U guys always Overwhelm me,

NOt necesarily because i've not a good response 4 ur posts but probably because i know where this is all going and im kinda tired. MOst of the time, we get no Where.@ d end of the day we hold to our own belief.

@Nella, it seems to me u are the one exhibiting a terrorist characteTalk about burning d Quran et al .After all i didn't yab anyone, I tried to make a point and draw pp's attention to Information sources about ISlam i consider clear and Just.

@Syrup, I guess we've met @Bounties of Jannat. Simply put, i admire ur use of English.Seems Fantastic.Seriously .

Nonetheless, u r picking on islam without due consideration of the social,political,cultural, context!!!. 4 God sake, if slay was used in Quran, was it not proscribed for war? @ least ISlam touches all aspects of our lives, from d goods ones to d undesirable ones(war etc).

As for the intellectuals u claim are beginning to confess, oh my God 4 d love of God , my answer would be, some people's position needn't necesarily be the true position of Islam.

I really do not wish to drag this any further, i believe my previous post has done justice to the issue.

Cheers and Many Thanks

@ abdkadir

did you take a good look at the picture on this page? It was not a picture from the 12th century but one from the 21st century! Unfortunately the message remains the same more than 9 centuries after:
slay, murder, butcher, kill!

and they are doing it in the name of allah.
It's amazing how difficult it is for these chaps to condemn violence and provocative languages like this.
Even the so called peaceful ones cannot condemn evil because they are doing it in the name of jihad.

[center]Na u Sabi.[/center]
[center]And who says i support violence [/center]
[center]Violence is definately not da best option. If possible it shouldn't even happen.[/center]

@davidlyn
I guess u didnt get it, my reference to "1000" years back was with respect to the Muhammed ,Aisha case and not the picture. Abeg, read my post well.

dont worry abdkadir, your point was well taken.

The mohammed and aisha case is still with us today, it hasnt gone anywhere. Just visit Sokoto or Zamfara for good examples. . .

[center]Na u Sabi, u guys never no go gri [/center]
[center]I rest my Case[/center]

abdkabir:

[center]Na u Sabi, u guys never no go gri [/center]
[center]I rest my Case[/center]

@abdkabir, eventhou u r a Muslim, i can c that u don't support the violence part ur seem a cool G,
but hey don't blame us 4 saying Muslims r bad! it's just d image ur fellow muslims postray 2 us, that's wat we r judging 4rom!!
but u cool,

@abdkabir,

abdkabir:

@Syrup, I guess we've met @Bounties of Jannat. Simply put, i admire your use of English.Seems Fantastic.Seriously .

Nonetheless, you're picking on islam without due consideration of the social,political,cultural, context!!!. 4 God sake, if slay was used in Quran, was it not proscribed for war? @ least ISlam touches all aspects of our lives, from d goods ones to d undesirable ones(war etc).

First, I admire your calm regardless of being at the receiving end. I understand how it feels to be in such a position; but then your resolve is applaudable.

Second, when I discuss issues with Muslims, it's often my position to have considered a whole range of issues before posting my persuasions. If SLAY was used in the Qur'an, I wonder who is at war with Muslims before they go on rampage at every excuse, especially when they are convinced that the Qur'an stipulates their actions?

Understandably, most Muslims (particularly in the West) are not as belligerent as we see in other Islam-dominated countries. One could only infer that they do not necessarily agree with Muhammad's injunction to pursue war in the name of promoting Islam.

All the same, the concerns and questions surrounding the violent nature of Islam as a worldview are growing by the day.

abdkabir:

As for the intellectuals u claim are beginning to confess, oh my God 4 d love of God , my answer would be, some people's position needn't necesarily be the true position of Islam.

That's true. But I'll rather save us the headache of reviewing what is "the true position of Islam".

Once again, it seems we settle for "peace".Fair enough . Nice having this chat and hoping to meet with u on some other Thread.

Would be happy we are on the same Side when that opportunity comes though.

Cheers to the Duo.

In the whole world, if Muslims are bad who is good? You can believe that the good character you have ever came to meet, naturally comes out from Muslims. Nothing bad is from muslim when you take a look at the world's history.
In conclusion, the best peoples on the earth are MUSLIMS.

Never talk something like this.

