frank317:


Who is Christ? The God that allowed himself to be born after he slept with Mary so that he could be killed as a sacrifice to himself?

I will ask you again... Is this the bullcrap you want me to believe? Seriously?

Know the truth and believe in it.

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Has morality reduced to an opinion poll? Why do you find it so hard and unreasonable to give reasons why you think no one is perfect? Why do you think that Someone who does good is good? Who determined(s) that? What is the criteria for saying that? is Stalin good if he gives alms to the poor? What is good, because to me God is good, marriage is good, prayer is good. To some other person, God is not good, prayer is a waste, marriage is not good or unnecessary. Who is right in the two of us? Is it opinion poll that will/shall determine? Even opinion polls change and fluctuate you know?

This is becoming tiring because you have resulted to asking silly questions.

It you understand what perfection is, then you will know its not a human attribute. Now I am wondering if you are here for a joke... Why do I think someone who DOES good is good? You why do you think that someone who repairs car is a mechanic?
So if Stalin gives alms to the poor, he is bad?

If you say marriage is good and ai ask you why... You will tell me why I.e, you tell me it brings families together, makes a lady feel fulfilled etc.

And another says marriage is bad and I ask him why... He tells me it leads to divorce etc.

If a jury weighs the advantages and disadvantages given, they could be able to determine if marriage is good or bad. There is not difficult there.

But If I ask you why is God good... You say because he is good

i described to you how one can be perfect using the english dictionary and the God standard, you were speechless. Who or what is perfect? What is your standard or guage that makes you arrive at the conclusion that no one is perfect? i think it is good for me to preach the gospel to you and pray for you. i know it when i do it, would you? When religious extremists do what they do, THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING GOOD. They do not know that they are doing bad, neither do they even care.

You gave me a dictionary meaning of perfection, which is cool, and now you are asking me what is my standard or guage to concluding that one is perfect. Perfection is for one to be without error... No human can be without error.
I don't subscribe to any God's standard because you are yet to even show me what ever God did that made him good. You are even yet to show me any God.

Yes someone might think his wife is perfect, the person knows he errs, its not a fact. Its just the use if words to describe how he likes her. I have once said my girl is perfect but I know deep down she is not.

Okay you know prayer or preaching is good when you do it, but you think when I help a friend I don't known it is good?

Religious people are confused if they don't know when they do good or not. It is even confusion that makes them religious.

Goodness is not a human concept. The things that existed before humans were good and bad. There was good water, there was bad water, there were good fruits and trees, there were those spoilt and poisonous ones. There was good weather and bad weather etc. i am trying to stay within your ambit of processing. Does science not go about talking like they know it all? No one can be good without God.

Shut up there... You don't know what existed before humans so stopt telling me bull crap.

You can't even tell me why you think your God is good... Now you want me to accept goodness is his concept... How's that?

Hiswordxray:

Know the truth and believe in it.

What's the truth? The bull shi.t I was recounted earlier? Are you all right?

frank317:

This is becoming tiring because you have resulted to asking silly questions.

It you understand what perfection is, then you will know its not a human attribute. Now I am wondering if you are here for a joke... Why do I think someone who DOES good is good? You why do you think that someone who repairs car is a mechanic?
So if Stalin gives alms to the poor, he is bad?

If you say marriage is good and ai ask you why... You will tell me why I.e, you tell me it brings families together, makes a lady feel fulfilled etc.

And another says marriage is bad and I ask him why... He tells me it leads to divorce etc.

If a jury weighs the advantages and disadvantages given, they could be able to determine if marriage is good or bad. There is not difficult there.

But If I ask you why is God good... You say because he is good

They are not silly questions but questions you cannot answer because they shatter your poor thinking. You have decided to stick to your opinion for NO REASON. Perfection is who/what's attribute? Can you give me three examples of what perfection is and why? There are people who repair cars who are not mechanics, they simply have the experience or can DIY(do it yourself). You have consistently avoided telling us if God is good based on your premise of good. The Bible and christians record and recall God's good deeds, is He good? That is your premise right, that if someone does good then he is good. So, is God good?
Are you saying that Stalin is good? i hope you know Stalin? Joseph Stalin of Russia. With all you know or learn about him, if he gives alms to a beggar in your street, is he good?
The very point you make about marriage is what i have been saying all along, there is need for a higher authority to determine what is good or bad. There is nothing difficult there, you see.
God is good because He is the definition and determinant of what good is. So, more than deeds, He is the one that determines if a deed is good or bad.
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

You gave me a dictionary meaning of perfection, which is cool, and now you are asking me what is my standard or guage to concluding that one is perfect. Perfection is for one to be without error... No human can be without error.
I don't subscribe to any God's standard because you are yet to even show me what ever God did that made him good. You are even yet to show me any God.

