Krayola abi na Crayon
I await your response to my response to your inital question. And thanks to David for pointing out that post to you.

JeSoul:


[color=#990000]1 Thess 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

In Jewish faith the idea of an afterlife, and apocalypse, or final judgment type thing, developed under Imperial oppression. It was never part of the faith. Go back to the beginning, the covenant with Abraham, the laws to Moses. These are basically the most definitive points of contact between God and Israel. The covenant with Abraham was that they stay faithful to him and they will be a great nation that will last generation after generation. No mention of death of afterlife. Even the laws of Moses, and all the ones in Deuteronomy. U would think if there were consequences for obedience/disobedience as astounding as heaven or hell, or a coming of a future kingdom God would have mentioned it. It wasn't part of the covenant with Abraham and Moses and all the earlier Jewish heroes never believed or had any such agreement with God. (U'd think something so important would have come up)

The first signs of afterlife/ apocalyptic type stuff is after the babylonian exile. (In books like Daniel) Ideas from Greek culture started to influence Jewish thought. . .stuff like zoroastrianism.  Those types of doctrines develop under imperial rule, when Rabbis started using it to explain to Jews why God would let them suffer when they had been obeying laws.  It's complicated but if u really wanna look into it just google "Afterlife in Judaism". and read a few things on it and u'll get an idea of what i mean. It only appears in the post biblical writings of Rabbis and it caused conflict within the Jewish community because some refused to accept cause it wasn't supported by any of the covenants that the people had made to God. But around the times when Jesus and Paul were living this type of doctrine was very popular (Romans came in about 60 yrs before Jesus). Like I said a lot of this stuff is complicated, but that something as important as eternal life or damnation was never mentioned in any of the Laws or covenants with the founding fathers(even till David,Solomom) of the faith speaks volumes.

JeSoul:


 If that's the approach you're going to adopt in dealing with biblical issues then you must throw the baby out along with the bath water, because Scriptures do not stand alone by themselves. They are all related, constantly refer to each other, and are understood in light of each other and must be read in harmony with each other to get to the true and more importantly intended meaning of the one author - God.

Thats where the whole problem is. That people think there is one author, God. I'm goin to try and show u that the Bible has been tampered with. And maybe if i can make a good case u will understand why people have to be careful what they take as authorotative in the Bible.

Have u ever heard the argument that when Paul founded the Church that women and men were of equal status (preaching/authority), and that changed after his death?

@chukwudi
Rapture is not a pentecostal invention its another invention fromthe RCC, if you care to know John Nelson Darby was a Jesuit!

Krayola2:

In Jewish faith the idea of an afterlife, and apocalypse, or final judgment type thing, developed under Imperial oppression. It was never part of the faith.

  I am no expert in matters of Judaism. But I thank God it has nothing to do with the point right now.
I have consistently maintained that different world views exist, differing opinions and different beliefs - how does any of this amount to having evidence for or against the rapture?

You were the one who said there is "evidence" against the authenticity of the rapture. Besides everyone's personal opinion, where and what is the elusive evidence?

Go back to the beginning, the covenant with Abraham, the laws to Moses. These are basically the most definitive points of contact between God and Israel. The covenant with Abraham was that they stay faithful to him and they will be a great nation that will last generation after generation. No mention of death of afterlife. Even the laws of Moses, and all the ones in Deuteronomy. U would think if there were consequences for obedience/disobedience as astounding as heaven or hell, or a coming of a future kingdom God would have mentioned it. It wasn't part of the covenant with Abraham and Moses and all the earlier Jewish heroes never believed or had any such agreement with God. (U'd think something so important would have come up)

  So if I'm understanding you correctly, because the rapture wasn't mentioned in the Abrahimic times (until the book of Daniel) this qualifies as evidence against it? Are you serious?

Thats where the whole problem is. That people think there is one author, God. I'm goin to try and show u that the Bible has been tampered with. And maybe if i can make a good case u will understand why people have to be careful what they take as authorotative in the Bible.

 
  Lol, shey na you tamper with am? Okay look, we can argue from now till the rapture (pun intended) about whether the bible is divine or not - neither of us can prove it either way so lets save the cybertime we would otherwise waste 'discussing' that.
However, I do find it intresting you've been building your arguments from the same bible you're now claiming is corrupted. Its a double standard if you ask me but hey you didn't . . .

