naijaking1:

I'll be glad if you had contradicted me by saying it meant a different thing in Ijaw. I told you what it meant in Igbo. I think the obsession with Ijawlizing Igbo names is a problem you people have. Now tell me the Ijaw meanings of Amechi, Nwuche(Wuche), Odili(Odiri, Odilichukwu), and Ebele(Ebere).
While I'm not personally from the riverine area, Igbos from that area, just like other tribes have a right to be named according to their own language and tradition.

No one is saying Ikwerre people are Ijaw. Ikwerre people on the other hand say they aren't Igbo just Ikwerre; they didn't claim Ijaw. You on the other hand made a wrong assertion by saying Wakirike is an Igbo word and means Son of 'Okirika'. I corrected you but rather than admit error. You try to change to topic to bring in the Ikwerre. Personally, I do not understand why Ikwerre people are not a sub group of Igbo but that is my personal opinion as i am not Ikwerre. Regarding the non-Ijaw tribes in RV state, I have no idea about their history.

I would not put it to an Ikwerre man that he is Igbo when I do not know his history. You on the other hand have changed your position on this thread. You are isinuating Ijaw villages are Igbo by giving false meanings that I think is wrong and you should apologise for that error. Since I do not understand Igbo you will now tell me Wakrike doesn't mean son of Okirika again as Okirika means our land in Igbo abi?

I have discussed with Udezue about Igbos being indigenous to RV state. Anyone who says there is no Indigenous Igbo village in RV state is a liar however, you do not need to concort stories about Ijaw villages ( and giving ridiculous meanings) as being Igbo to state the obvious.

Since we are now throwing names care to tell the meaning of Orafiri or Ibidukojumopirima? If you can't just give the Igbo equivalent These are 'Umuokirika' names.

ijaw_girl:

Ibime, Is creek road/area for Okrikas or Kalabaris?

There are many Kalabari people living there today as per urban migration but the Kalabari land closest to PH is Bakana that has a land boundary with Isaka. That is where the Sports Institute is and it's just some nautical miles off Reclamation road in Old PH.

@Ow11
One more thing about moving forward. There're basic universal laws of humanity that apply just about to everybody in this World; we could start by applying some of that, e.g

1. That it is wrong to extract mineral from one part of the country, destroy their land, pollute their environment; and use that money to develope another part of the country without adequate compensation. We should note the examples of Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma where oil extraction is the business of the individual land owners. There no amount of compensation that would be paid to an individual whose ancestral home has been destroyed that would be adequate. An individual/family with oil in their land should be allowed to extract the oil and pay applicable tax to local, state and federal governments.

2. That individuals and group from the former eastern Nigeria should recognize their past mistakes, and move forward in a way that those mistakes will not be repeated.
3. That wether by destiny or fate, proximity, and economy, the survival of these easterners are intricately interwoven.

naijaking1:

@Ow11
One more thing about moving forward. There're basic universal laws of humanity that apply just about to everybody in this World; we could start by applying some of that, e.g

1. That it is wrong to extract mineral from one part of the country, destroy their land, pollute their environment; and use that money to develope another part of the country without adequate compensation. We should note the examples of Texas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma where oil extraction is the business of the individual land owners. There no amount of compensation that would be paid to an individual whose ancestral home has been destroyed that would be adequate. An individual/family with oil in their land should be allowed to extract the oil and pay applicable tax to local, state and federal governments.

2. That individuals and group from the former eastern Nigeria should recognize their past mistakes, and move forward in a way that those mistakes will not be repeated.
3. That wether by destiny or fate, proximity, and economy, the survival of these easterners are intricately interwoven.

Good points. The problem with Point 2 is that the groups are reluctant to recognise past mistakes. They each throw accusations but fail to acknowledge them, instead wave them off as nonsense and try to drive their own agenda. In Ijaw/Igbo case, this happens both ways.

The bigger problem is that would this new union be to neutralize the Hausa/Fulani stranglehold on major economic/political decisions in Nigeria or when a new country is formed containing members of the Old Eastern region with new entrants.

PS: You still haven't acknowledged your error!

