GooseBaba:


Scientific premise.... Not beliefs.

Do you believe in mathematics before using it..?

If and when new evidence emerge, that premise changes. Therefore, evolution theory does not equate to atheism. Are you implying that theist do not utilize this theory of evolution?

Evolution theory is a premise to answer a question by conceptualizing intricate details. "Intelligent creator" is simply a premise used to lay claim on the mysteries surrounding us as absolute. I can also utilize the concept of intelligent design or creator without calling it a diety.

cloudgoddess:

LOL! You think biblical law is the "character development" we need? Nawa oh... Tell me more about how we need to go back to "witch" burnings and non-virgin stonings, and slavery, and public executions. Because when the bible was taken as law, societies were just as barbaric as Islamic-ruled states are presently.

The bible is a crap book to turn to for any type of moral guidance if you actually read it for face value.
Really, the moral standards of the bible exceed that of any human society or government by incomparable margins.
It's so high, A person needs God's grace to comply.

No modern law in any functioning developed country operates off of biblical standards of "morality".
The legal and moral codes of the western nations were framed by the bible.
All success principles find their parallels in the bible.
All successful corporations use biblical management techniques-
Infact, the more a person/corporation becomes legally upstanding and successful,the more it finds
itself operating according to bible principles.


By the way a typical humanist freethinker has far more "character" than the average deluded self-centered Christian,
Deluded. Self-centered christian! what a term.
Deluded because He believes in God and self centered because he thinks only of himself.
No mature christian can be this and please God.
So maybe you're referring to baby christians. Babies are self centered.
But that notwithstanding, if a person doesnt believe in God, morality and "doing good" is pointless.
And being judged for being evil is pointless. Self centeredness should be encouraged and praised because
life is meaningless, going nowhere and we'll all die so why not grab all we can while we can.
A purely hedonistic outlook.


in Nigeria or anywhere else. At least his ideas of right and wrong come from sound, up-to-date reasoning and genuine compassion for humanity,
Mankinds, sense of morality doesnt always issue from logic. so forget about "right reasoning".
They're primitive communities all over the world, with a sense of rightness and justice.
It is inbuilt into man's conscience to know what is right.
Did people reason, that cheating in business is wrong. or that killing another human is wrong. Or that lying is wrong? Nobody teaches you these things. It's in the conscience. Even in man's fallen state, his conscience still has a notion of rightness or wrongness.


rather than 20 century-old misogynist, war obsessed cave dwellers' ideas of what an equally barbaric "god" would want.

cloudgoddess:

Too bad sin is imaginary. I'll bet the "aggravation of sin" you speak of is sh*t that's only bad according to the bible. Consexual, safe sex between non-related adults of appropriate age (and any kinks and variations of it, no matter how "perverted" they seem to you and your closed mind) is not morally wrong by any reasonable standard.
Until you can create a human body and give it life and make it function. You are not qualified to say how it is to be used or what constitutes a (mis-use/abuse) of it.
The One who created the human body and the experience of sx. clearly set the parameters
and boundaries for its use.
You say, Adultery is not morally wrong- yet You wouldnt want your hubby to cheat on you with another woman. If you would, most women wouldnt, I mean atheist women.
If you would and dont mind, most atheists will consider you wierd!.
Nothing wrong! Yet it doesnt sit well with many.


Homosexuality, etc. is not morally wrong by any reasonable standard. These and similar things do not harm anyone but are demonized due to moronic, hateful, and ignorant 1st century logic.

Like I said, You are not qualified to calculate the gravity of sin. Or to dictate what constitutes sin.
Your principle is "if it doesnt hurt any one , it isnt wrong".
But you can't see the consequence of sin or its impact , so you're unqualified to judge.
By your standard, you wouldnt be able to distinguish pervesions.
incest would be ok,by your standard because,
"it doesnt hurt nobody"
drugs would be ok because "it hurts no one but the taker"
gluttony would be ok because "it hurts no one"

Using the body for what it wasnt designed for is ok because it hurts no one.
You dont see you've created your own scripture , and it is your guiding light on issues ,yet say
atheism isnt a religion. It is.


