$osisi:

It's interesting that KunleOshob mentions TV01 another individual with a form of Christianity.
Believers should be careful about any Christian who tells you he has read the Bible thoroughly and now knows the mind of God  concerning every issue and everyone else is in error.
Or one who spends time critizing virtually everything in "his faith" and has a ready answer for all questions.
That is  the beginning of heresies and cults
Could these be the people the Bible tells us have crept into the fold ?
I am not impressed
I am not deceived.
May I never come to a point in my life where I feel like I have arrived in faith and now  know all there is to know about God and his ways.
That is the point Kunle and his best friend seem to have come to.
That, my friend,is a dangerous position to be in.
I do not envy them at all.
They may be on a quest to seek out a perfect gathering of non tithing believers meeting under a mango tree under an umbrella of love
But the moment they join it becomes imperfect because they are imperfect themselves
The Bible says that those who are led by the Spirit,are the sons of God.
Every believer should pray to be led
The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Let him who has an ear,hear.

wow! nice post, i am already in love with u and it has nothing to do with that delicious good looking egusi soup on ur profile 

In fair,

NO CHURCH IS A PERFECT CHURCH. Paul says

" For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" I Corinthians 13:9-10.

In Revelation Chapter 2 and 3, Jesus sent a message to several churches. This again, affirms the minor disparaties that characterize the modern day church.

WHILE THE MODERN CHURCH IS CLEARLY IN DIRE NEED OF THAT "GOOD OLD REVIVAL", WE CANNOT BE FRUSTRATED ENOUGH TO EXIT THE CHURCH.

NO MAN may be a Christian without Communion!

Hmmm, suit urself and may God help u with ur plans, I just hope u prepared 2 start ur own home fellowship/church. There r many faulty churches 2day because of pple like d poster who think d present day churches r not doing what Jesus and d apostles teach and as a result start quoting scriptures like '', God does not dwell in temples made by man, '' '', where 2 or 3 pple r gathered in my name, '' they then form their own home church and from there graduate to a church incorporated when d need arise and d same old story will repeat itself because there can never be a perfect church due to lapses here and there.

$osisi:

It's interesting that KunleOshob mentions TV01 another individual with a form of Christianity.
Believers should be careful about any Christian who tells you he has read the Bible thoroughly and now knows the mind of God concerning every issue and everyone else is in error.
Or one who spends time critizing virtually everything in "his faith" and has a ready answer for all questions.
That is the beginning of heresies and cults

May God bless you with His good Hands and never take them off your life for ever! You have just captured the essence of what many people have been noting all along in sounding the note of caution. The history of many cults within Christendom began with those same features -

● everyone else (except themselves) is in error

● nobody else is doing the will of God except they and their friends

● they understand everything about God's ways and can't be corrected

● Christianity has to be narrowed to their own idea or nothing else works

● the whole 'Church' has gone wrong and they alone are standing upright

Dem plenty - but when the results come up after a while, all arguments come to an end as the display speaks for itself.

@ KunleOshob
i totally agree with you.i have even reduced the number of times i go to church now.all i try to do is have my personal believe in the TRINITY .i have a lot to discuss on this issue .My father stopped attending church service from the age of 29,my grand father stopped attending church at an early age.But the distinct thing about them is that ,they lived a righteous life ,they were convinced about CHRIST and as far as i know ,they made heaven.Doctrines are been , let me use the word synthesize in this part of the world ,every church wants to be a pacesetter,so they hardly listen to the voice of the Holy spirit these days.
90 percent of the churches have motivational speakers as pastors ,so its more of attending conferences or seminars in sheraton hotel where two or three are gathered am there in there midst but how can you confirm that in the church today
I leave the rest from here.but i hope to get a better understanding if am wrong

travelxpat:

i totally agree with you.i have even reduced the number of times i go to church now.all i try to do is have my personal believe in the TRINITY .i have a lot to discuss on this issue .My father stopped attending church service from the age of 29,my grand father stopped attending church at an early age.But the distinct thing about them is that ,they lived a righteous life ,they were convinced about CHRIST and as far as i know ,they made heaven.Doctrines are been , let me use the word synthesize in this part of the world ,every church wants to be a pacesetter,so they hardly listen to the voice of the Holy spirit these days.

It's alright to agree and disagree; but how does the case of your father, grandfather and you of ceasing to attend church set an example for other Christians?







Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;
but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Hebrews 10:25

Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou.
These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
Isaiah 65:5

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time,
who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jude 18-19

mactao:

I disagree when you say I have no clue what true Christianity is all about. But it's very annoying that you misinterpreted my post. If you read it at all, then you know that when I say "attending church", I mean "attending the assembling of Christians", not going to a building. I do not think Christ resides in a building.

_{And to think someone followed you blindly in your misinterpretation. Gosh, what do we use our eyes for?}

thank you.  thank you so very much.  you wonder what some people brains are for. hope akara dont continue its frying routines on the inside.

$osisi:

It's interesting that KunleOshob mentions TV01 another individual with a form of Christianity.
Believers should be careful about any Christian who tells you he has read the Bible thoroughly and now knows the mind of God  concerning every issue and everyone else is in error.
Or one who spends time critizing virtually everything in "his faith" and has a ready answer for all questions.
That is  the beginning of heresies and cults
Could these be the people the Bible tells us have crept into the fold ?
I am not impressed
I am not deceived.
May I never come to a point in my life where I feel like I have arrived in faith and now  know all there is to know about God and his ways.
That is the point Kunle and his best friend seem to have come to.
That, my friend,is a dangerous position to be in.
I do not envy them at all.
They may be on a quest to seek out a perfect gathering of non tithing believers meeting under a mango tree under an umbrella of love
But the moment they join it becomes imperfect because they are imperfect themselves
The Bible says that those who are led by the Spirit,are the sons of God.
Every believer should pray to be led
[size=18pt]The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.[/size]  especially loveless/lifeless letters
Let him who has an ear,hear.

you know we will gladly pay second dowry  for you. you are a blessing to my bros and the body of Christ. if most women were like you and some few good heads here men will walk on waters again.  you are always a breathe of fresh air on matters like this and i thank God for your life.

