tevinsolt:


Fallacy is a mistaken belief, I have my reasons why I don't care about the other gods you're systemically trying to impose on me simply because I'm a theist. if anything you're the one mistaken here.
we are not imperfect because God made us so, rather we are because of the fall in the garden of Eden, but obviously you don't know this because you've not done your homework.

My friend stop trying to force yourself to reply even when you don't know what to say. Why are you choosing to play with word you don't even know the meaning?

What do you mean by we are not 'imperfect'? Is this a word game?

If your God creates us perfect in the first place why then did we fall?

My homework? Again what you mean by my homework is that I go read one religious book out of the many religious books out there.

So if a Muslim accuses me, just like you are doing, that I didn't do my homework because I didn't read the Koran what do you expect me to tell him?

Image123:


Does He say so?

U dont even read the bible.

Commandment to wipe out whole races Deuteronomy 7:1-2

WHEN THE Lord your God brings you into the land which you are entering to possess and has plucked away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you,
2And when the Lord your God gives them over to you and you smite them, then you must utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them, or show mercy to them.

They are countless examples in the bible ; The story of noah being the worst (Tho it was copied from the sumerian flood fables)
Sodom and gomorah...
God charges saul to wipe out the amelekites and live none alive... so many of them

tevinsolt:


you seriously don't get it. I can't change your mind but..
I easily can make this more difficult for you by asking you to account for how matter went from being purely physical to metaphysical having emotions, empathy and all
and pls do me a favor by answering these questions
where did empathy come from (and pls don't say evolution)
where did the Concept of Justice came from?
why do we feel the need to avenge wrong doings? don't you think revenging a dead person is selfish and arrogant to think killing is wrong? or that by taking revenge you impose your moral view on the person who committed the murder? not only that, you have buy into the murderers idea of morality to make him "pay" for taking the life of one of your own, in which is people might also retaliate.

in a morally subjective world conflict would be the order of the day, in our world reality is there are absolute morals that cut across every culture. these morals stands regardless personal bias.

Seriously dude all your questions above are so very deceptive...
You seem to want to separate empathy from humans..

I wont address of any of it cus it will bring about more senseless questions and keeps going... if you dont know anything else to reply the guy then free the case dont resort to asking baseless questions that doesnt even make sense..

Image123:


Why do you think no human is perfect? Where is your proof? People can be good and do good deeds, that i am consistently saying. But no one is good in the context of religion and of the OP. That people do good deeds does not mean that they are good. BTW, are you good? There are criminals that do good deeds, there are people that are good at home or to their families and friends, but evil at other places. While their families and friends may think them good, the overall shows they are not good.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Why do I think no one is perfect? What a question. Mr image.... Is any human perfect? Look I am not here to answer silly questions.

Listen, if someone does good, he is good. If someone does bad he is bad. What does the above mean? If john does good in his house and does bad in market...,he is good at home and bad at the market.

No human is perfectly good or even perfectly bad. Why? Because we are human and sometimes have to make selfish decisions that might hurt others. Yet some people are gooder (permit me to use the word) than others. Some people are known to be good majority of times than bad, this does not make them perfect. But it makes the good.

Goodness is a human concept and not ur bible's or ur religion's. You religion is only trying to confuse it. We don't have perfect Christians just good Christians. We also have bad Christians. No Christian is perfect. If you like quote the whole Bible, reality is reality. Since you have been reading your bible what has it done to you? Are you better than me? You are still struggling with ur emotions as to when to do good or not. Do you really love ur neighbour as urself? Who are we deceiving.

If you make a decision that benefits another and does not show selfishness. You are said to be good. Believing is a Jewish God does not make one good, rather its ones good deed that makes him good.

frank317:


Why do I think no one is perfect? What a question. Mr image.... Is any human perfect? Look I am not here to answer silly questions.

Listen, if someone does good, he is good. If someone does bad he is bad. What does the above mean? If john does good in his house and does bad in market...,he is good at home and bad at the market.

No human is perfectly good or even perfectly bad. Why? Because we are human and sometimes have to make selfish decisions that might hurt others. Yet some people are gooder (permit me to use the word) than others. Some people are known to be good majority of times than bad, this does not make them perfect. But it makes the good.

