THe reason am schooling you on elementary CHristian doctrines such as tongues is probably because Corinthians are Spiritual giants compared to you

shdemidemi:


1 Corinthians 3 King James Version (KJV)

3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Always have this in hindsight when reading this book.

vooks:
THe reason am schooling you on elementary CHristian doctrines such as tongues is probably because Corinthians are Spiritual giants compared to you

Are you joking?

I think you are running out of words cos I don't think anyone is schooling anyone here. We are simply contending and not teaching.

We can as well end it rather than stoke up personal jabs at each other.

vooks:

The 120 did witness AFTER Pentecost but they NEVER witnessed in the supernatural tongues. I just showed you that Peter preached in Hebrews the very first sermon after the baptism of the Holy Spirit. What Bible do you use that records the use of tongue(s) in spreading the gospel?

Now if they were not witnessing/testifying Christ in tongues, what were they doing?

So don't tell me to THINK. You started it and now it hurts. You are a funny guy

I lack the energy to engage in galloping instead of focusing on one point at a time. This discussion is farcical, full of lose threads and dead ends. Human traditions are powerful things. many men hold them and readily drop the Word of God. They are worse than unbelief

Circular argument...that guy was deadly descriptive

shdemidemi:


Are you joking?

I think you are running out of words cos I don't think anyone is schooling anyone here. We are simply contending and not teaching.

We can as well end it rather than stoke up personal jabs at each other.

Peter is preaching at Cornelius house.
Holy Spirit comes upon the house.
They are speaking in tongues
Are they testifying?
To whom are they testifying seeing all have received the gift and the only other guys in the room are believers?

Acts 2:7-11 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.”

Acts 10:44-46 English Standard Version (ESV)
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,


You can't possibly call whatever happened in Acts 2 witnessing and preaching the gospel in tongues. If it were then there ws no need for Peter to stand up and preach or was the speaking in tongues not sufficient to convert souls?

Is it safe to state that on the ONLY two instances where Spirit gift of tongues is manifested and understood, God is praised/extolled?

shdemidemi:


Now if they were not witnessing/testifying Christ in tongues, what were they doing?

vooks:
Peter is preaching at Cornelius house.
Holy Spirit comes upon the house.
They are speaking in tongues
Are they testifying?
To whom are they testifying seeing all have received the gift and the only other guys in the room are believers?

[b] Acts 2:7-11 English Standard Version (ESV)
7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—[size=22pt]we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God[/size].”

Isn't this translation enough to tell you they were speaking about God to the people.

vooks:

Acts 10:44-46 English Standard Version (ESV)
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, [/b]

vooks:
Is it safe to state that on the ONLY two instances where Spirit gift of tongues is manifested and understood, God is praised/extolled?

Error! It was manifested three times in this book of Acts-

Acts 2:6

"Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."


This is the first time in Scripture that we have a manifestation of the Holy Spirit given to men - this gift of speaking known languages, but which was not intrinsic to their own education. In other words, where did Peter and most of the disciples come from? Galilee.

They were uneducated fishermen, and all of a sudden here they are speaking the various languages that were evident there on the day of Pentecost. It was miraculous, and it was the work of the Holy Spirit, but as Paul said in I Corinthians, who were these men talking to? Other men, and what was the purpose? To bring them salvation.

That's the whole purpose of this Book from cover to cover. The purpose is that mankind might hear the plan of salvation, and it was the same way at Pentecost. Peter and these other disciples were promoting the Gospel of the Kingdom, that Jesus was the Christ, but they were doing it in languages that everyone could understand, so it had a divine purpose.

The second time it happened-

Acts 10:45b,46

"....as many as came with Peter (these six Jews) because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (how did they know?) For they heard them (the Gentiles) speak with tongues (known languages) and magnify God..."


Were they talking to God? NO! They were talking to fellow men and they were magnifying God in the presence of these seven Jews, as well as the members of the house of Cornelius, and there is no manifestation of an unknown language here or a guttural sound. It was speaking languages. That's the second time that the Holy Spirit was manifested by giving the gift of speaking more language than they were normally living with.

Now the third and last time that this happens in the whole of Acts is in Chapter 19. The first time it happened to Jews in Chapter 2 - strictly Jews. The second time it happens - to a whole house of Gentiles.

