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Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by Aderoy(m): 9:37am On May 19, 2009
FBS:

but the F1 chief says no back down on the budget cap. What happens then?

@Aderoy, going by your analysis, are we to say conclude that it is not JB that is a good driver but rather the car he is driving? Formula 1 is about cars and drivers and you cannot seperate the 2 but the moment one single car has an advantage over others then it is no longer a competition. Where is the leverage? All that is left is for them to do the catch up.

F1 is degrading itself and honestly, I think a lot of people are getting really annoyed not only by the way things are currently going. . .the stupid rules dont even help matters.

Everyone wants to see competitive cars driven by competitive drivers and not what we are seeing now. One good look at how these Brawn Mercedes cars perform at the curves and turns and you will see what I'm saying.

No, this is no fault of BM (they simply took advantage of what other ignored) but then, this is a sport and there should be a leverage.



@ FBS,

I totally understand you point of view.

Ordinarily we coudl assume that the 2 cars within the same team should be exatly the same. YES, they are, but no they do not perform in the same way.  Take a look at the 2 Brawn's car for example, both Jenson Button and Reuben's Barrichelo (I hope I spelt that correctly) have independent Engineers who work on the respective cars (same as with any other teams in F1). So there are bound to be little tweaks here and there based on what the driver's Engineer feel is the optimum set-up for his driver. Do not forget also that the set-up tweaking take into account little details such as the predicted track temperature, surface tarmac type, high speed corners, long straights and driver's body weight (which should either be compensated for by adding/removing bits {e.g. appendages, side-pods or less fuel per mile} to the car).   

A driver has to find that sweet romance with his car such that he becomes another bit in a super-bit of the car. If we cast our minds back to the team testing prior to the commencement of the season, Jenson played 2nd fiddle to Reuben on many occasion coz Reuben's somehow found a sweet optimum set-up on all occassion.  The tide changed during the course of the season; Jenson has been able to find, on each occasion, that optimum set-up for his car (kudos to his Engineer and racing strategist). 

I agree with you there should be a leverage, but the competition is all about finding that advantage that gives you the edge over other teams.  If we are to take the diffuser brouhaha out of the whole scenario for once, one team that could potentially beat every other team this season is RED BULL. They had a totally different aerodynamic design (in terms of the skeletal structure of the car) from every other teams making use of a central rod system, so watch out - even if other teams successfully deploy diffusers, Red Bull may not be able include it on theirs coz their revolutionary design would not allow incorporation of the diffuser column.   

Despite the point of having a leverage for each team, Formula 1 is all about finding that extra advantage over other teams. Ferrari and McLaren have always been extra good at this because they are the big spenders  in the sport. Even if both teams (Ferrari and McLaren) produce "crap cars", they are able to spend their way out of trouble during the course of the season with addition of clever bits and bobs like appendages, side pods, clever wings aero-package etc. With the new rules, it's like saying no big spenders should bamboozle other teams using fat wallets.  So the only way to get the needed advantage over others is to use technology within the confines of the rules (which IMO Brawn had a head start with his research in the wind tunnel while others were fighting for the 2008 title).  So the leverage was there in the first place, but Brawn saw advantage in what others ignored and he plugged into that tiny loophole while others (e.g. BMW and Ferrari) were shouting him down.

IMO, I would like an upward review of the budget cap coz I think the £40million cap (which was earlier £30million) is ridiculous. There shouldn't be a 2 tier system either.  But one thing I do agree with his the idea of capping but I wanna see the teams participating in the decision making to decide what is an appropriate capped amount.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 10:02am On May 19, 2009
Aderoy, you are spot on on most issues and I was just about to mention RedBull. During the Barhain GP (I think), there was a way the RedBull car overtook LH (Maclaren) at a sharp turn and then sped away and I heard LH talking on his team radio that his car is just not competitive enough (something with the gear box or so). It was as if the McLaren car was crawling.

Agreed tweaking is allowed but again, if you look at it, in F1 you want to see driver competing, maneuvering and showing their skills as PILOTs. With the Brawn Mercedes, I cant say JB has done anything extraordinary as opposed to the likes of MS, LH et all.

If previous seasons went down to the wire, this season is already a forgone conclusion. And what that means is that, if by next season, another team find another "loophole" and tweaks it, they will become champions even before it starts. Is this in the interest of the sport?
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by Aderoy(m): 10:19am On May 19, 2009
FBS:

Aderoy, you are spot on on most issues and I was just about to mention RedBull. During the Barhain GP (I think), there was a way the RedBull car overtook LH (Maclaren) at a sharp turn and then sped away and I heard LH talking on his team radio that his car is just not competitive enough (something with the gear box or so). It was as if the McLaren car was crawling.

