@Bidam, thanks. Indeed more study is required but to ask some questions, please explain the difference between 'enter' and 'inherit'? Which part of man enjoys the kingdom at the end? Is it the spirit or the soul and possibly give biblical references?
Jesus spoke about the 10 virgins, 5 of which entered and five that were locked out, please explain noting that they were all prepared to meet Jesus? He said those who endure to the end will be saved. Jesus also said some will call Him 'Lord, Lord..' And He will tell them to depart from him for they work iniquity. Remember the parable of the seed sower?
Remember many received the word but how many allowed it to grow and make them fruit?

How many people truly have that Godly sorrow that makes them repent and believe with the heart? For many being born again is just a certificate to get and file away.

Refer also to Jude 5 and the Revelation chapters. Jesus also said NARROW is the way that leads to life...how many are actually in it?
The bible is rife with the meaning of BELIEF and BELIEVING with the heart. Even saying many of the Israelites did not believe though they professed with the mouth, yet their heart was far from God. Jesus often rebuke because unbelief. What about the scriptures below:
Revelation 2:5; 2 Peter 2:21; Hebrew 10:26-29; 1 Tim. 1:19; Heb. 6:4-8; 1 Tim 5:15; 1 Tim. 4:1
2 Peter 2:20; Rev. 3:2; 2 Tim 2:12;


There is a lot to study in the word for I know 'BELIEF' is a stronger thing of the heart than many claim to know.
The Holy Spirit is always there to warn us when we err, it gets to a stage some start following satan and deceitful spirits to which they fall away and turn back for we have been given what pertains to life and godliness, the ball is in our court to be humble and contrite to hear the Spirit. I do not believe in once saved always saved. We have enough examples as shown by the Judge Himself that many draw back or fall, refuse to endure.

Alwaystrue: @Bidam, thanks. Indeed more study is required but to ask some questions, please explain the difference between 'enter' and 'inherit'? Which part of man enjoys the kingdom at the end? Is it the spirit or the soul and possibly give biblical references?
Jesus spoke about the 10 virgins, 5 of which entered and five that were locked out, please explain noting that they were all prepared to meet Jesus? He said those who endure to the end will be saved. Jesus also said some will call Him 'Lord, Lord..' And He will tell them to depart from him for they work iniquity. Remember the parable of the seed sower?
Remember many received the word but how many allowed it to grow and make them fruit?

How many people truly have that Godly sorrow that makes them repent and believe with the heart? For many being born again is just a certificate to get and file away.

Refer also to Jude 5 and the Revelation chapters. Jesus also said NARROW is the way that leads to life...how many are actually in it?
The bible is rife with the meaning of BELIEF and BELIEVING with the heart. Even saying many of the Israelites did not believe though they professed with the mouth, yet their heart was far from God. Jesus often rebuke because unbelief. What about the scriptures below:
Revelation 2:5; 2 Peter 2:21; Hebrew 10:26-29; 1 Tim. 1:19; Heb. 6:4-8; 1 Tim 5:15; 1 Tim. 4:1
2 Peter 2:20; Rev. 3:2; 2 Tim 2:12;


There is a lot to study in the word for I know 'BELIEF' is a stronger thing of the heart than many claim to know.
The Holy Spirit is always there to warn us when we err, it gets to a stage some start following satan and deceitful spirits to which they fall away and turn back for we have been given what pertains to life and godliness, the ball is in our court to be humble and contrite to hear the Spirit. I do not believe in once saved always saved. We have enough examples as shown by the Judge Himself that many draw back or fall, refuse to endure.

Hmmmn! verry interesting points you have raised.I will reply accordingly in due time.thanks.

ayoku777: I've studied that topic too, again and again, coz I don't want to give impressionable believers unbiblical hope. But honestly when we study the nature of our salvation, we will agree that it is (near) impossible to lose it.

At salvation, when we received Christ; we received remission of sins by the blood (passover), regeneration of spirit by the word (unleavened) and restoration of life by the Spirit (firstfruit). And the bible says the Spirit seals us unto the day of redemption, Eph 4v30 - And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. So the Spirit is given us to help us from regeneration of spirit unto reformation of the soul unto redemption of the body

Now, to lose your salvation would imply that the Holy Spirt unsealed us (for whatever reason), and then departed from us, contrary to God's covenant promise in Isaiah 59v21 -As for me, this is my COVENANT with them, saith the Lord, My spirit that is upon thee ...shall not depart out of thy mouth ...from henceforth AND FOR EVER. And then after He departed from us, our regenerated new creation spirit now became unregenerated. That is what it means to lose your salvation.