Yes someone might think his wife is perfect, the person knows he errs, its not a fact. Its just the use if words to describe how he likes her. I have once said my girl is perfect but I know deep down she is not.

Okay you know prayer or preaching is good when you do it, but you think when I help a friend I don't known it is good?

Religious people are confused if they don't know when they do good or not. It is even confusion that makes them religious.

Again, give me that three examples of what is perfect. Who determines what is error, because one man's poison is another man's food. What you may think to be error and waste and rubbish, is what another person is using to make millions and become wealthy and happy and satisfied. goodness is not primarily by deed, so i do need to show you what God did that made him good. It is not what He did that made Him good, it is His nature to be good. i did not know you were looking for God, maybe i would have shown you earlier. God is not visible to the human eyes, He is a Spirit. Just as you do not see radio waves or ultraviolet rays, they are in another frequency/sphere. In a similar vein, God is not visible to the physical eyes.
BTW, i'm not talking about you and your girl. i am talking about people like in the Israel and Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, who think it is perfectly okay, both deep inside and shallow outside, that they can kill others. that they were born to kill others, that some other people do not deserve to live. i am talking about tension in the Middle East and the conviction of mass murderers and terrorists. They believe, and their followers believe passionately in what they are doing. There are people who believe deep down and shallow up, that some other gender or tribe or persuasion should be suppressed and never rise. When religious extremists do what they do, THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING GOOD. They do not know that they are doing bad, neither do they even care. i mention religious extremists because i am trying as best as i can to make sure you get/understand it. It is not limited to religion, the world's most genocidal maniacs and despots have been non-religious. They believed passionately in what they did.

Shut up there... You don't know what existed before humans so stopt telling me bull crap.

You can't even tell me why you think your God is good... Now you want me to accept goodness is his concept... How's that?

You do not have to behave rude or immature to have a discussion or remind me that you are an unbeliever, it is never a sign of smartness or brilliance. So, are you saying that the things i mentioned(water, fruit, trees, weather) did not exist before humans? You say they are rubbish, can you logically explain how? i have repeatedly told you why God is good, you have refused to see it. God is good because it is His nature, it is what He is, He defines and determines goodness. Goodness is not determined primarily by deed else you should be repeatedly wailing God is good for the next few years non-stop.

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They are not silly questions but questions you cannot answer because they shatter your poor thinking. You have decided to stick to your opinion for NO REASON. Perfection is who/what's attribute? Can you give me three examples of what perfection is and why? There are people who repair cars who are not mechanics, they simply have the experience or can DIY(do it yourself). You have consistently avoided telling us if God is good based on your premise of good. The Bible and christians record and recall God's good deeds, is He good? That is your premise right, that if someone does good then he is good. So, is God good?
Are you saying that Stalin is good? i hope you know Stalin? Joseph Stalin of Russia. With all you know or learn about him, if he gives alms to a beggar in your street, is he good?
The very point you make about marriage is what i have been saying all along, there is need for a higher authority to determine what is good or bad. There is nothing difficult there, you see.
God is good because He is the definition and determinant of what good is. So, more than deeds, He is the one that determines if a deed is good or bad.
Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.






Again, give me that three examples of what is perfect. Who determines what is error, because one man's poison is another man's food. What you may think to be error and waste and rubbish, is what another person is using to make millions and become wealthy and happy and satisfied. goodness is not primarily by deed, so i do need to show you what God did that made him good. It is not what He did that made Him good, it is His nature to be good. i did not know you were looking for God, maybe i would have shown you earlier. God is not visible to the human eyes, He is a Spirit. Just as you do not see radio waves or ultraviolet rays, they are in another frequency/sphere. In a similar vein, God is not visible to the physical eyes.
BTW, i'm not talking about you and your girl. i am talking about people like in the Israel and Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, who think it is perfectly okay, both deep inside and shallow outside, that they can kill others. that they were born to kill others, that some other people do not deserve to live. i am talking about tension in the Middle East and the conviction of mass murderers and terrorists. They believe, and their followers believe passionately in what they are doing. There are people who believe deep down and shallow up, that some other gender or tribe or persuasion should be suppressed and never rise. When religious extremists do what they do, THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING GOOD. They do not know that they are doing bad, neither do they even care. i mention religious extremists because i am trying as best as i can to make sure you get/understand it. It is not limited to religion, the world's most genocidal maniacs and despots have been non-religious. They believed passionately in what they did.






