Katsumoto:


Fiscally, Tinubu is a Capitalist; socially, he has no ideology or it isn't visible.

Lol. Yorubas aren't even naturally into capitalism lol.

SirShymexx:

But has OBJ ever had any political clout over the SW? I don't even rate the man - he looks like a coward to me, but a very cunning one loool.

OBJ is a very popular figure.
if he decides to recontest today, he would poll more votes than GEJ. i don't like OBJ at all but politically, he's a mammoth!

When did ACN displace PDP in the SW? I was alluding to that period. That was the peak of the party - it was on the decline before the APC merger.

I rate the Tinubu man but the way folks just threw Awo under the bus on this thread was just off-putting. How dare you do that to a man who sacrificed everything for the Yorubas? He gave Yorubas the structure and an ideology to build on. Gave them all kinds of first in everything and educated more than two generations for free. My pops will die for Awo - the man joined the Army at age 18 towards the end of the civil war to fight cos Awo told folks to join the army. But never ended up on the frontline. How many Yoruba folks would do that for Tinubu?

no one threw awo under the bus. as far as integrity goes, awo trumps tinubu about a billion times but that's just half of the story. no one would win in nigerian politics with awo's ideology - and for that simple fact, he's a bit behind jagban!

politics is a game - you have to be in it to win it. history is never kind to losers no matter how unique their idealism is. awo is a far better administrator than tinubu without any doubt but he's a lilliput in the politicking game.

Katsumoto:


Tinubu did put himself forward as VP but was talked out of it.

If Tinubu wanted to be VP, He would be. Only that the party would lose because he has more baggage that would drag down the party

Tinubu in 2007 gave his sure Senatorial seat away to placate Gani Solomon who felt shortchanged by his choice of Fashola over him

SirShymexx:

I rate the Tinubu man but the way folks just threw Awo under the bus on this thread was just off-putting. How dare you do that to a man who sacrificed everything for the Yorubas? He gave Yorubas the structure and an ideology to build on. Gave them all kinds of first in everything and educated more than two generations for free. My pops will die for Awo - the man joined the Army at age 18 towards the end of the civil war to fight cos Awo told folks to join the army. But never ended up on the frontline. How many Yoruba folks would do that for Tinubu?

Awo is a great man, He is the type of principled man that would stick to his guns forever. Thats something a lot of people would want to be known for but not the type of mentality for Politics

Go and watch Obama and Clinton rip into each other during the democratic primaries, Go see Joe Biden destroy Obama in 2007. But they are all allies now. Obama once said he doesnt support Gay marriage same with Romney, recently Obama said he "misspoke" how convenient. Awolowo would make his principles known and be ready to die by it
Politics is a game. You seek alliances and in most cases screw principles.

People would like a man of principle and ideology, but a man that can compromise would always win

When Awo died, even his enemies admitted he would have been a great President but while he was alive they never allowed him

coogar:


OBJ is a very popular figure.
if he decides to recontest today, he would poll more votes than GEJ. i don't like OBJ at all but politically, he's a mammoth!

no one threw awo under the bus. as far as integrity goes, awo trumps tinubu about a billion times but that's just half of the story. no one would win in nigerian politics with awo's ideology - and for that simple fact, he's a bit behind jagban!

politics is a game - you have to be in it to win it. history is never kind to losers no matter how unique their idealism is. awo is a far better administrator than tinubu without any doubt but he's a lilliput in the politicking game.

Lol. OBJ knows how to play his cards cos he is well connected inside/outside the country - and very cunning as well. But I don't see him as a mammoth - too unprincipled.

Tinubu built his house based on Awo's ideology - the foundation right there. And with this feat, he moved a step ahead - no matter how opportunistic it is.

But folks need to stop calling Awo's name in vain - without him, Yorubas won't be where they're today politically, economically, and in terms of education/enlightenment. They need to stop the madness.

