₦airaland Forum

there is an absence of a command to tithe,

that's all

Which other time are we told that Abraham paid/gave tithes

Yep: None


lordimpaq: correct; indeed there is no command for the Christian to tithe ------- that's all!

And where is the command to stop tithing?

If you agree that Jesus is your High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, and you agree that the job description of a Priest is to offer sacrifices and gifts, then you need to ask yourself what gift is Jesus offering up on your behalf? The Bible says He offered the blood sacrifice once and for all. Where did it say the gift was also offered once and for all? What would you say the gift is going by the example we see in Melchizedek? These are the questions you need to answer before you start making a claim that tithe is done away with.

And by the way, where is it written that the tithe is done away with? You guys are just going beyond that which is expressly written when you say all that. No one has told be what the reality of the tithe is in the New Testament, though we agree on the reality of the blood offering.

I am still waiting for genuine answers.

In the last super, Jesus offer his flesh in form of bread and his blood in form of wine. As a gift He then says do this in his memory.

Chapter 7 of letters of Paul to Hebrews explains the ineffectiveness of tithing.
The laws governing the priesthood (including tithing) were "changed" and "abolished" (7:5, 12, 18).



HEBREWS CHAPTER 7


5     And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:[color=#990000][/color]

11     ¶ If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12     For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


18     For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

Hello TayoD,,

I have to give you one thing sir, you're tenacious (even if sorely misguided).

You are also right to point out references to the law in relation to the tithe as all are agreed that tithing on that basis is redundant.

So back to the point in question;

You posted
And he gave him tithes of all.  
My response
Yes he did, of all the spoil of battle. Please don't stretch scripture to fit your thesis.

You posted
You are yet to show me where the Bible says that Abraham only paid the tithe once.  
My response
Where in the scripture or any kind of literature are things narrated by what was not done or did not happen? It never showed Abraham, Isaac or Jacob tithing in response to a divine command, so I think common sense alone dictates that it's safe to infer that 1. They did not 2. There was no such ordinance.

You posted
And where is the command to stop tithing?
My response
Why would there be a command to stop what there was never a command to start?

TayoD:
If you agree that Jesus is your High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, and you agree that the job description of a Priest is to offer sacrifices and gifts, then you need to ask yourself what gift is Jesus offering up on your behalf?

Two things here
1. You talk about this "job description" like you would willingly admit that that's all a priest does. TayoD, can you truly say that that description is rigid? and that it does not encompass much more than that? I Spelt this out for you in an earlier post, but you failed to acknoledge or refute my assertions in your subsequent responses.

2. Please expalin how Jesus offers up the (in your words) "gift of the tithe" in this dispensation.  

TayoD:
The Bible says He offered the blood sacrifice once and for all.

Yes, because the only thing that prevents intimacy with God is unremitted sins.
Gifts have nothing to do with it. Your insistence on elevating the gift aspect to the same level oas the sin offering is faulty at best.

Please read the OT description of the "Day of Atonement" which is a very significan type. Please note that there is no mention of any gift element. God does not demand physical sacrifice , He demands righteoussness (Proverbs 21:3).

Your say sir,

God bless

TayoD isn't time you gave up this tithe thing and your gift and sacrifice question.

My fiance and I have have this same discussions all the time.
He believes in tithing,I believe in giving freely and we still love each other dearly.

Pray that God will open our eyes if indeed we are wrong.
The arguments are not doing it.
I still love you though,with the love of the Lord of course.

@babyosisi,

Good to hear from you again. I thought you were really so pissed of with me that you have chosen to stay of this topic. I hope you were able to read my apologies to you earlier anyway.

This tithing issue does not give room to love any body less than we would have done if they stand on same or opposite sides of the argument. But nevertheless, my heart is beating with love for you right back.

Addressing your concern, our prayers at the end of it all is that God may open the eyes of every man's understanding. I truely believe in tithing as much as I believe in Love. Both were encouraged under the law but not subject to it.

