₦airaland Forum

Donnie,
I love you too.
I notice your dogmatic believe is young that is why is so strong for you to believe falsehood. You were fast to quote from the new testament now to defend your self.

Tithe or no tithe we are able to educate ourselves.

Not all churches practices came from Christ he never establish a church, not all practices are biblical either.

some are cultural which we can not be adopt here in Nigeria.

When Paul suggested that a woman's head must be covered in public worship, he was expressing a cultural norm not a universal principle.

When Paul said, "I forbid a woman to have authority over a man" or when he suggested that those who do not worship God properly would have their sexual identities confused, does one really want to suggest that this badly dated bit of human ignorance is to be reverenced as the voice of God?

Can you go and work for your in-law now for five year to marry ?
If your wife ask you to have fun with your house maid now for her to have a child for you will you trust her? Or if an angel commanded you to offer your loved one to him  like Isaac & Abraham will you Obey? Such is the case at hand.

. Secular people live in a post-religious world where the idea that a literary work, written between 1000 B.C.E. and 135 C.E., can be "the Word of God," is simply too far-fetched to believe. This obvious ecclesiastical power play is no longer even passively accepted as benign. One has only to chart the evil and pain that many people have endured in history because someone regarded the Bible as the "Word of God." That claim is no longer regarded as valid. (Bishop Spong 2005)

donnie:
To the rest of you who have rained insults on me. No offence at all. I only take Solace in the Words of Jesus:

[
That is why i say....I am not of this World!

Is this not a case of psychosis? I am sorry, psychosis is defined as the loss of contact with reality, a psychiatric disorder such as schizophrenia or mania that is marked by delusions, hallucinations( hearing Strange voices alone ), incoherence, and distorted perceptions of reality.

Bishop Spong said and I Qoute "[b]we need to state some basic biblical facts.
The people who wrote the books in the Bible did not think they were writing "The Word of God." That is a quite elementary but singularly important place to begin.
In regard to the first five books of the Bible, called the Torah or the Books of Moses, scholars have known since the 19th century, that they are not the work of a single hand. They are rather a compilation of at least four strands of Jewish writing that were composed over a period of some 500 years. Those strands were first, the Yahwist document, written in the tenth century B.C.E. and sometimes called the Hebrew Iliad, which reflects the national history of the Southern Kingdom of Judah. The second was the Elohist document, written in the 9th century B.C.E. and sometimes called the Hebrew Odyssey, which reflects the national history of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. After the fall of the Northern Kingdom to the Assyrians in 721 B.C.E., these two national stories were woven together into a single narrative. The third document was the product of one known as the Deuteronomic writer, composed in the late 7th century B.C.E., and consisting of the book of Deuteronomy and a general editing of the newly merged national Jewish story. The fourth source of the Torah was not so much a document as it was an expansive editorial commentary applied to the entire faith story by those called the Priestly Writers and written during the Babylonian Exile somewhere between 586 and 450 B.C.E. That is the process, briefly described, that produced the oldest part of the biblical story.
One can identify the places where these versions of the story were woven rather inexactly together, producing many of the conflicting details in the Torah itself. The Sabbath day law, for example, developed during the Exile, is read back into the manna in the wilderness story to make sure that the miraculous food was not gathered on the seventh day in violation of the Sabbath. The ritualistic laws governing sacrifices were used to alter the Noah story so that during the 150 days on the ark, Noah could offer the proper sacrifices without destroying that species.
Finally, there are three versions of the Ten Commandments in the Torah. The oldest one, from the Yahwist document, is found in Exodus 34. The version with which most of us are familiar, found in Exodus 20, comes from the Elohist document but was significantly doctored by the Priestly Writers. The third version is in Deuteronomy 5 and though close to Exodus 20 has some revealing differences. The Deuteronomic version of the 4th Commandment makes the reason for rest on the Sabbath, not that God rested from the work of creation and thus hallowed that day, but that the Jews should remember that they were once slaves and that even slaves need a day of rest. The seven-day creation story, with which the Bible now opens, was written by the Priestly Writers well after the Deuteronomic document had been completed". [/b]

The idea that the Bible came into being in some sort of miraculous way and is either the literal dictation of God or even the "inspired message of God" is simply not supportable on its face. The Bible is a profoundly human, deeply flawed, tribal history that has created as much pain as blessing in our world.

