₦airaland Forum

@huxley
Please always type God with a capital 'G' not small letter 'g'.
He is not an idol.

that is good but  do you know there will not be any synagogue you come across that wil not have upto £100m in cash at any one time also? you can never find a more grateful person than a jew to his God on planet earth.

again as we have all been sayingthis is not about tithing as in money or whatever you choose to do with %. it is about being grateful and thankful for the blessings god has bestowed.

it is good to reduce this tithing to the place you are taking it to but there is no argument that what you are seeking to keep could never have got to your hands but for the providence of the living God. i hope you acknowledge that always

pilgrim.1:
Someone also sent it to me by email: http://www.askelm.com/tithing/thi003.htm  

obinna5000:
@huxley
Please always type God with a capital 'G' not small letter 'g'.
He is not an idol.

God was his classmate at st andrews you forgot.

Because the original author may not have been you (KunleOshob), it would be inappropriate to quote you directly. But a few comments:

Thankfully, Jewish theologians know better than their Christian counterparts. They are well aware that only Levites have the right to receive tithe of the people. After all, the Jewish leaders have the Old Testament as their Scripture and that’s what it commands.

That simply shows the premise of that persuasion.

(a) The Jewish leaders do not possess the New Testament and neither could they partake of the blessings of the new covenant:

          Hebrews 13:10
          We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

(b) For anyone to follow the Levitical priesthood even today, they would first have to prepare themselves to do two basic things:

          ● they would first have to be circumcised:

          "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised,
            that he is a debtor to do the whole law."
            --  (Galatians 5:3)


          ● they would have to be present at Jerusalem:

          "Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose
            to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that
           I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices,
           your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand,
           and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD"
           --  (Deuteronomy 12:11)

Because people often address tithes only as a matter of the Levitical priesthood, they constantly fail to see anything else. I do not fault the rabbi's convictions - but we must understand that the rabbi's persuasion is not what defines the Christian testimony! the rabbi's persuasion does not define the Melchizedek priesthood! He may speak about the Levitical matters - but those of us who are persuaded to tithe are not in competition with the Levites over this matter! as Paul says:

            Hebrews 13:10 -
            "We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle."

If you keep setting all your hopes on the Levitical tabernacle and always use that as an excuse against tithe, you will constantly miss the issue for miles on end!  You need to ask yourself if the rabbi keeps the same Law - does he? Could he boast that he actually obeys the law of the old covenant - seeing that he is outside of Jerusalem where the shekina glory is no longer there today?

Please, think carefully before you continue to argue with "delight" against this matter.

Cheers.

JJYOU:
again as we have all been sayingthis is not about tithing as in money or whatever you choose to do with %. it is about being grateful and thankful for the blessings god has bestowed.

If it is not about money or % then stop calling it tithes, we know how the mordern day church defines tithes, we also know how the bible defined it. I think you and Pilgrim.1 are trying to introduce a new definition to tithes and that is the cause of this elongated debate.

@pilgrim.1
Again my dear you failed to show any christian directive or injuction that encourages or support tithing. And the blessings of the new convenat have absolutely nothing to do with tithing so making such inferals is at best mischiveous. And the people setting hopes on the levitcal priesthood as a basis for tithing are the the pastors and peachers who use it to deceive people into parting with their hard earned income. My dear i have come to realize that what you practise is not tithing (at least from the biblical and church's diffrent perspectives) even though you choose to call it tithes your definition and meaning of tithes just don't gel with the biblical or church views( that is why nobody seems to understand you). What you pracise is free will offerings cause you are giving freelly a set proportion of your income towards God's work. _{I am still waiting for you to tell me the difference between tithes and offerings}
However the bible NT makes it clear that givng to God is the same as giving to the needy, infact this was one of the central themes of christ's gospel. he never for once even preached about giving to the temple talkless of paying tithes. Now my question to you as a christian: which is more important to follow the teachings of Christ, to follow the teachings of man or to just do what you are "persuaded to do"

KunleOshob:
If it is not about money or % then stop calling it tithes, we know how the mordern day church defines tithes, we also know how the bible defined it. I think you and Pilgrim.1 are trying to introduce a new definition to tithes and that is the cause of this elongated debate.