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

vooks:

You can't possibly call whatever happened in Acts 2 witnessing and preaching the gospel in tongues. If it were then there ws no need for Peter to stand up and preach or was the speaking in tongues not sufficient to convert souls?

I believe they did exactly what Jesus said they would do. Peter took the opportunity since everyone had come out to see them. He delivered his first sermon. What is the problem with that.

vooks:
So don't tell me to THINK. You started it and now it hurts. You are a funny guy

I lack the energy to engage in galloping instead of focusing on one point at a time. This discussion is farcical, full of lose threads and dead ends. Human traditions are powerful things. many men hold them and readily drop the Word of God. They are worse than unbelief

Circular argument...that guy was deadly descriptive

Your opinion is exclusively yours. You have your preconceived ideas that you you will rather defend with every trick in your bag. Well, it's quite impossible to shake hands with a clenched fist. I am done here.

Bidam:
Bro quit playing to the gallery and deviating, i just asked you a question from scripture not from my imagination. Let's forget about Nigeria issues for now and look at the blueprint from the NT. Look at what Paul is telling the Corinthians which applies to you as well.Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 1 cor 12:1 NIV.
And the purpose of the thread is to correct your misinformed mind concerning prophecy too which is a gift that has not ceased in the body of Christ.

Hear Paul AGAIN. “Let two or three Prophets speak, and let the others judge.
30But if anything is revealed to another who sits by let the first
keep silent.” (1 Corinthians 14:29-30) Don't forget he encourages the Corinthians to desire the gift of prophecy which you despise because of the abuse in Nigeria in 1 cor 14:1.

Your friend shdemidemi talks about correction because of the carnality of the Corinthians but it was the same Paul that told the Thessalonians not to despise prophesying as you folks are doing here.(1 Thessalonians 5:20).

My bro.you are trying so hard to equate the prophetic ministry to merrly prophecy and thats misinformation.would you call Saul a prophet because he prophesy in the OT?
Prophecy is jus an aspect in the ministry of a prophet.a true prophet of the NT expounds the word of God,that is declaring the FUll GOSPEL of CHRIST to th Church.question is why would he be declaring the Gospel to thé body of Christ?.......its because the sole aim of the his ministry is for *RECOVERY* something that is lost in the begining.as it is in the OT,so it is in the NT.
Details ?maybe later.

So much for vain human traditions that teach that edifying self is sin but edifying church isn't? What thinking is that!

shdemidemi:


Your opinion is exclusively yours. You have your preconceived ideas you will rather defend with every trick in your bag. Well, it's quite impossible to shake hands with a clenched fist. I am done here.

Nowhere do we have the gift of tongues used to testify nothing.

Let me educate you on what it means to witness and testify;

Acts 10:42-43 (KJV)
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Here is Peter explaining what witness is all about. I have asked you a commonsensical question. If during Pentecost the 120 had been doing this in other tongues, was it necessary for Peter to stand up and preach?

Two instances you are told in other tongues they extolled God, magnified God and this last one I had missed and thank you for pointing it, they prophesied. None of that is testifying of what Peter said they were commanded to do in Acts 10:42-43

So once again my brother, where in the entire scriptures or even outside do you have a record of Holy Spirit coming upon a person and them preaching or testifying about Christ in a language they never learned?

On what basis then do you claim that speaking in tongues was preaching/testifying about Jesus Christ in a language you never learned?

And finally, is Peter's sermon in Acts 2 :14-40 delivered in a language he never learned? What language is that?

shdemidemi:


Isn't this translation enough to tell you they were speaking about God to the people.




Error! It was manifested three times in this book of Acts-

Acts 2:6

"Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."


This is the first time in Scripture that we have a manifestation of the Holy Spirit given to men - this gift of speaking known languages, but which was not intrinsic to their own education. In other words, where did Peter and most of the disciples come from? Galilee.

They were uneducated fishermen, and all of a sudden here they are speaking the various languages that were evident there on the day of Pentecost. It was miraculous, and it was the work of the Holy Spirit, but as Paul said in I Corinthians, who were these men talking to? Other men, and what was the purpose? To bring them salvation.

That's the whole purpose of this Book from cover to cover. The purpose is that mankind might hear the plan of salvation, and it was the same way at Pentecost. Peter and these other disciples were promoting the Gospel of the Kingdom, that Jesus was the Christ, but they were doing it in languages that everyone could understand, so it had a divine purpose.

