Sorry to digress, but mazaje. . .

Your argument makes sense.   I read your other thread about why you left christianity, your concerns appear genuine to me, though I think your reasons for deciding to disbelieve in the existence of God are not good enough.

Concerning your posts here, I want to believe you are a rational thinker (or freethinker, as most atheists like to put it).  So, I'll like to know. . . have you ever thought of it from this angle, that Science only explains the effect of things that were caused by the supernatural, and only gives empirical evidence of the cause as seen by we mortal beings?   Now, this not about the God of the bible or koran, since it appears you have a big problem with both of them.  It's about the existence of some Supernatural Cause/Supreme Being, and for the sake of this argument, let's call that - God.

Simple!

Purist:

Sorry to digress, but mazaje. . .

Your argument makes sense. I read your other thread about why you left christianity, your concerns appear genuine to me, though I think your reasons for deciding to disbelieve in the existence of God are not good enough.

Concerning your posts here, I want to believe you are a rational thinker (or freethinker, as most atheists like to put it). So, I'll like to know. . . have you ever thought of it from this angle, that Science only explains the effect of things that were caused by the supernatural, and only gives empirical evidence of the cause as seen by we mortal beings? Now, this not about the God of the bible or koran, since it appears you have a big problem with both of them. It's about the existence of some Supernatural Cause/Supreme Being, and for the sake of this argument, let's call that - God.

@Mazaje, eagerly waiting for your response to the highlighted portion in the post above

Purist:

Sorry to digress, but mazaje. . .

Your argument makes sense.   I read your other thread about why you left christianity, your concerns appear genuine to me, though I think your reasons for deciding to disbelieve in the existence of God are not good enough.

The ONLY evidence for the existence of any god that I have been provided with are religious scriptures. . .Christians say that if you want to know who their god is, hear his voice, know his heart then read the bible. . . Same with moslems. . .That is the only evidence they have to show for the existence of their various gods. . .If the bible can be shown to be wrong(which it has) with regards to history, science, morals, and things that can be verifiable then why believe in when it comes to things that you can not verify like life after death and some of its claims of a mythical figure loving you. . . If the koran can(Which it has) be shown to be false with regards to history, moral, science etc why then believe it when it comes o thing that ou also can not verify like people being slaves of a mythical being, heaven, hell etc?. . . .

Concerning your posts here, I want to believe you are a rational thinker (or freethinker, as most atheists like to put it).  So, I'll like to know. . . have you ever thought of it from this angle, that Science only explains the effect of things that were caused by the supernatural, and only gives empirical evidence of the cause as seen by we mortal beings?   Now, this not about the God of the bible or koran, since it appears you have a big problem with both of them.  It's about the existence of some Supernatural Cause/Supreme Being, and for the sake of this argument, let's call that - God.

What exactly is the supernatural? invoking god and saying god did it has NEVER and will never help mankind solve any of his problem. . . . What really is the supernatural?. . . .Disease, hurricanes, earthquakes, mudslides were all thought to be supernatural events. . .Now we know that they are not. . . .diseases are caused by mindless micro organisms. . .hurricanes and earthquakes are also caused by mindless forces of nature. . . .What people have been tagging as the supernatural has being shown to be natural forces. . . .

I am almost certain that UFO's cannot scientifically exist, but life on another planet in one of the zillions of solar systems out there is very probable.

wirinet:

I am almost certain that UFO's cannot scientifically exist, but life on another planet in one of the zillions of solar systems out there is very probable.

But UFOs certainly exist [as in Unidentified Flying Objects] that they exist is not in dispute as there are several authentic and credible sightings. What is in dispute is people's explaination of what they are as in whether they are extra terrestrial in nature or secret man made crafts.

wirinet:

I am almost certain that UFO's cannot scientifically exist, but life on another planet in one of the zillions of solar systems out there is very probable.

