Alfa Seltzer:

A default position is by nature, the logical position.
For those in non logical position to accuse those in the logical position of irrationality can only mean one thing: projection.

What nonsense is this? Rubbish! You didn't notice how you sound.
Rey: Why do you think atheism is a rational position?
Alfa: Because you are holding an irrational position and atheism the default position.
Rey: (Shocked but swallows it). Do default positions transcend logic?
Alfa: Default positions are by nature logical.
Rey: What makes atheism as a default position logical?
Alfa: Because theism is irrational and atheism is rational.
Rey: Please make me understand. How is atheism rational.
Alfa: I already told you that as a default positions it is logical.
Rey: How do you mean logical?
Alfa: Bros, na so you dull so. Ofcourse, because theism is irrational and atheism rational.
Smh.

Alfa Seltzer:

It is telling that of all religions and theist beliefs in the world, the FSM belief is the only one you singled out as a mockery. This is a religion that is recognised in many countries.

In any case, if we are to argue about the existence of a creator, then you need to define what you mean by "a creator". A being? A substance? A chemical reaction? An energy source? What exactly? After that definition we can then see if it really exists. And moreover if it corresponds to any of the gods the theists are trying to force down our throats.

[size=18pt]Even if the FSM is a joke that was meant to mock theism, it doesn't mean that it is impossible. You see, there is no possible way you can prove that the FSM did not create the universe and everything in it. Is there?[/size]

Best post so far

Reyginus: What nonsense is this? Rubbish! You didn't notice how you sound.
Rey: Why do you think atheism is a rational position?
Alfa: Because you are holding an irrational position and atheism the default position.
Rey: (Shocked but swallows it). Do default positions transcend logic?
Alfa: Default positions are by nature logical.
Rey: What makes atheism as a default position logical?
Alfa: Because theism is irrational and atheism is rational.
Rey: Please make me understand. How is atheism rational.
Alfa: I already told you that as a default positions it is logical.
Rey: How do you mean logical?
Alfa: Bros, na so you dull so. Ofcourse, because theism is irrational and atheism rational.
Smh.

Here is the real conversation

Rey: why is atheism the default position
Alfa: because there is no reason or evidence to believe in God.
Rey: there is evidence for God
Alfa: show the evidence
Rey: YOU CANT PROVE THAT GOD DOESNT EXIST
Alfa: mumu

@Italo and co.

The simple act of rejecting a spurious claims is an act of rationality.
The simple act of dismissing a claim that is not backed by evidence is rational.

If for 6000 yrs of recorded human history, no single evidence has been produced to prove the existence of god, then the next logical and common sense thing to do would be to reject the claims, and thereafter, assert that in the absence of evidence, god does not exist: at least until such a time that the those holding the claim bring their proof.

How much more rational can an atheist be?

1. No one has ever seen or described god, So god probably does not exist.

2. Except for schizophrenics, no two or more people have ever heard or recorded the voice of god, so god probably does not exist.

3. No documents, no stone tablets, no temple inscriptions ,ancient or modern, has been proven to be the hand written words of god. Therefore,
god probably does not exist.

4. No space probes have ever detected an omni Omni extraterrestrial body in space that can be classified as god.

5. No experiment has been carried out to show the presence of god in the universe.

6. No amputees have been healed by prayers to god, no mountains have been moved by prayers to god, suffering in Nigerian has never abated
due to the megatons of prayers to god.

7. Jesus, supposed son of god, supposedly healed lepers but failed to leave behind a permanent cure for leprosy for future generation of humans.

8. People who believe in god have conflicting definitions and expectations of god, to the point that they even kill themselves to prove it.

9. Lest we forget, the idea of god and everything we think we know about god came from stone age men who did not even know that germs were the causes of diseases. Even Jesus, son of the all-knowing god, did not even know that germs were the causes of disease that he supposedly cured.

10. It is quite ludicrous for modern humans to be living on the false and blatantly ignorant ideas of stone age cavemen.

As for the question of who created the universe? No one created the universe.
As for how did the universe come about? We are still investigating the finer details. Stay tuned for scientific updates in the future.

Something must have caused it! So what? And therefore, let's call that something god?
If that's the way you are thinking, then you have just proven that god is a mental construct, an abstract idea.

To be honest, to say that someone who rejects an unproven idea is irrational is so silly and laughable.