Goodness is a human concept and not ur bible's or ur religion's. You religion is only trying to confuse it. We don't have perfect Christians just good Christians. We also have bad Christians. No Christian is perfect. If you like quote the whole Bible, reality is reality. Since you have been reading your bible what has it done to you? Are you better than me? You are still struggling with ur emotions as to when to do good or not. Do you really love ur neighbour as urself? Who are we deceiving.

If you make a decision that benefits another and does not show selfishness. You are said to be good. Believing is a Jewish God does not make one good, rather its ones good deed that makes him good.

Frank i honestly see no need for you to continue replying the guy... Everyone have made their point clear... and thats all

Image123:


Why do you think humans cannot be perfect? You forgot to answer that. God is good because He is the definition of good, it is like asking why the letter A is 'A'. God is good and anything ungodly is not good. It is now apart from that NATURE of God that we can look at the deeds of God and still say He is good, everything that good is is in God and approved by God. So, when we say God is good, it is His nature and character, and then His deeds. Can God's goodness be tested, i suppose so. What are the parameters you use to test good? God is the definition and standard of what good is. He is the plumb rule as it were, we measure everything against Him as it were. To be good is to be what God wants you to be, to be suitable to God.

See you... How is ur God good? All you reply is my God good because he good.

What make ur God good? What has he done that makes him good? Tell one thing he did that shows he is good.

Is he good by sitting down in a golden chair in the sky and watching humans suffer for their own mistakes? If you are a father would you be a good father if you allow ur son suffer terribly because he made mistakes? He watches the devil he created torment and deceive his loving creations year after year and you say he is good?

Remind me exactly why you say your God is good. Tell me just one good deed he did.

frank317:


See you... How is ur God good? All you reply is my God good because he good.

What make ur God good? What has he done that makes him good? Tell one thing he did that shows he is good.

Is he good by sitting down in a golden chair in the sky and watching humans suffer for their own mistakes? If you are a father would you be a good father if you allow ur son suffer terribly because he made mistakes? He watches the devil he created torment and deceive his loving creations year after year and you say he is good?

Remind me exactly why you say your God is good. Tell me just one good deed he did.

for every good deed he mentions, i will mention five bad deeds.

Image123:


Why do you think humans cannot be perfect? You forgot to answer that. From the dictionary,
- To be perfect is to be without fault or without error. The real question is before who, as beauty is largely in the eye of the beholder. A man may look at an incidence or an act by his wife/child and see no fault in it, while someone else might look at the same act and be unhappy with it. In the sight of God, one can be without fault or error, made clean by the blood of the Lamb.
- To be perfect is to be complete and whole, and believers are complete in Christ.
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to naught:
- To be perfect is to be excellent or ideal. The ideal thing needed to please God is faith, so faith puts you in line for perfection before God. You please God by faith.
- To be perfect is to be especially suitable or exact. When you do what exactly is required by God or suitable to God, you are perfect.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Your deed does not make you good, it simply remains a good deed. For instance, respecting your parents is a good thing/deed. Is Idi Amin(or whoever you think as evil) good because he respects his parents, despite his despotism?

No man can be perfect if you like have bible as your breakfast dinner and lunch, when the time for decision making reaches, u will drop it and consider how ur choice will favour u or not.

All these ones na long story. I have never seen a perfect Christian. I have never seen a Christian that I can confidently say is much gooder(again permit me to use this word) than all Muslims I know.

What is ur God still waiting for to make them good? You think you can just quote the bible and everyone joins u in ur confusion and delusion?

frank317:


My friend stop trying to force yourself to reply even when you don't know what to say. Why are you choosing to play with word you don't even know the meaning?

What do you mean by we are not 'imperfect'? Is this a word game?

If your God creates us perfect in the first place why then did we fall?

My homework? Again what you mean by my homework is that I go read one religious book out of the many religious books out there.

So if a Muslim accuses me, just like you are doing, that I didn't do my homework because I didn't read the Koran what do you expect me to tell him?

my apologies, I meant so say we are not prefect not because God made us imperfect but because of our choices.
fall came when man used his free will in disobeying God, this lead to the separation between God and man. universe is made of destructible matter,and 2nd law of thermodynamics states that everything moves towards chaos, our body breaks down as we age, natural disasters and the biggest of all is the projected fate of our solar system. Bible says Heaven and earth shall pass away but God's word is ever intact.
If you feel you need to read every book to know the truth, then by all means, I've done my own research and my findings all point to a creator.

johnydon22:


Seriously dude all your questions above are so very deceptive...
You seem to want to separate empathy from humans..