This is a VERY FAR-FETCHED thing to ever happen. So if I'm asked if I'm a 'once saved always saved christian', I will say 99% But IF a christian can EVER lose his salvation, it will be IF AND ONLY IF the said believer no longer believes in Christ's death and resurrection. Not any other sin.

I agree with the above a great deal.

I believe Christians cannot loose thier salvation and I believe Christians can loose their salvation. And I am not out of my mind

Christians cannot loose their salvation according to the position of Ayoku up there. For those who think they can loose their own salvation, it is simple: you will loose your own salvation; I will not loose mine. Be it unto you according to your faith !

That a joke but let's get serious.

Some Christians will loose their salvation for the simple reason that they never found true saving faith in Christ Jesus. This is the reason I contend against every gospel that is not that of Christ. The salvation of the sinner man is the sovereign working of a mighty God through the preached word. He is able to save; He is able to keep safe; He is able to save to the uttermost. He has said he would not leave us nor forsake us. The Christian life is about God; it is not about us. And if it revolves around Him, we can be sure it will end in success... 100% success.

When Peter went into Cornelius' house, did he give an altar call? Did he ask anyone to give his life to Christ? What is give your life to Christ? Is there any such phrase in the whole of the NT? This is my disdain for modern gospel preaching - especially that demonic one called Word of Faith. What is my point? If the gospel is preached in its true form, the Holy Spirit will take the words and birth understanding in the hearts of the listeners. They will grab those words with faith and be soundly converted.

As long as the gospel we preach is about man, his needs and is stomach inspired, the Spirit will not confirm the preached word. Those who come to faith here will answer an altar call to give their lives to Christ, while Christ will not give his life to them. And then we have an army of pseudo Christians who live their lives by the rules of men and traditions of church. These people will mouth every cliche in the church but have never met the Savior. Some will even talk in tongues; enjoy miracles; work them; open churches; but they are on the high way to hell.

This is the reason why the gospel once delivered to the saints must be contended for because if we do not, we will have proselytes in Christianity who become worse sons of hell than their teachers.

In the long run, those who have met the true Savior via the true gospel will be sustained by the true God; who is ever faithful to us even when we are unfaithful.

For those who depend on OLAADEGBU visions of hell and heaven, and think Christians will loose thier salvation; yes they will according to my position up there. But let me make one thing clear: not even sin can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. The first Adam bequeated unto us a sin nature; the Second Adam, Christ Jesus, gave us a righteous nature. It is the latter fact that will save every true convert in Christ Jesus.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous - Romans 5

Friends, we have peace with God

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. - Romans 5

And this peace is not fragile!

Bidam: Hmmmn! verry interesting points you have raised.I will reply accordingly in due time.thanks.

I look forward to that. Thanks. And just to add, do add the scripture below which is also very key:

Galatians 6:7-8 AMP
7  Do not be deceived and deluded and misled; God will not allow Himself to be sneered at (scorned, disdained, or mocked by mere pretensions or professions, or by His precepts being set aside.) [He inevitably deludes himself who attempts to delude God.] For whatever a man sows, that and that only is what he will reap.
8  For he who sows to his own flesh (lower nature, sensuality) will from the flesh reap decay and ruin and destruction, but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

Like you rightly said, salvation is instant and progressive. A person who keeps sowing to the flesh is bound to reap destruction but he who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life for God cannot be mocked.

ayoku777:

Hmmm, you said a lot. I love the part where you said God's faithfulness is not determined by ours. God is not faithful to us only when we are faithful. This sums up the grace revelation. Its about Jesus.

What did we do to inherit the sin of the first Adam? And what did we do to stay condemned under him? NOTHING! Why is it then so hard to believe that this is exactly what is applicable under the Last Adam (Jesus)? We don't do anything besides faith to receive his righteousness and we don't do anything to stay justified under him.

If what I do makes me lose the righteousness of Christ, then even the righteousness of Christ is built on the foundation of my own righteousness. Meaning it was never really his righteousness.

Exactly! And every man will stand condemned before God.

