Alwaystrue: We may all be saying the same thing but differently:


@frosbel, we are saying the same thing in a way. All breathe returns to God at death. Is it this same breathe (spirit) injected for the resurrection of all for judgement? It means the spirit will still be tied to the soul that will be judged...for all will have a spiritual body. That was what I was trying to bring out.

ayoku777:

But if the spirit is the breath, then animals have spirits too? Coz they have breath

And then which part will go to hell. Coz that is frosbel's seeming error, that all spirits return to God.

ayoku777:

But if the spirit is the breath, then animals have spirits too? Coz they have breath

And then which part will go to hell. Coz that is frosbel's seeming error, that all spirits return to God.

shdemidemi:

The joke is on the devil, he is the greatest fool. God uses the devil to pan out all he had foretold from the beginning. We have the beginning in Genesis, we have the end in Revelation. The devil cannot distort it, he wld only play his part to fulfil all God had foretold.

Common bookmark, it is clearly written thr..

We saw how Peter fell flat on his face, but Christ is saying when you are converted, strengthen others around you...Satan would always need the counsel of Heaven before he comes to you.

The master was leaving, Peter was more of the next to continue from where the master stopped. He had to be prepared for future use. If Peter had to be prepared for future use, then the test would be necessary.

It therefore means Jesus needed a Judas to betray him for the intended future purposes (the reason why He came into planet earth). Peter also needed someone to help him mature and learn, the only one that could be used for the process was the devil.


If you don't want a test today or you constantly pray against it(no adversity/adversary), you are more or less praying against growth in all ramifications.

Alwaystrue:

That is why I often qualified spirit, breadth and life. God breathed into man, or breathed His spirit into man is proof we are created in God's image. So the breathe plants and animals have isn't the same breathe (spirit), God breathed into man to make him living indeed. Our spirit is created in God's image as well. Animals are not created like that.

Boomark:

You have not told me your stand. Is God the one telling the devil to destroy people even those who are His according to Gods will or is the devil just roaming about looking for whom to devour?

And we believers also groan, even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory, for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering. We, too, wait with eager hope for the day when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children, including the new bodies he has promised us.

English Standard Version
And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

New American Standard Bible
And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Boomark:

whose councel did satan sought when he dragged the body of Moses with God? Whose counsel was it that instructed him to war against angels of God? To resist God's answered prayers to Daniel?

So if I need to grow, God will send the devil to me to tempt me?

ayoku777:

Its not a ridiculous point of view. Scripture actually shows that it is possible for God to judge and even destroy the body because of sin, and yet the spirit is saved.

1Cor 5v5 -to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.

And this was an unrepentant fornicator in the corinthian church. Question is how can the spirit of an unrepentant fornicator be saved on the Lord's day? The answer is in the next chapter of the book.

1Cor 6v18 -Flee fornication. EVERY SIN that a man doeth is without THE BODY but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his OWN BODY.

So EVERY SIN a christian commits is either WITHOUT or AGAINST his BODY; NOT his spirit. So it is scripturally true and possible to have sin in your body and your spirit is still righeous and justified.

Romans 8v10 -But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of SIN, your spirits are alive because of RIGHTEOUSNESS (RSV)

Romans 8v10 But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt,the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you]. (AMP)

So its scriptural that sin in the body of a believer does not neutralize or revoke the imputed righteousness in his spirit.

Personally, I believe there is only one sin that can revoke imputed righteouness; and that is the sin of not believing in the death and resurrection of Christ. That is the sin against the Spirit (Matt 12v31) and the sin unto (spiritual) death (1John 5v16). Righteousness is by faith and unrighteousness is by unbelief.

If a believer has not committed that sin, his spirit is still justified and righteous. Every other sin makes a believer a carnal christian, but unbelief makes one an antichrist (1John 2v22). Every other sin attracts rebuke, chastisment, judgment and even destruction, but unbelief is the only sin that results in condemnation and spiritual death.

ayoku777:

Thanks, but I'm not really even into the plants animal stuff. Its actually a distraction. The issue that led into all this is about salvation (instant and/or progressive). Asin, which part of us is a new creation in Christ now? Are we saved in part (spirit, then soul and body) or no one is even saved yet. It is whoever 'makes it' to the end?

These are the issues. And I think I'm getting it gradually. Thanks

shdemidemi:

The greatest weapon of the devil is deception, asides that he is more or less useless. The bible says "all things (meaning every evil, every good and every bad) work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

We tend to believe anything unpleasant to the body is devil and the pleasant one is God. But God is saying the sufferings of today can't be compared to the glory to come when we eventually leave this world. God subjected the world to futility, so, even we as Christians can HOPE for the redemption of our body.

God is not promising you comfort in this world anyways, that is not to say you can't be comfortable. You are here on a mission and that is what you are expected to focus on and not the distraction of what you think the devil is doing or not doing.




Going back to your post, God can use anyone including the devil to bring about His Will as long as He takes the glory at the end. Example, if God will take glory from my pain, the pain will come my way some how.

