jpphilips:

sorry bros, just help me put the right phrase, while doing that, Kindly read meaning into the rest of the message to garner support for our doctors, like I told a friend of mine, it is we the patients that will suffer most if the status quo is not restored.

Look at the competition between the BSc Nurses and the Registered nurses (all JOHESU members) and now they want consultancy?
I don't want a nurse to tell me she is a consultant who can no longer pack sh!!t in the ward.

Tbamo:
So you think a house officer and an intern in the lab or pharm intern do the same things or have the same responsibilities? And so should earn the same?
During your internship can you be sued for malpractice as a pharmacist?
What do you do during your calls?
How many life threatening cases do you engage as a pharmacy intern?
And you want to earn the same as the doctor?

adeoladrg:

Admit that they make mistakes that kill patients! Mistakes that would have been avoided if we had an all-inclusive system with experts of pharmacist consultants and nurse consultants! Just admit!

jpphilips:


Of course I am not a patient, I am brandishing a patient's point of view, why do you want me to become a patient at this my prime and what do you want to infect me with to endear such demeaning status?

Owning a patient? any body who is not conversant with that parlance has never been admitted before, what does it take to figure it out? On admission the nurse says wait for doctor for this, wait for a doctor for that, Is it not commonsense to decipher who owns the patient?
why do you people really think that every Nigerian is a m0r0n?

adeoladrg:

You think this is a fight about owning the patient? You'll understand better when you lose a loved one to a doctor's mistake that could have been corrected by a pharmacist or nurse.

Iwegbadu:

Then go to the hospital and go and treat patients now, what are you waiting for? Doctors are not in the hospital setting now so go and kill sorry treat the patients. People claim they can do better till they are in the position. Better shut up oh ye female

GentleMimi:
Young man,being a consultant does not mean ''ownership'' of a human being. It means being an expert in ur field of work,so as to be able to give advice and top notch contributions towards the improvement of services.
the posts have four key functions: expert practice (max. 50%); research, evaluation and service development; education, mentoring and overview of practice; professional leadership.

adeoladrg:

No one is claiming to be better than the doctor.. No one will ever be better than the doctor. You've failed to admit the truth staring you in the face. I have no words for you!

adeoladrg:

Simple as ABC!!!

jpphilips:

I have seen a lot of residents whom the experienced nurses direct on how best to apply their knowledge, it is nothing new and I wont lose anyone over it except you.

In companies it happens and we don't complain, Management can decide to bring a small boy expert who knows nothing, mandate you to teach him while I end every lecture with "YES SIR", kini big deal!!

If you want to be like the small boy, by all means, become an expatriate.

GentleMimi: Sai! Patient's perspective indeed.
I weep for this country. I've followed this strike ish for quite some time,even had a debate with some colleagues.
I read an article online abt the requests of the doctors. Nobody is disputing it. They want increase in hazard allowance to N100,000 per month,and some other things too. That is fine by us. But for NMA to boldly come out,stating it will not condone ''blackmail'' by health workers is so annoying. How does the title of ''Consultant'' result to blackmail? Is it something that has never been done before? Is it strange in other countries? Why are the doctors hell bent on being an obstacle to the progress of other health workers?
Now,back to the issue of consultant,let it be known that there are conditions attatched to the title. Medical scientists,pharmacists,nurses,physiotherapists attain educational level of Phd in their profession.
For example,a medical scientist specializes in haematology in masters and Phd level,obtains his fellows and satisfies all requirements by the MLSCN council. Why should such a fellow with vast knowledge in haematology not be allowed to consult with the patient and the patient's doctor on matters relating to haematological matters? It irks when i read some comments here.

GentleMimi: In terms of salary,lets have a rethink. For example,as an intern,a scientist earns N120K, a doctor/house officer earns N170K-N180. Now JOHESU requests for an increase,relative to CONMESS scale....N150/160k. Why NMA wan come get HBP on top the matter? All JOHESU is asking for is a relative increase. Peeps who are shouting abt job the rigors of the medical duty should not undermine what other health workers go through. Being on call in haematology laboratory in a teaching hospital is like being on a rollercoaster!
It is the same time too. So what is wrong abt JOHESU requesting for shift duty/call duty allowance and other special allowance.

GentleMimi: As an intern,hazard allowance was a mere N10k. What d hell! We handle body fluids too and get exposed to all the vile things running amok.

GentleMimi: Those who want privatization of other health sectors are living in a fool's paradise. Who can afford it? Services in the health sector is highly subsidized,but still expensive for certain peeps.
Privatization will only make things worse.