I wont address of any of it cus it will bring about more senseless questions and keeps going... if you dont know anything else to reply the guy then free the case dont resort to asking baseless questions that doesnt even make sense..

great way to respond to a question, call it deceptive and move on.
it is a simple philosophical question. can you explain how empathy came about, if yes explain, if no admit you don't know, admit that your thoughts have not gone this far.
both of you guys do not have the slightest philosophical knowledge in this little things you try to attribute to evolution without any support and think you have made a point. A simple premise surrounding relative morality I couldn't get across to you guys.

tevinsolt:


great way to respond to a question, call it deceptive and move on.
it is a simple philosophical question. can you explain how empathy came about, if yes explain, if no admit you don't know, admit that your thoughts have not gone this far.
both of you guys do not have the slightest philosophical knowledge in this little things you try to attribute to evolution without any support and think you have made a point. A simple premise surrounding relative morality I couldn't get across to you guys.

Isnt this what they have been trying to make you see since?

Our empathy comes from our humanity Where else would you want it to come from... i have mentioned it like a thousand times in this thread but somehow you all just feel the need to re-ask an unnecessary question...

I really do not need to argue any more over this..
..Am done...

frank317:


You didn't even reply to my post my good friend. Do you really want me to believe in all the hogwash I outlined above?

I want you to open your eyes and stop believing in myths. At least if you must believe in one you try some African myth and discard this Jewish childish tale you take seriously.

How long will you continue to deceive yourself?
How long will you be in denial?
When will you face reality?

tevinsolt:


you seriously don't get it. I can't change your mind but..
I easily can make this more difficult for you by asking you to account for how matter went from being purely physical to metaphysical having emotions, empathy and all
and pls do me a favor by answering these questions

I am not making this point at all. My point is that morality is a human creation and that remains a fact. People create moral systems to enable them enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. People also created Gods and religions to justify authorities. All these things are man made ideas and creations. That is my point.

where did empathy come from (and pls don't say evolution)

I don't know how humans came about, but I do know that we have a brain that allows us to be empathetic towards others.

where did the Concept of Justice came from?

People created the justice system so that they can be enable to enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. Without justice non of this can be attained because the society will be in disarray.

why do we feel the need to avenge wrong doings? don't you think revenging a dead person is selfish and arrogant to think killing is wrong? or that by taking revenge you impose your moral view on the person who committed the murder? not only that, you have buy into the murderers idea of morality to make him "pay" for taking the life of one of your own, in which is people might also retaliate.

We need to avenge the killing of others so that the killer will know that he too can not get away with taking the life of others.

in a morally subjective world conflict would be the order of the day, in our world reality is there are absolute morals that cut across every culture. these morals stands regardless personal bias.

We live in a world were our morality has evolved so much that things are now better. Conflict actually used to be the other of the day. During the time of the bible slavery was accepted, genocide was the order of the day, land grab was acceptable. The Romans invaded Israel and took over their lands during the time of Jesus. Israel was under occupation then. The Jews were praying for a Messiah to come and save them from the Romans. Stronger countries were going around grabbing lands and territories unopposed. There was chaos. Over time people learned that slavery was wrong, land grab was wrong, they formed charters and ended it. No God or religion was used to end these things. No God was used when the international criminal court was established. Reason was what was used to establish it. If Joshua or Moses of the bible were alive today the would have been sent to the international court of justice and tried as a war criminals. Morality is what humans have thought themselves over the years. The bible and Koran says that gays should be killed. Now societies have used reason to show that there is nothing wrong with being gay. God has nothing to do with morality, it is a human creation that is why it varies from society to society. People learn and teach each other moral principles through the use of reason.

dalaman:


I am not making this point at all. My point is that morality is a human creation and that remains a fact. People create moral systems to enable them enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. People also created Gods and religions to justify authorities. All these things are man made ideas and creations. That is my point.



I don't know how humans came about, but I do know that we have a brain that allows us to be empathetic towards others.



People created the justice system so that they can be enable to enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. Without justice non of this can be attained because the society will be in disarray.



