By Islamic law you are not allowed to kill another person if you are not at declared war involvement, for self defence that is? If I may ask you? Have you read somewhere where the Islamic law approves the killing of another person within its jurisprudence as legal?

So the precise answer would be yes, you would be charged with murder, if you kill someone where Islamic law is practiced. I encourage that you take it upon you to read before you form opinion on anything. Islamic Law plus the application of fatwa, just the same way you read the old testament and embrace new modified laws based on context, that should help.

phew,I had to beat that out of you.

So by extrapolation any Sharia government TODAY that sanctions killing of an apostate is not doing the right thing since it is wrong to kill someone who decdes to go to the Church on Sunday even if he had been at the mosque the previous Friday.

The will of Allah? Allah Enjoins us to be sincere and apply shariah based on circumstances, wisdom, sincerity and context. Anything not applied in relation is not his will, hence I suppose that applies.

Logical:

So the precise answer would be yes, you would be charged with murder, if you kill someone where Islamic law is practiced. I encourage that you take it upon you to read before you form opinion on anything. Islamic Law plus the application of fatwa, just the same way you read the old testament and embrace new modified laws based on context, that should help.

We are learning from each other aren't we,no other Muslim here has been bold enough to say this but you.
If the laws have changed just as the coming of Christ made the old testament laws not applicable to Christians such as animal sacrifices and all,there is nothing wrong with good well meaning Muslims coming out openly and declaring that so that when we read certain commands in the Koran to kill infidels and apostates we know it was meant for that time in history  and not fear that you guys are asking for our heads and that anyone that kills us for that singular reason is a criminal in the eyes of Islam.

Logical:

The will of Allah? Allah Enjoins us to be sincere and apply shariah based on circumstances, wisdom, sincerity and context. Anything not applied in relation is not his will, hence I suppose that applies.

Now you make me nervous,are you saying there could be circumstances where the apostate should be killed?

logical and babyosis

good work, have not had time to read all that was posted today but from my brief scan through, i like your arguments.

well nilla thanks.

shariah is not a law invocked by people but Authourities? Or maybe you didnt know that? Or let me guess you don't have a knowledge of the Shariah? Ah that I understand . Read for yourself, don't agree because what you hear they report, what does the law actually dictates is important.

A good example is the law of cutting hands when you steal. It is only applicable according to the shariah in the enviroment that there is 0% poverty, a place where everybody has shelter and food to eat. So tell me that ideal community is available today.

A refrence was during the prophets time when he halted the law due to ferminine.

I don't claim to be a Sharia expert but are there times when an apostate should be killedc by sharia say if he ends up converting others?

logical!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you haven't disappeared on me have you?
Hurry!!!!!!! I have a nail appointment to keep lol

What do you want me to say? I taught I answered that question before?

We'll continue next time,I realise it was not easy for you to be forthcoming like this but you made it and I am glad.

Perhaps many need to learn from you and teach us what Islam teaches today so that we can all know that when terrorists blow people and themselves up in the name of Allah,they are nothing but misguided Muslims and so should be denounced by good Muslims and that those Muslims who celebrated the Sept 11 bombings are not true Muslims who perhaps have not been taught that true Muslims do not kill infidels and apostates in this day and age.

If I heard this from any of you all along,we would not have had any problems at all knowing that my enemies are yours too.
The misguided Muslims who celebrated Sept 11 may not know that about 300 Muslims perished in that wreckage.
Bombs have no way of discriminating Muslims from non Muslims.

I hope we are friends now as we continue to learn,anything you needed to ask about Christianity please do so if I don't know the answers,davidylan,malik,pearl2 or the others may know and give you the right answer.

Enough of all the killings and beheadings by Al zaquawi followers in the name of Islam or whatever since we know Islam TODAY does not sanction that.
I bet many did not know that too.

no you didn't,the question was

babyosisi:

I don't claim to be a Sharia expert but are there times when an apostate should be killedc by sharia say if he ends up converting others?

I'll read your answer when I return, peace.

finally!!! i'm so glad we finally got a meaningful discourse on this thread, rather than the mud-slinging that has been the norm.

@logical, thank you for answering questions directly (YES or NO, with explanations) as put to you, rather than returning with examples of why xtianity is no better than islam, as some have been doing. by doing so, u succeeded in changing the tone and bringing us back on track.

@ babyosisi, now UR own tone is much improved, u seem to be more interested in learning rather than inflaming others' sensibilities. this is not the way to win men unto Him, please be more careful at other times.

