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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 1:30pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
zodiakzax: shut up there, he is called a servant just accept and stop making excuse that doesn't hold water . U mean Jesus was raised with that dishonored body? Does it have blood since flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God ?/ |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 1:45pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: stop this pretending, it cannot help you . You are a trinitarian just admit it are you scared ? You said Jehovah witness are confused , Trinitarians are even far confused , Do you know there is an Angel in the Old testament that answered the name Yahweh which cause confusion among trinitarians some saying he ia Jesus others saying he isn't. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Research it. Now if they can claim an Angel is Jesus , only to use their second mouth to attack Jehovah's witnesses , what does that tell You ? Rubbish . see what got question a trinitarian website said about this Angel of the Lord here : https://www.gotquestions.org/amp/angel-of-the-Lord.html Trinitarians are confused bunch. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 2:00pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Barristter07: Bro , I said Gruni1234 is a pretender and underground trinitarian on this thread , an objective researcher would have asked questions as Tatime said to uncover areas which might not have been evident to an average reader , Bro many trinitarians believe that there is an Angel In the old testament whose identity is Jesus . If you have the time check this trinitarian website , and you too Gruni1234, https://crossexamined.org/who-is-the-angel-of-the-lord/ it says in part it becomes evident that the angel of the Lord is none other than the pre-incarnate Christ Himself |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 2:14pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Well tough love-is sometimes mistaken as hatred-I suppose what you call hatred isn't really hatred! No-one likes God when we read the bible out of context: sometimes we have to separate ourselves from our own flesh and blood, it's healthy to do so, if you see your brother sinning, do you sin with him? People disown family members all the time, we come and go, we either forgive and forget, sometimes we don't see each other for ever-it doesn't mean we have disowned them-neither love them, it means we have decided to make our way in life-we either get married, have Children, or it's work related that separates us from family members. Well my family refuse to believe-it doesn't matter how many times I have witnessed to them, I still love them, but sometimes disowning your flesh and blood-is not as bad as what it sounds. Adults do make choices 'and If I had chosen to stay with family members, then I am sharing in their sins, since I have been with God-I no-longer do the things I did before I believed, I had made a choice-do I stay sinning with my family-sex drugs and rock n roll-all do I have a healthier life to look forward too. I still love my family, they respect my decision, as I do theirs. It's life, but when God preachers it, you don't accept it, but when the world practices it, you don't recognise it. We all have friends that don't believe, I have friends on the wrong side of the law-we respect each other-but sometimes someone has to draw the line, do I continual drinking with them, drank on the side walk, do I use drugs with them, just to be accepted, all do I use my faith as a good example-that they may 'one day realise-their lives are shorten every time they pump sickness into their unhealthy bodies. The truth had set me free-this is how much I love those around me...What would you do, would you be a good example, to your friends-family or would you watch them die like the JW's do? "I would just like to add, JW's do things different, that does not line up to the scriptures! I have witnessed wife's husbands and Children crying out for their love ones to be returned back to them, because the Watchtower gives them a life sentence and separates them from their marriages-families and love ones, because one refuses to acknowledge their Watchtower beliefs.. {Mark 10:7-9} But Jesus said: ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. Gruni1234: |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 2:37pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: First of my dear Friend, if I'm a Trinitarian or Unitarian doesnt really matter to me if I become a Christian. What matters to me is I follow the precept of the bible and the bible alone. If the bible tells me My God is a truine God so be it. If it doesnt so be it. I dont need anyone,group or organization to tell me how to know God.I have a brain to think and I've gone to school enough to understand English, what,how and when the bible means. Your fellows are doing a poor job defending their beliefs , they say one and then change it to mean another. I am a witness to this, I can read and write and know logic. So what you say doesn't really matter to me. I see the way zodiakzax deals with you in verbal assault which I'm against but it seems it could just be The right means to explore given how you just attacked me. Now get this right as your other colleague got it wrong.I want you to know most atheist do not believe the bible is fabricated, we only don't believe there's a God. Christians turn to Scholars, Atheist scholars who are very educated in the Greek language for council, they help in the Greek text and language as to what it means or not. These scholars mostly accept John 1:1 as the word being divine, and as divine means God. Your assertion that it's "a god" clearly misrepresent the verse. Many Atheist greek scholars accept it to be God not "a god" does that make them a believer that God exists? Get your facts right Young Sir. 2 Likes |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 2:41pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: I showed you something, instead of addressing it you ran to John 1:1 translation . very biased individual . on this issue of John 1:1 you have no point , Someone already pointed out that " a god " is not a wrong translation of theos . so be it. address the issue I present to you at first |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 2:44pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: Coming from your fellow trinitarians , what ya say ? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by brocab: 2:48pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234:So if you refuse to believe in the above, then how do you believe below? Gruni1234:Christians don't turn to Atheist, Christians turn to God! It was the Holy Spirit that gave the Disciples insights how to write the bible..And it is the Holy Spirit that gives us knowledge how to understand the bible. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 3:01pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: Here lies another problem, Jehovah Witnesses are also Christians, yet you are against a truine God, Trinitarians fighting among themselves etc doesn't matter, all matters is what the bible says and if presented well enough then you accept what it teaches. With a clear mind and an educated one Hebrews was so clear to point out that Jesus was and is not an angel. I'm not unwise to know what that means. If there's nothing clear on whether Jesus was the Angel that answers the name Yahweh or not that's not an issue to me dear friend. Besides that is in the Torah and who best can we learn the Torah from except the Jews themselves. Who did they believe this angel was? Was it the Messiah to come? Or not. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 3:12pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
brocab: That is not the case Young Sir, the new testament was written in Greek. To translate and transliterate to English you need scholars. The Apostles of Jesus did not write in English, they wrote medieval greek. Scholars including Atheist Scholars helped in some versions of the bible, especially in the meanings of the Greek words. You can do a search yourself. You see I've dealt with Christians for some time now and I've really met good open minded ones. For example the Witnesses are saying Jesus is an angel, I was presented with two debaters on both sides trying to defend their claim. Evidence provided was Hebrews that says Jesus was not an angel, I don't think I need your Holy Spirit to understand this. The understanding is clear enough. What you might say I need your Holy Spirit for is to show me that God exists, show me God's power which he is yet to do, that's if God exists. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 3:17pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
brocab:You're wrong my friend, because 90% of atheists today were formerly claiming Christians until they noticed that their so called men of God are doing nothing but making fortunes from their stupidity! There's no way you can be a Christian without knowing how to preach and teach with efficiency. Many following Jehovah's Witnesses organization but who wants to be independent of control became atheists and that's exactly what happened to many who were also blindly following pastors. For your information, the only tangible reason for joining atheism is to be free from control, some will selfishly start their own church so that instead of being led, they will lead others. The bitter truth is that many of your so called pastors knew so much about Jehovah's Witnesses but they choose to start their own. 1992 when i was studying the Bible with JWs, Mr David Oyedepo now titled "Bishop" was also studying with the same person, it was the same book "You can live forever in Paradise on earth" that the JW was using to conduct the study until Oyedepo started behaving funny. That's when the JW stopped studying with him, he said "it's like the man is determined to become rich as a pastor rather serve the true God" So he knew the truth but choose to sell his conscience for riches! Matthew 6:24 Whoever has ears let him listen. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 3:19pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: I know you will try to evade, like you said that you are following the Bible, so since an angel is called God, even Yahweh , Why are you lots shouting about Thomas calling Jesus My God Can u see you are making a lost case . since angels are called Yahweh , the Triune God is False , why not add this Angels to the league of persons in a God ? Hebrews said Jesus has been made better than angels . self explanatory . that context explains that Chapter. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 3:20pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: I have nothing more to say, John 1:1 was an example to show you that Atheist believe in the translation as God not "a god" to tell you that an Atheist doesn't believe in God even though he was called upon. He could have just rejected them and say go away I don't believe in God, but you see we are more civil and learned to accommodate everyone. Afwtrall you can't prove God exists so why do I fight with you. God exists yet there's hunger, murder of innocent children. Then he's no God. But it's obvious our communication,logics and comprehension of simple English language is quite on a different level. So with your case my dear friend, I have nothing more to say. You are just confirming everything zodiakzax says about your lack of intelligence. 