So becareful not to waste your money on TITHE because it is not Biblical.

Only in given can you receive. It is good to give cheerfully.

I tell you a bit about Bishop Spong, Why Christianity Must Change or Die

"Every image of God is mythological," Spong affirmed. The disciple Judas and Jesus' earthly father, Joseph, were fictional characters whom the early church created. Spong called the Ten Commandments "immoral" too.

The first Bishop with modern view of things. What will be his views on topics like this Tithe or No tithe

That does not mean he is right about everything. I agree that tithing should not be a requirement. However if someone wants to do that nayway, I am not going to be the one to stop him.

matt 17:25

Hey People!

I warn those who quote Bishop Spong as if he were a man who correctly divides the Word of Truth.Africa has got a lot to offer to the wolrd in terms of teaching the true gospel as written in the scriptures by the Holy Spirit.

The Bishop who was not[i][/i]

John Shelby Spong was born in Charlotte, North Carolina in 1931. John went to the public schools of Charlotte North Carolina and in the 1940s during his junior and senior years of school, he took two classes in the Bible. By age 12, he was given a King James Bible as a Christmas present by his mother after his father died. His mom is described as "a woman of a simple faith; no critical problems ever bothered her understanding of God" (Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, p. 14). He read the bible religiously each day. The bible became his source of life and states he was able to quote the scriptures on salvation efficiently.

Spong was a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1952 and received his Master of Divinity degree in 1955 from the Protestant Episcopal Theological Seminary in Virginia. Both the seminary and St. Paul's College have both conferred on him honorary Doctor of Divinity degrees. He had served as rector of St. Joseph's Church in Durham, North Carolina from 1955 to 1957. Rector of Calvary Parish, Tarboro, North Carolina from 1957 to 1965. Rector of St. John's Church in Lynchburg, Virginia from 1965 to 1969. Rector of St. Paul's Church in Richmond, Virginia from 1969 to 1976. In 1973 he was elected by General Convention to a six-year term on the Executive Council, the governing body of the Episcopal Church, just under the General Convention. He was consecrated bishop on June 12, 1976. In 1986, under Bishop Edmond Browning, he was appointed to the Standing Commission on Human Affairs and Health. Spong has been the Episcopal bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark New Jersey since 1979. Starting in January 2000 he will retire and begin teaching at Harvard.

Bishop Spong's writings and teachings are on the authority of the Bible, God, History, the Virgin Birth, the resurrection of Jesus, culture, sexuality, and sin. However he is not writing an apologetic for the faith, he is criticizing it, ALL of it. His position is more than just challenging the Scripture, it is anti-biblical and antichrist. He has written several books that state that Jesus was not born of a virgin and another that denies that Jesus was actually raised from the dead, just about anything in scripture has become his target. He has campaigned for same sex marriages and the ordination of practicing homosexuals. He has lobbied for abortion rights on the premise of freedom from abortion restrictions, which are oppressive to women.

For those on his side he is admired and praised as a brilliant writer and speaker, bravely campaigning for reformation and a new morality in the Church. In his book In Living in Sin? 1988, A Bishop Rethinks Human Sexuality, Spong justified homosexuality,fornication. He has fervently promoted sexual relations outside of marriage for both heterosexuals and homosexuals, maintaining that "sex outside of marriage can be holy and life-giving in some circumstances." He has developed a marriage like ceremony to "recognize and bless" gay couples in Episcopal Churches. Spong has ordained homosexuals to the ministry and wants all the church to do the same.