I wonder how rational are all theists and Christians who reject the supremacy of Amadioha in Igbo mythology, or the Supremacy of Zeus, or the christian who reject the supremacy of Mohammed as the final and authentic prophet of God?.

Religion is laughable.

italo: @ Striktlymi, I think I've some very needed motivation. Thanks.

On the various kinds of Atheists, I get your point.

Cool!

mazaje:

All gods remain man made ideas. . .That is why there are many gods. . .belief is what makes god live, once people stop believing in gods they die off. . .Ra used to be a very powerful god in ancient Egypt. . .Many of the gods our ancestors worshiped are now dead after the Europeans and Arabs invaded our lands and forced us to accept their own version of gods. . .Gods remain a man made idea. . .FACT. . .

I see you still go about making empty claims with empty words.
This guy laughs in the face of ongoing evidences and even genuine evidences spoken about and recorded in recent history.

plaetton: @Italo and co.

The simple act of rejecting a spurious claims is an act of rationality.
The simple act of dismissing a claim that is not backed by evidence is rational.

Meaning it is rational to dismiss the claims of Atheism since they have no empirical evidence.

If it is rational to dismiss Atheism, then Atheism is irrational.

plaetton:
If for 6000 yrs of recorded human history, no single evidence has been produced to prove the existence of god, then the next logical and common sense thing to do would be to reject the claims, and thereafter, assert that in the absence of evidence, god does not exist: at least until such a time that the those holding the claim bring their proof.

You have no empirical evidence that God doesnt exist, yet you assert it. That is irrational. You always look to Theists for evidence for your belief. What would you say to an Agnostic who asks you to prove your claims. You would say "Theists cannot prove their claim?"

plaetton:
How much more rational can an atheist be?

1. No one has ever seen or described god, So god probably does not exist.

2. Except for schizophrenics, no two or more people have ever heard or recorded the voice of god, so god probably does not exist.

3. No documents, no stone tablets, no temple inscriptions ,ancient or modern, has been proven to be the hand written words of god. Therefore,
god probably does not exist.

4. No space probes have ever detected an omni Omni extraterrestrial body in space that can be classified as god.

5. No experiment has been carried out to show the presence of god in the universe.

6. No amputees have been healed by prayers to god, no mountains have been moved by prayers to god, suffering in Nigerian has never abated
due to the megatons of prayers to god.

7. Jesus, supposed son of god, supposedly healed lepers but failed to leave behind a permanent cure for leprosy for future generation of humans.

8. People who believe in god have conflicting definitions and expectations of god, to the point that they even kill themselves to prove it.

9. Lest we forget, the idea of god and everything we think we know about god came from stone age men who did not even know that germs were the causes of diseases. Even Jesus, son of the all-knowing god, did not even know that germs were the causes of disease that he supposedly cured.

10. It is quite ludicrous for modern humans to be living on the false and blatantly ignorant ideas of stone age cavemen.

You have no empirical evidence for much of what you said above. You just assert your assumptions as truth - without evidence.

plaetton:
As for the question of who created the universe? No one created the universe.
As for how did the universe come about? We are still investigating the finer details. Stay tuned for scientific updates in the future.

Something must have caused it! So what? And therefore, let's call that something god?
If that's the way you are thinking, then you have just proven that god is a mental construct, an abstract idea.

To be honest, to say that someone who rejects an unproven idea is irrational is so silly and laughable.

I wonder how rational are all theists and Christians who reject the supremacy of Amadioha in Igbo mythology, or the Supremacy of Zeus, or the christian who reject the supremacy of Mohammed as the final and authentic prophet of God?.

Religion is laughable.

You keep missing it. If you cannot provide empirical evidence for all your claims above (and you cant), you're just as irrational as you claim that Theists are for not providing empirical evidence for their claims.

Joshthefirst: I see you still go about making empty claims with empty words.
This guy laughs in the face of ongoing evidences and even genuine evidences spoken about and recorded in recent history.

Pls kindly cite both the ongoing and spoken about evidences in recorded in recent history.

Joshthefirst: I see you still go about making empty claims with empty words.
This guy laughs in the face of ongoing evidences and even genuine evidences spoken about and recorded in recent history.

I thought it was only me who noticed.

italo: Atheism is just as irrational and ignorant as it claims theism is.

Atheism has no empirical evidence to back its bogus claims: "God doesn't exist. God is a myth" yet it expects theists to believe its positions on God which is based on blind faith, not reason.

lol. This sounds like butthurt

I don't know why theists like saying that atheists have blind FAITH. Is this some kind of projection? No be your bible define faith as evidence of things NOT seen? Na wa o! No be una de believe wetin una no get evidence for?

