A poster, MissMeiya, on a recent thread (www.nairaland.com/1808414/friendzone-picture-photos/8#24615408; www.nairaland.com/1808414/friendzone-picture-photos/7#24615227 ) compared räpe to murder and implied that just as it is improper to accuse a murder victim of culpability in their murder, a woman who was räped can never be considered accountable for it. It cannot be her fault no matter what she did or how she dressed.

There are times however when a killing is ruled excusable. Murder is killing no more than manslaughter is, for instance. But each killing is examined to see if it is excusable. Depending on what is found out, one may be termed a murderer or just a victim of circumstances (self-defence or accidental death) or a manslayer. Generally, the part of the victim of a killing forms a major part of these enquiries.

Thus, the part a woman plays in her räpe matters, at least according to MissMeiya's logic. If we compare with murder, it matters a tremendous deal indeed.

This is not being insensitive at all. Personally I advocate letting people be. I would not advise killing people because they want to kill you any more than I advise that a man should räpe a woman for any reason at all. Still, we cannot have our cake and eat it too. If you cause something and suffer an effect, pointing fingers will only harden you in a position of self-destruction.

At least, that's where MissMeiya's logic leads. What's yours?

I think I'm a bit slow today...because I don't understand this thread.

Ok. Is a woman never culpable if she is räped no matter what the circumstances?

I'm yet to find a reason that justifies råpë. I'm yet to see circumstances where the victim should be blamed. I'm talking of actual rãpë here, not my-boyfriend-went-two-rounds-instead-of-one-round kinda thing.

Bleep being a moderator or supermoderator, you are SICK!!

Caracta: I'm yet to find a reason that justifies råpë. I'm yet to see circumstances where the victim should be blamed. I'm talking of actual rãpë here, not my-boyfriend-went-two-rounds-instead-of-one-round kinda thing.

He is about to start an arguement about indecent dressing and visiting a man while wearing clothes he Terms indecent

Bia, Ihedinobi2, are you not supposed to be a Christian (a preacher at that) does the bible excuse sin? What is wrong with people these days.

Too many perversed minds running around.

Mynd44:
He is about to start an arguement about indecent dressing and visiting a man while wearing clothes he Terms indecent

I'm usually afraid of people who cook up excuses for bad behaviour. It's just like stealing a car because it wasn't secured.

Caracta:

I'm usually afraid of people who cook up excuses for bad behaviour. It's just like stealing a car because it wasn't secured.

Exactly!

ihe, I must disagree with you. Man's laws my allow excuses for sin, but Gods laws do not. There is always a consequence for sin.

It is ludicrous to believe ra.pe is ever justified. It is up to the individual to look away from images/people that are a temptation. We are not justified in committing sin simply because another is temping us. We are charged with controlling ourselves. It is up to us to walk away. If the temptation follows us, it is our job to remove it from our presence, not to give in to it.

Räpe is never justifiable so please cut the crap

Quick question @caracta, have you being a r~ApE victim? Am just curious, thanks in advance

Caracta: I'm yet to find a reason that justifies råpë. I'm yet to see circumstances where the victim should be blamed. I'm talking of actual rãpë here, not my-boyfriend-went-two-rounds-instead-of-one-round kinda thing.

So, like MissMeiya, you believe that there's something wrong with examining a case because there is a victim in it. Like murder.

Mynd44: Bleep being a moderator or supermoderator, you are SICK!!

Wow! You're a supermod now? Congratulations, Mynd. Way to go.


By the way, that's a rather poor rebuttal.

ihedinobi2:
Wow! You're a supermod now? Congratulations, Mynd. Way to go.


By the way, that's a rather poor rebuttal.

You need to see a shrink.....

This your personal quest to pass your point is worrying. Is there more to this mollestation issue?

Mynd44: Bia, Ihedinobi2, are you not supposed to be a Christian (a preacher at that) does the bible excuse sin? What is wrong with people these days.

Too many perversed minds running around.

