coogar:


this dude is a legend.
the frequency at which his name pops up is insane. his equivalent in this generation would be rambo. legend has it that he killed 5,000 warriors in 3 hours.

With a machine-gun, right?

Or even better a fvcking bomb.

On a second thought, could be he divided the sea and drowned them all...

Mighty dude, this legend of yore.

Katsumoto:


I think there are many Yoruba who are Capitalists but as a collective, I believe the Yoruba, as a collective, are more socialists in practice.

Hence why more Yoruba supported Awo over Akintola who was more elitist.

I disagree.

oilykid:
who is he cause we don't know him here

U dont know him because u are form togo!!!

Katsumoto:


But what exactly did Tinubu learn from Awo? Many Yoruba politicians tend to mention Awo's name for political gain but we can't seem to identify his fiscal or social tenets in their actions.

Tinubu learnt that strict principles and ideology doesn't win election at the federal level. To make an impact, you must form the govt and to form the govt, you must win the election. To win federal election in this era, you must have deep pocket and be able to play dirty. PDP doesn't campaign based on ideology. They simply muscle you with security apparatus and buy willing voters with huge cash. To defeat them, you must do same. It may not sound too good but that's the politics of this era and Tinubu is a master of the game.

I swear, we can all look at the same thing and describe it five thousand different ways, i.e. I bought Biggie's "Life After Death" on the day it came out and memorized the album, but I think both Jay and Nas are more important. BIG just called himself the "king of New York", but the Wu Tang Clan etc wouldn't have agreed.

I also think Yoruba society has a fundamentally capitalist orientation. I'm tempted to even refer to another book I've read on this but then people will start asking "dis oversabi guy--you no dey leave house?!" The whole of town life and economic activity traditionally centered on the market--the "afin" was situated oppposite the "oja". Ijebus engaged in business domestically and were successful but Ijesha and Ogbomoso traders have been international since the early 20th century. There are third and fourth-generation traders in Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire today! Alao-Akala has talked about his family roots in Ghana, for instance. It's the same reason Emmanuel Adebayor plays for Togo. The whole post of "iyaloja" and "parakoyi" suggest that Yoruba society has long been organized on trade and that even the obaship is an outgrowth of that, as you can tell by some titles like "oloja" in different towns. Yoruba communal orientation isn't the opposite of capitalism to me.

We can agree to disagree though. Happy Easter, all. Have to run now.

raumdeuter:
^^ Obj might not be loved in Yorubaland but all over Nigeria he had many loyalists and would have won again

And this is why anyone who is honest with themselves would acknowledge that he is by and large one of our national heroes as much as I loathe to admit it myself.

TerraCotta:
I swear, we can all look at the same thing and describe it five thousand different ways, i.e. I bought Biggie's "Life After Death" on the day it came out and memorized the album, but I think both Jay and Nas are more important. BIG just called himself the "king of New York", but the Wu Tang Clan etc wouldn't have agreed.

I also think Yoruba society has a fundamentally capitalist orientation. I'm tempted to even refer to another book I've read on this but then people will start asking "dis oversabi guy--you no dey leave house?!" The whole of town life and economic activity traditionally centered on the market--the "afin" was situated oppposite the "oja". Ijebus engaged in business domestically and were successful but Ijesha and Ogbomoso traders have been international since the early 20th century. There are third and fourth-generation traders in Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire today! Alao-Akala has talked about his family roots in Ghana, for instance. It's the same reason Emmanuel Adebayor plays for Togo. The whole post of "iyaloja" and "parakoyi" suggest that Yoruba society has long been organized on trade and that even the obaship is an outgrowth of that, as you can tell by some titles like "oloja" in different towns. Yoruba communal orientation isn't the opposite of capitalism to me.

We can agree to disagree though. Happy Easter, all. Have to run now.

Wo, gba si be!!! God bless you, couldn't have put it any better.

naijababe:


And this is why anyone who is honest with themselves would acknowledge that he is by and large one of our national heroes as much as I loathe to admit it myself.

i dislike OBJ more than a mongoose hates a snake but i cannot knock his achievements. he's a great yoruba son!

coogar:


i dislike OBJ more than a mongoose hates a snake but i cannot knock his achievements. he's a great yoruba son!

Coogar, you cannot hate that man more than I do but man, that guy is a don and a great Yoruba son indeed.

Katsumoto:


NCNC was initially a Lagos Yoruba party before it was hijacked by Zik. By the time of the 2nd republic, NCNC had lost relevance and most Yoruba politicians had lined up behind Awo except for those who went for NPN (Akinloye, Akinjide, Abiola, Omoboriowo, Olunloyo) or NPP (Adeniran Ogunsanya).