Ok, as to this topic. . . I put it to you Italo that i don't believe in Yahweh, your god because i see no evidence that he exists. The only proof that can be given for him is found in the bible which is a very inconsistent and sometimes lying book written by ignorant ancient men. . . Also, the qualities exhibited by Yahweh have been shown to be contrary to what is being claimed by its adherents. . .

As for what/who Created/caused this universe, whoever claims to know has to show evidence for their claim or we won't take them serious. It is not enough to point to nature as evidence for creation, you have to show what you think the creator is and why we should take you serious. . .

This my good and proper Italo is rational scepticism and cannot be called 'blind faith'

@ Italo

You make me laugh.

Is faith rational?.
Many many Nl Christians have said it that faith is irrational ,and should not be expected to be .

Many times I have to remind myself that I engage in these types discussions for entertainment, because it is really really hard to believe that an educated person can make the kind of convoluted and absurd leaps in logic that you do.

I thought by now we would have seen empirical evidence from Atheists for their claims and beliefs.

NOTHING! ZERO!

Instead they are waiting on others to provide evidence of their own beliefs.

Why subject other creeds to the scrutiny your creed cannot stand up against?

#hypocrisy #irrational

italo: I thought by now we would have seen empirical evidence from Atheists for their claims and beliefs.

NOTHING! ZERO!

Instead they are waiting on others to provide evidence of their own beliefs.

Why subject other creeds to the scrutiny your creed cannot stand up against?

#hypocrisy #irrational

Were you paid by your diocese to troll atheists?

I cant believe the nonsense I have been reading from you.

Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. It is not sayin that there is no god. It is a simple disbelief.

Or if you are too foolish to understand that, just call me an agnostic atheist.

plaetton: @ Italo

You make me laugh.

Is faith rational?.
Many many Nl Christians have said it that faith is irrational ,and should not be expected to be .

Many times I have to remind myself that I engage in these types discussions for entertainment, because it is really really hard to believe that an educated person can make the kind of convoluted and absurd leaps in logic that you do.

If faith is not rational, Atheism is not rational.

It relies on blind faith, not reason supported by empirical evidence.

italo: I thought by now we would have seen empirical evidence from Atheists for their claims and beliefs.

NOTHING! ZERO!

Instead they are waiting on others to provide evidence of their own beliefs.

Why subject other creeds to the scrutiny your creed cannot stand up against?

#hypocrisy #irrational

LOL

plaetton:

Pls kindly cite both the ongoing and spoken about evidences in recorded in recent history.

what's the point?
Your heart is hardened. If I give you the records of people like smith wigglesworth(who actually healed amputees and raised the dead) and kenneth E. hagin and countless others, you wouldn't believe me.
You and mazaje will have to wait for God to heal your amputee neighbour or heal the sick before your very eyes, which will probably NOT happen. God is not your houseboy. God resists the proud and scoffers and gives grace to the humble. He will keep revealing himself and changing the lives and saving those who believe and seek him diligently.

But the words of the proud are an abomination before God.

He won't even mind you self. But we will still preach the message. And we will still tell you that all men shall stand before God in judgement. Your sin cries out to God and provokes his wrath. God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Logicboy03:
Were you paid by your diocese to troll atheists?

I cant believe the nonsense I have been reading from you.

Atheism is simply the disbelief in god. It is not sayin that there is no god. It is a simple disbelief.

Or if you are too foolish to understand that, just call me an agnostic atheist.

Allow me to talk to those who are trying to pass across their arguments in a civil manner.

I dont think insults and ridicule are tools for logic.

Thank you.

Joshthefirst: what's the point?
Your heart is hardened. If I give you the records of people like smith wigglesworth([size=18pt]who actually healed amputees and raised the dead[/size]) and kenneth E. hagin and countless others, you wouldn't believe me.
You and mazaje will have to wait for God to heal your amputee neighbour or heal the sick before your very eyes, which will probably NOT happen. God is not your houseboy. God resists the proud and scoffers and gives grace to the humble. He will keep revealing himself and changing the lives and saving those who believe and seek him with a pure heart.

But the words of the proud are an abomination before God.

He won't even mind you self. But we will still preach the message. And we will still tell you that all men shall stand before God in judgement. Your sin cries out to God and provokes his wrath. God commands all men everywhere to repent.

italo:

1. Atheists do make positive claims e.g God is only a myth.

Wrong.