@ow11.i don't believe you are ijaw. you might be yoruba or hausa.if not you have no reasons trying to disunite us.nobody said those names ie oboama and co are exclusively igbo names.what i said is that they happen to occur in both igbo and ijaw with different meanings in both languages.speaking igbo is not an offence.that opobo and bonny speak igbo is not bad.no igbo from imo or abia can come to opobo and say that he owns it.opobo is owned by opobo people.even okirika cannot claim opobo.what i said is that they speak thesame type of igbo with ngwa,asa and ndoki.not that they are igbos or all igbos own opobo.

@ow11.i don't believe you are ijaw. you might be yoruba or hausa.if not you have no reasons trying to disunite us.nobody said those names ie oboama and co are exclusively igbo names.what i said is that they happen to occur in both igbo and ijaw with different meanings in both languages.speaking igbo is not an offence.that opobo and bonny speak igbo is not bad.no igbo from imo or abia can come to opobo and say that he owns it.opobo is owned by opobo people.even okirika cannot claim opobo.what i said is that they speak thesame type of igbo with ngwa,asa and ndoki.not that they are igbos or all igbos own opobo.

@ow11.i don't believe you are ijaw. you might be yoruba or hausa.if not you have no reasons trying to disunite us.nobody said those names ie oboama and co are exclusively igbo names.what i said is that they happen to occur in both igbo and ijaw with different meanings in both languages.speaking igbo is not an offence.that opobo and bonny speak igbo is not bad.no igbo from imo or abia can come to opobo and say that he owns it.opobo is owned by opobo people.even okirika cannot claim opobo.what i said is that they speak thesame type of igbo with ngwa,asa and ndoki.not that they are igbos or all igbos own opobo.

Abagworo:

@ow11.i don't believe you are ijaw. you might be yoruba or hausa.

Did you have to say that? Why would you think so?

if not you have no reasons trying to disunite us.nobody said those names ie oboama and co are exclusively igbo names.what i said is that they happen to occur in both igbo and ijaw with different meanings in both languages.speaking igbo is not an offence.that opobo and bonny speak igbo is not bad.no igbo from imo or abia can come to opobo and say that he owns it.opobo is owned by opobo people.even okirika cannot claim opobo.what i said is that they speak thesame type of igbo with ngwa,asa and ndoki.not that they are igbos or all igbos own opobo.

That those words/names exist in both languages with different meaning that is nothing new. I can give you more: 'Aka' means hand in Igbo but means teeth in some dialects of Ijaw. I was just irked when you gave meanings as if they were exclusively Igbo words. But I guess you've cleared the air on that one.

This quote I extracted from you is a very honest one and I wonder if all Igbo people on this thread will agree with you.

"This thread is gradually deviating.igbos and ijaws are highly related.why ijaws in the east look very different from bayelsa and delta ijaws is as a result of high igbo blood.many names that ijaws who have hardly entered inside igboland believe are exclusively ijaw does appear in igbo and have igbo meanings.oboama and umuokirika are in mbaise.the word 'ama' means either outpost or area in igbo.some igbos call it 'ogbe' or 'ogba'.in igboland ama occurs as much as it occurs in ijaw.mbiama(in orlu imo state) means 'end of area(boundary)' in igbo but might have ijaw meaning.amakama(in olokoro umuahia) means an 'area greater than others' in igbo but might have ijaw meaning.ubani is an ngwa(abia state) name and is extremely common there.opubo ama(he has not left area) in ngwa.masquarade is nwotam and i believe ijaws in opobo have their own version too.infact opobo culture has little difference with these three igbo groups ngwa,ndoki and asa.even the language i hear them speak at opobo(not central igbo) is thesame."-Abagworo

@Ow11,
I included the above quote so that you can get your bearing as to what we're talking about. There's no need for my apology regarding my interpretation of the different versions of Okirika.
Once again; UmuOw11, NwOw11, WOw11, in Igbo, all means son of Ow11----no apologies!

ijaw_girl:

Ibime, Is creek road/area for Okrikas or Kalabaris?

It doesn't matter, they are all Ijaws.

afam4eva:

If there's any ethnic group that have laid claim to land that is not theirs, then it's the Ijaws, Most places they claim as theirs in present day Port-Hacourt where originally owned by Ikwerres who gave the river banks to them,since the only place they called home was the river, only for them to claim to most of the land.