SirShymexx:


I know the Akinjide man and I believe he has a law chamber in London. . . I don't really know the rest.

Abiola = MKO Abiola.

SirShymexx:

Lol. Yorubas aren't even naturally into capitalism lol.

naijababe:


I am not going to attempt to comment on this.

I understand what he didn't articulate. But I'm a 'Communist' sha, like Katsumoto said.

By the way, what's all the 'great katz' this and 'wonderful katz' that? I taught that pretend Japanese-Brasilero all he knows! Kasunmu omo baba al'aisi water, you better ju'ba f'awon to laiye.

NB, you annoying me. . . and not because of your Awo/Jagaban comparison. You're actually doing very well there. To the point of taking me back to an article - multiserial, I think - that I read in the old Newswatch about Awo's politicking, etc.

< continues reading thread>

Playing ideals in politics sometimes is more beneficial than joining forces with the other side. It depends on the clime and sometimes, it better to stick with ya base - than go for the big one - and end up losing everything.

UK politics is a classic example. Lib Dem had the momentum during the last election and would have solidified that by aligning with Labour (almost the same party), especially based on how uncharismatic Ed Milliband is - and the Iraq war baggage. But they went for the big one by forming a coalition government with the Tories.

End game: Lib Dem is dead. Resurgence of Labour. And the Tories maintained their core base, albeit gave a percentage to their UKIP offspring.

Timing/clime is everything. Nigeria was still a kid sucking on ti.ts when Awo was alive. And the government was never stable. They had six years, then a coup happened. Afterwards, the civil war started. And back to military rule. Then a short democracy. And back to military rule. This era is different. Tinubu had 16 straight years to plan and execute - Awo never had that.

@ Isale, wetin i do you now?

TerraCotta:
I swear, we can all look at the same thing and describe it five thousand different ways, i.e. I bought Biggie's "Life After Death" on the day it came out and memorized the album, but I think both Jay and Nas are more important. BIG just called himself the "king of New York", but the Wu Tang Clan etc wouldn't have agreed.

I also think Yoruba society has a fundamentally capitalist orientation. I'm tempted to even refer to another book I've read on this but then people will start asking "dis oversabi guy--you no dey leave house?!" The whole of town life and economic activity traditionally centered on the market--the "afin" was situated oppposite the "oja". Ijebus engaged in business domestically and were successful but Ijesha and Ogbomoso traders have been international since the early 20th century. There are third and fourth-generation traders in Ghana and Cote D'Ivoire today! Alao-Akala has talked about his family roots in Ghana, for instance. It's the same reason Emmanuel Adebayor plays for Togo. The whole post of "iyaloja" and "parakoyi" suggest that Yoruba society has long been organized on trade and that even the obaship is an outgrowth of that, as you can tell by some titles like "oloja" in different towns. Yoruba communal orientation isn't the opposite of capitalism to me.

We can agree to disagree though. Happy Easter, all. Have to run now.

But Socialist and Communist areas all have/had the same concept. Most agrarian societies were structured that way regardless of whether they were communist or capitalist or socialist.

Socialist and communist societies also produce wealthy people.

question for you and Naijababe - The UK, Germany, & France are all prosperous nations - would you say they are capitalist nations?

Capitalist societies are centered on the individual; every man for himself. Is it an every man for himself situation in Yorubaland?

What we are doing here I believe, is one of the major reasons that brought Nairaland into cyberspace. Kudos to all those that have contributed to this intellectual discourse.

SirShymexx:
Playing ideals in politics sometimes is more beneficial than joining forces with the other side. It depends on the clime and sometimes, it better to stick with ya base - than go for the big one - and end up losing everything.

UK politics is a classic example. Lib Dem had the momentum during the last election and would have solidified that by aligning with Labour (almost the same party), especially based on how uncharismatic Ed Milliband is - and the Iraq war baggage. But they went for the big one by forming a coalition government with the Tories.

End game: Lib Dem is dead. Resurgence of Labour. And the Tories maintained their core base, albeit gave a percentage to their UKIP offspring.

Timing/clime is everything. Nigeria was still a kid sucking on ti.ts when Awo was alive. And the government was never stable. They had six years, then a coup happened. Afterwards, the civil war started. And back to military rule. Then a short democracy. And back to military rule. This era is different. Tinubu had 16 straight years to plan and execute - Awo never had that.

on the contrary, playing idealism ruined liberal democrat in the UK. in principle, liberals cannot work with conservatives but nick clegg formed an english alliance with an incompatible david cameron to kick out gordon brown who is scottish!