All we are asking is that you religious folks show us some evidence to back up the unbelievable things you claim. Until such evidence appears we don't believe you. You can't claim that you're a policeman and expect people to believe just because they can't disprove it. The default position is not to believe until you see a badge or a uniform or an ID card.

Capisce?

2. Whoever said only positive statements should be defended?

Common sense said so. Otherwise you'd just be like the boy asking someone to prove that he doesn't have the unseen baseball that he just claimed he had.

If I said Evil Brain is NOT normal (no disrespect), wouldnt I be expected to defend it?

Yes. I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion. Show me the relevant posts or any other evidence you have that I'm not normal, otherwise STFU. He who alleges must prove. Are you getting how this works?

They dont just point that out. They go as far as asserting that my claims are false without any evidence for/against my claims.

Your claims are false because you don't have any evidence to back them up. If you had any, you'd have shown us by now. The reason you're whining about stubborn atheists on the internet is because you have no proof to shut them up with.

italo:

Allow me to talk to those who are trying to pass across their arguments in a civil manner.

I dont think insults and ridicule are tools for logic.

Thank you.

I think he is saying out loud, what most of us are thinking in silence.

Mr Troll: lol. This sounds like butthurt

I don't know why theists like saying that atheists have blind FAITH. Is this some kind of projection? No be your bible define faith as evidence of things NOT seen? Na wa o! No be una de believe wetin una no get evidence for?

Ok, as to this topic. . . I put it to you Italo that i don't believe in Yahweh, your god because i see no evidence that he exists. The only proof that can be given for him is found in the bible which is a very inconsistent and sometimes lying book written by ignorant ancient men. . . Also, the qualities exhibited by Yahweh have been shown to be contrary to what is being claimed by its adherents. . .

As for what/who Created/caused this universe, whoever claims to know has to show evidence for their claim or we won't take them serious. It is not enough to point to nature as evidence for creation, you have to show what you think the creator is and why we should take you serious. . .

This my good and proper Italo is rational scepticism and cannot be called 'blind faith'

This thread is not for Theists to prove their claims.

It is to show that Atheists cant prove their claim with empirical evidence, yet they claim that anyone who believes something without empirical evidence is irrational.

That makes Atheism irrational.

Alfa Seltzer:

I think he is saying out loud, what most of us are thinking in silence.

Think about the empirical evidence for your belief in silence.

Alfa Seltzer:

see what I said? Please find out from records and stop laughing.

Nwokem kee kwanu? Kee ka oru di?

italo:

This thread is not for Theists to prove their claims.

It is to show that Atheists cant prove their claim with empirical evidence, yet they claim that anyone who believes something without empirical evidence is irrational.

That makes Atheism irrational.

Which claim can atheists not prove? Please. A positive claim. Not a disbelief of a previous claim.

Joshthefirst: what's the point?
Your heart is hardened. If I give you the records of people like smith wigglesworth(who actually healed amputees and raised the dead) and kenneth E. hagin and countless others, you wouldn't believe me.
You and mazaje will have to wait for God to heal your amputee neighbour or heal the sick before your very eyes, which will probably NOT happen. God is not your houseboy. God resists the proud and scoffers and gives grace to the humble. He will keep revealing himself and changing the lives and saving those who believe and seek him with a pure heart.

But the words of the proud are an abomination before God.

He won't even mind you self. But we will still preach the message. And we will still tell you that all men shall stand before God in judgement. Your sin cries out to God and provokes his wrath. God commands all men everywhere to repent.

Remember your god as presented does NOT exist. . Why will an all powerful god that can do all things rely on men to spread his word for him? Its only because such god is a man made idea, your religion is nothing but following another man's culture. . .When did any god tell you anything about himself?. . .Is it not the words of men that you keep deluding yourself to be the word of god because you have been indoctrinated with them?. . .If you were born into a mulsim family in Qatar you would have been telling us how Jesus was not crucified and how god does not have a son etc. . .Your god is a creation of ancient men and their superstitions. . .

Joshthefirst: see what I said? Please find out from records and stop laughing.

Nwokem kee kwanu? Kee ka oru di?

Chai. Which records?

Which oru? He whom Satan has blessed needs no more oru (sufferage) in this life.

plaetton: @Italo and co.

The simple act of rejecting a spurious claims is an act of rationality.
The simple act of dismissing a claim that is not backed by evidence is rational.

