If God freely offers a gift (salvation) to ALL men but denies most the ability (faith) to receive this gift, the offer is not genuine, and it was never available for all.

The doctrine of perseverance which is derived from the idea of individual election, is incompatible with a belief in availability of salvation for ALL

vooks:

God gave opportunities to ALL


By saying it's no determinant I mean there is salvation outside the Law just as there is condemnation. What do you think happens to those who never heard of Torah?


The most important thing is there is salvation outside the Law, and I don't mean those who lived before the Law, I mean those who lived during the Law but outside Israel

Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no man can access the Father except through Him. So can you quote any scripture that says there is salvation outside the Law? Who are those gentile folks that were SAVED during the Law? An example will help me grasp your point.

God is no respecter of persons. If he respects some persons over others, then Peter is clearly deluded
Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him
You need to read this verse severally and let the truth sink; God has no favorites NOW

Peter meant the gentiles, you also need to read the Pauline epistles severally so the truth can sink in too. Cornelius was the catalyst God used to launch His salvation purposes to gentile nations which Paul later strongly walked in. Peter never had any insight into this mystery. It was Paul. In fact it was a huge challenge for Peter to move outside his culture,tradition and mindset in order to reach a gentile hence the exclamation you quoted indeed God is no respecter of Jews. Hear Paul when the Jews were spoiling his work to gentile nations.

“ Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.” (2 Corinthians 11:22 AV)



Christ is “the firstborn over all creation because by Him everything was created.” Christ is supreme over all creation because he created all things, so it is not out of place to say the OT saints i quoted earlier were IN Christ. This is election by grace.

The point remains...election is corporate and conditional not arbitrary and individual. Join Christ and you are Elect, stay outside and you are a reprobate

Election is unconditional.God elected some men before the world began (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9). Your faith, baptism, or any good works are the evidence and result of salvation, not conditions for it.Justification, the forgiveness of sins, and eternal life are by the obedience of one – Jesus Christ.

God preferring Jacob over Essau was simply for rolling out His plans. He never condemned one to hell while saving the other. Just like He made Paul an apostle to the Gentiles and Peter to the Jews

So what was the role of Esau? or what plans God had for him?

lemme cite some scripture to convince you the more.

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10)


He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (Ephesians 1:5)


also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11)

Hear what Jesus even told his disciples on the foreknowledge of the Father.

Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father." (Matthew 20:23)

ABDULADINO:
Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no man can access the Father except through Him. So can you quote any scripture that says there is salvation outside the Law? Who are those gentile folks that were SAVED during the Law? An example will help me grasp your point.

Romans 2:12 (KJV)
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law

Peter meant the gentiles, you also need to read the Pauline epistles severally so the truth can sink in too. Cornelius was the catalyst God used to launch His salvation purposes to gentile nations which Paul later strongly walked in. Peter never had any insight into this mystery. It was Paul. In fact it was a huge challenge for Peter to move outside his culture,tradition and mindset in order to reach a gentile hence the exclamation you quoted indeed God is no respecter of Jews. Hear Paul when the Jews were spoiling his work to gentile nations.

Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him
Not respecting persons means He subjects them to the same treatment

Christ is “the firstborn over all creation because by Him everything was created.” Christ is supreme over all creation because he created all things, so it is not out of place to say the OT saints i quoted earlier were IN Christ. This is election by grace.

Amateur exegesis. Lucifer too is in Christ because he was created by God

Election is unconditional.God elected some men before the world began (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9). Your faith, baptism, or any good works are the evidence and result of salvation, not conditions for it.Justification, the forgiveness of sins, and eternal life are by the obedience of one – Jesus Christ.

The Body of Christ is the Elect. Join the Body and you are Elect. The conditions for Election were set before the foundation, just as Christ was slain before the foundation

So what was the role of Esau? or what plans God had for him?

Serve his brother

lemme cite some scripture to convince you the more.

For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus [size=18pt]to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do[/size](Ephesians 2:10)

What was prepared in advance is the good works not the doers

He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- (Ephesians 1:5)

THROUGH JESUS. All in Christ are adopted as His sons

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11)

God predestinated the Body of Christ, not handpicking some lucky Elite believers. Join the body and you are predestinated

Hear what Jesus even told his disciples on the foreknowledge of the Father.

Jesus said to them, "You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father." (Matthew 20:23)

Be wise. God preparing places for some is not handpicking some lucky any more than preparing hell for Satan and his angels is CAUSING Satan to rebel
Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

In any case, God's knowledge of future events is not the same as orchestrating them. One can say God foreknew Adam's fall. It is another matter to charge Him with causing it on this basis

vooks:

Romans 2:12 (KJV)
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law

Where is the salvation here?Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no man can access the Father except through Him. So can you quote any scripture that says there is salvation outside the Law? Who are those gentile folks that were SAVED during the Law?