When discussing real moral issues, like human rights, safety, just punishment for murder, rape, and theft, etc -- we can see that the average developed society is doing far better than the barbarians of the bible times.
The bible standards if complied to by all societies would see marked improvements in all facet of society.
Your term barbarism is sweeping and vague.
The canaanites in the old testaments sacrificed their children on fire to their gods.
The practiced zoophilia and astrology.
You dont see nothing wrong with that. But when God metes out justice against such grotesqueness
you gripe.
Don't you see that by your moral stand of "if it hurts nobody , do it", society will degenerate
into a state worst than the dark ages?
What if people started doing wierd things like having sx in public, in parks, in cars (this is already happening), in offices etc.


Back then people were willing to throw rocks at a woman until her skin was torn and she bled to death, for failing to prove her "virginity" on her first night of coitus with her spouse. Try that in the 21st century UK, US, or Netherlands and see how quickly you're behind bars or in a psychiatric ward.

if you study history, the nations before christianity were all barbaric and wild.
It was the spread of christianity that ushered in modern civilization and economic advancement of
the nations you mention above.
So they owe their prosperity to the gospel.
By contrast look at countries that were rarely penetrated by christianity, china,japan etc
and check up their level of morality and regard for human life.
All nations that have a notion of the dignity of life and the human got those from judeo-christian principles.
So the christianity is directly responsible for shaping humanistic world legal system.
The bible you criticise is one you dont understand. In old testament, sin was judged immediately.
But in modern times, Jesus' has taken the bullet for every one.
Any right thinking person will see that the system for justice in the old testament is different
than in the new testament.
You are deliberately being biased,because the new testament standard is very noble.
Do you mention what Jesus said when a woman was caught in adultery?
He was barbaric and said "Stone her" or how did he react?
You can never mention that because, it will add points to christianity and religion and take the edge of your criticism.


Ironically the only regions you still see outlandishly immoral acts being carried out on a regular basis, like the unjust killing of innocents, persecution of the innocent, & rape and mistreatment of women, is in countries that refuse to let go of their religions' "guidance".

Man is pushing the limits on what is acceptable. Was this always the case ? No.

LOL have you read any history book? Have you not learned of any of the f*cked up scenarios carried out by humans as far back as 3000 BC? Or is your only knowledge the bible... because that would explain this very ignorant statement.

If you read history books,you'll see that there was a period known as the dark ages.
There was no advancement technologically and intellectually because people were in spiritual darkness.
But after martin luther's revolt and people began to read the bible. Prosperity ushered in to the world.
Before then there were barbarians and barbaric customs.
Before the fall of rome etc
Sin must've been rampant along with hedonism (which is on the rise today)
But , after the renaissance, after the dark ages, things have never gotten as bad as it is today.
The rate and degree of depravity is reaching epic levels.
World wide.

asalimpo:

Without belief in an intelligent creator, evolution and the big bang theory is all any person is left with to explain the origin of the planet and life.

cloudgoddess:

Hello

My stance is that some mystical force or entity that is currently alien to humanity could exist. But as you said, I completely disagree with religion's standpoint on it -- anything that claims to know what "it" is, what it wants (if it even wants anything), what it thinks (if it even "thinks" ), how it looks (if it even has an appearance), etc.

I don't entirely find the belief in some non-personal, non-dogmatified deity one loosely refers to as "God" problematic. I'm very open to discourse about things like where the natural laws that govern our universe come from, how powerful we are as human beings and how much we're truly capable of, what happened before the big bang and the existence of a multiverse. Some people like to refer to such concepts using words like "intelligence" or "god-force" or "life-force". I have no problem with that sort of thing, although I feel it can sometimes get in the way of useful scientific inquiry, or even cause people to conflate science with pseudoscientific "woo-woo".

Weah96:


False dichotomy. I'm guessing the intelligent creator to whom you refer likes to talk to people and tell them to write books.

