pumping777:

Not for FSDH.

CRUSADER INSURANCE PLC
9 months, Sep. 2006 1,814.00 1,093.00

The fsdh report I get everyday and that I am looking at now has all insurance companies including Crusader with YR end of December except for OASIS, Sovereign, and Equity Ass that is Blank.

aktopgun:

sorry
if there half year was 593.2 and just suppose this is a 3rd Q result at 576M
THAT WOULD MEAN THEY ARE LOSING MONEY WOULDN'T IT

Not that I agree with this results yet but with insurance making a quarterly loss takes only being hit by a major claim. Other companies will consider something similar to be an "extraordinary item".

I'm not saying this is what happened to Crusader. Just highlighting the risky nature of the insurance business.

yodiyokun:

The fsdh report I get everyday and that I am looking at now has all insurance companies including Crusader with YR end of December except for OASIS, Sovereign, and Equity Ass that is Blank.

I get mine daily too so I guess we get different versions.

Is it possible that Crusader is trying to be funny and create confusion?

Please ooo, let those that have ears close to the ground find out the credibility of this result !

I AGREE PUMPING BUT IF THERE WERE SUCH A LARGE CLAIM WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE GOT WHIFF OF IT
or am i blowing smoke?

I will definitely hope so. Like I said, I don't even want to suggest that this happened to Crusader.

@yodiyokun

they would be daft to do that seeing that they've only recently gone on their first bull run for a while

it would be stock market suicide to do that but this confusion doesn't help them one bit i'll tell u that

the soner we can see if we can clear this confusion up the better for them cuz the fear of nairaland ivestors is the begininnig of wisdom  really

still searching but no joy yet fellas

NOTHING!!

anyone got better luck with digging?

@ Yodi and Pumping,
Crusader's YE is in December as are ALL Ins coys. It's a 9 month result and these brokers/websites need to be flogged for making such basic errors. Crusader DID lose money in the 3rd Q. As pumping said, likely due to a major claim. don't think they can pass N1B at the FY now. I'm out. Out of M Benefits as well.

Wetin person go come buy now?

Not in it for the long haul then easimoni?

i might join u

need to sleep on it though

i honestly can't believe it, after all the effort

as u said, wetin person go come buy now seeing the bulls are in town

u won't believe i was actually looking at someone like thomas wyatt today, a turn around since moorehouse took over

anyone got any figures on thomas wyatt (do people even know thay are quoted on the NSE? )

@eas

easimoni:

@ Yodi and Pumping,
Crusader's YE is in December as are ALL Ins coys. It's a 9 month result and these brokers/websites need to be flogged for making such basic errors. Crusader DID lose money in the 3rd Q. As pumping said, likely due to a major claim. don't think they can pass N1B at the FY now. I'm out. Out of M Benefits as well.

Wetin person go come buy now?

@easimoni, did you confirm this?

This is very serious, so Law Union goes to the top of the pack quickly.

I am out as well. This is not funny at all.

anyone got any ideas or do we just sit on cash till 1q 2008?

Welcome Back Gurus
I was beginning to fear that this thread would be a center for proverbs, adverts and other such charlatan tricks. Glad to see that we are back on track with number crunching and informed analysis.
Please all "wisemen" and soothsayers FIND ANOTHER THREAD.

aktopgun:

anyone got any ideas or do we just sit on cash till 1q 2008?

Yes for me. I have decided to make November my Fiscal Year End  

@PUMPING



my brother with this NSE, i don't blame you at all!!!

i've asked my broker to come up with a list of companies outside the banking sector with good fundamentals for fiscal year beginning 1Q 2008

pumping777:

Yes for me. I have decided to make November my Fiscal Year End

Amen. Or let's hope the Zenith offer will depress the market and create buying opportunities.

yodiyokun:

@easimoni, did you confirm this?

Don't need to. Unaudited results DON'T come out at FY. They must be audited. It's a 9 month result for sure. Besides Ins Coys all have Dec YEs.

aktopgun:

Not in it for the long haul then easimoni?

i might join u

need to sleep on it though

i honestly can't believe it, after all the effort

as u said, wetin person go come buy now seeing the bulls are in town

u won't believe i was actually looking at someone like thomas wyatt today, a turn around since moorehouse took over

I was in for the medium - long term, but this result is ridiculous.

I am in the blue right now, I will rather exit with 7% margin after commssions than staying there to take a loss.

Coupled with the fact that they are coming out for an offer, they merged with 4 other companies that we dont have information about and now this yeye result!.

Remember, they wont be able to release full year until its audited and thats in 4 months from now? I am sure there will be better opportunities during that time.

If I make 7% its better  than keeping my money in a canadian bank for 2% p.a.

This goes to support @Wanaj0's caution about these Insurance companies, One claim can wipe off all the profits they have made so far and you are left with nothing.

If there are other thoughts, please share them. But unless I get more information that what I have right now, I am selling if I can.

yodiyokun:

@eas
@easimoni, did you confirm this?

This is very serious, so Law Union goes to the top of the pack quickly.

I am out as well. This is not funny at all.

Actually the unlikely candidate with the best PE in insurance now is Custodian and Allied Insurance!!!

Followed closely by Unic and Lawunion but I don't know if anyone is still looking now.

Yes I noticed Custodian & Allied Insurance.

