do u mean for US citizens because last time i check MIT website before they accept you for a Phd program (as a foreign student) u have to provide proof that u can pay the tuition.

The reason i used astrophysics as an example is that to complete a phd u need to spend a lot of time in a space observatory. What normally happens is that when u are doing ground breaking research u need a very powerful observatory. Since Uni Chicago has the best in the world, students from other schools buy time to use it. and ofcourse premium is given to uni chicago students. so my main point was that why is it still cheaper than MIT when even if you are in MIT and you are working on a ground breaking research project you will need to spend some time in Chicago.

Straight from two different departments from MIT website:

Geophysics
Financing your Graduate Education

Any student admitted to an EAPS doctoral program can expect to receive financial support that includes a stipend, full tuition, and health insurance. Continuation of support is based on the student making adequate progress toward the degree. Applicants are encouraged to apply for independent fellowships. EAPS will supplement fellowships that fall below our minimum level of support. Learn more.

Mathematics
Financial Support

Financial support is guaranteed for four years to students making satisfactory progress. Students receive full tuition, a stipend, and individual health coverage. Support is in the form of fellowships, teaching assistantships and research assistantships. Teaching assistants either teach recitation sections or grade papers for more advanced courses. Both jobs are paid at the same rate, and both require about 12 hours per week.

In academic year 2009-10 stipends for assistantships are $2408 per month for nine months (Sept 1--May 31) and include individual health coverage for 12 months. Some additional financial support is available during the summer. See summer support.

Students are encouraged to seek outside support, which reduces teaching and/or grading duties. Outside support sometimes exceeds the internal support level. If it does not, then it is supplemented up to the full internal support level.

You dont pay for a PhD in science at MIT period. So your analogy is difficult to apply. I understand what you are trying to say, but using a PhD totally defeats your meaning . Like a school pays you to do a PhD while you pay a school to do your mba.

However, you should also know that schools in the northeast automatically charge higher for everything that you can get in the midwest or south. Every private school in the north east has the same cost harvard is the same price as a lot of podunk private schools. So you are right in pointing out that the pricing of education not just in business schools but in the whole of the US is very arbitary and weird.

devilmaycy:

However, you should also know that schools in the northeast automatically charge higher for everything that you can get in the midwest or south. Every private school in the north east has the same cost harvard is the same price as a lot of podunk private schools. So you are right in pointing out that the pricing of education not just in business schools but in the whole of the US is very arbitary and weird.

i find the pricing across the schools in the US really confusing.

devilmaycy:

You dont pay for a PhD in science at MIT period. So your analogy is difficult to apply. I understand what you are trying to say, but using a PhD totally defeats your meaning . Like a school pays you to do a PhD while you pay a school to do your mba.

i agree i might have used a wrong analogy at Phd level , comparing their Msc would probably have supported this better.
But u see my point right. the course in Chicago should be more regarded than MIT because of the underlying facilities

Yes but you wouldn't learn that much in an MBA. MBA is very very over-rated . It is very very easy even easier than an undergraduate degree.
If it was a Msc Finance them u might probably learn something from the master himself. if you talk about Phd then i accept because u will be robbing minds with these legends constantly

You are not correct on this. The MBA students get more attention than the MS Finance guys. They are built to use their quatitative knowledge to make business decision

lets take Black-Scholes model or the Markowitz theory for example. And while it was ground breaking in the 60's and 70's there has been a lot of revisions to these model because of its so many limiting assumptions . and if you probably enrol for a Phd finance today and do reaserch on these theories you will probably come up with something different. for instance (sorry to bore u with this . . .) Black-Scholes is based on partial differencial equation but there is a lot of research going on in the use of other methods like Jump diffusion (Merton model) or Non probabilistic models

The Black Scholes and Markowitz were what held sway in their time. Just like students under Enrico Fermi and Milikan of the famous oil drop experiment. This is The equivalent of being a student directly under the tutelage of Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein, Some of their theories have been modified ever since but it doesnt take anything away from them

Silvio Berlusconi, Otedola, Dangote Why not Jesus Gill, IBB or King Fahd

dayokanu:

You are not correct on this. The MBA students get more attention than the MS Finance guys. They are built to use their quatitative knowledge to make business decision

They get more attention because they need more spoon feeding and also they have paid through their nose for the course

The way i see MBA vs Msc Finance is this

MBA - a mile wide and an inch deep

Msc Finance- an inch wide and a mile deep

SEFAGO:

^yeah i knw but i avoided mentioning them because most people who dont live in the US are clueless about it. Also they rank schools according to tthe gloss and the shine: how much they buttress your CV. I know their ranking methodology and this is what it boils down to

What gave you the impression that most Non-US residents are "clueless" about it.I left Nigeria over 10 years ago when accessibility to the Internet was quite negligible and a lot of us knew about the website.It just bothers me a lot when some Nigerians spend a few months/years abroad and start having some imaginary supreriority complex.