You do not have to behave rude or immature to have a discussion or remind me that you are an unbeliever, it is never a sign of smartness or brilliance. So, are you saying that the things i mentioned(water, fruit, trees, weather) did not exist before humans? You say they are rubbish, can you logically explain how? i have repeatedly told you why God is good, you have refused to see it. God is good because it is His nature, it is what He is, He defines and determines goodness. Goodness is not determined primarily by deed else you should be repeatedly wailing God is good for the next few years non-stop.

Lol... I will have to repeat everything I said before to reply u. You showed me how God is good by telling me goodness is his nature? And I presum you got that from the bible? Well I think my dog is good too because that is its nature.

If you have nothing meaninful to tell me pls don't bother replying.

frank317:


Lol... I will have to repeat everything I said before to reply u. You showed me how God is good by telling me goodness is his nature? And I presum you got that from the bible? Well I think my dog is good too because that is its nature.

If you have nothing meaninful to tell me pls don't bother replying.

i actually expected you to run away earlier. You can have nothing to say, because there is nothing for you to say than repeat boring copy and pasted ideas. Think for yourself and give us something more reasonable than trying to force us to believe your words.

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i actually expected you to run away earlier. You can have nothing to say, because there is nothing for you to say than repeat boring copy and pasted ideas. Think for yourself and give us something more reasonable than trying to force us to believe your words.

You still haven't told us how God is good. You just said it.

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God is good because it is His nature, it is what He is, He defines and determines goodness.

Do you consider a God that rants like this a God whose nature is good?

Amos 4:9-12

“Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
destroying them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.

“I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.

“I overthrew some of you
as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.

“Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God.”

dalaman:


You still haven't told us how God is good. You just said it.

You want His deeds reeled out?

dalaman:


Do you consider a God that rants like this a God whose nature is good?

Amos 4:9-12

“Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards,
destroying them with blight and mildew.
Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.

“I sent plagues among you
as I did to Egypt.
I killed your young men with the sword,
along with your captured horses.
I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.

“I overthrew some of you
as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire,
yet you have not returned to me,”
declares the Lord.

“Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God.”

When you say a God like, who do you compare Him to? You forgot to state.

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When you say a God like, who do you compare Him to? You forgot to state.

To lunatics and psychopaths like Hitler for example.

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You want His deeds reeled out?

I just reeled out one of his deeds for you. Do you consider it a good deed?

dalaman:


To lunatics and psychopaths like Hitler for example.

Oh, lunatics and psychopaths are Gods? i never knew. Can we really compare God to Hitler using the Bible? God created heaven and earth, created all humans, created the Sun and the rain, the fruits and the plants and the animals, all the mineral resources. All these according to the Bible too. Lemme not start with His miracles, His book, His love and mercy and forgiveness, all in the Bible too. Are you prepared to use the Bible to compare God to anybody or god?

dalaman:


I just reeled out one of his deeds for you. Do you consider it a good deed?

i already told you, deeds are not primary determinants of a Person being good. Good is measured by the God standard. i have asked you and your ilk if Stalin and co are good because they did one good deed or another, you have being pussyfooting instead. Are you saying there are no good deeds found in the Bible done by God?

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Oh, lunatics and psychopaths are Gods? i never knew. Can we really compare God to Hitler using the Bible? God created heaven and earth, created all humans, created the Sun and the rain, the fruits and the plants and the animals, all the mineral resources. All these according to the Bible too. Lemme not start with His miracles, His book, His love and mercy and forgiveness, all in the Bible too. Are you prepared to use the Bible to compare God to anybody or god?

Even by the biblical standard God seems to be unstable and hypocritical. He tells people not to commit murder in as a commandment and the next minute he is telling the same people to go annihilate another group of people. He also tells people to be humble while he himself claims to be jealous, vicious and a consuming and raging fire. He tells people to love each other, be forgiving and do away with jealousy while he himself proudly says that he is jealous, visits the wrong doings on parents on their kids(where is the forgiveness). The nature of God as portrayed in the bible is all over the place. More like a schizophrenic personality that does everything. He stands for nothing because he is just all over the place.