Spong speaks with a man given authority on this and other matters. But in fact when one reads how he interprets the scripture they can only sympathize with a man with no direction. The real problem is his gangrene being spread to others. Spong is not gun shy to the public, he has appeared on The Phil Donahue Show, The Tom Snyder Show The Oprah Winfrey Show, Good Morning America, The Today Show, Firing Line with Wm. Buckley a few times, Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher on 5 occasions, The O’Reilly Factor with Bill O’Reilly twice, Nightline , CNN, and even the apologetic program - The John Ankerberg Show.

In 1988 Spongs first wife died and he states "people all over the Dioscese prayed for her because I was well known. I wondered if the garbage collector in downtown Newark had a wife who had cancer who died and people didn't pray for her would she die quicker, or would she die more painfully and I decided if that’s the way this world works I don't want to believe in that kind of God." (Dec 27,99 Politically Incorrect Bill Mahr) Spongs mistake is interpreting God by his experience of the way the world is. Surely any Christian would pray for anyone from any walk of life, but it would be Gods prerogative to answering the prayer.

With Love KZ

Kz, Some of us know all those detail, Please link it with tithe. The Bishop is a christian with his own free will

otokx:
matt 17:25

That is about temple tax. Yearly contribution/church dues they are not the same as TITHE.

I have always held on to God's word in Malachi 3;10-12.
10- Bring the full tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the Lord of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. 11- I will rebuke the devourer [2] for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the Lord of hosts. 12- Then all nations will call you blessed, for you will be a land of delight, says the Lord of hosts.
TRUST ME, IT WORKS...

Are you Ggiving to God with a Cheerful Heart or Tithing by law to Benefit Yourself?

Have you been promised a great return if you give money to God through a church or a TV ministry? Maybe you heard some testimonies of people getting rich and you were drawn to give whatever you can because someone said that if you sow your seed into their anointed ground it bring a hundred fold return. The stories and testimonies are endless and so are the devastated lives from the unfulfilled promises to them.

There are two different groups of people on different sides; those who see these men as scam artists and are questioning the validity of their practices by the Bible and the other group believes whatever they say, thinking it is biblical and they do not question a thing.

Many preachers, churches and ministries have become very wealthy - especially television evangelists from practicing what they call seed faith. Many today live as king's in what would be called palaces and justify their opulence by using tithing as the law of God to have these blessings. However in closer examination there is no comparison between the enjoyers of the prosperity teaching in the modern day church today and the life Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, or how the Apostle Paul lived. Don't get me wrong, we should give, it is important to give (not just money). I assure you I'm not saying you should not support the church that you go to or ministries that do God's work. What I am asking you to do is two things. Question what your motive is in giving or more importantly, what is their motive in why they are telling you to give? And second: to look into the Scripture to see if what they are saying is Biblical by its context. Both of these will be covered in this article.

God does bless truth and people who want to give with the correct motives. Isn't this what it is all about motives--the givers motive and the receiver's motive.

Tithing for Israel is not the same as the tithe that we hear of today-- in fact tithing was rarely money. There were three tithes in the Old Covenant. More often tithes were the crops, the produce of the soil was to be tithed, grains, the fruit of the trees, every year new wine and oil, the firstborn of their herds and flocks (Leviticus 27:30-33). If the place the nation of Israel were to tithe was too far away to carry their goods (such as Jerusalem) it could be exchanged for money. They were to use their money to buy anything the owner chose: cattle, sheep, wine (Deuteronomy 14:22-26). Every third year the tithe was to be reserved as a festival tithe where they brought out all the tithe, and their produce where the Levite, the stranger, the orphan, the widow, the poor who were in their town, could come and eat and be content (Deuteronomy 14:28-29; 26:12-15). You can expect not to see those who teach tithing as an obligation to practice the third year tithe.

The degree that prosperity teachers manipulate God's people is more than most schemers in the world would dare to do, and they do it without shame. It's all done in the name of our God. The apostles made it clear “But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the Word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth”(2 Corinthians 4:2-3).