My problem with the neglect of the scriptures that talks about the gifts and sacrifices stems from that fact that I do not believe that there are any idle words in the Bible. The statement means something, and while some have disagreed with my conclusions, no one has been able to provide a better one. If a better understanding comes to me, then I can be rest assured that I have not let any of God's Word falls to the ground by obeying it to the best of His ability within me.

I did see your apology.
You are a man of great intergrity.
That is my prayer too that God may continually show us any errors in our ways.
The Bible says that the way is strait and narrow and few find it,I want to be a part of those that walk in that narrow way.

It is my desire that we all seek to know what is that good and perfect will of God so that at last we hear those fine words
"welcome thou good and faithful servant".
that should be our aim in all things.

Let Him be glorified.
And anyone that has this hope must seek to do his will alone.
That is my prayer.

hmmmmmmmm, such a happy ending!

Proitestants and tithes


The Bible says, ?

the bottomline is:
1, tithing was part of the old law,
2, tithe is not regarded as a gift but as a levy imposed on jews,
3, the new testament church ignored it since it had no bases to be retained as the fundamentals for its observance were no longer in place in the new dispensation; the church is not a subsidiary of the one temple at Jerusalem, where God chose for the payment of tithes along with other obligations, there were no levites to receive the tithes in the new church situation, etc
I' m sure Tayod now agrees with these obvious truths.

winteric:
the bottomline is:
1, tithing was part of the old law,
2, tithe is not regarded as a gift but as a levy imposed on jews,
3, the new testament church ignored it since it had no bases to be retained as the fundamentals for its observance were no longer in place in the new dispensation; the church is not a subsidiary of the one temple at Jerusalem, where God chose for the payment of tithes along with other obligations, there were no levites to receive the tithes in the new church situation, etc
I' m sure Tayod now agrees with these obvious truths.

This is like Court case. This is the final VERDICT QED.

right brother! to God be the glory. His truth must prevail over falshood, no matter how long it takes.
PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Halleluyah

Hnd-holder:
Proitestants and tithes


The Bible says, ?

My dear brother forget this your protestant and catholic labels.
They were called protestants because they did not want to be controlled by the Roman catholic and the unscriptural doctrines of purgatory,bowing and praying to statutes and through them and such like.
If you are indeed a Christian,say so boldly and forget the insignificant human labels.
You will be judged on your faith in Christ not your Roman Catholicsmness.

I was hoping to let babiosisi have the final say on this topic because she made a very good contribution that cuts across all beliefs. But since some have chosen to take my silence as consent for their stand, I thought I should clear this mirage from their mind.

@winteric,

the bottomline is:
1, tithing was part of the old law,
2, tithe is not regarded as a gift but as a levy imposed on jews,
3, the new testament church ignored it since it had no bases to be retained as the fundamentals for its observance were no longer in place in the new dispensation; the church is not a subsidiary of the one temple at Jerusalem, where God chose for the payment of tithes along with other obligations, there were no levites to receive the tithes in the new church situation, etc
I' m sure Tayod now agrees with these obvious truths.

1. What law are you talking about here? If it is the Mosaic law, then tithing predates it and it is not subject to that law.
2. So can you please tell us what the gift refers to then. As indicated in Hebrews, all the Priests before and during the law must offer gifts. Please enlightene us further. As you have told us what the gift is not, please tell us what it is.
3. Who told you that? Where is it written in the New Testmanet that tithing in done away with? Can I also bring to your attention that there were no levites at the time the first tithe was offered.

From my response above, I'm sure you are aware that I still maintain my stance. You all have continued to bring the tithe under the law, and I have shown you time and time again that it is not subject to it. Try and get this confusion out of your mind, then you will begin to see my point.

The "tithe predates the law" argument is a sheer fallacy. Is is based on the fact that in Genesis 14 Abraham gave a 'tithe' of spoils of war to Melchizedek. If this is what is being used to support tithing today (and not the "law" then the following questions/points arise:

1. Was Abraham under any command to give a "tithe" to Melchizedek?

2. Or did Abraham just do it of his own free will? In which case it was not (and is not now especially) compulsory or necessary.

