in between news of Nigeria's poverty, and news about Nigeria's wealth, one hardly knows what to think.

on one day, its people vamooosing to greener pastures and raining curses on the country. On another its people in Nigeria breaking boundaries of wealth.

na wa oh.

@Davidylan,

Poor analogy - did Mary levy her neighbours to buy the oil of anointing?

You keep dancing around in circles. The Bible declares that preachers of the Gospel must be supported by the Gospel. They have done nothing wrong by receiving offerings, besides this jet is not a personal property, it is for the Ministry. Tell me, when last did you obey Galatians 6:6 - Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

Of what purpose is the private jet? How does it glorify God? Is Roger Federer's private gulfstream also for the purpose of the gospel?

Of what use is your laptop? how does it glorify God? I can't believe you are asking these questions. You still haven't balanced your zeal with knowledge.

Brother . . . please wake me up from my slumber - when did your church become a business conglomerate with a CEO?

Where did I say the Church was a busness conglomerate. This is why Jesus declared that the children of this world are wiser than the Children of God in their generation. While the world will use common sense to achieve their set goal, the church is busy making excuses why they should not use theirs. Tell me, don't you think Apostle Paul would have done more if he had a jet than if he didn't?

How did the apostles reach their world with the gospel?
How did the early apostles pen the words you quote today without the computer, no word processors, no biros, no paper as you have it today, no post offices, no copying machines, no private jets . . .

I wonder why you use all those facilities today when your Lord Jesus never did. Your understanding of the Gospel must mean that you must deny yourslef of everything that Jesus denied Himself of. My understanding is that He denied Himself so I can have those things - go figure!

This generation will have no excuse on the day of judgement.

You have a lot of explaining to do for owning a laptop when some other people lack Bibles.

@Davidylan,

While our villages are in dire need of men of God, when our peasants in the hinterlands can not get their hands on a copy of the bible in their own language, when our farmers living in remote jungles have yet to set their eyes on a man of God . . . our "pastors" are too busy buying jets to "spread the gospel" among the very people who brought the gospel to us in the first place.

I wish you will lead by example and pack your bags now on your way to igbotiti. I can assure you that RCCG has branches in villages and interland your "butter" feet will never step on. Why not go sell your laptop and give the money to a Bible translating society. Better still, why not switch from studying whatever it is you are studying now and go learn these languages so you could provide the translation forst hand. I wish people will judge others the way they judge themselves.

Is Adeboye "spreading the gospel" in London? they heard it well before us . . . start from the poor villagers in Yobe state who don't even know a Christ once lived, if you noticed . . . you don't need a jet to get there.

And you will need a jet to come to naija and a donkey to take you from Murtala International Airport to Yobe State. I will be more than happy to provide you with honey and wild locust for your daily refreshing.

Tayo-D:

@Davidylan,
I can assure you that RCCG has branches in villages and interland your feet will never step on.

True dat

Tayo-D:

@Davidylan,
Every single member of the church? You gotta be kidding me. The Bible is very clear: "if any would not work, neither should he eat", and "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel". So why would the Church sustain a lifestyle that makes you worse than an infidel? that is why I said you fail to read the scriptures scripturally. You go off on a tangent without thinking about how it works with other scriptures.

You're just fond of quoting scriptures upside down. Acts 4:35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Notice the use of the word "need" there. It is clearly not the same as the apostles distributing unto every man according as he WANTED!

Phil 4:19But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Was the "need" used in Phil 4 refering to lazy men who refused to work? It is simply an acknowledgement that even though you work there would be times of need. This is not advocating the church sustain the lifestyle of lazy men! The apostles  and other christians would never have had any land to sell if they were not working!

Tayo-D:

On the one hand you said this: "1. At no time did i claim the church provided for the "daily living" of every member.
2. At no time did i advocate that today's church is responsible for providing the for the daily upkeep of the congregation."; and agian you are advocating what you have earlier dismissed.

Do you need me to write it down in yoruba for you to understand what i meant there?

Tayo-D:

God is not the author of confusion, he will not give you bread if you refuse to work.

Was it not the same God who said ASK AND YE SHALL RECIEVE? Was that promise meant only to those who were able to comfortably sustain themselves with their jobs?