No other Scripture has had greater mileage than Malachi 3:10 “Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in My house, and test Me now in this,” says the Lord of hosts, “if I will not open for you the windows of heaven, and pour out for you a blessing until it overflows.” Malachi 3 has been greatly misused for God's blessing to come to his people. A closer look of this verse in the context shows that it has nothing to do with wealth or material blessings. We first find this same term used by God back in Genesis 7:11 the windows of heaven were open and rain contributed to the flood, as the fountains of the deep were broken open. In Genesis 8:2 it says the windows of heaven were stopped and the rain from heaven was restrained. Isaiah 24:18 it also mentions the windows from on high; this phrase is consistently used for water. In Genesis it was a judgment. In Malachi 3 it was to be a blessing on their crops. The nation lived by their agriculture (Husbandry) and depended upon the rain. God's blessing had to do with his provision of water; no rain and they would starve. If they did not give God their tithes which was part of the blessing in the Mosaic covenant God would bring a curse on them, the ground would not yield food because he would not allow it to rain.

By the nation Israel tithing under the Law of Moses, they were to trust God acknowledging that everything belongs to Him. It is impossible to tithe as given to Moses, for it was mostly agricultural. Today we hear that we are to obey the tithe law. The tithes were not gifts, they were taxes, tithes were given in addition to other numerous offerings which ended up to be over 22% (not just 10%). Under the law if you were only giving 10 percent on your tithes you would still be robbing God. One tithe was used to support the Levites (Numbers 18:21-32), who were not allowed to own property like the other tribes of Israel. However, this tithe from the people brought to the Levitical priests was not just money. The goods the Levites received would provide their living for their work in the tabernacle. They also were to tithe on part of the goods that they received, and were to dedicate to the Lord a tenth to the office of the high priest (Numbers 18:21-28). It was the Levites who were to “bring up the tenth of the tithes to the house of our God, to the chambers of the storehouse” (Nehemiah 10:38). The Malachi passage that so many use to prove we are to tithe is not rebuking the people, he is rebuking the Levites for keeping the tithe that went to them. When modern day prosperity teachers use this verse on the people to be faithful, but they are really pointing at themselves-except they are biblically ignorant to recognize what it's actually saying. 1 Timothy 1:5-7 “Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.” The New Testament teaches grace giving, tithing was not a freewill cheerful giving, it was a commandment in Moses' law to a nation under God, Israel. Nowhere in the New Testament does it require any obligation or a legal portion of ones income.

Prosperity teachers who promote tithing like to point out that Jesus commanded tithing. In the New Testament tithe and tithing are found eight times (Matthew 23:23; Luke 11:42; 18:12; Hebrews 7:5-6,8-9). All of these passages refer to the Old Testament usage under the law. Tithing was still practiced under the law when Jesus was on earth, however, the only time Jesus mentioned the tithe was a rebuke to the religious leaders “But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass by justice and the love of God. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. In Matthew 23:23 he explains they “have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.” These you ought to have done” Here Jesus makes it clear that living the life of faith toward God included love toward man and was more necessary than what you give to God; and this was under the law, not grace. Think about what is Jesus addressing? Justice, the Pharisees were unfair in the in dealings with the people, they ripped them off in their sacrifices brought to the temple. Mercy, they had none, everyone had to be as religious (spiritual) as they were. They constantly looked down upon people, remember the story Jesus told of “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.” The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess. “And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' “I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).
So we see giving is not enough to make one justified before God, yet many have been convinced to rely on their obedience in this area to have God's blessings.

The Pharisees said they have faith but they were more interested in the money, in fact Jesus said: “Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him.” ( so did Judas John 12:5-6). Then Jesus scolded them saying “what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God,” and He then summed it up by giving another parable--the rich man and Lazarus. The poor man entered where the faithful were, finding rest in Abraham's bosom but the rich man entered torment. The rich man was punished, not because he was rich but because he lived for self, he had no compassion for poor Lazarus whom he walked by and ignored each day as he sat by his gate.