The second time it happened-

Acts 10:45b,46

"....as many as came with Peter (these six Jews) because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (how did they know?) For they heard them (the Gentiles) speak with tongues (known languages) and magnify God..."


Were they talking to God? NO! They were talking to fellow men and they were magnifying God in the presence of these seven Jews, as well as the members of the house of Cornelius, and there is no manifestation of an unknown language here or a guttural sound. It was speaking languages. That's the second time that the Holy Spirit was manifested by giving the gift of speaking more language than they were normally living with.

Now the third and last time that this happens in the whole of Acts is in Chapter 19. The first time it happened to Jews in Chapter 2 - strictly Jews. The second time it happens - to a whole house of Gentiles.

19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.




I believe they did exactly what Jesus said they would do. Peter took the opportunity since everyone had come out to see them. He delivered his first sermon. What is the problem with that.

shdemidemi,

I have observed that you have vowed to shy away from 1Corinthians because it contradicts everything you have been fed. Somebody is not ashamed of discrediting an inspired epistle just so that they may not read it and receive its truth.

1 Cor 14:14-15 (KJV)
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also

Did you know that tongues are used in prayer? This is straight off he Inspired scriptures and not fantasies or straining verses to fit my doctrine. So when I pray in an unknown tongue, it is my spirit-man praying not my brains. How praying with my spirit is rendered obsolete just because now I have New Testament?

And you are yet to explain to us how we should deal with demoniacs seeing the sign of casting out demons is long expired. Have you ever met a demon-possessed person?

vooks:
shdemidemi,

I have observed that you have vowed to shy away from 1Corinthians because it contradicts everything you have been fed. Somebody is not ashamed of discrediting an inspired epistle just so that they may not read it and receive its truth.

you are beginning to sound like one conceited bloke. In what way have I avoided any verse in our discussion. I have quoted from the same 1 corinthians so I don't think you know what you are talking about.

vooks:

1 Cor 14:14-15 (KJV)
Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also

What did Paul say about those who say they pray (not in tongues) in an unknown tongue? He says pray that you may be able to interpret what you are saying.

what good would it do to talk to God in some language that you don't know what you're saying? Even if God is able to discern it, what if you can't? You don't know what you're asking for, and this is what Paul is pointing out. Whatever you do while communicating with God, do it in understanding.

I took time to explain the circumstances that surround this particular Book or Letter. It is important that we know the circumstances, and that makes all the difference in understanding.

Paul understood that the only way that you can bring people around to the truth is in the spirit of love, you don't slap them in the face with anger, or ridicule, and put them down as some kind of dummy, but in the spirit of love bring them around to the truth.

Paul is writing to these weak, carnal, fleshly, believers that have just come out of abject immorality in Corinth. He's writing to correct them because they had so many problems. So the whole theme of I Corinthians is to correct problems, and this whole letter has to be studied in that light.

vooks:

Did you know that tongues are used in prayer? This is straight off he Inspired scriptures and not fantasies or straining verses to fit my doctrine. So when I pray in an unknown tongue, it is my spirit-man praying not my brains. How praying with my spirit is rendered obsolete just because now I have New Testament?
And you are yet to explain to us how we should deal with demoniacs seeing the sign of casting out demons is long expired. Have you ever met a demon-possessed person?

I am not one who believe demons can cohabit with God in the body of a believer. Tongues or prayers does not stop demons either. But the knowledge of Christ is the only deliverance from all kind demons you want to present.

The bible says in John 8:32 2 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The truth you know is what will set you free, not tongues.

vooks:

So once again my brother, where in the entire scriptures or even outside do you have a record of Holy Spirit coming upon a person and them preaching or testifying about Christ in a language they never learned?

On what basis then do you claim that speaking in tongues was preaching/testifying about Jesus Christ in a language you never learned?

And finally, is Peter's sermon in Acts 2 :14-40 delivered in a language he never learned? What language is that?

Did Jesus tell them this- [size=22pt]But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.[/size]

If he did, were they speaking to God when the power came upon them or being witnesses of what they had seen?

You said earlier that 'witness' is the same word as 'testimony', remember?

If the Word say they (not just Peter) will all testify and be witnesses of what they have seen, I completely believe they did.