Tayo-D:

And for the poor, what they need is not money, it is the Gospel

Your CEOs have so much gospel that now all they need is money? Uncle, this statement makes my heart bleed for the church . . . i cant believe that so called christians have this mindset.

What were the people Christ was talking about when He said this - Matthew 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink. 43 I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me.

Where the poor among them supposed to just "eat" the gospel? Why did the apostles bring money to "distribute to EVERY MAN according to their need"?

Tayo-D:

and the Gospel declares that it is only those who give and sow that shall receive and reap.

this is a fraudulent gospel. End of!

Tayo-D:

Again you continue to use scriptures that are irrelevant to the topic so as to make yourself look good. Of course the poor are blessed, and the way to be more blessed is to give rather than receive. If I meet a poor person today, the first thing I'll have that person do is to bless someone who is poorer than himself. That and receiving the Gospel is the first step towards prosperity.

Making myself look good or bad is not the issue here, pls desist from taking this personal and face the topic squarely.

*posted by mistake, modified cuz it cant be deleted*

@Davidylan,

Has anyone ever looked at a map of Paul's missionary journey?
Let me remind you that this man who in today's geography compassed at least 3 continents did so with no private jet at all.

Perhaps he would have reached all the continents if he had a jet. Perhaps he would not have suffered that ship-wreck if he went by air instead of the only option he had - by ship. Can you tell us what Paul needed for missionary work that he failed to use simply because it does not fit in with the Davidylan theology?

all disciples are not busy using sales pitches to steal money from the poor that they might live in abundance.

Tell me, would you prefer the constant travel to seating your behind at home enjoying the company of your loved ones? I tell you, I'll take the comfort at being at home with my family anytime than hob-nobbing around the world in the most expensive jet. It takes those who don't do much travel to think the way you do.

The apostles prefered to sell their lands to help the poor rather than use them to build the largest synagogues in Israel.

One thing you forget is that for each land they sowed, they reaped "more lands". Like I said, your land today is your laptop - go sell it and bring the money to the Apostle's feet. And don't forget to clear you bank account while doing the same.

Elijah did not leave the widow with "prayers" and "promises". Christ blessed and fed 5000 . . . how many have your CEOs left better than they met them?

Come to think of it, will the congregation keep growing if all they are experiencially getting is this so-called "prayers" and "promises"?

poor analogy . . . i afford all that i have by the sweat of my brow and the blessings of the Lord who has undeservedly chosen to bless me. I did not con the starving people of Darfur with empty promises and false doctrine to purchase my laptop. I have not eaten today by taking money from the average naija man in the name of Christ.

You don't get it do you? Those who gave up their lands did it not because they got easy money. If you think it is so easy to get money from people why don't you go do it? Who do you think is blessing this people - Satan? These are freewill offerings and not 419, so i really don't get your point.

not again! I just lost an entire rebuttal.

@Davidylan,

this is a fraudulent gospel. End of!

Here you go again. This is the same line of argument we had some time ago where I had to show you what you claimed is not in the Bible. While you humbly accepted that you were wrong, you have simply gone back to the same default stance which has no biblical basis. I don't have the time to waste discussing a very clear biblical injuction.

In any case, here's my stance:

1. The poor you will always have with you.
2. The Gospel must be preached by any means and every way available.
3. Those who preach the gospel must be sustained by the Gospel.
4. The church is only meant to provide for the needs of widows and orphans - the NT is clear on how to determine those to help.
5. You make yourself a hypocrite when you demand from people what you do not practice yourself.

not again!   I just lost an entire rebuttal.

Perhaps God is subtely telling you to think more before you post 

is the 20 million in naira or dollars sef? My eye keeps seeing naira but the title says dollars.

maybe the paper got wrong information sha.

Why do we have everything upside down in spite of the acute religiousness, in Nigeria?

I read people's comments on pm news, and this is one of the amazing ones there:

I PRAY TODAY THAT GOD ALMIGHTY GIVE ME APPLE OPPORTUNITIES “TO SO SEED” IN THIS PROJECT. AMEN.

by some guy called Mic (wonder if he's a Nler).

Shouldnt he be praying for God to help him "sow seeds" towards his education, or at least something that will improve his life in a practical way?

i tire o.