It's YouTee.[/color][color=#006600][/color][color=#006600]

[color=#006600][/color]

[color=#006600][/color]

YouTee:

In the whole world, if Muslims are bad who is good? You can believe that the good character you have ever came to meet, naturally comes out from Muslims. Nothing bad is from muslim when you take a look at the world's history.
In conclusion, the best peoples on the earth are MUSLIMS.

Never talk something like this.

It's YouTee.[/color][color=#006600][/color][color=#006600]

Are you delusional, or is it that you don't know history?
Please check history well and you will see that no one found trouble with muslims, they found trouble with the world. No one paid attention to muslims ans that pissed muhammad off, and then the whole "choose Islam or die" came about, and for 500 years of slaying and displacing christians and others from their homes no one fought back, it wasn't until muslims decided to touch the Holy Sepulchre (Christ's tomb) that Christians said enough is enough.
We didn't start the trouble, muslims did, and ever since then, muslims have sworn to make everyone miserable.

Israel didn't look for trouble with the muslims, muslims looked for trouble with Israel, you guys think they're apes and swine and all.

Go back and check history well please, and you will notice a trend with Islam. All these didn't start today, they started when Islam was started by muhammad. And ever sisnce then the world has had to protect itself from Islam.

I know there are mulsims that don't practice what the Quran calls for, thank God for that, but it would be nice if you guys actually reasoned a bit, and do some research to find out history. If you want to continue being a muslim, fine, but please acknowledge the facts about Islam and its history.

Well said.  The link below reveals some of the historical background as to the reasons why they behave the way they do.

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/crusades_all_about.htm

@Lady
[b]

Are you delusional, or is it that you don't know history?

That should go to you. You claimed to know history but your post exposed you.

Please check history well and you will see that no one found trouble with muslims, they found trouble with the world.

Ignorance is really a disease. Your posts show that you lacked religious knowledge, even you know little about your so called religion hence the lies in your post. Which history book did you read and when you provide one, I will provide you with when Jews, christians and Muslims lived together during the time of the holy prophet and non Muslims were safeguarded and never allowed to be hurt nor cheated. More is there but would hold on till you are able to support your accusation with truth else your lies would not be accepted with a pinch of salt.

No one paid attention to muslims ans that pissed muhammad off,

Can I have the answer you claimed above?

and then the whole "choose Islam or die" came about,

Can I have where it came about either from my prophet, Quran or Sunnah?

and for 500 years of slaying and displacing christians and others from their homes no one fought back, it wasn't until muslims decided to touch the Holy Sepulchre (Christ's tomb) that Christians said enough is enough.

Lady, honestly, your dishonesty knows no bounds. How could you be saying when you claimed to have known history. Well, I will give you part of the gist below.

We didn't start the trouble, muslims did, and ever since then, muslims have sworn to make everyone miserable.

Israel didn't look for trouble with the muslims, muslims looked for trouble with Israel, you guys think they're apes and swine and all.

Are we discussing christianity or Jew? Let me know if you want you and I to discuss Jew and would serve you the atocities committed by them even in the scriptures.

Go back and check history well please, and you will notice a trend with Islam. All these didn't start today, they started when Islam was started by muhammad. And ever sisnce then the world has had to protect itself from Islam.

I know there are mulsims that don't practice what the Quran calls for, thank God for that, but it would be nice if you guys actually reasoned a bit, and do some research to find out history. If you want to continue being a muslim, fine, but please acknowledge the facts about Islam and its history.

Read the story of Salaudeen Ayubi and would see that christian crusaders started general killings of muslims and jews when they captured while Ayubi forgave them all when he recaptured same.

Lady, please read and you would see that your false claim to have known history holds no water.

The facts show that Islam tolerates non - Muslim minorities within the Muslim Nation and treats them as independent nations free to worship and live according to their own religious laws. This was outlined in the Covenant of Medina which became the world's first written constitution in 622 AD.

Part of the Covenant of Medina

Muhammad invited the Jews to join the new society as an independent nation, governed by rabbinical court, within the Muslim Nation. The Jews accepted and an agreement known as The Covenant of Medina was signed in 622 AD.

The covenant guaranteed all the parties equality and freedom of religion; emphasized the sanctity of Medina, life, and individual possessions; and prohibited crime.