What good does it do to pray in an unknown tongue? Your spirit prays. Somebody reminded you that in Romans, the Spirit intercedes with unutterable groans. if those are the same thing as praying in an unknown tongue, it is still effective because your spirit prays the PERFECT will of God. But Paul would have you understand that perfect will by interpreting your own tongues. Rocket science?

Again and again, I have dozens of resources on Corinthians so if I really needed the circumstances of the book I have innumerable resources over the same. It is your arrogant insinuation that you possess some knowledge about the circumstances of COrinthians without which plain reading of the epistle is in vain. I know the game. Start a thread on the circumstances of the book and keep references to the same on this discussion to a bare minimum

Jesus gave a gift to the disciples of casting out demons. Nobody said demons can inhabit Christians or whatever you imagine. The fact remains demon possession is as real today as back in 34AD. What privileges do you have that those early Christians don't have as far as spiritual warfare is concerned? Supposing a demon possessed sinner repents in 50 AD, would the demons come out automatically? What about the 2014 sinner?

The truth is scriptures not phony arguments like self-edification vs church-edification nonsense. Or meaningless semantics such as tongue vs tongues

shdemidemi:


you are beginning to sound like one conceited bloke. In what way have I avoided any verse in our discussion. I have quoted from the same 1 corinthians so I don't think you know what you are talking about.


What did Paul say about those who say they pray (not in tongues) in an unknown tongue? He says pray that you may be able to interpret what you are saying.

what good would it do to talk to God in some language that you don't know what you're saying? Even if God is able to discern it, what if you can't? You don't know what you're asking for, and this is what Paul is pointing out. Whatever you do while communicating with God, do it in understanding.

I took time to explain the circumstances that surround this particular Book or Letter. It is important that we know the circumstances, and that makes all the difference in understanding.

Paul understood that the only way that you can bring people around to the truth is in the spirit of love, you don't slap them in the face with anger, or ridicule, and put them down as some kind of dummy, but in the spirit of love bring them around to the truth.

Paul is writing to these weak, carnal, fleshly, believers that have just come out of abject immorality in Corinth. He's writing to correct them because they had so many problems. So the whole theme of I Corinthians is to correct problems, and this whole letter has to be studied in that light.



I am not one who believe demons can cohabit with God in the body of a believer. Tongues or prayers does not stop demons either. But the knowledge of Christ is the only deliverance from all kind demons you want to present.

The bible says in John 8:32 2 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The truth you know is what will set you free, not tongues.

We also know Jesus commanded the disciples to go and testify/witness and we know/trust they did

On Pentecost,
1. we have the disciples speaking in tongues...ALL of them and they spoke of wonder works of God
2. We have Peter preaching and testifying about Christ resurrection and thousands turning to Christ the very thing in Acts 10 he tells Cornelius Christ commanded them to do

Where do we have disciples testifying about Jesus Christ in unknown tongues?

shdemidemi:


Did Jesus tell them this- But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

If he did, were they speaking to God when the power came upon them or being witnesses of what they had seen?

You said earlier that 'witness' is the same word as 'testimony', remember?

If the Word say they (not just Peter) will all testify and be witnesses of what they have seen, I completely believe they did.

vooks:
What good does it do to pray in an unknown tongue? Your spirit prays. Somebody reminded you that in Romans, the Spirit intercedes with unutterable groans. if those are the same thing as praying in an unknown tongue, it is still effective because your spirit prays the PERFECT will of God. But Paul would have you understand that perfect will by interpreting your own tongues. Rocket science?

Please go check the difference between 'spirit' with the small 's' and Spirit with the capital 's'. Praying within the realm of your spirit is different from the Spirit praying for you. The Spirit knows the heart of God and His complete will hence He intercede for us.

vooks:

Again and again, I have dozens of resources on Corinthians so if I really needed the circumstances of the book I have innumerable resources over the same. It is your arrogant insinuation that you possess some knowledge about the circumstances of COrinthians without which plain reading of the epistle is in vain. I know the game. Start a thread on the circumstances of the book and keep references to the same on this discussion to a bare minimum

ok, I am no more avoiding the chapter, I am now playing games right?

vooks:

Jesus gave a gift to the disciples of casting out demons. Nobody said demons can inhabit Christians or whatever you imagine. The fact remains demon possession is as real today as back in 34AD. What privileges do you have that those early Christians don't have as far as spiritual warfare is concerned? Supposing a demon possessed sinner repents in 50 AD, would the demons come out automatically? What about the 2014 sinner?