Have u ever heard the argument that when Paul founded the Church that women and men were of equal status (preaching/authority), and that changed after his death?

Another thread for another time. Paul is unfortunately one of the most misunderstood men in the history of the world.

JeSoul:

  I am no expert in matters of Judaism. But I thank God it has nothing to do with the point right now.
I have consistently maintained that different world views exist, differing opinions and different beliefs - how does any of this amount to having evidence for or against the rapture?

Jesus was a jew, so was Paul. To understand them, you have to understand Judaism. Like i said. This isn't easy stuff and unless u're willing to study the stuff urself, i can't do anything about it. Jesus grew up a Jew under imperial rule. So did Paul. You can't remove them from their society and pretend they were in no way influenced by it. That is what happens when people just read the Bible without recreating the context in which the stuff was written. We kid ourselves when we think we get what they're saying because we have read the words.

JeSoul:

You were the one who said there is "evidence" against the authenticity of the rapture. Besides everyone's personal opinion, where and what is the elusive evidence? So if I'm understanding you correctly, because the rapture wasn't mentioned in the Abrahimic times (until the book of Daniel) this qualifies as evidence against it? Are you serious?

The evidence is not one post i'm goin to make that is goin to make u go oh, i see, now i believe u . until u realize that we`re not going anywhere. u have to go sit in a library urself and sort thru it. U've believed this stuff ur whole life. . .who am i to change ur mind? . .i can only get u interested in researching the stuff urself.

 

JeSoul:
 
  Lol, shey na you tamper with am? Okay look, we can argue from now till the rapture (pun intended) about whether the bible is divine or not - neither of us can prove it either way so lets save the cybertime we would otherwise waste 'discussing' that.
However, I do find it intresting you've been building your arguments from the same bible you're now claiming is corrupted. Its a double standard if you ask me but hey you didn't . . .

Read 1st corinthians (14: 33-36) and 1st Tomothy 2: 8-15 . .go to ur local library and ask them for where they keep their biblilical commentaries. . .do some research on those passages. Then try and find material on the "grotto of st. paul" (u might have to look at some stuff on archaelogy. i cant find anything good on line). . look for info on the fresco of Paulos and theoklia that was found on the west wall. do the math. If u don't check it out urself, nothing i say is goin to make u doubt something u have believed ur whole life.

listen, the bible isn't all tampered with.  but u have to learn bout it to know how to sort through it. I'm only a student so i don't know all of it, but i think i know a fair lil bit. The only reason why i read this stuff is because if i don't I fail, and waste a bunch of money. I don't have a choice, i have to read it. I'm not religious so it isn't of much use to me, but i just feel i should share with others. If u're not interested in even lookin it up, then i'll be on my way. There's nothing in this for me.

JeSoul:

Another thread for another time. Paul is unfortunately one of the most misunderstood men in the history of the world.

I fully agree. just started reading a book on him. I'm still in the preface and i'm already confused.

Krayola2:

Jesus was a jew, so was Paul. To understand them, you have to understand Judaism. Like i said. This isn't easy stuff and unless u're willing to study the stuff urself, i can't do anything about it. Jesus grew up a Jew under imperial rule. So did Paul. You can't remove them from their society and pretend they were in no way influenced by it. That is what happens when people just read the Bible without recreating the context in which the stuff was written. We kid ourselves when we think we get what they're saying because we have read the words.

Rather than wrestle with you the significance or insignificance of having an indepth knowledge of judaism, I'll ask you a simple question and point you right back to the bible.

When Jesus called His disciples - 12 of them - how many of them were well educated & knowledgeable men? how many of them were scholars? When Jesus preached to crowds was the prerequisite for belief & in order to be able to sit in the audience a deep knowledge of history?
I'm not saying knowing the context and history of something is not a huge bouns, but you're going in a direction that is entirely irrelevant to the topic under discussion.

  What does this verse in 1Thess say according to your own interpretation?
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

  Please keep it simple and explain this verse. Thank you.

