This is going to be a long one so i suggest you be patient.ok i've seen people on this forum try to debunk claims of the supernatural ,especially "voodoo" or "witchcraft",the problem is they fail to go into details and as such do not sound very convincing.i've always maintained that every supernatural claim proves itself to be invalid upon critical scrutiny and the best way to investigate any claim is to take it apart and and examine each process in details that leads to .now the purpose of this post is to convince readers of the falsity of these claims and show the harmful effects die-hard believers of this pose to the society and as such i won't be talking about miracles because i don't see it posing as much threat "voodoo'' i will consider two claims and in the course of this thread i'll add more and hopefully,readers can contribute

1.HUMAN-ANIMAL MUTATION:This claim usually involves a person being accused of changing into an animal and tormenting people.this is a claim on biology,from what science tells us,every animal possesses a unique DNA.therefore a cat is a cat because it has cat DNA,its whole biological makeup is that of a cat including its brain.now saying someone changed into a cat,you're basically saying he converted his DNA from a cat's to a human's and i assume he didn't just wish himself into a cat,must have had to say or do something and in our experience we've never seen anyone transform his DNA to a cat's by saying a few words,in fact am not aware of any biological breakthrough that can transform DNA within seconds,so anyone who makes that claim would have to provide very convincing evidence for that.ok supposing he manages to pull it off,remember being a cat means you have cat brain,so how then does a cat figure out how to mutate back to a human?it's not like cats wake up everyday wishing to be humans,they can't think or talk(at least not in the way we can)so i would expect that based on these deficiencies he's pretty much stuck being a cat,but those who tell the stories always report back and forth mutation,so again whoever makes that claim would have to explain how all these are possible.so having considered all these,the question is,in the face of all the details,which is more plausible,that someone changed into a cat or someone made the story up?

2.VOLUNTARY CONFESSIONS:stories about these type of claims have become somewhat of a cliche,you can almost certainly predict the end of these stories,they all end up eating with the "devil",all become great indispensable members of their cult,they all eat human flesh and not surprisingly,they all manage to escape unharmed and almost certainly open their own ministries,write books or make movies.most of these people are simply frauds who know what the average nigerian wants to hear and they play into these expectations.but some are simply schizophrenic,one signature of schizophrenia is hallucinated encounters,heck even a severe form of malaria could do that to you,it's happened to me and mostly you tend to exaggerate these experiences and most of these episodes work in line with what you're familiar with,for instance,if your believe the devil to be a bald guy with horns and a tail,in experiences like that,you tend to see the "devil" exactly how you have always imagined him to be and this explains why everyone tends to tell identical stories about their experiences.
well am sure this is already long as it is,but my position is,if we all knew that "blood money" is BS,no one would kill in hopes of making money through such means,am very passionate about this because i think it says a lot about a country whose police actually arrested a goat because they believed someone had turned into one.now if anyone has any contribution,please do present them

ve jst wasted my prescious tym

liloelawwal: ve jst wasted my prescious tym

ok

@op...Experience is the best teacher.

Ranchhoddas: @op...Experience is the best teacher.

and have you experienced any supernatural event?

Mr.Rothstein:
and have you experienced any supernatural event?

ur mind is already made up so you won't believe,you'll just look for a way to rationalize it away!

I still reason that bullet proof own

Ranchhoddas: ur mind is already made up so you won't believe,you'll just look for a way to rationalize it away!

no mind is too made up to listen to convincing proof,but don't you think if your experience can be objectively rationalized then perhaps it wasn't special?

GeneralShepherd: I still reason that bullet proof own

19th century european trick,most of the guys that are so eager to test their guns on eachother are all working together,there is no bullet,just sound.ok how does that work?you shoot and the bullet touches his chest and falls off?really?have you ever seen any bullet fall off?and how many guns are those guys willing to try exactly?

Mr.Rothstein:
19th century european trick,most of the guys that are so eager to test their guns on eachother are all working together,there is no bullet,just sound.ok how does that work?you shoot and the bullet touches his chest and falls off?really?have you ever seen any bullet fall off?and how many guns are those guys willing to try exactly?

Back in school, I had seen a guy that was shot and cut severally with a machete by the opposing cult group to no avil,after we all ran away he was found dead with no physical injury and a dislocated neck.