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i already told you, deeds are not primary determinants of a Person being good. Good is measured by the God standard. i have asked you and your ilk if Stalin and co are good because they did one good deed or another, you have being pussyfooting instead. Are you saying there are no good deeds found in the Bible done by God?

I asked you a simple question, you keep claiming that God is good by nature. I just showed you one of his actions according to the bible and asked you if you consider that to be good. A simple yes or no will do instead of all this diversionary action you are trying to engage in.

dalaman:


Even by the biblical standard God seems to be unstable and hypocritical. He tells people not to commit murder in as a commandment and the next minute he is telling the same people to go annihilate another group of people. He also tells people to be humble while he himself claims to be jealous, vicious and a consuming and raging fire. He tells people to love each other, be forgiving and do away with jealousy while he himself proudly says that he is jealous, visits the wrong doings on parents on their kids(where is the forgiveness). The nature of God as portrayed in the bible is all over the place. More like a schizophrenic personality that does everything. He stands for nothing because he is just all over the place.

The nature of God portrayed in the bible is good and consistent, what you lack is perspective. The Judge or law enforcement can do things that civilians and co cannot and should not do.

dalaman:


I asked you a simple question, you keep claiming that God is good by nature. I just showed you one of his actions according to the bible and asked you if you consider that to be good. A simple yes or no will do instead of all this diversionary action you are trying to engage in.

Those are not diversionary actions but straight questions you refuse to answer. Your question required them for you to understand the answer. It you insist, what God did is good, yes. There has to be checks and balances, and punishment for wrong doing. God is the Judge in charge. Is judgment and justice good, yes.

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The nature of God portrayed in the bible is good and consistent, what you lack is perspective. The Judge or law enforcement can do things that civilians and co cannot and should not do.

Not true. God himself claims he is jealous in some parts of the bible. He also says he is a God of war and vengeance in some other parts. Are these good qualities? The nature of God as portrayed in the bible is haphazard and inconsistent. The bible has God clearly admitting that he did evil and apologized for the evil he did.

"If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.Jeremiah 42:10"


If God whose nature is only good will be incapable of doing evil. No matter how you look at it, the bible doesn't support the picture of God you are trying to paint and sell.

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Those are not diversionary actions but straight questions you refuse to answer. Your question required them for you to understand the answer. It you insist, what God did is good, yes. There has to be checks and balances, and punishment for wrong doing. God is the Judge in charge. Is judgment and justice good, yes.

Is killing other people for worshiping other Gods justice? Is sexism good? What about slavery? Is it a good thing?

dalaman:


Not true. God himself claims he is jealous in some parts of the bible. He also says he is a God of war and vengeance in some other parts. Are these good qualities? The nature of God as portrayed in the bible is haphazard and inconsistent. The bible has God clearly admitting that he did evil and apologized for the evil he did.

"If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.Jeremiah 42:10"


If God whose nature is only good will be incapable of doing evil. No matter how you look at it, the bible doesn't support the picture of God you are trying to paint and sell.

Of course it is necessary that God is jealous in the context He claims to be. Truth has to be exclusive, and exclusivity demands that one be 'biased' to a particular view. Every other view becomes wrong in that context. You cannot serve God and other gods. 2+2 has to be 4. 4 retains the right to be jealous when you bring up another figure, because the truth is 4. The jealousy God is against is vain envy, not being content with your position or possession because you are coveting another person's position or possession. That is a wrong jealousy and the Bible tells us not to be. But you are 'jealous' and rightly so over your wife or husband, or children, or position. If you are the head or master of a place or office or establishment, and someone else is taking your place, of course you correct things, because it is yours. It is different from seeing somebody else's car or bank account or cloths and wanting to take it from them or becoming unhappy about it. Get the context right please. Children of God belong to God and have a covenant with God, and God will very well jealously guard that agreement and redemption and possession.
God is a God of war and vengeance because He is Judge/law enforcement. Law enforcement is not child's play. It sometimes requires force, constraints, detention. These are not actions taken on lawful citizens or everybody but on offenders and defaulters and they have to be done. Justice is an essential and critical part of the human society, we are not animals. Punishment is not good, prison is not good, but these are necessary. The justice departments have to confine people, deny them of freedom and of access, and sometimes carry out capital punishment. That is justice and these are not exciting or joyful things to do. i do not like that any human being go to prison or be denied anything or fail an exam/test for instance. But these things have to happen. A lazy student will likely fail, even though the F grade is not good, and prison is not good. In the same vein, God realizes and sort of regrets these things. He is not sadistic about punishing people but there has to be justice and fairness, and a reaping of what you sow. So when you quote Jeremiah 42, read and know the full context, then ask questions. The children of Israel sinned severally and offended God for decades, and then God punished them. But He was not happy that He punished them, it is as straight as that in summary.

dalaman:


Is killing other people for worshiping other Gods justice? Is sexism good? What about slavery? Is it a good thing?