like i said in an earlier post faith is fragile. i cannot point to another post he has ever seen anything good in the church apart from TB Joshua showing how to give money away.  you wonder where TB Joshua printed the money. Pilgrim1 must have stayed with  this guy more than she stays with her family to make him see the error of his ways.  he was out to recruit his likes to his 1 man slow poison fellowship.

over and over i have told him there should be more that unites us than the issue of tithing and not tithing but he loves his 1 min ovation from the likes of huxley, tudor and co.  how a so called christian finds time for god haters i dont understand. well there will always be CINO (christians in name olnly) amongst us.

the church of God will always match on becos He that own words have spoken it. the gates and weapons of lies and discouragement will never be able to function properly against it.

davidylan:

i attend a good bible-believing church and i'm not seeking to leave it.

bros david you know i love you but my brother there is time for everything. there are loads of other programmes you can watch than what tct ius doing with richard roberts and murdoch.  you are too inteligent to be supporting the stupidity of kunle here.  you have your remote control to influence your TV not the other way round.

i can vouch for nwando, pilgrim1 and others that there will be no one of us in support of anything ungodly and even immoral allegedly done in the name or house of Christ.

there is a spirit behind of every action.  if you are sincere you will admit the activities of kunle in the last one year cannot be of God. he is on every thread any ungodly person opens to criticise the body of Christ that is of he in not opeining one himself.  i have had a word with you and gamine on this matter somewhere and it seems you guys ceased but kunle think it is his crusade to spoil the good work churches are doing in nigeria cos he is the 1 standing right. that is not true.  

some of you dont remember the darkness and idolatrous nation nigeria was in the 60's and 70's.  some of you didnt see the idol worshipping and celebrating in nigeria that God is using christianity to remove from that nations land.  i grew up  seeing killed goats, dogs, chickens, snails mixed with yams and red oils for demonic sacrifices in various junctions which thankfully i dont see now.  it is easy to see the errors and abuse in any system.

we must not throw the baby with the water out sir.  Christianity is still generally a major force for good in that land. i remember where God brought us from and i dont want to go there.

[Deep sigh]

Its taken quite a while to get over the shock of reading you guys’ comments on this thread. It is very clear you do not know how serious this issue is.

For now I briefly address something a trend I’ve noticed on this thread (no pun intended). The issue of everyone posting to express their opinion. Now I understand that this is site s a public forum and of course, anybody and everybody can express their opinions and even start threads etc. Its okay to just barge in post your opinions when the topic being discussed is um… maybe something like “Are Men More Intelligent Than Women?” or “Why Do Poor People Have So Many Kids?” or “How Open Can You Get With Your Feelings?”… You know… topics like that. But it’s not okay (though its allowed, as this site is a public forum) when the topic being discussed is something very sensitive, and if I may add, something the Bible clearly speaks about… I mean it’s improper for you to just come in and spew out your opinions!

The issue the poster has raised very serious one. And I MEAN VERY SERIOUS. And the bible has much to say on this issue. Now, I don’t know Kunle, but I can tell you that his decision to stop attending church because their teaching and practices are clearly unbiblical, is VERY CORRECT!!! The bible is full of instructions to Christians to turn away from anyone or any group that teaches anything different from what Jesus and what his apostles taught. I don’t know how most of you posting here have missed it!

Someone even said here, that this is how sects/cults starts – someone thinks everyone but him is in the wrong etc. and then goes of by himself, gathers followers etc. What nonsense! That’s not what he bible says! In fact, to tell you how serious this issue is, there curse on anyone who teaches anything different from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the apostles (and by extension, the scriptures of today).

Here it is:
6 ¶ I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel--
7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.
– Galatians 1:6-9

And again:
17 ¶ I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.
18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded.
Romans 16:17-18

Jesus himself warned of false prophets, and even commended a group of believers for detecting some guys who claimed to be apostles, but are not:
"'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear evil men but have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and found them to be false;
– Rev 2:2

Would’ve presented more scriptures believe these three are enough to pass the point across.

My point again?
When its an issue the bible clearly speaks about. You’re opinions are not welcome. You either take it or leave it! The bible says to stay away from false ministers and organisations. If you’re a Christian you should comply. If you’re not, don’t comply give your opinions. Its so simple.

In the book of Revelation, the bible tells of a LovePeddler, an adulterous church organisation riding a beast, the message to God’s people within was very simple, as all the others throughout the scriptures. COME OUT OF HER!!! End of story. If you remain there (in churches where the word is not rightly divided), YOU WILL COMPROMISE! Its only a matter of time.

And I want to use this opportunity to reach out again to anyone out there who by God’s grace, is tired of the delusion out there in the name of God and his Christ. Anyone who’s looking for a place to fellowship with believers, who by God’s grace (and not because we’re more intelligent than anybody else) are earnestly contending for the faith handed down by the Lord Jesus and his apostles, which is well preserved for us today in the scriptures, I invite you to join us in our “church”. Interestingly, we’ll be starting (tomorrow the 14th of June 2009) a very juicy series on the validity of the bible, we’ll be taking a look at the council of Nicaea and related issues.

Please contact me. My name is Peter, and my email address is petres_007@yahoo.com

God bless!

pilgrim.1:

It's alright to agree and disagree; but how does the case of your father, grandfather and you of ceasing to attend church set an example for other Christians?







    Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;
    but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
    Hebrews 10:25

    Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou.
    These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
    Isaiah 65:5

    How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time,
    who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
    These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
    Jude 18-19

pilgrim.1:

May God bless you with His good Hands and never take them off your life for ever!  You have just captured the essence of what many people have been noting all along in sounding the note of caution. The history of many cults within Christendom began with those same features -

           ●  everyone else (except themselves) is in error

           ●  nobody else is doing the will of God except they and their friends

           ●  they understand everything about God's ways and can't be corrected

           ●  Christianity has to be narrowed to their own idea or nothing else works

           ●  the whole 'Church' has gone wrong and they alone are standing upright

Dem plenty - but when the results come up after a while, all arguments come to an end as the display speaks for itself.

always glad to call you my dear sister. you are a blessing to the body of Christ.  

travelxpat:

@ KunleOshob
i totally agree with you.i have even reduced the number of times i go to church now.all i try to do is have my personal believe in the TRINITY .i have a lot to discuss on this issue .My father stopped attending church service from the age of 29,my grand father stopped attending church at an early age.But the distinct thing about them is that ,they lived a righteous life ,they were convinced about CHRIST and as far as i know ,they made heaven.Doctrines are been , let me use the word synthesize in this part of the world ,every church wants to be a pacesetter,so they hardly listen to the voice of the Holy spirit these days.
90 percent of the churches have motivational speakers as pastors ,so its more of attending conferences or seminars in sheraton hotel where two or three are gathered am there in there midst but how can you confirm that in the church today
I leave the rest from here.but i hope to get a better understanding if am wrong

glad to say you are so very very wrong. why must the devil have best speakers? why do you equate mediocre speaking and preaching with the christian church.  you need to go get the early christian books and where you can get the tapes and listen to them.  i have some old  AW Tozer tapes not clear by todays standard but you call these today motivational speakers.  would you call martin luther king jnr a motivational speaker?  you forget there is actually a rev. before that name.  read this

Luke 16:20-28 (King James Version)

20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24[b]And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame[/b].