This is claptrap. Were the Okrikas living under the water?

Guys, lets not get things confused. No one cares about PH City. PH City is a dilapidated slum which deserves to be bulldozed and rebuilt from scratch.

The main crux of Igbos argument as to the origins of PH have more to do with PH docks than the city itself. Access to shipping is essential for any nation or tribe etc.

An Ijaw man will never fight the Igbo over land, but he will go to war over access to the water.

It is documented that the Amanayanabo of Okrika sold Borokiri to the British so that they could build a port in 1912.

Dede1 and others claim that by Igwe Ocha, they mean PH docks as it means "blue sky" - referring to the water. Igwe Ocha was never a name for Port-Harcourt, rather a subversive name for PH docks. i.e they own the docks.

We also know upland PH was a forest, interspersed with Ikwerre lands. We have never tried to claim Ikwerre lands (except for a little tiffle over Trans-Amadi area). The question is who owns the riverine areas, particularly the docks?

Reasonable Igbos like Naijaking, Abagworo etc concede that Town and Borokiri is traditional Ijaw land.

Infact, the Ikwerre villages are intact as they were found by the British. Ikwerre/Rebisi land goes no further South than Diobu. There is not a single Ikwerre community in Town or Borokiri.

Afam4eva just brought it up by claiming "Ikwerres let the Ijaws settle on the waterfronts". This leads to a wider claim regarding access to the sea.

We know that the Ikwerres are the people of Igwe-Ocha and they are still in the settlements where they have always been.

Ijaws have never denied Igbos access to the sea and never will. The Igbos have never shown interest in seafaring till now. So there is no need to start doing gra-gra over land rights.

If as Afam claims, Ikwerres are the traditional owners of the Riverine areas, where is their riverine culture?

I tell you, the battle for PH is the most important issue in Ndigbo today. Before anyone talks about brotherhood, this issue must be addressed.

@Ibi

It is unfortunate that you do not know iota of issue in discourse. Well Opu Obu Ama is not a person but community founded by Jubo Jubogha, Obomanu, Peterside and Cookey.

Opu Obu Ama (later bastardized as Opobo) is combination of Igbo words meaning a secret door of the house to the outside.

After a brief debacle in the kingdom of Okpara Asimin, Jubo and his fellow mutinous gang left the kingdom of Ubani (Bonny bastardized anglo) moved eastward where they overpowered the inhabitants that constituted some part of Ikot Abasi in 1870 to proclaim Opu Obu Ama.


@ijaw girl

You are a drooling simpleton and should shot your putrid and maggot infested mouth when issues beyond your pedigree are being discussed. This issue is way beyond your Google expertise.

Dede1:

@Ibi

It is unfortunate that you do not know iota of issue in discourse. Well Opu Obu Ama is not a person but community founded by Jubo Jubogha, Obomanu, Peterside and Cookey.

In Ijaw land, when you name a town after a person, you usually suffix it with Ama.

For example, if I start a town, I would name it Ibime-Ama ie Ibime Town.

I am from George-Ama, meaning the towns founder was my ancestor Mr George. On my grandmothers side, I am also from Ogan-Ama meaning the towns founder was Mr Ogan.

Every Ijaw town named after a person is suffixed with Ama.

Therefore Opubo is a person and Opubo Ama is named after him.

Infact, he is one of the greatest Amanyanabos in Ibani history, and Jaja named the town after Opubo rather than himself to show the people that he respects their culture as he was wary of causing strife by naming a town after a man of 'servile birth' like himself. Jaja was a very wise man.

It is important to read up on the history of these places before trying to claim them.

Nna Dede1 your yarns.

Dede1:

Opu Obu Ama (later bastardized as Opobo) is combination of Igbo words meaning a secret door of the house to the outside.

Secret door of the house to outside my nyash!

