I actually found this amusing, now lemme go and worship my God.

spacyzuma:


You're smart. +1000
If you can, please find and read this amazing book: Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari. You'd learn a lot about humans and how we believe the things we do.

thanks

truthman2012:
This is a thread that shows the brotherhood of atheists, muslims and pagans because they are under the same Master.

What's your point exactly

i might be tempted to make an argument later but for now:

1. oga seun, u dont believe in Christianity so ure not trying to clarify something, na to bring dispute nd prolly boost traffic.

2. if you don't believe the story, fine. i don't have to prove my dream to u to mk u believe i dreamt it. u believe if u do and not try to dispute what happened without SUFFICIENT PROOF.

3. You didnt tell us what in your opinion happened to Christs body or do u bliv it was stolen from a tomb guarded by roman soldiers.

4. if you do believe, kindly give us your proof...cheers

Everyday my Faith grows in Jesus. I would just waste my time by laying arguing here. I would have believed all these when I was an Agnotic but now I have Jesus. All these things are proving what MATT 24 and IITIM 3 said. Bro Seun continue in it, continue to fulfil prophecies

ritababe:


he should leave Christian faith alone and stop mocking them because he has many followers he is taking advantage.

U sound like a Jihadist.

malvisguy212:
angel gabriel is a messenger of good news, He appear to many people and their is no mention of torture, according to the hadith, the angel press him 3 times, torture him. Well, I don't want to derail this thread, if you still insist, open a thread and mention me.

WTF? The angel kicked someone's ass?

Weah96:

U sound like a Jihadist.

what is jihad

Seun:
There are so many possible answers to that question:
1) People often risk their lives for lies. Someone who lied for a long time might rather risk death than allow the truth to destroy his life's work.
2) When death came, they may not have been given the option of telling the truth in exchange for their lives. They may have had no choice.
3) It is possible that a third party was responsible for the missing body and the disciples only saw Jesus in visions rather than bodily. Then over time the stories of their spiritual (imaginary) encounters with Jesus might have been spiced up dramatically by people trying to prove that Jesus rose physically from the dead. In this case, if they were in fact martyred, they would have chosen to die for what they thought was the truth but was only in their minds. In the time of Paul there were Christians called "gnostics" who believed that the resurrection was only spiritual.

The 3 answers you gave here has opposite views if you look at them from the opposite side eg
1. People risk their lives for the truth etc

I read a write up of yours on how things played out making you an atheist n I feel you

I've seen n heard things that made me wonder why didn't he intervene Yet HE knows all

I'm always stunned as to how Christians react when their faith is called into question, I'm glad you ve handled it well
Yet I wonder what you are searching for that is if you are searching at all

Seun:
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is probably the most important event in Christianity. Apostle Paul said, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith" (I Cor 15:14). He also said, "if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins". Did it really happen, though? Let's look at the evidence.

1. The Empty Tomb And The Men In White

Mark, which was the first gospel to be written, describes the incident in chapter 16:

Is it reasonable to accept this as evidence that Jesus rose from the dead? Let's see.

Jesus was the T B Joshua of his time. He came from a humble background, was loved by the masses because of his miracle ministry, and was hated by the religious establishment which didn't accept him as a true man of God and felt that his teachings were unscriptural.

Now lets imagine that T. B Joshua died, and then 3 days later the 3 women who were closest to him when he was alive in his ministry came to you with this story: That they went to T B Joshua's grave to pray and lay flowers, but when they got there, they saw that the grave had been opened, the body missing and a young guy in a white suit was sitting there. And the guy told them that T B Joshua had risen from the dead.

Would it be reasonable to believe that T B Joshua had risen from the dead on the basis of this testimony? Wouldn't you be suspicious that T B Joshua's body had been stolen by his top pastors to make it appear that he had risen? That the man in white was just an accomplice of the thieves? That maybe the women were hallucinating due to their grief, or simply lying to hype their hero and crush?

Luke's Gospel, written about 10 years later, describes the same incident thus:

Notice how the story has been altered to solve the issues with the first one, and spiced up?

Imagine if, in the hypothetical case of TB Joshua's alleged resurrection, the women who told you about his empty grave came back 10 years later to tell the same story. But this time, instead of a young man in a white suit who was sitting by the grave when they arrived, they claim that there was no one at T B joshua's grave initially and then suddenly, two men in glowing suits as bright as the sun (implying angels) appeared before them and gave them a scriptural lesson. Would those changes make the story more believable to you, or less so?