One thing the devil cannot touch is your spirit/soul.

You are going totally off key bro. Rephrase those questions if you would.

Boomark:

I want to know your stand before you start giving explanations. Who do you think is the cause of the evil suffered by both Christian and non-Christians? The suffering must not be a mild one. Consider the type that can overtake, brutalize, destabilize, and 'deathlize' a child of God without mercy.

Romans 5:3

We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance.

3 Moreover [let us also be full of joy now!] let us exult and triumph in our troubles and rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that pressure and affliction and hardship produce patient and unswerving endurance.
4 And endurance (fortitude) develops maturity of [c]character (approved faith and [d]tried integrity). And character [of this sort] produces [the habit of] [e]joyful and confident hope of eternal salvation.

Alwaystrue:

One thing is certain, we learn new things daily.
I see the heart as the dwelling place of the Spirit; the mind houses the soul and the body camps the flesh.
We are given new hearts/spirits when we believe Ezekiel 36:26-27; Jer. 24:7; Romans 10:10. Our hearts gets renewed and it is the heart that holds the emotions, sorrow, pain, hope, joy, love, the fruit of the spirit. The bible says guard your heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life. The spirit is what gives life and the Holy Spirit bears witness in our spirit that we are children of God.

The mind is the great battle field where the intellect, memories, knowledge, thoughts are. That is why Paul says we should think on good things per Philipians and bring every thought to the obedience of Christ for the mind feeds the heart. The mind can be fed by the flesh, what we see, hear, taste, feel, smell (Ephesians 2:3) or we allow our clean heart where the Spirit of God resides to feed it.

Th flesh is so hard to put under subjection but we can do that with a strong spirit and soul till the body's messages to the soul and spirit are processed in line with the word of God.

This is where working out salvation comes in. Since we have a new heart and spirit through being in Christ I Cor. 5:17; do we leave it or guard it so that the flesh does not overcome it. Our heart holds the issues of life, since we have been quickened with Jesus, we need to ensure it remains so by letting the same mind of Christ be in us and letting the word of Christ dwell in us richly Phil. 2:5-6; Col. 3:16. This is what will ensure the heart is well guarded and the body carries out actions correctly due to the right heart and mind.

ayoku777:

Partly agree with you sha. But I believe that the heart is the store house of our spirits, while our mind is the store house of our soul. At the new birth we are given a new spirit and a new heart and we are also given the Holy spirit. And flesh is both the lust that originates in the soul and the sin it becomes in the body

Then I also believe our spirit is a person just as the Holy Spirit is a breath and a person. The Holy spirit is breath (John 20v22) but he's also a person, he sees, he talks, he feels and he acts. Our spirit is also like that, it is a person. Our spirit can pray (1Cor 14v14) it can bear witness (Rom 8v16) and it is conscious and aware (1Cor 2v11) and rigtheous (Rom 8v10). When you study this passages, you will see how the human spirit is a person just like the Holy spirit. Infact our spirit is the new creation that is born again, not the soul or body, it is the one the Holy spirit bears witness with as being the child of God not our soul. The soul gets reformed and the body gets redeemed progressively

shdemidemi:

The reason for sufferings is because God made it so...

It does not mater how emotional we get as humans, God has promised us a better place at redemption.




If God really want to use you, He can take away all you think you have or represent so you look up and put your trust in Him. Some are deceived by their money, some have false hopes in their husband, parent, job. God can take any of these things from you to get your attention. We must know that some troubles or mishaps we go through are God ordained for our spiritual growth, praying against such test is like praying against the will of God.

God says endure hardness as a soldier of Christ, why and how will I endure hardness if there isn't a test from any source?

Boomark:

My brother, the Angels in heaven are not suffering not to talk of enduring it and they are perfect. We are looking at the source of our problems not the benefits it gives some while some fall away completely because of it.

Am glad you say everything is God's will. So tell us, when everything was perfect and lucifer was singing to the glory of God, who made lucifer to sin and who brought so much wickedness into a perfect world?

PLEASE FOCUS on the bolded question.

Boomark:

SMH!!! For Bid...
His spirit which was save instantly will go to heaven while the soul which could not make it will be in purgatory and the body will be in hell.

ayoku777:

Its not a ridiculous point of view. Scripture actually shows that it is possible for God to judge and even destroy the body because of sin, and yet the spirit is saved.

1Cor 5v5 -to deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit MAY BE SAVED in the day of the Lord Jesus.

And this was an unrepentant fornicator in the corinthian church. Question is how can the spirit of an unrepentant fornicator be saved on the Lord's day? The answer is in the next chapter of the book.

1Cor 6v18 -Flee fornication. EVERY SIN that a man doeth is without THE BODY but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his OWN BODY.

So EVERY SIN a christian commits is either WITHOUT or AGAINST his BODY; NOT his spirit. So it is scripturally true and possible to have sin in your body and your spirit is still righeous and justified.

