Maestro21:


I asked you questions that you did not answer. You just danced around the points. Have you ever watched the programme? If you have not, you are already in error. Every other point you are making is nonsensical. If you have, then I will ask you more questions, just to let you know that you are completely out of your depth on Apostle Suleman.

Just to deliver you from gross ignorance, "Wonders without Numbers" is an online prayer meeting. Apostle Suleman shares scriptures related to an issue the holy spirit is leading him to pray about, explains the significance of the prayer and then leads people to pray for roughly 30-45 mins of the time. He usually raises 2 prayer points while at it.

Next, he prophesies about cases and individuals sometimes in relation to the prayer points and other times with whatever the holy spirit lays on him. Then towards the end of the prayer meeting, he prays specifically for the sick: asking people to place their left hands on the aspect that needs healing and their right hands stretched towards the screen.

Lastly, he prays for people in financial straits. People who might be owed monies, needing financial help from people they know, strangers etc, seeking financial favours, in financial dire straits. He asks people to hold their ATM cards, wallets or any token that represents money as a demonstration of faith. Then, he prays to God to come through for them. That God should send angels to help those who are lockedown and cannot get jobs, to cause people they know and strangers to help. Then he essentially ends the program.

By the next day of the prayer meeting, he reads out testimonies. Guess what? People write back telling him how they got strange alerts in their banks concerning monies - many times of names they do not know depositing money into their accounts. Sometimes people see their own names as the depositor. Others testify that people who owed them strangely paid. Others talk about financial promotions at work and others talk about family members sending them monies. Real estate agents, contractors, get strange contracts and attribute it to the prayer he made concerning them the previous day. Those are all variations of "miracle money".

Nobody holds teaching sessions about money and spends time praying for monies to enter accounts. The prayer sessions related to finances are in maximum 10-15 seconds. That is why I asked you if you ever watched the programme before talking rubbish.

Now that you are educated, repent retract the stupid words you had used and continue to be the CharlyG1 that some of us come here to read from and leave stupid gossip and cheap talk to carnal people.

When you are ready for a thorough discussion on angels, mention me and be couth about it. I will show you a lot that you do not know.

For e.g you quoted Psalms 8:4-5. That is called studying a verse in isolation. What that refers to is mortality not authority. Man was made lower than angels in that man is mortal but angels are not. If you doubt me, Hebrews 2:7 repeats the same verse from Psalms 8:4-5 but in verse 9, the author includes that Jesus was also made lower than angels - so do angels have authority over Jesus going by your claims? That is false.

The author explains what it means - "for the suffering of death" which means mortality. Verse 16 of the same chapter says the same - Jesus did not take the "nature of angels" - the form of angels. Instead he took the seed of Abraham - which means he was mortal. Says nothing about authority.

Again, I ask, where is it in the bible that angels have authority over man?

Oludami1:

@bolded
You surely are not speaking of God, and you have an antagonistic spirit. Check yourself.

enthronedbyGod1:


I pray I'm forgiven for making this comment and going against my word of not commenting again.

I quoted you because of your comment shared by someone I follow. I love the way you hold forth for Johnson Suleiman, but I don't like the way you go about it with harsh words. Please try and speak with love when doing so and yes there's a difference between authority and power. I just had this conversation with a disciple of Christ via emails.
This doesn't mean I agree with everything you've said.

If you go through your comments and see you used harsh words on people please apologize to them if you think it's necessary.

I intentionally left out the miracle money issue ,cos I didn't know the full details, which I've gotten to know now by your comment shared to me, but please stop replying people with harsh words.

We should understand that we as Christians only know in part and prophesy in part. I also intentionally left it out cos I know there are dimensions that the natural man would never understand except revealed by the Spirit.
God didn't reveal anything to me as regards that, so I spoke only as I was led. This is why I kept mute on the issue.