2. Appearing To His Closest Followers

According to Mark's Gospel,

In short, Jesus' closest followers claimed that he appeared to them at various times after his body went missing. Jesus closest followers had everything to lose by his death, and everything to gain by getting people to believe the resurrection story. They had sold all their posessions and left their families and professions to join Jesus' ministry. With his death, that ministry was finished, but the ressurection story brought it back to life. Knowing about this serious conflict of interest, it reasonable to accept their testimony as evidence that the resurrection actually happened?

If TB Joshua died and the top pastors in his church said he appeared to them, would you believe it for one moment?

3. His Appearance To 500 Believers

According to 1 Corinthians 15:6,

This would seem like the least weak evidence for the resurrection, due to the sheer number of potential witnesses, until you start to wonder why none of the Gospels mentioned it. Not even imaginative Luke of the robes as white as lightening. Why would all the Gospel writers have choosen to leave out what would have been their strongest evidence? 500 witnesses! Because it didn't happen? Because it was too early to tell such a big lie and get away with it? I don't know.

And even if we want to at issume that it happened, we must not forget that it would be quite easy for any illusionist to stage the appearance of Jesus to people who strongly want to believe that he is still alive. Benny Hinn tells a story about Jesus appearing during one of his crusades, and people believe it.

Conclusion:
The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is a bunch of testimonies attributed to people who had every reason to lie during a period when people were far more superstitious and gullible than we are today because they didn't have science. It's not sufficient to convince an objective modern person that a 3 day old corpse whose brain and heart would have decayed considerably actually came back to life, held meetings in person with various people, and then ascended into outer space. Or ... What do you think?

It is better to believe there is God, Jesus Christ resurrected, and there's some sort of life after death and later discover after death that none actually existed, then I have nothing to lose. But for me to deny His existence and resurrection and discovered after that the Bible is Real, then I have everything to lose.

I was raised and brought up in an African home, I am 100% sure there's evil or let me say demon, then there should be Good or God. For every action, there is equal and opposite reaction.

And Mr. Osewa. You can't apply Logic to religion matter. That's why it's called FAITH(Assurance of things hoped for, and Evidence of things not seen)... It is

Is it bad to be of good moral, love my neighbour as myself, and love God with all my heart. It pays to pay my 10 percent tithe to the Church even though I know most of the pastors are using it to enrich their pockets, it is between them and God and it is my Money anyway. It is good to give to the poor, and needy.

You acknowledged Mark wrote first, then Luke. But you should have pointed out that both weren't at the grave, weren't numbered among the twelve and most likely wrote from stories orally transmitted.

The gospels have accounts of this. You carefully avoided the aspects of the story touching the chief priests and all:- The compeling reasons they advanced for securing the grave, the embarrassing situation of an empty grave they faced even with NEUTRAL, non-followers-of-Jesus security personnel, and the testimony of the soldiers.
How about the transformation of the followers from scared scampering fellows to bold men who didn't renounce their faith even in the face of different circumstances of death.
May God open your mind's eye, in Jesus' Name.

Seun please think on point 3 ...

Harvard13:
i might be tempted to make an argument later but for now:

1. oga seun, u dont believe in Christianity so ure not trying to clarify something, na to bring dispute nd prolly boost traffic.

2. if you don't believe the story, fine. i don't have to prove my dream to u to mk u believe i dreamt it. u believe if u do and not try to dispute what happened without SUFFICIENT PROOF.

3. You didnt tell us what in your opinion happened to Christs body or do u bliv it was stolen from a tomb guarded by roman soldiers.

4. if you do believe, kindly give us your proof...cheers

That you have the Holy Spirit in you is a clear evidence that Jesus christ resurected. Ephesians 1:13..

Argue from today till tomorrow, the fact that the most distinct facts between Islam and Christianity are those occurrences with weak defence in the Bible.

Islam claimed the resurrection and crucifixion didn't happen, the Bible comes up with this watery defence for resurrection.

The fact that the Bible was written by a set of people years after Jesus was no longer here says a lot. Some of whom didn't even believe in him in his time.
The world of God shouldn't be a biography.

A word of advice, read about Jesus as believed in Islam, from the Quran (translations in English are readily available), map out the differences then check out the defence for the occurrences in the Bible.

Atheists are not worth any mention. Most of them are just lazy christians who dint know dat christianity witout power is just grammer.

Ppl are not waiting to know or hear abt hw christ died or resurrected. They are waiting to see power!!

Witout judgemental mindset in ds present modern age then u ar likely to end up as an atheist.

4everGod1:
Somebody said his name is OLUWASEUN case closed! Hehehehe
B

Indeed its case closed. I guess his parents messed up somewhere in his upbringing or they were even the reason why he became an atheist when they messed up.

OLUWASEUN means MY GOD I THANK OR I AM GRATEFUL TO YOU MY GOD OR GOD HAS DONE ME WELL

Seun prove to us that OLUWASEUN means something else.