Look at my signature. The real truth is not obligated to make sense. The truth doesn't owe your brain any favors.

asalimpo:

in other words the truth of how the world began and life, can be completely illogical and you as an atheist will accept it. Why then dyu scoff at the bible and ridicule its stories and miracles?

Weah96:


The Bible disproves itself. I've been though that before. Secondly, true things should be proven true no matter how ridiculous. The Bible falls short of that too.

You can't just use mouth or pen to DECLARE truth. Have respect for your fellow man enough to provide a DEMONSTRATION.

asalimpo:

So if the rapture occured , you'd admit you were wrong and that atheism is a deception and you were decieved by it?
First is the admission that the event that happened is the rapture.

asalimpo:

The theory of evolution is atheistic.
Some christians/theists believe in evolution. But as after creation. That is living things continue
to evolve and adapt according to environmental demands, after they were created by God.
The atheistic viewpoint is different.
How do you attribute creation to a creator without the creator being a diety/god? Impossible.

asalimpo:

Most things that can be proven are physical things . Subject to the physical senses or laws of logic.
Outside of that are things that arent in the realm of the 5 senses(spiritual things). Asking for a proof of the spiritual, is assuming that the physical and intellectual world is all there is.
This is the assumption you stick to ,the bible sticks to another so there's no meeting point.
If there's a realm beyond the senses, the only way to deal with it,is to believe it or reject it.

Weah96:


We don't see electromagnetic radiation unless it's ordinary light or close to it. We can prove that gamma rays exist even if our senses cannot detect them.

Do you believe that this Almighty God has the RIGHT to order the kidnapping of young girls?

asalimpo:

how do atheist explain the origin of life and the planet, then?

asalimpo:


you can't see the rays, but they're still physical phenomena. E.g radio waves, though not felt or seen can be monitored by devices that render them discernable by our senses. So they are still physical.
Science deals only with the physical or the observable.
For spiritual things however, physical devices can't capture them. Yet,theyre real.

Weah96:


Things are not real simply because you can use your mouth to declare them real. The human senses must be able to detect an objective manifestation. This manifestation must be repeatable.

GooseBaba:


Lol...let your imagination run wild bro..you've simply subjected your mind to the construct of others. Free your mind and reason without fear. Fear is the sole reason why you await rapture nothing more.

When you say the "creator" has to be a diety. I put this to you. The creator is TIME... Ponder on that for a minute and try not to subject your mind with your current god concept.

asalimpo:

You mean ponder on the foolishness of your reply.
How does an inaminate phenomena,time, exhibit the qualities of an intelligent being? A highly intelligent being.
Practicing selection, after thought, foresight etc.

Time chose planet earth, built an atmosphere around it that can sustain life. Selected one creature for higher intelligence-man, out of all the millions of creatures. Etc
yeah, time did that.
Y cant time do it again?
If you put lifeless organisms in a lab for 10 years and go away, will you return to see higher lifeforms?

GooseBaba:


Hehehehe....... You my friend are a shallow thinker. No wonder your mind is caged for rapture. He who believes in rapture has the audacity to question objective thoughts. Smh even your Yahweh knows the power of time. Did he not rest on the seventh day.. Lol... I mean is it not time you're waiting for, for the next coming of your saviour to come back and correct his failures..?

Remember i told you to put your god concept asunder and think freely. Instead you came back trying to reinforce and regurgitate the same old crap. At bolded, do you have any proof that your god did any of those things you mentioned. I said proof ohhh... Not claims.

Besides, how can a god who received an inheritance be a supreme dude...

asalimpo:


keep to the argument. How does an inanimate quantity /phenomena acquire and display High intelligence. Non chaotic order and Intricate patterns, baffling the smartest mind.
Time is aphysical, to compose compound systems from the base components (assuming they pre existed) some form of FORCE must exist. Next, Deliberate INTENT must exist. Then SKILL and KNOWLEDGE , and IMAGINATION must exist.
These five qualities must have been present in whatever entity created life as we know it. Attributing these qualities to an inanimate object ,time, is laughable at the very least. Talk of shallow thinking.. Whose mind is being caged?

