davidif:

That is what i have been trying to tell them. Even Barack Obama took out loans to go to Columbia and Harvard just like a lottttttttttttttts of American students at those schools decide to. If Obama had decided to play it safe and not risk it or if he had the same Naija mentality that a lot of folks here have, i guarantee you that homeboy would not be in office right now. Nigerians need to learn that an excellent education is a business investment.

If you read through my post, you will see I never said you should not pay for quality.

My question is where is you limit? Would you pay $350K to Harvard for an MBA? At $350K it would still be quality.

Well, an MBA from an Ivy League school is definitely OK. But one can still opt for a different business degree from a good business school and still have an edge. For example, an M.Sc. in Management. `though cheaper, It is VERY similar to the MBA programme, though a bit more research intense. But I think it's better as it covers strategic management (business and corporate level) and management (operations mgt-TQM, 6 sigma,etc), financial resource mgt and entrepreneuship. But unlike the MBA it also covers HRM as I believe that business leaders ought to have this skill. Then again, I may be a bit bias as that's what I'm currently into   .

yeah you are biased compare the average starting salary of an MBA to a MSc and you will know the truth.

interesting thread!

definitely handy, as I'm set ( or still contemplating) to start an MBA August next year @ the London Business School. but coughing out £45,500 wont be easy but I definitely know it would be worth it, with my chosen career path in mind.

Man if it is LBS (london business school) take it.

A top rated MBA nothing like it. Nothing like working with great minds

I met with some guys in Kellogs last October at a Seminar. I went with one of my Profs (Iranian-American) who had an Engineering degree from Berkerly and his PhD from MIT
The Prof who presented was a Pakistani from Sloan Business School networking with some guys from Kellogs and Uchicago to develop a model that would predict comodity prices using inventory,
It was very vague to me but when we got to finite difference methods MENNN I know say Khaki no be leather. within weeks UBS, JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley were ready to finance the research

I have years working experience at a Top 4 consulting firm. Still Nothing like a  top rated MBA. Its worth borrowing for I tell you. 
When you get to the Gleacher center and Hyde Park classes of Booth Business School where Scholes, Markowitz, Milikan and Enrico Fermi ruled or you were in the class Lectured by Barack Obama MENN your Head go wan blow

Have you considered the great minds that you would meet in an Ivy league MBA? The decision makers of tomorrow
Forget about the profs think about your classmates these are the brightest students all over the world. They have an average of 720 in their GMAT. A congregation of champions. In your class you would meet the CFO and managers at big corporations, Guys with 10years experience at Hedge funds and Private Equity, Top government and brilliant personalities even future presidents of the US and other western countries
Thats enough to kill for.

I have a friend Burak he had a perfect SAT 1600, He had a GMAT score of 790 . These are the kind of guys you rub minds with

I would attach his GMAT score here for a few hours for you to know say no be small thing. I dont need to tell you where this guy does right now but men with these kind of guys around you, You can never go wrong

For me if its 200k, Lets go there!!!!!!

interesting thread.
i doubt we will come to an agreement on this topic.
it boils down to your personal circumstances and desired career path.
make no mistake, whichever way you desire to go in future, you can make it with or without an MBA.
the fact is that it opens some (not all) doors that would have remained closed.
boys CVs are bulging these days, an MBA from a top business school will go some (not all the way) way in setting you apart.
one advice, if you must go to a top business school, try and have some years of concrete work experience behind you, it would add value to your learning.
as sweet as these names are to roll off, entry competition tight o! very, very tight!!
if you are truly exceptional (work experience in a 5 star firm, top, top GMAT and a 1st class or 2'' 1, they would offer you a scholarship that would cover up to 30% of the fees (some top schools do, i can't vouch for all)).

this thread is seemingly US-centric, for a more global and rigourous rating, check this link; http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/global-mba-rankings
whatever you do, if it is not a Harvard executive MBA or the executive program in Manchester, keep away from distance MBA programs. ain't worth it.

one more thing, most stories from business schools are exaggerated.
it is a lifetime expereince but it is not the best thing after sliced bread.
An MBA makes you rounded in the theory of Management and opens some doors but it does not make you an expert in any field.
Most of those 5 star profs they advertise for the top schools will not be at your beck and call.
maybe teach you an elective or a guest lecturer for a topic or two.
It is most of the budding stars that will teach you the cores and have their doors open for you all day.
The networking opportunity is good anyway.
if you attend a global school, you contacts will be global and remember the program is as much academics as social.
join clubs, attend cohort organised parties and remember if you are eyeing the McKinseys, Bain, BCG, ATKearney and EY, you must have the very best grades.Consideringthat the top schools attract the best brains, that is a very tough one (without chips or sorting )

mbulela:

interesting thread.
i doubt we will come to an agreement on this topic.
it boils down to your personal circumstances and desired career path.
make no mistake, whichever way you desire to go in future, you can make it with or without an MBA.
the fact is that it opens some (not all) doors that would have remained closed.