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26[b]And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.[/b]

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, [size=14pt]that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment[/size].

 it is cute to be ignorant in this part of eternity especially when you have the likes of kunle and his buddys leading you.  the rich fool would have tot he got away with it. but there is God in heaven that doesnt break His word.  
i think one major disadvantage every nigerian has in life is words means nothing to us. God is not like that my brother.
He mean what He says and say what He means.  one day all  we have done on this part of eternity will be weighed and brought to jugdement.  what we see as not neccesary today may become greatly neccesary tomorrow.  it is a duty we all owe ourselves to live right by the book ( BIBLE ).  paul said we are all in  aearthen vessels but vessels filled with th epower of God to live and do right.  fellowship with the brethren is always right. go read a book how to live with saints below and see what Gods purpose for fellowship is.   fellowship is not about taking your money as most of you think.

remember that song

o what a weeping and wailing when the lost were told of their fate.  

the good life of service to God God and man is a life worth living.  forget about people upsetting you and think of what God wants from you and just get on with the business of being a good Christian first i bet you will begin to enjoy yourself more.

petres_007:



And I want to use this opportunity to reach out again to anyone out there who by God’s grace, is tired of delusion out there in the name of God and his Christ, anyone who’s looking for a place to fellowship with believers, who by God’s grace (and not because we’re more intelligent than anybody else) are earnestly contending for the faith handed down by the Lord Jesus and his apostles, which is well preserved for us today in the scriptures, I invite you to join us in our “church”. Interestingly, we’ll be starting (tomorrow the 14th of June 2009) a very juicy series on the validity of the bible, we’ll be taking a look at the council of Nicaea and related issues.

Please contact me. My name is Peter, and my email address is petres_007@yahoo.com

God bless!

Aha! I guessed right. That's the Church I fellowship with when I'm available.
I got a text earlier today as regards the series to be started tomorrow.

Hi Peter. 

Sadly, I won't be available tomorrow; - work related issues

petres_007:

[Deep sigh]

Its taken quite a while to get over the shock of reading you guys’ comments on this thread. It is very clear you do not know how serious this issue is.

For now I briefly address something a trend I’ve noticed on this thread (no pun intended). The issue of everyone posting to express their opinion. Now I understand that this is site s a public forum and of course, anybody and everybody can express their opinions and even start threads etc. Its okay to just barge in post your opinions when the topic being discussed is um… maybe something like “Are Men More Intelligent Than Women?” or “Why Do Poor People Have So Many Kids?” or “How Open Can You Get With Your Feelings?”… You know… topics like that. But it’s not okay (though its allowed, as this site is a public forum) when the topic being discussed is something very sensitive, and if I may add, something the Bible clearly speaks about… I mean it’s improper for you to just come in and spew out your opinions!

The issue the poster has raised very serious one. And I MEAN VERY SERIOUS. And the bible has much to say on this issue. Now, I don’t know Kunle, but I can tell you that his decision to stop attending church because their teaching and practices are clearly unbiblical, is VERY CORRECT!!! The bible is full of instructions to Christians to turn away from anyone or any group that teaches anything different from what Jesus and what his apostles taught. I don’t know how most of you posting here have missed it!

Someone even said here, that this is how sects/cults starts – someone thinks everyone but him is in the wrong etc. and then goes of by himself, gathers followers etc. What nonsense! That’s not what he bible says! In fact, to tell you how serious this issue is, there curse on anyone who teaches anything different from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the apostles (and by extension, the scriptures of today).

Here it is:
6 ¶ I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel--
7 not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.
– Galatians 1:6-9

And again:
17 ¶ I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.
18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded.
Romans 16:17-18

Jesus himself warned of false prophets, and even commended a group of believers for detecting some guys who claimed to be apostles, but are not:
"'I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear evil men but have tested those who call themselves apostles but are not, and found them to be false;
– Rev 2:2

Would’ve presented more scriptures believe these three are enough to pass the point across.

My point again?
When its an issue the bible clearly speaks about. You’re opinions are not welcome. You either take it or leave it! The bible says to stay away from false ministers and organisations. If you’re a Christian you should comply. If you’re not, don’t comply give your opinions. Its so simple.

In the book of Revelation, the bible tells of a LovePeddler, an asulterous church organisation riding a beast, the message to God’s people within was very simple, as all the others throughout the scriptures. COME OUT OF HER!!! End of story. If you remain there (in churches where the word is being preached), YOU WILL COMPROMISE! Its only a matter of time.

And I want to use this opportunity to reach out again to anyone out there who by God’s grace, is tired of delusion out there in the name of God and his Christ, anyone who’s looking for a place to fellowship with believers, who by God’s grace (and not because we’re more intelligent than anybody else) are earnestly contending for the faith handed down by the Lord Jesus and his apostles, which is well preserved for us today in the scriptures, I invite you to join us in our “church”. Interestingly, we’ll be starting (tomorrow the 14th of June 2009) a very juicy series on the validity of the bible, we’ll be taking a look at the council of Nicaea and related issues.

Please contact me. My name is Peter, and my email address is petres_007@yahoo.com

God bless!

kunle there is an invitation for you.  

mr peter, would you be accepting tithes and offerings too?
which church / orgainisation have you passed thru or come out?

you appear not to have noticed that almost everyone is saying that kunle have histoty and record of bad mouthing the church of Christ in nigeria.  how could you have missed that?