There's a revival coming and unbelievable things would happen that would make the church label the men at the forefront occultist, despite their acts being biblical, cos of lack of understanding.
During this revival men would walk on water, men would disappear and reappear, men would call God and He'd answer by thunder, men would call down fire from heaven and God would answer by fire like in the days of Elijah and so many strange things I can't say so I don't sound like a comedian to the natural man.
I've personally been shot and saw the bullet return to the sender with my 2 eyes( I was mocked on this forum for sharing the testimony) cos it defied sciences.
I read a story from a book on the deeper life revival written by a white man . A family had nothing to eat , they placed their plates on the table, closed their eyes and asked God to bless the food ( empty plates) , by the time they opened their eyes, the plates were filled up with food. Second story was a family that prayed for provision and woke up the next day with food items on their door step and they never got to know the source.

We can't dictate to God how He chooses to move , the Bible says the Spirit is like wind and blows whichever way He wants to. Let's limit our expositions based on our understanding of the things of God so we don't derail and make utterances we'd regret, cos the Bible says let our yea be yea and nay be nay.

Lastly when we've erred in any way let's be humble enough to realise our mistakes, for this is the true test of humility.

1st Corinthians 13 should be our guide as Christians.


I pray I'm forgiven for going against my own words. I'd keep to my words this time.
May God help us all to be better Christians ( I'm not excluded)

naijaboy756:
Oga,

'Miracle money' can be in the form of God using someone to give you money or sending helper your way. But the miracle money concept of most of these 21st century pastors is that you just get money deposited to your account gbagam by spirits, angels or some strange beings. That is MAGIC. I have watched a crusade in one of these African countries concerning miracle money and right there on the crusade ground, people were screaming alerts gotten up and down. Who made the payments, from which bank, what is the depositor's name, what is the narration etc? Personally, that is not possible. AM NOT SAYING GOD CANNOT DO IT O, but he will likely use a vessel
People are worried about the Ap. maybe because he may recently have some links with some pastors like Shepherd Bushiri and Eubert Angel. Jeremiah omofufehin( If I got that right) also have/had links with them and I wept when he used Eubert Angels shoes to preach

azammi:
It like SIn leaves a kind of spiritual mark that can be spotted by the demons

Maestro21:
To all those I offended with my harsh words, please forgive me. My intention was not to be harsh but I let my emotions get the best of me.

I firmly believe in healthy christian debates but I do not subscribe to character assassination and in dealing with individuals. I will rather only discuss doctrines, and the only times individuals are brought up, it should be for honour. You cannot convince me otherwise.

Like I said earlier, "Wonders Without Numbers" is not a programme about miracle money. Healings, deliverances from demonic oppressions, improved spiritual/prayer lives, all sorts of testimonies are the highlights, but people leave all those to focus on "miracle money". That should tell you who is really behind these attacks.

If you are not sure about the veracity of something, it is best to keep mum about it and ask the holy spirit if it troubles you so. If you cannot find adequate scripture references for or against something, just leave it alone. That is wisdom.

Yes, authority and power are not the same. Joe Biden's bodyguard can beat him up one on one because he has more power than him, but with one word, Joe Biden can have that bodyguard on the floor, because Joe has more authority than him. The reason we can cast out devils from people is authority - otherwise, one v one, no man can take on a demon spirit. I should have communicated that truth in love.

There is a debate about the word "elohim" as used in Psalms 8:4-5 in whether it meant God or heavenly beings partly because elohim did not always mean God in every bible verse in the OT. Because the Hebrews author decided to use the greek word which translates to angels, many bible students assume that the context in Psalms 8 meant angels, which is why I steered clear from addressing the scripture from that angle.

It is also correct that Jesus "being made lower than angels" was in relation to him being a man but man has different aspects to him which is why I zeroed in on the mortality dynamic. As a result of being contentious, we let what would have been a healthy conversation go south.

I admit my huge role in it and again, I apologize.

Cheers.

Maestro21:


You cannot experience God to the extent that you limit him in your mind. I cry when I see some posts if I am being honest.

Your issue is, you have already made up your mind about who is right and who is wrong. The holy spirit does not lead us that way. If you don't understand certain things, why not press into him and ask for his opinion?