Read 1st corinthians (14: 33-36) and 1st Tomothy 2: 8-15 . .go to ur local library and ask them for where they keep their biblilical commentaries. . .do some research on those passages. Then try and find[b] material on the "grotto of st. paul" [/b] (u might have to look at some stuff on archaelogy. i cant find anything good on line). . look for info on the fresco of Paulos and theoklia that was found on the west wall. do the math. If u don't check it out urself, nothing i say is goin to make u doubt something u have believed ur whole life.

   Lol, you make me smile Krayola.
Of all the above extra-biblical sources you cited above, how many of them can prove what they believe to be true? Aren't they are stating their opinions and 'best' possible subjective analysis of the scriptures? [/b]Reading and studying other viewpoints are good - my dad always taught me that no knowledge is wasted - but it is still a personal opinion not an established provable fact. But please again just simply tell me how you interpret the verse above.

[b]listen, the bible isn't all tampered with.  but u have to learn bout it to know how to sort through it. I'm only a student so i don't know all of it, but i think i know a fair lil bit. The only reason why i read this stuff is because if i don't I fail, and waste a bunch of money. I don't have a choice, i have to read it. I'm not religious so it isn't of much use to me, but i just feel i should share with others. If u're not interested in even lookin it up, then i'll be on my way. There's nothing in this for me.

  Okay so now its only parts of the bible that are corrupted? and who is this authority that we should all be taking cue from as to which parts are still 'untampered' with? Don't you see how such a position is duplicitous?

I fully agree. just started reading a book on him. I'm still in the preface and i'm already confused.

  Well good luck. I can tell you trying to read/understand spiritual things/the bible without the Spirit of God will always leave a person confused.

Krayola2:

 In Jewish faith the idea of an afterlife, and apocalypse, or final judgment type thing, developed under Imperial oppression. It was never part of the faith. Go back to the beginning, the covenant with Abraham, the laws to Moses. These are basically the most definitive points of contact between God and Israel. The covenant with Abraham was that they stay faithful to him and they will be a great nation that will last generation after generation. No mention of death of afterlife. Even the laws of Moses, and all the ones in Deuteronomy. U would think if there were consequences for obedience/disobedience as astounding as heaven or hell, or a coming of a future kingdom God would have mentioned it. It wasn't part of the covenant with Abraham and Moses and all the earlier Jewish heroes never believed or had any such agreement with God. (U'd think something so important would have come up)

[size=18pt]The first signs of afterlife/ apocalyptic type stuff is after the babylonian exile. (In books like Daniel)[/size]

this is just bizarre!

Has this guy ever heard of Enoch or Elijah? where do you think they went? How do you think the jews understood their disappearance if, as you have just successfully lied to us, they knew NOTHING about an afterlife?

Does the fact that not everything is written IN PLAIN LANGUAGE in the bible signify its non-existence?

I remember watching about Paul and Thecla in a tv documentary.

Interesting stuff but those fresco were painted way after Paul's life and letters. I think. Plus, there is also the possibility that it is the Acts of Paul that is a fake rather than those verses in Timothy and Corinthians.

Just my thoughts.

@ dvidylan
haha, olodo rabata. Elijah died, abi? And wtf do u know about enoch? u're so clueless it's embarrassing readin ur posts. I almost feel sorry for u. Science? olodo, bible sef, olodo. all u know na to dey lick my testicles up and down. dodoyo.

Krayola2:

@ dvidylan
haha, olodo rabata. Elijah died, abi? And wtf do u know about enoch? u're so clueless it's embarrassing readin ur posts. I almost feel sorry for u. Science? olodo, bible sef, olodo. all u know na to dey lick my testicles up and down. dodoyo.

elijah died? I give up.

- Clueless? Sorry but that title squarely belongs to you . . . see above for clues pls.

- Olodo at science? I laugh . . . dude let me just leave it at that.

To those who are interested in facts . . . not deliberate and dishonest distortion of the bible to suit their warped ideology . . .

Gen 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: 24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Isnt it funny that NOT A SINGLE JEW (including Moses who wrote Genesis), those Krayola LIED had no idea about an afterlife, never once questioned where God took Enoch to?

2 Kings 2: 1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

But i thought that according to the FRAUDULENT Krayola2, heaven and the afterlife didnt start showing up until Daniel? What heaven did Elijah know he was going to? To do what there? And why did the writers of Kings not query this odd "heaven" they had allegedly never heard about?