GentleMimi: And for the skipping of a thing,why are doctors against skipping when they are doing it? They skip from 10 to 12,we want a skip from 9 to 11. Why dem wan get headache? Lol! *SMH*
finally,on the issue of CMD,i will state here boldly that i have no qualms with doctors being the CMDs. All we ask for is professional courtsey.

phantom: theory! oga go and get a masters and PhD in an area of pharmacy then I will call you a consultant BUT if you people think you will get your CONSULTANCY while you sit and dispense drugs all day,please think again.

centje:

To make it simple, there's difference between laboratory medicine and clinical medicine.




Good, you recognised 'Relativity'. We are asking for the same thing. Every paramedic whose work involves call gets call duty allowance, don't deceive the public. And the call may or may not be the same length of time but definitely not the same volume of work. The issue here is that certain health workers, like the nurses, want a call duty when they run shift. Shift work is far less stressful and it's designed in such a way that you get your benefit immediately. A nurse works 8hours for some days and get some days off. If he or she works 8hours at night, then more days off follow. A doctor works from monday morning to friday. On saturday, call duty begins till another monday morning, he or she manages to go home to change cloth( which in some cases the person may continue in the same cloth) and hit the hospital again for the monday's work. It's a stressful system, sometimes i call it archaic, but that's what's on ground, hence the call duty allowance. A senator will fart all day on that red cushion and collect millions at month end.



Really!!!! yours is 10k you're really enjoying.
Doctors' hazard allowance is 5k, after mingling with blood of a HIV, Hepatitis B and C patient, after standing for hours beside a TB patient in the ward, after blood splash on the eyes, getting knife cut, and needle prick, from HIV patient during surgery

why are you scared of privatisation, could it be that everyone's position will be well defined and rewarded accordingly...could it be that everyone will now know who works more...oh, maybe the private owner will know who has more vast skills and calculate wages based on that. The possibilities are endless.
Everyone knows how it works in private hospitals. It's only in government hospital, where the salary comes from oil revenue and not based on productivity, that such things can happen.
No matter how subsidized healthcare is, the Government (both federal and state), appreciates the huge amount they generate from the sector.
And just like power sector, people are prepared to pay more provided they get uninterrupted and good quality service.

skipping has always been there for everyone, heavily enjoyed by paramedics. The only problem was that some paramedics wanted additional skipping. Personally, skipping is bull$hit, whether for Doctors or Non-doctors. I am of the opinion that every level is earned.
Professional courtesy is reciprocal. It's natural to fight and oppose those in authority. The same way we fight the president, is the same way paramedics fight and oppose doctors, 'cause they head hospitals, tag them arrogant. A doctor, politely tells a nurse what to do for a patient, he or she first looks the doctor from head to toe. If the work is not done as directed, and the doctor complains, he is tagged arrogant. In the aim to gain relevance, a lot of Nurses have grown so aggressive, in recent times, that patients are too scared to approach them when in the ward.
Professional courtesy is more of a personally imbibed trait not stamped to a specific profession or occupation.

sogodihno: Relativity in health sector: Dia's enough relativity now, other start frm grade 9 or 10. u guys start frm grade 12, yet wat do u want? is it dat u want other to start frm grade 6 and u guys start frm grade 15?
Consultant? ao does it affect u guys, dz A d pple yoruba called "ANIKANJOPON". If u put yrself in a position of respect nobody will dishonor u.
In OAU, all health sciences and pharmacy pay d same sch fees. am not sure of others. so if d sch fees for medical students is higher dan others in ur sch, dt's ur own cup of tea. U shud av come to OAU if u fink others paying less dan u is a problem
Again and again, not all health professional wan to study medicine, and dont say all other health profesional fail out of medical sch, in OAU wen u fail out of medical sch u cant go to other all health science.
Once again, patient view? patient view indeed. u dont talk abt dia demand of apointin surgeon general yet dz A d pple dt dont want other to b apoint as consultant. 100,000 for health hazard alowance, A u d only one dt av contact wth d patient? wat abt nurses and medical lab scientist dt mostly do d dirty work, wat abt dia special plate no? dey wil son ask for special road so dt dia wont b odd up, in case of emergency. Wat u said u dont want for others u A claiming it for yrself. SMH.
D point is NMA is loosing it dignity and valu gradually, u A in stike for almost 2 wks and u still cant achieve anytin, dey tink wen dey stike for even 2 days FG wil come to dem begging. Wen u pple A tire u will go back to work.
GREEDINESS at it peak

Iwegbadu:

Opebi what truth is that? U sound like a well mannered reasonable girl. Why are you guys not in the hospital taking over. Hasnt the rule been passed

adeoladrg:

Admit that they make mistakes that kill patients! Mistakes that would have been avoided if we had an all-inclusive system with experts of pharmacist consultants and nurse consultants! Just admit!