Can you please define it the narrow way you have always done and let us see again whether you adulators agree with you?  I will take a loooooong break in your case and then when you do so, I shall come back and give you more than 3 dozens of quotes from your own adulators to see how you would react. Shalom.

KunleOshob:
@pilgrim.1
Again my dear you failed to show any christian directive or injuction that encourages or support tithing.

Lol, please attend to my simple question on Hebrews 7:8 and then we shall move forward. I may have missed it, so please correct me.

I really don't know what you are trying to infer by perpetually refering to Melchizedek whose singular and mystrious appearance in the bible is only his meeting with Abaraham in genesis which was refered to in Hebrew.Are you saying that melchizedek is now your saviour or your intermediary to God Is their any other record that Melchizedek collected tithes on a regular basis? Asie melchizedek was offered the tithes in his position as a king and not becuase he was a priest(that was the custom in those days) Paul compared Melchizedek to Christ in that scripture just to express to the jews of that time (who were familiar with the history of Melchizedek) that Jesus christ was greater than their greatest ancestor and progenitor Abraham. It was never even remotely meant to set and example on tithing talkless of promoting or encouraging it. It still remains very Glaringly clear that tithing was never preached by paul or any of the apostles, Jesus christ never preached it and it was never part of the "great commision". It was never even practised in christianity until after 6 centuries of the faith. My dear this your example of Melchizedek (who has no place in christian doctrine) just won't fly. it is as if you are trying to grasp at straws when there is no substance to hold on to any more. And just to remind you again how do you relate a one -off tithes of spoils of war (which was common practse amongst the babylonians in those days) to the so - called vrsion ofregular income tithing being practised today?

2 Timothy 3:7 International Standard Version (©2008)
These women are always studying but are never able to arrive at a full knowledge of the truth.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
These women are always studying but are never able to recognize the truth.

King James Bible
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

American King James Version
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

American Standard Version
ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Bible in Basic English
Ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of what is true.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth.

Darby Bible Translation
always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

English Revised Version
ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Webster's Bible Translation
Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Weymouth New Testament
and are always learning something new, and yet are never able to arrive at real knowledge of the truth.

World English Bible
always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Young's Literal Translation
always learning, and never to a knowledge of truth able to come,

@KunleOshob,

KunleOshob:
I really don't know what you are trying to infer by perpetually refering to Melchizedek whose singular and mystrious appearance in the bible is only his meeting with Abaraham in genesis which was refered to in Hebrew.

I'm not trying to infer anything than what you read in that verse. Was that question too hard to answer?

You see, I have spent time looking at most of the arguments from tithe-opposers: some of them sound good; others are just way over the top! Also same could be said about some who tithe - some good, others do not even know why they do so. However, while my views are not final and binding on anyone, I have shared them simply, drawn my persausions clearly from the Word by showing that my persausions are not predicated upon the Levitical system! WHY is that too difficult for you guys to understand and always seek to draw attention back to the same Levitical system every single time?!?

My views have always been consistent - you can go and check them out. There are clear pointers for reasons why I'm persuaded to tithe; and I've shared them. Questions and criticisms have been proffered and I have never shied away from any one of those questions - my answers were no less drawn from Scripture. However, even when you guys critiqued my persuasions, you could not do so from Scripture (minus your own case where you made an attempt), and others were just being dismissive. No worries - but when I asked questions about Abraham and Melchizedek, all I have seen so far are excuses, whinging, churching, and outright condemnation from non-tithers. . . some referring to it as "pagan", others too miffed that they declared it was a "scandal" - even some were so magnanimous to say tithers are sinning and going down the road to HELL. I know I've mentioned these highlights often - and I keep mentioning them for as long as those guys remain unrepentant of their excuses in dissing Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek.

If you had no answers, I can well bear with you - but that would only go down as testimony that you don't even know what you're arguing and have been making the same mistake churcning out expressly the same baseless arguments of those who see only the Levitical priesthood!

KunleOshob:
Are you saying that melchizedek is now your saviour or your intermediary to God

Another fausse patte - you know already that I never once made Melchizedek my Saviour. Besides, I have said openly that tithes does not save or justify anybody, whether in the OT or NT - and tithes does not send anybody to HELL!! Because people cannot sit down to reason, that is why they make these wild statements to the extreme as if I ever made such an inference to make Melchizedek my Saviour! Haba!! You guys never cease to amaze me with your desperations! It's all good - when people have no answers for what they shout most, the desperation sets in!