My take on the discussion is this:

Are MBAs overrated these days----Definite Yes, A lot of folks see it a means to an end rather than the intensive,rigorous and advantageous course its meant to be,hence we have millions of schools shelling out the degree like water e.g Lasu ojo campus,Lasu maryland campus all give out MBAs.etc

Is it financially worthwhile investing in an MBA at Harvard /Ivy league Institution or any reputable school like London business school/Hec paris etc, Absolutely without any doubt,the reason is clear and indisputable.Despite the global economic climate, 95% of their graduates still get high earning jobs, Nuff said!!!

What gave you the impression that most Non-US residents are "clueless" about it.I left Nigeria over 10 years ago when accessibility to the Internet was quite negligible and a lot of us knew about the website.It just bothers me a lot when some Nigerians spend a few months/years abroad and start having some imaginary supreriority complex.

Simply because most nigerians school in the UK/Nigerian. we are more knowledgeable about that system, and i doubt any American can even freely debate with nigerians about their school system or the british university system. We are a commonwealth country which means that very few of people actually come to school in the US. So if i pull out the US news ranking, it wouldn't be surprising if most people haven't heard of half the schools there that are supposed to be top schools Only people who have any interest in attending schools in the US would be interested in the US News rankings. It isn't really about superiority class

Also why should people who school in nigeria- the large majority at nairaland-be interested in US News a ranking of top american universities. They are more interested in using lay schools that they hear all the time like the H, Y, S, C, M e.t.c

I dont think the MBA is overrated one bit if gotten from an Ivy league school.

The cost of 100k gives you value for money.

I remember in the early 80's when our parents were having to pay 1,000 Naira for private school in Nigeria that was they way people said they were overrated Now where are the Agege Community Graduates that didnt want to pay 1,000 for fees saying its overrated.

Compare the quality of student from ISI to Onireke Gramar school or Chrisland, Grange and Atlantic Hall to Ikeja High school, Shasha community and Mafoluku Gramar school

Its for a reason why most US presidents have Ivy league education, Its for a reason that most executives have Ivy league education, Its the same reason that most Nobel Laureates have Ivy league education.

Give me an Ivy league education anyday where the best of the best meet and future world leaders are groomed
Nothing like it!!!!!!!!! If only GMAT could be written in Yoruba

dayokanu:

Silvio Berlusconi, Otedola, Dangote Why not Jesus Gill, IBB or King Fahd

And you think your Masters of the universe are any better?

Tell me what makes D,ick Fuld better than Dangote?

dayokanu:

I dont think the MBA is overrated one bit if gotten from an Ivy league school.

The cost of 100k gives you value for money.

I remember in the early 80's when our parents were having to pay 1,000 Naira for private school in Nigeria that was they way people said they were overrated Now where are the Agege Community Graduates that didnt want to pay 1,000 for fees saying its overrated.

Compare the quality of student from ISI to Onireke Gramar school or Chrisland, Grange and Atlantic Hall to Ikeja High school, Shasha community and Mafoluku Gramar school

Its for a reason why most US presidents have Ivy league education, Its for a reason that most executives have Ivy league education, Its the same reason that most Nobel Laureates have Ivy league education.

Give me an Ivy league education anyday where the best of the best meet and future world leaders are groomed
Nothing like it!!!!!!!!! If only GMAT could be written in Yoruba

Although I do agree with your argument of Ivy league education but I must state that I am yet to see any past student of Chrisland and Atlantic hall in top jobs or careers in my life till date.

Most I know ended up wayward doing gangsters, americano-wannabees or are in mediocre jobs.

The future leaders I see are usually from KC, QC, ISI/L, Commands, Navys, Air Forces, Unitys and the FGCs which are not private schools.

So, as far as I am concerned, the Chrisland and Atlantic parents just wasted their money (and it was a lot of it).