The Covenant of Medina was a giant leap for mankind and established the basis for treating non-Muslim minorities within the Muslim Nation which ruled the civilized world for more than 8 centuries.

Muslims in Europe:

When the Muslims ruled European countries including Spain, Portugal, southern France, southern Italy, and Sicily; Christians and Jews thrived and were allowed in Muslim Universities. This gave Europeans the scientific and artistic tools which helped them start the Renaissance several centuries later when the hold of the Catholic Church over Europe was weakened.

Muslim taxes were a fraction of the Roman taxes. Muslims considered their sphere of influence as one nation. They did not transfer wealth from the countries they occupied to Arabia or practice genocide against the native population.

When the tables were turned and the Catholic Spaniards defeated the Muslims in Spain and Portugal, they instituted the Spanish Inquisition which killed or expelled millions of Muslims who refused to convert to Christianity. [/b]The Jews suffered a similar fate at the hands of the Spaniards.
[b]
While millions of Christians and Jews continue to thrive in the Muslim countries after 14 centuries of Muslim domination, there is no trace of the millions of Muslims who lived for centuries in Spain and Portugal. Evidence of their past existence can only be found in beautiful palaces like Alhambra in Granada, flamenco music and dancing, Portuguese fado singing, and the abundance of Arabic words in the Spanish and Portuguese languages.

The Crusades:

The "real" holy wars were waged by the Crusaders against the Muslims in the Middle East. The Crusaders were brutal in their treatment of Muslim prisoners of war and civilians. When the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem, they killed 70,000 Muslims. When the Muslims re-conquered the city they did not kill anybody.

Orthodox Christians were considered heretics and therefore did not escape the Crusaders' brutality. The Orthodox Churches, which were safe during centuries of Muslim rule, were looted by the Crusaders. The Holy Grail was not the only thing the Crusaders took from the Orthodox churches.

When Muslims ended the Crusades by re-conquering Acre from the Crusaders, Pope Nicolas IV barred Christians from selling timber to Muslims. This embargo did not result in persecution of the Christians in the Muslim countries.

Napoleonic Crusade:

The Crusades were not an unfortunate episode during the dark age in Europe that ended a long time ago. When Napoleon invaded Egypt, he ordered his troops to destroy the face of the sphinx and the tip of the great pyramid to leave his mark on them.

His cavalry desecrated al-Azhar mosque, the Muslim World's equivalent of the Vatican and the first university in the world, with their horses. The French soldiers burned the rare manuscripts in its library to keep warm.

[list]
[li]Napoleon was proud that he had ordered beheading 5-6 people daily and parading their heads in the streets to scare the population! [/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

After defeating the Turks in Jaffa, Napoleon ordered his troops to kill about 2500 Turkish soldiers from the city garrison who surrendered. The soldiers were led to the shore and the French kept firing at them until they ran out of ammunition then finished them off with bayonets. The water turned red from the blood of the slain Turks. In the city, the killing, raping, looting and burning lasted for 2 days and did not stop until the French troops were too exhausted to continue.

When a survivor of the Jaffa massacre killed a French general, his hands were cut, his wrists were burned then he was impaled. After his slow death, his head was severed and was given to a French surgeon who showed the skull to his students in Paris as an example of a terrorist and a criminal.

It seems that the principles of the French revolution: Freedom, equality and brotherhood did not apply to Muslims! This was later confirmed when the French occupied Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia and declared them French territories. The French citizenship was given to Jews and Christians but not to Muslims!

Modern Crusades:

When general Allenby, the commander of the British forces in the Middle East during World War I, entered Jerusalem and Damascus he proclaimed the end of the Crusades.

Nazi Crusade:

Abdel Wahab El-Messeri (Al-Ahram Weekly, 23 - 29 December 1999, Issue No. 461) reported:

"In the course of my research for the Encyclopedia of Jews, Judaism and Zionism, I was surprised to find how frequently the word "Muselmann" (Muslim) appeared in the Auschwitz concentration camp lists. According to one source, the victims who were led off to the gas chambers were called "aliens" ((??)) and according to other sources, "Muselmanner". In the Encyclopedia Judaica, I came across the following entry:

"Muselmann (Muslim in German) was a commonly used terms in the concentration camps, used to refer to the prisoners who were on the brink of death, that is to say those who began to show the final symptoms of starvation, disease, mental apathy and physical weakness. The term was primarily used in Auschwitz, but was also used in other camps."