I am. I'm not really sure how you read this excuse thing. You see, Jesus Himself said that if people commit sins ignorantly, they will still suffer punishment for it but their ignorance will be taken into account so, according to Him, "they shall be beaten with few stripes." Does the Judge's taking their ignorance into account mean that sin is excused? I mean like you mean "excuse sin". Do you mean that?

Bro, no need to get all antagonistic nau. Discussion is allowed, is it not?

Caracta:

I'm usually afraid of people who cook up excuses for bad behaviour. It's just like stealing a car because it wasn't secured.

That's a healthy fear, I suppose. But nobody is cooking up excuses here right now, are they?

Stealing a car because it wasn't secured. That's an interesting thought. But is it realistic to drive into a crime-infested neighborhood and expect your car to remain safe if you do not secure it? If something were to happen to an unsecured car in a crime-infested neighborhood, would the owner be completely free of blame?

sailormoon: Räpe is never justifiable so please cut the crap

Some reason why it is never "justifiable" would push your point farther across, don't you think?

ihedinobi2:

I am. I'm not really sure how you read this excuse thing. You see, Jesus Himself said that if people commit sins ignorantly, they will still suffer punishment for it but their ignorance will be taken into account so, according to Him, "they shall be beaten with few stripes." Does the Judge's taking their ignorance into account mean that sin is excused? I mean like you mean "excuse sin". Do you mean that?

Bro, no need to get all antagonistic nau. Discussion is allowed, is it not?

So do rapists do it ignorantly? Why don't rapists do the same to their mother or sister? How come they look away when it comes to these people but when it comes to someone else they can't?

Is it a case of allowing their own greed to take over them which must not be allowed in a civil world?

No woman is safe close to your dude, seek help. You need it

ihedinobi2:

That's a healthy fear, I suppose. But nobody is cooking up excuses here right now, are they?

Stealing a car because it wasn't secured. That's an interesting thought. But is it realistic to drive into a crime-infested neighborhood and expect your car to remain safe if you do not secure it? If something were to happen to an unsecured car in a crime-infested neighborhood, would the owner be completely free of blame?

Do you watch the program "Bait car"? Police plan with seemingly ordinary folks, leave a car opened, with the keys in the ignition and wait some distance away for people to try to steal it and then the car is shut down automatically via remote, the thief is arrested and taking to court for theft.

Is that entrapment?

You know nothing of laws, still to bending scriptures to suit your wish

Roseey0: Quick question @caracta, have you being a r~ApE victim? Am just curious, thanks in advance

No I haven't...and I do not pray to be. But I relate with situations like this because I work with them. Does that satisfy your curiosity?

texanomaly:

Exactly!

ihe, I must disagree with you. Man's laws my allow excuses for sin, but Gods laws do not. There is always a consequence for sin.

It is ludicrous to believe ra.pe is ever justified. It is up to the individual to look away from images/people that are a temptation. We are not justified in committing sin simply because another is temping us. We are charged with controlling ourselves. It is up to us to walk away. If the temptation follows us, it is our job to remove it from our presence, not to give in to it.

Actually, Tex, man's laws are less accommodating of the circumstances of a crime than God's Law is. Consider this: a man is in debt and defaulting in his duty to pay. The Judge knows that debt should be paid but accommodates his excuse - inability to pay and lets him go when he should have been thrown in jail or sold into slavery to recover the money. He does so because the man begs for mercy.

The same judge sentences the same man to slavery with his whole house because the man went and threw a debtor of his into prison without consideration for his own inability to pay.

Consider also my response to Mynd above that Jesus made clear that justice takes into account every fact, every excuse, every circumstance and tailors reward accordingly. So, evidently, råpe can have circumstances too that mean that the victim shares responsibility.

ihedinobi2:

So, like MissMeiya, you believe that there's something wrong with examining a case because there is a victim in it. Like murder.