@petres_007,

The problem with fawning adulators like you is the predictable hollowness in your outlook. First, it is improper for others to spew out their opinions - have you not done the same thing?!? You can say that the opinions of others are not welcome, what makes yours any more welcome than any others? You're merely drooling than making any point.

petres_007:

Someone even said here, that this is how sects/cults starts – someone thinks everyone but him is in the wrong etc. and then goes of by himself, gathers followers etc. What nonsense! That’s not what he bible says! In fact, to tell you how serious this issue is, there curse on anyone who teaches anything different from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the apostles (and by extension, the scriptures of today).

How many readers' posts in this thread have been teaching anything different from the Gospel of Jesus Christ so that only the ideas of you and your folks can pass the curse-test?

petres_007:

And again:
17 ¶ I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.
18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded.
Romans 16:17-18

If you knew the meaning of Galatians 1:6-9 and Romans 16:17-18, you'd not be busy quoting those verses against anyone who does not cut into your mold. As far as no one here has been preaching any other Gospel than what was preached by the apostles, what is your point? Did you take time to check up the meaning of "dissensions" to see it is working against your own coterie?

petres_007:

When its an issue the bible clearly speaks about. You’re opinions are not welcome.

Good - your opinion was unnecessary in the first place.

petres_007:

You either take it or leave it! The bible says to stay away from false ministers and organisations. If you’re a Christian you should comply. If you’re not, don’t comply give your opinions. Its so simple.

False brethren use nice speeches to deceive themselves and claim that others are "false" - from such we should stay away. It's that simple. When someone spends all his life condemning every church with all kinds of labels, there's a different spirit at work - that also should be avoided. You can have your own opinions and excuses for not fellowshipping in church, yet such tendencies have a different voice engineering them.

petres_007:

In the book of Revelation, the bible tells of a LovePeddler, an asulterous church organisation riding a beast, the message to God’s people within was very simple, as all the others throughout the scriptures. COME OUT OF HER!!! End of story. If you remain there (in churches where the word is being preached), YOU WILL COMPROMISE! Its only a matter of time.

Lol, you're a predictable loser! The LovePeddler in Revelation does not preach the Word, mr 'opinion'. When people come out of churches where the Word is being preached, where do they go? Your separatist alarm is not Biblical, sorry.

petres_007:

And I want to use this opportunity to reach out again to anyone out there who by God’s grace, is tired of delusion out there in the name of God and his Christ, anyone who’s looking for a place to fellowship with believers, who by God’s grace (and not because we’re more intelligent than anybody else) are earnestly contending for the faith handed down by the Lord Jesus and his apostles, which is well preserved for us today in the scriptures, I invite you to join us in our “church”. Interestingly, we’ll be starting (tomorrow the 14th of June 2009) a very juicy series on the validity of the bible, we’ll be taking a look at the council of Nicaea and related issues.

This is how you recruit losers to your coterie - you condemn other churches and make your own "church" the better alternative - yes, predictably and deliciously using 'the grace of God' as cover. May God have mercy upon us all and lead you out of this slow poison and self-defeating brigade. I am very familiar and well informed of the sort of movement you're preaching.

JJYOU:


you appear not to have noticed that almost everyone is saying that kunle have histoty and record of bad mouthing the church of Christ in nigeria.  how could you have missed that?

@JJYOU;

You know that there is a difference between bashing or 'bad-mouthing' the church and then speaking against the errors committed by some members of the church.

If you really go through Kunle's posts and articles objectively, you'll notice that he is doing the latter and not the former.

His methods or approach might be crude, but his intent is well placed/right.

Try to view his posts objectively rather than have a preconcieved notion about him; cos I've noticed that most of ur responses to him or his posts are based on a conception you have of him and not objective.

We can't all say we're not guilty in some way or the other in some issues that we accuse or label others of; even you.
But the right thing always has to be done.

@ttalks,

ttalks:

You know that there is a difference between bashing or 'bad-mouthing' the church and then speaking against the errors committed by some members of the church.

We know the difference.

ttalks:

If you really go through Kunle's posts and articles objectively, you'll notice that he is doing the latter and not the former.

Really? Sample:

'To cut the long story short i have come to the realization with a renewed conviction
that there is no church i am aware of today that is doing the will of our lord Jesus christ
and the churches we have today are a marked departure from the churches founded
by the apostles.' [here]

Someone may not be aware of any church doing the Lord's will - hence, "no church" does the will of the Lord Jesus Christ. But that is a different thing to go further claiming that "the churches we have today" have departed from churches founded by the apostles. Even more is the idea that the church as it is today has no scriptural basis - and many who agree with him and advertising their own "church" may not see that one.

We agree the right thing has to be done; but if your own "church" was the focus of the 'right thing' we seek to correct, I'm sure you'd still be pleading for 'objectively' reading issues. What is wrong is wrong - end of story.

Pilgrim, Pilgrim, u have started being naughty once again

pilgrim.1:


Really? Sample:

'To cut the long story short i have come to the realization with a renewed conviction
that there is no church i am aware of today that is doing the will of our lord Jesus christ
and the churches we have today are a marked departure from the churches founded
by the apostles.' [here]

He is simply refering to the churches he is aware of and not all churches.

I thought u used to say something about generalising. Are u now allowing the generalization to determine ur response?

We agree the right thing has to be done; [b]but if your own "church" was the focus of the 'right thing' we seek to correct, I'm sure you'd still be pleading for 'objectively' reading issue[/b]s. What is wrong is wrong - end of story.

Let's not conclude on things that haven't happened yet. Let's deal with what is currently on at the moment.

ttalks:

Pilgrim, Pilgrim, u have started being naughty once again

I beg sir! I beg sir! I beg sir!
I promise to be good to you from henceforth. I beg you sir!

ttalks:

He is simply refering to the churches he is aware of and not all churches.

I will not even argue sir. I beg sir O! _{I don't ever want to fall out with you sir!}

ttalks:

I thought u used to say something about generalising. Are u now allowing the generalization to determine ur response?

No sir! I beg you well-well sir! I will not argue sir!

ttalks:

Let's not conclude on things that haven't happened yet. Let's deal with what is currently on at the moment.