In the great book of Romans were Paul discussed this mighty doctrine, he started by showing that all have sinned. He even showed that those who had the law stand condemned under it. It seem to me people do not know the enormity of sin. There is no small sin or big sin; sin is sin before a righteous God. When we understand that, we can now access the perfect righteousness of God that is the solution to the perfect evil of sin.

The question of progressive holiness is the working of God in the life of a saved person and it is an independent subject from the question of salvation. Progressive holiness is not progressive salvation. If not we will be saved by our works of righteousness. There is no such thing as progressive salvation. It is either we are saved once and for all or we are not saved at all.

shdemidemi:

If that is the way you like to put it, tough.

I have said earlier that the angelic conflict and the protocol there cannot be in any way compared to human dispensations. As for God's will, you and I don't know the rudiment of His will, all we know is that the Will of God remains paramount.


When was the world ever perfect?

How do you know that angelic conflicts cannot be compared to that of human? Are they not subject to God or is God the one that desired them to sin?

When was the world ever perfect?

Before Adam and Eve ever sinned, the world was perfect. Unless you believe they were created as sinners?

So before the fall of Adam and Eve, whose desire/will is it that so much wickedness, immorality(funication, adultery, etc), murder, lies and bitterness will enter into the world?

Options:
a. God
b. Satan
c. Both

seems you are no longer bold enough to say what you believe in?

I don't know if this my English is sounding 'igbo igbo'? I don tire to repeat that question, someone should help me translate it to British English.

Boomark:

How do you know that angelic conflicts cannot be compared to that of human? Are they not subject to God or is God the one that desired them to sin?

Were angels human?

Were they subjected to any law?

They were outside time and outside scriptures. The entire story of humanity and God's will towards man started after they rebelled against God.

Boomark:
Before Adam and Eve ever sinned, the world was perfect. Unless you believe they were created as sinners?

So before the fall of Adam and Eve, whose desire/will is it that so much wickedness, immorality(funication, adultery, etc), murder, lies and bitterness will enter into the world?

Options:
a. God
b. Satan
c. Both

seems you are no longer bold enough to say what you believe in?

I don't know if this my English is sounding 'igbo igbo'? I don tire to repeat that question, someone should help me translate it to British English.

First thing first, there is a difference between the 'world' and the 'earth'. The world is a system on earth. The world shall come to an end but the earth would never end. Therefore, the world system started after the fall and not in the garden.

Before God created man, He knew the end of man. The forbidden fruit was in the garden for a reason, if it was not there, there wouldn't have been a fall in the first place. in fact, God placed it right in the middle of the garden.Man had to fall and God had to redeem man back to Himself.

There is light and there is darkness. The garden of Eden was safe haven for man, God pushed man out of light into darkness. God shut the door against man, all man could do was to thread from darkness into more darkness. God also knew He would draw man back to Himself by becoming the son of man.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;



The devil is as confused as men when it comes to what God is doing. Like you and I go about our business everyday, not knowing how our day will turn out. The devil also does all he can do not knowing the end but only God sees the end even from the beginning.

So all these things you 'bookmark' define as evil may be there, so God can bring out His own people and take the glory to himself through it. Out of the entire dead people in the world, God chose one man called Abraham. Through Abraham in the midst of all the immoralities in the world, He showed His love and He took the glory. Even till date, the Jews glorify God for what Abraham achieved by election.

Similarly, in our present sinful world today, God chose the church as a separate people, as the light of the world through whom He takes the glory.

God is not a God of number/statistics, He can choose to destroy everyone on earth and save only one family like He did in the time of Noah. May be not in the same way cos He promised He won't destroy the world that way.



Sometimes I also wonder why God didn't create me in His own image, so I decide if I want to eat the fruit/ disobey Him or not. But no, I am made in the image of Adam, which means I am as much a victim of disobedience as Adam was. I came to the world a sinner/ spiritually dead on arrival. But by and through Christ, my spirit was made alive never to die again.

ayoku777:

Its not about saying what is 'good' or 'bad' (by human standard). Its called dividing the word of truth (without sentiments). To give that passage another interpretation would be twisting scripture to suit our prejudice; and that's heresis.

Here is another scripture where the same thing was done to judge erring brethren for their spirits' sake.

1Tim 1v19-20 -Holding faith and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; WHOM I HAVE DELIVERED UNTO SATAN, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

Paul delivered them unto satan so that their blasphemy will not degenerate into unbelief (sin unto death).

You need to start changing the way you understand a lot of things.