Sagamite,

How long have those schools been in existence? KC, QC, FGC were the elite schools of those days and they were not free either. In my days we all write Federal Common Entrace to go to all these schools.
Graduates of KC, QC,ISI are in their seventies, Sixties while Chrisland and co are still new.
With the drop in standard of Unity Schools and religious crises all over, most parents would only send their children to Grange and A Hall

KC, QC, FGC, ISI = Havard Yale and Stanford

Mafoluku Gramar School, Agege High School and Shasha Community = Texas Southern University, Panhandle and East West Missouri Uniersity

This debate has degenerated

dayokanu:

Sagamite,

How long have those schools been in existence? KC, QC, FGC were the elite schools of those days and they were not free either. In my days we all write Federal Common Entrace to go to all these schools.
Graduates of KC, QC,ISI are in their seventies, Sixties while Chrisland and co are still new.
With the drop in standard of Unity Schools and religious crises all over, most parents would only send their children to Grange and A Hall

KC, QC, FGC, ISI = Havard Yale and Stanford

Mafoluku Gramar School, Agege High School and Shasha Community = Texas Southern University, Panhandle and East West Missouri Uniersity

Good skools dey naija sha. If only. . . . . . . . . . .

dayokanu:

Sagamite,

How long have those schools been in existence? KC, QC, FGC were the elite schools of those days and they were not free either. In my days we all write Federal Common Entrace to go to all these schools.
Graduates of KC, QC,ISI are in their seventies, Sixties while Chrisland and co are still new.
With the drop in standard of Unity Schools and religious crises all over, most parents would only send their children to Grange and A Hall

KC, QC, FGC, ISI = Havard Yale and Stanford

Mafoluku Gramar School, Agege High School and Shasha Community = Texas Southern University, Panhandle and East West Missouri Uniersity

Agreed that KC etc = Harvard etc

But I must highlight that even though these schools (KC and co) had been in existence for years, the standard had deteriorated massively by the late 80s and throughout the 90s. The Christland and likes sprung up to fill the quality gap and charged crazy sums in those days.

And despite paying all those sums, I still can't see the results. Lest we forget, Christland, A Hall and Adesoye College (Kwara) have been in existense for over 20 years, I am not hearing of any of their alumnis burning up the tracks in Harvard, Cambridge, Oxford, Mckinsey or Goldman Sachs.

So because they spent money does not mean they will get result. Ivy League for uni, in my opinion, and moderately reasonable, non-pompous, feet-on-the-ground for high schools for my wards.

This world get as e bi o. Ivy university, elite secondary schools now we have elite private Nursery schools just like in the documentary Sagamite posted earlier. Wetin poor man go do 

There might be a case for an Ivy Uni but elite secondary or primary is just absolutely ridiculous

candylips:

This world get as e bi o. Ivy university, elite secondary schools now we have elite private Nursery schools just like in the documentary Sagamite posted earlier. Wetin poor man go do 

There might be a case for an Ivy Uni but elite secondary or primary is just absolutely ridiculous

That is where governments need to step in and cut out all the thrash to give the less privilege a chance and hope.

You need Ivy League/Redbrick universities to separate the wheat from the chaff, so that should be left as is although selection into them should be closely monitored that it is based on talent.

Governments need to set up quality primary (year 4-6) and secondary schools where the less privilege only can attend. These schools should have as much facilities as the best private schools. Highest qouta in the secondary schools should go to exceptionally talented poor kids and a little quota for middle class kids, none for rich kids. The primary school should be for poor kids only.

Somewhere like Nigeria (if it functioned well and is not corrupted) should have about 18 of such schools with a tough and efficient Czar overseeing all the schools to ensure the quality is the highest of any schools (public or private) in the country. Also the government should set a policy where if a private school charges above a certain amount in fees, then 10% of their students should be from families that cannot afford it and the tuition for them should be free.

By these approaches you would set the track for some poor kids to compete and cross the class lines.

The rich will always have an advantage but we should be able to reduce the span of the advantage.

you are right. The Federal Government Colleges used to be the best schools in Nigeria . What happened to them

UI and OAU also used to be very ranked among the worlds best. nowadays some of their Grads can't even speak correct English

candylips:

you are right. The Federal Government Colleges used to be the best schools in Nigeria . What happened to them

Dictator Abasha!!!

The FGCs was the schools where you had rich, middle class and poor kids competing on a level playing field. It is just a brilliant concept.

Sagamite:

Dictator Abasha!!!

The FGCs was the schools where you had rich, middle class and poor kids competing on a level playing field. It is just a brilliant concept.

They stilll do though. The best results are from this same FGC schools year in year out.

Honestly, the concept I am talking about is in the mould of (but modified to accept only the less privileged) Suleja Academy of those days (which was a failure).

Any student admitted to the Academies that is misbehaving and not focused should be expelled outright or demoted to the FGCs (dependent on the scale of his/her crime).

It should be a place of excellence where the exceptional less privilege's brain can be harnessed.