We need to avenge the killing of others so that the killer will know that he too can not get away with taking the life of others.



We live in a world were our morality has evolved so much that things are now better. Conflict actually used to be the other of the day. During the time of the bible slavery was accepted, genocide was the order of the day, land grab was acceptable. The Romans invaded Israel and took over their lands during the time of Jesus. Israel was under occupation then. The Jews were praying for a Messiah to come and save them from the Romans. Stronger countries were going around grabbing lands and territories unopposed. There was chaos. Over time people learned that slavery was wrong, land grab was wrong, they formed charters and ended it. No God or religion was used to end these things. No God was used when the international criminal court was established. Reason was what was used to establish it. If Joshua or Moses of the bible were alive today the would have been sent to the international court of justice and tried as a war criminals. Morality is what humans have thought themselves over the years. The bible and Koran says that gays should be killed. Now societies have used reason to show that there is nothing wrong with being gay. God has nothing to do with morality, it is a human creation that is why it varies from society to society. People learn and teach each other moral principles through the use of reason.

He just wouldn't get it .... be ready for another stu..pid question.

johnydon22:


He just wouldn't get it .... be ready for another stu..pid question.

Religious people have gotten away with so much lies over the years. Non of them have been able to show us how God on his own created morality. We on the other hand have shown them how morality is a human creation, how it has evolved over the years and why it will continue to evolve as we learn knew things and adjust our way of life as human beings.

dalaman:


Religious people have gotten away with so much lies over the years. Non of them have been able to show us how God on his own created morality. We on the other hand have shown them how morality is a human creation, how it has evolved over the years and why it will continue to evolve as we learn knew things and adjust our way of life as human beings.

Am still wondering how such beings (ideas) can create morality when those ideas are not even moral...

Hiswordxray:

How long will you continue to deceive yourself?
How long will you be in denial?
When will you face reality?

Lol... How long will you continue fooling yourself?
How long will you continue in your delusion?
When will you stop believing in fairy tales and face reality.

Like I asked ... Do you seriously want me to believe in the childish tale outlined in the bible?

frank317:


Lol... How long will you continue fooling yourself?
How long will you continue in your delusion?
When will you stop believing in fairy tales and face reality.

Like I asked ... Do you seriously want me to believe in the childish tale outlined in the bible?

I want you to believe in what you hunger for.
Christ us who your soul cry out for.

Hiswordxray:

I want you to believe in what you hunger for.
Christ us who your soul cry out for.

Who is Christ? The God that allowed himself to be born after he slept with Mary so that he could be killed as a sacrifice to himself?

I will ask you again... Is this the bullcrap you want me to believe? Seriously?

dalaman:


I am not making this point at all. My point is that morality is a human creation and that remains a fact. People create moral systems to enable them enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. People also created Gods and religions to justify authorities. All these things are man made ideas and creations. That is my point.



I don't know how humans came about, but I do know that we have a brain that allows us to be empathetic towards others.



People created the justice system so that they can be enable to enjoy the safety and well being of their various societies. Without justice non of this can be attained because the society will be in disarray.



We need to avenge the killing of others so that the killer will know that he too can not get away with taking the life of others.



We live in a world were our morality has evolved so much that things are now better. Conflict actually used to be the other of the day. During the time of the bible slavery was accepted, genocide was the order of the day, land grab was acceptable. The Romans invaded Israel and took over their lands during the time of Jesus. Israel was under occupation then. The Jews were praying for a Messiah to come and save them from the Romans. Stronger countries were going around grabbing lands and territories unopposed. There was chaos. Over time people learned that slavery was wrong, land grab was wrong, they formed charters and ended it. No God or religion was used to end these things. No God was used when the international criminal court was established. Reason was what was used to establish it. If Joshua or Moses of the bible were alive today the would have been sent to the international court of justice and tried as a war criminals. Morality is what humans have thought themselves over the years. The bible and Koran says that gays should be killed. Now societies have used reason to show that there is nothing wrong with being gay. God has nothing to do with morality, it is a human creation that is why it varies from society to society. People learn and teach each other moral principles through the use of reason.

I'm tired of going over the same thing, I'll have to agree to disagree, but you need to look into philosophy, might help you see the flaw in your argument.

tevinsolt:


I'm tired of going over the same thing, I'll have to agree to disagree, but you need to look into philosophy, might help you see the flaw in your argument.