3 And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

What was this heaven that the sons of the prophets and Elisha knew about? I thought, according to the lying Krayola2, that they didnt know about heaven until the book of Daniel?

5 And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace.

Even the prophets at Jericho knew about this heaven too? Unbelievable! VErse 7 even says they were at least more than 50!

11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

So Elijah didnt die?

Who are these trolls who parade here with such a shallow knowledge of the bible which they claim to debate?

@ davidyln. like i said, u're incredibly clueless, what does afterlife mean? Ure daft. i'm not replying ur posts again. seriously. just go
U can't even tell  rhetorical question when u see one. . the buffon went digging for answers that only make my point. u're just sad


@ pastor. Its that the female in the fresco had been disfigured. Eyes and hands scratched out, and Paul's left intact. then those verses have always been known to have been inserted and attributed to paul (telling females to be quiet and submissive). It was after paul that they tried to get women out of positions of authority in the church nd those lines inserted into Paul's writings.

Those verses are the fastest way i can get someone to see that some of the bible has been tainted. I'm hoping that since she's a female that might motivate her to look it up herself. 

That acts of apostles na long story. . i go argue tire

Krayola,

    are you going to give us your interpretation of these verses? (the upteenth time I'm asking now) or are you going to maintain that these verses are from the "tampered with" part of the bible?

1 Thess 4:16-17 "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Cor 15:51 "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet."

Thank you.

What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? She said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?

The point I was making with Judaism was how the whole idea of a resurrection and afterlife came into being. It was a foreign idea that was popular when Jesus and Paul were growing up. It was taught in synagogues, but it wasn't really part of their doctrine. I was tryin to make a bigger point about how ideas are picked up, become popular, and take a new life form of their own.

Anyways, how do those verses u quote explain a seven year tribulation? Where did Jesus, or Paul ever say any such thing?  And its funny u mention those verses cause those are the exact ones the woman in the video quoted that are being used to spread this nonsense.



Quoting 2 verses in the bible don't mean anything. Thats not how it works.  Its like asking me to show u how to do sqaure roots when u haven't learn multiplacation and division. I just wanted to see what verses u were refering to

I'll ask yet again, can you kindly give us your own interpretation of those verses? Thank you.

Now,

Krayola2:

What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? She said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?

   Lol, what are you talking about? On what grounds do you claim to know what Paul did or did not believe?
Paul wrote the book of Thessalonians and indeed the very same passages I've been asking you to give us YOUR interpretation of.

  If all you're saying is both and you and the misguided lady in the video are choosing to not view those verses as refering to the rapture then by all means it is your perogative. But don't for an instant attempt to pass off your personal thots on the matter as the absolute truth, when countless other sources believe otherwise.

The point I was making with Judaism was how the whole idea of a resurrection and afterlife came into being. It was a foreign idea that was popular when Jesus and Paul were growing up. It was taught in synagogues, but it wasn't really part of their doctrine. I was tryin to make a bigger point about how ideas are picked up, become popular, and take a new life form of their own.

          
I wasn't going to go down the judaism road with you but you've left me no choice after making as false a statement as the bolded part.
 
[size=14pt]Jesus never spoke/taught about his coming death and resurrection?  
Jesus and Paul never taught about the afterlife? Heaven & Hell?    [/size]
At this point I must ask if you've ever even read the NT? else you would not have made such an enormously, incredibly and obviously false statement. Or perhaps all the hundreds of places they taught on it were all "tampered with"?

Anyways, how do those verses u quote explain a seven year tribulation? Where did Jesus, or Paul ever say any such thing?  And its funny u mention those verses cause those are the exact ones the woman in the video quoted that are being used to spread this nonsense.

  Weren't we talking about whether or not the rapture is real? Verses in Revelation deal with that but lets finish hammering the basics before we venture into deeper more complex issues like the tribulation.

never mind.

I won't.
Silence is response I'm used to getting in 'debates' like this.

haha. . I have tonnes of school shit to do b4 monday, and this debate is wearin me out.


just try look up those verse i told u to if u get a chance. 