@ trix

thanx for telling Babyosisi what he needed to hear.

oh thank goodness someone has time to teach babyosisi some good stuff instead of running to the propagandist and google and CNN

hope u got ur nails done

@ trix

thanx for telling Babyosisi what he needed to hear.

lol

twinkledew:

@ trix

thanx for telling Babyosisi what he needed to hear.

I will ignore this twerp one more time hoping it flies away.

LoverBwoy:

oh thank goodness someone has time to teach babyosisi some good stuff instead of running to the propagandist and google and CNN

hope u got your nails done

loverbwouy,by the way I like your nic and yes I got my nails pretty as ever,thanks for asking.

My last question was,are there situations were Sharia could sanction the killing of an apostate and give an example of that situation.
Any Muslim can jump in.
Waiting for an answer.

trix:

finally!!! i'm so glad we finally got a meaningful discourse on this thread, rather than the mud-slinging that has been the norm.

@logical, thank you for answering questions directly (YES or NO, with explanations) as put to you, rather than returning with examples of why xtianity is no better than islam, as some have been doing. by doing so, u succeeded in changing the tone and bringing us back on track.

@ babyosisi, now UR own tone is much improved, u seem to be more interested in learning rather than inflaming others' sensibilities. this is not the way to win men unto Him, please be more careful at other times.

Logical, I've kept quiet all this while because the thread started taking the appearance of a contest between Islam and Christianity when the topic was Muslims: Are We Bad?

I am glad a muslim, and Logical, I'm assuming you're one, did all of us a favour by answering certain questions; afterall, it was a muslim that asked the question that started this thread, so it's only reasonable that a muslim should be in the best position to answer questions that non-muslims have about certain issues in Islam.

I join 'hands' with trix to express my respect for the way you've answered certain YES or NO questions with a Yes, and/or a No. I also respect Babyosisi for acknowledging your approach. This is what makes a forum; we agree to disagree, you give, take and like Jesus says in His Word:

As much as it lies with you, be at peace with all men.

asalam aleikum

Did you people hear that the kidnapped fox news reporters were forced to convert to Islam at GUNPOINT is that not funny?

It's soooo not funny, I'm sure if it were such a wonderful religion, there would be no need to threaten people to convert.

Recent PEW Research Center for the People and the Press did a "large-scale attitudinal survey in the spring."

Title: The Great Divide: How Westerners and Muslims View Each Other.

Two batches of countries: 6 w/ long histories of majority Muslims (Egypt, Indonesia,Jordan, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Turkey);

4 in West Europe with new, minority Muslim pops (France, Germany, Britain, Spain)
3 Categories:

1) A proclivity to conspiracy theories (NONE believe Arabs did 9-11)!
2) Support for terrorism: (SOLID majority support osama binladen in ALL Muslim pops).
3) British and Nigerian Muslims are MOST alienated.

On the analysis on the differences between American Muslims and British Muslims, see http://scarlettearsoflondon..com.

I want informed commentary and not just people posting comments for posting sake.

The genesis of the crisis that we are all witnessing now began nearly 100 years ago before World Wars 1 & 2. The Western powers attacked Iraq and other Islamic countries in North Africa and the Middle East and left. But the Muslims have never forgotten these wars and have been waiting for their time to retaliate.

You can find more facts on my Their GOD: Drugs, Oil and Gold in the archives of the Nigerian Times blog. And I am not boasting that I have more facts on the history of the war in Iraq even before World War 2. So, the whole crisis did not start with 9/11.

Mind you that I have contibuted to this discussion without my personal bias. Because, I want us to address the details of the facts and not our petty sectarian sentiments.

@4MALIK
I want you to know that many muslims around the world are not happy about killing a fellow human being in the name of ISLAM but the only way someone like me can protest such ACT is to condemn and reject IT. I wish i can make them realise how bad these killings are.

TO naira landers
     I aslo want people to know that ISLAM is a way of life and everyone should be responsible for the way he/she chooses to live it, so stop blaming the UNBORN MUSLIMS for what BIN LADEN and his follwers are doing today. I have to
state cartegorically that no matter what anyone thinks, ISLAM will remain till ETERNITY and if GOD had not wanted it to be practised then may be the whole world would have been stone worshipers or whatever.I also think that we should question what people do and not thier excuses about what they do, president BUSH never attack the quran but he has concentated on how to cripple the terrorist.
       I also have concerns about the way some muslims behave but i hope they realise that no matter what ideology you beleive in, everyone cannot beleive in what you are following because I think GOD has made us in such a way that we can choose whatever we want to follow or do in life.
        on a final note,muslims are not bad but people are bad and please stop painting bad pictures about muslims because many muslims are out there doing wondrful things that will help the human race, can you please talk about that
and not  ARE MUSLIMS BAD ?
   LET ME REMIND EVERYONE THAT IF YOU ARE NOT A MUSLIM/CHRISTIAN, IT DOES NOT IMPLY THAT YOUR COMING GENERATIONS MAY NOT BE MUSLIMS/CHRISTIANS, GOD IS THE MOST HIGH