GeneralShepherd:

Back in school, I had seen a guy that was shot and cut severally with a machete by the opposing cult group to no avil,after we all ran away he was found dead with no physical injury and a dislocated neck.

well i wasn't there obviously so i can't quite confirm or falsify your experience,but did YOU actually examine his body to see what he died of?you touched his neck to see it was dislocated?i mean if you're strong enough that bullets don't penetrate you,then what is a little neck twisting?it doesn't add up for me honestly

Mr.Rothstein:
well i wasn't there obviously so i can't quite confirm or falsify your experience,but did YOU actually examine his body to see what he died of?you touched his neck to see it was dislocated?i mean if you're strong enough that bullets don't penetrate you,then what is a little neck twisting?it doesn't add up for me honestly

I didn't investigate and thus cannot say with certainty, but he wasn't bleeding and I saw him shot severally and cut severally with a machete! But it sure looked out of the ordinary. And I am an atheist

GeneralShepherd:

I didn't investigate and thus cannot say with certainty, but he wasn't bleeding and I saw him shot severally and cut severally with a machete! But it sure looked out of the ordinary. And I am an atheist

you didn't investigate because you didn't see a need to,my best guess is you were a christian then and its only normal for christians to also believe in 'evil forces' so your experience,valid as it is to you could be an illusion,you already had preconcieved believes and your mind does the rest;autosuggestion.1500 people claimed to have seen david copperfield make the statue of liberty vanish!but it was later revealed to be an illusion,the mind is powerful.also read about robert buckhout's experiment where he staged an attack against a university professor in california state university.six weeks after the incident,the witnesses were shown several male pictures and 60% of the witness including the attacked professor chose the wrong guy as the attacker! So you see there are cognitive biases and it is not impossible for people to exagerrate claims to make it seem more appealing

What is Supernatural?!

Experience alone can decide on truth..... Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world: all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

OP we are the same in skeptism. When I asked a babalawo to explain Ifa to me, he only gave me same old stories I had from people. I told him am not satisfied and he challenged me to visit Igbodu where I can experience it and decipher meaning to it in my own understanding and consciousness. That mean words cant explain everythiing. Though since am still living on my parents, I cant go that far with the old man but am sure to when am alone in the future.

Personally to me, what we call supernatural is something we cant explain now or which doesnt have explaination as at present. So I still wonder how you will explain what you dont understand. Nothing is supernatural, everything in nature is super enough. When there are explaination, everything become normal and add up to knowledge.

I would have taken you on experimentation but it you seem you are close minded and only want to argue. I am not on for that.....I walk to the stream and do what I got to do, I dont argue if it compose of so so so and so hydrogen or oxygen. You were arguing on human turning to cat, why cant you start from the simple herb and medicine concortion? Why cant you walk toward those toothless how papa in the village and ask him the chemical component in herbs, leaves and local medicine? I can proudly say my right hand broke in two places when I was in secondary school. My dad moved me to this local orthopaedic clinic. It was dirty and what suprised me is that no tangible tool there than the woman clothless bed and black pots. Nothing like medical equipments to classified it as a clinic. It was my dad that bought the tools used on the hand. And what is it....calabash, some herbs, a fowl, some coin money (10 kobo and one thing they called money with hole in the middle....this cost like 1k each) and some other fetish things. My mum wrapper were torn to make bandage. The old woman did her work and what marvel me today is that she broke the two arm of the fowl, treated it with same treatment on me and said when the chicken healed, my hand would be intact. I was there for two weeks and behold, my hand was ok though still had some pains and cant handle things. I was discharged and had to report to her daily for check up. Now is it the old woman that hardly can write her name you want around to give you logical explaination of what she did? I dont even believe she can explain the relationship between me and hen or what coin and herbs which i ate some as concortion and rest applied on my hand. My hand is here for verification. And am sure you cant know anything happen to it unless I tell you or show you traces. The point is are herbs working or it not because it not explainable?

I agreed there are magic and tricks. I have watched those thing live....i mean right before my two eye and not on tv screen. A critical example is water in a basket. I verified it and confirmed there was nylon in it. Do I have to ask common street tout to give me logical analysis on what he himself doesn't understand but do as fun? An aboki guy taught me and a friend how to eat razor....now my friend can eat it but i can never try such a thing... ....is it aboki you want around to give you rational points why the blade didn't cut him?

Even the great scientist I know make critical observation. They ask questions for furthering understanding not for argument sake or cheap talk. So what they do is experiment and test. Go there where you can find chance to experience or challenge those that made a claim about this. Thats where your answer lied. If you want argument on nairaland (cuz supernatural talk pool more replies) then you can go on endlessly as you wish without any result. I wrote something on bullet proof charm and still working on it....because i fish out naturalistic hypothesis for it. You can go out there and experiment it then come out with whatever you got there. Cheers

I've seen people healed by God. I've been healed several times. You cannot make me disbelieve what I have seen and heard and experienced.