Agreed tweaking is allowed but again, if you look at it, in F1 you want to see driver competing, maneuvering and showing their skills as PILOTs. With the Brawn Mercedes, I cant say JB has done anything extraordinary as opposed to the likes of MS, LH et all.

If previous seasons went down to the wire, this season is already a forgone conclusion. And what that means is that, if by next season, another team find another "loophole" and tweaks it, they will become champions even before it starts. Is this in the interest of the sport?

@FBS,

I must admit I had my heart (plus my liver, kidney et.al.   grin) in my mouth on the last race of 2008 season. That's what the sport should be about  - the excitment, the frills and thrils, the unexpected, strategies (like a chess game), fast manouvre (like a fighter jet pilot) etc. 

Like I mentioned in my earlier post my allegiance is with McLaren but then again I would like to see how good they are in crisis management and how they work their a*se out of diffcult situation as the season progresses.  Lewis Hamilton has shown he's up to the task and can squize a bit more out of his car (even if it's crap car), But as a team, I would love to see them getting back to the front of the role (a good wish).  Yes, other teams will most likely play catch up throughout the seasn but I do NOT rule out a good fight from Toyota and Red Bull as the season progresses.  To be honest I would like to see Mark Webber (of Red Bull) win at least 3 races (out of sympathy for him though), the guy don try nah, with a broken right leg just b4 the season kicks off and was still able to get his a*se in the cockpit.  Overall I wana see competitive formula 1 season, That wouldn't happen if other teams keep whining about Brawn's diffuser, would it?
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 6:50am On May 20, 2009
Aderoy:


@FBS,

I must admit I had my heart (plus my liver, kidney et.al.   grin) in my mouth on the last race of 2008 season. That's what the sport should be about  - the excitment, the frills and thrils, the unexpected, strategies (like a chess game), fast manouvre (like a fighter jet pilot) etc. 

Like I mentioned in my earlier post my allegiance is with McLaren but then again I would like to see how good they are in crisis management and how they work their a*se out of diffcult situation as the season progresses.  Lewis Hamilton has shown he's up to the task and can squize a bit more out of his car (even if it's crap car), But as a team, I would love to see them getting back to the front of the role (a good wish).  Yes, other teams will most likely play catch up throughout the seasn but I do NOT rule out a good fight from Toyota and Red Bull as the season progresses.  To be honest I would like to see Mark Webber (of Red Bull) win at least 3 races (out of sympathy for him though), the guy don try nah, with a broken right leg just b4 the season kicks off and was still able to get his a*se in the cockpit.  Overall I wana see competitive formula 1 season, That wouldn't happen if other teams keep whining about Brawn's diffuser, would it?
This is exactly my point and I'm happy you understand that there will be no thrills and excitements (except for the Brawn M team of course cheesy ) if things continue this way. It wont happen because other teams will continue to point fingers at the BM team.
Well, maybe like you said, MacLaren and others will come-up with a suprise and surge forward. But first they have to try. Problem is, they are NOT. I dont know why Ron Dennis left. Me thinks he had a better grip on things.

Mark webber has been fantastic. Now what I'm not sure about is what is giving him a edge over others. Is it the RB car or he is just a fantastic pilot. wink

Last season was a nerve wrenching final. I played it over and over again and even up till now, it gives me goose bumps cool. That is what I want to see.

Btw, I support LH and the MacLaren Mercedes Team. So that makes the 2 of us.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by Aderoy(m): 9:32am On May 20, 2009
FBS:

This is exactly my point and I'm happy you understand that there will be no thrills and excitements (except for the Brawn M team of course cheesy ) if things continue this way. It wont happen because other teams will continue to point fingers at the BM team.
Well, maybe like you said, MacLaren and others will come-up with a suprise and surge forward. But first they have to try. Problem is, they are NOT. I dont know why Ron Dennis left. Me thinks he had a better grip on things.

Mark webber has been fantastic. Now what I'm not sure about is what is giving him a edge over others. Is it the RB car or he is just a fantastic pilot. wink

Last season was a nerve wrenching final. I played it over and over again and even up till now, it gives me goose bumps cool. That is what I want to see.

Btw, I support LH and the MacLaren Mercedes Team. So that makes the 2 of us.