@orikinla,is your question centered on the fact that majority of Muslims in the poll love Osama the idiot and deny the Sept 11 was perpetrated by Arabs?
Can you make the question clearer.

The other thing,whenever questions are asked of our Muslim friends or news items such as the reporters forced at gun point to embrace Allah(which is laughable),it is a great opportunity for you guys to declare your disgust or approval to actions like that so that we know how the average Muslim takes these events because if you don't,we (non Muslims)  are subject to our own  interpretations based on what we know.

Now the next method of getting converts is to kidnap them and force them to convet to Islam at gun point.

dayokanu:

Now the next method of getting converts is to kidnap them and force them to convet to Islam at gun point.

@dayokanu,I am trying very hard to believe(against my better judgement) that those are misguided Muslims.
Forceful  Islamic conversions are nothing new even though we know these smart reporters would french kiss a carmel if need be to return home in one piece.
Where are the Muslims on this thread they all seem to have dissappeared now that some of us are willing to disregard the literal Koran commands and give them a chance to tell us  how peaceful Islam can be.

m4malik,

I can see you have some rudiments of the knowledge of Islamic texts (Qur'an and Hadith), but you lack the knowledge of the context. It's easy to make quatations out of context as you have done but it's takes much more than that to understand the import of those quotations. As some one said there are many texts in the bible that invoke killing in even more horrid manner than you have seen in the Qur'an.

'am just a visitor here and wish have time and energy to add a few clarifications for those with open heart to understand. But just as an illustration of the hadith whoever change his religion kill him'. The context here is, in an Islamic state a Muslim denouncing Islam does not only commit apostasy but also treason. An treason even in secular laws is punishable by death (though not in all states, I admit). It must also be made clear that the killing can only be done according to the rules by a competent judge or ruler and not by mob. We can not judge Islam by the malpractice of some Muslims.

But isn't it intriguing, this stereotyping? Islam is judged by the (mal)practice of Muslims but neither is Christianity or Judaism. You don't hear of Christian terrorism in e.g the ETA movement in Spain or in the IRA of Ireland or Judaic terrorism as we see in west bank and Gaza. Our solace as Muslims is the assurance of Allah in the Qur'an that our adversaries ', desire that they extinguish the light of Islam but Allah will keep it shining to the discontent of the unbelievers, '

Naziru:

m4malik,

I can see you have some rudiments of the knowledge of Islamic texts (Qur'an and Hadith), but you lack the knowledge of the context. It's easy to make quatations out of context as you have done but it's takes much more than that to understand the import of those quotations. As some one said there are many texts in the bible that invoke killing in even more horrid manner than you have seen in the Qur'an.

'am just a visitor here and wish have time and energy to add a few clarifications for those with open heart to understand. But just as an illustration of the hadith whoever change his religion kill him'. The context here is, in an Islamic state a Muslim denouncing Islam does not only commit apostasy but also treason. An treason even in secular laws is punishable by death (though not in all states, I admit). It must also be made clear that the killing can only be done according to the rules by a competent judge or ruler and not by mob. We can not judge Islam by the malpractice of some Muslim.

But isn't it intriguing, this stereotyping? Islam is judged by the (mal)practice of Muslims but neither is Christianity or Judaism. You don't hear of Christian terrorism in e.g the ETA movement in Spain or in the IRA of Ireland or Judaic terrorism as we see in west bank and Gaza. Our solace as Muslims is the assurance of Allah in the Qur'an that our adversaries ', desire that they extinguish the light of Islam but Allah will keep it shining to the discontent of the unbelievers, '

The only point you made here is that apostacy is punishable by death in Sharia because it is treason.
You people should make up your minds.
You say one thing and logical says another,which one is it?
Is the peaceful religion now confused?
You see why we (non muslims) have a problem with you people.

By the way the IRA terrorists have a defined goal,know their targets and are not a world threat.
I bet only very few ever heard of ETA movement,who are they,are they killing Muslims?
If the only killings we heard of were between shites and sunnis,the world would not give a red cent,believe me.