GooseBaba:


Exactly...!!! Why should I call it a diety...!!? The same is said for you how did your god come to existence...? Out of thin air, try and scrutinize that first and see if your mind is not caged. You're somewhat delusional to see yourself as an authority to present five qualities for nothing to create something.. Lol..

You fall my hand ohhh, time equals inanimate object... do you know what time is...?

Let's not forget, I told you a creator premise does not have to be a diety. I don't have to defend it. It's just is....! You on the other hand have to defend a creator that rapes his own creation.. Ponder on that my shallow friend. Your mind is soooo caged bro....

Weah96:


And you expect to get carried in the wind, too? Hahaha.
You don't know what blackmail means. I am making a mockery of the nonsensical idea of the rapture, not trying to blackmail you.

finofaya:

I was resting before the OP came along na. You?

asalimpo:


does a creator need to be created?
You are projecting properties of creatures to a creator.
If the creator is a creature then He is a subject to a Higher One.

The God of the bible,the only God,I recognize , makes it plain that He has no Origin .
From everlasting to everlasting,He is God.

Whoever created intelligent life ,must be intelligent.
Whoever created order in life must Himself be orderly.
Whoesover created beauty must appreciate beauty.
The such an entity must have the Will, power and intent to realize His goal-to create and sustain life.

Attributing all these to an inanimate object,time,is the height of denial and self delusion.

If you want to counter,show how time, could do all these.

analice107:

It's not me you are blackmailing. You are attempting to blackmail God or so to speak, by trying to paint the Most High in bad light using children. But your attempts are so weak, as you talk out of ignorance. At rapture, no child remains behind, so quit the blackmail already.

GooseBaba:


I told you from the onset that a creator does not have to be a diety...

GooseBaba:


Lmao...!!!!! You haven't shown how your god did his own. Just mere claims... I told you from the onset that a creator does not have to be a diety... You still dey foam for mouth. Show me proof where your god created time... I put it to you TIME created Yahweh and in due time, it will discard Yahweh like many other gods before him...

asalimpo:


the Bible says a lot about how God created the world.
It also connotes that God is outside time and cannot be bound by it. For example, when Joshua prayed for the sun to stand still, (his logic was wrong, then they thought the sun revolved around the earth), God suspended time.

2) God sees the end from the beginning, that means time is his tool and not otherwise. If God were subject to time, he'd only be knowledgeable of the present and the past. Never,the future. When, you read the bible,you see many phrases like "And it came to pass as the Lord/servant of the Lord said ... "

Finally, saying time created God is as absurd as saying, handset you use created you!
Or the book you are reading created the reader. Simply,illogical.

You show proof if you have or provide more details to your argument. It's baseless and unintelligent.

GooseBaba:


Proof is all around you..... History is my proof.The same thing was said about gods of the past. Where are they today...? Time conquers all...meanwhile I don't need to provide any details. IT'S JUST IS...!!! What has never changed..? Wait for it...TIME.. Your god used to be vocal, now the motherfuvker is silent. Allegedly speaking through simpletons, con artist and thieves. But time will tell..

And your analogy suvks azz. We know the company that manufactures phones, we know writers of books.. No blind beliefs needed.. Try again... You're too slow..

Quoting a book and laying claims is not proof dude. A man who believes in rapture uses the word baseless and unintelligent... Smh... You're proof that We sure live in a sick world..

asalimpo:


Cool your head and think. focus.
You said time created God - flesh out this comment.

"history is all around you ... history is my proof " - proof of what?
That time created God? or that time creates intelligent life from nothing or inanimate building blocks?