There is no flaw in my argument. My position simply states that morality is a human construct. It has nothing to do with God. We can use only Christians as an example. Many Christians the world over disagree and are in constant disagreement with each other on what moral laws or principles to uphold despite believing in one God. If morality stems from God then why the constant disagreement even among Christians?

dalaman:


There is no flaw in my argument. My position simply states that morality is a human construct. It has nothing to do with God. We can use only Christians as an example. Many Christians the world over disagree and are in constant disagreement with each other on what moral laws or principles to uphold despite believing in one God. If morality stems from God then why the constant disagreement even among Christians?

just know the opposite what you believe is wrong is equally right if it subjective.

tevinsolt:


just know the opposite what you believe is wrong is equally right if it subjective.

Why?

Do you really know what empathy is?

If I slap you or steal your last cash do you need the bible to feel the pain?

Or would you need your God to know how another would feel if same happens to him?

If based on this, a given society decides to make law against slapping someone or stealing from another, wouldn't that be understandable?

What exactly is ur point?

tevinsolt:


just know the opposite what you believe is wrong is equally right if it subjective.

The fact that all moral principles come about differently is evidence that they are man made. Even if morality is objective it still remains a human construct. Humans can invent a set of moral values in common with other human beings like us, with the objective perspective being derived from human beings. Once they do that they can teach each other and learn to adhere to it.

johnydon22:


U dont even read the bible.

Commandment to wipe out whole races Deuteronomy 7:1-2

WHEN THE Lord your God brings you into the land which you are entering to possess and has plucked away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than you,
2And when the Lord your God gives them over to you and you smite them, then you must utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them, or show mercy to them.

They are countless examples in the bible ; The story of noah being the worst (Tho it was copied from the sumerian flood fables)
Sodom and gomorah...
God charges saul to wipe out the amelekites and live none alive... so many of them

Your ignorance is appalling. dalaman asked "So if God says killing of those that do not worship him is good then it becomes good right?" God never said or SAYS killing of those that do not worship him is good. The three instances you ignorantly gave were not due to them not worshipping Him, get your facts right or show how.

frank317:


Why do I think no one is perfect? What a question. Mr image.... Is any human perfect? Look I am not here to answer silly questions.

Listen, if someone does good, he is good. If someone does bad he is bad. What does the above mean? If john does good in his house and does bad in market...,he is good at home and bad at the market.

If a christian gave you this sort of reply now, you would almost go wild. you seem to have no reason or logic why you think no one is perfect. Don't just tell me stuff and expect me to take your words for it, or are you God? You complain when i just tell you stuff and expect you to take my word for it. If i say God is good because He is good, are you satisfied? Why should i be satisfied when you say "if someone does good, he is good. If someone does bad he is bad". On what premise or basis do you conclude that? On your 'john analogy', do you use that for God also? Is God good in His house? Because when christians talk about God being good and they talk about His deeds and His wondrous works, you and your type do not say God is good at home. Are you being partial/selective?

No human is perfectly good or even perfectly bad. Why? Because we are human and sometimes have to make selfish decisions that might hurt others. Yet some people are gooder (permit me to use the word) than others. Some people are known to be good majority of times than bad, this does not make them perfect. But it makes the good.

i am perfect, deal with that. What is your definition of perfect, i described to you how one can be perfect using the english dictionary and the God standard.There is nothing you do that will not hurt others, no matter how good or perfect. Perfection and goodness is not tied to the reaction or feeling of others. Some people are hurt and jealous when good things happen, do we avoid good things happening so as not to hurt them?

Goodness is a human concept and not ur bible's or ur religion's. You religion is only trying to confuse it. We don't have perfect Christians just good Christians. We also have bad Christians. No Christian is perfect. If you like quote the whole Bible, reality is reality. Since you have been reading your bible what has it done to you? Are you better than me? You are still struggling with ur emotions as to when to do good or not. Do you really love ur neighbour as urself? Who are we deceiving.

If you make a decision that benefits another and does not show selfishness. You are said to be good. Believing is a Jewish God does not make one good, rather its ones good deed that makes him good.