@ FBS
Hmm. Ron Dennis leaving McLaren Mercedes Formula 1 team is a political card played by the McLaren Group to straighten things up.  From the information I gathered so far, I learnt he's the type who wouldn't take shit from anybody and he's always at loggerhead with Mac Mosley (the FIA president) on most things.  McLaren Group (which also runs the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes formula 1 team) decided to move Ron to another department of the group (nothing to do with formula 1) in Woking, UK.

The gamble to replace Ron with Martin Whitmarsh played out really well, as Martin brought in sweeping changes and policies to convince FIA that they've turned from being a "bad boy" to becoming a "good boy",  If you could remember McLaren got off the hook at the World Supreme Council for Sports lightly without being punished for the lies they told stewards that they didn't instruct LH to let another driver (was it Jano Truli?) past him during the Malaysia grand prix.

Mark Webber - I still think it's the car coupled with the "magic strategy wand" waved by his Engineers. Do not take anything away from him though, he's been around long enough to understand the sport (but not as old as Reuben Barichelo) and would seize every opportunity that comes his way.  But the RedBull '09 car is superfast and very much competing with the Brawns.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 5:53pm On May 21, 2009
Williams' Nico Rosberg set the day's fastest lap in the second Monaco Grand Prix practice session as Brawn's Rubens Barrichello went quickest in the first.

McLaren's world champion Lewis Hamilton showed some aggressive driving to post top-three lap times in both sessions.

Barrichello was also third in the second session, just ahead of team-mate and championship leader Jenson Button.

Sebastian Vettel's Red Bull and Robert Kubica's BMW Sauber suffered engine problems on day one in Monte Carlo.

Hamilton's time of one minute 15.445 seconds in the second session was the second fastest of the day - beaten only by Germany's Rosberg with 1:15.243 - and it marked a promising showing for the 24-year-old in a season where he has largely struggled for pace.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8061088.stm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by cold(m): 4:04am On May 22, 2009
I see Louis Hamilton gracing the platform in the nxt Grand Prix.Place ur bets here.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by mamba74(m): 7:57am On May 24, 2009
I doubt much, I know he has d ability but not in dis s**** car and not from the back of the grid after a gearbox change. I know he achieved it last season, but dis is a different season where d brawn boyz rules!!! (FYI i'm VMM all d way).

I will love to hear Adejoy's + FBS' predictions cuz my fantasy F1 team really sucks dis season, and i may need to to get some solid preds, lol
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 6:13pm On May 24, 2009
There can't be predictions 'cos like I said earlier the F1 season is as good as over unless something extraordinary happens.
A driver gets an exceptional car and all of a sudden he is topping the charts. I ask myself, where was he all these years?
There is simply no leverage. Brawn GP is way out of every other teams league at least for this season.
Aderoy, over to you.  wink

Button wins for the 5th time this season in six races. I would have said brilliant performance but I won't. 
 
Jenson Button extended his championship lead with a fifth victory in six races as he led Rubens Barrichello to a Brawn one-two in the Monaco Grand Prix.

Button sealed his victory in the early stages of the race, when he managed the deteriorating tyres on his car far better than his Brazilian team-mate.

Barrichello was left to hold off the Ferraris of Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa, who finished third and fourth.

Red Bull's Mark Webber was fifth with world champion Lewis Hamilton 12th.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8065824.stm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by A40(m): 2:08am On May 25, 2009
This season is done and dusted in my opinion those Brawn cars are simply on steroids i would not attribute it to Jensen Button at all i have watched him drive in the F1 for donkey years thankfully Ferrari is finally getting some points on the scoreboard they should go and prepare for next season because this one has been embarassing
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 7:38am On May 25, 2009
A-40:

This season is done and dusted in my opinion those Brawn cars are simply on steroids i would not attribute it to Jensen Button at all i have watched him drive in the F1 for donkey years thankfully Ferrari is finally getting some points on the scoreboard they should go and prepare for next season because this one has been embarassing
Precisely my point but then again even if these BM cars are jets instead of cars grin, MacLaren Mercedes & Ferrari should be placed right after them. What we see now is very far from it. Well, if you dont take yesterday's Ferrari performance into consideration. That might be a fluke of a performance IMHO.

World champion Lewis Hamilton says he will continue to struggle to get near this season's front-runners because his McLaren cannot yet truly compete.

Hamilton was "quite satisfied" after coming from the back of the grid to finish 12th at the Monaco Grand Prix.

But he fears a much tougher task in future races because of the car's failings through high-speed corners.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8066342.stm


I have been hammering on this issue since day 1 'cos both Brawn and RedBull are powerful in this area and will rule this season except if something extraordinary happens.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by Phony200(m): 11:23am On May 25, 2009
FBS:

Precisely my point but then again even if these BM cars are jets instead of cars grin, MacLaren Mercedes & Ferrari should be placed right after them. What we see now is very far from it. Well, if you dont take yesterday's Ferrari performance into consideration. That might be a fluke of a performance IMHO.