"time conquers all ... " - what does this mean?
Conquers God. Conquers what?
So if people sit around and do nothing, and time passes by 'time' on its own will 'conquer all'
: i.e if doctors resigned , left their instruments in the lab, played golf all day.
Time will come in work for 10 years and produce a cure for aids, cancer, diabetes etc?
Time the invisible being will work alone and make a way?
Or is man working concertedly thru time that makes a way?


"I dont need to provide any details. IT JUST IS "
In other words , you believe in time as an agent by faith!
No proof . No details. Just blind belief.
Hmm. You've gotten into the realm of believing without seeing or physical evidence.
Yet find the Bible's command to believe in God without seeing ridiculous!

Your analogy sucks-
No, it doesnt. It parallels what you said.
Time (inanimate concept/object) created God (supreme intelligence)
in the same vein,
an inanimate object (a book) can create a dynamic object (a reader) -
a car can create a driver! see how ridiculous your example is?

GooseBaba:


Hehehehe, when I said free your mind you did not listen.
free my mind to illogical reasoning? Like inanimate objects ,time, creating intelligent beings ?


First thing first, you're one with nature not separate. You're one with time not separate.
vague statements. Elaborate.
Are you one with the air you breathe?
Provide authoritative citations behind this statement.


And time is no deity. Get that through your shallow brain.
deep brain, where did i call time diety?


You keep separating time like it's not part of your existence.

this comment is hollow.
Theyre are many things part of your existence in this physical world e.g. Gravity,air,weather, do they take on creationist roles because theyre part and parcel of living in this world?




The world over know time and don't need to have faith in it.

Time is an inanimate object.
Besides you are the one spewing on about how time created God and everything. So y,admonish me about faith in time?


Not the same for your god that needs books and prophets.

here,you get confused and compare time to God, insinuating that 'time' is a better god because it is known by ever1.
So what scriptures, did your time God hand to you?


While doctors and engineers were researching and building, they measured their results with time. Not sky daddy.
were they suppose to measure results by God before? They also used many instruments of measurements like: money, men(labour), resources.
Smart,people know that time is just a dimension, not a being.


There came a TIME when Yahweh received his inheritance he is but a child not a supreme being.

citation needed.
Anoda claim without proof.

My friend don't drag me into your mental delusion. Can't you read and comprehend.
The delusion that life was intelligently designed by an intelligent being ?
An inimate object creating complex life,is sense to you?



Time is a premise not a diety. So where is the belief or blind faith coming from.
read the comment inciting my reply.

You're the simpleton that believes in rapture and make shiiit up as he goes to defend it. [b]
The rapture is a bible prophecy.
The bible doesnt need defending.
If you are too wise to believe the bible, fine.
But believing time created intelligent life, makes you worst than a simpleton.

I don't need faith/beliefs to factor time and man's efforts.
[b]
Your analogy continues to be senile and daft.
i drew parallels to your claim.
So, this comment is mere drivel.


it's a fact that we KNOW of engineers, authors, doctors, inventors etc. no need for faith. We KNOW who they are, and we can't ask them questions.
But you claim Yahweh created time and I asked you where did he give us the formula.
Formula for what?
To create time? Does He owe man the knowledge to be God?


The mere fact that you would compare a so called work of a "creation with the creator" shows your level of shallow thinking.

And out of point.
Besides, doing so wouldnt constitute hollow reasoning.


Pre colonial africa there was no such diety as Yahweh. With Time we have Yahweh, as time continues jesus becomes god.

So.. Time created all those?

It's already happening. What's the common denominator. TIME.. Who is making the changes? MAN.
theyre other 'denominators' like gravity, the earth itself,the solar system etc
so are these denominators intelligent designers,that can create the world,earth,etc just because theyve always existed?


This we KNOW.... No beliefs or faith needed. It's happening all around you, history backs my assertion.

But your reasons to credit a particular diety is soaked in belief and blind faith,
my belief is based on the bible.
All belief about the origin of life will always be faith based because no one was there when it happened.




which you're struggling to force on my assertion.
i'm not 'struggling' ,neither am i 'forcing' on you. Your assertions are illogical. Inanimate objects cannot create intelligent Life.