Marvelous points, mate.

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Anyone planning set up a biz in Nigeria does not need a Harvard MBA .

He is better off in the Lagos Business School where he will mix with power brokers in the Nigerian Economy and make valuable contact.

Most very successful biz men are street smart. no MBA can ever teach you that.

As a budding enterprenuer with $100k in the bank u wouldn't even think of MBA not to talk of Harvard.

I am not against doing a MBA neither am i against going to an Ivy school. I just think the cost of these Ivy schools are a rip-off and all their sales pitch about the quality of teachers, networking etc doesn't hold water

candylips:

Anyone planning set up a biz in Nigeria does not need a Harvard MBA .

He is better off in the Lagos Business School where he will mix with power brokers in the Nigerian Economy and make valuable contact.

Most very successful biz men are street smart. no MBA can ever teach you that.

As a budding enterprenuer with $100k in the bank u wouldn't even think of MBA not to talk of Harvard.

I am not against doing a MBA neither am i against going to an Ivy school. I just think the cost of these Ivy schools are a rip-off and all their sales pitch about the quality of teachers, networking etc doesn't hold water

nuff said

Anyone planning set up a biz in Nigeria does not need a Harvard MBA .

He is better off in the Lagos Business School where he will mix with power brokers in the Nigerian Economy and make valuable contact.

Meaning anyone planning to be a local player and local champion doesnt need a MBA

Most very successful biz men are street smart. no MBA can ever teach you that.

As a budding enterprenuer with $100k in the bank u wouldn't even think of MBA not to talk of Harvard.

Is it a coincidence that the richest guys in the world have an Ivy league connection at sometime in their life?

I am not against doing a MBA neither am i against going to an Ivy school. I just think the cost of these Ivy schools are a rip-off and all their sales pitch about the quality of teachers, networking etc doesn't hold water

The quality of their products speak for them more than their teachers. They produce Presidents CEO's and extremely succesful bizmen.
Reeling out the name of succesful students from any Ivy league is a much bigger advertisement than any quality prof talk.

You are in class with the best minds from India, China, US and Europe in the same class sharing ideas and you say that is overrated? The top executives in Fortune 500 sit with you in the same class and you think its overrated?

It ll depends on your motivation and what you want to be, I know several Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba rich men who cant even write their names

If your aim is to be a rich man, You can be that by selling groundnuts in sacks and beans. A lot of Hausa folks do these and are stinkingly rich, But if your aim is to excel and rub shoulders with the world policy makers then You cant but appreciate an Ivy league education

dayokanu:

Is it a coincidence that the richest guys in the world have an Ivy league connection at sometime in their life?

I would choose to disagree with you on this.

As I said, there is a benefit to attend Ivy League/Redbrick schools and I am a fervent advocate of this. But I still maintain that those that have done this at undergrad do not really need that much to rush to do MBA except they are in the categories I listed on the first page of this thread.

As I said earlier, there is a difference between rich and wealthy. Most MBA people are rich, those that are wealthy are normally those that take the business startup part rather than spend $100K on an MBA.

Here is a list of the richest people on Earth, have a look yourself. The most frequent word in their profiles is "founder".

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/Rank_1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_billionaires

One of the common trends you see in these people is that a large number even dropped-out from school and couldn't be bothered to finish. One would wonder why they got into unis (most were in Ivy Leagues) and wouldn't even struggle and hustle to finish, we can only speculate why.

These are true entreprenuers with very low "employee mentality", they don't think advanced education taught by some academic superstar necessarily is required to make them. These are the guys the Harvard MBA are dreaming to work for to make them rich.

You would also notice that only negligible amount out of them even have an MBA. They don't sit down thinking they have to rub shoulders with some guy that developed the Scholes model to be successful and I doubt any of them would pay $100K for the privilege. They would rather diversify their portfolio. Most of the ones that have a MBA (very small subset of wealthy people) are those that are from wealthy families and probably got it to justify to all doubters why they can run the family business.

I see more benefit in going for an MBA to get an opportunity to mix with these rich heirs and hieresses (I go marry one  ) rather than be dancing that Krugman is a lecturer in my business school and came to my class one day. All that one na wayo for $100K.

