.And you are a product of your mindset.The mindset of the righteous was what God delivered to King Solomon and that was what brought him all the wealth and fame.That is the same mindset(wisdom) God has delivered to Pastor Chris.It will take a dishonest and jealous person to say he does not know/see that Pastor Chris is not of this world.Asking where he gets all the money from just shows that you guys and the world at large knows he is loaded.

Let me give the Christians in the thread an advice:
When you enthrone the word of God in your life ,the word of God will deliver to you prosperity and influence that the world will marvel at.Now,some will criticize and some will get inspired.It will always be the story.So don't get caught up with the wisdom of this world( the wisdom of the ungodly) which actually leads to poverty. The wisdom of this world may deliver prosperity to you,but it won't last.It won't be long before you get broke,because the system of this world was designed to make men poor.
Please,consider my words!
Remember that by your words you will be Justified and by your words you will be condemned.The choice is yours.

God bless you.

GL,
I am not suprised at your posts,even though you said you belong to RCCG.You know why?Cos I can undewrstand it is a result of your wisdom(Phronesis,mindset). You do not have the right to question your man of God (ask Aaron and Miriam).If you don't agree with him,you better check out before you get leprous.And if you think that your mean 10% is what is making your Pastor rich,then keep it(save it in a bank ) and let us find out who will be broke at the end of the day.I want you to know that your prosperity lies with your man of God(if you know what I mean).But your man of God's prosperity is not in your hands.In other words you cannot prosper him.His prosperity is from God.But if he didn't know that,he will be looking up to tithes and offerings as his source and he will never get big.But Pastor Chris knows better than that.That is why he is getting bigger and bigger and God is actually giving him all the money to shut the devil up.

So let us get things straight.Pastor Chris does not live on the tithes and offerings collected in church.Otherwise he would have been broke by now(if you know what I mean).But it takes a twisted mind to post the kind of things that some have been posting here.
Look at Judas;a lady pours out a costly perfume on Jesus and he gets furious,thinking it was a waste.He said the perfume could have been sold for so much money and the proceeds used to take care of the poor,not because he cared for the poor,but because he was the treasurer,and consistently stole from the treasury.You guys never thought the Lord Jesus has a treasurer ,huh?He was not broke like most of you think(the roman soldiers struggled for his garment)

But the Lord Jesus said " the poor you will always have with you".
Now all of you that are concerned about the poor,how many of your relatives have you put through school,clothed and fed.Let us start from there.

Your posts,have let people out here know the kind of people you are .You do not care about the poor at all.No you don't.You are just wishing you had the opportunity to be collecting 10%(how myopic you are!).

If people like you were put in charge of the church treaury,you will loot the whole stuff.You think God is not smart?

Let me even give you a clue:
you are talking about a TV station,how much does it cost to have one.The ministry under the able leadership of Pastor Chris has a 24 hour satelite tv (LCN) and once you get hooked you are in for life(no subscriptions)Do you know how much it costs to keep LCN out there,yet he does not take subscriptions)?
That is the mindset of the rich! Do you know how many TV stations in Nigeria and Abroad air our programs daily ?Do you how much that costs?And he has never asked you for money to do it.Actually the foreign stations are amazed that a ministry from Africa can pay the kind of money they are charging and that ahead of time?
Do you know how much it costs to put the ministry on the internet(i am not talking about hosting a website cos that is cheap)?Do you know how many books,tapes,cdsand dvds are being distributed free of charge to all around the world? And these things are done ro reach out to the lost and poor folks.And you guys are here talking about floating an airline,TV station and fastfood outlet.
The poor will always complain againt the rich.You will never see a truly rich man criticizing another rich man(I am not talking about those who steal from the treasury like Judas).
So keep talking while Pastor Chris keeps working and making progress.You see him on Tv and you admire him,you want to be be like him but because you are twisted you ciriticize.
This is absurd!

[i][/i][color=#990000][/color]Gospel man preach on preacher, tell em as it is.
In the future they'll be wondering why their life is the way it is.

In a way you can understand their plight cos many of them have fallen and are still falling into the hands of theives and greedy men in pastor's clothing.

Some are in churches where their pastors have to beg to have their salaries paid.

I have been in Christ embassy for over 6 yrs and have not had cause to doubt the i am in a ministry endorsed by Jesus Himself. I know Pastor Chris does not recieve a dime from the sale or sponsorship of books and tapes around the world. By choice he had ceased recieving salary from church several years ago. That is why God keeps channeling money to his faithful servant.