Dede1 na wa. see all these historians

at dede1 look at you lol

Opubo was a great Ijaw leader in Bonny, Jaja Opobo  named opobo town after him

haha this boy jks, see how ur disgracing yourself, Bonny  was Okoloma

Ibani came from Kala-Beni (Ibeni) corrupted to Ibani, he was an Ijaw fisherman/hunter/prince. The founding ancestors of the Ibani (Ibeni) came from the central delta Ebe of Kolokuma, specifically the Isedani lineage of Kolokuma who had founded Okoloba.
They arrived at an island with other Ijaws where they saw a large number of birds and named it FINI-AMA which means *Bird Town*,later he  moved onto Bonny town(Okoloma) where he settled.

like I said, Bonny Island is made up of towns Okoloma (Bonny town), Finima,, Kalaibiama,  ,  lastly Orubiri Bonny is just a name used to group them together

Ibime:

I tell you, the battle for PH is the most important issue in Ndigbo today. Before anyone talks about brotherhood, this issue must be addressed.

Here lies the crux, the mind-set and the cause of the whole dispute. Port Harcourt like every major city has been built, needs to be maitained, and even expanded. There's nowhere in your thinking you allude to further developing PH, all your tunnel vision is focused on ownership.
If we did not live in a society where people wake up everymorning looking for a piece of the federal pie to consume, and not looking to make pie for themselves and others, you wouldn't be emphasizing ownership of a huge city like PH. Apart from the right to sell the few remaining plots of land in the city, I doubt if there's any other benefit to any "rightful owner" of a city like PH.
Look, NYC used to owned by the Indians, then the Dutch, the Brits, then the Italians, then the Jews, and now by a mixture of Indo/Pakistani, black, and puerto Ricans. Great cities change ownership, structure, and outlook, otherwise they die. What do you want for PH?

Opubo means great, ama means town, thats PURE IZON  nembe dialect, Eastern Ijaws too ama=town

Finima is beautiful, the town of wild birds and lots of hippos too, they have the most hippos in great bonny, check my page-the picture of the one in my villa
no wonder kala-beni called it fini-ama

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy0dL091qlc&feature=related

Naijaking1,

Change of ownership is not by force or by making spurious claims of ownership.

This issue is a very real issue as Waterfronts are being bulldozed by Amaechi presently and Ijaw leaders are in a fit of pique about it.

The mindset is with a view to the future. Should Biafra and Ijawland become two seperate Kindgoms tomorrow, who gets access to the shipping? If Ijaw chooses to go with Biafra under a confederate system, do the Okrika indigenes receive levies from the Biafran Government for the use of the docks or will Biafra trample upon their rights by claiming they have no indigenous claim to the port? Or - if Ndigbo is intent on claiming ownership of the docks, does that mean they have a mindset of creating their own nation without the Ijaw - leading to further territorial conflict between both nations in other parts of Rivers and Delta states?

This is the crux of the issue! - And the biggest stumbling block in Ijaw-Igbo relations.


@ Ijaw-girl,

Please ask Dede1 to give you a discourse on monkey village, or at least talk about some of the elephants or hippopotamuses he has seen in Opobo or Bonny Island. Also, he can enlighten us as to why we celebrate Pioru and Piriangala and not New Yam festival. 

@Ibime
Since you're stuck on properties, rights to sea, and docks; do you ever stop to think that many in-land water ways in Oguta, Onitsha could be made very navigable. Ijaws don't control all access to the sea, I hope you realise that. You forget that it's only a fool that thinks he's indispensible. That has never, and will not be a good attitude to have at a personal, family, state, or even tribal level. Somehow, I'm amazed at the this blackmailing posture fom a people who should have learnt some lesson from Hausa/Fulani people. I guess you could deny sea acces to Igbo people, then give it to Hausa people

Its not about denying access. Its about people stealing your land.

No need to behave like Agbero. Every port collects taxes, whether in Egypt or Panama.

Under international law, nothing is free my friend.

Why should you make an assumption that anyone is trying to deny you anything? You are beginning to think like an Agbero. Shipping is a good, just like cocoyam and palm oil. Some countries like Panama depend almost solely on it - and America does not accuse them of 'trying to deny access'. An Ijaw man will no more allow you to take a revenue generating stream like shipping from him than he would allow you to take his oil for free. Even Germany charges small Luxembourg shipping duties, much less Ijaw and Igbo.

If you prefer, you can go to Calabar or Lagos for your shipping needs. No need to get mad. Its simple capitalism.