You are mixing issues and largely out of context. Worshipping other gods by who and in what context? What is sexism or stereotyping or discrimination. Are you aware of the FACT that the male is different from the female? Are we discriminating by having different toilets and restrooms. Are you the man in/of your house or both of you? Is that discrimination? What is slavery, and in what context does the Bible support it? These are some of the context in which you should elaborate before making blanket statements.

johnydon22:

Speaking of hell, the more reason why you should know it costs not much to forget sinners in hell for eternity.

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Of course it is necessary that God is jealous in the context He claims to be. Truth has to be exclusive, and exclusivity demands that one be 'biased' to a particular view. Every other view becomes wrong in that context. You cannot serve God and other gods. 2+2 has to be 4. 4 retains the right to be jealous when you bring up another figure, because the truth is 4. The jealousy God is against is vain envy, not being content with your position or possession because you are coveting another person's position or possession. That is a wrong jealousy and the Bible tells us not to be. But you are 'jealous' and rightly so over your wife or husband, or children, or position. If you are the head or master of a place or office or establishment, and someone else is taking your place, of course you correct things, because it is yours. It is different from seeing somebody else's car or bank account or cloths and wanting to take it from them or becoming unhappy about it. Get the context right please. Children of God belong to God and have a covenant with God, and God will very well jealously guard that agreement and redemption and possession.

God as described in the bible displayed both type of jealousy. Remember he was jealous of the Canaanites because they were living in a land flowing with milk and honey while his own chosen people were roaming round the desert. He had to send his own chosen people out of jealousy to go and take the land of the others because it was flowing with milk and honey. Is land grab a good thing? Why not create their own land flowing with milk and honey for them?

God is a God of war and vengeance because He is Judge/law enforcement. Law enforcement is not child's play. It sometimes requires force, constraints, detention. These are not actions taken on lawful citizens or everybody but on offenders and defaulters and they have to be done. Justice is an essential and critical part of the human society, we are not animals. Punishment is not good, prison is not good, but these are necessary. The justice departments have to confine people, deny them of freedom and of access, and sometimes carry out capital punishment. That is justice and these are not exciting or joyful things to do. i do not like that any human being go to prison or be denied anything or fail an exam/test for instance. But these things have to happen. A lazy student will likely fail, even though the F grade is not good, and prison is not good. In the same vein, God realizes and sort of regrets these things. He is not sadistic about punishing people but there has to be justice and fairness, and a reaping of what you sow. So when you quote Jeremiah 42, read and know the full context, then ask questions. The children of Israel sinned severally and offended God for decades, and then God punished them. But He was not happy that He punished them, it is as straight as that in summary.

God clearly said he was apologized and said he was sorry for the evil he did against them. Meaning he knew his actions were wrong. He did not only apologize but also acknowledged that his actions were wrong. If God can apologize and acknowledge his wrong doing then why are you still insisting that his nature is pure goodness? You still haven't shown me any good deed he has done. Do you consider starving people to death a good kind of punishment? What about sending wild animals to kill people's kids? Is that a good kind of judgement? Will you do that as a judge? Do humans do that? Does Amos 4:9-12 describe a good judge or a sick person? If I commit treason against my country will it be right for my children to be killed as well for my wrong doing?

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You are mixing issues and largely out of context. Worshipping other gods by who and in what context? What is sexism or stereotyping or discrimination. Are you aware of the FACT that the male is different from the female?

Men are different from women but are men better than women as human beings?


[quote]Are we discriminating by having different toilets and restrooms. Are you the man in/of your house or both of you? Is that discrimination?

Why is it wrong for women to teach men? Why must women be quite and not usurp the authority of men?