KunleOshob:
It still remains very Glaringly clear that tithing was never preached by paul or any of the apostles, Jesus christ never preached it and it was never part of the "great commision".

More noise - did I ever make tithing a requirement of the great commission? You don dey spin out of control again. . wetin dey bite you? That excuse of Jesus never "preached it" is a retire excuse that has been wasted already - please try something else and don't recycle stale news (Matthew 23:23). This frantic display sounds like those who go to the extreme to say that tithes were not mentioned even once in the NT - and yet they say so with a Ph.D!

Dear Kunle bros, I asked you a simple question - I came back to read only excuses from you.

No worries. I have asked another one earlier: is it not true that most of the doctrines in our Christian faith are defined by the same Law of Moses (which you called "dead and buried"? And that one just went past with a glib quote of the whole of Galatians 3 (or 5?).

Yet another similar question: what do you and your folks make of Romans 3:31 - "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law"?

Altogether, there are about 23 nuggets of questions which I have offered non-tithers. . while you tried to make some attempts (as well TV01 did), I did not see where you guys actually answered those questions. Every single questions you proffered, I have answered. . and still open to more queries and critiques, no shakings! Wetin do una wey body dey bite you so? Why is it so difficult to answer simple questions and yet so easy to shout the loudest about condemning tithes?

Bros, tithes is not by force - tithers are not asking a dime from the pockets of non-tithers. You no wan tithe? Fine - nobody will arrest you or come knocking on your conscience!

Blessings.

More on pagan origins of tithes




The culture of decima or tithe (old English teogothian) was common among the Babylon. The discovery of old clay tablets in 1966 however reveals that it was prevalent long before the civilization of the Babylon. Tithe or tenth part was a customary tax in ancient Egypt, Syria and Greece. Cyrus caused his soldiers to devote tenth of their booty to Zeus. Zoroaster imposed tithe on traders and market dealers for the welfare of the priests.

The practice of tithe is known from Mesopotamia, Syria, Greece and as far as to the west as the Phoenician city of Carhage. Early texts associated the tithe with support of the king and of temple of the royal house, vide Amos (4:4, 7:1, 7:13). The early Biblical reference of the tithe is in Genesis (14:20 and 28:22), and also in the time of Abraham and Moses, vide Number (18:21). The Bible states that the Israelites paid tithes to the Levites; the Levites in turn paid a tithe to the high priest and his family, while the entire tribe of Levi including the family of Aaron, are here represented by the apostle as paying tithe through Abraham to Melekizedek. In writing of the exalted priesthood of Christ, the apostle refers to that distinguished personage Melekizedek, saying, "Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils."

Clement, Justian Martyr, Cyprian Jerome, Herodotus, Zenophon and many other writers of the early centuries of the Christian era, testify that the tithing was known and practiced by ancient people through the apostolic age centuries following. Until the later times of the empire, it was the custom of Italy to devote tithe to their deity. The Saxons also religiously offered tenth of all their captives to the god Neptune. Zenophon on returning from his Asian expedition consecrated the tithe of his spoils to Apollo.

Tithe was a common practice of both Jews and Christians. "Pay tithe and be rich" was an old proverb quite current among the Jews. The Carthaginians acquired the custom of tithe from Tyre. The Arabian merchants were by law required to give one-tenth of their frankincense to the priest for sacrifice before their god. The primary purpose of the tithing was not to raise funds, but to build character; to put the Supreme Being, and not self, first in all transactions.

Its explicit reference is not found in the New Testament. It however became common among the early Christians during 6th century. The Council of Tours in 567 A.D. and the Council of Macon in 585 A.D. began to advocate it. We must pass the long list of testimony of the early Christian Fathers, except to mention that Clement of Alexandria wrote, "The tithes of the fruits and of the flocks taught piety towards the deity. For it was from these and the first fruits that the priests were maintained. We now, therefore, understand that we are instructed in piety, and in liberality, and in justice, and in humanity by the law." In sum, H.Grotius writes in Ancient World (London, 1968, p. 171) that, "From the most ancient days, one-tenth was a portion due to God."