By the way, you know that none of your 'rivers' can support any Cargo ship, and even so they will have to pay toll duties travelling up Ijaw Rivers to get there.


I hope this discourse will provide you with reasons why knowledgeable Igbos like Dede1 see the need to make claims on PH, Opobo and Bonny, however spurious. Dede1 is a true patriot. Unfortunately his type of patriotism will forever drive a wedge between Ijaw and Igbo.

Here you're. Laying claim and counting your eggs before they're hatched. Gaullible.

naijaking1:

Here you're. Laying claim and counting your eggs before they're hatched. Gaullible.

Gullible you mean.


Why do you guys try to act like agberos? You were being reasonable until I laid out the koko for you.

Ijaws are neither dispensible nor indispensible. It is what you want it to be. This is the mistake Ojukwu made. Why not come to a reasonable agreement under internationally accepted standards like any normal country would?

If you refuse to recognise indigenous rights, what makes you different from our current oppressors Nigeria?

Ijaws tamed this harsh terrain when no other tribe would go near it and we will be damned if we give up its fruits to anyone else to our detriment. All we have always asked for is fair treatment whether from Naija or Biafra. Is that not why MEND started shooting?

Of course, I do not need to mention that ownership of waterfronts entitles you to revenues from off-shore oil.

The situation is at an impasse. Thats why OW11 judged the situation correctly when he said that whilst brotherhood is a desirable outcome, Ijaws are better off fighting to forge their own destiny.

@Ibime
Thanks for that spelling! Happily you get the point.
I don't understand why you people feel taken for granted at every turn. Was a few minutes discussion with Ojukwu, the reason for sabotaging Biafra? I don't think so.
I believe there're issue b/w us even before Ojukwu was born. These issues probably became aggrevated by the discovery of oil, the war, Hausa/Yoruba interference.

So the common enemy is the hausa/yoruba? hmm

bawomolo:

So the common enemy is the hausa/yoruba? hmm

Come on man, you know the deal!
Yorubas in the west and Hausas in the north have no other interest in flaming the inter-regional disagreement in east except for obvious political reasons.
How would you like the Igbos/Hausa to inflame the age old dispute between the Ijebus and the Egbas?

I maintained that Ijo people, other than Ndigbo who intermingled with them, were of the canoe people and slaves/servants of Europeans who visited the coastal areas know as Nigeria,

Many lazy loudmouth punks have been putting up disgraceful historical shenanigans without grasping the degree of damages they are causing.

It is funny that these punks realized that Jubo Jubogha is King Jaja himself. Now, Kalabari is derivatives of New Calabar that was born out of Calaber of Efik that took her leave from Portuguese name Calberia. The early visiting Europeans had named the coastal area that is known as Calabar today as Calberia.

The so-called present Kalabari was founded by Nwananaku (Amakiri Oboko) who migrated from Ikwerre town of Obu Amafo, currently Obuama, settled in Elem-Kalaberi. Later, the town Elem-ama ruled by King Kamalu ( Ibo native doctor). One of the King Kamalu’s son left to find Bile another powerful Kalabari city state. He was King Agboniye Ejike.

@Ibime,
You said earlier"

In Ijaw land, when you name a town after a person, you usually suffix it with Ama.

For example, if I start a town, I would name it Ibime-Ama ie Ibime Town.

I am from George-Ama, meaning the towns founder was my ancestor Mr George. On my grandmothers side, I am also from Ogan-Ama meaning the towns founder was Mr Ogan.

Every Ijaw town named after a person is suffixed with Ama.

Therefore Opubo is a person and Opubo Ama is named after him.

Infact, he is one of the greatest Amanyanabos in Ibani history, and Jaja named the town after Opubo rather than himself to show the people that he respects their culture as he was wary of causing strife by naming a town after a man of 'servile birth' like himself. Jaja was a very wise man.

It is important to read up on the history of these places before trying to claim them. "

Speaking about Ama, and the meanings. In Igbo, Ama also means village, town, place. Amaigbo, Eziama, Amauro, etc are clearly Igbo names with reference to Ama.

It must be a concidence, or the Ijaws borrowed from Igbos, or the Igbos borrowed from Ijaws.