JeSoul:

   [size=28pt]misguided lady[/size]

good evening my dear sister.  that is the word for the ever learning and never coming to no truth and knowledge brigade.  the multitude of books is confusing their minds.

my prayer is for God to flood their hearts with the light of the gospel.  one of the greatest joy we had last year was a pakinstani former neighbour who gave his life to christ.  he was one of those who could argue for 12hours non stop. that didnt stop him abusing his wife tho.  he is a completely different person now that the religious scle is fallen off his eyes.

i have always found ephesians 1: 17 20 useful prayers for the religiously blinded.  it is well with you

Ephesians 1 (Amplified Bible)

   [size=14pt]17[For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him,

   18By having the eyes of your heart flooded with light, so that you can know and understand the hope to which He has called you, and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints (His set-apart ones),

   19And [so that you can know and understand] what is the immeasurable and unlimited and surpassing greatness of His power in and for us who believe, as demonstrated in the working of His mighty strength,

   20Which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His [own] right hand in the heavenly [places],[/size]

   21Far above all rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named [above every title that can be conferred], not only in this age and in this world, but also in the age and the world which are to come.

   22And He has put all things under His feet and has appointed Him the universal and supreme Head of the church [a headship exercised throughout the church],(A)

   23Which is His body, the fullness of Him Who fills all in all [for in that body lives the full measure of Him Who makes everything complete, and Who fills everything everywhere with Himself].

   

Krayola2:

@ davidyln. like i said, u're incredibly clueless, what does afterlife mean? Ure daft. i'm not replying ur posts again. seriously. just go
U can't even tell  rhetorical question when u see one. . the buffon went digging for answers that only make my point. u're just sad

lol its come to insults as soon as their nonsense is exposed? Atheists . . . same ol'.

I shld ask you . . . what does "afterlife" mean? Well afterlife in the christian world is either of two destinations - heaven or hell. I mentioned 2 biblical characters who went to heaven and you're barking?

You LIED that the afterlife wasnt mentioned in the bible until Daniel (under the influence of Greek culture) . . . soon as i pointed out that the bible had actually talked of heaven in Genesis . . . you turned to insults?

This is what YOU wrote to justify the fact that heaven didnt exist until Daniel . . . in case you're blind, i highlighted the key facts.

[size=14pt]Go back to the beginning, the covenant with Abraham, the laws to Moses. These are basically the most definitive points of contact between God and Israel. The covenant with Abraham was that they stay faithful to him and they will be a great nation that will last generation after generation. No mention of death of afterlife. Even the laws of Moses, and all the ones in Deuteronomy. U would think if there were consequences for obedience/disobedience as astounding as heaven or hell, or a coming of a future kingdom God would have mentioned it. It wasn't part of the covenant with Abraham and Moses and all the earlier Jewish heroes never believed or had any such agreement with God.[/size]

Werent you the first to bring up heaven here? Now you're trying to hide under the false dichotomy of heaven or the afterlife? Really? the earlier jewish heroes never believed heaven existed? Read the story of Enoch or Elijah . . . i'm sure the jews would beg to disagree with your fraudulent and clueless claims.

Krayola2:

What u're talkin about isn't rapture. If u watched the video, its talking about rapture. .as in the whole end times of tribulation, 2 part second coming. Did u even watch the video? She said rapture is based on the traditional understanding of the 2nd coming of Jesus. Paul believed in a second coming of christ, not in rapture. Watch the video again, listen to what she says. i think u'd agree with her. Do u think people cn just piece any verse with another and it's valid just because they appear in the bible?

The point I was making with Judaism was how the whole idea of a resurrection and afterlife came into being. It was a foreign idea that was popular when Jesus and Paul were growing up. It was taught in synagogues, but it wasn't really part of their doctrine. I was tryin to make a bigger point about how ideas are picked up, become popular, and take a new life form of their own.

Anyways, how do those verses u quote explain a seven year tribulation? Where did Jesus, or Paul ever say any such thing?  And its funny u mention those verses cause those are the exact ones the woman in the video quoted that are being used to spread this nonsense.



Quoting 2 verses in the bible don't mean anything. Thats not how it works.  Its like asking me to show u how to do sqaure roots when u haven't learn multiplacation and division. I just wanted to see what verses u were refering to

these are just pointless lies . . . the idea of a resurrection and afterlife was a foreign idea? How did Enoch go to heaven and Elijah also go to heaven as far back as Genesis and 2 Kings? At least 50 prophets from Jericho witnessed Elijah's ascent to heaven and yet the afterlife was a foreign idea?