This has been my argument all along. . .

mazaje:

The ONLY evidence for the existence of any god that I have been provided with are religious scriptures. . .Christians say that if you want to know who their god is, hear his voice, know his heart then read the bible. . . Same with moslems. . .That is the only evidence they have to show for the existence of their various gods. . .If the bible can be shown to be wrong(which it has) with regards to history, science, morals, and things that can be verifiable then why believe in when it comes to things that you can not verify like life after death and some of its claims of a mythical figure loving you. . . If the koran can(Which it has) be shown to be false with regards to history, moral, science etc why then believe it when it comes o thing that ou also can not verify like people being slaves of a mythical being, heaven, hell etc?. . . .

The evidence for the existience of God is all around us and not necessarily in any religious book

mazaje:

What exactly is the supernatural? invoking god and saying god did it has NEVER and will never help mankind solve any of his problem. . . . What really is the supernatural?. . . .Disease, hurricanes, earthquakes, mudslides were all thought to be supernatural events. . .Now we know that they are not. . . .diseases are caused by mindless micro organisms. . .hurricanes and earthquakes are also caused by mindless forces of nature. . . .What people have been tagging as the supernatural has being shown to be natural forces. . . .

By supernatural in the context used above means creator aka GOD. The fact that ancient men misunderstood a lot of things and there records were based on their understanding does not take away the fact that there is a creator God. I think the problem is that you atheists, Based on your lack of understanding of the scriptures and the perceived inconsistencies within it just jump into the conclusion that there is no GOD. The fact that men have distorted God’s word and message does not take away the fact that there is no GOD. I think men and religion are the problem, I am ashamed to admit that what we practice as Christianity today as little semblance with the Christianity prescribed in the bible and this is becos men have become gods unto them selves and distorted everything which they continue to do till this day. As a Christian I have scrutinized my faith and belief system and I believe I have been able to recognize and understand the truth. But truly it is a personal journey and it would be difficult for me to explain it on this forum but is wrong to assume that there is no God just becos religion as failed you.

If God created Earth then he must have created the Universe.
Why would God create such an endless empty space and have only one little
planet with life on it?
That dosen't make sense to me. I think God may not want us to discover
other forms of life in the universe for some important reason.
God does not tell you the secret of the universe in the bible, does he?

Sara, Bingo! You got something there!

And the reason could be that other civilizations are operating at differnt domensions from the earth, which could be something that would interfere with our spiritual and material development unnecessarily.

Nevertheless if other beings could have discovered the earth, we too can one day discover other worlds.

O, that would be so interesting!

Imagine jetting off for your honeymoon or short vacation in a city in a galaxy 50 billion light years away!

Maybe God wanted us to develop up till the stage we would be able to develop technologies that would enable us to travel to distant planets and discover other intelligent life forms. Have you ever wondered what is responsible for the rapid development in human technology, knowledge and awareness.

, many of the opinions here hv an atom of truth in them,
my own belief is that presently as humans there r so many things we can comprehend, given the perishable nature of our make up, imagine the bible says NO MAN CAN SEE GOD N LIVE!!, but when we die n translate to a higher state or dimension or what ever u may call it, we will b able to see/stand in Gods presence,

i believe we r not alone alone in the universe, n God didnt create such a big empty space 4 nuthin, what do u think we will b doing 4 all eternity in heaven?,

i asked some1 recently, how wud noah/moses/ even apostle peter hv explained a b52/an F22 fighter jet/ even a helicopter had he seen one?

earthrealm:

I asked some1 recently, how wud noah/moses/ even apostle peter hv explained a b52/an F22 fighter jet/ even a helicopter had he seen one?

Now we are talking chariots of the gods i guess. Ezekiel described his as chariots of fire.