It is like in rap - no matter how successful and rich both Nas and Jay Z are - there will always be one King of New York and Brooklyn. And that is the Big Poppa loool.

^^ Obj might not be loved in Yorubaland but all over Nigeria he had many loyalists and would have won again

raumdeuter:


Awo is a great man, He is the type of principled man that would stick to his guns forever. Thats something a lot of people would want to be known for but not the type of mentality for Politics

Go and watch Obama and Clinton rip into each other during the democratic primaries, Go see Joe Biden destroy Obama in 2007. But they are all allies now. Obama once said he doesnt support Gay marriage same with Romney, recently Obama said he "misspoke" how convenient.
Politics is a game. You seek alliances and in most cases screw principles.

People would like a man of principle and ideology, but a man that can compromise would always win

When Awo died, even his enemies admitted he would have been a great President but while he was alive they never allowed him

Lol. That was his style. He wasn't perfect but he did his thing and helped the Yoruba cause by putting them in a position to compete.

I think this debate is more like comparing George Washington to Abraham Lincoln. Let us let Tinubu enjoy his reign, and support him cos he won't be here forever. However, folks also need to stop calling Awo's name in vain. Two different people from two different eras who did what they believed in.

Also, we should all keep our fingers crossed on what Tinubu will get from the center for the Yorubas. Lagos is focal point now, and they have no excuse whatsoever about the FG delaying the implementation of certain projects.

SirShymexx:


Lol. OBJ knows how to play his cards cos he is well connected inside/outside the country - and very cunning as well. But I don't see him as a mammoth - too unprincipled.

Tinubu built his house based on Awo's ideology - the foundation right there. And with this feat, he moved a step ahead - no matter how opportunistic it is.

But folks need to stop calling Awo's name in vain - without him, Yorubas won't be where they're today politically, economically, and in terms of education/enlightenment. They need to stop the madness.

It is like in rap - no matter how successful and rich both Nas and Jay Z are - there will always be one King of New York and Brooklyn. And that is the Big Poppa loool.

On the bolded, we are in agreement.

On the positive influence Awo had on Yoruba people, you need to understand Yoruba history on the turn of the last century to just before independence. In Yorubaland, there were 2 areas on influence - Lagos because of the educated folk and Ibadan because of its 18th century military might. What Awo did was to uplift the other Yoruba areas socially, educationally, and economically. Do you know that Lagos people used to discriminate against other Yoruba? This is why Lagos and ibadan politicians were against him; Awo, in little under 10 years removed or reduced the gap between the Lagos Yoruba and other Yoruba. Suddenly, wealthy Yoruba were springing up in places like Ondo, Ilesha. Socially and economically, the Yoruba owe a lot to Awo. Not only were the Yoruba being uplifted in the SW but nationally the SW provided the administrative human capital for Nigeria.

SirShymexx:

Lol. OBJ knows how to play his cards cos he is well connected inside/outside the country - and very cunning as well. But I don't see him as a mammoth - too unprincipled.

Tinubu built his house based on Awo's ideology - the foundation right there. And with this feat, he moved a step ahead - no matter how opportunistic it is.

But folks need to stop calling Awo's name in vain - without him, Yorubas won't be where they're today politically, economically, and in terms of education/enlightenment. They need to stop the madness.

yeah, awo is a pioneer but his students have taken it further than he did. tinubu took a bit of him & akintola.

It is like in rap - no matter how successful and rich both Nas and Jay Z are - there will always be one King of New York and Brooklyn. And that is the Big Poppa loool.

yup!
big poppa would always be remembered as the king of new york. the unanymous support he got from the entire east coast after only one album is legendary.

Katsumoto:


On the bolded, we are in agreement.