Okay sir! I comply with your stance sir! _{even tho I no fit agree, I still dey beg!} It's good to love the brethren sir! I will love all who follow Christ with love in their hearts - whether they gather or meet in Cathedrals or at barbeach in VI. Yes sir! God bless you sir!

Ok now.
I am going to tell mummy for you

ttalks:

@JJYOU;

You know that there is a difference between bashing or 'bad-mouthing' the church and then speaking against the errors committed by some members of the church.

If you really go through Kunle's posts and articles objectively, you'll notice that he is doing the latter and not the former.

His methods or approach might be crude, but his intent is well placed/right.

Try to view his posts objectively rather than have a preconcieved notion about him; cos I've noticed that most of ur responses to him or his posts are based on a conception you have of him and not objective.

We can't all say we're not guilty in some way or the other in some issues that we accuse or label others of; even you.
But the right thing always has to be done.

thanks for rising to the defence of the great saint. i know he is a 1994 baptist graduate plus being a well brought up boy but dont you think he missed the mark when only him and bros TB joshua are the only one doing good in nigeria? it is okay coming here to defend him i suggest you have a midnight call to him afterall he aint going to church soon.

JJYOU:

thanks for rising to the defence of the great saint. i know he is a 1994 baptist graduate plus being a well brought up boy but dont you think he missed the mark when only him and bros TB joshua are the only one doing good in nigeria? it is okay coming here to defend him i suggest you have a midnight call to him afterall he aint going to church soon.

Being sarcastic towards him does not help matters.
I'm not defending Kunle; rather I'm simply trying to point out some things which u might be misconstruing about him or his posts.
Plus u know he never claimed to be the only one doing things right; that would be wrong interpretation of what he has been putting across.

Why don't we just say what we want to say about issues without being sarcastic/cunningly slanderous/mischieviously provocating towards others?!

Hi All,

I tust this finds everyone well.

I haven't posted for a while and the frequency of my posting is greatly reduced. Having said that, I still visit as often as I ever did, following any thread that catches my attention, but for the most part being content to reflect on the views of others.

I have followed this thread from the beginning and was again planning  - and happy -  to remain on the sidelines and hear other express their views.

I'm neither seeking a high profile or attention, so I would really rather I was personally left out of this. Having said that I took no issue with Kunle making mention of me during the discourse, after all I have no reason to believe his intent was in any way malicious. Neither will I object to anyone referencing anything I've published or even personally discussed, as long as it is accurately quoted and contextualised.


So I'm posting for two reasons;

The first is to respond to $osisi' post - #158 - earlier today.

Hi $osisi,  I hope you are well. We have had very little interaction on NL and not directly for some time. We both have a body of postings and I'm sure have had occassion to read each others entries. I must say I'm rather saddened by your post earlier today and I'll explain why.

$osisi:

It's interesting that KunleOshob mentions TV01 another individual with a form of Christianity.

As an entre intended to both wound and calumnise, could you have done much better? Your pointedly referencing and ascribing a "form" of Christianity to both Kunle and myself is at best religiously censorious.  Which would suggest you are an arbiter of what are "true" and "form" strains of Christianity. At the very least if you are allowed to express you opinion  - wrightly or wrongly - about individuals, does not Kunle have the same right to express his opinion about strains of denominationalism or worship traditions?

$osisi:

Believers should be careful about any Christian who tells you he has read the Bible thoroughly and now knows the mind of God  concerning every issue and everyone else is in error.

I can only shake my head in wonder here, as I have never once suggested anything remotely like that. Wonder as you cannot fail to understand exactly what you are doing here, by falsely ascribing to me a stance I have never taken.

And for the record I will state here; simply I'm still on my journey. Neither do I believe that doctrinal excellence or scriptural supremacy is key. I am always ready to be disabused of any wrong notions I may hold, but please address the notions and refrain from ad hominen invective.

$osisi:

Or one who spends time critizing virtually everything in "his faith" and has a ready answer for all questions.

Again, you maliciously ascribe something to me that cannot be verified. I have my understanding and position on certain religious or faith practices and doctrine, but would you disallow me that? Or am I obliged to confer and agree with you on every point?

$osisi:

That is  the beginning of heresies and cults

Not content to falsely ascribe things to me and take issue because I have expressed an opinon, you progress to labelling me heretical and a probable cultist. Are you trying to flatter me ?

$osisi:

Could these be the people the Bible tells us have crept into the fold ?
I am not impressed
I am not deceived.

Both wierd and funny?? - In a sense, isn't Kunle on the verge of leaving your "fold"? Why not encourage him/us? Shouldn't you be glad?

And in all the religious landscape, are you sure its TV and Kunosh the Bible is warning you against? Two individuals without profiles, no following, no platforms, no power, influence and dare I say wealth. Who are not soliciting for followers or seeking to establish - neither belong too - a denomination or institutional church?? Or asking that you subscribe to their beliefs/doctrines or follow their paths or asking for your resources? Please don't take my word for it $osisi, but I'd say no! !

Eeeerrr, my desire to impress you exactly matches my desire to decieve you. No prizes.

$osisi:

May I never come to a point in my life where I feel like I have arrived in faith and now  know all there is to know about God and his ways.

That is the point Kunle and his best friend seem to have come to.
That, my friend,is a dangerous position to be in.
I do not envy them at all.

So then, is perdition your prognosis?

$osisi:

They may be on a quest to seek out a perfect gathering of non tithing believers meeting under a mango tree under an umbrella of love
But the moment they join it becomes imperfect because they are imperfect themselves

Lots has been said on the word "perfection" in relation to believers and the church in this thread and I was briefly tempted to write on that very point. I yet may.

All Kunosh has said - and please correct me if I am wrong - is that the various forms of institutionalised religious christianity are in his view so far removed from the scriptural blueprint that he has doubt if they are still in essence the true church refered too. Ergo, he may no longer worship in that setting.

He did not say he no longer believed, he did not say he would no longer fellowship, he did not say he was seeking perfect people or a perfect church. If your view is that he is in error or danger, why not show him scripturally why that is the case? Why not address the issue, possibly delivering him and others in the same position.

$osisi:

The Bible says that those who are led by the Spirit,are the sons of God.
Every believer should pray to be led
The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.
Let him who has an ear,hear.

