Image123:


Actually, you are asking a new question,previous ones have been answered. You cannot follow who you do not know. It's like asking if people would have understood English if the British didn't come to Africa. The early Christians were very outspoken and joyous about their faith/belief. They went everywhere preaching the gospel. It is not outside the box to say that the eunuch would have told others about Jesus, salvation, baptism and co. He was a student of the Word of God, remember.

That actually is my point. It is my perception that Jesus is not copyrighted by Christianity as a Religion. Christianity does not have ownership rights on Jesus. Christ is an entity, the living son of God. Anyone anywhere with a sincere heart who loves his neighbor can have access to him irrespective of religious labels and with or without human intervention.

So yes, there were people in Africa who knew Christ, long before the Colons came to the shores of Africa. And there are still people today who know Christ while they never read the Bible. Likewise they are people well versed in the Bible, who do not know Him. Would you say a blind man is condemned never to know Jesus, because he can't read? Knowing Christ has nothing to do with a Book. Just as knowing a book does not guarantee you know the author of the Book.

Jesus himself did not write any book. His followers did. There is a great difference between the followers of Jesus and Jesus. God and spirituality can't be limited to any book whatsoever, but is to be experienced and lived day in day out.

Thank you for your time taking and answers. Receive my most noble thoughts.

LoJ:


That actually is my point. It is my perception that Jesus is not copyrighted by Christianity as a Religion. Christianity does not have ownership rights on Jesus. Christ is an entity, the living son of God. Anyone anywhere with a sincere heart who loves his neighbor can have access to him irrespective of religious labels and with or without human intervention.

So yes, there were people in Africa who knew Christ, long before the Colons came to the shores of Africa. And there are still people today who know Christ while they never read the Bible. Likewise they are people well versed in the Bible, who do not know Him. Would you say a blind man is condemned never to know Jesus, because he can't read? Knowing Christ has nothing to do with a Book. Just as knowing a book does not guarantee you know the author of the Book.

Jesus himself did not write any book. His followers did. There is a great difference between the followers of Jesus and Jesus. God and spirituality can't be limited to any book whatsoever, but is to be experienced and lived day in day out.

Thank you for your time taking and answers. Receive my most noble thoughts.

Christianity is following Jesus, i think i said that earlier. Anyone following Jesus is a Christian. Anyone not following Jesus is not a Christian, anywhere and anytime.

Image123:


Christianity is following Jesus, i think i said that earlier. Anyone following Jesus is a Christian. Anyone not following Jesus is not a Christian, anywhere and anytime.

Yes and I agree. And following Jesus is not tantamount to following the Bible, nor following a Pastor, nor following a religious mouvement. as long as one is following Jesus, He is a (true) Christian, irrespective of his religious label even if He's a muslim, buddhist, or else.

Greetings.

LoJ:


Yes and I agree. And following Jesus is not tantamount to following the Bible, nor following a Pastor, nor following a religious mouvement. as long as one is following Jesus, He is a (true) Christian, irrespective of his religious label even if He's a muslim, buddhist, or else.

Greetings.

Jesus Christ is the Word personified, you cannot separate the two, except you refer to another Jesus.

Image123:


Jesus Christ is the Word personified, you cannot separate the two, except you refer to another Jesus.

The Bible and Jesus are not one and the same thing. The Bible is a book, Jesus is a Being. Even if the Bible was written by Jesus, it would not have made it equal or tied to Him, nor necessary to have a relationship with him. The fact that i read the posts of Image123 on Nairaland, does not mean that I know Image123 personally. Indeed they are people who know Image123 in real life, without reading your writings on nairaland, and vice versa.

Besides, the Bible was not even written by Jesus, but by Followers of Jesus. There is a huge difference between Jesus and his followers. Again, even some books written by some followers were sometimes arbitrarily rejected by men, while others which were canonized, were not written by direct followers or written by anonymous figures or under pseudos.

It is not my aim to criticize any religious book including the bible. It is my opinion that anyone is entitled to his religious beliefs. I have nothing against those who believe the Bible or the qoran or other books are normative, provided they don't force it on others. However the notion that the Bible or any other religious book is God or is the only way to God or to spirituality, is in my opinion idolatry.

Greetings.

LoJ:


The Bible and Jesus are not one and the same thing. The Bible is a book, Jesus is a Being. Even if the Bible was written by Jesus, it would not have made it equal or tied to Him, nor necessary to have a relationship with him. The fact that i read the posts of Image123 on Nairaland, does not mean that I know Image123 personally. Indeed they are people who know Image123 in real life, without reading your writings on nairaland, and vice versa.

Besides, the Bible was not even written by Jesus, but by Followers of Jesus. There is a huge difference between Jesus and his followers. Again, even some books written by some followers were sometimes arbitrarily rejected by men, while others which were canonized, were not written by direct followers or written by anonymous figures or under pseudos.