If you say you are not saying that God cannot do it, that should be your cue to remain silent. The other questions you are asking are moot. Apostle Michael Orokpo shared a testimony of his time in NYSC in Delta when he got stranded somewhere and needed money to pay for a bus fare back to Benue or so. He knew he had zero naira in his ATM card but he was absolutely stranded and had no one to help. He took his ATM card and spoke in tongues asking God for help because in his own words "I had heard other men of God share such testimonies". He took his card, put it in an ATM, selected 5000 N, the machine did not react at all. He expected an "insufficient funds" prompt from the screen of the ATM, so he could take his card and cry but 5000 popped out of the vent which nobody can explain.

Who put the money in his account? When was the money put? What was the narration?

Until you are in trouble and you believe, you may never experience the power of God.

I rest my case.

Nephilim:


Moreover Apostle should endeavor to curtail his sexual escapades. I'm not saying this to backlash him but for his eternity. I understand how difficult it could be when even ladies are throwing themselves at you. And the devil could be very trickish, this is where he has held many of them ministers in captivity. We need to pray for them and keep praying for ourselves too not to fall into the trap of the enemy. May God continue to strengthen us all, grace!

TheNoble007:


At the bolded, for now, all those sexual accusations against him are pure lies from the pit of hell. His enemies are his people who wants to bring him down by all means, God told me. I have written about this on NL last year. He has his weakness which is his mouth, and he needs intercession not to go astray. I wish he could ignore the media, and his link with other false prophets whom he hasn't detected by word of knowledge.

Please don't follow the media. Follow what the Holyspirit says about an individual by asking God for clarification. His enemies should bring better polished girls, they should try to get white girls who are better good looking than the ones that a hungry American with only 50$ will not dare approach.


Shalom.

Nephilim:
There's no point trying to say the bolded at all.

Not one person, not even two or three. Is he the most jealoused pastor in Nigeria, or is he the only Apostle that has enemies, that tales of sexual woes and escapades be pinned on him! Maybe quite soon another tale will be raised against him.

Honorable men of God are not attached to controversies like this that brings reproach on them and on the church.

Nephilim:
You didn't complete that story. Someone later confirmed he sent him the 5k as the spirit of the LORD impressed it in his heart to do so at that time.

Truly there's nothing God cannot do, many are just restricted by their knowledge of what God can do. If God can send an angel driving a car to give money to a man that has been crying to God for financial help and by the time he turns around to see how it all transpired the car has disappeared, then we are just steps and knowledge with faith away into the miraculous.

Moreover Apostle should endeavor to curtail his sexual escapades. I'm not saying this to backlash him but for his eternity. I understand how difficult it could be when even ladies are throwing themselves at you. And the devil could be very trickish, this is where he has held many of them ministers in captivity. We need to pray for them and keep praying for ourselves too not to fall into the trap of the enemy. May God continue to strengthen us all, grace!

madprophet:


Boss Man,

Please you just already concluded in your mind he is guilty of the allegations, Please let be careful about this stuffs oo.

The one he had with one lady that lady confessed the lord told me it was lie, even before the lady went to his church. Please until we are sure, dont make unfounded allegations.

God bless us sir

madprophet:

The one he had with one lady that lady confessed the lord told me it was lie, even before the lady went to his church. Please until we are sure, dont make unfounded allegations.

God bless us sir

Nephilim:


Nevertheless Unfounded allegations or not! Apostle should endeavor to keep his slate clean.
I can only hope you guys understand the damage this is all doing to the body of Christ in Nigeria. We will continue to pray for them all, thanks sir.

CharlyG1:
@Maestro.. Now I feel really sorry for you.

Your case is really strong.
I do not care about the many programs of your pastor. I believe in sound doctrine and not false doctrines.

When angels are sent to men they act on behalf of God, under His authority. In that way, man falls under that authority, even through that angel that God sends. Hence man cannot command angels nor does man have any authority over angels. I have told you to search for the places where angels exercised some authority over man. You still wouldn't listen.