On the positive influence Awo had on Yoruba people, you need to understand Yoruba history on the turn of the last century to just before independence. In Yorubaland, there were 2 areas on influence - Lagos because of the educated folk and Ibadan because of its 18th century military might. What Awo did was to uplift the other Yoruba areas socially, educationally, and economically. Do you know that Lagos people used to discriminate against other Yoruba? This is why Lagos and ibadan politicians were against him; Awo, in little under 10 years removed or reduced the gap between the Lagos Yoruba and other Yoruba. Suddenly, wealthy Yoruba were springing up in places like Ondo, Ilesha. Socially and economically, the Yoruba owe a lot to Awo. Not only were the Yoruba being uplifted in the SW but nationally the SW provided the administrative human capital for Nigeria.

The legend of Katsumoto, the mighty sword. Thanks for the heads up, I need to read more on that.

I just know that initially Lagos aligned with NCNC. But I believe AG was also big in Lagos cos my grandpops was into AG. And he did win a mayoral post in Lagos under UPN - he was close friends with the Jakande man, before he passed away.

coogar:

yeah, awo is a pioneer but his students have taken it further than he did. tinubu took a bit of him & akintola.

yup!
big poppa would always be remembered as the king of new york. the unanymous support he got from the entire east coast after only one album is legendary.

But that is what students are supposed to do, anyway. However, that doesn't negate the greatness of the grandmaster teacher. George Washington was the godfather of America - but Abraham Lincoln took it further with abolition of slavery, to make it all inclusive. However, you just have to leave the godfather on the Mt. Rushmore and it is not right to question his greatness.

Lol. That is how the game goes. Jigga did spread his tentacles everywhere, but there will always be one king. And that is the big poppa.

drkay:
Respect!

Maximum Respect.

SirShymexx:


The legend of Katsumoto, the mighty sword. Thanks for the heads up, I need to read more on that.

I just know that initially Lagos aligned with NCNC. But I believe AG was also big in Lagos cos my grandpops was into AG. And he did win a mayoral post in Lagos under UPN - he was close friends with the Jakande man, before he passed away.

NCNC was initially a Lagos Yoruba party before it was hijacked by Zik. By the time of the 2nd republic, NCNC had lost relevance and most Yoruba politicians had lined up behind Awo except for those who went for NPN (Akinloye, Akinjide, Abiola, Omoboriowo, Olunloyo) or NPP (Adeniran Ogunsanya).

coogar:


yeah, awo is a pioneer but his students have taken it further than he did. tinubu took a bit of him & akintola.

yup!
big poppa would always be remembered as the king of new york. the unanymous support he got from the entire east coast after only one album is legendary.

But what exactly did Tinubu learn from Awo? Many Yoruba politicians tend to mention Awo's name for political gain but we can't seem to identify his fiscal or social tenets in their actions.

Katsumoto:


NCNC was initially a Lagos Yoruba party before it was hijacked by Zik. By the time of the 2nd republic, NCNC had lost relevance and most Yoruba politicians had lined up behind Awo except for those who went for NPN (Akinloye, Akinjide, Abiola, Omoboriowo, Olunloyo) or NPP (Adeniran Ogunsanya).

I always write NPN as NPC - I think I made the same mistake earlier lol.

I know the Akinjide man and I believe he has a law chamber in London. That is another deceitful man, with horrible marks on his face. He and the OBJ man are the same in my book. I don't really know the rest.

Yes, I know Herbert Macaulay started NCNC before Zik hijacked it. Created a thread about that and the Yoriba renaissance in Lagos, during "Myth Busters" series.

SirShymexx:


I always write NPN as NPC - I think I made the same mistake earlier lol.

I know the Akinjide man and I believe he has a law chamber in London. That is another deceitful man, with horrible marks on his face. He and the OBJ man are the same in my book. I don't really know the rest.

Yes, I know Herbert Macaulay started NCNC before Zik hijacked it. Created a thread about that and the Yoriba renaissance in Lagos, during "Myth Busters" series.

