why is that the HND holders can hardly get a good job in this country.what is the dychotomy between HND and B.sc? please somebody should answer me.

My Brother, i am more worried than you are.I am begining to cause my luck for ever going to A polytechnic.Imagine me sitting with my Friends for a UBA test on saturday and there comes a man telling all in the hall that the requirments for sitting for the test is BSc and that OND,HNDs are not allowed.Are this people better than some of us.We walk with some so called Bsc holders and we know what they got upstairs compared to some of us.please dont get me wrong i never said the bsc holders do not got things upstairs.Oh jamb!!!!Well God dey

Pally, it is not an embarrassment at all (having your HND) but in the present day Nigeria i strongly believe that the certificate is not fit for purpose!!! It's been badly ridiculed and bastardized. I think the reasoning in the high places is that if the Bsc holder cannot perform, what then can the HND holder deliver.
I think this HND of a thing should be scrapped!

gbeborun:

Pally, it is not an embarrassment at all (having your HND) but in the present day Nigeria i strongly believe that the certificate is not fit for purpose!!! It's been badly ridiculed and bastardized. I think the reasoning in the high places is that if the Bsc holder cannot perform, what then can the HND holder deliver.
I think this HND of a thing should be scrapped!

What a bad way for Nigerians to reason. If Bsc holders become incompetent, it directly implies that no other persons including the HND holders can be competent. May God save this country called Nigeria.

It is well, Although some organisations discriminate, there are quite a number of good coys that dont. It is well

i finished under the faculty of education. looking into the submission of Asby Commission, the purpose of Polytechnic education is to produce MIDDLE MANPOWER, while university produce SENIOR MANPOWER(if i still remember very well shaa, i stand to be corrected). Iam sorry for the discrimination having known that poly graudates even stay longer in school more than university and are better skill wise (technically).
But thats how Nigerian educational system has been set up right from inception, and i dont think it could be reversed. but it can, only if separate courses could be mapped for uni and poly.

Yes, mypeace polytechnics were established to produce middle-level manpower. Can u tell us what a middle-level qualification is? I believe if you know what middle-level is you will be able to know where to place HND among ND, NCE, HND & Bsc/BA/BTech.

Spending 5 years to do HND is not easy, only to come out and be discriminated against. It's unfair but that's the country we live in. A BSc would get a job faster than a HND anyday anytime and even if the HND eventually gets a job, he might not be able to rise above a certain position if he does not upgrade. It's safer for HND graduates to work towards a masters and if possible get a BSc b4 venturing to masters

Donmayor, u're right. But HND holders dont need to do a BSC again before going for masters. Is the HND not meant to be equivalent to a Degree in Nigeria? What is the point of doing Bsc after obtaining HND if they are equivalent? Bros the problem is the country we are living in. We value paper qualifications more than skills. HND and Bsc are equivalent qualifications if you care to know, but the HND is a qualification with technical bias while the university degree is a theoretical qualification.

You don't need BSc to go for your masters but the stigma of being an HND graduate would still pursue a person even though he has a masters - that the way companies are o unless if things change

What is the stigma in having HND? pally i know a few people that are professors and Doctors 2day that started from OND, HND, PGD, MSc and PhD, and they are lecturers in some nigerian universities now. Why were they not discriminated and denied employment as lecturers in the university because of thier HND? It is because polytechnics in nigeria dont have the constitutional backings to run Masters and PhD programs now, that is why all these nonsense is happening. I assure you soonest nigerian polytechnics will soon start running masters and PhD programs, and even people from universities will be rushing down to do their masters there. Right now a lot of university graduates still go to some polytechnics that run PGD programs for their PGD. Kadpoly and YabaTech are examples of such polytechnics; you can find out if you are in doubt.

ishmael:

What is the stigma in having HND? pally i know a few people that are professors and Doctors 2day that started from OND, HND, PGD, MSc and PhD, and they are lecturers in some nigerian universities now. Why were they not discriminated and denied employment as lecturers in the university because of their HND? It is because polytechnics in nigeria don't have the constitutional backings to run Masters and PhD programs now, that is why all these nonsense is happening. I assure you soonest nigerian polytechnics will soon start running masters and PhD programs, and even people from universities will be rushing down to do their masters there. Right now a lot of university graduates still go to some polytechnics that run PGD programs for their PGD. Kadpoly and YabaTech are examples of such polytechnics; you can find out if you are in doubt.