The weightier matters of the law, what are they? The Christians are to focus on giving to those in need. “And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these” (Mk. 12:31; Gal. 5:14). “Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Gal. 6:2). The principle is to help others, especially the less fortunate brethren (following in principle Deut.14,26)

You'll notice that those promoters of tithing will always use the Old covenant law to justify their teaching this method of blessing. What the prosperity teachers do is bring people out from grace and under law. Under the New Testament covenant there is no specific amount required to give, you determine the amount you can freely give. “Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver.”

So on the question of tithing in the New Testament. Nowhere does Paul or any other apostle mention a required amount. On the other hand, Israel was under the law, being a theocratic nation they were obligated to tithe. Jesus had kept the law before He was crucified, for this reason Jesus had Peter pay the temple tax (Matthew 17:24). After Jesus was crucified the New Covenant began and the Old was finished (Heb.8:7,13). New Testament Christians were NEVER under the Old covenant law? One cannot conclude tithing is required under the New Covenant the same as the Lord's Supper and Baptism. Not once does any epistle contain any admonitions or a rebuke for failing to tithe. The necessity of giving is mentioned but only with the right attitude, to help and support others. You do not have to tithe to have God's blessing, in fact, those who are well off are asked to give away their things away when necessary. “Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy. Let them do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share, storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life” (1 Timothy 6:17-19).

Today we find the poor desiring to be rich and the rich often look upon themselves as blessed and using their abundance as proof of their spiritual condition. They have trained themselves in covetousness ignoring Mark 4:19: “the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires of other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.” One can have an abundance of material blessings and still be bankrupt in their spirituality. We have Jesus saying this about the church of Laodicea. We have too many examples of spiritual giants who have followed this path of abundance to their own demise, Solomon for one. Jesus spoke about money probably more than any other subject, but often with warnings and rebukes, not as a blessing promised for all who follow Him. From today's prosperity preaching one would never know Jesus said to “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses” (Luke 12:15-2). We are cautioned through the whole body of Scripture to be careful of coveting and pursuing riches. Solomon who had more money than most of us will ever see wrote in Proverbs 28:20-23: “A faithful man will abound with blessings, but he who hastens to be rich will not go unpunished. To show partiality is not good, because for a piece of bread a man will transgress. A man with an evil eye hastens after riches, and does not consider that poverty will come upon him. He who rebukes a man will find more favor afterward than he who flatters with the tongue.” Solomon gave both sides of this issue, being poor and being rich. A faithful man is one who serves the Lord no matter what he has, much or little. In other words, we are to be content no matter what we have. We can mistakenly focus our pursuit on only the blessings without realizing that we have abandoned a spiritual life and moved ourselves into a position of severe chastening. Romans 8:32 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? We already have promised what we need according to the love and provision found in Christ Jesus.

It is doubtful we can pinpoint where or when tithing as a legalistic requirement came into the Church, but we can certainly trace its current popularity to the modern prosperity teachers with their promotion of seed faith giving. Many teachers use Mark 10:30 as a promise that anything we give to the Lord will be multiplied one hundred times back to us. Jesus was not speaking about giving, but leaving these things and relatives to follow him. In fact, neither money nor giving is mentioned in association with the hundredfold found in Mark. There is no excuse for teaching this and leading the congregation into collective coveting by their giving. Read the passage carefully! Regardless of what they say it says, did you ever consider that it is because they only want to be on the receiving end? Solomon wrote, “The leech has two daughters--give and Give!” (Proverbs 30:15).

Some teach tithing is the only way the local church is to be supported and tithing to the local church determines a person's spirituality, some have gone as far as to suppose that tithing is a requirement of salvation, if one does not give 10% they are not a true Christian. Some teach from Malachi 3 that you are cursed! What manipulation. If you want to understand the book of Malachi, read Malachi 4:4, “Remember the Law of Moses…” its not just tithing. If you choose by obligation to submit yourself to even part of the Law of Moses, you are obligated to keep it all. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the Law, to perform them” (Galatians 3:10). It is actually the opposite, if you tithe by obligation then you are bound by all the law. Galatians 5:4 explains “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

If you run into financial difficulties and are unable to feed your family or pay the mortgage, you are not obligated to continue giving 10% to the church. The Apostle Paul said in 1 Tim 5:8, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” This is ones first ministry; rest assured the church will get along without your money.