It is not my aim to criticize any religious book including the bible. It is my opinion that anyone is entitled to his religious beliefs. I have nothing against those who believe the Bible or the qoran or other books are normative, provided they don't force it on others. However the notion that the Bible or any other religious book is God or is the only way to God or to spirituality, is in my opinion idolatry.

Greetings.

Evidently, we are both referring to two different Jesus. My Jesus is the Word of God, i don't know yours.

Image123:


Evidently, we are both referring to two different Jesus. My Jesus is the Word of God, i don't know yours.

I'm not arguing that Jesus is the Word of God. But Jesus is not the Bible. The Bible is a book, and can't be equated to Jesus. Someone may know Jesus without the Bible, and another may know the Bible without knowing Jesus. Likewise, Some may know Image123 in real life, without ever reading his posts or posts about him on nairaland.

With respect to your conclusions about me, you are free to make them. It is indeed your human right to label me whatever you like.

Cheerful greetings.

LoJ:

I'm not arguing that Jesus is the Word of God. But Jesus is not the Bible. The Bible is a book, and can't be equated to Jesus. Someone may know Jesus without the Bible, and another may know the Bible without knowing Jesus. Likewise, Some may know Image123 in real life, without ever reading his posts or posts about him on nairaland.

With respect to your conclusions about me, you are free to make them. It is indeed your human right to label me whatever you like.

Cheerful greetings.

The Word of God is found in the Bible. If your Jesus is different from the Word of God found in the Bible, sorry that's not my Jesus.

Image123:


The Word of God is found in the Bible. If your Jesus is different from the Word of God found in the Bible, sorry that's not my Jesus.

I dispute that.

If the word of God is found in the Bible, then where was the word of God when the Bible was not yet written? The oldest book of the Bible is less than 3000 years old. Do you mean the word of God is less than 3000 years old?

Greetings.

LoJ:

I dispute that.

If the word of God is found in the Bible, then where was the word of God when the Bible was not yet written? The oldest book of the Bible is less than 3000 years old. Do you mean the word of God is less than 3000 years old?

Greetings.

The Word was with God.

Image123:


The Word was with God.

Then you admit the possibility of the Word existing out of the Bible. Isn't it?

Hello to all.

On many instances agnostics and atheists like johnydon22, Plaetton and others have compared religious and spiritual concepts to the Sun. The Sun is there shining for us all. No one needs to be compelled, threatened, or persuaded in other to attest the existence of the Sun. The light it brings, the heat it produces, its effects on Nature are well observable for all. It therefore makes no sense to use duress or threat to force anyone to believe in the Sun.

I think this analogy is quite correct. Any belief/doctrine -be it religious or not - that is the result of threat or persuasion, rather than evidence is condemned to be superficial and fragile. Believing in a God by indoctrination, conditioning or because of fear/desire to get any reward, is wrong and does not ultimately give glory to God.

a Supreme Being is not afraid to be questioned! Neither does he require mumu like religious obedience and worship. And Yes he can be found and we can relate to him with sincere heart.

True Faith is not belief without proof. Real faith require proofs. The only difference is that since God and associated concepts are spiritual, the proofs can't be observed in the spiritual by Science in its present state. Just as many many years ago, science could not observe and attest with evidence the existence of micro organisms. That did not mean they didn't exist. Until appropriate tools were developed... I am confident that in the future it will be possible for scientist to observe maybe not spiritual but at least astral and ethereal happenings.

In the meantime, I know the human body has organs to "see" and examine in the other worlds, although those organs are for most of us not functioning properly due to atrophy. However it is certainly not by religious indoctrination and threat that true faith will emerge.

Therefore, each one must be left free to examine and search for himself the Truth about God/gods. If someone after thorough examination comes to the conclusion that there be no God, then it is his free choice. It should be respected and even encouraged as sincerity is everywhere positive.

Similarly those like me who - for me after personal experiencing of the divine - know God does exist, should be encouraged to stick to their convictions provided they don't force it on others. Everyone is entitled to his belief about God/gods. It is the product of their experience. with time and experience each sincere person will easily be able to observe if his beliefs hold or are just self deception. Then he will question his beliefs or stop being sincere about them.

Sorry if my Post was lengthy. I wish you all blessings.

LoJ:

Then you admit the possibility of the Word existing out of the Bible. Isn't it?

i never doubted that fact. Jesus Christ is the eternal God. He is the One who was, and is, and is to come. The point made is that there's no Jesus Christ contradicting the Bible, neither is there a true follower of His that contradicts the Bible or lives contrary to its teaching/doctrine.

Image123:


i never doubted that fact. Jesus Christ is the eternal God. He is the One who was, and is, and is to come. The point made is that there's no Jesus Christ contradicting the Bible, neither is there a true follower of His that contradicts the Bible or lives contrary to its teaching/doctrine.

You never mentioned Jesus contradicting the Bible. You spoke about Jesus being found in the Bible.