We see here an epitome of one central dimension of the Western mentality. Whenever it destroys its victims it perceives them as "other," and the other, since the time of the Crusades, has always been the Muslim. In the Middle Ages, moreover, Muslims and Jews were closely linked in the Western mind. One can find, for instance, many paintings which portray the Prophet Muhammad (born 570 AD) flogging Christ.

The Nazi experience is an authentic product of this Western mindset. The Nazis were the standard bearers of this vision. They epitomised the Western confrontation with the oriental civilisation closest to Europe: the Islamic civilisation. They never forgot this burden, even when annihilating millions of inhabitants of Europe. The connotation of the term "Muselmann" was simply extended to include the "other" in general, whether Slavs, Jews or Gypsies (as has occurred in a similar manner with the word "Arab" in Zionist discourse). The writer of the preceding entry in the Encyclopedia Judaica attempted to explain how this term came into currency in the camps. The Nazis' victims, he said, would crouch cross-legged in the "oriental" manner and the expression on their faces would be wooden, as lifeless as a mask. One notes that the writer, in his definition, made no attempt to avoid the customary Western stereotype of Muslims. He simply substituted the word "oriental" for "Muselmann"."

Terrorist and fundamentalist have frequently replaced the word "oriental".

Muslims revere Moses, Jesus and all the prophets and consider Judaism and Christianity earlier phases of the primordial religion of God: Islam. The Muslims in Bulgaria, for example, were very active in protecting Jewish groups from persecution, and King Hussein V of Morocco refused to hand over his Jewish subjects to the Vichy government in France.

Unfortunately, Jews and Christians do not recognize Islam or the Prophet Muhammad's mission. Most Christians and Jews consider Muslims sinners who are not chosen by God or saved and are, therefore, not entitled to equal or humane treatment.

Jewish Crusade:

The United Nations records document countless atrocities against Muslim civilians by the Jews in Palestine. Infamous examples are the massacres in Kafr Qasim, Dir Yasin by the Jewish terrorist gangs before the UN divided Palestine into a Palestinian and Jewish states.

An Israeli historian uncovered credible evidence that troops massacred 200 Palestinians in a single village on the day Israel came into being in 1948.

Teddy Katz, who researched events in the village of Tantura for a masters degree, said he had spoken to witnesses including soldiers who were present to support his findings.

``It started at night and was over in a few hours,'' Katz said 14 Israeli soldiers were killed in the ambush on the village. Tantura, near Haifa in northern Israel, had 1,500 residents at the time. It was later demolished to make way for a parking lot for a nearby beach and the Nahsholim kibbutz, or cooperative farm.

Katz said the killing spree in Tantura was more tragic and bigger than in the village of Deir Yassin just west of Jerusalem, where scores of Palestinians were killed on April 9, 1948, in an assault by Jewish armed groups.

Reports just after the Deir Yassin killings spoke of some 240 deaths. Up to 700,000 Palestinians fled from their towns and villages or were driven out by Jewish troops in the conflict between Arab and Jew that surrounded Israel's creation.

Fawzi Tanji, now 73 and a refugee at a camp in the West Bank, is from Tantura and worked until May 1948 as a guard for the army in British Mandate Palestine.

He told Reuters he had watched as Israeli troops took over the village, lined men up against a cemetery wall and shot them. Katz said 95 men were killed at the cemetery.

``I was 21 years old then. They took a group of 10 men, lined them up against the cemetery wall and killed them. Then they brought another group, killed them, threw away the bodies and so on,'' Tanji said.

The Israeli newspaper Maariv, which reported Katz's findings Wednesday, quoted the commander of the Tantura attack as saying his troops had no grounds to ask questions or spare lives.

``It was war, When you see the enemy opposite you, he doesn't have a note saying he doesn't mean to shoot you. When you see him, you shoot him,'' retired colonel Bentz Pridan said. (New York Times, January 19, 2000)

Other infamous massacres include the massacres in Palestinian refugee camps in Sabra and Shatila, and the recent massacre in Qana (where Jesus once attended a wedding and changed water into wine!) More than 200 women, children and old men who were seeking shelter near a UN camp were killed by deliberate Israeli bombing.