I think it has to do with setting prioroties right. RCCG has come of age. they are not a poor church like the one back there is the book of acts someone cited.
The truth which many don't knw is that these men of God are called of God and as such this world's riches means nothing to them. So to look at them the way u do any worldly fellow or thieving pplititian is totally unfair.
The ministry is growing there is urgency for the gospel to be preached everywhere.
Money is a tool, no true christian will worship money for it is a servant and God is making sure that in these last days it will serve its purpose.
You critics havent seen anything yet, Prepare to talk.
Christ Embassy wch gave out over 2 million free copies of the world acclaimed Rhapsody of realities devotional to mark Nigeria's independence will this yr give 14 million come October 1st! I say money is a servant!!! Heeeee, glory! i think dt is valued at about hmm, N2.1bil.
I want to believe they r led of the Spirit @ RCCG.
CONGRATULATIONS RCCG!

@Post

Adeboye again?

What next would he shop for after a jet?

How is it a necessity of life to acquire a private jet?

Vanity!!

I do think 20million dollars is a lot of money.

but to think about it on the other side,
its really a drop in the ocean of Gods provision.

IF the jet is deemed necessary i dont see the need for condemnation.

its not a frivolous thing, they surely didnt wake up one morning and say

yay! Lets buy us some JET!!!


When Kenneth Copeland came to Nigeria,
he came with his jet and helicopter,
parked the jet at the airport
took the military styled helicopter to Canaanland,

fast movement as quick as possible, spreading the gospel
everywhere and anywhere.

IF THERE IS A NEED, IT SHOULD BE MET

For those making "un-informed" statements about the $20 million dollars jet, i guess they lack knowledge. RCCG is one of the very few churches that is being run in a very transparent and efficient way. You cant see a pastor spending or using the church's funds as he wants as their is a very strict reporting and accountability lines in place.
The church has mission fields in every African country, Eritrea, Angola,Mozambique, Syechelles, name it. Does it not make sense to have a jet to go to all these places?
Besides, are the members paying their tithes and offering complaining? Why not hold Yar Adua and the governors responsible for the poor instead of laying it at the feet of those doing God's work? It is not for the church to go about doling out money.

@davidylan
Keep up the good work, i read thruough al your posts on this thread and it was as if i was reading what i wrote. But the truth is that people like your friend tayo would always stand the truth on it's head just to justify what is unjustifyable.

i must say i dont really know what to say,i was watching the man tb joshua programme on ait out of boredom last sunday and i saw the charity stuffs the man and the church were involved in,i was struck with awe and wonder why other churches dont do the same thing, honestly it will help the society a lot more, i want to believe the newspaper are just being sensational because pastor adeboye is a cut above the rest and wouldnt involve himself in these sort of frivolities

i don't see anything wrong wt him buying a jet,maybe there is a reason for it

not sure though,but i heard d man really suffered in life before he made it(like i said  heard)

so now that hes made let him eat his money

when it comes to charity work,im still looking for pastors that will beat adeboye and oyedepo to it,adeboye has got a good heart

like someone said hes reaping what he sowed,he sowed wt tears and reaped wt joy

when he was suffering nobody talked ,now that hes made some r complaining about what he uses his money for

im not a member of d R.C.C.G and i don't think i will ever be a member,but i respect adeboye

This na the jet oooh

Cessna Citation X

20m dollar something

kadijen:

i don't see anything wrong wt him buying a jet,maybe there is a reason for it

not sure though,but i heard d man really suffered in life before he made it(like i said heard)

so now that hes made let him eat his money

when it comes to charity work,im still looking for pastors that will beat adeboye and oyedepo to it,adeboye has got a good heart

like someone said hes reaping what he sowed,he sowed wt tears and reaped wt joy

when he was suffering nobody talked ,now that hes made some r complaining about what he uses[b] his money for[/b]im not a member of d R.C.C.G and i don't think i will ever be a member,but i respect adeboye

His money huh? I thought it was the church's money collected under the pretext that they are collecting it for God. I donn't know about Adeboye but going by the conduct of Winner's chapel and associtated businesses charity is far from their dictionaries.