Man will always yearn for the supernatural. Its in his nature. That's why men who claim to peddle it draw the largest crowds.

If Kay17 suddenly has a terminal incurable disease, she'll probably look for a so called healer to preserve her life.

Joshthefirst: I've seen people healed by God. I've been healed several times. You cannot make me disbelieve what I have seen and heard and experienced.

Man will always yearn for the supernatural. Its in his nature. That's why men who claim to peddle it draw the largest crowds.

If Kay17 suddenly has a terminal incurable disease, she'll probably look for a so called healer to preserve her life.

What you saw could be illusion, what you heard could be lies....what was it you experienced?

Miracle are more coincidental than be class as practical experimentation.

Tell us any analytical experience so that we discuss it and verify.

Joshthefirst:
I've seen people healed by God. I've been healed several times.

If this healer is faithful and true, we could as well shut down hospitals and medical centres and hope for him to cure all illnesses. We could as well shut down medical schools and replace their books with Bibles. Are you that confident in God's abilities?

Of course, I expect you'll blame his inefficiency on lack of faith on man's side.

Joshthefirst:
You cannot make me disbelieve what I have seen and heard and experienced.

Neither can you expect anyone to take your subjective experiences seriously. Don't call me mad cos I do not experience the same headache you have.

Joshthefirst:
Man will always yearn for the supernatural. Its in his nature

What is supernatural? That which is beyond nature? So how you can describe this, if it exists, when you are all natural?

It is in man's nature to be inquisitive. Questions lead to answers which lead to more questions. And the cycle goes on endlessly, as it will continue to do. To try to restrict man's inquisitive nature is to shackle him to dogmas and unfounded claims like religion does.

Joshthefirst:
That's why men who claim to peddle it draw the largest crowds.

I guess you've been attending church conventions for too long.

Joshthefirst:
If Kay17 suddenly has a terminal incurable disease, she'll probably look for a so called healer to preserve her life.

May not be my business, but I think this statement was unnecessary, especially naming a moniker.

Mr.Rothstein:
no mind is too made up to listen to convincing proof,but don't you think if your experience can be objectively rationalized then perhaps it wasn't special?

i knew it would come to this,that's why i say u have 2 experience urself.

aManFromMars:
If this healer is faithful and true, we could as well shut down hospitals and medical centres and hope for him to cure all illnesses. We could as well shut down medical schools and replace their books with Bibles. Are you that confident in God's abilities?

yes. I am very confident in God's abilities.

aManFromMars: Of course, I expect you'll blame his inefficiency on lack of faith on man's side.

yes. God is always faithful. We must meet him on his terms. He heals when we believe and keep his commandments. To the proud and unbelieving, he does not bother with them.
God is all-sufficient. Man's unbelief and sin makes him inefficient in dealing with his basic problems

aManFromMars: Neither can you expect anyone to take your subjective experiences seriously. Don't call me mad cos I do not experience the same headache you have.

my experience is not subjective. Many others have experienced it too. I will not argue the existence of healing or the supernatural with you. It is foolish to argue about something that is real and true. Go out in real life and see for yourself instead of speaking big words online.

aManFromMars: What is supernatural? That which is beyond nature? So how you can describe this, if it exists, when you are all natural?

you are not all natural. You only deny and supress and ignore the basic side of you, that lives in you, and is the real you. Do not try to blow-up this fact that man is a being, a spiritual being.

aManFromMars: It is in man's nature to be inquisitive. Questions lead to answers which lead to more questions. And the cycle goes on endlessly, as it will continue to do. To try to restrict man's inquisitive nature is to shackle him to dogmas and unfounded claims like religion does.

Questions about the natural lead to more questions about the natural. The supernatural has a source and guidelines with which it operates. Shackling to dogma and unfounded claims is an attempt to exploit man. But speaking the truth liberates man, as the needful questions revolving the core of his being are dealt with. There is a difference between the natural and the supernatural, and God is the author of both, and the God of both.

aManFromMars: I guess you've been attending church conventions for too long.



May not be my business, but I think this statement was unnecessary, especially naming a moniker.

The reason I named her monkier, is because I foresaw her attempting to philosophize and rationale the basic concept of the supernational, as you do now.