I have been hammering on this issue since day 1 'cos both Brawn and RedBull are powerful in this area and will rule this season except if something extraordinary happens.

Nothing extraordinary will happen IMHO. Brawn will win both the drivers and constructions, Hamilton will get lapped every race grin by Mr Button and the feraris will score points every other race. I think it's now a victory procession.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 8:31am On Jun 08, 2009
Brawn's Jenson Button coasted to a comfortable sixth win in seven races as he capitalised fully on Sebastian
Vettel's first-lap error in Turkey.

The championship leader got past pole-sitter Vettel when the Red Bull ran wide on the exit of Turn Nine and the Englishman dominated from then onwards.

Vettel finished third behind team-mate Mark Webber while Toyota's Jarno Trulli drove solidly to end up fourth.

McLaren's world champion Lewis Hamilton battled hard to finish in 13th.

Williams's Nico Rosberg had his best finish of the season in fifth place, while Ferrari's Felipe Massa, BMW Sauber's Robert Kubica and Toyota's Timo Glock filled the remaining points places down to eighth
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8087873.stm

Its a 2 horse race. Brawn Mercedes and RedBull. Others can keep on tweaking and hoping for a miracle.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by Phony200(m): 7:56am On Jun 09, 2009
@FBS
If you call this year's GP a 2-way race, it's definitely not 2 horses. It's more like 1 horse, 1 donkey
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 9:47am On Jun 09, 2009
Phony200:

@FBS
If you call this year's GP a 2-way race, it's definitely not 2 horses. It's more like 1 horse, 1 donkey
You could be right but I tell you, the Redbull cars are giving Brawn Mercedes a run for their money. Check the standing with 10 races left: If They (Redbull) can perform without silly mistakes like those made in Turkey then we might indeed have a 2 horse race.

Pos            Driver                            Nationality               Team                      Points
1             Jenson Button                   British                       Brawn-Mercedes      61
2             Rubens Barrichello              Brazilian                    Brawn-Mercedes      35
3             Sebastian Vettel                German                    RBR-Renault             29
4             Mark Webber                     Australian                 RBR-Renault             27.5
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 9:45pm On Jun 15, 2009
Carmakers in F1 breakaway warning

Europe's carmakers have joined Formula One's civil war by backing F1's teams in their battle with the sport's governing body over rules and funding.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8098234.stm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 9:47pm On Jun 15, 2009
British Grand Prix

Silverstone, 19-21 June 2009
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/calendar/default.stm

Who will win this one? Shouldn't be a hard guess. grin
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by nazzyon(m): 10:24pm On Jun 15, 2009
Hamilton said Mclaren has got nothing to show @ Silverstone.

I have been watching the races and I don't miss any of the free practices either.

Nobody can take the Championship from Button and Brawn this season.

Mclaren Driver, Hamilton has advised that Mclaren should start plans for 2010.


Brawn is already testing on their next product for 2010.

Vettel not challenging anymore.

Barrichello has result to attacking Button with words.

Alonso hoping to pull a shocker on Button @ Silverstone.

Nazzyon waiting to see some competition in 2010
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by A40(m): 10:53pm On Jun 15, 2009
This F1 season has been a boring and frustrating one! I don't think Schumacher's era had this kind of domination in one season. I think Button might be on course for the highest pts total ever.That Brawn Mercedes car is all Brawn mixed with some THG
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 4:46pm On Jun 16, 2009
Ferrari still threatening to pull out in 2010.

This season is somewhat boring to me. Yet to see some good old competitive driving.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by A40(m): 1:21am On Jun 17, 2009
Its been beyond boring and if Ferrari pull out it would be goodbye to the Sport as we know it Formula 1 may never recover from the blow
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 2:40pm On Jun 20, 2009
Vettel grabs pole for British GP
Sebastian Vettel secured pole for the British Grand Prix in his updated Red Bull car as Brawn's championship leader Jenson Button struggled to land sixth.

Vettel edged Button's team-mate Rubens Barrichello into second and his own team-mate Mark Webber into third with a time of one minute 19.509 seconds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8110735.stm
Told y'all that this is a 2 horse race. wink
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by gyde(m): 3:06pm On Jun 20, 2009
FBS:

Told y'all that this is a 2 horse race. wink


Button would still take it,he works magic in that brawn
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 9:46pm On Jun 20, 2009
gyde:

Button would still take it,he works magic in that brawn
there is nothing magic in JB. Its the car that is magic.
Well, tomorrow we shall know who comes first.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 6:17am On Jun 22, 2009
Sebastian Vettel was fantastic yesterday. He gave Button no chance at all. In fact he made a hat-trick.