What is slavery, and in what context does the Bible support it? These are some of the context in which you should elaborate before making blanket statements.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Is this a good thing to do?

dalaman:


God as described in the bible displayed both type of jealousy. Remember he was jealous of the Canaanites because they were living in a land flowing with milk and honey while his own chosen people were roaming round the desert. He had to send his own chosen people out of jealousy to go and take the land of the others because it was flowing with milk and honey. Is land grab a good thing? Why not create their own land flowing with milk and honey for them?

Wow, i postponed replying this and almost forgot that i had not replied. You're funny you know? The earth belongs to God and He cannot be jealous of someone else using His stuff. The Canaanites did not own the land but God. God called Abraham(the father of the Jews) from Ur of the Chaldees and took him to a place(Canaan) that God promised him that his children/descendants will inherit. God drove the seven nations of Canaan out just like any landlord can drive out his tenant and put who he wants. Read Genesis 12v1-7.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God clearly said he was apologized and said he was sorry for the evil he did against them. Meaning he knew his actions were wrong. He did not only apologize but also acknowledged that his actions were wrong. If God can apologize and acknowledge his wrong doing then why are you still insisting that his nature is pure goodness? You still haven't shown me any good deed he has done. Do you consider starving people to death a good kind of punishment? What about sending wild animals to kill people's kids? Is that a good kind of judgement? Will you do that as a judge? Do humans do that? Does Amos 4:9-12 describe a good judge or a sick person? If I commit treason against my country will it be right for my children to be killed as well for my wrong doing?

Yes of course. God was sorry as He is not sadistic in punishing people. He is not happy to see anyone perish. It is not pleasant for people to be captives, or to suffer loss or hunger or deprivation. These are some of the punishments meted on the Israelites. Are they right to you? Is captivity, hunger, deprivation right to you? You seem to have a problem to think that God sees them as wrong, so are they right?
Punishment is not fun, but it is a necessary part of any society. Humans are governed by laws. Every normal city has laws, and law enforcement agencies, courts, offices and prisons. This is an essential part of a good place to live. i have told you several times that goodness is not a subset of good deeds, good is God's nature. If you want to see a list of God's goodness, read the Bible. i will mention three to help you. God provided food, water and light for the Israelites in the wilderness. God forgave sinners all their sins. God healed many sick people in the Bible. Those are three good deeds, happy now? What is a good kind of punishment, mention examples you would have employed in the cases you referred to.

Men are different from women but are men better than women as human beings?

No i do not think so or say so.

dalaman:
Why is it wrong for women to teach men? Why must women be quite and not usurp the authority of men?

i would not say 'wrong' in the context that you think, i would rather use the word "inappropriate". While it may not be wrong for me to somersault or be in my undies, it is inappropriate for me to somersault in the streets or in the banking hall. It is inappropriate for me to go to work in my undies, or attend a board meeting or a function that way. God has designated functions for everybody and there is some form of order in religious activity and worship. Women can do many things like teach fellow women, youths and children(who by the way usually make up more than 60% of a church gathering), they can do many other important activities like prayer, worship, singing, evangelism, writing books etc. It is an administrative policy thing, the women do not take up the work of the teacher or chief leader in CHURCH. It's a simple organisational structure. In some organisations, there are criteria, competencies, essential and desireable skills for each position. We don't call that discrimination or victimization. It's simply company policy or HR admin stuff. Teaching or heading a church are not as important as prayer, evangelism, having faith, living a powerful christian testimony for the world etc.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

Is this a good thing to do?

Is it a current thing? i ask because of proper context. God/the Bible was the first to abrogate slavery centuries before civilizations started considering it. The new Testament is very clear, that there is no jew or gentile or bond or free in Christ. No christian can purchase any foreigner because we are all one, and the blood of Jesus Christ has broken such middle wall of partition. So, no point asking Is this a good thing to do? It IS not even done. In fact, what we see today is entertainment and sports BUYING and SELLING people to different clubs and countries, and signing contracts. If your problem is with buying and selling, take it to the football clubs and the entertainers, not me.

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No i do not think so or say so.

What then were you talking about?

i would not say 'wrong' in the context that you think, i would rather use the word "inappropriate". While it may not be wrong for me to somersault or be in my undies, it is inappropriate for me to somersault in the streets or in the banking hall. It is inappropriate for me to go to work in my undies, or attend a board meeting or a function that way. God has designated functions for everybody and there is some form of order in religious activity and worship. Women can do many things like teach fellow women, youths and children(who by the way usually make up more than 60% of a church gathering), they can do many other important activities like prayer, worship, singing, evangelism, writing books etc. It is an administrative policy thing, the women do not take up the work of the teacher or chief leader in CHURCH. It's a simple organisational structure. In some organisations, there are criteria, competencies, essential and desireable skills for each position. We don't call that discrimination or victimization. It's simply company policy or HR admin stuff. Teaching or heading a church are not as important as prayer, evangelism, having faith, living a powerful christian testimony for the world etc.