The truth is scriptures not phony arguments like self-edification vs church-edification nonsense. Or meaningless semantics such as tongue vs tongues

Can you point to one christian in scripture that got possessed by demons?

vooks:

We also know Jesus commanded the disciples to go and testify/witness and we know/trust they did

On Pentecost,
1. we have the disciples speaking in tongues...ALL of them
2. We have Peter preaching and testifying about Christ resurrection and thousands turning to Christ

Where do we have disciples testifying about Jesus Christ in unknown tongues?

What were the 120 doing that attracted all the people?

Did they just storm out to the street to pray to God for self edification in other people's language?

Can we get serious for a moment?

Spiritual gifts are Spirit of God manifesting Himself in a believer. When a demon-possessed man came to Jesus, the demons inside the man spoke THROUGH his body/mouth. When you are Spirit baptized, the Spirit animates your spirit and your spirit prays through your body/mouth without consulting your brains. So when the Spirit groans, He groans THROUGH your body.

The game is called digression where you inject unnecessary and completely unrelated points to a discussion to stall it.

What was the utility of casting out demons in Mark 16?

shdemidemi:


Please go check the difference between 'spirit' with the small 's' and Spirit with the capital 's'. Praying within the realm of your spirit is different from the Spirit praying for you. The Spirit knows the heart of God and His complete will hence He intercede for us.

ok, I am no more avoiding the chapter, I am now playing games right?


Can you point to one christian in scripture that got possessed by demons?

They were PRAYING in one accord. It is the noise emanating from that upper room that attracted men.

1 Cor 14:23 (KJV)
If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

This is EXACTLY what happened on Pentecost; a group of 120 praying loudly in diverse tongues simultaneously. Outsiders be like, ' they drunk' Others got curious. See, when it comes to the Spirit, there are always these two; the ones who revile what they don't understand, and the others who get curious. You have been busy reviling the Work of Holy Spirit here instead of getting curious. You can bet it is the latter (curious) who were converted and they recieve the very same thing that attracted them

shdemidemi:


What were the 120 doing that attracted all the people?

Did they just storm out to the street to pray to God for self edification in other people's language?

vooks:
Can we get serious for a moment?

Spiritual gifts are Spirit of God manifesting Himself in a believer. When a demon-possessed man came to Jesus, the demons inside the man spoke THROUGH his body/mouth. When you are Spirit baptized, the Spirit animates your spirit and your spirit prays through your body/mouth without consulting your brains. So when the Spirit groans, He groans THROUGH your body.

The game is called digression where you inject unnecessary and completely unrelated points to a discussion to stall it.

What was the utility of casting out demons in Mark 16?

This is where you are completely missing the point. If you do not rightly divide the word, how can you understand the things that have been freely given by God through grace.

Was the possessed man a christian?

Please give me just one name of a person within the church under the dispensation of grace that got possessed.

If you can't we can proceed to explaining what it means to be a christian.

vooks:
They were PRAYING in one accord. It is the noise emanating from that upper room that attracted men.

1 Cor 14:23 (KJV)
If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

This is EXACTLY what happened on Pentecost; a group of 120 praying loudly in diverse tongues simultaneously. Outsiders be like, ' they drunk' Others got curious. See, when it comes to the Spirit, there are always these two; the ones who revile what they don't understand, and the others who get curious. You have been busy reviling the Work of Holy Spirit here instead of getting curious. You can bet it is the latter (curious) who were converted and they recieve the very same thing that attracted them

So the multitude from all the nations went into that building that housed the 120 before the empowerment by the Holy Spirit?

You are digressing.
1. There is a CLEAR sign of casting out demons in Mark 16:16-17 alongside speaking in tongues available to BELIEVERS. Are we in agreement on this?
2. Whether the power was to be practiced on believers or non-believers is a non-issue here
3. Dwelling on 2 is wasting time

Once again, Jesus spoke of signs and among them was casting out demons. Is casting out demons relevant for the 2014 believer?

shdemidemi:


This is where you are completely missing the point. If you do not rightly divide the word, how can you understand the things that have been freely given by God through grace.

Was the possessed man a christian?

Please give me just one name of a person within the church under the disensation of grace that got possessed.

If you can't we can proceed to explaining what it means to be a christian.