Redbull did a 1-2. Can they mount a challenge from here?

Vettel romps to Silverstone win
Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel scored a crushing victory in the British Grand Prix as championship leader Jenson Button's Brawn struggled to sixth.
Vettel took advantage of his team-mate Mark Webber being caught behind Brawn's Rubens Barrichello to build a decisive lead in the first stint of the race.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8111672.stm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by nazzyon(m): 8:19pm On Jun 22, 2009
Truly, Vettel was the almighty on the track yesterday which I quite enjoyed yesterday.

To see Button JENSON qualify and finished @ P6 yesterday didn't come as a surprise. I was hoping it will happen towards the end of the season but it happened sooner than I had hoped; so it is a good news.

Irue lao ma ri.

____________

I enjoyed watching Mclaren's Lewis Hamilton yesterday. He qualified 19th on the Grid but finished 16th due to the tussle between him and Alonso.

The fight between him and Alonso was very entertaining. If it were not for both Kubica and Heidfeld's BMW they would have both made close to the 10 in that race.

BMW's and other cars with Rear Diffuser were too difficult to over take yesterday which explain why McWebber got stuck behind Ruben Barrichello.

The Ferrari's were classic

Bad day for Heiki Kovaleinen and Sebastien Bourdais.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 9:15pm On Jun 22, 2009
nazzyon:

I enjoyed watching Mclaren's Lewis Hamilton yesterday. He qualified 19th on the Grid but finished 16th due to the tussle between him and Alonso.

The fight between him and Alonso was very entertaining. If it were not for both Kubica and Heidfeld's BMW they would have both made close to the 10 in that race.

BMW's and other cars with Rear Diffuser were too difficult to over take yesterday which explain why McWebber got stuck behind Ruben Barrichello.
I was precisely watching that. Driving and piloting at the very best. Did you see when he did manage to overtake was it Kubica on lap 38 or so? The whole crowd went bongos . . .what a lad Louis is.
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 6:45am On Jun 25, 2009
F1 deal ends threat of breakaway
An agreement has been reached between Formula 1's governing body and the teams to prevent a breakaway series.

The two parties had been engulfed in a bitter row over planned budgetary and technical changes for the 2010 season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8116756.stm
hmmm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 6:22am On Jul 09, 2009
New row 'threatens F1's future'
The eight members of the Formula 1 Teams Association (Fota) walked out of a meeting with the sport's governing body, the FIA, on Wednesday.

The meeting, at Germany's Nurburgring, was held to discuss next year's rules and Fota's proposed changes to them.

But the Fota teams left when told they had not entered the 2010 championship and therefore had no voting rights on technical and sporting regulations.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8141428.stm

This is not the end. . .
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 6:27am On Jul 10, 2009
[center]F1 breakaway plans still in place[/center]
Eight of the major Formula 1 teams are continuing with plans to set up a breakaway championship next year.

F1 was thrown into confusion when the eight teams in the rebel umbrella group Fota were told on Wednesday they were not entered in the 2010 championship.

"We have to keep our options open," said BMW F1 boss Mario Theissen. "We are working in both directions.
"It is part of the ongoing negotiations and we can only hope it will be sorted out," he added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8143165.stm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by FBS: 9:15pm On Jul 11, 2009
[center]Webber charges to first F1 pole[/center]
Red Bull's Mark Webber qualified on pole for the first time after a rain-affected qualifying session for the German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring.

The Australian clocked one minute 32.230 to finish ahead of Brawn GP's Rubens Barrichello and Jenson Button.

Sebastian Vettel was fourth in the second Red Bull as the unpredictable weather made for a thrilling afternoon.

The improving McLaren of Lewis Hamilton will start fifth, equalling his best qualifying performance of the season.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8145826.stm
Re: Formula 1 Grandprix 2009 by Phony200(m): 2:10pm On Jul 12, 2009
Lap 22: Hamilton is dead last after some bad luck and Mark Webber is head and carburator above everyone in a Red Bull one-two with Massa third 1.2 seconds behind S. Vettel now. I guess I have to reconsider that Brawn GP victory procession now, Barichello is 5th, Button 6th. grin grin

Still a lot to come sha, oh, Raikkonen has crashed out after mechanical problems while Webber has survived a drivethrough penalty to still be ahead.

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