Why should women not teach men in church? What's wrong with that?

Is it a current thing? i ask because of proper context. God/the Bible was the first to abrogate slavery centuries before civilizations started considering it. The new Testament is very clear, that there is no jew or gentile or bond or free in Christ. No christian can purchase any foreigner because we are all one, and the blood of Jesus Christ has broken such middle wall of partition. So, no point asking Is this a good thing to do? It IS not even done. In fact, what we see today is entertainment and sports BUYING and SELLING people to different clubs and countries, and signing contracts. If your problem is with buying and selling, take it to the football clubs and the entertainers, not me.

No where in the bible was slavery abrogated.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Here we have the bible telling slaves to obey their earthly masters. No injunction was given to people telling them that slavery is wrong and should not be practiced no matter what.

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Wow, i postponed replying this and almost forgot that i had not replied. You're funny you know? The earth belongs to God and He cannot be jealous of someone else using His stuff. The Canaanites did not own the land but God. God called Abraham(the father of the Jews) from Ur of the Chaldees and took him to a place(Canaan) that God promised him that his children/descendants will inherit. God drove the seven nations of Canaan out just like any landlord can drive out his tenant and put who he wants. Read Genesis 12v1-7.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Humans do not act like that, when you try to humanize God he always all short. As a landlord I can not just come and drive out my tenants without proper reason. Notice must be given and contract must expire among other things. I disagree that God created the land because I believe in no God. What i the other people claim that it is their own God that created the land? I don't wanna go down that route but the bottom line is good humans do not act the way the God of the bible acts, a good you claim is all good.

Yes of course. God was sorry as He is not sadistic in punishing people. He is not happy to see anyone perish. It is not pleasant for people to be captives, or to suffer loss or hunger or deprivation. These are some of the punishments meted on the Israelites. Are they right to you? Is captivity, hunger, deprivation right to you? You seem to have a problem to think that God sees them as wrong, so are they right?
Punishment is not fun, but it is a necessary part of any society. Humans are governed by laws. Every normal city has laws, and law enforcement agencies, courts, offices and prisons. This is an essential part of a good place to live. i have told you several times that goodness is not a subset of good deeds, good is God's nature. If you want to see a list of God's goodness, read the Bible. i will mention three to help you. God provided food, water and light for the Israelites in the wilderness. God forgave sinners all their sins. God healed many sick people in the Bible. Those are three good deeds, happy now? What is a good kind of punishment, mention examples you would have employed in the cases you referred to.

God also killed many people in the bible, God sent a bear to tear down kids because they mocked his prophet, God encouraged the Jews to tell lies and steal from Egyptians, God told people to carry out rape and genocide, God killed babies for the alleged wrong doing of their parents. Are these good deeds? Punishing a child for the wrong doing of his parents is wrong. The child is simply innocent.

dalaman:


Humans do not act like that, when you try to humanize God he always all short. As a landlord I can not just come and drive out my tenants without proper reason. Notice must be given and contract must expire among other things. I disagree that God created the land because I believe in no God. What i the other people claim that it is their own God that created the land? I don't wanna go down that route but the bottom line is good humans do not act the way the God of the bible acts, a good you claim is all good.

"any landlord can drive out his tenant and put who he wants", that is a fact. If you do not like your tenant for one reason or the other, you get him out and put in another that you think better. What is proper reason for removing a tenant? Many landlords simply say they want to use the place, or they inflate the rent money. What rubbish are you saying that humans don't act like that? God's reason was stated and well implied. The Canaanites were full of iniquity and God judged them and put in new people. He didn't just come, He waited for CENTURIES till their cup of iniquity was full. Their contract expired the first time they sinned, the wages of sin is death remember. Leaving them for centuries is merciful and a chance and possibility for repentance.
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
1Ki 21:26 And he did very abominably in following idols, according to all things as did the Amorites, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel.

Of course, you will ironically disagree that God created the land, but agree to what you perceive as evil that the Bible records God doing.