Let me be the one to deliver you from your ignorance. After reading Hebrews 2, come back to Hebrews 1 and read from verse 4 downward.


Jesus Christ was made lower than the angels, because He had come as man.. who is lower than the angels, not only in mortality but also in power. You better read the whole of Psalms 8. (Man is a ruler being who has been given power and authority over the earth).

Angels are powerful beings and they rule over the forces of Satan. And serve God in His bidding in the heavens and on earth.


Jesus Christ became elevated through His death and resurrection and received a more excellent name THAN THE ANGELS.. Hebrews 1 vs 4... that at the mention of this name, every knee must bow to Him.

The Name of Jesus Christ is Power and Authority OVER ALL. It is the Name we now have that has elevated us through Christ to the right hand of God. And now we are seated and placed higher than the angels. That is why we have power over serpents, and scorpions and over all the forces of darkness.


This new found authority is because of what Christ has done.

If you still don't know the places in the Bible where angels made a man dumb, struck some sodomites with blindness and showed some authority over man, please take out time tonight and find those places before you go to bed.


I am not cut out for popularity. I only speak against lies and I do not follow any man like you do.
There are many many true prophets of God who remain unpopular. Elijah thought he was the only one left. Lol. I don't care about money, power or fame. I care only about Jesus and His Church.

Please read your Bible well before you type rubbish again. Goodnight

LilMissFavvy:
This is hard to believe. If this is true, then I genuinely seek God's forgiveness for the disgusts feeling I experience in my heart, anytime I see Pastor Suleiman's picture. In my life I can't remember any MOG who disgusts me like Mr. Suleiman, all due to the accusations. I take a look at his accusers, and wonder how on earth a man of God would commit such abominations. If he is innocent, may God almighty continue to sustain him, and increase his grace. Nothing can be as painful as false accusations. If he is guilty of some, then the best he should do is to go on suspension and seek God's face to receive the grace to overcome adultery.

Nephilim:
Thanks MOG! I appreciate.

Nevertheless Unfounded allegations or not! Apostle should endeavor to keep his slate clean. God speaks to many of us too. I would have post a revelation of the decree that has gone ahead of him but I won't. Selman is unmarried and thriving Apostle yet no one has come to raise any allegations on him.

I can only hope you guys understand the damage this is all doing to the body of Christ in Nigeria. We will continue to pray for them all, thanks sir.

madprophet:


Boss Mi,

It can be tiring and frustrating because it has caused a lot of ridicule to the body but you know in this walk, we can only pray and believe God for him. That is why i tell people if you know you are not a matured christian and have stamina, dont go close to the pulpit, the things you would hear can make you tired. But what do we do?

We can only look on to Jesus and believe that we would not make the same mistakes they have made or are making while believing God to encounter them

God would help us sir..... Hope you great boss mi

Nephilim:
Anyone that mount and climb the pulpit should understand that protecting the image of the church rest upon his shoulders.

Therefore shouldn't be involved or named to anything that will bring reproach to himself and the church to the point that the name of our God be profaned among the heathen!!

Unmhm, It's Well!

Thanks so much for your response Brotherly! I trust your ministry is going great. I'm still waiting for that invitation to minister with you at Canada lol !

Maestro21:
To all those I offended with my harsh words, please forgive me. My intention was not to be harsh but I let my emotions get the best of me.

I firmly believe in healthy christian debates but I do not subscribe to character assassination and in dealing with individuals. I will rather only discuss doctrines, and the only times individuals are brought up, it should be for honour. You cannot convince me otherwise.

Like I said earlier, "Wonders Without Numbers" is not a programme about miracle money. Healings, deliverances from demonic oppressions, improved spiritual/prayer lives, all sorts of testimonies are the highlights, but people leave all those to focus on "miracle money". That should tell you who is really behind these attacks.

If you are not sure about the veracity of something, it is best to keep mum about it and ask the holy spirit if it troubles you so. If you cannot find adequate scripture references for or against something, just leave it alone. That is wisdom.