It is your belief that the Bible represents perfectly the teaching of Jesus and the will of God. I disagree with that claim. However it is my principle to respect whatever people are genuinely convinced about. You seem convinced about this claim, I will therefore not elaborate why I disagree with that. If however anyone is confused and would like to know why I dispute that claim, I'd gladly offer my humble opinion and reasons.

It has been for me a pleasure to discuss with you. I wish we have other opportunities to do so.

Cheerful greetings.

LoJ:

You never mentioned Jesus contradicting the Bible. You spoke about Jesus being found in the Bible.

It is your belief that the Bible represents perfectly the teaching of Jesus and the will of God. I disagree with that claim. However it is my principle to respect whatever people are genuinely convinced about. You seem convinced about this claim, I will therefore not elaborate why I disagree with that. If however anyone is confused and would like to know why I dispute that claim, I'd gladly offer my humble opinion and reasons.

It has been for me a pleasure to discuss with you. I wish we have other opportunities to do so.

Cheerful greetings.

Opinions are a dime a dozen, personal opinions about Jesus are not enough. My initial call was about true Christians being followers of Jesus Christ, thereby followers of the Bible. The three are in sync. I'll reply to the general post later as it is flawed.

LoJ:
Hello to all.

On many instances agnostics and atheists like johnydon22, Plaetton and others have compared religious and spiritual concepts to the Sun. The Sun is there shining for us all. No one needs to be compelled, threatened, or persuaded in other to attest the existence of the Sun. The light it brings, the heat it produces, its effects on Nature are well observable for all. It therefore makes no sense to use duress or threat to force anyone to believe in the Sun.

I think this analogy is quite correct. Any belief/doctrine -be it religious or not - that is the result of threat or persuasion, rather than evidence is condemned to be superficial and fragile. Believing in a God by indoctrination, conditioning or because of fear/desire to get any reward, is wrong and does not ultimately give glory to God.

a Supreme Being is not afraid to be questioned! Neither does he require mumu like religious obedience and worship. And Yes he can be found and we can relate to him with sincere heart.

True Faith is not belief without proof. Real faith require proofs. The only difference is that since God and associated concepts are spiritual, the proofs can't be observed in the spiritual by Science in its present state. Just as many many years ago, science could not observe and attest with evidence the existence of micro organisms. That did not mean they didn't exist. Until appropriate tools were developed... I am confident that in the future it will be possible for scientist to observe maybe not spiritual but at least astral and ethereal happenings.

In the meantime, I know the human body has organs to "see" and examine in the other worlds, although those organs are for most of us not functioning properly due to atrophy. However it is certainly not by religious indoctrination and threat that true faith will emerge.

Therefore, each one must be left free to examine and search for himself the Truth about God/gods. If someone after thorough examination comes to the conclusion that there be no God, then it is his free choice. It should be respected and even encouraged as sincerity is everywhere positive.

Similarly those like me who - for me after personal experiencing of the divine - know God does exist, should be encouraged to stick to their convictions provided they don't force it on others. Everyone is entitled to his belief about God/gods. It is the product of their experience. with time and experience each sincere person will easily be able to observe if his beliefs hold or are just self deception. Then he will question his beliefs or stop being sincere about them.

Sorry if my Post was lengthy. I wish you all blessings.

Why is religion and spirituality compared only to the Sun, why not to education or civilization or health for instance? Education, civilization and health are good things you all will agree to. These three require some level of persuasion and even compelling in some instances to be achieved. These three are vital to human life also from day to day. Their effects are well observable to all, especially human beings. These are more real than using just the Sun. Every living thing needs Sun, only humans use religion, education, health and civilization in the ways that we broadly know them.
If we force a community to be immunized or a state government brings a law for children to be educated to secondary school level. If schools base results and grades on attendance and punctuality even, can we also say it is superficial and fragile?
Should each one be left free, respected and encouraged to educate and heal himself/herself or form their basis of civilization? Why not if not? Are institutions and corporations insincere when they demand specifics like when they want to employ or promote?

Image123:


Why is religion and spirituality compared only to the Sun, why not to education or civilization or health for instance? Education, civilization and health are good things you all will agree to. These three require some level of persuasion and even compelling in some instances to be achieved. These three are vital to human life also from day to day. Their effects are well observable to all, especially human beings. These are more real than using just the Sun. Every living thing needs Sun, only humans use religion, education, health and civilization in the ways that we broadly know them.
If we force a community to be immunized or a state government brings a law for children to be educated to secondary school level. If schools base results and grades on attendance and punctuality even, can we also say it is superficial and fragile?
Should each one be left free, respected and encouraged to educate and heal himself/herself or form their basis of civilization? Why not if not? Are institutions and corporations insincere when they demand specifics like when they want to employ or promote?

My Oga Image123, your wisdom will not finish! Thanks for your apt response. I always enjoy your reasoning and wisdom.

Alore:

My Oga Image123, your wisdom will not finish! Thanks for your apt response. I always enjoy your reasoning and wisdom.

he wrote apologists crbap

;&