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) - have initiated countless cases against nurses in the United States, between 1998 and 2001, they have initiated well over 413 cases of malpractice,http://www.nursingcenter.com/lnc/journalarticle?article_id=423284

adeoladrg:

nother ignorant fellow on the street. Having a PhD doesn't make you a consultant. Residency training does! Meanwhile, we have the technicians and robots (in advanced countries) to dispense. It's called pharmaceutical care, get it!!!

jpphilips:


I disagree with that, now this quote below is what will save the patient's life, an excerpt from my original post.





you guys form Unions and organizations to make money but up there you can read what JCAHO is doing for the Americans, when will JOHESU and NMA start legal action against its members in the interest of the patient?

You cannot convince me beyond reasonable doubt that a Nurse consultant who cant own a patient will improve my welfare except you are referring to the welfare of her economy, then i agree completely.

GentleMimi:
Young man,being a consultant does not mean ''ownership'' of a human being. It means being an expert in ur field of work,so as to be able to give advice and top notch contributions towards the improvement of services.
the posts have four key functions: expert practice (max. 50%); research, evaluation and service development; education, mentoring and overview of practice; professional leadership.

malbruno: my dear, u have Said it all, just an addition d consultants are meant to specialize in a particular area of study like consultant gyenocologist, consultant urologist etc. Their role differ, so it will be for Consultant chem pathologist, consultant haematologist consultant pharmacist when they have got the requisit qualification. How is it affecting other consultants who shld face their own specialty. what kind egocentric set of human beings

adeoladrg:

Oh cool, you must have also seen experienced pharmacist correct doctors on the use of drugs! Probably tell the doctor or a not-so-expensive drug to use for a particular condition, or device a better route of administration or an alternative therapy and lots more. We want more knowledge, we want more specialization! WE WANT TO UNDERGO RESIDENCY TRAINING FOR 6 YEARS? 7? 8? WHATEVER!

It adds to patient care! IT'S NOT ABOUT OWNING THE PATIENTS!

The title “Consultant” in a hospital setting describes the relationship between the Specialist Medical Doctor and his patient. It will be a source of confusion if the title is applied to any other health worker who statutorily does not own patient. NMA therefore declares with unmitigated emphasis that if “non-doctor consultants” are appointed, it will lead to chaos and anarchy in the health sector. This should not happen.

adeoladrg:

The rule has been passed, I won't tell you its not about taking over the doctors again.. Bye!

Moreover, I'm a guy!!!

adeoladrg:

You think this is a fight about owning the patient? You'll understand better when you lose a loved one to a doctor's mistake that could have been corrected by a pharmacist or nurse.

chucs: This patient perspective favours the doctors . I think the writer does not have a clear understanding of the subject matter.

sogodihno: Relativity in health sector: Dia's enough relativity now, other start frm grade 9 or 10. u guys start frm grade 12, yet wat do u want? is it dat u want other to start frm grade 6 and u guys start frm grade 15?
Consultant? ao does it affect u guys, dz A d pple yoruba called "ANIKANJOPON". If u put yrself in a position of respect nobody will dishonor u.
In OAU, all health sciences and pharmacy pay d same sch fees. am not sure of others. so if d sch fees for medical students is higher dan others in ur sch, dt's ur own cup of tea. U shud av come to OAU if u fink others paying less dan u is a problem
Again and again, not all health professional wan to study medicine, and dont say all other health profesional fail out of medical sch, in OAU wen u fail out of medical sch u cant go to other all health science.
Once again, patient view? patient view indeed. u dont talk abt dia demand of apointin surgeon general yet dz A d pple dt dont want other to b apoint as consultant. 100,000 for health hazard alowance, A u d only one dt av contact wth d patient? wat abt nurses and medical lab scientist dt mostly do d dirty work, wat abt dia special plate no? dey wil son ask for special road so dt dia wont b odd up, in case of emergency. Wat u said u dont want for others u A claiming it for yrself. SMH.
D point is NMA is loosing it dignity and valu gradually, u A in stike for almost 2 wks and u still cant achieve anytin, dey tink wen dey stike for even 2 days FG wil come to dem begging. Wen u pple A tire u will go back to work.
GREEDINESS at it peak

jpphilips:

@ Ade

You are shifting the goal post, is Residency the latest demand now? haba! I think I will have to abandon this thread because the whole furore don pass patient.

this is the NMA's demand that poised me to open this thread, I did not see any residency there, or do I need a glass?