@ Sagamite
I must confess i respect your position on this topic, your arguments are all brilliantly outlined.
If young African minds begin to gear their thoughts on being an enterpreneur rather than being a better or more qualified employees, then Africa will definately rise from its current level of mediocrity.
Imagine spending close to $200k on MBA, at the end of the day, you end up as an individual working with a corporation and yet with the risk of getting your ass fired at any moment.

@ Sagamite
I will be arriving in London {University of Reading} for my masters in few days time, wouldnt mind meeting you one on one

violent:

@ Sagamite
I will be arriving in London {University of Reading} for my masters in few days time, wouldnt mind meeting you one on one

Thanks. Let me know when you are around.

I must also say that I do respect the other guys' argument because not everyone would have entrepreneurial skills or even the liver, such people (if not fortunate enough to be at the right place or position now) might need the MBA to boost their career. But if you are going to do the MBA, give it a deep thought to see if you really need it (i.e. what is your stage and direction).

If you went to LSE to study Economics, got a job with Monitor Group consultancy after graduation, after 2 years you move to HSBC working in Corporate Development. You have been in this role for another 3 years and you are earning good money for someone that only has 5 years experience and doing high level, non-monotonous work. I would wonder why the hell are you going to say you are going to spend $100K on an MBA. Your career path seems good and you are doing things that will get you to the top, most MBAs would be dreaming of being offered something similar to your role after graduation anyway (even though they might get a 10-15% markup in salary but the cost, stress and rigorousness of the MBA still begs whether it is worth it). You can easily do a CIMA and first level CFA to get your markup that would match theirs.

If on the other hand you attended a decent university like Aston to study chemistry, got a in the Civil Service doing Pensions Management and after 5 years your salary is moderate and you feel you can not get the top jobs elsewhere because all this Oxbridge, Imperial, LSE, Bristol graduates always apply and beat you to it because they have the gloss. You also really want to do something more analytical like consulting or M&A and not be stuck in your monotonous and routine line of work and at the same time also double your salary, then I will say MBA all the way.

My points here are that an Ivy league education is worth every penny BSc, MSc or MBA

An Engineering degree in Stanford, CALTECH, MIT or Berkeley
An MBA Finance in Columbia, Chicago, Stern or Wharton
A Management degree from Harvard, Yale etc
Medical school John Hopkins (Though I dont know much about this field)

I don't think there's a right/wrong answer with these things. Not everyone has what it takes to be a successful entrepreneur. Very few have the innovative mindset or cunning to become billionaire business founders. Not everyone is cut out for it - naturally.

Therefore, a good MBA offers a safe and assured route to a very comfortable existence, at the very least. And for those with entrepreneural ambitions, avenues for building valuable social networks. There lies the real value.

Basically, an MBA will not make you a billionaire, but buy gaining one, you can learn important lessons on how to avoid those mistakes that have nipped the ambitions of too many entrepreneurs.

I've been on a few executive training courses and soon attending one at HBS. I'm taking all these courses to add to enrich me further and help me get the job I aspire to in Nigeria early next year. My plan is to spend a year developing my business idea while employed in Nigeria (essentially testing my target market and my assumptions for about one year) before setting up. A large part of my business plan has been driven by networks I buiild attending these executive course.



Overall, I'm convinced the cost of these programmes is nothing compared to the long term value derived.

As for me, MBA all the way and as for Ivy league, the better if not I still do it. Lest we forget full time MBA is completed between 18 and 24 months option, therefore there is no reason why one would not go for an MBA. As for people mentioning CFA and CPA, I believe those are just professional certifications and not a advanced degree which in my own opinion someone with a JD/MBA can still achieve this certifications and has more edge over those with this certifications. As for people looking in the short term, although it wouldn't pay off now, but in the next 10 years with your experience and other trainings, you will see that it pays off, In other words, it definitely pays off in the long run. I have seen people whom after their CPA and CFA certification, they went back to to get their MBA.

MBA gives boost you ahead and is a right path to leadership success, for instance look at corporate leadership be it from junior, mid-level, senior or executive, have an MBA because the MBA is an advanced leadership program and I will bet that most top U.S. company execs have MBA's from leading MBA schools in the country.

manny4life:

I will bet that most top U.S. company execs have MBA's from leading MBA schools in the country.

Honestly, this is fallacy as well.