So when they say adultery and fornication are things of the flesh, you will go and start looking for where they are pasted on your flesh/skin. And to you also, destroying the flesh means killing a man to save his spirit? SMH!!!

How do you deliver a man to the devil? By praying to God for Him to send satan to the man or by praying to satan to do so?

shdemidemi:


Were angels human?

Were they subjected to any law?

They were outside time and outside scriptures. The entire story of humanity and God's will towards man started after they rebelled against God.



First thing first, there is a difference between the 'world' and the 'earth'. The world is a system on earth. The world shall come to an end but the earth would never end. Therefore, the world system started after the fall and not in the garden.

Before God created man, He knew the end of man. The forbidden fruit was in the garden for a reason, if it was not there, there wouldn't have been a fall in the first place. in fact, God placed it right in the middle of the garden.Man had to fall and God had to redeem man back to Himself.

There is light and there is darkness. The garden of Eden was safe haven for man, God pushed man out of light into darkness. God shut the door against man, all man could do was to thread from darkness into more darkness. God also knew He would draw man back to Himself by becoming the son of man.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;



The devil is as confused as men when it comes to what God is doing. Like you and I go about our business everyday, not knowing how our day will turn out. The devil also does all he can do not knowing the end but only God sees the end even from the beginning.

So all these things you 'bookmark' define as evil may be there, so God can bring out His own people and take the glory to himself through it. Out of the entire dead people in the world, God chose one man called Abraham. Through Abraham in the midst of all the immoralities in the world, He showed His love and He took the glory. Even till date, the Jews glorify God for what Abraham achieved by election.

Similarly, in our present sinful world today, God chose the church as a separate people, as the light of the world through whom He takes the glory.

I give up! because you are not sincere, running from pillar to post, dodging my questions and teaching me what you think is right. As if my question cannot be answered even after your 'first thing first.'
SMH!!!

Boomark:



I give up! because you are not sincere, running from pillar to post, dodging my questions and teaching me what you think is right. As if my question cannot be answered even after your 'first thing first.'
SMH!!!

I am sorry I cldn't help you.

Romans 9:18-23 KJV
Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will he hardeneth. [19] Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? [20] Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it , Why hast thou made me thus? [21] Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [22] What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

The above scripture always tell me that as Christians, there is something we MUST realise and that is we will NEVER be able to fully comprehend God this side of eternity. We just have to learn to trust that his purposes will turn out right for us. We delude ourselves if we think we can fully decode God and his will or purposes. A song writer said we'll understand better by and by. I think I believe him.

See what Moses told the Israelites by inspiration
Deuteronomy 29:29 KJV
The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Also
Isaiah 55:9 KJV
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Some things will always remain hidden from us until the regeneration. However, we would do well to remember that God remains God irrespective of our feelings or criteria of judgement.

There are times God will not make sense. He owes us no explanations even at such times.

Candour: Some things will always remain hidden from us until the regeneration. However, we would do well to remember that God remains God irrespective of our feelings or criteria of judgement.

There are times God will not make sense. He owes us no explanations even at such times.

You're very right. I always say this that being dogmatic about a revelation that is still unfolding is the source of doctrinal division in the church. Rick Joyner puts it this way, error is caused by taking to logical conclusions things God has only revealed in part.

I can see false doctrines and scripture twisting flying around the whole place !

One things is certain, if you keep practicing sin with the excuse that your sins are forgiven present , past and future, you will be shocked on judgement day.

Boomark:



I give up! because you are not sincere, running from pillar to post, dodging my questions and teaching me what you think is right. As if my question cannot be answered even after your 'first thing first.'
SMH!!!

Man made theology has taken our brother away from the simplicity of Scripture.

[quote author=shdemidemi]God is not a God of number/statistics, He can choose to destroy everyone on earth and save only one family like He did in the time of Noah. May be not in the same way cos He promised He won't destroy the world that way.

Okay, so he made billions of people knowing in advance that he will destroy 95% of them , right ? But to make matters worse, your destruction is not actually destruction but eternal torment.

So lets recap on your logic :

- God makes billions of humans who never chose to be here on their own volition
- He damns almost all of them
- sends them to an eternal place of torment.
- only a very few are saved

May I ask what kind of freak you are serving ?

ayoku777: We need to stop reading the bible too fast, it makes us miss important details.

Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, I never knew you DOESN'T MEAN go to hell. And gnashing your teeth in outer darkness as the foolish virgins would, doesn't also mean they would go to hell.