If you have set aside money for your family needs, but do not use it for them and instead pay it to a church or a ministry as tithes, or as an offering of seed to get out of debt your are not being a good steward. If you owe money on your house don't fall for the scammers that say the $1,000 you have saved for the mortgage will not pay for the house so send it in as a seed to get more money. They are feeding on your carnal nature and making you covet--be responsible to God. Scripture does not teach to give more than you can afford, nor give so God can give you more. There was no mention of the poor becoming rich in the gospel, Jesus did not promise a hundred-fold blessing. “For there are many unruly, vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision: whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucere's sake” (Titus 1:10-11). Their motivation is money, what is your motivation? It has been said “He that serves God for money will serve the Devil for better wages”(Roger L'eStrange). What did Jesus tell us, you can't serve God and Mammon at the same time.

If your family is hungry and you need help to pay the rent you shouldn't be obligated to tithe the church should instead be helping you-willingly. That is what they are there for. We have this example in the early church (Acts 4:37). It is to be the “love of Christ that constrains us” (2 Corinthians 5:14). For it is the heart of God to help those in need, in money if necessary. We as the church should be looking for opportunities to give to those less fortunate around us not to those who already have it all. I hear of too many stories of rich ministries being supported for years and then someone who is hurting asks for some help and they get none. Where is your motivation? Is it of legalism, by law, or from the heart. It is to be the Lord Jesus reaching out and meeting the needs of others through us -- love is the principle that governs the Christians life, it is active not passive. “Though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not (His) love, it profits me nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3). Yes you can actually give it all away as required and still not do it as a response from your heart.

Then there is the rich young ruler who gives us all an example. Mark 10:21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.” The man could not do this. Jesus did not tell the man to tithe to him. After the rich man left Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, “How hard it is for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” (Mark 10:23) Those who had less were often able to respond more easily because it did not get in the way, they had less to give up to follow Him.

Jesus did not teach to give to his ministry but to help the less fortunate “Sell what you have and give alms; provide yourselves money bags which do not grow old, a treasure in the heavens that does not fail” (Luke 12:33-34). Zacchaeus understood this and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.” And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham” (Luke 19:8-9). Want to be blessed, don't give to get more, give from your heart to others that are needy because it is the right thing to do.

We should not be supporting false teachers and those who abuse the money and the gospel for gain. We should be looking to support those who are sincere and are in need of help in doing the Lords work. Those who are involved in full-time ministry are to be supported by the people they serve (1 Cor 9:7-14, 1 Tim 5:17-18), and those who do ministry and mission work need to be supported by those who are home with the goods. A careful review of New Testament giving reveals to us that our contributions should not only be to support our local church and ministries, but also meet the basic needs of our fellow Christians (Acts 2:44-45, 4:32-37; 1 Cor. 16:1-3; 2 Cor. 8:1-13; 1 Tim. 6:17-19). There was organized giving within local assemblies to care for believing widows and orphans who had no other family to rely on (Acts 6:1-4; 1 Tim. 5:1-16).

So stop this bullshit

No one has ever given to God willingly, in faith and with a cheerful heart and died of hunger. It is IMPOSSIBLE!

2corinthians 9:7-8

Let each one [give] as he has made up his own mind and purposed in his heart, not reluctantly or sorrowfully or under compulsion, for God loves (He [b]takes pleasure in, prizes above other things, and is unwilling to abandon or to do without) a cheerful (joyous, "prompt to do it" giver [whose heart is in his giving].

And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [c]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [d]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].

Intresting. Money! the root of evil. Nobody cares about the paradise anymore only money and what money can buy. With all the details from the bible, Nigerian are not to pay tithe. No Levities here. Where are the Aron Children to witness? Stealing by method and defending falsehood.