FOLYKAZE: Experience alone can decide on truth..... Pure logical thinking cannot yield us any knowledge of the empirical world: all knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

OP we are the same in skeptism. When I asked a babalawo to explain Ifa to me, he only gave me same old stories I had from people. I told him am not satisfied and he challenged me to visit Igbodu where I can experience it and decipher meaning to it in my own understanding and consciousness. That mean words cant explain everythiing. Though since am still living on my parents, I cant go that far with the old man but am sure to when am alone in the future.

Personally to me, what we call supernatural is something we cant explain now or which doesnt have explaination as at present. So I still wonder how you will explain what you dont understand. Nothing is supernatural, everything in nature is super enough. When there are explaination, everything become normal and add up to knowledge.

I would have taken you on experimentation but it you seem you are close minded and only want to argue. I am not on for that.....I walk to the stream and do what I got to do, I dont argue if it compose of so so so and so hydrogen or oxygen. You were arguing on human turning to cat, why cant you start from the simple herb and medicine concortion? Why cant you walk toward those toothless how papa in the village and ask him the chemical component in herbs, leaves and local medicine? I can proudly say my right hand broke in two places when I was in secondary school. My dad moved me to this local orthopaedic clinic. It was dirty and what suprised me is that no tangible tool there than the woman clothless bed and black pots. Nothing like medical equipments to classified it as a clinic. It was my dad that bought the tools used on the hand. And what is it....calabash, some herbs, a fowl, some coin money (10 kobo and one thing they called money with hole in the middle....this cost like 1k each) and some other fetish things. My mum wrapper were torn to make bandage. The old woman did her work and what marvel me today is that she broke the two arm of the fowl, treated it with same treatment on me and said when the chicken healed, my hand would be intact. I was there for two weeks and behold, my hand was ok though still had some pains and cant handle things. I was discharged and had to report to her daily for check up. Now is it the old woman that hardly can write her name you want around to give you logical explaination of what she did? I dont even believe she can explain the relationship between me and hen or what coin and herbs which i ate some as concortion and rest applied on my hand. My hand is here for verification. And am sure you cant know anything happen to it unless I tell you or show you traces. The point is are herbs working or it not because it not explainable?

I agreed there are magic and tricks. I have watched those thing live....i mean right before my two eye and not on tv screen. A critical example is water in a basket. I verified it and confirmed there was nylon in it. Do I have to ask common street tout to give me logical analysis on what he himself doesn't understand but do as fun? An aboki guy taught me and a friend how to eat razor....now my friend can eat it but i can never try such a thing... ....is it aboki you want around to give you rational points why the blade didn't cut him?

Even the great scientist I know make critical observation. They ask questions for furthering understanding not for argument sake or cheap talk. So what they do is experiment and test. Go there where you can find chance to experience or challenge those that made a claim about this. Thats where your answer lied. If you want argument on nairaland (cuz supernatural talk pool more replies) then you can go on endlessly as you wish without any result. I wrote something on bullet proof charm and still working on it....because i fish out naturalistic hypothesis for it. You can go out there and experiment it then come out with whatever you got there. Cheers

just to correct you,i didn't make this post just for 'cheap talk' like you called it,i hoped to be convinced on how this works but so far you've not done that.herbs and fractured bones are nothing extraordinary,she said you'll be healed when the chicken bone was healed too,sounds to me like saying ''you'll be healed after a certain period of time'' doctors do that too,herbal medicine is not supernatural neither is razor eating,these are just impressive tricks people do

Osun river heals.

Osahin priests are master healers, they know all the healing herbs of the Forest.

Supernatural stuffs are just labeled so because people don't understand how it works

Joshthefirst:
yes. I am very confident in God's abilities.

Lol. I guess God didn't create herbs to treat diseases or ailments. Just put that down to man finding ways to cure diseases without God's intervention.

Joshthefirst:
yes. God is always faithful. We must meet him on his terms. He heals when we believe and keep his commandments. To the proud and unbelieving, he does not bother with them

And I've seen men rise above insults, hatred and backlash to treat men who would rather see them dead. But this God, your god, doesn't give a damn for people on the other side. He sounds like a Nigerian politician. What is it about our belief that he craves so much?

Joshthefirst:
God is all-sufficient. Man's unbelief and sin makes him inefficient in dealing with his basic problems

Spoken like a true Nigerian. Other countries have done a lot to handle their basic problems. But of course, that wouldn't matter to you. You hold beliefs more sacred than facts.

Joshthefirst:
my experience is not subjective. Many others have experienced it too. I will not argue the existence of healing or the supernatural with you. It is foolish to argue about something that is real and true.