The fearful truth is that it will take the grace of God for them to understand their error and repent.

Left to the devil, he will rather have them continue and  later say oh no, had i known at the end.

"Religion supports nobody. It has to be supported. It produces no wheat, no corn; it ploughs no land; it fells no forests. It is a perpetual mendicant. It lives on the labors of others, and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver" - Robert G. Ingersoll

The above quotatiopn was submitted by Ijebuman. Tell me, do you still believe this quote despite the innovative business ventures that Chris Oyhaks and other ministries in Nigeria are involved with? Or would you rather have the church remain a beggar and have to beg and beg its members and non-believers alike in order to raise the necesary funds for its own needs? I think people just believe the church should be a poor institution and they have a problem when they see that the church is affluent.

Personally, I have my beef with Pastor Chris since the day he started fraternising with T.B. Joshua. However, I must commend him for this innovative step if it is true. We have been called as light of the world, and that means we must be doing things that others will see and follow. The Church is to be involved in ever facet of our lives, economic to political. We are meant to be pacesetters and that is what I see him doing.

For the critics, what would you prefer he does with the money he has available? Bank it in Switzerland? This is money well-spent and it is sure to help our economy. The church is beginning to enter into the prophetic status that has been foretold in the scriptures. We are told that we will lend to nations, and I believe the time is coming when nations will be coming to the church to ask for loan to help their economy. Mark my words on that.

I have no problem with the Church paying taxes. Infact, it is scriptural to do just that since Jesus comanded us to "Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and give unto God what is God's." Paying taxes will not make us less prosperous, but it will rather make us even more prosperous because it is a direct obedience to God's command, and obedience brings prosperity.

As mentioned by others on this thread, the church set up schools in time past with no one complaining about that, and now that the church is evolving with the times, we have all these criticisms. Please let us be more accomodating and try to believe the best of others. As some one said: "we judge others by their actions, but judge ourselves by our good intentions." That is so hypocritical.

Seun:

Pastor Chris made the controversial decision not to return the money. He even rejected a police invitation. "Touch not my annointed" seems to be a very powerful idea in Nigeria. One day humpty dumpty will fall.

think this is the only thing you and i will ever agree on, i fell that pastors should not be paid the should have other jobs and the church should be a genuine calling, take the money out of it and see what happends

Gospelman,

I wish I could lie and say I wasn't surprised by ur post, but I was. I was so shocked at the venom in ur post that I couldn't reply u immediately I read it. I felt paralyzed by the shock that I began to wonder if the leprosy you talked about had already come on me. Thank God for His mercies, though, I'm still alive and healthy one week after.

I'm surprised u chose me to attack especially as I made it quite clear I have nothing against Pastor Chris. I talk about pastors and not one pastor in particular. Surely, there are ppl here who are very close to being anti-Pastor Chris that u could have attacked.

I really want to answer ur post, to take u up on every issue but it would be a waste of time. I've already said everything I would say if I were to answer ur post anyway. So I decided to just ignore it and not retaliate (I believe that's expected of a christian). Not that I have any choice though, because I'm not sure I can direct such a hateful speech at anybody (not even you).


BTW, what's the meaning of phronesis? Just curious.

Donnie,

I’m so glad that unlike the other “supporters” (God knows I’m not an opponent), you realize that there are “thieves and greedy men in pastor’s clothing”. Your fellow “supporters” are pretending there’s no such thing. Saying we should obey anyone who mentions God, as if God Himself didn’t warn that many would come falsely in His name. I have nothing at all against ur pastor, all I’m saying is that there’s no way we can know who is a “thief or greedy man in pastor’s clothing” except we crosscheck everyone who comes in “pastor’s clothing”. I’ve never said “Pastor A is bad”, I’m only saying let’s crosscheck them all to ensure we’re following a true pastor.



TayoD,

I understand the sentiments behind that quote submitted by Ijebuman. Christianity can be (and has at sometimes been) distorted to make that quote true. Christianity when practiced as it should be adds to the people, but many people today don’t feel anything is being added to them. They feel they’re adding to the church. Haven’t u heard of ppl who don’t go to church because they have no offering, and their church collects 3 or more offerings? I’m not against churches being affluent. I’m only particular about how they use that wealth. I believe it would be better to invest in lives, eternal souls, bodies that house the Holy Spirit than to invest in buildings that the Antichrist would either confiscate or destroy. BTW, are u sure churches still don’t ask members and non-members for money?