The tradition of the tithe is found in the world religions. The Hinduism calls it dasas, Buddhism, dashans, Judaism, ma'asher, Christianity, tithe, Shikhism, dasam and ushr in Islam. The payment of ushr (tithe) is one of the most fundamental prescriptions of Islam, referred in the Koran on 31 different occasions.

Sources of revenue in Islam :

The principal sources of revenue in Islam are ushr, jaziya, zakat and khums.
Ushr : Ushr means tenth part, a tax levied only on the Muslims as a land revenue chiefly on agriculture.
Jazya : It is a poll-tax charged on non-Muslims in place of ushr.
Zakat : It is a poor-tax @ 2

source: http://www.articlesbase.com/religion-articles/dasond-395974.html

@pilgirm.1
On the contrary you are the one who keeps dancing around potent issues which we bring up only to state weak scriptures such as Matthew 23:23 to support tithing. It is very clear from that scripture that Jesus was not preaching tithing, he was in fact ridicling the pharisees(who were under the law and oblidge to pay ithe) about how they paid attention to minor issues of the law like tithing while they ignored the weightier issues. There is NO suggestion in that passage that Jesus was recommending it to his follwers like he frequently preached we give to the poor( which for a true christian is far more important than giving to the church) cos that is what christ preached not giving to the church and definitely not tithes so stop trying to confuse issues here. Even though the melchizadek/abraham's excuse you constantly give to support tithing is not a pointer, instruction, law or commandment that encourages tithing i would not make an issue here. Only that what you are doing is not tithing but free will offerings which we non-tithers also practise and believe in. _{i wonder why you are soo fixated on the word tithe} Aslo why is melchizedek's/abraham's example more important o you than the teachings of Christ whose teachings on giving was always directed at giving to the needy never once did he overtly preach on giving to the church/temple even though he acknowledged it i.e the case of the widow's mite

@ pilgrims.1  seriously dear sister. i think you have done al you need to do on this matter. stop wasting your precious time on this matter. let them save their ,omey.  Jesus is coming soon. they may need the money to take the alternative flight if they miss the rapture ( not for not paying tithe) i must add.

Josh,

i cant believe you'd say that we would miss the Lord because of Tithe

Gamine! Gamine!! Gamine!!! your old age is beginning to affect you my dear. you need to read what i said again and see the words i put in bracket.  you guess i still love you

You are the old one na

why transfer attributes

so you knew you were telling fibs against an old man? may this not be remembered against you my dear

JJYOU:
so you knew you were telling fibs against an old man?

Gamine, no mind this bobo o jare!
He's bent on putting you on a guilt trip! Hehe. .

KunleOshob:
@pilgirm.1
On the contrary you are the one who keeps dancing around potent issues which we bring up only to state weak scriptures such as Matthew 23:23 to support tithing.

No wahala. Your excuses are not to be mistaken for answers to the questions I asked and which still remain unanswered. As JJYOU has said:

JJYOU:
@ pilgrims.1 seriously dear sister. i think you have done al you need to do on this matter. stop wasting your precious time on this matter. let them save their ,omey. Jesus is coming soon.

I had thought some more substance would emerge from your persuasions, KunleOshob. . but finding none, may I gracefully take a leave and prepare my heart for my next tithes!

@Josh



@Pilgrim,

eh , prepare your tithes ooh

better to give than to recieve!

I've been following this thread and I've noticed that :

(a) definitions have been altered from their original intentions e.g. tithes of all the land = agricultural produce, but has a new meaning in modern times which is MONEY

(b) the context and purpose of tithes which were clearly stated in the Law is not what it is today as practiced in the church

(c) we christians have not been studying our bibles well and prefer to hear from the pulpit (some of the people on the pulpit are either ignorant or mischievious )

(d) we christians do not know where Judaism ends and where Christianity begins

(e) some of us christians are not students of history,hence do not see the need to research the origins of things and understand why some things were put in the bible

(f) some of us christians are afraid that if they don't tithe, they will not be blessed (some even equate blessings with money),hence they need to 'feed' God every Sunday or whatever day the tithe bag/tray/envelope is passed around so that He won't be mad at them and withdraw His blessings


While I was going through all the posts and enjoying the 'serpentine meandering' (to borrow some1's phrase here in describing such wuru-wuru to the point) of some posts, I noticed that the question of tithes or no-tithing had been addressed before the writer of Hebrews (Paul or maybe me). The issue had been addressed while the church was being 'set up'.