No I don't. But like I said, I'm yet to see situations like that. I mean real-life situation from the victim herself. Where a girl (with all her senses intact) removed all her clothes and walked into the den of rapîsts.

ihedinobi2:

Actually, Tex, man's laws are less accommodating of the circumstances of a crime than God's Law is. Consider this: a man is in debt and defaulting in his duty to pay. The Judge knows that debt should be paid but accommodates his excuse - inability to pay and lets him go when he should have been thrown in jail or sold into slavery to recover the money. He does so because the man begs for mercy.

The same judge sentences the same man to slavery with his whole house because the man went and threw a debtor of his into prison without consideration for his own inability to pay.

Consider also my response to Mynd above that Jesus made clear that justice takes into account every fact, every excuse, every circumstance and tailors reward accordingly. So, evidently, råpe can have circumstances too that mean that the victim shares responsibility.

Why not share such and spare us your bent christianity

Caracta:

No I don't. But like I said, I'm yet to see situations like that. I mean real-life situation from the victim herself. Where a girl (with all her senses intact) removed all her clothes and walked into the den of rapîsts.

Even if a girl removed her clothes and walked into a group of men, how can she be have caused her rape? She committed public display of nudity, the men should not take law in their hands.

Mynd44:
Even if a girl removed her clothes and walked into a group of men, how can she be have caused her rape? She committed public display of nudity, the men should not take law in their hands.

Maybe it was a matter of life and death

Caracta:

Maybe it was a matter of life and death

Yeah if the men see a nude or indecently dressed woman and not "do" her, they will die

Mynd44:
Yeah if the men see a nude or indecently dressed woman and not "do" her, they will die

Now how can you blame them for trying to live?

Once upon a time, women used to walk around naked and that wasn't a bug deal. Then one day, an Ad campaign manager decides to sexualize these beautiful creatures just because they'll probably help sell more useless products. Next as the world evolved some more, some people thought it wise to have their brain degenerate back to the years when molesting women was a victory sports of sort, only this time it's really just to satisfy their lustful desires(because come on I don't see anybody fighting a war today )

Now women can't afford to dress up without being looked at as an object.
They are told not to leave their drinks unattended to because some perv out there could spike it and have his way with her.
She's to be ever mindful of waking up the animal in every man she comes in contact with.
Don't wink. Don't smile. Don't touch. Don't breath. Anything could be deemed provocative. In fact, don't live.

You know what, I don't see prostitutes getting molested. What i do see is innocent bystanders hijacked and molested for the most stupid reasons; even people who are properly covered up in countries like India!
I don't know when we got to point where certain atrocities are deemed OK. Some stupid article i read even went to suggest râpe could be men's natural instinct to ensure survival of their gene pool at work(very much like chickens).

*sighs* Mynd and Caracta, you two need to stop making me see threads like this.

Caracta:

Now how can you blame them for trying to live?

Abi ooooo. When they get aroused, if they don't get some "action" ne death. We can't really blame them. That is how they are wired. Hormones and all

Mynd44:
So do rapists do it ignorantly? Why don't rapists do the same to their mother or sister? How come they look away when it comes to these people but when it comes to someone else they can't?

Is it a case of allowing their own greed to take over them which must not be allowed in a civil world?

No woman is safe close to your dude, seek help. You need it

You clearly missed the point in that post. The question is whether it is out of order to consider the circumstances of a crime in passing a sentence not whether ignorance is an issue. Ignorance was named only as an example of an excuse, if you will.

Mynd44:
Do you watch the program "Bait car"? Police plan with seemingly ordinary folks, leave a car opened, with the keys in the ignition and wait some distance away for people to try to steal it and then the car is shut down automatically via remote, the thief is arrested and taking to court for theft.

Is that entrapment?

You know nothing of laws, still to bending scriptures to suit your wish

I don't watch the program. But it does sound like entrapment. How are we to know that those car thieves would have been car thieves if there were no cars to steal?

By the way, organizations like the FBI had issues like that some time ago, I think, in the 80s/90s or so. Did the temptation make the sinner or was the sinner always a sinner? How can you tell?

Ujsizzle, I am sorry we bring you here but I just can't deny a good thread when I see one. Especially one that tells me I can jack my landlord's daughter and still blame her for it. Just divine