I missed the bit where you actually referred to the topic or addressed the issue? Your intent becomes even more obvious. The effect? On me personally zilch. Some may be wrongly coloured in their opinion of me - but again for my own sake, no qualms.


$osisi I bear you no malice or ill-will, indeed my desire for you remains the same as for everyone - that we all seek and find the truth of God in Christ Jesus.


The second is to say if anyone would like to quote me, please take time to do so faithfully. Or just ask and I'll happily answer as best I can.


Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

God bless
TV

TV01:

Hi All,

I tust this finds everyone well.

I haven't posted for a while and the frequency of my posting is greatly reduced. Having said that, I still visit as often as I ever did, following any thread that catches my attention, but for the most part being content to reflect on the views of others.

I have followed this thread from the beginning and was again planning  - and happy -  to remain on the sidelines and hear other express their views.

I'm neither seek a high profile or attention, so I would really rather I was personally left out of this. Having said that I took no issue with Kunle making mention of me during the discourse, after all I have no reason to believe his intent was in any way malicious. Neither will I object to anyone referencing anything I've published or even personally discussed, as long as it is accurately quoted and contextualised.


So I'm posting for two reasons;

The first is to respond to $osisi' post - #158 - earlier today.

Hi $osisi,  I hope you are well. We have had very little interaction on NL and not directly for some time. We both have a body of postings and I'm sure have had occassion to read each others entries. I must say I'm rather saddened by your post earlier today and I'll explain why.



As an entre intended to both wound and calumnise, could you have done much better? Your pointedly referencing and ascribing a "form" of Christianity to both Kunle and myself is at best religiously censorious.  Which would suggest you are an arbiter of what are "true" and "form" strains of Christianity. At the very least if you are allowed to express you opinion  - wrightly or wrongly - about individuals, does not Kunle have the same right to express his opinion about strains of denominationalism or worship traditions?


I can only shake my head in wonder here, as I have never once suggested anything remotely like that. Wonder as you cannot fail to understand exactly what you are doing here, by falsely ascribing to me a stance I have never taken.

And for the record I will state here; simply I'm still on my journey. Neither do I believe that doctrinal excellence or scriptural supremacy is key. I am always ready to be disabused of any wrong notions I may hold, but please address the notions and refrain from ad hominen invective.


Again, you maliciously ascribe something to me that cannot be verified. I have my understanding and position on certain religious or faith practices and doctrine, but would you disallow me that? Or am I obliged to confer and agree with you on every point?


Not content to falsely ascribe things to me and take issue because I have expressed an opinon, you progress to labelling me heretical and a probable cultist. Are you trying to flatter me ?


Both wierd and funny?? - In a sense, isn't Kunle on the verge of leaving your "fold"? Why not encourage him/us? Shouldn't you be glad?

And in all the religious landscape, are you sure its TV and Kunosh the Bible is warning you against? Two individuals without profiles, no following, no platforms, no power, influence and dare I say wealth. Who are not soliciting for followers or seeking to establish - neither belong too - a denomination or institutional church?? Or asking that you subscribe to their beliefs/doctrines or follow their paths or asking for your resources? Please don't take my word for it $osisi, but I'd say no! !

Eeeerrr, my desire to impress you exactly matches my desire to decieve you. No prizes.

So then, is perdition your prognosis?

Lots has been said on the word "perfection" in relation to believers and the church in this thread and I was briefly tempted to write on that very point. I yet may.

All Kunosh has said - and please correct me if I am wrong - is that the various forms of institutionalised religious christianity are in his view so far removed from the scriptural blueprint that he has doubt if they are still in essence the true church refered too. Ergo, he may no longer worship in that setting.

He did not say he no longer believed, he did not say he would no longer fellowship, he did not say he was seeking perfect people or a perfect church. If your view is that he is in error or danger, why not show him scripturally why that is the case? Why not address the issue, possibly delivering him and others in the same position.


I missed the bit where you actually referred to the topic or addressed the issue? Your intent becomes even more obvious. The effect? On me personally zilch. Some may be wrongly coloured in their opinion of me - but again for my own sake, no qualms.


$osisi I bear you no malice or ill-will, indeed my desire for you remains the same as for everyone - that we all seek and find the truth of God in Christ Jesus.


The second is to say if anyone would like to quote me, please take time to do so faithfully. Or just ask and I'll happily answer as best I can.


Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

God bless
TV

why do you "truth" telling/ "yea i am right" people find others  truth so hurting?

ttalks:

Being sarcastic towards him does not help matters.
I'm not defending Kunle; rather I'm simply trying to point out some things which u might be misconstruing about him or his posts.
Plus u know he never claimed to be the only one doing things right; that would be wrong interpretation of what he has been putting across. [size=13pt] i didnt know he didnt say that cos i have given him plenty  opportunities to deny same.
[/size]
Why don't we just say what we want to say about issues without being sarcastic/cunningly slanderous/mischieviously provocating towards others?!

no laughing matter i was quoting him word for word. he is a 1994 graduate with proper home training unlike some of us.  so you see why we cant afford the bible let alone read one and understand.

ttalks:

Why don't we just say what we want to say about issues without being sarcastic/cunningly slanderous/mischieviously provocating towards others?!

Abeg no report me sir, but make I comment small on that one.
Indeed we can all say what we want to say and bear out our concerns - without being:

     sarcastic/cunningly
     slanderous/mischieviously provocating
etc., etc., etc.

People can bear their concerns without resorting to any such things against the Church. _{I promised to be good to you, so I'll not go beyond this.}  

TV01:

$osisi link=topic=282213.msg4021319#msg4021319 date=1244858081:

Believers should be careful about any Christian who tells you he has read the Bible thoroughly and now knows the mind of God concerning every issue and everyone else is in error.

I can only shake my head in wonder here, as I have never once suggested anything remotely like that. Wonder as you cannot fail to understand exactly what you are doing here, by falsely ascribing to me a stance I have never taken.

I don't think your reaction in that manner was necessary. You're not "any Christian", unless you make yourself one and then personalize her quote to yourself;. If $osisi had said it in a general way, I say amen to it - because that applies to me as well if I find myself displaying the same tendency that is stated in her quote. That is why one should not miss her gist in going on to say:

May I never come to a point in my life where I feel like I have arrived in faith
and now know all there is to know about God and his ways.

There wasn't really any need to be reactive and take it personally; but if you do, I respect your right to do so.