Yes, authority and power are not the same. Joe Biden's bodyguard can beat him up one on one because he has more power than him, but with one word, Joe Biden can have that bodyguard on the floor, because Joe has more authority than him. The reason we can cast out devils from people is authority - otherwise, one v one, no man can take on a demon spirit. I should have communicated that truth in love.

There is a debate about the word "elohim" as used in Psalms 8:4-5 in whether it meant God or heavenly beings partly because elohim did not always mean God in every bible verse in the OT. Because the Hebrews author decided to use the greek word which translates to angels, many bible students assume that the context in Psalms 8 meant angels, which is why I steered clear from addressing the scripture from that angle.

It is also correct that Jesus "being made lower than angels" was in relation to him being a man but man has different aspects to him which is why I zeroed in on the mortality dynamic. As a result of being contentious, we let what would have been a healthy conversation go south.

I admit my huge role in it and again, I apologize.

Cheers.

perezeghi:





Apologies just like to confirm........
If angels exercise authority over man, then at what point in time is this scripture usable.....

1Cor.6.3 - Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Shalom.

sholay2011:
I wanted to keep quiet about the ongoing issue here but let me chip in my 2 cents.

I don't think anyone here said Apostle Suleman is a false prophet. And if they did, well, to each his own; God hasn't told me anything like that personally. Nonetheless, you don't have to be a false prophet for one of your teachings to be false. This is why every believer needs to be a Berean Christian and search the scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You just don't swallow everything you are fed hook, line and seaweed because someone is anointed, even if they are followed with signs and wonders. The scriptures confirms our experiences, not vice versa.

With the recent explanations on what was meant by "Miracle Money", I don't know what to say. But know this, God will not just make naira notes appear in your pocket. These notes are numbered by the Central Bank of Nigeria. Our God is a Miracle Worker, not a Magician. And I watched the video online and carefully read comments of where people cited where Jesus asked Peter to go pick a coin from the mouth of a fish. The real question one should ask is why didn't Jesus ask Peter to just dip his hand in his pocket because a coin would appear? I can infer that Jesus knows everything and probably someone dropped a coin in that river, hence, in the mouth of the fish, hence again, Jesus asking Peter to go get that coin from the mouth of the fish. If your first instinct when an unknown person deposits a sum of money into your account is to call it "Miracle money" and spend it, instead of reporting to the bank or inquiring where it came from, you need to clearly check yourself because you are becoming a thief.

It is also not scripturally defensible to throw insults at those that question an anointed man of God. No one is God and we are all brothers and sisters in this body. Even Paul stood up to Peter when the latter was being hypocritical about the issue of gentiles. We do not sacrifice truth in the name of unity. Our God never does that. If you want to come to the man's defence, do it with words seasoned in love. Your words will determine your eligibility into heaven, not the anointed servant of God you're trying to defend as it were. Our loyalty should be to God and His word.

We should not be naïve.

CharlyG1:
@Maestro.. Now I feel really sorry for you.

Your case is really strong.
I do not care about the many programs of your pastor. I believe in sound doctrine and not false doctrines.

When angels are sent to men they act on behalf of God, under His authority. In that way, man falls under that authority, even through that angel that God sends. Hence man cannot command angels nor does man have any authority over angels. I have told you to search for the places where angels exercised some authority over man. You still wouldn't listen.


Let me be the one to deliver you from your ignorance. After reading Hebrews 2, come back to Hebrews 1 and read from verse 4 downward.


Jesus Christ was made lower than the angels, because He had come as man.. who is lower than the angels, not only in mortality but also in power. You better read the whole of Psalms 8. (Man is a ruler being who has been given power and authority over the earth).

Angels are powerful beings and they rule over the forces of Satan. And serve God in His bidding in the heavens and on earth.


Jesus Christ became elevated through His death and resurrection and received a more excellent name THAN THE ANGELS.. Hebrews 1 vs 4... that at the mention of this name, every knee must bow to Him.

The Name of Jesus Christ is Power and Authority OVER ALL. It is the Name we now have that has elevated us through Christ to the right hand of God. And now we are seated and placed higher than the angels. That is why we have power over serpents, and scorpions and over all the forces of darkness.