I was talking about corporate Nigeria not in the academics. I know of people who had masters but all because of HND they never got beyond a particular level. The academics is a different ball game. It's all about reading. Those University graduates who go topolytechnic to run their PGD probably don't have the necessary prerequisites to be admitted for the University PGD. Thats as far as I know, The discrimination against HND graduates exist and there's also a stigma associated to it in the Corporate world in Nigeria unless it's a kind of company where u can rise from the position of clerk to Managing director

It is Long throat that is diturbing NIGERIAN. Where ever you find your self thank your creator. I thank God with my HND I was able to do better than those who had BSc.
You are what you think you are. To me HND is not embrarrassment.

OND was the middle level not HND or PGD obtained from the polytechnic.

For God's sake what pre-requisite does a second class lower Bsc holder needs again to do a PGD in the university, after getting a Bsc from the same university?? Pally u must be kidding. You don just want to accept it that uni graduates go to do PGD in kaduna polytechnic and Yaba college of Technology. Please you are free to find out from these schools i have mentioned to you. And secondly We have GM's ED's and MD's that are HND holders in some corporate organizations in nigeria including banks. University man, just accept the fact that HND certificate in nigeria is as good as your Bsc.

men we dont need to kid our self I attend interview with what so called B.SC in one of the engineering company wher d BSC has 2 1 and unfortunate for me with my lower credit in my HND in ELECTRCAL With a white man who dot accept bribe from any proffesor unlikely for the university don the white man ask us that what is the load that 250KVA generator can carry the what so called th uni don said that the load it can carry is 250 voltage plus the current the whuteman who is so vast in calculation ask he are sure u gradute from this federal school with embarrasment luckily for me who is a lower credit HND i calculated the load current 4 which i gaave as I=KVA/SQR3X415cos0 as i am mailing this iam working with coy the BSC left with embarament which i console he i will help him out in due course .
PLS MEMBER OF THE HOUSE STOP UR DISCRIMINATION AM LIVING BIG WITH HND.ARE WE GOIG TO EAT THE CERTIFICATE AFTER GRADUATION?

I'm not contesting whether it's as good or not, I am contesting the value in Nigeria. Put 500 BSc graduates with 2-1 and 500 HND graduates, 400 BSc graduates would go farther while 100 HND graduates would go farther. The percentage of the HND graduates that u think have made it is low compared to the BSc. It is safer to do a BSc than an HND. And if I'm not mistaken, ur going to polytechnic was a last resort after attempts to enter University failed. We live in Nigeria and I understand the fact that u would have psyched up urself to see the good in HNd but its not always so

Donmayor, i agree with you that most of us actually went to poly as a second resort, but that does not mean that it is an embarrassment to hold HND certificate. Keep what the soceity thinks HND is aside, can you tell us the difference btw HND and Bsc in terms of course work?? I did HND in statistics and i will say it in this forum that i did more in the polytechnic in statistics than those who went to university. Any Bsc statistics graduate that disagrees with my claim should come out and defend the university. List all the courses you did in your Bsc Statistics program from 100L to 400Levels and i will list mine for you from ND1 to HND2; you will know that most Bsc statistics graduates are not qualified and compentent to be called STATISTICIANS. Mind you i have seen Bsc statistics course curriculum for Nigerian universities already; they do less than the polytechnics do and are not worthy to be called STATISTICIANS. List Bsc Statistics courses for me and i will list HND statistics courses for you too.

I personally believe that polytechnics graduates come out more experienced than university graduates. In terms of course work, not much difference exists. Like one of my lecturers once said a University engineer takes a supervisory role while a polytechnic engineer (technician) is the one doing the actual work. The major difference between university and polytechnic graduates is the way it is perceived in the society and honestly I have noticed among the few friends I have that are in polytechnics that there is this feeling of inferiority. It is a well known fact that ur perception of urself is a huge determining factor of ur altitude. There are alot of things to say but I find it hard to put them in words. The truth still remains that even though the course work of polytechnics contain more technicalities than the university, the worth of a university graduate is higher than that of a polytechnic graduate except in cases where the polytechnic graduate exhibits astounding accomplishments.
I do not know how true the story of Access Bank laying of their polytechnic graduates is sometimes last year or 2 years ago but I have thought about the possibility of this and I came to the conclusion that it is the poor way in which many polytechnic graduates carry themselves that can attribute to such. Thats one plus I noticed in the University tooo, the level of enlightenment is greater than what you get in polys (this is not a 100% fact)

point of correction, polytechnics train Engineering Technologists at HND level. ND holders may be regarded as Technicians, agreed. Yes, some polytechnic graduates feel inferior when in the midst of university graduates, i have seen where a poly graduate was ashamed to tell people he graduated from a polytechnic, i had to scold the guy for behaving that way. But that is not to say that some HND holders don't feel superior. Some of us even feel we are better than some of you with Bsc. The truth is that some Bsc holders are only lucky to have the Bsc certificate which they carry about, but inwardly they are nothing to write home about. Yes, i have met with some university graduates that find it difficult to solve simple problems even in their areas of specialization. So what will you say about that? Would you prefer to employ such uni graduate to work for you to a poly graduate that is competent? It is the duty of you and i to educate the society and make them know that HND and BSc are mere qualifications, but what makes you a professional are the skills you have acquired which you can use to make positive changes to improve the well-being of the society and the nation at large.