Something like that may not work in Nigeria. They will introduce quota system join come scatter the whole thing. Same thing is currently happening for admisions into the FGC schools.

you will see a Kid from Delta blasting the common entrance but the cut -off mark of his state might be too high compared to a kid from Sokoto. This may be one of the reasons why the quality of these schools has deterioted in the last few decades

Sagamite,

Its Idealistic I must say. quality cost money. Even in the US you cant compare schools in the hood to those catholic private schools which charge a lot.

If you want quality you must pay, Most of the time mediocrity is cheap.

Just like in anything Gucci is expensive while the aba made "Reebox" is cheap

Buying C ronaldo is expensive while Opabunmi would be cheap.

Quality education is expensivebut its a sacrifice for the future.

Surely a government can afford 18 quality schools.

I am not talking about 18,000 or so public schools, just 18 schools to cater for about 4500 students (JS1 - SS3), not the total 60m or more that might be in school in Nigeria.

I don't think cost would be the main challenge, it would be nepotism.

Davidf
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/08/0821_most_successful_immigrants/index.htm

Where is my mentor Dr Mo Ibrahim from Sudan or the founder of BEBE?  I said this about Transcorp that Nigerians do not know how to run a successful corporation. Eg. During GSM licensing, Econnet, founded by Strive Massiyiwa, a Zimbabwean won one of the bids and he was kicked out by his Nigerian allies and the company has changed names many times. It was about to be edged out by other competitors before it was rescued by Celtel, founded by Mo Ibrahim, a Sudanese by birth. Our so called business people thrive in an environment where there is favouritism or monopoly. Could you imagine all the money that was spent on Liberia and Sierra Leon by Nigeria and not many Nigerian companies benefited from those contracts because we only know how to run one-man enterprise.

i wont waste ma 100k dollars cos of one formal edu at this stage of ma lif

I think Mba these days are not worth it  or too risky

Especially with all the money invested in school, When I ever i see Mba i just think to my self too much of a risk
In recent times people who have gotten their Mbas are the ones losing jobs when private companies go Bad.

I plan on getting my Mba with a JD just to be safe

or llm and masters in economics

Life is a risk , I did not get my MBA from a top 50 school, cos my papa no fit afford am , but I did get an MBA , and got I into a Leadership program with my current company ( Fortune 500, name shall remain unmentioned) after Grad . Guess what when I graduated from the program I did not have a position, my company laid of 25K people but still held on to me untill i found one (likewise other program grads) . While I thank Papa God , cos he put me in the right place at the right time, i still know that it is the weight of my MBA that kept me in the company.

The choice of an MBA program should be based on ROI , Know what you can afford , Know what you want to concentrate in, and look for the best schools within your price range, US News and World puts out rankings on business schools, and provides information on after graduation placement  percentages , starting salaries , and sign on bonuses.

If you can't afford an ivy league (or Top 50) and be guaranteed the 120K and up salary bracket you can pay less for a school that is a regional leader and still rest comfortably in the 90K to 110K bracket

i wont waste ma 100k dollars cos of one formal edu at this stage of ma lif 

Maybe a 100K  MBA is not for you then. From what I have seen so far you get a MBA for one of two reasons

1) You need a change in career or you want to take a big step forward in your current career ( requires changing jobs ,  companies)

2) You are not interested in an immediate career change only want to take advantage of the management skills a MBA will provide; and you feel it will be good to have as you grow your career, you probably already have significant experience (years) in your chosen field

If you fall into the latter group you should not be spending a lot of money getting a MBA,  a good accredited business school should be your only requirement

You should not have to break the bank in trying to attend a business school.Either in Nigeria or abroad.

It is important to note that just like any other business on the face of this planet, the intention of the business is to make money.Yes! Business schools are businesses!

The bottom line is that the schools just want your money, and they get it from you because they make you feel your are part of something greater than your self. Imagine being a Master of Business administration and having to beg for a job. You can't start your own business after spending over $100k. So has the person really Mastered Business Administration.  

I understand there are various benefits of earning an MBA from an Ivy league school. You should understand that the same school that a middle class American or Nigerian will be forced to get a loan for, might be free if the student is on scholarhip, if it's employer sponsored, or paid for by parents from wealthy family or even a successful person. So why assume that everyone needs to get a loan.

So financing an MBA with borrowed funds from the bank is just part of the pile of debt that developed nations saddle their populace with.
So why not give me a loan for $100,000 and watch me flip it like pan cake. Nooo, instead the system believes that it is better to give me a loan in exchange for an education. In return they kill me with intrest.

An MBA is great don't get me wrong, but don't go out of your way to accure more debt in the process, except if you plan on running out of the country  and not repay you loans. Assume a humble posture of a learner and you will realize that knowledge is all around us and usually free.