2 Likes |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 3:28pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234:Which zodiakzax ? . you believe something is right doesn't mean its correct, if you are intelligent you would have tell us if a god is a wrong translation of that Greek word . is it? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 3:30pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: is " a god " a wrong translation ? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 3:44pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: You see my dear, first of all let me make this clear. The book of Hebrews makes it clear that Jesus was and is not an angel. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong according to what Hebrews says. I will challenge a Christian Trinitarian or not to prove otherwise. I am presented with the fact and truth and i go by it, I see A and know it's A, so why do you tell me it's B when what you are using to support your claim is base on assumption and speculations. Evidence I have of your own bible says He's not An angel. Now if Yahweh gives his name to an angel, does that make that Angel Yahweh? Hebrews tells us no angel was begotten of God. Only Jesus was/is. That's a fact presented to me. And I will go by it. Unless the bible contradicts itself. Do you know it as an angel that appeared to Moses in the burning bush? Do you know it was an angel that told Abraham not to kill Isaac? You Christians assume so much yet know little about the Torah. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 3:51pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: Yes my dear. It is, the appropriate should have been God or divine. No one had the right to assume it was a smaller god. I have done enough search into that when OneJ asked me to, and from all angles including Atheist greek scholars, the word was divine, that should be left alone as it is or as God. You become a polytheist which your very religion is against. Polytheism is the believe in many gods. So if you say the word is a god, you them say there are two gods. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 4:35pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234:When the inspired writers were penning down those words, was there any difference between the way they rendered the Gods of the nations to distinguish their own God,apart from using names? Whether GOD or God or god,the Hebrews rendered all the same way. So if JEHOVAH the God of Israel is rendered as GOD, then Zeus the Greecian deity is also rendered GOD. It's the translators that started the capital and small letters. Therefore John 1:1 could be rendered "in the beginning was the word and the word was with GOD and the word was GOD" while Exodus 7:1 could also be rendered "look i have made you GOD before Pharaoh and Aaron your brother shall be your Prophet" It's the translators including the watchtower that's adding meaning to the inspired writings based on their respective interpretations! So whenever you see the title "god" know today that those who pronounced it back then made no distinction between the deities whether it's that of Israel or Egypt. It's the WORKS or FRUITS of each God that proves who is superior! According to 1Corinthians 8:5 "there are many GODS and LORDS" depending on how high the worshippers tries to esteem their deity,and while the worshippers from different deities are practicing interfaith as in doing everything in common, Christians only worship one GOD:meaning they have just "one doctrine and teaching" unlike other people who aren't stable in their ideologies regarding GOD! |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Gruni1234: 5:09pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
TATIME: My dear Tatime, you were an ex Muslim right? You believed in one God right? Muslims are not polytheist right? Now imagine in the quran there are two Allahs, that will go against the beliefs of Islam. Now I looked up the Corithians 8: 4-5 you mentioned and it's clear that the writer said unto them meaning you Christians there's but one God. So Christians are not Polytheist. You see i looked up this Moses Pharoah issue and the right translation is "Like God", going through the Torah and independent of the bible, it is clear that God said he will make Moses Like God to Pharoah not God. You can be like someone and yet not be that person. You can look it up yourself. Christians having one God in that context my dear Tatime is not to mean one religion and one doctrine. It simply means One God. Others believe there many gods, that's their belief but unto you the Christians there's but one God and not many, to say there are many then like the Greeks you are polytheist. Greeks do not believe in One God, they believe in many gods so if John 1:1 is to be translated "a god" then it means you Christians are also polytheist my dear. But if its left as " the word was divine" then it is God because if not that then Polytheism would be taught in that regard. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 5:47pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234:NO my friend! Indians believe Krishna is GOD, Orientals believe Buddha is GOD, Roman's believe Jupiter is GOD and so on. You can't distinguish between any of these deities unless you mention their names! The title God simply connotes reverence, fear, submission or worship. So when Paul wrote that Christians have One God, he is simply emphasizing the need for oneness in thoughts, doctrines and teachings. The title "God" was also used in ancient times for human rulers who have the power to determine the fate of their subjects, So my friend the title 'GOD" means nothing before them unless such so called GOD does something worthwhile just as you are demanding from those who claims to believe in God. Exodus 5:2-4 The irony of this is it's the same you that's demanding for evidence to prove the existence of God that's now defending the idea of one single God, it's that not awful? Well let me help you out. Muslims are not worshippers of the true God, because they don't even know the name or the laws of Jehovah (the God of Israel). Moreover the Arab world are the first four nations to rule the world that's why they're trying to get back that dominance as they're convinced that Rome ruled longer because of the influence of the Catholic Church, they want to employ the religious system of politics. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 5:56pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: apply what you said. That means it wrong at Act 26:8 too , right ? " Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god " KJ . |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:10pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:14pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: Acts 8:26. And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by CAPTIVATOR: 6:17pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: Barrister was right that you are not fit to do any analysis here, when Tatime ask you to read 1 Corinthians 8:5,6 did you ? U dont or your bias mind is so at work that you didnt see where it reveal the identity of that one God. English Standard Version yet for us there is one God, the Father , from whom are all things Who is the one God ? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:25pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: This one wants us to think his NWT bible is the true translation. Bible written by people who predicted that the world was going to end in 1975. People with false prophecies. People that believe that Jesus Christ came invisibly in 1914 and chose their publishing company as the one true religion. People who because their leaders wanted to be of the anointed remnant on earth introduced overlapping generation in 1995 so that they (the leaders) will be eligible to go to heaven when they die. People that believe that world will soon end and their jehovah will slaughter all non jws because they didn't pay allegiance to a publishing company. People whose doctrines are assumptions and speculation based and seen only in watchtower magazines. You really think we are daft and stupid to believe your assumed translation of saying the word is a god? Think again. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:27pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: It also said one Lord Jesus Christ. Who is the one Lord? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by OneJ: 6:32pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Gruni1234: Gruni1234: Gruni1234 is not being honest. Many scholars agree that in John 1:1 "the word is a god" is accurate because it is the same Greek grammatical construct with Acts 28:6, 12:22,. Other scholars hold a different opinion. That's actually what "John 1:1 Wikipedia" said , but U came to NL to twist the facts. Intellectual dishonesty. Let's see if the evidence supported your claims. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/ english/divine Divine, definition 1. "Connected with a god, or like a god". https://biblehub.com/greek/2304.htm theios - divine divinity, deity ( Latinnumendivinum) not only used by the Greeks to denote the divine nature, power, providence, in the general, with out reference to any individual deity" In other words that verse actually means that Jesus Christ has godlike qualities, attributes of a god. John 1:1, " the word is a god, (NWT) is accurate. 1 Like |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:35pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
CAPTIVATOR: You know you guys are very crafty. You bring out a phrase from Two verses and forget the other phrases in that same verse because you know by quoting these phrases people will spot your fallacies and lies 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. If the statement there is but one God the father means only father is God then the statement one lord Jesus Christ means only Jesus Christ is Lord. The father isn't Lord. You just think we are daft right? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:36pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
OneJ: Is Jesus a false or the only true God? |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by OneJ: 6:46pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
Hairyrapunzel: Your sickness done upload. IBERIBEISM enters "play" mode. Stupidity steeped in delusion, bigotry & anti JW virus=. Mumu for life.
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Hairyrapunzel: 6:52pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
OneJ: I know it's not easy to handle. When you see your religion is a scam. Sorry and take heart. You did not add serial liar ? Lol 2 Likes |
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: 17 Facts People Should Know About Them by Nobody: 9:16pm On Dec 04, 2018 |
OneJ:He is really becoming an slowpoke just because he wants to criticize JWs, no break no jam. The virus is really disturbing his brains, even when everyone is saying something sensible or trying to solve a riddle he is only charging to criticize JWs,out of context. Jesus' words are always found to be true and accurate regarding the outcome of those who despises the truth out of hatred. Luke 11:24-26 Hairyrapunzel can't even think straight anymore, all he's doing is jumping from pillar to post ONLY to look for ways to criticize JWs. |
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