Israel occupied southern Lebanon for 20 years. In 1978, UN Security Council Resolution 425 called " upon Israel immediately to cease its military action against Lebanese territorial integrity and withdraw forthwith its forces from all Lebanese territory.

Instead of complying with the UN Security Council Resolution, Israel invaded additional Lebanese territory in 1982, 1993, and 1996 killing tens of thousands and displaced hundreds of thousands of Lebanese civilians.

Israel has been holding scores of innocent Lebanese hostages, some for more than a decade, in prisons in Israel and Israeli-occupied south Leba[b]non. Recent news reports also suggest that Israel has been systematically stealing fertile topsoil from Israeli-occupied southern Lebanon and trucking it to Israel.[/b]

The value of property, seized by Israel from 700,000 Palestinians who fled Palestine when the Jewish terrorists announced the formation of Israel in 1948, is estimated at more than 6 billion dollars excluding interest.

Violation of the civil, religious and human rights of the Muslim and Christian minorities in Israel, which are 18% of the population, had no effect on the flow of unlimited aid to Israel. Israel has destroyed about 400 mosques and 400 churches since the UN divided Palestine into Palestinian and Jewish States in 1948.

It seems that the US policy of linking foreign aid to human rights and religious persecution records of foreign countries does not apply to Israel.

Serbian Crusade:

The Serb Christians waged war on the Muslim civilians in Bosnia and Kosovo. In Bosnia, more than 200,000 Muslims have been killed and more than 1400 mosques have been destroyed or damaged. About 200 villages have been destroyed in Kosovo and about 250,000 refugees have fled for their lives.

When the Serb Christians invaded Kosovo, they destroyed all mosques despite the fact that the Christian monasteries were safe for centuries in the predominantly Muslim Kosovo.

When the Afghani Mujahideen ( those who conduct Jihad ), aided by fighters from Saudi Arabia trained and armed by the US, fought the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, they were hailed as freedom fighters. Jihad was good in those days. The US was calling for a worldwide Islamic Jihad against the Soviets.

When the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, the Mujahideen were quickly denounced as terrorists because of their opposition to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian, Syrian, and Lebanese territories.

Some Christian fundamentalists even turned to violence when they could not impose their views legally and killed law enforcement officers in Waco and bombed abortion clinics in several cities. The government and the media never refer to the threat of Christian fundamentalists.

Jewish fundamentalists murdered Rabin, their own prime minister, when he finally saw the light. Rabin realized that Israel has to make peace with the Palestinians and the rest of the Arab World to secure its long term prospects in the region.

Jewish fundamentalists oppose peace and conduct demonstrations with banners calling for killing the Arabs. Many of these fundamentalists have killed Palestinian civilians and desecrated the Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and were either never arrested or quickly released from police custody because there were judged mentally unstable.

These activities are never reported by the media in the US the way they cover suicide bombings by desperate militants who have lost everything to illegal destruction of their homes and killing of their family members by the Israeli government or by Jewish settlers who are illegally taking over Palestinian territories and barring Palestinians from access to their farms and places of worship to pressure them into submission to the illegal status quo[/b].

The West ignores the threat of Christian and Jewish fundamentalists while actively opposing Muslim fundamentalists, even when they are democratically elected.

The military takeovers of the elected governments in Algeria, Sierra Leone, Tajikistan and Turkey were encouraged by the West. However, the military takeover of the elected government in Haiti was not tolerated. The UN authorized a US invasion to return the elected government to power.

Lady, let me see you deny these facts as you claimed to know history very well

O MY, i actually took my time to read all these, interesting. i dont think it is fair to say muslims are bad, their religion is the root of this and is nt their fault (i think), excluding the few muslims dat are 'good' ofcos. i have muslim friends and they are REALLY good, this i guess is becos they're nt really into the islam thing and one of them is basically confused.

i've seen ppl here use readings from old testament to make accusations, do they knw dat this is the main reason why God sent down HIS son to show us the proper way to do things, his death didnt occur becos God couldnt save him, it was a form of 'cleansing' of the past things done.
ppl has called Jesus names and alll, dat actually did hurt but at the same time i knw God will fight his own battles sha anyday anytime,
i knw a man that was mad for years becos he tod his muslim father he was goin to ditch islam for another religion, the father told him 'over my dead body, if u do u'll surely run mad''. yep, it happened, ppl told his father dat the guy has gone mad and this alhaji did absolutely nothing, even as a father. well after 3yrs or so, the guy was helped, by some christian group, tell me why the hell wil this guy go back to this religion?