Acts 10:34-35 (KJV)
Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him
Not respecting persons means He subjects them to the same treatment

Cornelius salvation was not dependent on his works, try another yarn.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJ)

Amateur exegesis. Lucifer too is in Christ because he was created by God

The lamb slain from the foundation of the world was for mankind not angels.

The Body of Christ is the Elect. Join the Body and you are Elect. The conditions for Election were set before the foundation, just as Christ was slain before the foundation

I can empathize with your inadequacies and your inability to explain (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9).

Serve his brother

Serve his brother for what purpose.

What was prepared in advance is the good works not the doers cheesy

The catch is created in Christ for without Him we can do nothing.

God predestination the Body of Christ, not handpicking some lucky Elite believers

Take note of the aorist tenses. neglect at your peril.

Be wise. God preparing places for some is not handpicking some lucky any more than preparing hell for Satan and his angels is CAUSING Satan to rebel
Matthew 25:41 (KJV)
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

In any case, God's knowledge of future events is not the same as orchestrating them. One can say God foreknew Adam's fall. It is another matter to charge Him with causing it on this basis cool

The point is that the will of God will be done either way.God is all-knowing and all-powerful. He knows what we will do because he knows all things. He cannot not know all things.

ABDULADINO:
Where is the salvation here?Jesus said He is the way the truth and the life, no man can access the Father except through Him. So can you quote any scripture that says there is salvation outside the Law? Who are those gentile folks that were SAVED during the Law?

You are playing dumb.
Explain to me that verse, and more importantly the fate of your great great great great grandfather who never heard about Sinai nor Calvary

Cornelius salvation was not dependent on his works, try another yarn.

God is no respecter of persons and he treats all alike. That is the point you can't confront; equality of all before God

[i]Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (

Salvation is 110% a gift. Nobody can boast nor complain after rejecting it seeing it is offered to ALL.

The lamb slain from the foundation of the world was for mankind not angels.

Yes, for mankind...ALL and not just a few Elect.

I can empathize with your inadequacies and your inability to explain (Eph 1:3-6; II Tim 1:9).

You can't shake off indoctrination over a forum. It takes prayers

Serve his brother for what purpose.

The very purpose he was created for

The catch is created in Christ for without Him we can do nothing.

IN Christ. Only IN Christ do you find Election. Christ is the condition for election

Take note of the aorist tenses. neglect at your peril.

Amateur theologians think commentaries and new vocabularies make scholars. Pathetic

The point is that the will of God will be done either way.

Nonsense. What was His will when he instructed Adam not to eat the fruit?

God is all-knowing and all-powerful.

True

He knows what we will do because he knows all things.

Mmmh

He cannot not know all things.

The all-knowing who cannot know all things.

vooks:

You are playing dumb.
Explain to me that verse, and more importantly the fate of your great great great great grandfather who never heard about Sinai nor Calvary


God is no respecter of persons and he treats all alike. That is the point you can't confront; equality of all before God


Salvation is 110% a gift. Nobody can boast nor complain after rejecting it seeing it is offered to ALL.


Yes, for mankind...ALL and not just a few Elect.


You can't shake off indoctrination over a forum. It takes prayers


The very purpose he was created for


IN Christ. Only IN Christ do you find Election. Christ is the condition for election


Amateur theologians think commentaries and new vocabularies make scholars. Pathetic

Nonsense. What was His will when he instructed Adam not to eat the fruit?

True

Mmmh

The all-knowing who cannot know all things.

The skeptic doesn't get it.. The Romans 2:12 he quoted shows the phrase "all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law" referring to anybody who has ever sinned at any time...and those WHO SIN without the law will perish...it never said they are saved...One wonders where he got the concept of salvation from that passage...since Paul had made it clear ALL HAVE SINNED..In other words, if you choose to live under the law you will be condemned by it! Personally i prefer living under the grace of God given through faith in Jesus Christ.

The eternal security skeptics are welcome to live under the law if they want.

ABDULADINO:
The skeptic doesn't get it.. The Romans 2:12 he quoted shows the phrase "all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law" referring to anybody who has ever sinned at any time...and those WHO SIN without the law will perish...it never said they are saved...One wonders where he got the concept of salvation from that passage...since Paul had made it clear ALL HAVE SINNED..

Amateur theologian,
It took you hours of googling to fish this flimsy excuse?
Now, think for a second.
1.Did everyone under the Law go to hell because all are sinners?
2. Did everyone (like your great great great grandfather) without the Law go to hell because all are sinners?