A quick analysis of my bosses I have worked directly with that I know are on top pay in the firms, who has lots of seniority and/or responsibilities (CEO, COO, CAO, Director, Head of), from all companies I have worked for before, only 2 out of 8 had MBAs.

Here are the top 100 companies in the UK (FTSE 100):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTSE_100

Guess how many of the companies' CEO has MBA.

Just 17 out of 100. That is 17% of total. One of these is doing the MBA after being appointed the CEO, so I don't even know if that counts. And one is a heir, so one can only assume he did it to justify right to lead.

At least 40% have just a Bachelors degree.

Even the head of 3i, the private equity firm, does not have an MBA.

The only trends you would notice is that:

- most attended Redbrick universities and/or
- have an accountancy/finance certification and/or
- have worked in key roles within the business (Corporate Development, Sales & Marketing, Strategy, Corporate Planning, Finance etc) and/or
- they have a degree aligned to the industry they first reached the top at and remained faithful to a firm (the present or another) for decades

MBA was not the issue.

I think this just further backs up my point.

Dude you using wiki as a research aid, I'm sorry I can see how you are successfully backing up your point, moreover just for the record wiki is an untrusted biased site. Like I said which you highlighted in your response, I was referring to U.S. company execs and I will use a more trusted validated site; Forbes.com. I would also bet that your figures are way off but anyway I will give you that benefit of the doubt.

Good night dude I have to be at work tomorrow at 9am peace.

modification

modification

Marvin Bower broke with current industry practice by hiring recent graduates from the best business schools rather than among experienced managers

This shows the power of a top rated Ivy league MBA in finance and consulting.

Ivy league guys rule Wall Street no question about that.

If you have been in a class where everyone is exceptionally brilliant. You know what it means to get a 700 not to talk of a 750 in GMAT. these guys have well over 700 GMAT

If my employer is paying for it Hell Yeahhhhhhhhh!!

If not it totally depends on where I'm at and where I'm heading- wall street, City aint my goal

I'd rather pile up the real life working experience
Perhaps 6-8years working experience after Msc
I might just refresh my brains with new ways that's if I am not already running starting my own business

You'll notice the answers from students who are still doing the Bsc/B.A will be different from those already working

I have been following this thread for some days, and have finally decided to share my views as follows:

1. MBA is good, but it is not the magic wand that some of you here hold it up to be. Yeah, it could make recruiters give you a second look, but it doesn't translate into employment. Most MBA graduates are looking upto Wall Street, but the question is: How many graduates do these Ivy League schools produce per semester, and how many can Wall Street effectively take? You will notice a surfeit of supply, but shrinking demand.

2. A friend of mine that got his MBA from a top school told me something interesting: MBA is not necessarily a distinguishing factor. MBA is not a skill, it is more of common sense (gleaned over several years of business practice) and application of same. So should you get an MBA from an Ivy League school, and you are not wise/smart, don't be surprised if you don't make it. He who knows 'how' will always have a job; but he who knows 'why' will always be the boss. I 'd advise people with employee mentality to get a skill, then strive to know the 'whys' of the trade.

3. Putting all your eggs in one basket is an invitation to disaster. It's advisable that people pursue dual degrees. Carnegie Mellon University (a top tier school, by the way) is offering dual degrees in MBA and other disciplines. For those who can't afford the rigours of a dual degree, then why not pursue a different discipline from what you did at the undergraduate level? You would be surprised at the benefits. MBA was initially intended for those that do not have a background in Business practices, but I 'm surprised graduates of Accounting, Finance and even Business Administration have been running in droves to complete an MBA.

4. If you want to get an MBA, fine. But do be aware that some people have gotten this same MBA and are back in Nigeria with a humdrum job. Nothing like Hedge fund or Private Equity. I pray you get a better deal. But please do away with the mentality of landing a job with with any of the Wall Street firms as soon as you graduate. It's by GOD's grace. If you accept that, you 'd do more of praying than Ivy-league chasing.


Thank you

manny4life:

Dude you using wiki as a research aid, I'm sorry I can see how you are successfully backing up your point, moreover just for the record wiki is an untrusted biased site. Like I said which you highlighted in your response, I was referring to U.S. company execs and I will use a more trusted validated site; Forbes.com. I would also bet that your figures are way off but anyway I will give you that benefit of the doubt.

Good night dude I have to be at work tomorrow at 9am peace.

You must seriously be kidding me?

You must be joking?

So if wikipedia says the capital of Malaysia is Kuala Lumpur and that of Latvia is Riga, you would say because it is wiki the info can not be trusted.

You must seriously, seriously be kidding me!!!