i dont have anything against muslims but i'll rather choose another religion if i have to. the fact remains dat i feel REALLY uncomfortable in their midst, i guess its all the media effect,

People who practice islam as 'peace' should try to englighten other followers against their extreme believes and all.

it will be nice to stop callin each other names as well, Jesus is respected by his followers, the same goes for Mohammed and they both mean sumthing big to some people.

maybe muslims are good with the exception of the fanatics, just maybe

I understand your concerns, but when moderate contemporary Muslims blame the atrocities of their fellow Muslims on excuses like "the work of devilishminded people. . .and . . . gualibility of the alimajiris," I'm forced to shake my head in disagreement because these same people get their inspiration both from the Qur'an and the example of Muhammad in the hadith.

Let's take a singular example - the killing of a Muslim convert to other religions, this is what the Qur'an says:

Q.4:89 - "They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

You are taking bits from the Qur'an and putting them in to context in which you want to believe which is what the the suicide bombers are taught it is easy to do it but islam does not teach to hate or judge people for what they do or believe. As a Muslim we do not condone violence and in my eyes anyone who does will not enter the gates of heaven and anyone who judges will not enter the gates of heaven you are misled as is 94% of americans and as a muslim i cannot be upset because you are uneducated about the concept. It is sad that many people are misinformed about muslims as a whole and only a small percent believe in bringing terror upon the innocence and when america does the same it is put into as casualties of war when americans bomb innocent women and children when they had nothing to do with bombings. Which is why alot of people dislike the views of americans. If you think your better than any human beings no matter what race,gender,or religion you are lower than that person or group.

Nella

it is sad that you think this of Islam and if you are christian then you think most of every thing in the bible are bad because most the teaching in the bible are in the Qur'an hate is evil and if you hate then you are more evil then the terrorist. As a muslim i nor any muslim can condone violence and as for the ones that do bombings they are misled as you are and they do not enter the gates of heaven. But i do not hate you for that because thats what you been taught as they where to so its on both sides its pretty sad that you think the way you do and the only one that can save you is your self not anyone else nor apparently your beliefs. I will pray for you as a muslim and i pray for your family or friends that think the way you do.


Allah the great and all mighty

NO, Muslims are not bad.

@abdkabir,

Respect, i am really flabagasted by your posts, you seems cool headed to be a muslim, you treated the post with all sense of humour and backed out with dignity, i am impressed, but man, you really need to take alook at the islam world, what evil is being done to the world, take a good look at the Sept. 11. 2001, nigerians were amongst those that died, it is obidience to the words of allah and muhammad, where do they get their inspiration from: the same quran you read which taught you to be cool headed taught then to be aggressive just like babs and others. well, keep it up, you will surely see the way out of the dark tunnel. ok.

NO, Muslims are not bad.

Only if you justify
1 Q.4:89 - "They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

2 And from the Hadith:Hadith Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57

Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Then will i agree with you. cos it is one thing to know a man's character and another to know what his religion taught him, and as far as muslims claim, ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE, now tell me WHAT IS THE PEACE IN THAT HORRIBLE VERSE AND DEATH WARRANT ISSUED BY THE COMMANDER IN CHEIF OF ISLAMIC FORCES IN THE HADITH. EXPLAIN.

@Todak

Only if you justify
1 Q.4:89 - "They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

The above happened during the war time and I posted enough fact when I replied Lady. It happened when hypocrite brokered the peace treaty and would post it for you again to read without being biased. Olodo


88. Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

90. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

I dont understand the above hadith please. Which hadith is the above please?
Who collected the hadith please?

When you are through, read again:

The facts show that Islam tolerates non - Muslim minorities within the Muslim Nation and treats them as independent nations free to worship and live according to their own religious laws. This was outlined in the Covenant of Medina which became the world's first written constitution in 622 AD.

[b]Part of the Covenant of Medina

Muhammad invited the Jews to join the new society as an independent nation, governed by rabbinical court, within the Muslim Nation. The Jews accepted and an agreement known as The Covenant of Medina was signed in 622 AD.