In other words, if you choose to live under the law you will be condemned by it! Personally i prefer living under the grace of God given through faith in Jesus Christ.

Perish personal preferences, the Truth is objective

The eternal security skeptics are welcome to live under the law if they want.

You will be in good company in hell with other deluded folks who Jesus denies ever knowing them despite them prophesying and working wonders in his name. Reason? They worked iniquities

jiggaz:
It is you that Jesus will spit out of his mouth!!!! You this deluded self righteous Pharisee!!!!

God bless you

What gives u the right to know who will make Heaven or not??

The Word of God. Workers of iniquity have no place in heaven. They are children of wrath
Luke 13:27 (KJV)
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity

Look lemme tell you, if not for the GRACE of God, this your self righteousness ( which is a filthy rag before God ) will not take you anywhere. It is written in the Bible that Salvation is by Grace through faith, and it is the work of God lest any man should boast.

Salvation is by grace THROUGH faith.
Faith is the condition for your salvation
Faith is not salvation, it is the CONDITION for your salvation
Here
Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

I pity you, so you think that The death of CHRIST on the Cross is not enough so you can add your filthy Self Righteousness to make up for your Salvation?

Since the death of Jesus is 'enough' why are not all men saved merely because Jesus died and rose again?

God calls it PRIDE!!!! Abraham was counted as a man of righteousness because of his FAITH in God alone, not by his WORKS.

Why is wrought by faith is kept by faith.
Here;
John 15:6 (KJV)
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If you are not comforted by Eternal Security, plz go ahead with your WORKS but don't try to deceive other people into it.

I don't want false hopes to comfort me, I want the Truth

That's why your kind live depressed lives full of condemnation and guilt , that is your own wahala. I have comfort that my righteousness is the righteousness of CHRIST by FAITH.

ABIDE in Christ or you will be cast away and burned in fire

Nobody can snatch me out of the hand of the father & son, not you or your Religious / Judaism doctrine......

But like the prodigal son, you can walk away from all that

You can argue with the Birds, i am through with you. And please don't quote me AGAIN!!!!!

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (KJV)
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

vooks:

Amateur theologian,
It took you hours of googling to fish this flimsy excuse?
Now, think for a second.
1.Did everyone under the Law go to hell because all are sinners?

Irrelevant..one man sin condemned ALL. Romans 5:12.

Guess someone is not reading his bible properly.

ABDULADINO:
The skeptic doesn't get it.. The Romans 2:12 he quoted shows the phrase "all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law" referring to anybody who has ever sinned at any time...and those WHO SIN without the law will perish...it never said they are saved...One wonders where he got the concept of salvation from that passage...since Paul had made it clear ALL HAVE SINNED..In other words, if you choose to live under the law you will be condemned by it! Personally i prefer living under the grace of God given through faith in Jesus Christ.

The eternal security skeptics are welcome to live under the law if they want.

Thanks. I got some insight on that verse today. Vooks seems to be implying that those who sinned " without the law" shall be judged "without the law" and some of them will "pass".

ABDULADINO:
Irrelevant..one man sin condemned ALL. Romans 5:12.

Guess someone is not reading his bible properly.

What is the fate of the many who never heard of Sinai nor Calvary like your great great great grandfather?

5solas:

Thanks. I got some insight on that verse today. Vooks seems to be implying that those who sinned " without the law" shall be judged "without the law" and some of them will "pass".

What is the fate of the many who never heard of Sinai nor Calvary like your great great great grandfather?

ABDULADINO,5solas
Could you please share with me on the fate of the stillborn or those who dies shortly after birth?
Are they equally condemned?

vooks:

What is the fate of the many who never heard of Sinai nor Calvary like your great great great grandfather?

vooks:
ABDULADINO,5solas
Could you please share with me on the fate of the stillborn or those who dies shortly after birth?
Are they equally condemned?

When you are able to grasp the simple, basic things of the faith, then and only then, would we go on to the harder ones.
For now, you need milk and not strong meat.

vooks:
If God freely offers a gift (salvation) to ALL men but denies most the ability (faith) to receive this gift, the offer is not genuine, and it was never available for all.

The doctrine of perseverance which is derived from the idea of individual election, is incompatible with a belief in availability of salvation for ALL

The gospel is offensive by nature, go and learn what Christ meant when He said:

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.
27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
29 And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.
30 But he passing through the midst of them went his way,

Luke 4

vooks:
Some amateur theoreticians need to brush up their understanding of ELECTION and PREDESTINATION. By God's grace I will share on these two later in the day

Gladly waiting.