Romans 8v10 -But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of SIN, your spirits are alive because of RIGHTEOUSNESS (RSV)

Romans 8v10 But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt,the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you]. (AMP)

So its scriptural that sin in the body of a believer does not neutralize or revoke the imputed righteousness in his spirit.

Personally, I believe there is only one sin that can revoke imputed righteouness; and that is the sin of not believing in the death and resurrection of Christ. That is the sin against the Spirit (Matt 12v31) and the sin unto (spiritual) death (1John 5v16). Righteousness is by faith and unrighteousness is by unbelief.

If a believer has not committed that sin, his spirit is still justified and righteous. Every other sin makes a believer a carnal christian, but unbelief makes one an antichrist (1John 2v22). Every other sin attracts rebuke, chastisment, judgment and even destruction, but unbelief is the only sin that results in condemnation and spiritual death.

Alwaystrue:
This in a way explains the distinction of how Jesus stated how people are born again and whether we will see or enter the kingdom of God.

If we go back to creation, it seems our souls were created first (at that time there was no life, knowledge or will as God was yet to activate us). God formed man's body around the soul which is the house of our earthly being and breathed in his spirit which made us living souls. The spirit is the life. The soul and spirit are the consciousness, with the body it is the reality. Genesis 2:7. That's why it was not recorded that God breathed into animals for they have no spirit in that sense...more like body and soul. Matthew 10:28.
Please correct me if I got the order wrong.

So at death, in essence the spirit returns to God who gave it Eccl. 12:7; Job 27:3, Job 33:4; the body returns to the dust and the soul (the whole knowledge, will, understanding) is judged...this is after receiving the new spiritual body and life for those who have eternal life. This seems very symbolic of Ezekiel 37:1-14 where God said he will open the graves and put his spirit into the dry bones and they will live.
This seems to mean at the resurrection of the dead, the spirit will return to man's soul for the final judgement and anyone whose name is not found, all those who call Lord Lord but do not do God's will, will be judged. What will a man give for his soul, what will it profit a man to lose his soul?
Hmmmmn, more study is needed.

Bidam: Thanks bro... for the clarification, i couldn't have said it better.

Bidam: Every born again child of God will enter the kingdom of God because of the regenerated spirit as a new creation. But a born again who refuses to grow into maturity and walk in the light of the revelation he gets from the word of God will not INHERIT the kingdom of God. Even Paul was very careful in the race, which was why he stated that:
No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
1 Cor 9:27

shdemidemi:

So you actually agree with what Ayoku wrote there....alleluia o

shdemidemi:

Now that doesn't mean that he would lose his Salvation, but it goes back to a term in the potter's house. If a potter would work a beautiful work on the wheel (we'll say it was a beautiful vase; and it was supposed to contain a liquid), but after finishing it and painting it beautifully the potter discovered a fine crack in it where it wouldn't hold water. Then, rather than just pitching the vase in the trash, the potter would sit this beautiful vase on the shelf for sale only as an ornament type vase. Now the term "a castaway" was too good to throw away, but it was no longer of any workable use. Now this is what Paul is talking about. You can't lose your Salvation if you ever had it, but oh that we might work and maintain our testimony so that we won't be put on the shelf as no longer usable, even though we may have all the outward appearance of being believers, but that we might also be functional. That we can do that which The Lord saved us to do.

Bidam: I still maintain my stand that salvation is both immediate and progressive.Unlike you mentioning only one aspect, scripture is clear that there are two dynamic dimensions of salvation that we need to comprehend and operate in our life.

The experience and reality of salvation is immediate but it is also progressive.

shdemidemi:

You have a right to believe what you want to. But, the statement there contradict itself from my view point. Pls back it up with scripture if you would.

Bidam: I have A RIGHT to believe scripture and search it like a berean. It might do you good to do the same and not take one scripture ONLY to build a doctrine out of it. Both jews and gentiles are ONE BODY NOT TWO.

shdemidemi:
The angelic conflict is outside man, they were not in the world at the time.. More so, You can't use that as a leverage to justify what we are discussing here. The whole reason why God created man was to show Lucifer that I will create people who wld disobey me like you did, yet I will find a way to forgive them and draw them close to me. But for what you(Lucifer) have done, you are condemned.

Bidam: Thanks bro... for the clarification, i couldn't have said it better.

Boomark:

I always enjoy no escape/tight corner things.

"I will create people who will disobey me, i will draw some to myself and make some to remain in their disobedient, and i will punish those disobedient ones in hell fire forever because they refuse to obey me." this is what you should be saying cos its what you believe in.

Boomark:
There is no exceptions, unless you want to tell me that God has no powers over the angels including lucifer. Abi God's will no dey work for heaven? "let your will be done on earth AS IT IS IN HEAVEN."

Boomark:
I ask you again, in that time when the world was perfect, who brought sin, immorality, and so much wickedness into it upon Christians and non-Christians? .