Sound can travel outside a room housing men. Is this rocket science? It is not attending a meeting that makes the man/outsider think they are mad, it is the HEARING of the diverse tongues coming from the group simultaneously. The noise is what attracted the crowd on Pentecost

Acts 2:4-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.

shdemidemi:



So the multitude from all the nations went into that building that housed the 120 before the empowerment by the Holy Spirit?

vooks:
You are digressing.
1. There is a CLEAR sign of casting out demons in Mark 16:16-17 alongside speaking in tongues available to BELIEVERS. Are we in agreement on this?
2. Whether the power was to be practiced on believers or non-believers is a non-issue here
3. Dwelling on 2 is wasting time

Once again, Jesus spoke of signs and among them was casting out demons. Is casting out demons relevant for the 2014 believer?

1) The man possessed by demons was not a christian. Just one name of s demon possessed christian will suffice.


2) I know signs or tongues are not for me. I am an embodiment of God's glory by the grace of adoption through Christ.

1 cor 14

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

We have not been sent by Christ today to cast out demons but to preach the gospel. Therein lies the power of God that fortifies anyone who believe.

What man are you talking about?

1.Mark 16:16-17 talks of signs that shall follow believers. One of the signs is casting out demons. The other is speaking in tongues.
2. We observe BOTH signs in Acts.
3. You claim we are too mature for signs so we don't need tongues today

Can you also say we no longer need the power to cast out demons since we are mature?

The disciples too were sent to preach to gospel. The signs were supposed to follow them and they did follow them as they preached the gospel. That fickle argument of mutual exclusivity won't hold. It is not either cast out demons or preach the gospel, BOTH were commissioned

shdemidemi:


1) The man possessed by demons was not a christian. Just one name of s demon possessed christian will suffice.


2) I know signs or tongues are not for me. I am an embodiment of God's glory by the grace of adoption through Christ.

1 cor 14

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

We have not been sent by Christ today to cast out demons but to preach the gospel. Therein lies the power of God that fortifies anyone who believe.

brb

vooks:

1.Mark 16:16-17 talks of signs that shall follow believers. One of the signs is casting out demons. The other is speaking in tongues.
2. We observe BOTH signs in Acts.

Jesus sent the disciples out saying these signs (refer to your definition of 'signs') shall follow those who believe.

We saw a manifestation of these signs in the book of Acts, they spoke in tongues, they cast out demons, poisonous snake couldn't mutilate them, they wrought miracles like no man's business.

After a while, we realise that these things were fading off. The privileges the apostles latched on to wake the dead and all became a thing of the past. The same Apostle Paul who raised Eutychus from the dead did not heal Epaphroditus, Trophimus , Timothy , or even himself.



3. You claim we are too mature for signs so we don't need tongues today[/quote]

I did not say, the bible said.

It says tongues are signs for unbelievers and not for the believer. This is in the same chapter you said I am avoiding.

1 cor 14

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.


These gifts were given as signs to unbelievers to authenticate the body of Christ that was to be formed.

If you think this isn't so, you can try go to hospitals to wake he dead. If that is too much, you can as well drink poison to see the outcome. Don't try it, it won't work

vooks:

Can you also say we no longer need the power to cast out demons since we are mature?

The disciples too were sent to preach to gospel. The signs were supposed to follow them and they did follow them as they preached the gospel. That fickle argument of mutual exclusivity won't hold. It is not either cast out demons or preach the gospel, BOTH were commissioned

The disciples were told to do all of those things not you. Guess what Paul said about one of the things that was part of the great commission.

1 cor 1:17a

[size=24pt]17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: [/size]

Same applies to you, we have been called to be ambassadors of God's kingdom to herald the good news of Jesus Christ. When we do that it is within God's power to do whatever He chooses to do.

You do not have any power within yourself to cast out devil from anyone.

vooks:
Sound can travel outside a room housing men. Is this rocket science? It is not attending a meeting that makes the man/outsider think they are mad, it is the HEARING of the diverse tongues coming from the group simultaneously. The noise is what attracted the crowd on Pentecost

Acts 2:4-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language.

Bro, we had better stick with KJV here. It is the only translation that link us back to the original words(manuscript) that were used and in the right context.
Acts 2
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.


The bible says every nation under heaven was represented here. Are you saying they were all listening to Peter and the rest outside the room?