5solas:


When you are able to grasp the simple, basic things of the faith, then and only then, would we go on to the harder ones.
For now, you need milk and not strong meat.

You can't answer because it is embarrassing. You are ashamed of your beliefs

ABDULADINO,5solas
Could you please share with me on the fate of the stillborn or those who dies shortly after birth?
Are they equally condemned?

5solas:

The gospel is offensive by nature, go and learn what Christ meant when He said:
Luke 4

A gift freely offered to all but with only a bunch enabled to receive it is not genuine

5solas:

Gladly waiting.

Me sef dey wait.

vooks:
ABDULADINO,5solas
Could you please share with me on the fate of the stillborn or those who dies shortly after birth?
Are they equally condemned?

A human rationalization that is comforting to the flesh rather than God's own revelation. I won't take you serious since you deny original sin.

ABDULADINO:
Me sef dey wait.

Scholar8200:

When you say grace is a Favour can you expantiate:

1. Do you mean its a permission or a Power?
2. Is it only a writing off of old debts with an invite to freely incur new ones or that and an empowerment to ensure that debt will be an exception that evokes concern, not a norm?
3. Establish your description of grace as favour from the Bible.
4. If possible give types from the OT and/or parables in the NT that illustrate your definition of Grace.

I had given examples of display of grace from the Bible. The typical example being:
- The Good Samaritan Lk. 10:30-35


The emphasis in grace is on the giver. 
Grace as favour means an act of kindness. 

The Good Samaritan did not expect the man he helped to pay him back in some way for the favour he did him.
The man helped in the story cannot reverse the grace extended to him. 
The favour done was not dependent on the goodness of the man or the ability of the man to repay the favour in future. 
The only motive of the Good Samaritan was from himself - his free heartedness, not on any external consideration. 

God's grace is TOTALLY dependent on Him - the Giver rather than the receiver. God's grace is totally based on His integrity.

ABDULADINO:
A human rationalization that is comforting to the flesh rather than God's own revelation. I won't take you serious since you deny original sin.

You can't answer a straight question.

Let's try again
Could you please share with me on the fate of the stillborn or those who dies shortly after birth?
Are they equally condemned?

Now you inject 'original sin'. Please demonstrate from scriptures 'original sin'

trustman:

I had given examples of display of grace from the Bible. The typical example being:
- The Good Samaritan Lk. 10:30-35


The emphasis in grace is on the giver. 
Grace as favour means an act of kindness. 

The Good Samaritan did not expect the man he helped to pay him back in some way for the favour he did him.
The man helped in the story cannot reverse the grace extended to him. 
The favour done was not dependent on the goodness of the man or the ability of the man to repay the favour in future. 
The only motive of the Good Samaritan was from himself - his free heartedness, not on any external consideration. 

God's grace is TOTALLY dependent on Him - the Giver rather than the receiver. God's grace is totally based on His integrity. 

trustman,
I have no problem with your eloquence but please could you briefly explain to me why despite God outpouring grace through the cross men still perish?

trustman:

I had given examples of display of grace from the Bible. The typical example being:
- The Good Samaritan Lk. 10:30-35


The emphasis in grace is on the giver. 
Grace as favour means an act of kindness. 

The Good Samaritan did not expect the man he helped to pay him back in some way for the favour he did him.
The man helped in the story cannot reverse the grace extended to him. 
The favour done was not dependent on the goodness of the man or the ability of the man to repay the favour in future. 
The only motive of the Good Samaritan was from himself - his free heartedness, not on any external consideration. 

God's grace is TOTALLY dependent on Him - the Giver rather than the receiver. God's grace is totally based on His integrity. 

Outstanding!

vooks:

trustman,
I have no problem with your eloquence but please could you briefly explain to me why despite God outpouring grace through the cross men still perish?

If I understand your question, you mean why do the unbelievers end up eternally separated from God in spite of the cross?

Like I think you've noted on this thread which I want to rephrase : The sovereignty of God and the freewill of man coexists. 

When any man therefore uses his freewill to reject (refuses to accept) God's unlimited atonement expressed by His outpouring grace through the cross, such a one will end up perishing.

trustman:

I had given examples of display of grace from the Bible. The typical example being:
- The Good Samaritan Lk. 10:30-35

Could you give another?
The man that was attacked in that parable had no choice in accepting or rejecting the good samaritan and no offer was made, hence we cannot use this alone as an illustration! Otherwise, for Mark 16: 15,16 is a superfluous statement meaning the whole world is automatically saved!!!