[b]What Are They Flying?[/b]The Lord Yhovah of the Old Testament, who became the Lord Jesus of the New Testament, is described as flying in thick clouds, swift clouds, bright clouds, dark clouds, white clouds, low clouds, great clouds, and fiery clouds. There are platforms, vessels, whirling chariots of fire, sky thrones, fiery horses, cherubims, thick darkness, great fire, whirlwinds, fiery wheels, pavilions, dark waters, storms, sky dwellings, rolls, and sanctuaries. Whether, or not, one believes these objects are actually flying vehicles that the God of the Bible lives in, appears with, travels in, and is considered the seat of his power is a matter of opinion. The fact that they do not appear without him or his ambassadors, and that, in most major appearances, he and other beings are clearly described as directly associated with these flying objects, is undeniable.
http://www.bibleufo.com/subjects.htm

How Do These Vehicles Fly?
The fact that the objects described in the Bible are controlled, flying craft, is borne out by the flight characteristics of those objects. In Bible text the objects associated with the Elohiym are shown to exhibit rapid, prolonged flight, they ascend and descend, and they hover for extended periods. If these objects were just ethereal images created by ethereal beings, these flight descriptions would have no relevance. The fact that the authors wrote about the flight routine of these objects is evidence that they have a distinct physical presence.

Flying Vehicles

Clouds
There are 70 verses describing clouds as vehicles
in the Bible

Clouds are the most common descriptions of the flying vehicles of the Elohiym. This is not surprising considering the probable size and density in daylight hours attributed to these objects. The word most often used in the Old Testament for cloud is `anan, pronounced aw-nawn'; a cloud (as covering the sky), i.e. the nimbus or thunder-cloud. The descriptions as a dark cloud, thick cloud, and dark water all allude to a solid object in the sky. Since there were no solid flying objects 2000 to 4000 years ago, and the only things close were thunder or storm clouds, this is a logical relation. For those that may cling to the belief that these are actually clouds, the flight characteristics, glowing at night, and other anomalous behavior, leaves such a narrow view very much in doubt. Perhaps the most important reference to clouds is that Jesus will return with an army in the clouds. If these clouds are not the fluffy kind, but very sophisticated flying craft, as the Bible records, then this would seem to have relevance to properly identifying that army. When Bible text says that Yhovah rides a swift cloud, are we to believe that he is literally sitting atop a cloud speeding through the sky? When the cloud turns to fire at night, are we to accept that it catches on fire, even though clouds can't burn? And when it stays in a stationary position for months, catching fire every night and burning out every morning, are we really talking about a cloud? No, this, or these, are not clouds. They are only named such because no one had ever heard about flying saucers, UFOs, spacecraft or star ships. They didn't even have balloons. The only big things in the sky during that time were clouds, so they called the objects clouds.

Exodus
Splendor Appears In The Craft
16:10 And it came to pass, as Aaron spake unto the whole congregation of the children of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and, behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.
Glory is directly associated with the flying craft. The thundercloud-like object flies into the encampment of the Israelis from the desert.

Moses Entered The Vehicle
24:18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.
Moses goes up to the craft that is covering the mountain and enters it. Though not the only instance of men entering this craft, it is the first, thus lending more credence to the physical aspects of the craft since it will accommodate humans.


http://www.bibleufo.com/clouds1.htm

The "Gods" and the extraterrestrial connections.
Watch these videos in HD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH66LramO8U

the star of bethlehem, ever wondered abt it?, i mean we all know stars cant move, they r fixed in space, so what if that thing wasnt really a star?, the possibilities r endless

The "star of bethlehem" couldn't possibly have been a star. The bible writers described it as that becos that is how it appeared to them. Poser: how does a plane flying at night appear on the ground?

If the star of bethlehem was an alien craft then -

1. Were the 3 wise men only imagining that it was leading them in a particular direction or

2. Was it really leading them in that direction in order to bring them to the baby Jesus, who in such an event would clearly have to have been one of the aliens being born as an earthman. . . o dear! now i suddenly understand! No wonder there was an "immaculate conception"! The aliens must have used IVF technology on Mary while she was sleep!

Damn, why didn't we realize this all this while!

UFO's exist for sure, what else?