I am currently an MBA student in a top twenty five U.S University.  The advantages of an MBA outside Nigeria are numerous, obviously one has to be very selective in choosing which school to attend.  Not all MBA degrees are the same.  Obviously the elite schools remain unchallenged with providing exceptional opportunities to their graduates.

An MBA is a wise investment if you can get your company to support you by paying for it.  I work for a Fortune 500 firm here in NY, and they provide substantial financing for my MBA degree; which I am doing part time.  The ability to network with your classmates and the intellectual conversation that goes on, broadens your horizon.

Although it is quite expensive, it is worth every penny.  Just this week I was approached by one of our Senior Executives to find out about going to Nigeria on behalf of the company at a leadership meeting.  One of my colleagues a Nigerian is the CFO for the Canadian Region.  He also has an MBA.

An MBA puts you at the table with the major players in any organization.  Especially outside Nigeria, there are very few minority students in MBA programs here in the U.S.  

I would highly recommend it to anyone I personally know.

Pittbaby:

Maybe a 100K MBA is not for you then. From what I have seen so far you get a MBA for one of two reasons

1) You need a change in career or you want to take a big step forward in your current career ( requires changing jobs , companies)

2) You are not interested in an immediate career change only want to take advantage of the management skills a MBA will provide; and you feel it will be good to have as you grow your career, you probably already have significant experience (years) in your chosen field

If you fall into the latter group you should not be spending a lot of money getting a MBA, a good accredited business school should be your only requirement

yeah ure spot on!!
will finish my CFA soon and ive got 4 years experience in Investment banking/Corporate finance
dont wanna change ma career nor will like to take any course in MGT to the extent of me dashin them 100k

ill do distace learning or buy mgt books if the need arises

Very interesting discussants:
Sagamite & Co are anti-Ivy League MBA due to costs, etc. While dayokanu & co are bleeding MBA.

While I believe some MBAs are over-priced (up Sagamite!), with an effective personal plan behind it, a top MBA will pay off (way to go dayokanu!). Remember, no good education is ever lost; at some point, it will serve as a differentiator.

But $100K MBA is no longer a meal ticket; you need a total package of prestine experience, street smarts, drive, etc, to reap exceptional rewards.

LaNiger:

I am currently an MBA student in a top twenty five U.S University.  The advantages of an MBA outside Nigeria are numerous, obviously one has to be very selective in choosing which school to attend.  Not all MBA degrees are the same.  Obviously the elite schools remained unchallenged with providing exceptional opportunities to their graduates.

An MBA is a wise investment if you can get your company to support you in paying for it.  I work for a Fortune 500 firm here in NY, and the provide substantial financing for my MBA degree; which I am doing part time.  The ability to network with your classmates and the intellectual conversation that goes on, broadens your horizon.

Although it is quite expensive, it is worth every penny.  Just this week I was approached by one of our Senior Executives to find out about going to Nigeria on behalf of the company at a leadership meeting.  One of my colleagues a Nigerian is the CFO for the Canadian Region.  He also has an MBA.

An MBA puts you at the table with the major players in any organization.  Especially outside Nigeria, there are very few minority students in MBA programs here in the U.S.  

I would highly recommend it to anyone I personally know.

It depends.  .   .   .
my kind of job makes me sit with CFOs, CEOs and top management staff when making strategic decisions
so u see, i dont the need the MBA to network

i'll think of MBA if i win euro-lottery tho
100k?   i no do o

canuck:

Very interesting discussants:
Sagamite & Co are anti-Ivy League MBA due to costs, etc. While dayokanu & co are bleeding MBA.

While I believe some MBAs are over-priced (up Sagamite!), with an effective personal plan behind it, a top MBA will pay off (way to go dayokanu!). Remember, no good education is ever lost; at some point, it will serve as a differentiator.

But $100K MBA is no longer a meal ticket; you need a total package of prestine experience, street smarts, drive, etc, to reap exceptional rewards.

Mint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dayokanu:

Sagamite,

Its Idealistic I must say. quality cost money. Even in the US you cant compare schools in the hood to those catholic private schools which charge a lot.

If you want quality you must pay, Most of the time mediocrity is cheap.

Just like in anything Gucci is expensive while the aba made "Reebox" is cheap

Buying C ronaldo is expensive while Opabunmi would be cheap.

Quality education is expensivebut its a sacrifice for the future.

maybe the MBA is a pre requisite to attain greater heights "in the future" in the US but here in Las Gidi, no way!

How many of our icons in the industries in Nigeria attended those schools?
ex pwC na in u be, how many of ur Ogas went to that school?
did FI go to any of those schools?