Pilgrim, this is for you. Could you please enlighten us on the book of Acts Chapter 15? Here it is :



The World English Bible
previous pagemenunext page
Acts: Chapter 15

1. Some men came down from Judea and taught the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised after the custom of Moses, you can't be saved."

2. Therefore when Paul and Barnabas had no small discord and discussion with them, they appointed Paul and Barnabas, and some others of them, to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.

3. They, being sent on their way by the assembly, passed through both Phoenicia and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles. They caused great joy to all the brothers. {The word for "brothers" here and where the context allows may also be correctly translated "brothers and sisters" or "siblings."}

4. When they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the assembly and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all things that God had done with them.

5. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses."

6. The apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.

7. When there had been much discussion, Peter rose up and said to them, "Brothers, you know that a good while ago God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the nations should hear the word of the Good News, and believe.

8. God, who knows the heart, testified about them, giving them the Holy Spirit, just like he did to us.

9. He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

10. Now therefore why do you tempt God, that you should put a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11. But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, {TR adds "Christ"} just as they are."

12. All the multitude kept silence, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul reporting what signs and wonders God had done among the nations through them.

13. After they were silent, James answered, "Brothers, listen to me.

14. Simeon has reported how God first visited the nations, to take out of them a people for his name.

15. This agrees with the words of the prophets. As it is written,

16. 'After these things I will return. I will again build the tent of David, which has fallen. I will again build its ruins. I will set it up,

17. That the rest of men may seek after the Lord; All the Gentiles who are called by my name, Says the Lord, who does all these things. {Amos 9:11-12}

18. All his works are known to God from eternity.'

19. "Therefore my judgment is that we don't trouble those from among the Gentiles who turn to God,

20. but that we write to them that they abstain from the pollution of idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.

21. For Moses from generations of old has in every city those who preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

22. Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole assembly, to choose men out of their company, and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas: Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, chief men among the brothers. {The word for "brothers" here and where the context allows may also be correctly translated "brothers and sisters" or "siblings."}

23. They wrote these things by their hand: "The apostles, the elders, and the brothers, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: greetings.

24. Because we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law,' to whom we gave no commandment;

25. it seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose out men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,

26. men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who themselves will also tell you the same things by word of mouth.

28. For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay no greater burden on you than these necessary things:

29. that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality, from which if you keep yourselves, it will be well with you. Farewell."

30. So, when they were sent off, they came to Antioch. Having gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter.

31. When they had read it, they rejoiced over the encouragement.

32. Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, encouraged the brothers with many words, and strengthened them.

33. After they had spent some time there, they were sent back with greetings from the brothers to the apostles.

34. {Some manuscripts add: But it seemed good to Silas to stay there.}

35. But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.

36. After some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let's return now and visit our brothers in every city in which we proclaimed the word of the Lord, to see how they are doing."

37. Barnabas planned to take John, who was called Mark, with them also.

38. But Paul didn't think that it was a good idea to take with them someone who had withdrawn from them in Pamphylia, and didn't go with them to do the work.

39. Then the contention grew so sharp that they separated from each other. Barnabas took Mark with him, and sailed away to Cyprus,

40. but Paul chose Silas, and went out, being commended by the brothers to the grace of God.

41. He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the assemblies.

@MALAMA,

I trust you're having a very good evening?

Actually, I was going to graciously take a leave from this thread and play around on some other subject, because I feel that I've exhausted this subject and no fresh questions were forth coming. . until then, I was hoping that only fresh questions would bring me in once again - but yours actually have been addressed. Shall I repeat myself yet again? No worries.

MALAMA:
(a) definitions have been altered from their original intentions e.g. tithes of all the land = agricultural produce, but has a new meaning in modern times which is MONEY

Please enlarge your heart and don't fall victim of the same slant where legalists often set their eyes alone on the Levitical system. It turns out that every single time people try to discuss the subject of tithes, they see nothing beyond the Levitical system - and yet for all that, they never are able to see what exactly the Word teaches before they accuse others of being myopic! If I were you, I would not be so assuming before alleging statements as above.