I know Pastor Chris does not recieve a dime from the sale or sponsorship of books and tapes around the world. By choice he had ceased recieving salary from church several years ago. That is why God keeps channeling money to his faithful servant.

If you believe that, you will believe anything

Lost soul, try harder, maybe you could get a few souls to join you on your journey to hell.

You have no idea what amount of wealth we control by the name of Jesus. All you can do is rattle ur little tongue while we continue with our business of touching lives for Jesus.

The bible encourage living a simple life just as our master did. Could you imagine Jesus doing some buisness with the roman of his day? Jesus even made this statement 'The son of has no place to lay his head' 'my food is for me to do the will of he that send me' and he want us to follow his foot step closely. in summary let us concentrate in winning soul for God

Question: did Jesus condemn the idea of His disciples engaging in business?
Answer: No sir!

"Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my
coming I should have received what was my own with interest."
(Matt. 25:27, ESV).

Question: what is the attitude of the Bible to money and business among
Christians?
Answer: do not worship money!

"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love
the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You
cannot serve God and money." (Matt. 6:24, ESV).

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving
that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with
many pangs." (I Tim. 6:10, ESV).

"As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to
set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides
us with everything to enjoy." (I Tim. 6:17).

Question: what does the Bible say about complainers who hoot against the
Lord's servants who are usefully and seriously engaged in kingdom exploits?
Answer: His servants will be more blessed and increase, while the hooters
will be losers at all times!

"For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance.
But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away."
(Matt. 25:29, ESV).

"One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should
give, and only suffers want." (Prov. 11:24, ESV).

Summary: May God continue to bless His servants who do exploits for His
Kingdom, engage people in education, business, career pursuits; relieve the
oppressed and destitute, preach the Gospel to the poor, and increase in
whatever their hands find to do!

May God raise more of His servants to "float" Jet Airlines, Radio and TV stations
with all kinds of latest tech (transponders and satellites inclusive), corporate
businesses, banks, Supermarkets and Malls; transform nations with a new
industrial revolution; be pioneers in charting new courses in every field of
human endeavour. Yes, and may the hooting get louder as God increases His
servants!!

In our world today, God's people cannot afford to sit by and do nothing in
the face of financial need. I'm not advocating the so-called prosperity Gospel,
but I'd cast my vote for men and women of faith who know how to handle
money for the Lord's cause. Certainly, I don't sanction the idea of any man
of God or church receiving stolen money as "donations". Yet, I believe that
God's intent for His people is to use wealth with integrity and to enjoy the
promise of His word in the pursuit of His Kingdom purposes:

"For the LORD your God will bless you, as he promised you, and you shall
lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow, and you shall rule over many
nations, but they shall not rule over you." (Deut. 15:6).

"The LORD will open to you his good treasury, the heavens, to give the rain
to your land in its season and to bless all the work of your hands. And you
shall lend to many nations, but you shall not borrow." (Deut. 28:12).

"And the LORD will make you the head and not the tail, and you shall only
go up and not down, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God,
which I command you today, being careful to do them" (Deut. 28:13).

Summary: May God continue to bless His servants who do exploits for His
Kingdom, engage people in education, business, career pursuits; relieve the
oppressed and destitute, preach the Gospel to the poor, and increase in
whatever their hands find to do!

May God raise more of His servants to "float" Jet Airlines, Radio and TV stations
with all kinds of latest tech (transponders and satellites inclusive), corporate
businesses, banks, Supermarkets and Malls; transform nations with a new
industrial revolution; be pioneers in charting new courses in every field of
human endeavour. Yes, and may the hooting get louder as God increases His
servants!!

AMEN

baby4u2:

Summary:

May God raise more of His servants to "float" Jet Airlines, Radio and TV stations
with all kinds of latest tech (transponders and satellites inclusive), corporate
businesses, banks, Supermarkets and Malls; transform nations with a new
industrial revolution; be pioneers in charting new courses in every field of
human endeavour. Yes, and may the hooting get louder as God increases His
servants!!

AMEN

These are wise words and I am sure that Managing Director Pastor Chris and Anita would agree with you.

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