The covenant guaranteed all the parties equality and freedom of religion; emphasized the sanctity of Medina, life, and individual possessions; and prohibited crime.

The Covenant of Medina was a giant leap for mankind and established the basis for treating non-Muslim minorities within the Muslim Nation which ruled the civilized world for more than 8 centuries

The Crusades:

The "real" holy wars were waged by the Crusaders against the Muslims in the Middle East. The Crusaders were brutal in their treatment of Muslim prisoners of war and civilians. When the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem, they killed 70,000 Muslims. When the Muslims re-conquered the city they did not kill anybody.

Orthodox Christians were considered heretics and therefore did not escape the Crusaders' brutality. The Orthodox Churches, which were safe during centuries of Muslim rule, were looted by the Crusaders. The Holy Grail was not the only thing the Crusaders took from the Orthodox churches.

When Muslims ended the Crusades by re-conquering Acre from the Crusaders, Pope Nicolas IV barred Christians from selling timber to Muslims. This embargo did not result in persecution of the Christians in the Muslim countries.

Check my full response to Lady and be enlightened, Olodo

@Todak



The above happened during the war time and I posted enough fact when I replied Lady. It happened when hypocrite brokered the peace treaty and would post it for you again to read without being biased. Olodo


88. Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-

90. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Why should they be killed after all they did not attack, and also no compulsion in religion, well, i sense here that muhammad felt betrayed and punished them by sending them to hell.
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Narrated 'Ikrima:
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

I dont understand the above hadith please. Which hadith is the above please?
Who collected the hadith please?

\How can you understand, since you could not find something to coverup for the prophet, you came up with non-understading, how come, you are a conversant reader of the queran, hadith and the corrupt bible, so do not give me no for an answer, ok, afterall i gave you where to find it in the hadith, so you must give me the usual explanation for muhammad's action there.



Quote
The facts show that Islam tolerates non - Muslim minorities within the Muslim Nation and treats them as independent nations free to worship and live according to their own religious laws. This was outlined in the Covenant of Medina which became the world's first written constitution in 622 AD.

If atall this was true then, why is it not true now, If want to travel to Saudi Arabia now, and if i happen to take my bible along, i will be jailed or if granted pardon, i will be deported immediately, so you are the one getting it wrong here ok. No muslim nation tolerate non- muslims not even christians, cos they know therever light shows up, darkness will depart.


Muhammad invited the Jews to join the new society as an independent nation, governed by rabbinical court, within the Muslim Nation. The Jews accepted and an agreement known as The Covenant of Medina was signed in 622 AD.

The covenant guaranteed all the parties equality and freedom of religion; emphasized the sanctity of Medina, life, and individual possessions; and prohibited crime.

The Covenant of Medina was a giant leap for mankind and established the basis for treating non-Muslim minorities within the Muslim Nation which ruled the civilized world for more than 8 centuries

The Crusades:

The "real" holy wars were waged by the Crusaders against the Muslims in the Middle East. The Crusaders were brutal in their treatment of Muslim prisoners of war and civilians. When the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem, they killed 70,000 Muslims. When the Muslims re-conquered the city they did not kill anybody.

Orthodox Christians were considered heretics and therefore did not escape the Crusaders' brutality. The Orthodox Churches, which were safe during centuries of Muslim rule, were looted by the Crusaders. The Holy Grail was not the only thing the Crusaders took from the Orthodox churches.

When Muslims ended the Crusades by re-conquering Acre from the Crusaders, Pope Nicolas IV barred Christians from selling timber to Muslims. This embargo did not result in persecution of the Christians in the Muslim countries.