Their Result was quite good and forward pe is 16.6 ,

@ pumping is that right?

Unfortunately I do not have any of the shares.

@pumping

custodian and who?

i hope u see my point

i think for now fellas, we should leave those insurance coys to their own devices and see them again in '08, if they have their act together that is

what say u?

aktopgun:

anyone got any ideas or do we just sit on cash till 1q 2008?

Personally I am looking at Aiico's PO. I think it is a great bargain at 2.26, and if all goes well with the release of new funds and another quasi-capitalization in the wings, they might attract AIG back and things might start looking up. Crusader needs to explain themselves!!

_{My body is releasing dopamine, sleep dey catch me. abi na depression??}

@Rhemagirl

You can't expect your brokers to be more honest than your bankers etc.

Like most professionals that handle money in Nigeria they are more interested in making  money from you than for you.

My suggestion is to minimise your loss by:

1} have more than one broker

2}Always be time and price specific when you place your orders e.g. Sell UACN today 21 November at minimum of 60N or buy Costain tomorrow, Thursday 22 November, at maximum of 20 Naira.

If you need urgent action, you may say buy or sell today - this will give them a maximum of 5% either side of previous close.

3} Avoid letting your broker know what you gameplan is, unless you trust him or her.

The above seem very Machiavellian but it is based on experience in dealing with brokers and bankers in Nigeria.

Happy hunting.

Samstone4

anyone talked to their brokers yet about these absurd results from crusader plc?

what do they think will happen to the share price now, lke i don't know already
could they offer any explanations for it?

MUTUAL BENEFIT ASSURANCE PLC
UNAUDITED Q-3 RESULTS FOR THE PERIOD ENDED SEPTEMBER 30, 2007
PERIOD 2007 2006 ABSOLUTE CHANGE %CHANGE
GROSS PREMIUM (N'b) 1.71 1.44 0.27 19.0%
PBT (N'm) 728.55 886.10 -157.54 -17.8%
TAXATION (N'm) 72.86 18.98 53.88 283.9%
PAT (N'm) 655.70 867.12 -211.42 -24.4%
* Means Decrease & * Means Increase
Net Profit Margin 38.37% 60.38% -22.0% -36.5%

So does anyone feel like conjecturing on the loss posted by Mbenefits? Was this a huge claim also or some internal restructuring ( including owning a stake in Abbey)?

How do these companies expect their PO's to be successful with results like these?

Rob-roy:

Personally I am looking at Aiico's PO. I think it is a great bargain at 2.26, and if all goes well with the release of new funds and another quasi-capitalization in the wings, they might attract AIG back and things might start looking up. Crusader needs to explain themselves!!

_{My body is releasing dopamine, sleep dey catch me. abi na depression??}

There is an issue with POs simply because of the time element

aktopgun:

anyone talked to their brokers yet about these absurd results from crusader plc?

what do they think will happen to the share price now, lke i don't know already
could they offer any explanations for it?

most brokers don't know , all they only know how to buy and sell orders
@gurus
should we wait till xmas before buying into insurance or early next year seems they all gearing up for
PO

_{kai you guys are fast o, two days in a&e and the pages don go far!!!}

Rob-roy:

How do these companies expect their PO's to be successful with results like these?

I expect the POs to start in late 1Q or early 2Q. that way they can release 1Q results DURING the PO and show solid projections. Might be a good strategy to bail out now and get back in during 1Q. Besides, they'd be crazy to compete with Zenith.

I tire o.

with these results i wonder how successful those POs will be and if ther will be the usual bull run post TS for these volatile coys

i just wonder about them u know

fundamentally untested i think

wonder what the broker will say tomorrow when i tell him my decision to sell crusader after a 10% gain

In retrospect, these results have not been all that bad.

Mutual Benefits posted 450m half year profit, that should give a projected PAT of 675m in 9 months.
the results they posted are not far off from that.
The problem with the result is that the market had much higher expectations. Nigerian Securities and most other sites like that do not give justification for their projected PATs and many of them are suspect so i don't buy that column of their data.

Same scenario for Crusader, its 1st quarter PAT was 200m, then we had that superduper totally unexpected 600m PAT for half year that created even higher expectations but what they have given now, while dissappointing is not far off from from was initially expected before the distortion of the half year results

Again it boils down to investing objectives. If you've got christmas on your mind sell! Most likely you will will be in the blue.
If you bought at a safe price and you are thinking of a longer term, by all means hold, the results are not spectacular but neither are they disastrous. And the capitalization is gradually being defined properly. If insurance depresses again, i will be gladly waiting to buy.

@robroy
where have you been?
i am also waiting for that aiico po.

yodiyokun:

Yes I noticed Custodian & Allied Insurance.

Their Result was quite good and forward pe is 16.6 ,

@ pumping is that right?

Unfortunately I do not have any of the shares.

I  have 17.39 based on 4B outstanding shares and Q-3 PAT of 0.6B.

Hi Temmie10 and Easimoni
Hope i would be allowed to deviate a bit from the heat of the moment(crusader and Mbenefit) results
i would like to know what you both think of BETA GLASS and IKEJA HOTEL _{I HAVE ASKED THIS QUESTION LIKE 3 TIMES TODAY, I DEY BEG MAKE UNA ANSWER ME}