There are christians who will experience the first resurrection and will not experience the second death (lake of fire) yet they will be shut out of the city of God for a thousand years. Those are the christians in the 'camp of the saint'. In the millenial reign, there will be three groups; those in the beloved city, those in the camp of the saint and those in the nations (Gog and Magog).

Rev 20v7-8 -And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison. And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth GOG AND MAGOG, to gather them together to battle .....And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS about, and THE BELOVED CITY. And fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I never knew you is not a literal term, Jesus knows everyone. In hebrew it is an intimate word, like Adam knew his wife. It means to consummate or go all the way with your partner. There are christians who belong to Christ but never got intimate with him. They will be shut out of the beloved city for a thousand years and they will gnash their teeth in the camp of the saints. But they still have overcome the second death. And they will not be part of the dead that will be jugded in v12-15

Will stop here. Said too much already. But I repeat, let's stop reading the bible too fast

Thanks for this great advice of not reading the bible too fast. How you term those that Christ called workers of iniquity and lawlessness as Christians still is really really worrisome. Depart means Christ does not want anything to do with them, a clear example below:

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Revelation 22:12-15
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie .

We need Jesus to endure to the end and remain FAITHFUL.
If your idea 'depart from me' and 'outer darkness' where there is gnashing of teeth is some cool place, I really think you have said too much.


What many fail to realise is that it is people who DEPART from the faith themselves when they give heed to seducing spirits (Seducing spirits come in like all is well preaching 'feel good', 'you can never do wrong' Christianity) forgetting we have to be up and active and lay hold on what Christ has already got for us.
It is left to us to HOLD ON to the faith!


Hear Paul:
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine and test and evaluate your own selves to see whether you are holding to your faith and showing the proper fruits of it. Test and prove yourselves [not Christ]. Do you not yourselves realize and know [thoroughly by an ever-increasing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you--unless you are [counterfeits] disapproved on trial and rejected?
These are to Christians!

It is one thing to fall into sin, have godly sorrow and repent and another to continue in sin and feel all is well and one is still in Christ.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward].
27  [There is nothing left for us then] but a kind of awful and fearful prospect and expectation of divine judgment and the fury of burning wrath and indignation which will consume those who put themselves in opposition [to God]

The above verse was talking to supposed Christians.
If the grace and salvation we claim to have cannot make us repent and help us to live righteously in Christ, zealous for good works (Titus 2:11-14)...then examine if you truly are in the faith.

Hmmm

ayoku777:

You're very right. I always say this that being dogmatic about a revelation that is still unfolding is the source of doctrinal division in the church. Rick Joyner puts it this way, error is caused by taking to logical conclusions things God has only revealed in part.

be careful of Rick Joyner, error is not very far off.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgdcdjtlGfo

frosbel:

be careful of Rick Joyner, error is not very far off.

I'm yet to find that MOG in the world, except those canonized in scripture who didn't have chaff mixed with wheat in his doctrines. Maturity is the abiltiy to separate the two with the help of the Spirit and keep running this race.

All my mentors preached somethings I disagree with. But they're still servants of God on this same race unto perfection.

And as I always say, we will get there. We will still come.

ayoku777:

I'm yet to find that MOG in the world, except those canonized in scripture who didn't have chaff mixed with wheat in his doctrines. Maturity is the abiltiy to separate the two with the help of the Spirit and keep running this race.

All my mentors preached somethings I disagree with. But they're still servants of God on this same race unto perfection

a servant of God does not mix wheat with chaff. Ask Paul or Peter.

If you had watched that video, what you would have seen is voodoo and spiritualism, nothing to do with Jesus.

It is only when you submit to the lordship of Jesus ( not by mouth ) , that you will be set free from false doctrines. MEN will always mislead where there are no checks and balances in place.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

The freak that can't be questioned on whatever He chooses to do with what He created. The day the clay starts dictating to the porter on how it wants to be used, you can come question God.

If you are not a coward like I sense you are, answer these questions-

Did God create pharaoh for destruction? Yes/no

Did God choose Jacob even before he was born?

Did God promise to destroy His enemies and the enemies of His elect?

We will get there

[quote author=shdemidemi]

The freak that can't be questioned on whatever He chooses to do with what He created. The day the clay starts dictating to the porter on how it wants to be used, you can come question God.