I don't know why people get so jittery over the current state of the church. Was it not prophesied in the bible? No where was it written that the right approach to such a situation was to abandon the fellowship of the brethren, but to watch and pray, not act out of what I think is self righteousness. I want you to give it another try and find a bible believing church. Congregation revering their leaders in churches in Nigeria I think is mostly due to the culture where people in position are often given respect whether deserving of it or not. I used to go to Assemblies of God in Surulere, Lagos. Maybe you should try that out.

close dat ure dirty mouth if u don't want to go to church allow does dat are ready to go. since you know the weak part why not try and open a church and show dem the truth ure one among the false prophet of the last days.

tbaby4purpose2009:

close dat ure dirty mouth if u don't want to go to church allow does dat are ready to go. since you know the weak part why not try and open a church and show dem the truth ure one among the false prophet of the last days.

Kai! See post.
Only 3 posts into NL and see what is being spewed.

ttalks:

Kai! See post.
Only 3 posts into NL and see what is being spewed.

You don talk am before, and I don quote am again:

_{. . . without being sarcastic/cunningly slanderous/mischieviously provocating . . .}

Thank you sir, for not reporting me!

TV01:

All Kunosh has said - and please correct me if I am wrong - is that the various forms of institutionalised religious christianity are in his view so far removed from the scriptural blueprint that he has doubt if they are still in essence the true church refered too. Ergo, he may no longer worship in that setting.

He did not say he no longer believed, he did not say he would no longer fellowship, he did not say he was seeking perfect people or a perfect church. If your view is that he is in error or danger, why not show him scripturally why that is the case? Why not address the issue, possibly delivering him and others in the same position.

@TV01, Thanks for that refreshing post. I saw pilgrim.1's and JJYOU's responses to my post and their comments on this thread and felt like fainting!  

Maybe they got me wrong so I'm going to repeat my points here again:

1. I haven't claimed to have read the bible and  now know it all. No. I (like so many others) have studied it enough to realise that most institutionalised churches' doctrines/practices are very different - in fact too far away from the biblical "blueprint", like TV01 said.

2. My comments about spewing one's opinions in sensitive threads like this means just what I said: if you do not have a valid biblical explanation to refute what the poster has said, if you feel he's wrong, please, I repeat, do not just give your "opinion" on the issue. Address what has been said from the scriptures. And if you cannot (or won't) make a scriptural presentation to refute what's been said, then please don't throw in your "opinion". I repeat, the issues Kunle has raised here in this post are very important and sensitive ones.

3. I also really need to say I'm apalled at the way you guys are jumping to the defense of the church, the way it is now. I'm shocked! And though I'm not surprised (cos the bible does predict this), I just can't help feeling shock anytime I see this. Your proper response as I said earlier, should be to refute what's been said from the scriptures!

4.

stillwater:

I don't know why people get so jittery over the current state of the church. Was it not prophesied in the bible? No where was it written that the right approach to such a situation was to abandon the fellowship of the brethren, but to watch and pray, not act out of what I think is self righteousness. I want you to give it another try and find a bible believing church. Congregation revering their leaders in churches in Nigeria I think is mostly due to the culture where people in position are often given respect whether deserving of it or not. I used to go to Assemblies of God in Surulere, Lagos. Maybe you should try that out.

@Stillwater
At least you admit it was prophesied in the bible. But you're wrong in saying that no where is it written that believers are to leave places where the truth is not being taught. The bible is replete with warnings to stay away from people who teach anything different from what the apostles taught. I read your comment which I've quoted above, and couldn't stop shaking my head in wonder. Or maybe you've not noticed that much of the teachings and practices of the church of today is way out of line from what we find in the scriptures. What makes the deception so great is that these men also use the bible (by of course, twisting it and lifting verses out of context etc.) to teach these things, so its sort of hard to pick out the errors. I ask you to please study your bible. Please. Its so important.

And for everyone else (especially those of you defending the institutionalized churches of today), I also ask you to read study your bible and note that most of the prophecies about the last days clearly show that it will be marked not by revival as many suppose, and even pray for, but by mass apostasy, as people will be drawn away from true Gospel of Christ which the apostles faithfully taught, to other "customized" versions of it, or even other religions all together. But when you look at the number of people going to church today you'll have a hard time seeing how those prophecies could come true in our time. But it is happening.

@Pilgrim,
you said something: that no one in this thread has said anything outside of what the apostles taught. The only way you can say that, is if you yourself haven;t done a proper study of the scriptures to find this out what it is exactly the apostles taught, and then compare it with what is being taught and practiced today. If you had, you wouldn't be wasting your precious time lashing out at me and saying the things you've been saying.

Please study your bible. But first set aside your preconceived notions and ideas, and study objectively. You can take issues one at a time. The tithing issue is actually a very simple one. Though you can't understand that without a proper understanding of the Old and New Covenants. I usually use that as a starting point when studying with friends. Please study your bible. Please.

I read comments like those of @tbaby4purpose2009 and felt like crying.

tbaby4purpose2009:
close dat ure dirty mouth if u don't want to go to church allow does dat are ready to go. since you know the weak part why not try and open a church and show dem the truth ure one among the false prophet of the last days.

I don't think it can get worse than that.

It is well.

And I think it was JJYOU who asked if we take tithes and offerings in my church, since I invited people to my church.  

Well, we stopped that a long time ago, when we first realised that it was unbiblical. So the answer, though unnecesary if you'd read my post on page 3 about tithing, is a simple "No, we don't take tithes or any kind of offering either". More on this later.

And JJYOU, about Kunle, you said he has a history of badmouthing churches. That sounds to me like what he's guilty of, is simply studying his bible objectively. And I dare you to do same. I know there's a spiritual angle to it, as one can actually read the bible for ages and never see the light. But I do pray that God will open your eyes and heart to see clearly. Kunle's so-called badmouthing of churches is perfectly in order. Again, if you study your bible, you'll find out for example, that it says to speak out against things like these.

Again, about my invitation, see you really got me laughing. But lets do a small analysis together shall we? As I've said here, we do not take any form of tithe/offering as there are no instructions or examples in the bible to do so. Now, from your post (please correct me if I'm wrong) I got the impression that you feel I'm inviting anyone who wants to come to my church, so we can,  you know get more tithes/offerings.  