Goodness is not a human concept, goodness has been long before humans. Or are you saying nothing was good or evil before humans came? You do not define religion, you do not even know what it is. the people that know say some people are perfect. God says to be perfect, Jesy Christ says to be perfect. Who are you again?
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to naught:
2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

If you like deny the whole Bible, God is real, christianity is real, i am real. Your unbelief does not stop the work of God. i don't struggle with my emotions as to when to do good or not, it is a lifestyle. i lovemy neighbour as myself. Repetition does not make what you are saying right, i cannot believe you blindly. Prove what you are saying, is that not the stance of the unbeliever? Practice what you preach, as it were.

Image123:


Your ignorance is appalling. dalaman asked "So if God says killing of those that do not worship him is good then it becomes good right?" God never said or SAYS killing of those that do not worship him is good. The three instances you ignorantly gave were not due to them not worshipping Him, get your facts right or show how.

Now he wants me to post more..

exodus 22:20 Kill all those who worships others gods except the lord

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than
your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that
worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your
own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed
in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him.
Jude 5

talk about barbarism...

frank317:


See you... How is ur God good? All you reply is my God good because he good.

What make ur God good? What has he done that makes him good? Tell one thing he did that shows he is good.

Is he good by sitting down in a golden chair in the sky and watching humans suffer for their own mistakes? If you are a father would you be a good father if you allow ur son suffer terribly because he made mistakes? He watches the devil he created torment and deceive his loving creations year after year and you say he is good?

Remind me exactly why you say your God is good. Tell me just one good deed he did.

i explained to you that it is like asking why the letter A is 'A'. That is the standard, the base, the definition. i was asking someone what a meter is. i got literally played around like a ball. Why, because a meter is the measure itself. So, i was told a meter is approximately YYYyard. And you know i asked what is a yard, and i was told a yard is XYZinches, and you know i asked what is a inch, and i was told an inch is ABCfeet. Then the feet definition brought us back to DEFmeter. i do hope you did not lose the point. Good is not measured by deeds, it is what God is, what God says, what God stands for. God is the definition of good. If you want to know what good is, look for what God says good is. It is good to be godly, it is good to be kind, it is good to give thanks, it is good to serve God, it is good to be diligent, it is good to pray, it is good to love God etc. Deeds are not the primary things that make one good, deeds can be good however. A murderer is not good because he gave alms to the poor. A thief is not good because he helped his sick friend to the hospital. Their good deeds did not make them good, did they? If however you still insist on knowing some of God's good deeds, i will reel them out for you, no qualms. But the point you miss is that good deeds are not primarily what makes you good.

johnydon22:


Now he wants me to post more..

exodus 22:20 Kill all those who worships others gods except the lord

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than
your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that
worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your
own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed
in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him.
Jude 5

talk about barbarism...

Do not revel in ignorance. Either you have deliberately lost the context or you never got the context of what i was saying. i earlier explained already punishment for people based on agreement to be different from morality or moral standards. The Israelites or jews never achieved morality or being good by killing anybody for any reason. They did not kill or punish their neighbouring countries for not worshipping God. This was the original context in which it was presented when someone tried to compare to isis and boko haram. Christians and jews are not and were not told to kill others that are not of their religion, neither do they do it to become righteous or attain goodness or get to heaven. All that you quoted(that applies) are punishments for their fellow jews who were under the same covenant/agreement. Every jew had an agreement/old testament/old covenant that they were bound to, and they had their prescribed punishments for defaulting. They were circumcised, they were to offer some particular sacrifices, go to a particular place, learn the torah, keep the commandments etc. These were all under their agreements which they had signed into LAW. It was their law. They did not go and attack egyptians or philistines or babylonians. In most cases, they stayed far away from mingling with them. Get your perspective right and do not derail needlessly.

frank317:


No man can be perfect if you like have bible as your breakfast dinner and lunch, when the time for decision making reaches, u will drop it and consider how ur choice will favour u or not.

All these ones na long story. I have never seen a perfect Christian. I have never seen a Christian that I can confidently say is much gooder(again permit me to use this word) than all Muslims I know.

What is ur God still waiting for to make them good? You think you can just quote the bible and everyone joins u in ur confusion and delusion?

Why do you think humans cannot be perfect? Any reason? Should we just without reason harp continually that no one can be perfect? You lack exposure not to have seen a perfect christian. How many christians have you seen or known all your life?