Check my full response to Lady and be enlightened, Olodo Grin

Great history from a perfect liar, check out mine and tell me which come first
# 1.1 Byzantine–Arab Wars: 634-750
# 1.2 Conquest of Persia: 633-651
# 1.3 Conquest of Transoxiana: 662-709
# 1.4 Conquest of Sindh: 664-712
# 1.5 Conquest of Hispania: 711-718
# 1.6 Conquest of the Caucasus: 711-750
# 1.7 End of the Umayyad conquests: 718-750
# 1.8 Conquest of Nubia: 700-1606
# 1.9 Incursions into Southern Italy: 831-902
# 1.10 Conquest of Anatolia: 1060-1360
# 1.11 Byzantine-Ottoman Wars: 1299-1453

The French Wars of Religion (1562 - 1598)
First Crusade 1095-1099

* 2.1.1 Siege of Jerusalem
* 2.1.2 Crusade of 1101

Second Crusade 1147–1149
Third Crusade 1187–1192
Fourth Crusade 1202–1204
Albigensian Crusade
Children's Crusade
Fifth Crusade 1217–1221
Sixth Crusade 1228–1229
Seventh Crusade 1248–1254
Eighth Crusade 1270
Ninth Crusade 1271–1272
Northern Crusades (Baltic and Germany)

Other crusades

* Crusade against the Tatars
* Crusades in the Balkans
* Aragonese Crusade
* Alexandrian Crusade
* Hussite Crusade
* Swedish Crusades
so tell me where did you get that, did allah reveal it to you. Unfortunately you are wrong, go check again and next time do not evade from the truth, ITK

@post:

The truth is Islam is a vicious faith and the origin of it is from the Quran.

The evidence of all these is there for all to see. Recently Farouk AbdulMuttalab attempted to blow himself up in an aeroplane bound for Detroit.

What type of religion will teach someone to blow himself up ? Certainly that religion does not come from God.

the_truth:

@post:

The truth is Islam is a vicious faith and the origin of it is from the Quran.

The evidence of all these is there for all to see. Recently Farouk AbdulMuttalab attempted to blow himself up in an aeroplane bound for Detroit.

What type of religion will teach someone to blow himself up ? Certainly that religion does not come from God.

Hey, Islam did not teach Farouk to blow himself up.

Jarus:

Hey, Islam did not teach Farouk to blow himself up.

of course, Islam thought him to blow himself up. Every muslim is commanded to carry out that atrocity in the name of Islam. If you are liberal Muslim, then you are a bad muslim. Every muslim is a satanic terrorist. Its part of their calling as muslims. So stop denying facts and veracity.

Jarus:

Hey, Islam did not teach Farouk to blow himself up.

But he was trained by moslems Al Qaeda members and as a good muslim he obliged them to destroy lives of innocent souls

the_truth:

of course, Islam thought him to blow himself up. Every muslim is commanded to carry out that atrocity in the name of Islam. If you are liberal Muslim, then you are a bad muslim. Every muslim is a satanic terrorist. Its part of their calling as muslims. So stop denying facts and veracity.

toba:

But he was trained by moslems Al Qaeda members and as a good muslim he obliged them to destroy lives of innocent souls

Then let us have your proofs from that religion, or else we'll regard you as liers.

@post :

Muslims are very wicked, vicious and forever willing to slay, kill, and butcher. They don't have the spirit of forgiveness. The evidence is there for all to see. Farouk Muttalab attempted blowing himself up. He was obviously motivated by his Islamic brothers and from the Quran. It is the truth.
Every Muslim is a potential terrorist. Islamic religion is a religion that thrives in denying facts and reality.

They deny other people of different faith equal opportunity in their Islamic state, but want to claim the same in western nations and other Christian nations.

Any muslim reading this may not like what I have written, but it is true

t.truth:

@post :

Muslims are very wicked, vicious and forever willing to slay, kill, and butcher. They don't have the spirit of forgiveness. The evidence is there for all to see. Farouk Muttalab attempted blowing himself up. He was obviously motivated by his Islamic brothers and from the Quran. It is the truth.
Every Muslim is a potential terrorist. Islamic religion is a religion that thrives in denying facts and reality.

They deny other people of different faith equal opportunity in their Islamic state, but want to claim the same in western nations and other Christian nations.

Any muslim reading this may not like what I have written, but it is true

But I in contrast like it; it demonstrates to us who you really are.

Empty vessel makes louder noise, as one saying goes.

muhsin:

But I in contrast like it; it demonstrates to us who you really are.

Empty vessel makes louder noise, as one saying goes.

Between me and you who is an empty vessel ? It is a common knowledge that Islam is a wicked and vicious faith and origin of all these come from the Quran  That is why they are forever ready to kill, slay and butcher people at any slight provocation.

Islam never contributed anything to Nigeria. Rather it is a big problem. God have mercy !!!

Is this not focused ? That terrorist