3. Did Abraham ever give/pay "tithe" at any other time?

4. Did Abraham ever give/ pay "tithe" from his own property ---- apart from the spoils of war which were not his property (irrespective of the spurious argument that it was part of his "increase".

5. Even if it is accepted, only for argument's sake, that spoils of war were part of Abraham's property, what other time did he give/pay "tithe" from his own property --- or from any other property for that matter.

6. Point to one other person in the Bible who is recorded to have given/paid "tithe" before the law ----- yes, none.



The "tithe predates the law" argument is one of those diabolically clever but false and sometimes fraudulent arguments that false teachers (usually in the word of faith/prosperity gospel camp) have been using to brain-wash their followers. The fact is it has no biblical basis for use to pressurise people into giving/paying tithes today.

The Bible's standard for Christian giving is very simple: let each give as he decides in his own mind, not out of compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Very simple!

As was said before, there is no requirement to tithe. That is all, that is the end of the matter.

The sheer bravado of some to accuse those who understand the sacredness of their office of dubious manipulations of their flock sure beats me.  While there may be some who think godliness means gain, the generality I dare say serve the Lord with utmost sense of responsibility.  I am of the opinion too that it takes a dubious person to think others are always dubious.  So for you to think that these Pastors are just merely milking the flock tells me you are probably pissed off because you wish the money was coming your way and it isn't.

@Enigma,
Back to your response.

1.  If Abraham wasn't under obligation to give a tenth, why did he do it?  And why a tength I ask?
2.  If Abraham gave out of freewill, why would the scriptures consider it so imprtant that it is regarded that Levi also paid tithe through Abraham?
3.  We have no record in the Bible that Abraham paid tithe again at any other time.  But was it written expressly that he only paid it once?  Besides, tithing became necessary only because a Priest was on the scene.  If there is no preist, there will be no tithing.  So tell me, is there a priest in the New Testament today?
4.  You are very funny saying the spoils was not Abraham's property.  So are you accusing him of being a thief?  How can you take possession of that which isn't yours and have the audacity to even give it away.  Spoils of war are your property, plain and simple.  That is how it works.
5.  I have answered this point earlier.  As long as a Priest is on the scene, the tithe is offered as the gift aspect of their priestly ministry.
6.  Jacob for one vowed to pay, though we never have a record that he fufilled his vow. 

And who pressurises you to give?  I feel no pressure at all anywhere, rather I have been immensely blessed giving a tenth of all my increase to the Possessor of Heaven and Earth.  And God has blessed me severally for even going beyond that to give offerings and pay my other vows.  Do you know there are people who are so blessed today for giving a tength that they now are reverse tithers?  What I mean is they pay 90% of their income and only keep a tength for themselves.  That reminds me of Proverbs 11:24: There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.
And for your information, I pay my tithe freely with a cheerful heart.  I've had times that I've had to miss the church service but I still ensured I sent in my tithe becaue it has been such a blessing to me, and I do it with all excitement.

One thing I'd also like to bring to your attention is the fact that I can almost certainly say all who do not pay tithe never give up to a tength of their income to God.  But I ask, why should the Old Testmanet saints who lived in our shadow do better than us today in our giving?  And yet we claim now that our spirit, soul, body and all we have belond to God unlike the saints of old.

I have more scriptures to show you concerning the tithe, but since we are yet to go beyond the gift aspect of the priestly duties, I will just leave it till someone can at least provide me some answers. Your glaring neglect of this only shows me how much you regard the bible. I for one do not believe there is an idle word in the scriptures, and I consider this also a part of the scroptures.

Not all that call me father but those that do the will of GOD

TayoD,

Regards the "gift aspect" of the priestly duties ~ I have to say, you throw out a premise with no biblical basis, i.e. gift = tithe. You then take something that is nowhere shown in scripture and refuse to budge until we disprove it. If I did'nt no you better, I'd say you were just being willfully obstructive, or perhaps sensing the futility of your position, trying to force a technical draw.

But lets go back to scripture to see if we can resolve this conundrum.