Religion is away of life. Be free to rob in the Name of the LORD

Its amazing how well educated men and women still caught up with some bull sh*****t.
Cant you just see that Tithe is a source of revenue for pastors and church workers
thats why many people want to become pastors. I strongly believe in giving help to the poor
and hungry.Don't get me wrong if there is any contribution going on in the church I do my part
but one thing I will not be fooled into doing is giving 10% of my income to some smart guy.
I don't need no body to give me God I already have IT deep inside me all I need is to develop
that relashionship, that connection and it is a gradual process
WAKE up people!!

Good talk, Praise the Lord. So tithe should be understood as free will given. Not the one forced upon you. Is that right?

Good talk.

Everyone agrees that it is right to "give to God/Christ". The question is how do you give to God/Christ?

Interestingly Jesus Christ gave us the clearest way of how to give to Him and, guess what, He did not say that you give to Him by "paying" tithes! Do you know what He said instead?

He said: as long as you feed the poor, clothe the naked, visit the prisoner you are giving to Him.

If people think they are giving to God/Christ by "tithing", why don't they follow this direction about tithing from Deuteronomy which agrees with how Jesus Christ said people can give to Him?

Deuteronomy 14:28

28 "At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates. 29 And the Levite, because he has no portion nor inheritance with you, and the stranger and the fatherless and the widow who are within your gates, may come and eat and be satisfied, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.


I have never heard one of the tithe preachers especially the prosperity preachers use this passage to say that members should go and share their tithes with widiows, orphans etc instead of bringing it to church. Most of the people who take it to church also do not think that it is better to share with widows and orphans instead of taking to the pastor. In the case of those people it is because their mind is wrong - they see "paying" tithe to church as some kind of magic that will bring blessing because of this misunderstanding of Malachi 3. Whereas Christ has provided the clearest and most beneficial way for them to be blessed --- by blessing the most needy in society.

Christ said: "As long as you do it for the least of these, you do it for ME." In order words as long as you give to the poor, orphans, widows etc you are giving to Christ. Notice that He never said, "as long as you 'pay' your tithes to church/pastor, you are giving to me"!


Meanwhile what about the part of Deuteronomy which says that a person should spend his tithe on whatsoever his own heart desires? Do you hear any of these prosperity preachers tell the congregation; ah, for once why don't you spend the tithe on yourself instead of bringing it to church - as it says in Deuteronomy 14:22-26 (follow link to right verses)

I'm thinking, so much money blowing bastards around.

chrisd:
I'm thinking, so much money blowing bastards around.

Wonderful contribution.

Enigma:
Everyone agrees that it is right to "give to God/Christ". The question is how do you give to God/Christ?




Christ said: "As long as you do it for the least of these, you do it for ME." In order words as long as you give to the poor, orphans, widows etc you are giving to Christ. Notice that He never said, "as long as you 'pay' your tithes to church/pastor, you are giving to me"!


Meanwhile what about the part of Deuteronomy which says that a person should spend his tithe on whatsoever his own heart desires? Do you hear any of these prosperity preachers tell the congregation; ah, for once why don't you spend the tithe on yourself instead of bringing it to church - as it says in Deuteronomy 14:22-26 (follow link to right verses)

Donnie will not agree with all these, because his church has been given to the poor. Such things as cars etc.

Enigma, Are those Wells still there at Kent? They look like pots for the tithe collection. Full of coins.

archibishop dey enjoy, pope e sef dey enjoy, imam sef dey enjoy, my brother wetin you say...

Money! Money is the root of evil. No no no do not talk to man of God like that for tithe sake.

i think the government should start taxing all religious bodies? some of them have annual budgets running into billions of naira.

ha ha ha ha..... in Nigeria?

...that governmaent will not last!

donnie:
ha ha ha ha..... in Nigeria?

...that governmaent will not last!

Yes, God will cause an avalance of fire and brimstone to descend from heavens to smithe the wicked ones

But the tax the church forces on its congregation will last eh

Dinnie,
Listen as Jesus said in Mark 12

38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,

39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:

40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

Cheerful tithe givers are welcome like this woman

41 ¶ And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.

42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.