@DEEP SIGHT, TRY N SEE THE MOVIE ALIENS VS PREDATOR PART 1

I KNOW ITS A MOVIE, BUT THE concept is similar to what we r talking abt here, how the aliens mesmerisied the early aztecs/mayans, n were worshipped as gods by them!!,

i believe ufos exist, call them what u may, angels/demons/aliens, but i also believe GOD exists!!!, if u read ur bible well, esp job, where there was a meeting in heaven, u will see that there r creatures called sons of GOD, 7 in this case GOD wasnt referring to JESUS, these r heavenly beings, existing far above the human level,
as long as we r in this earthly form.there r vast mysteries that we wont b able 2 comprehend!!, our trying 2 comprehend it in this our mortal bodies with limited intellect wud be like trying 2 explain nuclear fission to MOSES!!,

simply impossicant,

Some UFO occurences in the bible
Zechariah 5:1-2:
1 I looked up again and saw a scroll flying through the air. 2 “What do you see?” the angel asked. “I see a flying scroll,” I replied. “It appears to be about 30 feet long and 15 feet wide.

What kind of flying scroll could have been this big


Acts 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Peter sees a craft descending from the sky.


Acts 10:16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
The craft ascended into the sky.

they found fossils of bacteria on mars a few years ago (in 2002), some ancient civilisatons accpted the idea of aliens including most famously the aztec, mayan and seminoles os mesoamerica. to believe we are alone in the universe is egocentric.
"i truely believe we are the west virgna of the universe" - cant remeber which comic said it but it is so true

S.E.T.I & E.B.E

the star of bethlehem, ever wondered abt it?, i mean  we all know stars  cant move, they r fixed in space, so  what if that thing wasnt really a star?, the possibilities r endless

The chinese astronomers of the time,  around 4bc, recorded a supernova where a star exploded and could be seen in the day and night for weeks before the light dissipated. From Isreal it would have appeared to be above the eastern horizon. This event could explain the guiding star over bethlehem. Most astronomical events were considered to be a sign from god, such as eclipses of the sun and moon where "the day shall be turned to night and the moon shall be turned to blood" etc.

I think that ufos are just that, UNIDENTIFIED flying objects. Just because something is unidentified does not mean that it has to extraterrestrial. Ever wondered why most of these are sighted in the vicinity of secret military bases in the desert where top secret flying objects are tested? There are also a lot of strange atmospheric phenomena which are still just being discovered and understood such as ball lightning and sprites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprites_%28lightning%29

Matthew 10:26:

26 “But don’t be afraid of those who threaten you. For the time is coming when everything that is covered will be revealed, and all that is secret will be made known to all.


The truth would soon be revealed.

lo l what truth?, its easy to quote scriptures

mantraa:

The chinese astronomers of the time, around 4bc, recorded a supernova where a star exploded and could be seen in the day and night for weeks before the light dissipated. From Isreal it would have appeared to be above the eastern horizon. This event could explain the guiding star over bethlehem. Most astronomical events were considered to be a sign from god, such as eclipses of the sun and moon where "the day shall be turned to night and the moon shall be turned to blood" etc.

I think that ufos are just that, UNIDENTIFIED flying objects. Just because something is unidentified does not mean that it has to extraterrestrial. Ever wondered why most of these are sighted in the vicinity of secret military bases in the desert where top secret flying objects are tested? There are also a lot of strange atmospheric phenomena which are still just being discovered and understood such as ball lightning and sprites. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprites_%28lightning%29

The extent these atheists would go to try and dis-credit biblical facts Is there any semblance between your ball lightings and the star of bethlehem

@Deepsight
You seem to have abandoned this thread now, given the correlations we have been able to draw on "UFO's and christian beliefs" i would like to know how the submissions on this thread has altered[if at all ] your perception of the subject matter.

^^^ Well i must say nothing has altered my perceptions, given that i do not describe myself as a christian.

I am definite that there are many many many other worlds of intelligent civilizations within this very universe.

Anything less, would amount to circumscribing the greatness of God.

@deepsight
In the light of the above could you let us know your opinion on the "extra-terrestrial God theory"

See my reply to Jagunlabi in the thread titled "Is God Self Sustaining. . ."