MALAMA:
(b) the context and purpose of tithes which were clearly stated in the Law is not what it is today as practiced in the church

See what I mean? MALAMA, you have made the biggest mistake of your life on this subject - and this makes me wonder if indeed you have actually been following this thread. The same problem as others found themselves is what you have made yourself here - starting on the LAW - you won't get very far on that! Trust me.

MALAMA:
(c) we christians have not been studying our bibles well and prefer to hear from the pulpit (some of the people on the pulpit are either ignorant or mischievious )

Okay - ignorant or mischievious is not quite an intelligent way to enter a discussion though.

MALAMA:
(d) we christians do not know where Judaism ends and where Christianity begins

Okay O. . I hear. I'm a Christian and I think I know precisely where to draw the line - and I have shared precisely on that point MANY TIMES!

MALAMA:
(e) some of us christians are not students of history,hence do not see the need to research the origins of things and understand why some things were put in the bible

No worries - when you share we shall all benefit, abi?

MALAMA:
(f) some of us christians are afraid that if they don't tithe, they will not be blessed (some even equate blessings with money),hence they need to 'feed' God every Sunday or whatever day the tithe bag/tray/envelope is passed around so that He won't be mad at them and withdraw His blessings

"Some of us Christians" - if that is how you describe that set of thinkers wrapped with fear and the "need to 'feed' God", please count me out. I have no worries for those who feel themselves having such a need to do so. I wonder why people who discuss this subject have to make a very poor case for themselves when they start out like this - this just simply tells me that such thinkers don't get very far before they begin to wear themselves out on what they propose. I don't recommend that you adopt that approach, MALAMA.

MALAMA:
While I was going through all the posts and enjoying the 'serpentine meandering' (to borrow someone's phrase here in describing such wuru-wuru to the point) of some posts, I noticed that the question of tithes or no-tithing had been addressed before the writer of Hebrews (Paul or maybe me). The issue had been addressed while the church was being 'set up'.

Do you have to resort to such lingo? Why this slant about "serpentine meandering"? The thing I can't understand with such an attitude here is that even when nobody is forcing you guys to tithe by any means, you cannot even afford to exhibit the grace to address issues without recourse to such emotional expressions. I can safely say that there is something really disturbing the heart of non-tithers that they often start out with such slurs - what in the world is disturbing you guys? If it is not this lifestyle of slurring others with such lingo, then your brethren will condemn tithers to HELL! What really is at the root of such a disaffection?

Can we afford to discuss without starting out with such an attitude? Is that how to express godliness -even when you don't agree with others? I hope we can afford to discuss and not resort to such an adventure?

Cheers.

@MALAMA,

MALAMA:
Pilgrim, this is for you. Could you please enlighten us on the book of Acts Chapter 15? Here it is :

What actually is your query in that chapter? Are you expecting me to make a verse-by-verse exegesis of the whole chapterof Acts 15? I don't think you would be happy to do so yourself - so please point out what precisely you would like me to address, and then I would oblige you.

Warmest regards.

Pilgrim,
thanx dear.I've been having a gr8 time this evening. Why were you bothered about the phrase 'serpentine meandering'? It was as if I touched a nerve there but I don't recall refering to a particular person. I said 'some posts' which includes those for and against tithes . You also took my itemised points personally. Funny,they were not addressed to you in particular. They were my conclusions from all the posts.

You may not do a verse-by-verse exegesis. You also may not go through the whole chapter,just restrict urself to the first 29 verses and let me know what you think about them. Take note of the highlighted parts.
What disturbs us non-tithers (and Huxley if I may add) about tithing in the church is that it is non-scriptural for us christians, it has been used to put 'fear' into us (Mal 3:10) and it isn't even practiced the way it was meant to be if truly christians have to tithe.
Let's go back to Acts 15: 1-29.

@MALAMA,

MALAMA:
Pilgrim,
thanx dear.I've been having a great time this evening. Why were you bothered about the phrase 'serpentine meandering'? It was as if I touched a nerve there but I don't recall refering to a particular person. I said 'some posts' which includes those for and against tithes . You also took my itemised points personally. Funny,they were not addressed to you in particular. They were my conclusions from all the posts.