The fact that u are a HND graduate and u are good does not mean 99% of HND graduates are good. You might just be an exception, There's an exception to every law right? The university graduates u met who are dumb are also exceptions. But show me a university graduate from a well recognized schul like OAU or Unilag with 2-1, and the probability that he would out perform the HND graduate is very certain unless if there is some form of post graduate study or if it's a job requiring an experience the poly graduate might have gotten during his industrial training. Graduates from some Nigerian universities are not worthy to hold the BSc, same thing applies to poly's. Nigerian educational system is wack and u cannot compare a graduate from electrical engineering at the University of Lagos with a graduate in Electrical Engineering at the Delta State University (if they do engr), They are both Bsc holders but the Unilag one would definitely be better than the Delsu one. I don't have proof.
Those of the poly grads that feel they are better than the BSc grads are few and are those who companies have given a chance to rise. Read the first 2 posts on this topic. I assure u dats the view of majority of HND holders. You are in the minority.

Donmayor, i must confess i really like the way you have been talking on this HND and Bsc issue. You've been unbiased thru out. I believe you will definitely employ competent HND holders to work in your company. Please we need people like you to educate the society on the relevence of polytechnics; and secondly that HND is a technical qualification needed by any developing nation. Cheers!!

@Donmayor

Good talk, but please try correct yourself on the issue of someone from a Federal University with a 2.1 being better than someone from a State University with the same grade. because that in itself amounts to another discrimination.

Moreso some of the graduates that i have known that i can say that are real good are products of Polytechnics.I know some schools (though i wont like to start giving names) that when you hear that a person graduated from there you won't need to drill that person much before you know that the standard of the school the person finished from is rubbish

I stand by that claim. It's not discrimination it's fact but I won't say it's all state universities. thank God that NUC has started living up to its responsibilty by denying accreditation to some courses offered by some universities. And i hope u know that the worst hit is state universities with if i'm not mistaken 1 having none of it's courses accredited. LASU had all its engr programs delisted, Tell me what of those who have graduated from there. Tell me the kind of graduates they would be without labs or engr workshops? Being good is not the work of the polytechnic or university. Being good is the person. Those who you say graduated frompolytechnic and are real good might have been better if they graduated from the university.

@Donmayor

Am a little disappointed at your standing by your claim when you have no substantive evidence, you will be bruising the minds more on this very issue if you continue that way,

Who told you that State Universities are doing badly? do you know that some of the state universities you are complaining about were given top marks for different courses during the last NUC accreditation and on what source do you have it that all Engineering Courses were delisted for LASU? I know they had a roblem with MBA but this one you are coming up with, hmmn, people go bite you o!

Donmayor, yes some polytechnic graduates would have done better if they were university graduates; so also some university graduates too would have done better if they were polytechnic graduates. Some engineers would have been doing better as engineering technologists and some engineering technologist would have been doing better as engineers. Donmayor the skills some polytechnic graduates in engineering technology possess most university engineers lack it and vice versa. The point here is that you cannot eat your cake and still have it. You can not be an engineer and still be an engineering Technologist again, its not possible. So you have to choose one and leave the other for another man. To round this up we all need each other. University graduates need polytechnic graduates and vice versa to make things work well.

Donmayor, its on one of the nigerian newspapers today that ESUT is one of the best universities in nigeria, among the 1st 6. I think it should be thisday newspaper or so. It will be very wrong of you to look down at state universities. I dont believe that federal university graduates are better than than state university graduates. It sounds very funny and naive. Anyway sha its nigerian mentality.

@Donmayor

Check this out:

http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/features/education/2006/apr/18/education-18-04-2006-001.htm

and this :

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-1101.0.html

some times i find it hard to beleive that with the rapid growth of this country our leaders are still not matured to handle some local problems.

are these people actually there for the job or for the money?

I went to a university! But it annoys me to see that poly grads are treated the way they are by firms in the country! Poly grads have wider knowledge than us- I must say.

Can someone just tell me why the treatment huh! please cos none of the execs can so far!

Pls tell them o!

Its unfair that its happening, i actually am B.Sc too but have said severally that all forms of discrimination should be discouraged at all costs whether it is B.Sc vs HND or Federal Vs State University, 2.1 or 2.2 grade, its nauseating how we use paper qualifications as a standard instead of getting the best hands to do the jobs