If for 6000 yrs of recorded human history, no single evidence has been produced to prove the existence of god, then the next logical and common sense thing to do would be to reject the claims, and thereafter, assert that in the absence of evidence, god does not exist: at least until such a time that the those holding the claim bring their proof.

How much more rational can an atheist be?

1. No one has ever seen or described god, So god probably does not exist.

2. Except for schizophrenics, no two or more people have ever heard or recorded the voice of god, so god probably does not exist.

3. No documents, no stone tablets, no temple inscriptions ,ancient or modern, has been proven to be the hand written words of god. Therefore,
god probably does not exist.

4. No space probes have ever detected an omni Omni extraterrestrial body in space that can be classified as god.

5. No experiment has been carried out to show the presence of god in the universe.

6. No amputees have been healed by prayers to god, no mountains have been moved by prayers to god, suffering in Nigerian has never abated
due to the megatons of prayers to god.

7. Jesus, supposed son of god, supposedly healed lepers but failed to leave behind a permanent cure for leprosy for future generation of humans.

8. People who believe in god have conflicting definitions and expectations of god, to the point that they even kill themselves to prove it.

9. Lest we forget, the idea of god and everything we think we know about god came from stone age men who did not even know that germs were the causes of diseases. Even Jesus, son of the all-knowing god, did not even know that germs were the causes of disease that he supposedly cured.

10. It is quite ludicrous for modern humans to be living on the false and blatantly ignorant ideas of stone age cavemen.

As for the question of who created the universe? No one created the universe.
As for how did the universe come about? We are still investigating the finer details. Stay tuned for scientific updates in the future.

Something must have caused it! So what? And therefore, let's call that something god?
If that's the way you are thinking, then you have just proven that god is a mental construct, an abstract idea.

To be honest, to say that someone who rejects an unproven idea is irrational is so silly and laughable.

I wonder how rational are all theists and Christians who reject the supremacy of Amadioha in Igbo mythology, or the Supremacy of Zeus, or the christian who reject the supremacy of Mohammed as the final and authentic prophet of God?.

Religion is laughable.

Could I give my definition of God? It is way different from what the Christians say

Alfa Seltzer:

Which claim can atheists not prove? Please. A positive claim. Not a disbelief of a previous claim.

Why are you attaching conditions?

Are you admitting that you make claims and have beliefs you cannot prove with empirical evidence?

italo:

If faith is not rational, Atheism is not rational.

It relies on blind faith, not reason supported by empirical evidence.

The empirical evidence you seek is that all religions and gods are a creation of men that is why there are different gods and religions. . Have you ever seen any god create any religion?. . .Point to one religion and god that is not a creation of men, until you do then I really do not know what you are seeking. . .

italo:

Why are you attaching conditions?

Are you admitting that you make claims and have beliefs you cannot prove with empirical evidence?

A disbelief of a claim is not a claim. If you have a claim made by atheists, say it.

Logicboy03:



Here is the real conversation

Rey: why is atheism the default position
Alfa: because there is no reason or evidence to believe in God.
Rey: there is evidence for God
Alfa: show the evidence
Rey: YOU CANT PROVE THAT GOD DOESNT EXIST
Alfa: mumu

As usual, always holding unto the wrong side of an argument. And very illogical rebuttal you have up there.
This is the reason I think that atheists here are very dull. Why do you guys find it so hard to defend atheism without telling us how ridiculous theism is? Is there no case for atheism?

mazaje:

Remember your god as presented does NOT exist. . Why will an all powerful god that can do all things rely on men to spread his word for him? Its only because such god is a man made idea, your religion is nothing but following another man's culture. . .When did any god tell you anything about himself?. . .Is it not the words of men that you keep deluding yourself to be the word of god because you have been indoctrinated with them?. . .If you were born into a mulsim family in Qatar you would have been telling us how Jesus was not crucified and how god does not have a son etc. . .Your god is a creation of ancient men and their superstitions. . .

go to quatar and see for yourself. This does not change what I said. You make empty claims with empty words.

We, the real deal, the message spreaders are Gods ambssadors on earth. The power of God backs us. God is not going to change just to fulfill your selfish sentiments. Smh. Even in seemingly and totally dark regions, God, true God, almighty God, reveals himself inspite of mens sin and ignorance through his son.

And as we rise in revival, the world will be engulfed with the power of the message just before judgement. Watch and see the power of God.