Were you actually hoping you would touch a nerve in me? Lol, actually, such matters are of little consequence to me; just felt that since I don't remember you and I discussing on this before, it was not ideal to read you weigh in by recourse to such lingo. the thread has suffered the heat of such already, and it's always been my aim to tone down such expressions on either side.

MALAMA:
You may not do a verse-by-verse exegesis. You also may not go through the whole chapter,just restrict yourself to the first 29 verses and let me know what you think about them. Take note of the highlighted parts.

I think 29 verses in that chapter is still not actually directing a particular concern. Even if I had to deal with just the highlighted verses, it's still not clear what you're pointing to, and I would not like to run the risk of trailing off the opposite direction of what you're seeking.

MALAMA:
What disturbs us non-tithers (and Huxley if I may add) about tithing in the church is that it is non-scriptural for us christians, it has been used to put 'fear' into us (Mal 3:10) and it isn't even practiced the way it was meant to be if truly christians have to tithe.

Well, I don't think it should be a worry to huxley, since he is neither Christian nor Jew.

And as regards the "fear" from Malachi 3:10, I already addressed that issue some time earlier (in post #1356 and post #1357), and referred to it in summary.

Bottomline is that for many of us who tithe, we do so without any fear and no one is forcing it out of our hands. Whether it is done this way or that, is open to various interpretations - whether for or against.

MALAMA:
Let's go back to Acts 15: 1-29.

I would like to do so as soon as I know what particular concerns you're hoping to address.

Regards.

pilgrim.1, sleekymag & JJ,

Is your tithe no longer, specifically, a tenth (10%) of your earnings?

Hi anonimi,

Let me answer your question first, and then explain my answers.

anonimi:
pilgrim.1, sleekymag & JJ,

Is your tithe no longer, specifically, a tenth (10%) of your earnings?

Answers:

   1. My tithes are not based on the Levitical rites.

   2. My tithes are not specifically a tenth (10%) of my earnings.

   3. Besides my tithes, there are other occasions I also give consistently


Explanations:

   1. I have said numerous times that my tithes are not a matter of fulfilling the Levitical rites
       - in other words, they are not based on any obligation to fulfill Judaism.

   2. I have said numerous times that tithes are not always a matter of 10%
       - for in the OT, we find that tithes are calculated in various percentages,
         and non-tithers who have tried to argue this matter are themselves
         giving us different figures between 1%, 10%, 23.3%
         and even 40% in total value (as Russell Kelly once said). So then,
         if non-tithers are inconsistent between all these figures and not just 10%
         then why is it that the spotlight should always be on tithers to explain
         what non-tithers have themselves not been able to clarify?

   3. Anyone who tithes is a matter of their own choice to do so as they have
         purposed in their hearts for themselves and from their own pockets.
         We do not ask those who are non-tithers or opposed to tithing to
         give us anything from their pockets for our tithes.

I hope these few answers would help? Cheers.

My darling irrepressable Pilgrim.1

pilgrim.1:
Hi anonimi,

Let me answer your question first, and then explain my answers.

Answers:
   
   2. My tithes are not specifically a tenth (10%) of my earnings.

Explanations:

     2. I have said numerous times that tithes are not always a matter of 10%
       
I hope these few answers would help? Cheers.

I have noted your answer to my question above. You may wish to define what you pay as tithe.
I will wait for the response of sleekymag and JJ before I give a concise and specific reply.

anonimi:
I have noted your answer to my question above. You may wish to define what you pay as tithe.
I will wait for the response of sleekymag and JJ before I give a concise and specific reply.

@Pilgrim
While you are at it kindly remember to explain the difference between offerings and the tithes you pay.

@ anonimi,

Is your tithe no longer, specifically, a tenth (10%) of your earnings?

The bible doesn't condemn tithing, not even in the new testament. Besides, you can learn from the Law without being under the law (as in, learn from the principles behind the actions of people in the old testament without automaticaly ritualising their actions in your present day life [there's a mystery there, which not many can see].

Based on the above, personally i tithe 10% of my earnings apart from a few other things, that i've developed for myself. It's all a matter of faith contacted from the word.