90% of what liberal democrat wanted was against cameron's policies but they wanted a pure english government & that ruined lib dem. under 3 months, cameron turned nick clegg into a liar because cameron couldn't deliver what clegg had promised his electorates.

if clegg wasn't a tribal idealist, gordon brown should have been his choice.

So Katsumoto is back on NL

Very interesting thread.

I'm so glad Prof Katz is back.

Jagaban is a very brilliant dude, he has his shortcomings though.

SirShymexx:
Playing ideals in politics sometimes is more beneficial than joining forces with the other side. It depends on the clime and sometimes, it better to stick with ya base - than go for the big one - and end up losing everything.

UK politics is a classic example. Lib Dem had the momentum during the last election and would have solidified that by aligning with Labour (almost the same party), especially based on how uncharismatic Ed Milliband is - and the Iraq war baggage. But they went for the big one by forming a coalition government with the Tories.

End game: Lib Dem is dead. Resurgence of Labour. And the Tories maintained their core base, albeit gave a percentage to their UKIP offspring.

Timing/clime is everything. Nigeria was still a kid sucking on ti.ts when Awo was alive. And the government was never stable. They had six years, then a coup happened. Afterwards, the civil war started. And back to military rule. Then a short democracy. And back to military rule. This era is different. Tinubu had 16 straight years to plan and execute - Awo never had that.

Exactly - I made that point earlier. Not only that, Nigerians have lived together as a family for 55 years; In 1959, Nigeria wasn't even a nation. There were no precedents or benchmarks for Awo to rely on. Plus Awo had to deal with a more powerful enemy - the Brits.

isalegan2:



I understand what he didn't articulate. But I'm a 'Communist' sha, like Katsumoto said.

By the way, what's all the 'great katz' this and 'wonderful katz' that? I taught that pretend Japanese-Brasilero all he knows! Kasunmu omo baba al'aisi water, you better ju'ba f'awon to laiye.

< continues reading thread>

zimoni:
Very interesting thread.
I'm so glad Prof Katz is back.
Jagaban is a very brilliant dude, he has his shortcomings though.

Missy89:
So Katsumoto is back on NL

You don't want me here? ? ? Ok I ll be gone before sunset.

coogar:


on the contrary, playing idealism ruined liberal democrat in the UK. in principle, liberals cannot work with conservatives but nick clegg formed an english alliance with an incompatible david cameron to kick out gordon brown who is scottish!

90% of what liberal democrat wanted was against cameron's policies but they wanted a pure english government & that ruined lib dem. under 3 months, cameron turned nick clegg into a liar because cameron couldn't deliver what clegg had promised his electorates.

if clegg wasn't a tribal idealist, gordon brown should have been his choice.

Lol. It wasn't an English alliance - the grand plan by Lib Dem was usurping Labour from mainstream UK politics. And they had the momentum cos a lot of Labour crowds voted for them. But it backfired.

The whole tribal thing had more to do with how the people voted than the coalition. Lib Dem didn't perform badly in Scotland during the last election.

Katsumoto:


Exactly - I made that point earlier. Not only that, Nigerians have lived together as a family for 55 years; In 1959, Nigeria wasn't even a nation. There were no precedents or benchmarks for Awo to rely on. Plus Awo had to deal with a more powerful enemy - the Brits.

Awo the greatest - that is my naija hero.

A selfless enigma who sacrificed everything for his people and put them in a position to compete. You can't be greater than that.

Katsumoto:


You don't want me here? ? ? Ok I ll be gone before sunset.

STAYYYYYYYY

Katsumoto:


But Socialist and Communist areas all have/had the same concept. Most agrarian societies were structured that way regardless of whether they were communist or capitalist or socialist.

Socialist and communist societies also produce wealthy people.

question for you and Naijababe - The UK, Germany, & France are all prosperous nations - would you say they are capitalist nations?

Capitalist societies are centered on the individual; every man for himself. Is it an every man for himself situation in Yorubaland?

I'd still argue that the Yorubas are more capitalist.

'Oko kii je ti baba tomo koma la'ala'!

SirShymexx:

Lol. It wasn't an English alliance - the grand plan by Lib Dem was usurping Labour from mainstream UK politics. And they had the momentum cos a lot of Labour crowds voted for them. But it backfired.
The whole tribal thing had more to do with how the people voted than the coalition. Lib Dem didn't perform badly in Scotland during the last election.