God also killed many people in the bible, God sent a bear to tear down kids because they mocked his prophet, God encouraged the Jews to tell lies and steal from Egyptians, God told people to carry out rape and genocide, God killed babies for the alleged wrong doing of their parents. Are these good deeds? Punishing a child for the wrong doing of his parents is wrong. The child is simply innocent.

Is captivity, hunger, deprivation right to you? You seem to have a problem to think that God sees them as wrong, so are they right? You did not answer that? What is a good kind of punishment, mention examples you would have employed in the cases you referred to. You did not answer that?
i told you specifically and several times that being good is not primarily a function of good deeds. On this same thread, i recall asking at different times if Stalin will be a good person because of good deeds, you all dodged it. See here, here and here. This is the chief reason i have been stressing that good deeds alone do not make anyone good. i just showed you some of God's innumerable good deeds but you skipped them and are asking me about other things. Indirectly, you are saying what i have been saying since the start of thread; there is no human good. While you can reel out the good deeds of your neighbour or friend, i may also be privy to his bad deeds that you do not know. And all humans have them, for all have sinned and come short of God's glory. Being good is not primarily in the doing, it is a quality or nature called holiness. It is unattainable by human strength or good deeds. This is exemplified by the life of Jesus Christ who was declared a beloved Son in whom God was well pleased, right before He even did any of His numerous recorded and popular good deeds. He didn't get good or pleasing to God primarily by going about doing good, or healing the sick, or feeding the poor, or preaching, or sacrificial giving of His life. He was good because of the nature of God in Him, and of course that nature makes one do good deeds.

dalaman:


What then were you talking about?

It was very clear what i talked about and you agreed to it. i said MEN ARE DIFFERENT FROM WOMEN. You added and was asking if men are BETTER THAN women. i didn't say so or think so.

Why should women not teach men in church? What's wrong with that?

i was very clear to say and explain that the better word or context to use is the word "inappropriate", not "wrong". It is inappropriate for women to teach/instruct/have authority over men in church. That is God's policy as it is God's building and organisation. Anyone who has a problem with that can go some place else. Every leader, organisation, company, important structure has policies. From recruitment policies to parking/garage laws, to smoking areas, to opening and closing time, to length of service and retirement etc.

No where in the bible was slavery abrogated.

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)

Here we have the bible telling slaves to obey their earthly masters. No injunction was given to people telling them that slavery is wrong and should not be practiced no matter what.

The word translated as "slaves" in the passage you quoted is the greek word "doulos". That word doulos is very loosely used in greek(or at least in this sphere in the Bible), to refer to any subordinate, worker or servant. So, we all are doulos of somebody or something. Any worker or staff of an organisation can be referred to as a doulos to the boss or employer or superior. doulos is not limited to the context of slavery that you intend to talk about. Slavery you talk of has to do more of being in BONDS/bondage. Pretty much everybody in the Bible is referred to or refers to himself as "doulos". Below are some verses the same word is used.
Phi 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

All the bolded "servant" are the same greek word doulos you quoted. They all show Jesus, Paul, the disciples of Jesus, and pretty much every man of God or servant of God being referred to in the same way. i want to believe that is not the slavery you are talking about. In th Old Testament, it is the same thing. Abraham, Jacob, his sons, Moses etc all being referred to as servants or in another translation slaves. i stand by what i have said, that the Bible does not encourage owning others in bondage, or maltreating others in the New Testament. It is impossible because in the New Testament, there is no Jew or Gentile, or bond or free. In the OT, it may be argued somehow that non-jews were held as 'slaves', but it cannot happen in a New Testament state. The middle wall of partition was broken on the cross, and no jew or christian can hold any gentile as 'slave'. Unfortunately, you are not touching on the real issue but on sentimental name or perception. The real issue is not about being called a slave or free, but about the treatment to fellow human beings. Someone might not be called a slave but is being treated worse than a slave, this is wrong. Some slaves in the Bible fared better than some manager and supervisor or contractors in some factories today. Someone is working 24hours, 12 hours everyday under terrible safety conditions, shameful salary, and even the salary, they owe them for months. But we say he is supervisor, contractor, today, Nigeria, here. Is that one not worse than slavery? And some of them work in these conditions for years, 25years, 15years etc. Some have no job at all, no access to the basic necessities of life. And we are jumping up and down and celebrating that there is no slavery, there is independence. What sort of independence is that? What the Bible asks, of masters and of servants is the most noble of all law in the human race ever practiced.