This new found authority is because of what Christ has done.

If you still don't know the places in the Bible where angels made a man dumb, struck some sodomites with blindness and showed some authority over man, please take out time tonight and find those places before you go to bed.


I am not cut out for popularity. I only speak against lies and I do not follow any man like you do.
There are many many true prophets of God who remain unpopular. Elijah thought he was the only one left. Lol. I don't care about money, power or fame. I care only about Jesus and His Church.

Please read your Bible well before you type rubbish again. Goodnight

Maestro21:


I asked you questions that you did not answer. You just danced around the points. Have you ever watched the programme? If you have not, you are already in error. Every other point you are making is nonsensical. If you have, then I will ask you more questions, just to let you know that you are completely out of your depth on Apostle Suleman.

Just to deliver you from gross ignorance, "Wonders without Numbers" is an online prayer meeting.
Apostle Suleman shares scriptures related to an issue the holy spirit is leading him to pray about, explains the significance of the prayer and then leads people to pray for roughly 30-45 mins of the time. He usually raises 2 prayer points while at it.

Next, he prophesies about cases and individuals sometimes in relation to the prayer points and other times with whatever the holy spirit lays on him. Then towards the end of the prayer meeting, he prays specifically for the sick: asking people to place their left hands on the aspect that needs healing and their right hands stretched towards the screen.

Lastly, he prays for people in financial straits. People who might be owed monies, needing financial help from people they know, strangers etc, seeking financial favours, in financial dire straits. He asks people to hold their ATM cards, wallets or any token that represents money as a demonstration of faith. Then, he prays to God to come through for them. That God should send angels to help those who are lockedown and cannot get jobs, to cause people they know and strangers to help. Then he essentially ends the program.

By the next day of the prayer meeting, he reads out testimonies. Guess what? People write back telling him how they got strange alerts in their banks concerning monies - many times of names they do not know depositing money into their accounts. Sometimes people see their own names as the depositor. Others testify that people who owed them strangely paid. Others talk about financial promotions at work and others talk about family members sending them monies. Real estate agents, contractors, get strange contracts and attribute it to the prayer he made concerning them the previous day. Those are all variations of "miracle money".

Nobody holds teaching sessions about money and spends time praying for monies to enter accounts. The prayer sessions related to finances are in maximum 10-15 seconds. That is why I asked you if you ever watched the programme before talking rubbish.

Now that you are educated, repent retract the stupid words you had used and continue to be the CharlyG1 that some of us come here to read from and leave stupid gossip and cheap talk to carnal people.

When you are ready for a thorough discussion on angels, mention me and be couth about it. I will show you a lot that you do not know.

For e.g you quoted Psalms 8:4-5. That is called studying a verse in isolation. What that refers to is mortality not authority. Man was made lower than angels in that man is mortal but angels are not. If you doubt me, Hebrews 2:7 repeats the same verse from Psalms 8:4-5 but in verse 9, the author includes that Jesus was also made lower than angels - so do angels have authority over Jesus going by your claims? That is false.

The author explains what it means - "for the suffering of death" which means mortality. Verse 16 of the same chapter says the same - Jesus did not take the "nature of angels" - the form of angels. Instead he took the seed of Abraham - which means he was mortal. Says nothing about authority.

Again, I ask, where is it in the bible that angels have authority over man?

perezeghi:





Apologies just like to confirm........
If angels exercise authority over man, then at what point in time is this scripture usable.....

1Cor.6.3 - Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?

Shalom.

perezeghi:



Please can you interpret the bolded?
Because you're referring to prayers being made on behalf of a person and not words of counsel that the person has the choice to adhere to or reject........

Please kindly clarify

MarkGud:


Glad the dust raised by this Miracle money issue is settled. However, the program ‘Wonders without numbers’ you mentioned isn’t what led to the recent outburst of miracle money on social domains (which i think CharlesG1 referred to) and the arrest of that YouTuber. Go out find out the program and set your narrative right. Shalom