It was idealism, aligning with Labour would a have produced a parliament run by election losers! If they had looked past that idealism, it would have been much better for them. Besides, Gordon Brown was a goner either way

Katsumoto:




How you doing bro?

Good Good!! Your were missed.

ADAMUdaCOWBOY:
pls yorubas in the house what does jagaban mean

Jagaba Means Leader in Hausa.
I don't know if that's what the Title he got From Niger means.

SirShymexx:


Lol. It wasn't an English alliance - the grand plan by Lib Dem was usurping Labour from mainstream UK politics. And they had the momentum cos a lot of Labour crowds voted for them. But it backfired.

The whole tribal thing had more to do with how the people voted than the coalition. Lib Dem didn't perform badly in Scotland during the last election.

labour won in scotland & lib dem came 3rd. the rootless SNP even polled more votes than lib dem there. nick clegg is a fool - he sold out & formed an evil alliance with cameron. both of them would be disgraced out of downing street next month.

naijababe:
It was idealism, aligning with Labour would a have produced a parliament run by election losers! If they had looked past that idealism, it would have been much better for them. Besides, Gordon Brown was a goner either way

i sincerely like gordon brown - he's another monster in politics. even when blair was in power, gordon brown was the german machine. his biggest flaw is his lack of oratory skills.

naijababe:
@ Isale, wetin i do you now?

Where's OlaOne, Kilode, Aja the gentleman and a scholar, OAM4multiplewivesJ. . .?

naijababe:


I'd still argue that the Yorubas are more capitalist.

'Oko kii je ti baba tomo koma la'ala'!

It was idealism, aligning with Labour would a have produced a parliament run by election losers! If they had looked past that idealism, it would have been much better for them. Besides, Gordon Brown was a goner either way

You are correct on that. The Lib Dems had a role to ensure losers did not end up running the country; especially considering that labour was responsible the mess the UK were in.

I don't understand the Yoruba up there.

naijababe:

I'd still argue that the Yorubas are more capitalist.

'Oko kii je ti baba tomo koma la'ala'!

It was idealism, aligning with Labour would a have produced a parliament run by election losers! If they had looked past that idealism, it would have been much better for them. Besides, Gordon Brown was a goner either way

Aligning with Labour would have been idealism since they both lost, and usurping Labour while in a coalition government with the same party would impracticable. They are basically the same, albeit more left-leaning than Labour.

Hence they decided to go with the Tories for the limelight - while pushing Labour to the side. But it back-fired.

Women are always swayed by shiny things. It is said that power is an aphrodisiac
Awolowo fought for the Yorubas while Tinubu fights for himself and for Power. There is so much that taints Tinubu on a personal level and Tinubu falls into the category of "omo buruku ti o l'ojo t'ire.

If you look at Awolowo's legacy it lies not only in infrastructural development of which there is much that endures to this day bearing in mind that he did this with Cocoa money and not oil money but also human development. Much of that endures to this day of the three zones from the first republic Odua Investment company Wema Bank etc are still alive although Wema has been partially divested. Ikeja was part of the Wester Region and developed as an industrial estate by Awo. Airport Hotel in Ikeja is part of His Legacy. He did not acquire government property for himself

His Personal newspaper the Tribune still stands to this day. We must ask the question WHAT HAS TINUBU DONE FOR YORUBA ? For me I would say it is early days but the only thing I see is "bragging rights" but nothing that will endure. Human development has not moved forward.

We must ask what it is Yorubas want from Nigeria
and will we get it under the current arrangement? I am skeptical but I am happy to see the back of Jonathan. There is no comparison between Tinubu and Awo whether in terms of character or achievements for Yoruba

SirShymexx:


Aligning with Labour would have been idealism since they both lost, and usurping Labour while in a coalition government with the same party would impracticable. They are basically the same, albeit more left-leaning than Labour.

Hence they decided to go with the Tories for the limelight - while pushing Labour to the side. But it back-fired.

Lib Dem is to the right of Labour. Don't let Blair deceive you, Labour is a completely socialist party. Lib Dems are more centrists.

Katsumoto:


You are correct on that. The Lib Dems had a role to ensure losers did not end up running the country; especially considering that labour was responsible the mess the UK were in.

And that idealism cost them a majority of their core base who largely make up the fooking UKIP now!

I don't understand the Yoruba up there.

Literal translation: A farmland may not belong to a father and son without boundaries
Forgive me, I am terrible at translating yoruba adages.