5minsmadness:
Bullshit.
Everybody makes mistakes. The nurse or pharmacist doesn't have to become consultants to correct a doctors mistake. And even if they become consultants mistakes will still be made.

jpphilips:






I was meant to understand that JOHESU is at the fore front of demanding for the position of "consultant" in their various fields. As a patient who care less about medical politics and bureaucracy, I was meant to understand that the Doctor consultant actually owns the patient, by "owning" I mean calls the final shot on the treatment regime of a patient.
The big question is; what qualifies a consultant doctor (not any charge and bail doctor) to own a patient?

Research has proven that the Consultant doctor is one who has a general knowledge of every aspect of medicine who later specializes in a single aspect. That gives him the academic superiority to claim responsibility on the welfare of a patient, then I ask; what is wrong with that?

who else in the Hospital is a contender, JOHESU is demanding that the Lab scientist can become a consultant, then in my Medical naive I asked on what grounds?
Till date (probably the outcome of this thread will give me a convincing answer) I am yet to hear any logical reason as to why that needs to happen.

the first question I asked was, will the consultant Lab scientist own the patient? If the Answer is "YES" then why will I entrust the last call on my treatment in the hands of a lab scientist who knows nothing about my pulmonary disease which requires a surgery he cannot perform?

If the answer is "NO" then why do we need that "half baked consultant" that cannot own a patient? Further more, I was meant to understand that the consultant position is highly respected and it comes with benefits and perks (economic motivation), could it be that JOHESU is targeting these benefits? let us find out.






From the above conversation, you can easily deduce that the whole strike is just petty politics and unmerited power tussle, my own annoyance is that people who want to live and earn like consultants refuse to broaden their curriculum to acquire more knowledge but they want to enjoy like people who have accomplished theirs.

If a theater nurse who have spent countless years in a Theater with a surgeon will not go on strike for the Govt to extend her curriculum to cover other areas of health care delivery, why will she be interested in being a consultant?

The second argument is that it is obtainable outside Nigeria (of course, countries not plagued by nepotism and corruption like ours), this is the most ridiculous because every country has the reserve to make laws that suit their environment, juxtaposing foreign health care delivery with Nigeria's is laughable.


Let us quickly look at the following facts to dissect the actual medical practice we need to import from abroad;

The Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) - have initiated countless cases against nurses in the United States, between 1998 and 2001, they have initiated well over 413 cases of malpractice,http://www.nursingcenter.com/lnc/journalarticle?article_id=423284

Fellow Nigerians, I am still waiting for the day JOHESU will go on strike to demand for a law or act that will empower it to prosecute its members for "Negligence" as it is obtainable elsewhere viz a viz "International best practices" or are we saying that Nigerians don't loose their lives in the care of JOHESU members? JOHESU in their infinite wisdom is demanding for the big title "consultant" but uninterested in taking responsibility for the welfare of the patient, neither are they interested in a broad curriculum for effective health care delivery that will benefit the patient in the long run, all they are interested is "GIVE THEE THY TITLE OH! GOVT, FOR WE SHALL CHOP LIKE THE DOCTORS AT ALL COST" it is a shame, nothing in it for the patients.

Since JOHESU is kind enough to borrow "international best practices" let us look further;

In the United states, nurses are entitled to great tax benefits, reimbursements for academic career advances/school loans-sign on and relocation bonuses for less work!

The bold part is an incentive that will motivate a nurse to improve academically for a better health care delivery, I am yet to hear that JOHESU wants to strike for the inability of the Govt. to provide such academic soft landing.

At this verge I am forced to conclude that JOHESU is not interested in anything that will advance their members academically but that big name that will guarantee more money in their pockets. it is a shame.








[color=#000099]As much as I am of the opinion that the controversial arrears should be negotiated in the interest of patients with terminal illness, however ,NMA "MUST" not compromise on Relativity.
Relativity I was meant to understand is the parity in earning between doctors and other health care providers.

Nature follows the path of least resistance, the reason people still study hard to aspire to go through the rigors of medical school is because of the perks that comes with being a doctor, those privileges "MUST" never be compromised.

Any attempt to harmonize their benefit will not only enthrone incompetence in health care delivery but will make medicine unattractive.
why will i go through medical school when I will enjoy same benefit with a doctor as a parasitologist?

We lost most of our best Doctors to Saudi Arabia in the 80's in related circumstance.

On what grounds should an air hostess earn the same as the Pilot? just because she feels she serves coffee to the passengers? what kind of logic are we throwing around in Nigeria? If an air hostess want the same perks and privilege as a Pil

adeoladrg:

Dear patients, just imagine the kind of doctor you want to entrust your life with!!!