Or were your parents Sango worshippers or Atheists too?

If you can disprove the origin and meaning of your name here and now, I will become an Atheist just like you. That is a promise.


Cc winner01
Kingebukasblog

I suggest I name change too bro

KingEbukaNaija:


I suggest I name change too bro

Yes! He cannot be termed a proud Atheist if even his name is in contradiction.

4everGod1:



Yes! He cannot be termed a proud Atheist if even his name is in contradiction.

Exactly ! His name appreciates God and his goodness and he is claiming to be an atheist . . Nigerians sha

Seun:


I was an atheist for years before I started Nairaland. I acknowledge the grace of the real people (not gods) who helped me and keep helping me. I stand on the shoulders of many wonderful people. We all do.

LFC Lawhat? Testimowhat? Bro, I don't think Jesus ever asked anyone to lie for him.


No pestilence has struck down Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and the many other successful unbelievers in the world, so don't hold your breath. The closest thing to a pestilence in my life actually started when I was a very sincere and devout Christian.

I'm pleased that nobody has disputed my actual arguments. I guess I am right.

I have always known you are an atheist right from when I joined NL....Most nairalanders mistake you to be a christian....ain't their fault though, it takes a skeptic to know a skeptic...... I actually love what you are doing on here right now....I personally use biblical points to proof to people why I don't believe in Christianity anymore...I had a similar thread like this back then during my NYSC days when I was yearning and seeking for the truth until I found out what religion really was..... Name of thread : ' if I was god' ......you can check it out....I actually stopped updating it and stopped religious arguments on here cos I realised I needed to face money and make it just like you before branching into religion and activism....And really, it has been paying off(the business forum really helped me)....Been a while I came up on NL, now, I would come up here everyday to always stay entertained and drop my points...please endeavour to mention me anytime you come up with such debates...Aside these religious debates, we have got some real businesses to discuss. I don't know if you reply to your mails or how best I can connect to you....Gracias....!!!!

byteHead:


Religious people.....when it is obvious that the truth contradicts your personal beliefs, you call it illogical and not sensible...

In this age of information, ignorance is a choice.

thats tru bro. Watsup?

[b][/b]Ar u dere

I never thought that I would see Seun post this kind of thing on this forum. Seun, the truth of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is staring you in the face and you refuse to acknowledge it?! Oh my God!

Hayfeez:
Argue from today till tomorrow, the fact that the most distinct facts between Islam and Christianity are those occurrences with weak defence in the Bible.

Islam claimed the resurrection and crucifixion didn't happen, the Bible comes up with this watery defence for resurrection.

The fact that the Bible was written by a set of people years after Jesus was no longer here says a lot. Some of whom didn't even believe in him in his time.
The world of God shouldn't be a biography.

A word of advice, read about Jesus as believed in Islam, from the Quran (translations in English are readily available), map out the differences then check out the defence for the occurrences in the Bible.

You said that the writers of the Gospel did so several years after Jesus Christ died (and resurrected again) and you made the mistake of referring people to the Quran to read about Jesus Christ just because you're a Muslim. Is it then the Quran that will give an accurate account of Jesus since it was written several centuries after Christ? Mohammed was not even born until several centuries after Christ and the Quran can never give a better account of Christ than those who ate and dined with him

Seun, you said no one has refuted your claims. Read this with an open mind http://www.bible.ca/d-resurrection-evidence-Josh-McDowell.htm

Seun, I understand that you may have gone through some things that made you not to want to believe in God any longer. What many of us do sometimes when things we expect don't happen is that we are fast to blame God. I used to do that before but I realized God is never to blame and I stopped doing so. Jesus will reveal Himself to you again. Even if I don't say it, it will happen. Just remember, you once believed and you can believe again. Just have an open mind when He comes back to do so. Jesus loves you even in your current unbelief.

chillykelly86:
Seun please think on point 3 ...

this is my problem with such arguments! he handpicks replies based on what he can defend. let him give us his atheist belief on what happenedZ

Harvard13:
You didnt tell us what in your opinion happened to Christs body or do u bliv it was stolen from a tomb guarded by roman soldiers.

Only Matthew reports the presence of Roman soldiers at the tomb, despite it being.a big deal. This suggests that Matthew's writer may have fabricated it to support the notion that the body could not have been stolen. Mark contradicts Matthew directly because it says that the women asked themselves who would open the tomb. If they knew that there were soldiers there, they would not have had that discussion. Even Matthew gives the disciples a day to steal the body without being stopped by Roman soldiers. And the disciples could still have stolen the body by just bribing the Roman soldiers if indeed the soldiers were there.