Akinjide and OBJ aren't really the same in any way. I wouldn't even label Akinjide as deceitful; he was just a sell-out. He famously provided the mathematical interpretation that was used to deny Awo the 1979 election.

Katsumoto:

But what exactly did Tinubu learn from Awo? Many Yoruba politicians tend to mention Awo's name for political gain but we can't seem to identify his fiscal or social tenets in their actions.

he's learnt everything from him.
tinubu even dresses like him these days. the cap, the round lens of his glasses & his 2 finger salute.

tinubu is now the leader of the yoruba folks as far as politics is concerned. this seat has been vacant since the demise of abraham adesanya.

what's not to like about tinubu?

Katsumoto:


NCNC was initially a Lagos Yoruba party before it was hijacked by Zik. By the time of the 2nd republic, NCNC had lost relevance and most Yoruba politicians had lined up behind Awo except for those who went for NPN (Akinloye, Akinjide, Abiola, Omoboriowo, Olunloyo) or NPP (Adeniran Ogunsanya).

That's half the story and quite late in the day. Once AG was weakened by Akintola's NNDP, Yoruba politics was not the same. Remnants of AG went on to align with Awo under UPN while almost all of NNDP supporters aligned with NPN. The same folks almost all went on to join the PDP while all Awo loyalists were the core founders of AD before OBJ hijacked and decimated it. For the first time in a very long time, Eastern and Western Yoruba leaders of clout are working together. The last time that happened was briefly during IBB's option A4 when SDP and NRC were formed.

Katsumoto:

On the bolded, we are in agreement.
On the positive influence Awo had on Yoruba people, you need to understand Yoruba history on the turn of the last century to just before independence. In Yorubaland, there were 2 areas on influence - Lagos because of the educated folk and Ibadan because of its 18th century military might. What Awo did was to uplift the other Yoruba areas socially, educationally, and economically. Do you know that Lagos people used to discriminate against other Yoruba? This is why Lagos and ibadan politicians were against him; Awo, in little under 10 years removed or reduced the gap between the Lagos Yoruba and other Yoruba. Suddenly, wealthy Yoruba were springing up in places like Ondo, Ilesha. Socially and economically, the Yoruba owe a lot to Awo. Not only were the Yoruba being uplifted in the SW but nationally the SW provided the administrative human capital for Nigeria.

Katz baby, that's not the full story o, long before that, regional leaders were springing up everywhere fighting against the hegemony of Oyo and Ibadan. Fabunmi of the Okemesi fame, Ogedengbe of the Ijeshas, Lishabi of the Egbas, Balogun Kuku of the Ijebus who by and large were independent of Oyo dominance, in fact, Ijebus would tell you they are not 'omo Oduduwa'. Awo bridged some of the gap since you know who tried to hijack NCNC never mind the fact that many of those Lagos Yorubas had a lot in common with the Egba Yorubas because they were the first to be exposed to Western Education.

naijababe:
Ogedengbe of the Ijeshas

this dude is a legend.
the frequency at which his name pops up is insane. his equivalent in this generation would be rambo. legend has it that he killed 5,000 warriors in 3 hours.

coogar:


this dude is a legend.
the frequency at which his name pops up is insane. his equivalent in this generation would be rambo. legend has it that he killed 5,000 warriors in 3 hours.

I am telling you. That guy is a fooking cult legend on his own!

Katsumoto:


Akinjide and OBJ aren't really the same in any way. I wouldn't even label Akinjide as deceitful; he was just a sell-out. He famously provided the mathematical interpretation that was used to deny Awo the 1979 election.

Why did you say that?

The Akinjide man is notorious for always being on the opposing side, when it comes to anything Yoruba. And didn't OBJ also play a big role in denying Awo the 1979 election?