Based on this argument,we might as well conclude that all religions are true, and all gods are true.

Joshthefirst:
Go out in real life and see for yourself instead of speaking big words online.

You should take your own advice.

Joshthefirst:
you are not all natural. You only deny and supress and ignore the basic side of you, that lives in you, and is the real you. Do not try to blow-up this fact that man is a being, a spiritual being

You are homosexual. You only deny, suppress and ignore that side of you that yearns for an ass-whooping . Do not try to ignore the fact that you are a homosexual being.

Joshthefirst:
Questions about the natural lead to more questions about the natural. The supernatural has a source and guidelines with which it operates. Shackling to dogma and unfounded claims is an attempt to exploit man. But speaking the truth liberates man, as the needful questions revolving the core of his being are dealt with. There is a difference between the natural and the supernatural, and God is the author of both, and the God of both.

Like you've been told countless times on this forum, if you feel God, your version especially, and his so called guidelines are objectively verifiable, feel free to call a press conference and announce it to the world. Even the 'magnet proves homosexuality' guy wasn't this hesitant.

Can a miracle or supernatural means make me taller? I would love to have a few more inches .

rationalmind: Can a miracle or supernatural means make me taller? I would love to have a few more inches .

Speak with any Obatala priest, if such is possible Obatala is best to consult

macof:

Speak with any Obatala priest, if such is possible Obatala is best to consult

Lol, you can also ask him on my behalf

Mr.Rothstein:
just to correct you,i didn't make this post just for 'cheap talk' like you called it,i hoped to be convinced on how this works but so far you've not done that.herbs and fractured bones are nothing extraordinary,she said you'll be healed when the chicken bone was healed too,sounds to me like saying ''you'll be healed after a certain period of time'' doctors do that too,herbal medicine is not supernatural neither is razor eating,these are just impressive tricks people do

Are you for real?

I explained to you that supernatural is a term use to express a not yet understood phenomenon. Is that the fact you want me to present? You want me to explain what doesn't have explanation. Smh. For real, you are here for cheap talk and baseless arguement. I quote Einstein who said Experimentation is truth, logical thinking and analysis cant explain the empirical world. I have challenged you to go for experience, what is the fact you looking for from me? Stop lying around....we know your purpose and it cheap talk or argument. Get something better doing (experiment) than hanging on words. There are more to life than internet and technology.

And where did I say there is something extraordinary in what the woman did on my broken bones? I have initially explained that supernatural is something that we cant fully explain yet but when there are full explanation, it become norms and add up to knowledge. nature is super enough. Pls can you explain how my bone and that of fowl were healed with herbs, concortion and incision? Is incision explanable with logic? For hell sake since it ordinary and simple like 2+2, can you explain logically how incision and herb healed my hand?

The woman that worked on my hand do not know 20 elements, do not have logical analysis or scientifical yet her work succeeded. If you ask her to explain the chemical components in the herb, how fowl bone equates to mine and what coin is doing with bone, she will look you as mad person because she do not know and cant fully understand. I have challenged you to ask the aged papa in your village to list the chemical component in herbs.....DESPITE, THIS HERBS, CONCORSION AND MEDICINE WORKS.

There work aint scientifical but spiritual. And to the best aspect i know, spirituality is compatible with science. Science is bounded between logical explanation and practical display while spirituality have no bounds. You and I know that after counting 1, 2 follows. There is bound and limit among the two BUT looking dip, there is infinite too between the figures. 1.0000000001 to 1.999.....till eternity is between 1 and 2. Normal situation is putting bounds while the infinite is spirituality. So in real sense, you approximate the infinite so that you have one figure/number. Your enquiry on fact is like asking me to count infinte number here. Wtf? The best I can give is approximate spirituality to you which is go and experience it. Or challenge those that made claims on supernatural. If you on about arguing.....it mean you got and want nothing. Why cant you get me white and dry salt from three days soup? That should give you something to do.

Eating razor blade is trick huh? Can you google it and how to do it so that i buy you pack of razor for feeding. Dont run around showing me video of people doing it. It trick and you know it trick. You cant know something without contacting it. Knowledge is based on empirical reasoning and critical analogy.....which is a factual belief. So since you know eating razor is trick, it mean you have confirmed that and well convinced base on logical reasoning that it trick. Now come and show us how it trick by eating one pack of razor blade. You can not just give us a speculation and think we should accept it like that. If you are ready to eat blade to prove it trick, I will take you serious buddy.

rationalmind:

Lol, you can also ask him on my behalf

Lol. Are you a dwarf?