First, that KJV-Only nonsense is repulsive. Who told you KJV is better than RSV? Can you proof this?
My brother read as many versions as possible, learn some Greek and get literal translations as well. This is besides chewing commentaries as many as you can. But before any of these, pray and study on your own.

And drop senseless literalism. If ALL nations under heaven was represented, were there some Australian Jews there?


Acts 2:5-6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven,
6 and the rumour of this having come, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because they were each one hearing them speaking in his proper dialect,

It is not necessary for EVERY Jew to have heard the prayers, word spreads...grapevine. A guy commits suicide by jumping off a building and in no time a crowd gathers. Did they all see the guy jumping? NO.

Remember from verse 41, 3,000 souls came to Christ. This means Peter must have been preaching to more than 3000. Obviously the Upper Room commotion drew onlookers and Peter came out to preach to them in Hebrews or Aramaic since they were all Jews

shdemidemi:


Bro, we had better stick with KJV here. It is the only translation that link us back to the original words(manuscript) that were used and in the right context.
Acts 2
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

[color=#000099]6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
[/color]

The bible says every nation under heaven was represented here. Are you saying they were all listening to Peter and the rest outside the room?

vooks:
First, that KJV-Only nonsense is repulsive. Who told you KJV is better than RSV? Can you proof this?
My brother read as many versions as possible, learn some Greek and get literal translations as well. This is besides chewing commentaries as many as you can. But before any of these, pray and study on your own.

And drop senseless literalism. If ALL nations under heaven was represented, were there some Australian Jews there?


Acts 2:5-6 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven,
6 and the rumour of this having come, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because they were each one hearing them speaking in his proper dialect,

It is not necessary for EVERY Jew to have heard the prayers, word spreads...grapevine. A guy commits suicide byjumping off a building and in no time a crowd gathers. Did they all see the guy jumping? NO.

If you can not make your point sensibly, I might have to stop discussing scriptures with you. Apply some civility please. There is no monopoly to bad behaviour but I will not let this degenerate to that. Talk from the place of scriptural knowledge and stop all the unnecessary insults. Thanks.

vooks:
First, that KJV-Only nonsense is repulsive. Who told you KJV is better than RSV? Can you proof this?

May be if you learn to patiently read, you will comprehend what I am saying. I asked that we should stick with KJV here because all translations came on the back of KJV. It is the only version that link us to the manuscript.

We might not completely get a full picture of what scripture is saying when reading the watered down verses. I have not said don't read it if you want to.

vooks:


It is not necessary for EVERY Jew to have heard the prayers, word spreads...grapevine. A guy commits suicide byjumping off a building and in no time a crowd gathers. Did they all see the guy jumping? NO.

Those are your personal inferences. I will stick with scriptures here.

If you say they were praying in tongues, what exactly could they have been praying for:

could it be more empowerment?

or could it be more self edification, probably the empowerment of the Spirit was not enough, huh?

Did KJV materialize out of thin air?
There were others besides it. Luther, Tyndale and so forth. Why stop at KJV. The only people who INSIST on a particular translation are word masters who know their fickle theories can't stand scrutiny. I will refer to ANY version I deem fit

Again there is no single version that has monopoly of truth. KJV has its fair share of errors and frankly, this is you in your element; digressing. SO it has now moved from Can a Christian be demon possessed to which version to use

KJV-Only-ism is cultish and sectarian just as Adventism. I say it is nonsense because it is not founded on logic but beliefs.


Go back through the last four threads and see how many issues you have raised without hammering them down. Did I not prophesy that with this galloping you will be here in 2024?

may be it hurts you endlessly that am completely impervious to illogic. I demand proof, i have the same spirit of Bereans, I stand by IT IS WRITTEN. I can't possibly apologize for loving Truth. Sir no Sir!

shdemidemi:


If you can not make your point sensibly, I might have to stop discussing scriptures with you. Apply some civility please. There is no monopoly to bad behaviour but I will not let this degenerate to that. Talk from the place of scriptural knowledge and stop all the unnecessary insults. Thanks.



May be if you learn to patiently read, you will comprehend what I am saying. I asked that we should stick with KJV here because all translations came on the back of KJV. It is the only version that link us to the manuscript.

We might not completely get a full picture of what scripture is saying when reading the watered down verses. I have not said don't read it if you want to.