They're a birds of a feather to me lol. Two unprincipled men.

naijababe:


That's half the story and quite late in the day. Once AG was weakened by Akintola's NNDP, Yoruba politics was not the same. Remnants of AG went on to align with Awo under UPN while almost all of NNDP supporters aligned with NPN. The same folks almost all went on to join the PDP while all Awo loyalists were the core founders of AD before OBJ hijacked and decimated it. For the first time in a very long time, Eastern and Western Yoruba leaders on clout are working together. The last time that happened was briefly during IBB's option A4 when SDP and NRC were formed.

This isn't different from what I stated.

naijababe:


Katz baby, that's not the full story o, long before that, regional leaders were springing up everywhere fighting against the hegemony of Oyo and Ibadan. Fabunmi of the Okemesi fame, Ogedengbe of the Ijeshas, Lishabi of the Egbas, Balogun Kuku of the Ijebus who by and large were independent of Oyo dominance, in fact, Ijebus would tell you they are not 'omo Oduduwa'. Awo bridged some of the gap since you know who tried to hijack NCNC never mind the fact that many of those Lagos Yorubas had a lot in common with the Egba Yorubas because they were the first to be exposed to Western Education.

I am well aware of the struggles before and during the Kiriji war. My point is that Awo uplifted the other Yorubas who weren't Lagos or Ibadan. Before Awo formed AG, only the Lagos NCNC leaders were relevant politically. In addition, the Yorubas became more educated under Awo.

SirShymexx:


Lol. Yorubas aren't even naturally into capitalism lol.

I am not going to attempt to comment on this.

naijababe:


I am telling you. That guy is a fooking cult legend on his own!

ibadan folks would not forget him in a hurry. he dealt with them on a large scale.

SirShymexx:


Why did you say that?

The Akinjide man is notorious for always being on the opposing side, when it comes to anything Yoruba. And didn't OBJ also play a big role in denying Awo the 1979 election?

They're a birds of a feather to me lol. Two unprincipled men.

Being on the opposing side doesn't make you deceitful. Besides Yoruba culture has always supported more than one choice. Yoruba history is littered with too many examples. Perhaps you can say they didn't look out for the welfare of the Yoruba.

coogar:


this dude is a legend.
the frequency at which his name pops up is insane. his equivalent in this generation would be rambo. legend has it that he killed 5,000 warriors in 3 hours.

naijababe:

I am telling you. That guy is a fooking cult legend on his own!

His name, ipso facto, is legendary. Ogedengbe Agbogungboro. There are many legends about the man.

naijababe:




I am not going to attempt to comment on this.

Why not?

Katsumoto:


Why not?

You truly believe Yorubas aren't naturally into capitalism?!

naijababe:




I am not going to attempt to comment on this.

I think only Ijebus are proper capitalists to an extent but even Ijebu capitalism is solely based on shrewdness cos the same folks spend money lavishly on owanbe parties. Real capitalists don't waste money like that. So, I'd just say Ijebus are industrious.

I don't think other Yorubas are like that.

naijababe:


You truly believe Yorubas aren't naturally into capitalism?!

I think there are many Yoruba who are Capitalists but as a collective, I believe the Yoruba, as a collective, are more socialists in practice.

Hence why more Yoruba supported Awo over Akintola who was more elitist.

Katsumoto:


Being on the opposing side doesn't make you deceitful. Besides Yoruba culture has always supported more than one choice. Yoruba history is littered with too many examples. Perhaps you can say they didn't look out for the welfare of the Yoruba.

Well, you are right.

Katsumoto:

Being on the opposing side doesn't make you deceitful. Besides Yoruba culture has always supported more than one choice. Yoruba history is littered with too many examples. Perhaps you can say they didn't look out for the welfare of the Yoruba.

Exactly!

I guess there is a coming of age for many of us when you realise that idealism gets you nothing in politics. Akinjide may be called all sorts of names today but if it wasn't for him uncovering the 'Igbos' being beneficiaries of 80% of federal scholarship and putting a stop it, many Yorubas also would missed out at getting an education.

Walk a mile in a man's shoes sometimes............