Yorubas in the west and Hausas in the north have no other interest in flaming the inter-regional disagreement in east except for obvious political reasons.

we are just spectators, you guys are doing a good job of flaming the dispute yourselves.

bawomolo:

we are just spectators, you guys are doing a good job of flaming the dispute yourselves.

Abi-o! Maybe you guys can learn from our bitter lesson. Our leaders refused to learn from the Afonja episode.

naijaking1:

@Ibime,
You said earlier"

In Ijaw land, when you name a town after a person, you usually suffix it with Ama.

For example, if I start a town, I would name it Ibime-Ama ie Ibime Town.

I am from George-Ama, meaning the towns founder was my ancestor Mr George. On my grandmothers side, I am also from Ogan-Ama meaning the towns founder was Mr Ogan.

Every Ijaw town named after a person is suffixed with Ama.

Therefore Opubo is a person and Opubo Ama is named after him.

Infact, he is one of the greatest Amanyanabos in Ibani history, and Jaja named the town after Opubo rather than himself to show the people that he respects their culture as he was wary of causing strife by naming a town after a man of 'servile birth' like himself. Jaja was a very wise man.

It is important to read up on the history of these places before trying to claim them. "

Speaking about Ama, and the meanings. In Igbo, Ama also means village, town, place. Amaigbo, Eziama, Amauro, etc are clearly Igbo names with reference to Ama.

It must be a concidence, or the Ijaws borrowed from Igbos, or the Igbos borrowed from Ijaws.

Of course neighbouring tribes would borrow words from one another(French/English or Spanish/Portuguese). No one is quite sure which words were borrowed from either language so it is better to leave the communal words out of this discourse.

It would made a little more sense if an Igbo man can understand Kalabari, Nembe or Kolokuma just by understanding the communal words. I just wonder why It is necessary to prove that RV-Ijaw are Igbos through and through? Even if you use communal words to buttress your point.(Wakirike means Son of Okirika ) Or like dede1 uses flawed history lessons to do same.

I have said the main thing many pages ago. We can argue from now till page 100 but no Igbo man will ever agree that Ijaw people deserve what they ask for. The gist can jump from ownership of PH to language to slave trade to Igbo migrants that have assimilated with the local Ijaws but kept a bit of their heritage. You know very well your own stance on this issue and try as you can to be diplomatic, when the truth is thrown in your face, you begin to sound like Dede1.

ow11:

I have said the main thing many pages ago. We can argue from now till page 100 but no Igbo man will ever agree that Ijaw people deserve what they ask for. The gist can jump from ownership of PH to language to slave trade to Igbo migrants that have assimilated with the local Ijaws but kept a bit of their heritage. You know very well your own stance on this issue and try as you can to be diplomatic, when the truth is thrown in your face, you begin to sound like Dede1.

Truth
What truth are you talking about? The one about Umuokirika, Nwokirika, or Wokirika; or is it the one about Ama---- Amaigbo, Ama-Hausa, Ameze; or could it be the one about who has the property title to the city of Port Harcourt?
To be honest, dealing with you and Ibime has shown me the difficult road ahead for eastern Nigeria. Even if your hatred for Igbos is based on the reasons you've made so far, I can't even understand the mindset of people walking around thinking the country, state, or other tribes owe them something. Granted we're a country where dividing the national cake has become a fulltime pre-occupation, I have never seen that concept taken to maddening heights. If you think about how to improve your city and people for once, then you'd appreciate the Igbos, Efiks, and others.

If you're not focusing your attention on taking somebody's else house as abandoned property, maybe you would have time to build your own.
If you're not focusing your attention on owing the whole of Port Harcout city, maybe you'd time to think of ways of making it better, bigger and safer
If you're not focusing your attention on lands and property that doesn't belong to you, maybe you and your children will actually focus on working hard to acquire one.
If you're not focusing your attention on a small piece of national cake that should have been wholly yours, maybe you should be focusing on the big picture.

You're small, and will remain small, because you think small.

COSIGN @ "You're small, and will remain small, because you think small."

Their mindset is the main reason why its hard to bridge any gap btwn the two groups.
Have u noticed that some how the ones that fought bitterly against Biafra / East are worse off than the ones who fought for it? Its seems pointless sometimes engaging their likes n a discussion coz their mindset is so different.