I believe the prodigal son illustrates it better! A prodigal world is dead as long as it is severed from the Father and the only hope is to humble itself and, believing in the Father's mercy, take the only Way (Jesus is the Way) back to the Father! And when he gets to the Father's house, he doesnt remain in tattered clothes of sin; he exchanges the old for the new and that newness is visible to all! At that point, the thought of returning to the riotous life in the far country becomes repulsive even to him!!! That is Grace. But if he, on the day he was welcomed home begins to think," I can always return to the far country; the Father will always accept me back!" We will agree that something is wrong!

The emphasis in grace is on the giver. 
Grace as favour means an act of kindness. 

Please substantiate that definition from scripture! Meanwhile the Gift must be received or rejected by the receiver! Else why the command to go into all the world with the Gospel of grace?

The Good Samaritan did not expect the man he helped to pay him back in some way for the favour he did him.

Indeed! May I remind you that this was a parable to illustrate , "love thy neighbour as thyself" hence there is a limit to which we can eke out Divine-human relationship principles!

The man helped in the story cannot reverse the grace extended to him.

He had no choice then hence this does not illustrate salvation through grace! Grace that brings salvation must be received by faith and repentance (Mark 1:15) to be effectual in the receiver. Afterwards, the receiver stands in the grace by faith 2 Corinth 1:24b; and must persevers in that faith to the end!

 
God's grace is TOTALLY dependent on Him - the Giver rather than the receiver. God's grace is totally based on His integrity. 

But the Giver cannot force His Gift on the receiver?! The receiver needs to humble himself in true repentance and , by faith, receive the Gift! When this is done, he does not remain the same.

trustman:

If I understand your question, you mean why do the unbelievers end up eternally separated from God in spite of the cross?

Like I think you've noted on this thread which I want to rephrase : The sovereignty of God and the freewill of man coexists. 

When any man therefore uses his freewill to reject (refuses to accept) God's unlimited atonement expressed by His outpouring grace through the cross, such a one will end up perishing. 

Thank you.
If God unilaterally appoints some individuals to salvation, then clearly there is no freewill there.
Individual Election is no sovereignty and freewill operating but sovereignty overriding freewill. Further, if outside the Elect nobody is capable of accepting the unlimited atonement, then the offer of unlimited atonement was NEVER available for them. So it is a contradiction to speak of 'unlimited' when it is essentially LIMITED to a few.

The whole point is,you can't cling to anything other than the 5 points of Calvinism as they are interrelated. Once you do, you must develop a thick skin impervious to glaring contradictions.

There is no Total Depravity if men can choose to accept/reject Calvary
There is no Unconditional election if salvation is pegged on man's acceptance of Calvary
There is no Limited atonement with unlimited atonement
There is no Irresistible grace if some can resist it
There is no Perseverance if there is no unconditional election

vooks:

Thank you.
If God unilaterally appoints some individuals to salvation, then clearly there is no freewill there.
Individual Election is no sovereignty and freewill operating but sovereignty overriding freewill. Further, if outside the Elect nobody is capable of accepting the unlimited atonement, then the offer of unlimited atonement was NEVER available for them. So it is a contradiction to speak of 'unlimited' when it is essentially LIMITED to a few.

The whole point is,you can't cling to anything other than the 5 points of Calvinism as they are interrelated. Once you do, you must develop a thick skin impervious to glaring contradictions.

There is no Total Depravity if men can choose to accept/reject Calvary
There is no Unconditional election if salvation is pegged on man's acceptance of Calvary
There is no Limited atonement with unlimited atonement
There is no Irresistible grace if some can resist it
There is no Perseverance if there is no unconditional election

You haven't seen me say anything here about 'TULIP' have you? 

I believe God provided salvation for ALL. - 1 John 2:2, John 3:16 ('whosoever' is here referring to choice - freewill). 

Like I said earlier, because of unlimited atonement, sin is removed as the basis for eternal condemnation.

trustman:
[size=6pt][/size]


Like I said earlier, because of unlimited atonement, sin is removed as the basis for eternal condemnation. 

That is not the Bible sir!
Revelations 21:8,27, 1 Corinth 6:9-11, Ephesians 5:5-7, 1 John 5:16 etc refutes your position

trustman:
[size=6pt][/size]

You haven't seen me say anything here about 'TULIP' have you? 

I believe God provided salvation for ALL. - 1 John 2:2, John 3:16 ('whosoever' is here referring to choice - freewill). 

Like I said earlier, because of unlimited atonement, sin is removed as the basis for eternal condemnation. 

Thank you trustman.
Briefly explain to me your understanding of Election and I will drive the point home