Maybe Hebrews 9:9 and the surrounding verses may help;

9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience--

Gifts where only ever symbolic. The cost of total atonement, a perfect conscience and access to God (that's the whole point sir), was the blood of the Lamb. It speaks better things my brother. The one time offering,

And how about this;

Matthew 5
23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25

Would you equate the gift referenced here with the tithe? Surely the correct place for the tithe is the storehouse?

Or indeed this;

Matthew 18
18 And, 'Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.'

Since when did the gift (or tithe by your definition) become something placed on the altar, or sworn on?


God bless

Oh my brothers please leave this issue alone.

I cannot understand why we say Christ made all things new,we don't do animal sacrifices,abhor certain foods,don't keep to all the levitical laws yet single out tithes as a must do.

My advice,if you believe you owe tithes to God,give it cheerfully and don't look down on those who choose to believe that they ought to give freely without compulsion and the amount determined by them and their conscience.
False preachers even pick out verses of scri ptures to support their schemes.

Survey says only 3-6% of Christians pay tithes today as many who previously did admit that it was not scriptural so stopped doing so.
And they are not cursed with any curses since Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law.

If anyone is paying tithes as something they owe and can do it cheerfully,go ahead.
If you rather be a cheerful giver without compulsion on amount go ahead.
The bottom line is to give not on the name you call it.

If you give or tithe grudgingly,you might as well keep your money and buy a big mac or fried chicken with it cos there ain't no reawrd for it.

Monthly I pay my tithe to my stomach then thank GOD who provided the money after  visits to Fun places

God love cheerful giver like me.

babyosisi:
If you give or tithe grudgingly,you might as well keep your money and buy a big mac or fried chicken with it because there ain't no reawrd for it.[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]

End of Discussion!

@babyosisi

well said,

@everyone

i don't like seeing my pastor's favourite topic taking a back seat so keep it on top.

i'm afraid, i have to come out straight in your face, this time, TayoD, i may sound saucy, but i think you are, at best, bigoted and arrogant. Arguing with you is a sheer waste of time. i've got better things to do than that. you will be ignored.

@winteric,

What is ticking you off so much?  Abeg cool down o.  I have no problems with you and I wonder who is instigating this venom. 

If you want pay your tithe, if you want don't pay it.  Afterall all, all service to God must be done willingly.  Jesus said "whosever WILLS, let him come."

You are the one that has shown an intolerance to other person's belief and you have the temerity to call me bigoted. Na wa for you o.

Just read through most of this forum and realized this: I find it hard to believe that a Christian  can  spend this much time on a forum discussing tithes when there is so much work to be done. I am rather surprised to think that some of you with your foul language can honestly call yourselfs a Christian. If you be with Christ, you will become a new man. A giving, caring, loving Godly person who looks to Jesus for all your answers.   If you have a question, or questions, why ask  someone other than Jesus to show you truth. I for one wish you all a blessed day. I mean no harm, just want you to know that when you are with Christ, you become a new person, not someone who speaks foul language, argues the word of God or who condemns his brother. You become a soft heart, ready to give and willing to listen to God. You become ,,, whats the word I am looking for, oh yeah, "you become humble".  If you have answers regarding the word of God and his commandments, look to God. The bible also says that if you seek you shall find, if you asked it will be opened unto you. I feel that this forum is just a way  to express anger and to fight about the word of God. If you spend your time here for more than just a few brief minutes, perhaps you are wasting your time, and perhaps your time should be spent helping others and sharing Gods word. Or sharing time with your family, husbands, wifes, etc, 

God bless you all and I pray that you all find the truth.  I would say that If I can help in anyway,  just ask, but I am leaving this forum now. Hugs to you all,  In Christ, Scart000

10% of our earnings to give to GOD , really thats not uch to ask for.considering all the things HE has done for us , and yet to do, l never used to pay tithe ut when l started and have seen the goodness in it , give whole heartedly to the LORD and receive your plessings

Amen.

Pardon me all!
Anyone who argues about tithes has not tried it at any point in time i must tell you.
Its stupid arguing things that are clearly stated in the Bible.
If u don't pay tithes do not crucify thieves you are the same.
There are clear testimonies for those who pay tithes .
I'm a living witness.Peace!