I think i have a clearer picture of what's going on . . . the irrational and rabid desperation to believe what the woman in the video said DESPITE THE FACT SHE GAVE NO PROOF TO BACK IT UP is more or less a symptom of people who forcefully want to prove that the bible is false hence justify their life of perfidy and sin.

Krayola2:

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism/beliefs/afterlife.htm

You have to wonder what the ulterior motive of these folks are . . . Infact Enoch is mentioned in the book of Genesis (the first book of the torah) as having ascended to heaven. The first book of Enoch . . . a portion of which is quoted ALMOST WORD FOR WORD in the book of Jude contains details on the apocalypse and several revelations of heaven and Angels that Enoch saw.

How did the writers of the above article completely miss the experience of Elijah?

what really was their goal? the truth or deception?

Did the authors forget Saul's consultation with the witch of Endor? If there was no afterlife then where did Samuel come from? Why would Saul consult with the witch of Endor to bring up Samuel from the dead if INDEED THE JEWISH belief in the afterlife did not fully develop until the book of Daniel?

Do these people really stop to think WITHOUT their anti-biblical bias?

google it urself. . .see what u find

u're a lost cause. ciao

Krayola2:

google it urself. . .see what u find

u're a lost cause. ciao

I read their article AT LEAST TWICE. I know the stories of Enoch and Elijah are in the very same Torah they allegedly referenced. Its strange and SUSPICIOUS that they quoted the torah from Lev to the book of Daniel and completely ignored the two most glaring evidences for the afterlife.

The lost cause here is really you. you just dont know it. But go on walking in darkness.

Enoch and Elijah never died. Do u know anything about ur faith, anything?

Krayola2:

Enoch and Elijah never died. Do u know anything about ur faith, anything?

what have i been insinuating all along? Did i say they died? So you can only witness the afterlife through death? What a deceitful phoney.

davidylan:

Do these people really stop to think WITHOUT their anti-biblical bias?

The best way to deal with these deluded fools is to ignore them. The more you reply to their aimless posts, the more you encourage them to continue to spew their hatred against anything related to Christianity. Just ignore them for once and they will realise the futility of their devilish intentions.

Chai. . . . . .Unravelings and untanglings

@ davidlyan

haha. olodo rabata. Listen, if the afterlife, the fate of all mankind, was that important i doubt we'll have to be looking so hard to find it in the old testament. It developed later, and I have shown that to you. The rest na story.

u don't trust my sources. . .i told u to google it urself. go ahead. i dare u. 

here, i've done the search for u. check all the links and decide for urself. http://www.google.ca/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_en___CA316&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=afterlife+in+judaism

Instead make u go ask ur pastor say where him find the nonsense him dey teach u, u go come dey fight me for Nairaland. Like I give a shit about ur pathetic soul. buffoon.

Yes Elijah did ascend up to "the heavens" but not into heaven. Heaven is a spirit realm and one must die first and be resurrected in "spirit form" in order to enter into heaven.( 1Corinthians 15:50) The occurrence regarding Elijah was not him being taken to heaven but him being carried off to another place on earth. As it said in 2Kings 2:16 where it said the spirit of Jehovah may have picked him up and thrown him upon one of the mountains or valleys.

It even states later in 2 Chronicles 21:12- Eventually there came a writing to him from Elijah. If Elijah had been taken to heaven he would not have later been able to write a letter to Jehoram.

I realize that some Cristians believe that the rapture is sort of an escape plan that is going to happen to faithful Christians when the end comes however only a select few are going to be given the gift of spiritual bodies and life in heaven ruling with Jesus Christ as king and that is found at Revelation 14:1-3. This group is often referred to as the "little flock". It says -I saw and look! The lamb standing upon Mt Zion and with him a hundred and forty four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their forheads. And they are singing as if a new song but the hundred and forty four thousand who have been bought from the earth.

So what of the rest of the faithful Christians? Well they are going to inherit the earth. A earth that will be free of wicked people and people that refuse to  believe that God is the rightfull ruler of the earth and all humans on it. That scripture can be found at Psalms 37:9,11- It says For evildoers themselves will be cut off, but those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will posses the earth.10.And just a little while longer and the wicked on will be no more, and you will certainly give attention to his place and he will not be11. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.