See Engine

See plane ooh, now this is what im talking about

KunleOshob:

His money huh? [b]I thought it was the church's money collected under the pretext that they are collecting it for God. [/b]I donn't know about Adeboye but going by the conduct of Winner's chapel and associtated businesses charity is far from their dictionaries.

u seem to have forgotten that some people sow seeds in his life,he might even have some other businesses dat d church or d members in it did not start up for him

we all see things from diff angles anyway,but i still maintain to d fact that both adeboye and oyedepo r into charity work

so whichever way i respect them both,even though im not a member of their church

olukunle:

Why not hold Yar Adua and the governors responsible for the poor instead of laying it at the feet of those doing God's work?

Adeboye, given his clout, rather than do what you have just counselled others to do is more interested in mingling with them. 28 years in Christ's (?) ministry and claimed annointing and church growth, what has his message, life and teachings contributed to national or even his local development

kadijen:

but i still maintain to d fact that both adeboye and oyedepo r into charity work

Do you know of such systematic and meaningful charity work If you do why don't you list them or better still refer us to their web sites where such are stated? Last time I checked Oyedepo church's web site, the page on charity work read worse than a politician's manifesto - long on generic promises, nothing, absolutely nothing on verifiable achievements.

@kadijen
I really don't want to debate this issue of Adeboye who is a man of God i respect very much. Even then my i know deep down in my heart that no genuine man of God would engage in such frivoulities. Infact i even doubt the authenticity of the story. I don't think Adeboye would do such. On the issue of charity, that should be the central focus of our churches (i.e most of the money they collect should be used for chariable causes) unfortunately today in most of our churches Charity is just being paid lip service to, they hardly do any thing charitable and even when they do, itis very minimal.

anonimi:


Do you know of such systematic and meaningful charity work If you do why don't you list them or better still refer us to their web sites where such are stated? Last time I checked Oyedepo church's web site, the page on charity work read worse than a politician's manifesto - long on generic promises, nothing, absolutely nothing on verifiable achievements.

my dear ,if u think all his charity work(i mean virtually every charity work ,hes involved in ,both in d past and now) will be posted on his website ,then you're mistaken

@kunleoshob

i get u from your own point of view,but like i said we all see things from diff angles,d way u might see things ,is not d same way i might see mine,whichever way we drop d debate

@ Gamine;

I think its hightime someone shut you up. I have been reading a lot of your posts and they hardly make any sense.

You said;

but to think about it on the other side,
its really a drop in the ocean of Gods provision.
IF the jet is deemed necessary i don't see the need for condemnation.

You are always thinking about it on the other side.

Kilon sele?

Shut ti ye up ni?

kilon so?

My posts hardly make sense and you read em?

Choose one please.

About thinking on the other side
yes yes yes, what problem do you have with it.

And don't think another ID will hide u

@ Gamine;

You said;

When Kenneth Copeland came to Nigeria,
he came with his jet and helicopter,
parked the jet at the airport
took the military styled helicopter to Canaanland,

fast movement as quick as possible, spreading the gospel
everywhere and anywhere.

I can see that Copeland is really spreading the gospel. Someone that preaches that God is the biggest failure sure is preaching the gospel. He has preached a lot of times that we don't need Jesus anymore to get to God. We can pray to God directly.

Pls, tell me how he is preaching the gospel.

You do know what sarcasm means

@Tgirl4real,

I can see that Copeland is really spreading the gospel. Someone that preaches that God is the biggest failure sure is preaching the gospel. He has preached a lot of times that we don't need Jesus anymore to get to God. We can pray to God directly.

Please, tell me how he is preaching the gospel.

go back and listened to whatever message you think you heard Copeland say the above and you will find out that you quoted him out of context. Kenneth Copeland is my Pastor's pastor and he viits my Church not less than twice a year with his wife. His message this past year has being on nothing but Love and his emphasis remains on Jesus Christ.

@ Tayo-D;

Yeah right!!! Till he leads you right into the claws of the antichrist.

Try do a google search on Kenneth Copeland and you will see enough evidence that he is not one of us. If you claim is your pastor's pastor then himself and your pastor are both heretics. Period!!!

Please go study Matt 24. The end-times are here.

abeg make i google d kenneth copeland now sef,and see wt my two eyes

lol.