Image123:

If a christian gave you this sort of reply now, you would almost go wild. you seem to have no reason or logic why you think no one is perfect. Don't just tell me stuff and expect me to take your words for it, or are you God? You complain when i just tell you stuff and expect you to take my word for it. If i say God is good because He is good, are you satisfied? Why should i be satisfied when you say "if someone does good, he is good. If someone does bad he is bad". On what premise or basis do you conclude that? On your 'john analogy', do you use that for God also? Is God good in His house? Because when christians talk about God being good and they talk about His deeds and His wondrous works, you and your type do not say God is good at home. Are you being partial/selective?

Duhh

-Someone who does good is good
-God is good because he good
Pls guy/guys which of this two statements makes more sense?

i am perfect, deal with that. What is your definition of perfect, i described to you how one can be perfect using the english dictionary and the God standard.There is nothing you do that will not hurt others, no matter how good or perfect. Perfection and goodness is not tied to the reaction or feeling of others. Some people are hurt and jealous when good things happen, do we avoid good things happening so as not to hurt them?

You are not perfect, stop lying to win an argument.

The reason why we can live without hurting others is because we are not perfect. We can be good but not perfect. Listen even if you do good you will know it like wise the person you did good to. If you do bad you will know it and the person you hurt will know too. Goodness is a human concept that we use to measure people's behaviours towards us.

Goodness is not a human concept, goodness has been long before humans. Or are you saying nothing was good or evil before humans came? You do not define religion, you do not even know what it is. the people that know say some people are perfect. God says to be perfect, Jesy Christ says to be perfect. Who are you again?
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to naught:
2Co 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Phi 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

If you like deny the whole Bible, God is real, christianity is real, i am real. Your unbelief does not stop the work of God. i don't struggle with my emotions as to when to do good or not, it is a lifestyle. i lovemy neighbour as myself. Repetition does not make what you are saying right, i cannot believe you blindly. Prove what you are saying, is that not the stance of the unbeliever? Practice what you preach, as it were.

Goodness is a human concept. What do you mean by 'long before there were humans? What do you know about the time when humans were not on earth? You guys go about talking like you know it all. Tell me what you know about the time before humans came. Stop delving into topics you know nothing about.

You can quote and requote all your fairy tale book... The fact remains that reality is reality and fairy tales are fairy tales.
Well, you can be good but you can never be perfect.

frank317:


Duhh

-Someone who does good is good
-God is good because he good
Pls guy/guys which of this two statements makes more sense?

Has morality reduced to an opinion poll? Why do you find it so hard and unreasonable to give reasons why you think no one is perfect? Why do you think that Someone who does good is good? Who determined(s) that? What is the criteria for saying that? is Stalin good if he gives alms to the poor? What is good, because to me God is good, marriage is good, prayer is good. To some other person, God is not good, prayer is a waste, marriage is not good or unnecessary. Who is right in the two of us? Is it opinion poll that will/shall determine? Even opinion polls change and fluctuate you know?

You are not perfect, stop lying to win an argument.

The reason why we can live without hurting others is because we are not perfect. We can be good but not perfect. Listen even if you do good you will know it like wise the person you did good to. If you do bad you will know it and the person you hurt will know too. Goodness is a human concept that we use to measure people's behaviours towards us.

i described to you how one can be perfect using the english dictionary and the God standard, you were speechless. Who or what is perfect? What is your standard or guage that makes you arrive at the conclusion that no one is perfect? i think it is good for me to preach the gospel to you and pray for you. i know it when i do it, would you? When religious extremists do what they do, THEY THINK THEY ARE DOING GOOD. They do not know that they are doing bad, neither do they even care.

Goodness is a human concept. What do you mean by 'long before there were humans? What do you know about the time when humans were not on earth? You guys go about talking like you know it all. Tell me what you know about the time before humans came. Stop delving into topics you know nothing about.

You can quote and requote all your fairy tale book... The fact remains that reality is reality and fairy tales are fairy tales.
Well, you can be good but you can never be perfect.

Goodness is not a human concept. The things that existed before humans were good and bad. There was good water, there was bad water, there were good fruits and trees, there were those spoilt and poisonous ones. There was good weather and bad weather etc. i am trying to stay within your ambit of processing. Does science not go about talking like they know it all? No one can be good without God.