So he should help you with his anus in the toilet when you want to let go your poo? Hmmmm.....guy you get problem.

FOLYKAZE:

Lol. Are you a dwarf?

So he should help you with his anus in the toilet when you want to let go your poo? Hmmmm.....guy you get problem.

Lol, I'm not a dwarf but I certainly will like to grow taller.

I was about asking you too if u have any juju that can make me taller

FOLYKAZE:

Are you for real?

I explained to you that supernatural is a term use to express a not yet understood phenomenon. Is that the fact you want me to present? You want me to explain what doesn't have explanation. Smh. For real, you are here for cheap talk and baseless arguement. I quote Einstein who said Experimentation is truth, logical thinking and analysis cant explain the empirical world. I have challenged you to go for experience, what is the fact you looking for from me? Stop lying around....we know your purpose and it cheap talk or argument. Get something better doing (experiment) than hanging on words. There are more to life than internet and technology.

And where did I say there is something extraordinary in what the woman did on my broken bones? I have initially explained that supernatural is something that we cant fully explain yet but when there are full explanation, it become norms and add up to knowledge. nature is super enough. Pls can you explain how my bone and that of fowl were healed with herbs, concortion and incision? Is incision explanable with logic? For hell sake since it ordinary and simple like 2+2, can you explain logically how incision and herb healed my hand?

The woman that worked on my hand do not know 20 elements, do not have logical analysis or scientifical yet her work succeeded. If you ask her to explain the chemical components in the herb, how fowl bone equates to mine and what coin is doing with bone, she will look you as mad person because she do not know and cant fully understand. I have challenged you to ask the aged papa in your village to list the chemical component in herbs.....DESPITE, THIS HERBS, CONCORSION AND MEDICINE WORKS.

There work aint scientifical but spiritual. And to the best aspect i know, spirituality is compatible with science. Science is bounded between logical explanation and practical display while spirituality have no bounds. You and I know that after counting 1, 2 follows. There is bound and limit among the two BUT looking dip, there is infinite too between the figures. 1.0000000001 to 1.999.....till eternity is between 1 and 2. Normal situation is putting bounds while the infinite is spirituality. So in real sense, you approximate the infinite so that you have one figure/number. Your enquiry on fact is like asking me to count infinte number here. Wtf? The best I can give is approximate spirituality to you which is go and experience it. Or challenge those that made claims on supernatural. If you on about arguing.....it mean you got and want nothing. Why cant you get me white and dry salt from three days soup? That should give you something to do.

Eating razor blade is trick huh? Can you google it and how to do it so that i buy you pack of razor for feeding. Dont run around showing me video of people doing it. It trick and you know it trick. You cant know something without contacting it. Knowledge is based on empirical reasoning and critical analogy.....which is a factual belief. So since you know eating razor is trick, it mean you have confirmed that and well convinced base on logical reasoning that it trick. Now come and show us how it trick by eating one pack of razor blade. You can not just give us a speculation and think we should accept it like that. If you are ready to eat blade to prove it trick, I will take you serious buddy.

honestly its very hard to make out what exactly you're talking about here,its incoherent.on one hand you say ''when did i tell you that what the woman did was extraordinary'' then the next minute you say what she did was spiritual,forgive me if i find that contradictory.ofcourse she wouldn't know what the scietific name of the elements she used are,but she might have another name for it,i still don't understand what point that made.you're peddling pseudoscience by seeing something spiritual in a basic mathematical axiom like the difference between 1 and 2,seems to me you're the one who feels the need to argue baselessly.but well i submit that i've not had any supernatural experience and so i'll leave it to those who claim to have experienced it to show the truth in their claims

rationalmind:

Lol, you can also ask him on my behalf

No, I dont have direct access to Obatala, thats why his priest would be good. I was told once that Ori chooses how a person would look(cripple, short, talk etc.) and if ur Ori is against tallness Obatala priest cant do anything.

They'll just tell u to deal wit ur height and live ur life.

Everyone except for folykaze is agreeing about Nothing, hence the chaos and miscommunication. If someone was as courageous as folykaze, the thread wld have progressed at least a bit.

@joshfirst to be sincere, what if I said I have zero idea of what you mean by supernatural, except that I know you are not adopting the meaning folykaze gave to it.

Wouldn't it be a comedy of errors for you not to have a precise idea/understanding of what you are talking about, and you have been unable to articulate it to the others you are arguing with?!

For me, I define the supernatural as incredible odds overcoming all