I'm sure you know by now that this isn't true.

I'm inviting them because I know what its like to be in their shoes!!!
And my finding a church, a group of believers who uphold God's word as all, in the midst of so much compromise and falsehood, was about the best thing that ever happened to me as a person and as a christian. I shudder to think of what I might have become by now, as at that point, I'd had my fill of the madness and knew I'd soon join them if I didn't leave. Where to go to was the problem. I even narrated how I prayed and within days, I found a church that matched the profile. Please read my first post (and the second as well). I know what its like being in their shoes and thats why I invited them. The invitation is not for everybody and most likely you, and Pilgrim, so please ignore it.

And if I might add here, I've received a handful of emails from people who read this post, asking for how to meet up. I'm more than happy for them! I still can't forget my joy, the first time I found my current church. I went home blessing God - all the way! And till today, knowing there are many out there who don;t know where to go, I still thank him that I do. And then pray for those out there looking for sincere belivers to fellowship with, to find one. So I have o apologies for inviting anyone to my church. None at all!

In fact, like I said in my last post, we'll be starting a series on the roots of Christianity. For centuries now, the christian faith has been under all kinds of attacks. Some question the validity/trustworthiness of the bible. Others question that of the Gospels and the other books of the new testament. Some say that there books that were removed from the bible. Others say some of the books in the bible were edited. Corrupted. I prefer the word "customized"  . Some question the death of Jesus. Others question his Resurrection. Some others, even say he never existed at all, and that Christianity is based on myths/legends.      

So we'll be looking at these issues starting tomorrow (13th June 2009).

WHEN will the BODY of christ get it's act together? One says tithe the other says don't, you hear this here,you hear that somewhere else.
The funny thing is they all deduce their instructions from the SAME book!
WHY CANT god speak the same thing to his messengers? He tells oyedepo one thing, says another to adeboye and kumuyi,maybe speaks japanese to oyakhilome and t.b joshua. . . Haba!

@petres_007,

petres_007:

@TV01, Thanks for that refreshing post. I saw pilgrim.1's and JJYOU's responses to my post and their comments on this thread and felt like fainting!

What in our reply to yours was making you feel like fainting? Was it grand that you tried to dismiss other people's opinions and flash yours across our faces? If you're going to discuss with others, do so - no need to dismiss others to make space for yours.

petres_007:
@Pilgrim,
you said something: that no one in this thread has said anything outside of what the apostles taught.

Did I say that? Really? Okay, I beg you sir! No vex.
The thing I remember having said was this:

'As far as no one here has been preaching any other Gospel than
what was preached by the apostles, what is your point?'

I don't remember saying that no one in this thread has said anything outside of what the apostles taught. if I did, my apologies in advance as you take the time to show where I said so.

petres_007:

The only way you can say that, is if you yourself haven;t done a proper study of the scriptures to find this out what it is exactly the apostles taught, and then compare it with what is being taught and practiced today. If you had, you wouldn't be wasting your precious time lashing out at me and saying the things you've been saying.

I don't know all of what the Bible teaches, and I'm certainly still learning. But your attitude and also claiming things which are unfounded do not demonstrate anything about your super spirituality. Em. . _{make I just hold my tongue because of ttalks. .}

petres_007:

Please study your bible. But first set aside your preconceived notions and ideas, and study objectively. You can take issues one at a time. The tithing issue is actually a very simple one. Though you can't understand that without a proper understanding of the Old and New Covenants. I usually use that as a starting point when studying with friends. Please study your bible. Please.

Thank you. This is not a tithing thread and that would be a cheap subject to waste your arguements on. Take a more engaging subject and let's discuss, if you may. Yes, I'm open to learning and correction where I don't have a good grasp of what the Word teaches; and I'd be delighted to learn from you where you can show some understanding.

petres_007:

I read comments like those of @tbaby4purpose2009 and felt like crying.
I don't think it can get worse than that.

Haha. . what is wrong with this gentleman? If you're not fainting, you're feeling like crying! Wetin happen? Peace bro.

@Tudor

The problem isn't God saying different things to these men who claim to hear him. For example, one of the biggest problems of odern churchianity today is that they go seeking "the voice of God" (against the warning of the scriptures) and actually do hear someone/something that 99.9% of the time proves not to be the God of the bible!  

Its sad.

The bible clearly states in the book of Hebrews (chapter 1:1-) that God did speak in times past to the ancient hebrews by the prophets but in these last days, has spoken to us by his son.

I'd like to stress a point here: it says, he "has spoken". But people of today (and of course, previous generations too) know better. They leave clearly laid out teachings and examples of Jesus and the apostles to either invent their own or claim to hear a voice that told them something else. Though the things they hear usually looks like the real thing, but when you take a closer look, they're very different. And almost all the time, this has been the source of trouble in Christendom. "God" tells this one something, then he tells the other person something else.

Take the apostles for example. Though they're not like the regular christian, in the sense that they were chosen by God (as he usually does) to be the custodians of the Gospel. Paul, who became an apostle later after an encounter with Christ on his way to Damascus receive his own "commission"/"gospel" as it were, by revelation. But note what he said in the book of Galatians (chapter 2). he went to Jerusalem, and narrated his conversion and the gospel which he'd been preaching to the apostles and they had nothing to add or take away from it! Now compare that with the madness going on today.

The teaching of the apostles are what we have today in the scriptures (New testament). Compare the "ministry" of the minister and ministries of today with the scriptures and you find that they're not the same at all. And I don't mean minor differences. I mean things the apostles themselves gave serious warnings about while they were still here. Paul himself did mention somewhere else, possibly in Galatians, too (can't remember the place now) that both he and the other apostles had only one message. Not like what we see today. And they still taut crappy statements like "the spirit is one".  

Jesus Christ and him crucified. All these other "customized" versions of the gospel are not biblical. The confusion is not from the bible

pilgrim.1:

You don talk am before, and I don quote am again:

_{. . . without being sarcastic/cunningly slanderous/mischieviously provocating . . .}

Thank you sir, for not reporting me!

So you do not think that it's pretty too much for a new comer to start up with such heavy language?
Don't u think it's bad that the new comer has imbibed the bad habits popular in NL?
And such a person should not be chided?


I'm definitely going to tell mummy for you; no holding back this time.