God has asked us to reason with him, we are reasonable creatures.

Mind you I did not say God will not destroy the majority who choose to align themselves with Satan, I intentionally used your predistination buzz word, i.e God knew that they will be damned in advance, but allowed them to be born anyway, after all what the hec !

If you are not a coward like I sense you are, answer these questions-

Sounded like your true master - Calvin

Did God create pharaoh for destruction? Yes/no

Pharaoh chose destruction by his pride and stubborneess, so God let him have it his way, i.e come to a hardening of heart.

Did God choose Jacob even before he was born?

Yes.

Did God promise to destroy His enemies?

yes.

ayoku777: Hmmm

Hmm...mmm

You have a long way to go in your teaching. I think God permits some to remain on that level of babies - you know where they need rules and regulations to guide them. Others choose to go unto Sonship and learn to be led of the Spirit.

It is fool hardy for some to think because we teach a gospel of grace we are promoting lawlessness. For those who think so, I request they re-read Candour's very well written paper on "Grace is not Licence":

https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/11#17803555

shdemidemi:

I am sorry I cldn't help you.

I understand. Due to your fear of God, it is better to for you to SAY that God created men to fornicate, practice wickedness, and murder, INDIRECTLY (like you said, "God will create people who will disobey him.... All that men do is not their will but God's will). It is better insinuated. You are running from a direct statement which i was seeking to avoid speaking against God directly. I understood it all right from the beginning and i know you are not an atheist who could openly say He is wicked to both Christians and non-Christians else....

When someone ask you questions you cannot Help him answer, better scrap that thing you think you know or you upgrade.

all we need is the Bible, Jesus and our tongues to praise or pray to Almighty God.

We do not need all these intermidiaries all over the place going by pastor, bishop, man of God etc, this is where the deception and confusion has come from.

When we turn away our eyes from Jesus and transfer it to Rick Joyner's experiences or Kumuiyi's , Adeboye's etc , we are certain to fall into error.

"Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart turns away from the LORD." - Jeremiah 17:5

ayoku777: We will get there

We sure will. Amen.
On your last post, the message of grace is actually in two parts, it brings salvation and then teaches us to remain saved and righteous. (Titus 2:11-14); that is why Jude was wary of the certain men that crept in to church perverting grace as an avenue to lawlessness. Paul also aked us to examine ourselves. Hebrews 6 tells us about moving to perfection which is using the enabling grace of God to live right nd doing what pleases God. So grace is a deep messsge on its own.

On your quest to know more of God and His word, possibly take a retreat. I enjoyed a great time recently with the word when I took time out and away to fellowship alone. So many things were opened. You will not come back the same, definitely.

Titus 2

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

There is nothing in those scriptures that says "grace teaches us to remain saved". That is the doctrine of men.

1. v.11: God's grace brings salvation and that salvation is free and accessible by all men.

2. v.12: It teaches us to live godly lives. Not to "remain saved". Not to keep the laws of Moses. Not to tithe. To deny worldly lust: lust of the flesh, eye and pride of life. Lust so entrenched in our hearts that only God can show them to us and help us overcome them. But as long as we are keeping certain codes of the law, we will forever be blinded by our self righteousness to know how to live the godly living the grace of God teaches us.

Hear Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4

2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit

The call to separate from worldly is a command of Christ. Paul tells us that every man must know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor. The way I do it, is not the way you will do yours. We all must know how to deal with lusts in our hearts. The grace of God teaches us to do this. God has called us to holiness.

My point is this: I am yet to see any of the grace advocates on this forum teach lawlessness. They may teach that we should not tithe; they may teach that we are not bound to church rules; but non of them teach fulfilling self lusts. But some are so blinded by the self righteousness that resorts from the keeping of the law that they think that if anyone is not keeping the laws of Moses, such an individual is not keeping the laws of Christ. But in the 1 Thessalonians 4 scripture we see clearly what the laws of Christ are: denying sexual lust. In Titus 2, it denying worldly lust!

3. v.13: Christ coming is a blessed hope. It is the hope of our calling. It is not whether or not he is coming for us; it is that he is coming and as long as some are not sure whether they will saved, what is the worth in looking out for a blessed hope.

4. v.14: Christ redeems; Christ purifies; and Christ produces a people zealous for good works. It is all the doing of Christ. It is the working of His grace. THIS IS THE GRACE OF GOD THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED TO MEN!!!